Is there a game that handles character development through gameplay better than TLOU? Shit before this it was all shallow shit like "oh X can beat Vile now" or "I beat Dark Souls" or some dumb RPG stat shit.
>>329755273
>handles character development through gameplay
eeeh not really. I love the last of us but character development mainly happens through cut-scenes in that game.
As for your question though...
Maybe a tale of two sons? Journey? I'm not sure.
>>329755273
>through gameplay
TLOU does not do this
>>329757671
>>329757713
>character development happens through cut-scenes
But they don't though. They are usually culminations of the character development. The various things you do as Ellie during Winter's a good example, initially starting off with downing Rabbits and Deer to meeting the guy to working together to getting captured/ESCAPING to finally beating the closest thing to a boss in the game. Ellie doesn't magically in cutscenes become so attached to Joel that she pulls in the first part of Fall; that's all a result of what you do together through the game.
Your two examples are good though.
>>329757876
Oh shit how the fuck can I forget this?
>Acting like characters talking while you fetch ladders and traverse rivers is revolutionary
I really hate /v/. How you completely fail to understand any real subtext in any video games. How you take something profound that looks into human nature and completely turn it around to fit some myopic narrative made to comfort yourself about your own place of superiority in the world.
This place is vile, holy fucking shit. The level of caustic nihilistic sarcasm around here is fucking deadly. You are all dying. Your ability to be human is being killed by this place.
I'm fucking done. Enjoy your sad ironic lives.
>>329758662
That's not revolutionary. Taking the experience as a whole to drive the changes in who the characters are and what they become is revolutionary.
>>329758848
If you take /v/ seriously enough to be offended by it you shouldn't be here. Everybody with a brain who uses /v/ knows it's dogshit but comes here for the memes and the funposting.
>>329755273
>>329757671
A lot of the character development is very subtle in the game and most is through cutscenes apart from the optional conversations. Its pretty obvious by the end Joel is scared of getting attached to ellie for fear of losing someone who reminds him of his daughter and who he grows to love as a daughter, also obvious elle acts tough because anyone she ever loved left her one way or another.
But its subtle they never have conversations about these feelings. Well done on naughty dogs part, and both actors
>>329758848
What did we do? I'm confused.
I really like Last of Us by the way.
>>329758848
Sorry, I was too busy being pissed off at being forced to walk through an area while characters talk so the devs can avoid throwing in yet another cutscene to care about the oh-so-deep subtext of this videogame.
Can't forget the plethora of ladders and the "Ellie still can't fucking swim yet" sections, as well.
>>329758961
Hahahaha you sound like a fucking marketer, please step back for a moment and assess yourself.
Is Todd with ND now?
>>329758326
>Ellie doesn't magically in cutscenes become so attached to Joel that she pulls in the first part of Fall; that's all a result of what you do together through the game.
nah, i'd say it's pretty much just cutscenes and dialogue
im not even saying it was bad characterization, just that the gameplay didn't have a lot to do with it
the poster child of character relationships reflected in gameplay is ICO, and even something like RE4 handles it better than TLOU because i, as the player, actually have to give a shit about ashley and feel responsible for her safety, unlike ellie, who is invincible
tl;dr "characterization through gameplay" is reflected in mechanics, not dialogue
>>329759790
>can't come up with a legitimate response
>uses generic le shill meme
>>329758848
is this an old one or something new?
>>329755273
Alpha Protocol
>>329759863
You can still have good character relationships if the other person is technically unkillable though this wouldn't be the first time. The context behind every action in TLOU is to get the Ellie character to a certain destination. Most of the "ladder simulator" type stuff you do is for Ellie actually as she can't make a lot of jumps nor has the ability to swim.
And again, the best of the characterization through gameplay wasn't even with someone else next to who the player was controlling. Ellie goes through so much in Winter that she's completely different from when you start the chapter. This is often why everyone says it's the best part of the game.
>>329759878
He's kinda right though. That does sound like the sort of empty meaningless statement a marketing exec would throw out when trying to shill his product.
>>329757876
Spec ops probably takes the cake.
Walker starts out as proper solider and ends up being a rambling mad man by the end and you see it whenever he is loading, giving orders, and killing soldiers as the more you advance the story the more violent his sentences become in combat.
