In hindsight, was it really that bad?
BACK TO ZERO
Yeah it was pretty ass. Wasn't even fun to play past chapter 2 since you only need one gun the whole game, the one they give you at the start. Plus utterly shitting on everything MGS2 did so well.
>Pre MGSV
DUDE MOVIE LMAO SHITTY """"GAME""""
>Post MGSV
UNDERRATED MASTERPIECE ONLY PLEBS DISAGREE I ALWAYS LOVED MGS4 I SWEAR
its a fine game sans cutscenes. short, and not a whole lot of substance, but solid nonetheless.
>>331055390
I don't think it was very good. MGS3 steered the series in a bad direction, but as its own game it's good. MGS4 carries on all of MGS3's problems and piles on several more.
It's easier to accept when you understand the context in which it was made.
Kojima did NOT want to make this game, nor did he want to spoonfeed all of the mysteries of the series to its garbage fans. The reason the story went to shit was because he stopped giving a shit about the lore and just shoved as much fanservice and bullshit in as possible to appease the lowest common denominator who shat all over MGS2 even though it is objectively the best in the series.
>>331055794
It's like Oblivion.
>pre skyrim
Dumbed down Morrowind, utter trash.
>post skyrim
Nearly as deep as MW with far better graphics. What a classic.
Peace Walker was way better, took the only improvement that 4 made, the controls, and made a fun and rewarding game.
>>331055390
4, PW and V are pretty bad yes
It become retroactively excellent thanks to MGSV
>>331056032
>It's easier to accept when you understand the context in which it was made.
It's easier to understand, but it doesn't make the game itself any better. That's only an explanation of its problems as a story anyway. It doesn't address the myriad gameplay problems.
>>331056032
>game was bad because the director was mad and just didn't give a shit
haha I guess it's okay in that case
>>331055390
theyre all bad compared to 3 my friend
>>331056102
ive always thought oblivion was a step up from morrowind but nostalgia fags win usually
It might not be a good game by itself, but it is still miles better then MGS V
MGS 3> MGS 2 > MGS> MG 2 > MG >>> MGS 4
>>331057037
Do people only hate MGSV because the story is retarded? I haven't played it yet but I heard the gameplay is amazing so I don't get the hate.
>>331057358
The gameplay is good but it's pointless, so, it's not a valuable factor for a MGS game
By that logic PW is good too
>>331057358
MGS 4's gameplay was good too, the small amounts we got.
MGS V was all fine an dandy until you realised that there are only like 3 things needing to be used and the gameplay is the same thing throughout the entire game.
>>331057484
Peace walker is good though. apart from the boss fights
>>331057197
MGS2 = MG2 > GB > MGS3 > MGS1 > MG = PW > MGS4
Not sure where I'd put MGSV. Probably between MGS1 and MG1.
>>331057358
the story in mgsv isn't retarded. it's fine. it's just that there isn't much of it and it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the lore outside of retconning 1 thing from the MSX games
I always thought the controls were the best of the series.
It made playing MGO2 a joy.
>>331055390
No it was fucking garbage.
People who dislike Mgs4 are complete cunts.
How could you hate the game with the best final boss fight
>>331059507
That boss fight wasn't bad, but it doesn't make up for the rest of the game.
>>331056032
This, definitely.
And this >>331056189
All the smart /v/ posters must come out at night
>People preferring MgsPW over Mgs4
jesus fucking christ /v/ when did you develop such shit taste
I was laughing at how cartoonishly long the cutscenes were I had no idea what was happening in the story.
>>331059507
The game was the sort of awful. It was offensively bad and underwhelming/boring at the same time.
>>331055390
The only people that dislike 4 are the neckbeards on /v/ who pretend to hate it to seem smart
"Muh postmodern MGS2"
MGS2 is a fun game and has a cool ending but it wouldve been an absolutely garbage finale for the series
Inb4 "that's the point"
>>331060289
I don't think either are great, but PW gives the player a lot of stuff to do even if the core sneaking isn't good (though MGS4's core sneaking isn't exactly good either). Motherbase is a little interesting the first time through, at least.
>>331060758
I don't think MGS2 would have been a garbage finale, but either way that doesn't make MGS4 any less shit. Even if you think MGS4 as an idea was justified the game we got is still filled with crap all the way through. Even on its own terms MGS4 is a mess.
>>331059507
That bossfight was shit though. Shit gameplay, shit story, shitty muh feels garbage. I was literally cringing as I played that scene. No idea why people like it so much.
>>331055390
Story wise it was the start of the MGS series being pretty dumb to going full retard.
