Was he a good villain?
Acceptable
>>329538716
No.
>>329538716
Until he took the mask off. Then he was just retarded
sometimes the villains should just never be de-masked
>>329538716
Eh, I'd give him an 8.8/10
>>329540675
This
>>329540635
>>329540675
I felt the same with Cia.
>>329538716
he deserved more than being a retread boss fight. I get that they were trying to play the angle of him being insane and slightly childish, maybe in contrast to his serious and dominant earlier portrayal, but there were a million better ways to make that work. Everything from his design to his battle to his reveal just took away all notions of him being a threat.
He was a decent villain when he overtook zelda's castle, he was a great villain when he threw midna into the light god and nearly killed her. Everything after that was pretty shit, though
He was entertaining. That's good in my book
>>329538716
Right up until you fight him
>>329538716
>Boss fight is braindead easy at pretty much every stage
>Suddenly the last one where he goes batshit crazy with the swords
>Blink and be down three hearts
>Be boring, silent, generic evildoer with no motivation but a moderately decent design
>FUCK YES YOU ARE THE BEST VILLAIN EVER
It's fucking Darth Maul
Zant was a great villain with a subplot that most people apparently don't even notice.
All of the cool, menacing shit he did? Did it under the possession of Ganondorf. His facade doesn't fall away until "his god" has been revived and no longer possesses his body.
It makes perfect sense when you consider that everything about Zant's behavior and presentation before the reveal is just Ganondorf with a new set of paint, right down to crudely mimicking his voice.
>>329540784
Cia wasn't a villian, she just wanted Link to fuck her brains out.
>>329538716
Yes
>>329538716
Fuck No
>3 scenes
>Turns out to be Ganon's sockpuppet
>Dies to Fused Shadows because it turned out that Ganon's magic was stronger than the interlopers
Zany I think was fine.
What was poor was the Gannondorf reveal. It was kind of out of the blue, if they'd hinted that Gannondorf was the puppet master I think it would have improved both of them.
After all, Gannondorf was a literal puppet master in WW so using that plot point again would have been fun. All in all Zant is cool. You see him and he comes off as a badass, then you learn he's just a spoiled brat that made a deal with the devil. Fits his character quite well.
I thought he was pretty fucking creepy at first. Then he became a pussy.
Before he took off the mask, he was basically a smaller, skinnier Ganondorf. After he took off the mask, he was just a joke.
>>329544884
>if they'd hinted that Gannondorf was the puppet master I think it would have improved both of them.
...They do. Pretty blatantly, in fact.
Early on, Midna says its weird that he became so powerful suddenly, then later Zant explicitly mentions his "god" gave him power, and then one dungeon later, there's a cutscene revealing that Ganondorf was thrown into the Twilight Realm, where they assume Zant must have met him.
>>329544884
Fuck you cunt, why is Ganondorf any different from "literally does nothing" Zelda and even Link who's basically just Midna's arms and legs.
TP is about Midna and her sidekick, Link. Everyone else is cast aside.
>>329540741
His face genuinely upsets me
>>329544884
>if they'd hinted that Gannondorf was the puppet master I think it would have improved both of them.
Zant literally says in one of his early lines that he got his Powers from GOd. Later on we see Ganondorf as a YHWH-like figure when he's talking Zant for the first time.
Just because they actually foreshadowed it doesn't mean the plot wasn't obviously thrown together last minute. Like we don't even know why Zelda suddenly has a body again.
>>329545251
Gannondorf being fucking "GOD" was retarded as fuck.
>>329545251
>Like we don't even know why Zelda suddenly has a body again.
There's a strong implication that the only thing that protected Zelda from Zanondorf until then was the Triforce of Wisdom, and without it, they were free to spirit her powerless body away.
Yeah, he was great. What sucked was that he wasn't given the Final Boss spot and his boss fight, although fun, was underwhelming and then he's just straight up shoved aside for the sake of Ganondorf.
Up until he turned out to be a manchild, yes.
Really though, I can't understand why they decided to make him just spaz out when he never once broke his demeanor once before.
Zant was great, but the only reason people were "upset" about Ganondorf was because someone on the internet told them to be.
>>329549320
Well to be fair, it was pretty lame how Zant's character is seemingly destroyed as though the writer's were like "Shit, we need make sure he doesn't stack up to Ganon!"
Fact is, it was pretty lame that Zant didn't get a more dignified conclusion
>>329544568
>he was a great villain
>he was Ganondorf when he did anything cool
>>329550470
Except his last appearance as the vision that Ganondorf sees before he kicks it was pretty cool.
>>329550470
Zant got exactly the conclusion he deserved.
I loved him, 4channers are just edgelords who cannot stand the irony in his character
He also is the funniest to play as in Hyrule Warriors
>>329550663
Those statements aren't mutually exclusive or anything.
