What makes a good J/RPG? What made SNES-era J/RPGs so much better than the ones we have now?
something about hardware limitations
>>329367239
They had comfier towns back in the good old days. Now devs focus all on having a crazy story but they need to make the town's and breaks in adventuring more comfy
Was Secret of Mana the true inspiration for Dark Souls' stamina system?
>>329367239
We didn't have so many crybaby bitch niggas complaining about dumb shit all the time.
Abundance has left us in want.
>>329367659
This.
>>329367239
Limitations actually forces you to be creative with the little you get
>>329367659
That can't be it though. The stories were better, gameplay more balanced, all that shit.
Why was game design so much better back then?
>>329369190
Because they actually cared about the little things?
A lot less weeb fan service.
>>329369190
Smaller teams, with more focus on making a good game, rather than good money?
>>329367239
Less exposure to other video games.
>>329367239
For me, the soundtrack and comfyness.
Simple Chrono Trigger was an SNES game, therefore any game that comes afterwards will be shit by comparison
>>329369483
Is this using nostalgia as an argument? Alright then.
>>329367239
>What made SNES-era J/RPGs so much better than the ones we have now?
Videogames in general were better "back then" whenever that may be, than they are now. The industry has gone massively downhill.
That said, this phenomenon is only a console generation old. PS2 JRPGs were no worse than SNES ones, in fact most were better. Most SNES JRPGs are held up by nostalgia and aren't as great as you remember them.
>>329369483
this tbhsenpaifam. But still, even Final Fantasy VI, Secret of Mana, etc, were better than your average RPG today. They all kick the shit out of FF8 and beyond, that's for sure, but the FF series is still seen as the gold standard of JRPGs for some fucktarded reason
>>329369556
I think he was just trying to say how people feel when it comes to older games.
>>329367239
They focused on world building and creating unique characters instead of throwing a self insert male as the protagonist followed by a check list of all the latest anime tropes. Oh, and all the characters are women, all of them.
It's pathetic that people honestly think it's okay to have a cast of characters like that. Sexes should be mostly even, or at least slightly disproportionate.
>>329369572
Nah man, my favorites are Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana and they are both way better than anything on the market today.
>>329369650
FFVI is a complete mess. You have a highly linear game and plot but an uninteresting one for the first half, and then suddenly there is no plot or direction for the entire second half of the game. It gets boring quick. They also didn't even try to balance the characters.
FFV is much better than VI.
>>329369757
Chrono Trigger is one of the better SNES ones, yes. If by "better than anything on the market today" you mean better than any JRPG of the last generation or this one, sure, maybe, but that's a low bar.
If you mean Chrono Trigger is the best JRPG ever you're incredibly delusional.
>>329367239
>What makes a good J/RPG?
Good gameplay via a steady sense of progression, varied enemies that can't be rolled over by players who are shit and not paying attention, and a smooth difficulty curve that challenges the player to think on their feet without boiling it down to luck or needing the player to grind to overcome.
Basically the same thing that makes dungeon crawlers like Wizardry good without the bad things that come with them.
>What made SNES-era J/RPGs so much better than the ones we have now?
They weren't.
>>329369860
It is m8.
Kicks the shit out of FFVII; that's the one people truly are nostalgia-blind for. It's plot is all over the fucking place(like every FF after III), it's way too grindy(note how Chrono Trigger can be beaten without any grinding whatsoever, as long as you don't run away too often). Final Fantasy is, for the majority, total shit.
Good JRPGs are hard to find and for the unique battle mechanic, focused story and amazing characters, Chrono Trigger beats the shit out of any other RPG I've ever played.
Not to mention it invented New Game+
>>329369779
THIS THIS THIS
FFVI was fucking terrible and the fact that Square basically used it as a blueprint for what they should do with later games AND a ton of their RPGs that had nothing to do with the FF series did a retarded amount of damage to the genre.
>>329370457
>Chrono Trigger
>Amazing characters
They're two-dimensional at best and have no group dynamic.
>>329369190
>gameplay more balanced
No it wasn't.
>>329370618
>I've never actually playes Chrono Trigger, im also butthurt
>>329370618
>I didn't do any of their side quests because I'm a jaded fuck who refuses to like anyone
They get developed a lot in their stories. Besides, two dimensions is still twice the depth of 95% of every other JRPG character.
>>329370457
>Not to mention it invented New Game+
It did not.
>>329370986
What game had New Game+ before Chrono Trigger?
>>329371060
SMT II. And I'm sure dozens before it as well.
>>329370618
everyone look at this little bitch
I can tell you OP. Hardware limitations made devs create
>comfy/ebin music
>not good-looking but well-implemented and fitting visuals
>sometimes dull combat encouraging to go on
>a will to make games in hopes to achieve sales not money
There you have it, the golden JRPG games of the SNES era.
>>329371060
Zelda 2.
>>329371593
>to achieve sales not money
What
>>329367239
They didn't pad the games with insufferable stuff, and the pacing was on point. Just well-balanced experiences, unlike post FF7 games.
>>329372147
>They didn't pad the games with insufferable stuff,
FFVI.
>>329372309
They didn't have endless sidequests with 10000000 hp monsters. Heck, you could tell most characters to fuck off in WoR and beat the game with 3 guys
I'd say pacing. It's really perfect in most of SNES JRPGs. You constantly go to new towns and dungeons. Compare this to something like Tales of Abyss where you do nothing, but run between 3 towns for 30 hours and watch cringe worthy cutscenes.
