>get a knockdown
>grab beats block
>black beats strike
>strike beats grab
>wakeup beats strike
>wakeup beats grab
>block beats wakeup
so the guy who just got knocked down wins in a majority of scenarios. Makes total sense.
Quit rushing straight up to your opponent when he's down you super-offensive readable guy you.
>>329311969
>backup when you get a knockdown and go back to a nuetral position, getting rid of all momentum and advantage that you earned by getting a knockdown
Yup, pretty sound.
![[PLSP] Digimon Tamers 21 v2 (H264-AAC) [29639E8C].mkv_snapshot_14.21_[2016.02.15_09.06.47].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qIQj5M6.jpg "[PLSP] Digimon Tamers 21 v2 (H264-AAC) [29639E8C].mkv_snapshot_14.21_[2016.02.15_09.06.47].jpg")
Get better setups/safejumps if you're so okizeme oriented. They exist, but by SFV's very nature okizeme isn't all that strong. Do you even realize how few of your knockdowns are hard?
>>329312078
>do one thing the first time you knock someone down
>they expect it the second time
>neutral jump instead and attack combo them during their recovery frames
>>329312504
just because someone quick getups doesnt mean theres no guessing game, the retarded "is he gunna dp on wakeup?" dynamic is very much apparent along with a bunch of other guessing game nonsense.
And if SFV doesnt give advantages to someone who just got a knockdown, then thats inherently flawed.
>>329311851
>block beats strike
>wakeup beats strike
That only happens if you're mistiming your meatys so that you have negative frame advantage instead of positive. Properly timed meatys will leave you with positive advantage and can even keep you safe from v-reversals. The game is still really new so people haven't discovered strong oki setups, give it more time.
>>329312875
>they guess that you wont do the same thing again so they dp expecting a nuetral jump
its fucking rock paper scissors. not everyone is that predictable.
>>329312887
DPs are at minimum 5 frames in this game, there are plenty of safe jump setups waiting to be discovered.
>>329312902
wakeups with inv frames do not lose to strikes.
>>329313072
That's a really big gamble in this game, there's no fadc to make your wakeup dp safe on block and if they do block then you eat a crush counter and a big damage combo.
>>329313039
>what are inv frames
>>329313247
and dps also do a fuck ton more damage to ofset that risk. all it does it make the payout for a succesful gamble larger and the punishment larger aswell. all this means is that you have less chances to guess right or wrong, making the game feel unfair and overly gambly
>>329312887
Here, you can play Chun and make it basically a 50/50 if making a read is way too scary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gfPvr--W8s
Not everyone has an invincible wakeup and fewer still have them without meter, so hey. Pretty good odds. Still gonna have to work on rubbing those brain cells together to figure out your opponent's DP habits, though.
>>329313425
Do you not know what a safe jump is? You have 3 frames of recovery when you land where you can't block. If you time your jump so that the last frame of your jump-in will hit on the first frame of their wake up then you'll land and be able to block at least 2f before their invulnerable reversal is active. So what will happen is you'll jump in with an attack, it'll go through their head because they're invulnerable but you'll be able to block before they can hit you which means you get a free punish on their reversal.
That being said, it's still a really new game so no one knows any set ups for safe jumps yet, but they definitely exist and will be discovered.
>>329312982
welcome to mind games
don't like it, get out
>>329313531
The risk reward on a wakeup dp is still heavily in the favor of the guy blocking the dp. A crush counter combo does a lot more damage and stun than any dp does.
>>329313707
>reads aren't just glorifies guesses
>figuring out your opponents dp habits in one 2 round set
you might have to work on rubbing those brain cells together to avoid saying such moronic drivel in such a condescending tone.
>>329314075
If you're going to trivialize reads, I suggest getting into anime. Lots of setplay characters just for you. MKX might be more your speed?
And you can learn a lot about a person within the length of a single match if you focus on learning and play conservatively for -like- the first half of the first round, but even then the 1-and-done format is shit anyway and shouldn't be the basis of a discussion. I would love for SFV to be a Bo3 game in online matchmaking, it'd be sublime.