He was a faggot.
>>329550764
You're accusing people of lacking a sense of subtlety when the fact that everyone in here is saying that the irony wasn't subtle enough goes right over your stupid, underaged head.
You're like those retards who defend Kylo Ren because, "BEING SHIT IS THE POINT OF HIS CHARACTER." when that's irrelevant to whether the character was presented well or not.
>>329550754
>disappears after you beat him
>snaps his own neck at the end of the game at the right moment
>not even with his hands, just the inertia of moving his head
Nah, I always felt that was shitty and could've been done better
>>329550950
Kylo is just hilaripous because it takes Rey pulling force powers out her ass to make him break down. It's even sadder when his father talks to him and he acts like a teenager with a drug addiction.
>>329550950
I'm not accusing anyone of lacking sense of subtlety, in fact, your problem is you want anything subtle while some thing just have a bigger impact if they're shown right away
he was a shitty OoT ganondorf who never managed to do anything impactful
OoT ganondorf took over the world for 7 years, razed the castle town, committed two acts of genocide, had his minions kill off a lot of links friends(the sages), and it all ended with one of the most memorable final bosses in gaming.
zant just acted like a generic villain whos deeds went unnoticed until you fight him and he throws a temper tantrum like a little bitch. all he did was put a fog of twilight over some locations and nothing else. it didnt even have any lasting effects, fuck most people in the game didnt even have a problem while in it, like castle town.
>>329550698
Still doesn't really justify himself acting like a kid throwing a tantrum.
>>329550754
His metaphorical "death" was just weird.
>>329550764
What irony? If you mean him really being childish, while that may be ironic as a twist to his demeanor, it's still a pretty weak twist because it was never at least hinted at beforehand.
>>329540741
I actually had to suppress a laugh in an IMAX theater. How they thought Elliot Rodgers made an intimidating Dark Jedi amuses me.
>>329551405
He's not childish
He went insane
This is not a case of "Character had actually a different personality": his serious tone is standard him, but he goes insane when shit he cannot control happens
It's a reverse of the "Funny guy goes berserk and gets super smart and cold" trope
>>329551515
Except he is childish. He's literally shown beating the ground and howling like a kid not getting their way in the flashback to when he met Ganon.
>>329551308
>>329551405
You're acting as if a calm, calculating villain going fucking mental when his plans fail is some new thing that Twilight Princess introduced.
>>329540741
I told my friends "Put the Mask back on,". They thought I was joking.
I wish I was.
>>329551489
Disney casting.
It really comes off as one of those stupid Disney or Nickelodeon sitcoms where all the main roles are played by children and all the adults in the world are kind of retarded secondary characters.
They do this so they can potentially milk the actors for a longer time as they get older.
>>329551664
Not really, no I'm not. I'm just saying his blow up wasn't really a good twist for his character. Only further worsened by the lackluster fight.
>>329551601
He went crazy because they dethroned him
>>329551931
Nobody dethroned him. He felt "passed over" even though he was always just lower class compared to Midna, whose family has always been in rule since the exile of the Twili race.
>>329551601
As stupid as it is, at least Hyrule Total War's excuse made sense (He was the rightful ruler by blood but Midna was picked just to spite him).
Of course I don't want to go any further than that because it's fucking retarded.
>>329551931
They didn't put him on the throne in the first place specifically because he was fucking nuts.
Their decision is immediately justified considering his reaction is to run outside, beat his head against the floor, and betray their entire culture to a crazy floating ball of evil fire.
>>329552026
It would have been fine if he had started to lose his marble as the fight progressed. But it was just so startling how in his previous scenes he's calm and collected and in control, then in the pre-boss scene, he just flips out even though he's still got some control of the situation.
>there will NEVER EVER be a Zelda where Ganondorf continually tries to stop you throughout the game
>there will never be a Zelda game in which he is written better than "big bad guy at the end"
Ghirahim was a step in the right direction. I don't think he should have been used as a dungeon boss twice, but I did enjoy fighting him multiple times as you both got stronger. It was a great concept for the series and I hope they do it again, minus the taking away a dungeon boss slot.
>>329552126
The fact that Link and Midna managed to reach him at all meant that he was clearly not in control of the situation by that point.
>>329552134
I think they used him just right. The real downside was how we didn't get to at least see some interaction with him and Demise, only made worse by how Demise bitches out about 5-10 minutes later after being hyped as the literal incarnation of Hyrule's evil
>>329552246
He still had Ganon being revived, that's a measure of control. If he had totally lost, he wouldn't have accomplished anything by fighting.
Zant was fucking boring until he went butthurt manchild on you.