>>329372492
No, instead it had a bunch of shit tier sidequests, cutscene spam, and no difficulty the entire time.
How do I make a good RPG?
There was no dedicated "blueprint for success" that FF7 had created with it's ridiculous sales, so Squaresoft and other devs decided to create what they best thought would be an enjoyable experience and we ended up with nice, unique games with the occasional off the wall commercial failure.
Eventually, development costs for consoles became pretty high and publishers weren't willing to invest in anything that wouldn't have the highest possible rate of return, which in this case was generic, cinematic JRPGs with very familiar systems and nothing much in the way of originality.
>>329373190
Suikoden 2 had some beautiful assets.
>>329367239
>What made SNES-era J/RPGs so much better than the ones we have now?
Nothing. There're some SNES JRPGs that are good but mostly they are poorly balanced and/or boring to play.
>>329374261
How about
>why did the SNES era produce most of the best RPGs
>>329373094
I want to know this too
>>329374631
Lufia II, Trigger, Mother 2, FF V, FFVI, SMTII. That's, like, 6 games that are actually good. And none of them are masterpieces.
>>329369483
Seriously? Sure, chrono trigger was good, but it's definitely no better than Suikoden 2, which came out in 98/99
>>329370457
That's cute. Too bad you are extremely ill informed.
Plenty of games had a new game plus mode before chrono trigger, it just wasn't named new game plus. (digital devil saga, legend of Zelda, ghosts N goblins) and the chrono trigger characters were good, but the story doesn't hold up without them, it is entirely dependant on the character building to save what is otherwise a reductive and average plot. Look at something like the suikoden series by comparison: you can take all information about the characters out of it and tell someone the story and it is still a very interesting story to hear. Chrono trigger definitely does not hold up the same way.
>>329373190
I love this picture. Someone spent so much time with the sprite sheets to create this, and I appreciate it greatly.
>>329375213
I loved Lufia 2, that brings back some awesome memories
>>329371060
Iirc spelunker was the first.
>>329376350
The first Suikoden had a pretty shitty primary plotline.
Suikoden II's was decent, but what made that game so special was that it didn't fall into many of the typical JRPG cliches where the protags are gung ho teenagers eager to fight to their death. At several points in the game, they contemplate leaving since they know they're just kids caught up in a war they have no stake in. I have played more RPGs than I'm proud to admit, and I've never run up to anything even remotely similar to those moments.
>>329377267
Agreed. The way the game portrays the effect war has on families and friends is extremely mature, and it hasn't really been seen since.
>>329377267
In S2, you can literally run away and end the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWe-mDhXzno
>>329377568
Yep, and interestingly, that ending is technically better than finishing the game completely without recruiting all 108 characters. (I won't go into why to avoid spoilers for those that may still want to play it for the first time)
>>329377568
What a fantastic game. I hate that the Suikoden series is dead. Suikoden V was flawed, but it was much better than the previous 2.
>>329378280
I would put the quality of 5 just below 2, personally. I thought it was excellent. Especially considering it was made without the input of murayama, and had the restrictions of being a prequel so as not to mess with the overarching story of the first 3.
Good atmosphere, interesting worlds and music that are easily identifiable as being part of that game. Good character interactions that makes you enjoy and look forward to seeing how they react to the adventure unfolding.
Also a sense of adventure, the plot doesn't have to be super unique so long as it's interesting enough to make you want to progress.
SNES era JRPGs were good but so were PS1 and even PS2 era JRPGs. It wasn't really till the HD gen where it seems like they gave up trying, people blame it on fanservice but I played Atelier Totori and though it was low budget feeling, I still had the same feeling I got from older JRPGs just everything seemed more light and fluffy.
They just need to put more effort into them, not worry about getting CoD numbers and make them feel immersive.
>>329379447
>Atelier Totori
I never played an Atelier Game.
Should I start with that one? People usually say to start with Roronia
I only have PS3, PSP and PC
>>329379763
Look into it first, I was already big into moe anime when I got it so I knew what I was in for.
I started with Totori, there are also the Atelier Iris/Mana Khemia games.
>>329380093
I recently got it for my vita and it is still a great game.
>>329379978
I don't mind the moe anime but I'm wonder about the gameplay.
Is one more repetitive? If I play something first, will the other titles make things more dull cause I got used to the gameplay of the first one? Stuff like that
>>329367239
Pic unrelated? Chrono Trigger is one of the most overrated JRPGs I've ever played, lacking a shitload in characterization and world building.
>>329367981
Doubt
Tropes
>>329370758
>>329370891
>>329371172
He's right. The only good characters are Frog and Malgus, the rest suck massive dick.
>>329367239
nostalgia
>>329369572
>PS2 JRPGs were no worse than SNES ones
No.
>>329379763
It's recommended to play original Rorona first. Totori is the sequel. You can also play Rorona Plus but it has bonus scenario that's meant to be played after Totori and Meruru. But it's not like the story in Atelier is that good anyway, so you may start with any of them.
>>329380581
Not repetitive, it's all about resource management. Some people get nervous about having to manage their time but it's not that bad, you might have to do multiple playthroughs to get all the endings, I did my first play blind then second time used a guide. The newer ones are easier.
Crafting is fun.