>>331061539
The start of that was Portable Ops.
I'm playing through MGS 4 right now for the first time and so far I'm really enjoying it. I'm enjoying the story and the gameplay is the best it's ever been in my opinion.
The first two missions are fucking godly. I'll accept that the third mission could be considered an intermission but then the game really loses track and never gets back to that feel of sneaking through an active battlefield.
Don't get me wrong, the fourth and fifth missions are great as well but, as it stands, less than half the game, the first half at that, is the best part and the rest falls flat in comparison.
Still a great game in the series, even if it is lower on the scale.
mgs4 was the reason i bought a ps3. I wasn't disappointed by the game, but apon further play throughs i felt like it needed more complex larger levels.
I realized what was happening to the mgs franchise after ground zero.
Still haven't bought mgsv yet, is the online decent or is it really p2w garbage like i've heard?
i really only want to play because of MGO.
so does ps4 have a better community/more active ?
Kojimbo threw story out the window from 4 onwards
Gameplaywise the games got better with each installment
>>331063389
>Gameplaywise the games got better with each installment
I disagree, anon.
>>331055390
Insane amount of cutscenes and only like 3 of the chapters had actual decent gameplay
I still kinda liked it though.
>>331063492
Yeah I forgot the AIs got super dumb
>>331063389
mgs4 has the most intricate and advanced controls.
This is a fact.
>>331062720
MGO3 is the biggest piece of shit I've played since MGO2
>>331063662
I think the gameplay peaked with MGS2 for the moost part. MGS3 was still a lot of fun, though.
>>331064312
The series gameplay can be divided into 4 desu
>MG1 and 2
the progenitor
>MGS1 and 2
improvement
>3, PO, 4 and PW
improved so hard it's no longer similar to the first two
>GZ and V
improved so hard it's no longer similar to the second two
>>331065315
The series' balancing fell apart from MGS3 onward. The series shifted into prioritizing giving the player options over nearly everything else, and the more open level design fed into this. Ultimately it depends on what you prefer a game to emphasize, but I like MG2-MGS2 (along with Ghost Babel) more than MGS3 and the stuff after it.
>>331055916
>MGS3 steered the series in a bad direction
My what an awful opinion you have there. MGS3 is one of the greatest games of all time you buttplug, and widely considered the best of the MGS series.
>>331066649
It also has pretty shit balancing with zero tension in the sneaking. It's a great game that does a lot of interesting stuff but it influenced the direction of the series for the worse.
>>331057197
>MGS2 = MG2
Stop being such an idiot.
>>331065523
>>331066797
This, MGS lost alot of its soul with Snake Eater, it only got worse from there.
>>331066818
Who are you quoting?
>>331065315
I've only played 3, V and PW
How is MGS1 and 2 so different from 3? I've seen gameplay on Youtube and they seem to be more or less the same
MGO2 was great fun
>>331055643
ONE TO ONE HUNDRED
BACK TO ONE
BACK TO ONE HUNDRED
BACK TO ZERO
TOUCHDOOOOOOWN
The vitriol has faded but it is still game it was back then.
>>331055390
i bought it for 4 dlls and it was a wonderful experience. but i wouldn't pay the 60 dlls back then
>>331067004
Maybe he played the subsistence version which changes to camera to be more modern like MGSV's camera.
Also 1 and 2 don't have the camo system, so that changes playstyle up a lot.
Personally though I'd consider 3 in the same group as MGS1 and MGS2. 2 and 3 are pretty similar aside from camo.
>>331067004
this is why you actually play games
>>331055390
MGS1 was an incredible game, aged very poorly.
MGS2 is underrated, but still not a great game.
MGS3 is the peak of the series. Aged like wine, created so many important elements in game play, and had a fantastic story.
MGS4 was convoluted, too long, and had seriously too many cutscenes. It's a fair complaint. It just wasn't the game we needed.
MGS5 is a different direction. The story is lacking (Venom barely is a character. He's lost all likeableness from 3). You can tell me that's part of the point, and you might be right, but if you make a story without an interesting protagonist, you're writing a bad story.
>>331067196
Oh yeah, I forgot about the fixed camera thing
Is that the only major difference then? Doesn't seem like it's all that much
the boss battles were pretty good, and it had some cool standout moments, and it made raiden cool, even if the edge was a bit too sharp here and there.