>>329759757
If you know modern vidyas those slow movement sections and long ladders are actually loading sequences.
Think of tomb raider reboot going through small cracks slowly to get into a tomb, God of war, running down a circle staircase or elevator, and even the classic mgs3 ladder sequence, all loading screens for the next sections.
Better than the old days of putting in disc 2 or fade to black watching loading screens
>>329755273
Her reactions to you blowing people/zombies up were priceless.
>>329760276
>You can still have good character relationships if the other person is technically unkillable though this wouldn't be the first time.
i'm not disputing that, it's just not reflected in gameplay even if that is the case
almost everything you bring up is story-based contextualization and has nothing to do with gameplay
it doesnt really take a lot, even something like a few player-driven choices spread throughout the plot dictating how ellie feels about you (even telltale style where it doesn't affect anything in the long run) would be SOMETHING in gameplay relating to characterization
TLOU's characterization is tied to its story, which is really just the typical window dressing for a "kill a bunch of dudes and monsters" plot
>>329760369
I dunno, if every single walking sequence or ladder sequence is a stealth loading screen, I think I would've preferred a loading screen or a cutscene. That's how annoying I found them.
I wouldn't have minded so much if there was a bit of variety. Compare the see-saw physics "puzzles" in Half-Life 2, they were annoying, but in the end you were playing see-saw with an entire bridge, little differences like that stopped me from hating it. In TLOU, its just ladder after ladder after palette after ladder.
>>329755273
Like other anons said here, Spec Ops the Line, and although I despise Brothers a tale of two Sons, it did narrative through gameplay quite well, don't think there is many games that actually do this.
>>329760957
See that's the thing. That context goes into gameplay, too. You're right the characterization ties to the story, which ties to the gameplay.
You don't even need telltale style choices for this either in fact those would only make the character arcs done in TLOU style worse.
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kfeMhS7.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>329755273
>oh X can beat Vile now
???
>>329755273
>Is there a game that handles character development through gameplay better than TLOU?
One of the main criticisms of TLoU is that there's a pretty big disconnect between character development, narrative development, twists, etc., and the actual gameplay. Pretty much all of the story is told through cutscenes. Or dialogue during gameplay, which basically just happens without any real control from the player.
But then No More Heroes 1 kinda did the same thing and that's one of my favorite games ever so...
>>329761459
>You're right the characterization ties to the story, which ties to the gameplay.
but this is true of every game with a story that isn't completely disconnected from its gameplay
>bragging about watching this interactive movie is better than when people used to brag about beating games!
sonyggers are the worst thing that ever happened to gaming
>>329761785
>One of the main criticisms of TLoU is that there's a pretty big disconnect between character development, narrative development, twists, etc., and the actual gameplay
Literally what? If there's one thing it gets right it's that. Do tell where people say this. The whole entire point of the part that goes from the beginning of the post-apocalypse till finding Ellie shows that what consists of gameplay in the game is shit Joel has to do and has been doing.
>>329761872
But they don't as a result connect the characterization to gameplay. This game does.
>>329762219
>Literally what? If there's one thing it gets right it's that. Do tell where people say this. The whole entire point of the part that goes from the beginning of the post-apocalypse till finding Ellie shows that what consists of gameplay in the game is shit Joel has to do and has been doing.
In that area, there's no real disconnect between the story and the gameplay.
BUT, the story itself is still told mostly through cutscenes.
If we're talking character development through gameplay, then TLoU fails, since for most of the game, it's the same action-stealth survival game.
>>329762219
>But they don't as a result connect the characterization to gameplay. This game does.
[citation needed]
>>329762651
>it's the same action-stealth SURVIVAL game.
Survival being the important word here. The game's actions are contextualized with the idea that you're going together with another person to ensure that person's survival. It's what's set up with the intro part, it's what's implied throughout, it's what causes Joel to make the endgame decisions he does. If Joel didn't spend all that time ensuring Ellie's safety they couldn't have possibly gotten closer relationship wise to what she pulls in Fall. Exception to this is Winter where you play just as Ellie who learns or at least tries to do things on her own and character grow happens exclusively to Ellie.