>>329552134
>there will NEVER EVER be a Zelda where Ganondorf continually tries to stop you throughout the game
because thats stupid story telling. ganondorf is THE big bad. how would they handle that? you beat him and he runs away every time? that just makes him out to be a bitch. or he just over powers link and just decides to let him live for some stupid reason. i cant see how that would work at all. OoT did it right with giving him presence without having to resort to having him fight link directly
>>329538716
>implying he was the villain
He was just pawn of the real villain, Ganondorf.
>>329552134
They should do it how SS did it, have a "lieutenant" character who fights you a few times throughout the game but who isn't the big bad. Fighting the main bad guy any time before the end makes him much less imposing.
>>329552134
TP has a decent excuse in that Ganondorf literally does not give a single shit about you by the time he's revived. As far as he knows, the Triforce of Power makes him totally invincible, because he never suffered the overwhelming defeat he got in the adult timeline.
From his perspective, Link is just some random bumblefuck hick that Midna found.
>>329540635
>>329540741
>>329540675
>implying he wasn't a generic ganon clone before he had the mask
>>329552670
>Ganondorf literally does not give a single shit about you
thats antoher problem with the game
ganondorf hated links guts, he cursed him with his last breath in the real world at the end of oot, and this dude looking exactly like link shows up and he just could not give less of a shit about him. no reaction or anything. what the fuck
>>329552592
Depends. If they can find a good reason for the villain to not be trashing the heroes it can work. Problem is, it's usually one of two things; villain is just cocky and taking the situation seriously until the end, or conveniently being stopped before they can wreck the heroes.
Some games have made it work where the villain isn't at full power, so they're getting a boost each time, with the heroes scraping by
I think he was a fine villain but not a great one, the way he flips out was neat but it should have been built up a little more both in the fight and throughout the game
His moveset and characterization in HW is also pretty cool even if he is mostly shit outside of abusing glitches
>>329552567
He was a villain but not the villain
>>329540741
he was supposed to be edge incarnate, I guess it worked
>>329552781
Because TP Ganon isn't quite the same Ganon, anon.
Yes, they're both from OoT, but had different experiences. TP Ganon was the Ganon in the child era who got stopped before he could start his coup on the kingdom and take over the land. Thus, he never got stopped by the hero of time, as shown by how the game never mentions any hero of time
>>329552781
Twilight Princess takes place in the Child Timeline. Fuck knows what happened but somehow Ganondorf fucked up and got captured before he could enter the sacred realm but the Triforce still split.
I don't know, Aonuma writes this shit in his sleep.
>>329552908
>>329552948
oh yeah
>>329552781
Those aren't the same Ganondorf, though.
Twilight Princess takes place in the child timeline, where a couple of punk kids got him arrested before he could actually do anything. He probably never even personally met any incarnation of Link until TP.
>>329552781
In this fork of the timeline it's possible that Ganondorf never met Link.
>>329552948
Link and Zelda fingered him and the kingdom arrested him. Though it clearly took several years from the way the sages speak
>>329553209
Seems weird though. Link would have knowledge of the future but nobody would know because the future hasn't happened yet. The most they could do was get Darunia and King Zora in as testimonials since Ganondorf literally tried to threaten all of them directly.
>>329553483
Well that, and it's believed Link may have shown the triforce. He does return to that timeline in the chamber of time, which was also where the triforce was stored/connected to.
This is implied since Ganon's execution shows him getting the trifroce of power, which would have had to have been released at some point to seek out its representative.
>>329553483
No when Link came back it was a hard reset, before he Ganondorf made any move (aka before getting the stones). When you meet Zelda the first time she was expecting you but in the ending she is surprised to see Link.
It would be impossible for anyone to vouch for Link, but here it comes a kid who knows all the secrets of the royal family and has the triforce on his hand, only a retard would play deaf to what he had to say.
>>329553635
People say two fragments of the triforce can't exist at the same time, thus when Link came back with the triforce of courage he split the triforce like Ganondorf did when he took over the triforce of power.
Thus Zelda and Dorf get their piece at a random time, conveniently for Ganondorf it was on his execution or the triforce only manifested itself there.
>>329554161
Not sure if Link really took the triforce back with him, since it was split up for WW. Though it's possible being dumped into the temple of time fucked up shit and got the triforce of that timeline split up to Ganon and Link and Zelda's descendants.
I still like to think WW Ganon summoning the whole triforce is what fucked up his TP counterpart, since Nomura said some shit about the two games happening concurrently or whatever
>>329553941
>only a retard would play deaf to what he had to say.
Hmmm, how can we help?
>>329554480
Not him but in the ending of OoT he has the triforce on his hand, I personally believe that he exchanged one piece for another, when Link went back his current triforce was released and possibly shattered for being forced out and swamped for the one in the past.
Of course there is the fact that TP wasn't intended to be a direct sequel but Aonuma fetish for interconnected stories forced us make place for it. After all not even Miyamoto understood when Aonuma tried to explain him his timeline.