Ultimately I enjoyed the game but it wasn't as fulfilling as others in the series
Someone help me understand why people think 3 is so good
I played release order back in 2014, and honestly MGS3 felt like a huge step down from 2 in almost every way except maybe graphics and boss fights
>>331067225
I'm playing through the series chronologically senpai
Right now I'm on V and after I finish that I'll do MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2, MGS4 and then finally MGR
>>331067447
you picked the shittiest order possible, I'm so sorry
MGS4 was my first metal gear solid game. I didn't even bother looking up the previous games. I had zero fucking clue what was going on the entire time. That old man had some brass balls though, that's for damn sure.
>>331067524
>the shittiest order possible
I think that would be something like reverse release order
So how about them Twin Snakes?
>>331067447
>chronologically
>>331067609
It was mine too
Then I played the whole fucking thing and turns out it was the shittiest one
>>331067779
They were born with brain damage.
>>331068607
Brain damages = over the top action cutscenes.
Got it.
>>331066818
What's the issue?
>>331068607
*autism
>>331055390
it was a really long and shitty movie with some gameplay.
It was.
Pretty much everything after Chapter 2 is trash except the Big Boss scene at the end.
Worst game in the series.
3>V=1>2>PW>4
>>331055390
it was my second favorite one :[
peace walker
guns of the patriots
all else
Remind me why they kept doubling over and needing a jab at random moments
MGS4 is basically MGS5 lite. It has ehhhhhh story but pretty good gameplay. Meanwhile, MGS5 has bad story but amazing gameplay.
>>331057358
mgs5 has the best third person controls i've ever experienced. Its a joy to play, ridiculously smooth and responsive.
>>331061153
Why would you even play MGS if that boss fight was too cringey for you though?
>>331069325
I can't stop you from having a bad opinion, but are you at least ashamed of yourself?
>>331055390
The gameplay's good, it's just that there's not enough of it. The story's dumb, but it's got some standout moments.
They could've fucking given Naomi modified FOXDIE instead of radiation cancer that doesn't actually work like cancer, though.
>>331059507
>Play sneaking and shooting game up until final boss battle
>Play Tekken for final battle
This was not good and you are not good for thinking it was good.
>>331069665
i am ashamed but i just really liked sunny so much :'[ that little whistle
>>331057724
I'd put 1 over 3, but that's a decent list
>>331069513
>MGS4 story better than MGSV
>poopman jokes and gay 20- minute battles better than MGSV
That's some incredible shit taste you have there.
>>331069906
Well it's not like MGS4 has much competition given that the actual story in MGSV is so barebones and ends like shit almost intentionally to make you feel bad.
>>331067240
>MGS3 is the peak of the series. Aged like wine, created so many important elements in game play, and had a fantastic story.
god, no
>>331069617
That bossfight and some of the other shit in MGS4 like that Rex vs Ray and everything with Raiden was cringeworthy as fuck because it lowered MGS to the level of a shonen anime.
I was expecting them to start falcon punching each other and teleporting around with Katana's it was that bad.
MGS1, 2 and 3 never had anything near that level of cringe.
Yes.
I replay these games consistently. MGS4 does not hold up.
>>331070203
there is still cringe but its more of an ironic cringe
>>331059507
if you didnt cry ... then you dont know MGS
>>331070086
>the story in V is barebones
Nah, it's just not thrown in your face like in the other games. Fuck you, V also had a lot of emotional moments unlike 4. The Paz scene and final tape, the Shining Lights part, the A Quiet Exit.. It was great. Too subtle for "hardcore" mgs fans tho.
>>331070259
>senile old man fighting another senile old man who is in turn fighting to conceal his erection
>music from better games plays in the background
cry everytiem
Chapter 1 & 2 were fucking great.
What the fuck were they thinking when they made Chapter 3 though? That was the worst part in any MGS game.
>>331070295
Only Paz and the Truth got me.
Shining Lights was also good but with the aftermath already spoiled and the fact that the aftermath left the Truth as the last mission didn't help.
And I couldn't even feel anything at Quiet leaving, and I got her back the hard way. All I could do was laugh hysterically at how fucking contrived every single thing happened to be to force her death. It's almost as forced as Naomi's death.
Yes, MGS4 remains one of the worst in the series.
I don't know if Kojima intended for MGS4 to be some kind of fucking meta-commentary on the shallow and hollow nature of fan-serive and simply "giving people what they want.", because it sure feels like it. MGS4 is fucking nothing but a giant effort ot somehow tie the mess that is the Metal Gear canon together. It has no proper purpose of its own. Endless dumb exposition, poor pacing and the gameplay isn't even that good, it has stupid nanomachine insta-alerts and you can just shoot your way out of any encounter, even more so than in MGSV.
