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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
>Miyamoto: I come up with a logical reason behind everything in my games.
>Miyamoto: I think people think I hate storylines or look down on it. I don't. It's just that a story should never be so forced that it depreciates the immersion between player and game. That interactive element that makes the game system or gameplay.
>Miyamoto: A player should never be expected to solve a puzzle that would not make sense in real life such as saving a cat at the top of a tall steeple; because that brings up the question of how the cat even got up there.
So.....
......what was the story behind this perpetually rotating boulder and that strange sign in Super Mario 64 at the edge of a cliff that tells you to run around it 100 times to see something good?
Artificial Difficulty
>>330623317
the what sign
>>330623925
Wait for a Mario scholar to see this post. I don't think I have it saved.
It's in the level with the fish with shades that kills you in one hit.
>>330623317
Miyamoto says funny things considering how he invented Zelda logic. He's trained an entire generation to do shit like lighting torches to spawn chests
The lore tells all, it is only waiting to be uncovered.
>>330624107
To be fair, that never happens in dungeons. It's always, "kill all enemies in room." Lighting torches only activates other torches far away.
>>330624121
Deep.
>>330624820
>To be fair, that never happens in dungeons. It's always, "kill all enemies in room." Lighting torches only activates other torches far away.
What? What game are you talking about?
>>330625029
Every 3D Zelda. What about you?
>>330625246
lighting torches opens doors and spawns chests in 3D Zeldas.
>>330625246
There's quite a few instances of chests that spawn in dungeons when you light torches in 3D Zelda.
Are you okay anon?
>>330625358
Only in Wind Waker.
In OoT the only one I can think of is the chest behind the waterfall in Zora's Domain as a child.
Miyamoto is a hack.
>>330625554
You had to light torches to get into the shadow temple, retard. It happened constantly in every fucking 3d zelda. Shit, Twilight Princess even brought back the lantern.
>>330625823
No shit Sherlock. How is that spawning a chest?
>>330624820
What? No, that's not the point. The point is that there is no real-life logic to lighting torches as a mechanism to make things happen.
If you played Zelda, you know immeidately that lighting torches in a room will make something important happen. But a person who has never played video games before might not even think to light the torches. It wouldn't be intuitive to them. If they asked you why lighting torches made chests appear or opened doors, what would you tell them?
>>330623317
Source?
>>330623317
>Fairy Village
>Right next to Hyrule Field
>Literally the only thing keeping Kokiri from leaving is a vague threat and some guy who spends 24/7 standing in front of the entrance
>>330626947
How is it a vague threat at all
>>330625931
Literally all of the 3D zelda's beside SS do that.
I can think of a part off the top of my head in MM you have to. Light all the torches in the Swampfall temple room right with all the black poes after the first turtle encounter. Light all the torches. Spawns a fairy chest.
>>330626947
I don't think Kokiri stay because they're threatened, they stay because they like the forest. Deku Tree probably ordered everyone to make link stay.
>>330627180
They "die", not that the Deku Tree would kill them or they need the Forest magic to keep existing or even that the Outside world would wreck their shit. Just "Don;t leave the forest or you're fucking dead,".
>>330623317
>and that strange sign in Super Mario 64 at the edge of a cliff that tells you to run around it 100 times to see something good?
It didn't say that, it just told you to run around it which if you did, you'd find it taught you the mechanic that running around signs makes coins appear.
>>330627180
>>330627378
The Kokiri aren't threatened by the Deku Tree. He loves them and gave them life.
It's the King of Hyrule that keeps them in the forest. That's why the sign next to the guard says "Fairy folk shall not leave these woods."
They're the Green Men of Hyrule.
>1) The Green Men!
>The Children of the Forest made a pact with the First Men, in which the First Men agreed to stop cutting down the weirwood trees that are an important part of the worship of the Old Gods. And the Children were consigned to the forests, while the First Men lived everywhere else.
>To witness this pact, they carved faces into all the trees on this one island, and left the Green Men behind to guard the island—the Green Men had green scaly skin and horns (or possibly just green clothing and horned helmets) and they MAY STILL BE THERE.
Note: I do not condone Song of Fire & Ice or Game of Thrones in any way.
>>330625246
Literally one of the first puzzles in the first dungeon in the first 3D Zelda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwsaBq6xZmQ#t=5m00s
>>330628992
Honestly I think some puzzles in the Great Deku Tree were a bit much for a fist dungeon (like the spider web and carrying the lit Deku Stick up a block to light the ground on fire. That's the kind of stuff that warrants a tutorial. But Aonuma always takes it too far.
>>330629417
Really? People here probaby beat the game when they were tiny retarded children. I think games can trust players to figure some things out.
>that strange sign in Super Mario 64 at the edge of a cliff that tells you to run around it 100 times to see something good?
What, wait? Post a pic. Never heard of this
>>330623317
I agree with him. stories playing a much bigger role than they did in older games is one of vidya's biggest cancers. it sucks. people that play games for stories are asshats, especially when said story exposition gets in the way of gameplay. fuck the rpg genre as a whole, too.
I think you guys are misinterpreting the quote.