>>329763046
>you're going together with another person to ensure that person's survival.
this is not at all reflected in gameplay mechanics, since all you do is kill a bunch of dudes while the person you're protecting(?) is invincible
>>329763307
Collecting random shit in a world that goes by survival of the fittest? I already talked about the whole invincible thing before in the thread. It may have been a good thing considering the game it apes most from, RE4 often had peeps who found Ashley annoying and also because TLOU has much more complex mechanics than a game like RE4.
>>329758848
See you tomorrow
>>329763046
>The game's actions are contextualized with the idea that you're going together with another person to ensure that person's survival.
But there basically are almost no survival elements relating to Ellie. Ellie basically handles herself and like >>329759863 said.
I liked Ellie a lot, don't get me wrong. I liked TLoU a lot too. I liked the game, I liked the characters, the narrative itself despite its issues, and in no way did I think it was a BAD game. But I didn't think its reputation as the end-all, be-all of video game storytelling was deserved, because honestly, it didn't even really DO much with the medium itself. It's entirely non-interactive, and unlike something like MGS2 or NMH1 actually despite what I said earlier, there's no real point to that either. Those games have linear, predetermined plot elements for a reason. They're there to pull punches on the player, unexpected twists that shock the player and provide direct commentary on the medium itself. TLoU doesn't really do anything like that.
Despite defending the game often, I can *kinda* see how people might consider it an interactive movie game. There's more to it than that and it's definitely hyperbole, but it's definitely a game where the developers sat down and decided that a lot of its plot elements were going to be developed more so through cutscenes and dialogue and only through gameplay in a few ways.
>>329763468
>It may have been a good thing considering the game it apes most from, RE4 often had peeps who found Ashley annoying
Actually most people agree that game did escort missions and NPC AI right because Ashley is remarkably more intelligent than most NPCs you have to escort.
>and also because TLOU has much more complex mechanics than a game like RE4.
Meh...I don't know about that. RE4 is definitely the deeper game, to the point where you can replay that game infinitely as much as you want and it can be a different experience every time.
TLoU isn't wholly different in that regard, but compared to RE4, it's remarkably simplistic. It's the sort of game where every mechanic really isn't all that deep, but it all comes together in a way that makes the experience seem full. Helps that it's polished a lot too.
>>329763668
>They're there to pull punches on the player, unexpected twists that shock the player and provide direct commentary on the medium itself. TLoU doesn't really do anything like that.
TLOU also has predetermined plot points not for some metacommentary shit because the game was very obviously trying to show a certain experience with a certain character arc for each character. It went MUCH further than MGS2 in storytelling through gameplay because survival is such an important part of the setting and what the characters have to do everyday. MGS2 didn't start pulling similar stuff till the end.
>Ellie basically handles herself
Ellie doesn't start handling herself until Winter, which is again part of her arc. Ellie also can't swim, nor can she go through all the situations the game lays out that are "puzzle"esque.
>interactive movie game
That's what it is. Not a movie game like MGS where it's fuck ton of cutscenes telling everything. But a more interactive one that has one preset character arc based story that the game's trying to tell.
>>329763934
RE4: aim, shoot, puzzles, weapon/item upgrades, QTEs
TLOU, aim, shoot, stealth, weapon/item upgrades/crafting, puzzles/ladder simulating, character upgrades, more dynamic movement system which involves moving differently at different times, more fleshed out melee combat, etc.
RE4 is the better game I won't even disagree, but it's not because of deep mechanics, it's because the level design and encounter design still hold up and those things not even its successors got right. But TLOU obviously has so many more gameplay systems thus more gameplay mechanics to deal with.
>>329755273
>handles character development through gameplay
Can anyone simplify with this actually means to a simpleton like myself? The stuff posted in this thread has to be the most pretentious bullshit I've heard in some time.
>>329755273
Reminder that TLOU is the best online shooter of last gen.
Also, reminder that TLOU may very well have some of the satisfying bow combat in modern gaming.
>>329755273
>Is there a game that handles character development through gameplay better than TLOU?
>the game with literal lesbian pedophile pandering DLC
>>329767350
some of the most*
>>329767350
reminder that sonycucks are delusional weeb pedos
>>329767350
>pay2win
>best online shooter
>>329767636
>pay2win
Kek, the semi-auto rifle from base game is still largely regarded as the best weapon in the entire mode. The DLC just adds flavor.
>>329761948
fucking based anon man.. so true... fuckin sickens me.
2016
>interactive movies praised more than games with actual gameplay