MGS4 is just preaching to the choir, and that's not what MGS is supposed to be about, MGS is supposed to be provacative and groundbreaking, not always succeeding, but atleast fucking trying.
MGS4 is the Twlight Princess of Metal Gear Solid.
>actually listening to these crazy chicks' nonsense instead of putting one in their domes
>>331069901
The only reason I don't is the fact MGS1's second half emphasizes bosses so much it's a bit underwhelming and makes the game feel a little half-baked. It doesn't have time to really explore its own mechanics. I replay MGS1 more often than MGS3, though.
>>331066797
Zero tension in sneaking.
Guessing you play on easy or normal with a radar.
>>331071454
Even on the harder difficulties the game's not very demanding to sneak through thanks to camo and how open everything is. Even if you get caught the game's also a lot more forgiving. MGS2 is a lot more tense. And there's no need to use any kind of radar in Subsistance because of the controllable camera.
Any game is more difficult on the higher difficulty settings. This rarely erases the fundamental aspects of the game's design, though. I usually play on Hard or Very Hard.
>>331070746
it felt like he was just taking the most spiteful path possible. He fucked up both Snake and Raiden's prospects at the end of 2, turned the snake eater support team into the main villains of the entire story and led the game universe into a place where a hero like snake was obsolete.
It went out of its way to shoot down a ton of ideas defined in mgs2, and held on to certain series staples (the item and weapon dropdown menus, the cardboard box) that had no reason to be in the game with how it was designed.
It grabbed some tertiary concepts from mgs3 and made them straightforward and direct, without the softer pacing of the past games, and with no option to play around with your tools. It was a game that was pushing you forward every step of the way and passive-aggressively bringing up more and more characters from the series past so they could die, or betray your expectations of them.
>>331067447
I understand the reasoning behind that but yeah it's gotta go release order. New games reference old ones. Gameplay is going to take a hard downward slide.
>>331067524
I also offer my condolences.
Who here didn't like the octocamo?
>>331071454
>implying that mgs3's radar is anything like the soliton
>implying that the over-the-shoulder camera isn't game-breaking and fucks the pacing up immensely
I've started to develop the notion that the game, and the series, was better before subsistence came out
>>331071774
it was pretty cool visually, but mechanically it could've been done in better ways. I thought playing dead was a much cooler mechanic to use on the battlefield, but if guards so much as brush up against you they instantly notice you're alive.
Yes. But it was still better than 5.
By the end of 3 Kojima had successfully bonded his head with the inside of his sphincter.
>>331071837
I've thought this since 2008. Over the shoulder camera is shit tier.
MGS was always trying to emulate a movie, it made sense to have a "cinematic" camera angle point of view.
>>331071649
So don't use the controllable camera. Game has a setting. Original or subsistence.
Games to easy because I play on easy.
>>331072174
Even without it the game's pretty easy thanks to the camouflage and how open everything is. The camera just made the radar/sensors redundant. MGS3 is pretty boring to sneak through most of the time, anon. Groznyj Grad was good though.
>Cutscene happens in 4.
>"Well I've seen it already, so I'll just skip. Done!"
>Helicopter cutscene happens in 5.
>"Skip! Skip! Skip! Please! PLEASE!"
>"OKAY BOSS!"
>Get dropped 5,000 meters from your objective.
>START MOVIN' FAGGOT!
It wasn't bad at all.
>>331055794
>I ALWAYS LOVED MGS4 I SWEAR
I have though. I started MGS with the Legacy Collection and loved MGS4.
In fact I liked it so much that I took a week to finally pick up Peace Walker because of how much closure I felt from MGS4. I didn't think that the series needed anything else after that.
Lo and behold, I was right. PW was a boring mess and TPP was even worse.
>>331056189
But PW was not fun. It was pitifully easy and the bosses were rocket sponges with no interesting attack patterns.
>>331072845
I liked the idea of being able to take out bosses using stealth or outright attacking the vehicle, but taking out the escorts loses its luster when you're facing the fourth wave.
>>331070746
>It has no proper purpose of its own.
Closure. It was SUPPOSED to be the finale. Like for real this time. Kojima did everything in his power to create a narrative and atmosphere of closure.
Old Snake, as well, is perhaps a proxy for Kojima himself. Snake's mission in the game is to finish what he's started, even though he's too old and tired to be expected to do so.
And MGS4 still managed to tie in political, sociological and technological pondering like MGS is wont to do. The whole "war has changed" thing was precisely that. The concept of the war economy was not just a reasonable evolution of MGS's world post-MGS2, but also an exploration of how that's becoming closer to a reality in our own world (like the Patriots' prediction of free information in 2).