He's not saying everything follows real world logic. That would be pointless. He's saying everything follows a logical pattern within the game - killing enemies is your natural reaction to being given enemies to kill, so logically that progresses you through a dungeon by unlocking doors, etc. Switches, torches, and things of that nature that you would assume can be interacted with are also guideposts to progression.
This seems pretty damn obvious now, but coming out of the early vidya generations there were a ton of devs who were just flailing randomly at how "videogame logic" should work. And hell, it's pretty easy to find examples of how much the gameplay can break down when that "logic" fails (Sonic 3 Barrels or that goddamn post in the flashback sequence in AC2)
>>330625554
The first dungeon in OOT has torches you have to light you autist. It happens a lot in the game, even outside of dungeons.
>>330623317
Miramonte was old then and is older now and he is senile and bigoted as fuck and so.oky can't make great games anymore. The time to stop sucking his proverbial penis over everything he designs and says has long since passed. Just take a look at his Star Fox reveal video, everything he says is dribble.
>>330630280
>dribble
Drivel, you autist. And I'm not even gonna touch "Miramonte"
>b-but it's late and I'm on mobile and-
Same here
>>330630117
>autist
Shut your damn mouth you imbecile. To insult a demographic smarter than you is a green flag that tells me you're aware of your lesser intelligence and proud of it. GTFO.
It's funny I was just thinking this
I never played TP in the day and recentlypirated it, so it's a new experience to me. I spent nearly 30 minutes wandering around the starting village trying to do everything I possibly could because they game didn't tell me shit about what to do and it turns out I had to buy the slingshot.
What sense did that make? No one even told me I should buy it, it's just arbitrarily set as the progression marker for absolutely no good reason. Want to proceed in the game? You have to buy the slingshot and no one even tells you to.
Fucking stupid, I hate shit like this. What a hypocritical douche bag
>>330630679
>no one even tells you to
Pretty sure the kids are super hyped and won't shut up about it.
Can't really fault you for ignoring the kids though, they're little shits.
>>330629417
That puzzle is genius and is the first indication that OoT is a step above the rest. Observe this pasta,
It challenges the player in a way I haven’t seen many games do before. Keep in mind what I’m referencing here is only what I have observed myself, but I have seen a number of people play through the beginning of OOT and I think I’ve seen enough to draw some conclusions about how this area works.
First of all, nearly every first-time player falls at least once when they are climbing the spiral ramp in the deku tree. This section of the game establishes that fall damage is a thing.
You get the slingshot, do some puzzles, yadda yadda blah blah. But you can only progress to a certain point going up. The way the ledges at the top of the ramp lead out naturally draws the player out towards the center of the room, where the camera changes its position and shows that there is something beneath the spiderweb far below. Note that the way the camera shifts emphasizes how far away you are from the ground, emphasizing the danger of falling off and hinting to players who haven’t fallen off ledges that fall damage exists in this game. Do you risk the damage and jump? The cautious players I’ve seen often look for something they may have missed, some alternate route that does not require them to take the risk. Other players just jump off intuitively. One thing is true of players who play through the game for the first time – you must throw caution to the wind to continue.
dmittedly this doesn’t work if you’re thinking “lol it’s just a game whatever”, but I’m assuming a certain level of immersion here. I’m also assuming you don’t just look up a guide, which the majority of players didn’t have immediate free access to when this game came out.
cont. on /vr/.https://desustorage.org/vr/thread/2905127/#2908734
(Not by me)
>>330630841
Not only did the kids want you to get it, but the endgoal of everything up till that point (the hawk, fishing rod, and cat) was accessing the shop. Pretty simple to put two and two together
>>330623317
>>330624060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qFWMRoWQj4
>>330630906
Neat.
>>330630679
>What sense did that make? No one even told me I should buy it, it's just arbitrarily set as the progression marker for absolutely no good reason. Want to proceed in the game? You have to buy the slingshot and no one even tells you to.
I dislike you. Games are handholdy enough as it is.
>>330630969
>but the endgoal of everything up till that point (the hawk, fishing rod, and cat) was accessing the shop
I didn't even get that though. I got the basket first and when I was rewarded the rod I was like well OK sure, so after I wandered around a bit I decided I may as well try to use it. Then the cat darted off with my fish. Looking at a guide right now and apparently all of this was necessary to access the shop, but I didn't even know the shop was locked. I just followed the cat in there.
And the kids didn't "want you to get it", they were just talking about a fucking slingshot and being poor. I did not interpret this as a quest, and certainly not a main line mission.
>>330630532
Holy shit, that damage control kicked in full power
>>330631297
On any other day I'd agree 100%, but this was obtuse as fuck. It made no logical sense.
>>330630679
>pirated game
>can't figure out how to play the most basic part of it because of psychiacric distress.
Proof that the law of karma can't be mocked.
Know ye not son, that that which is not truly yours cannot be retained? For that which is done for the sake of self-aggrandizement, the glorification of the flesh; the product of may produce the result desired but the ends of that are not well.
>>330631525
*unzips fedora*
>>330631347
By contrast, the old man whines about wanting bee larva and you can't even give him some, all you can do is eat it front of him and make him whine some more. I thought the game was fucking broken.