>>329314075
It's not going to be successful 100% of the time, but players do have tells and good players are able to figure out the habits of worse players in just a few exchanges.
>reads aren't just glorifies guesses
There's more than 1 kind of read. There are hard reads which are just guesses and then there are smart reads where the guess is heavily in your favor.
>>329313951
>>329312504
>>329313039
>Just safe jump! in a game where you can quick getup off of almost anything!
>>329313707
>tfw i've been doing this the entire time i've played chun
Shit is so solid. Your f.hp tracks them and your b.hp pretty much beats out any of their buttons AND leads into a free super if it counters. Thunder thighs is a force to be reckoned with.
>>329314365
>>329314372
if you're going to argue that reads aren't just guesses and take skill then you must also agree that rock-paper-scissors takes skill.
>>329314547
Mindgames come into play in extended sets of RPS, yes.
>>329314620
mind games =/= skill in an environment with such little options.
Chess is an example of a game with heavy mind games. SFV is glorified RPS
>>329314423
SF4 had quick getups too and every character had safe jumps. The difference is that now there's the back getup which is slower than the quick getup. It'll be interesting to see what sorts of safe jumps and oki setups people come up with to deal with both quick getup and back getup. I've already seen some nasty vortex stuff Cammy that beats both options, I'm sure it exists for other characters.
>>329314547
This is a flawed analogy, in RPS there's only ever 3 options that your opponent can choose from and the risk/reward is the same for them all. In fighting games you can create situations where your opponent has a bunch of shitty options while you only have good options.
>>329314770
SF4 had atleast twice as many options on wakeup with things like focus, focus dashing and dash canceling, crouch teching, option selects, ect.
not only this, but damage delt on a wrong guess was smaller, making the game less about making a few right guesses and more about getting back to the nuetral game where the real skillful play starts.
>>329314953
>like......
>>329314057
Exactly this. I get at least 200 damage off of a meterless crush counter combo. About 300 with meter and 450+ with CA.
>>329313039
that's wrong, ken and ryu's mp DPs are both 4f, ryu's EX is 3f, cammy's EX is 3f, necalli's EX is 3f
![1437610943586[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/TFhOUQL.png "1437610943586[1].png")
>Get knocked down
>Dumbass opponent presses mashes sweep while I'm getting up
>I have full super
>Mfw
>>329315458
You're right, my info was wrong. However, that means there are only 3 characters that aren't safe-jumpable and it's only when they have meter. Plus there's always the option of a neutral jump-in to beat a wakeup ex reversal on those characters.
>>329313072
Maybe learn a safe jump or use a meaty projectile.
>>329311851
>sucks at the game
>refuses to acknowledge the rules
>for some reason it's the game's fault
If you're gonna do this, you might as well give up on fighting games now. It won't get better.
Mind games are the fucking point of fighting games
>>329311851
Have they fixed the hitboxes to not be shit yet?
Getting too much of the shit where my hand goes through someone i'm trying to grab.
>>329311851
>black beats strike
Except making an opponent block something still puts you in frame advantage and
>wakeup beats strike
>wakeup beats grab
"wakeup" is allowed to multiple things because getting it blocked leads to you eating 400 damage.
Combos man...I just cant get it down. Im getting really decent at Anti Airs and keeping neutral but I just cant seem to put the moves together to pressure my opponent. Its incredibly frustrating
>>329311851
the question isn't just whether A beats B, but by how much A beats B.
consider ryu - he can shoryuken on wakeup. this beats grabs and meaties, but loses to block.
but the thing is - if your opponent was attempting a grab or a meaty, he will take around 120 damage from your shoryuken and get knocked down.
but if he blocks your shoryuken, he will then proceed to punish you with a crush counter combo, dealing 300+ damage and knocking you down.
while "shoryu beats meaty and grab, but loses to block" is true, but you must also consider that when shoryu loses, you lose close to a third of your total HP. this is a risk you can't always afford to take.
>>329311851
rock paper scisscors OP. god I hate this so much when playing agianst ken/ryus
>>329311851
>block beats strike
does it?
>block high
>get fucked by crouching kicks
>block low
>get fucked by overhead
and even if you block right, you don't necessarily "beat" them. depending on what attack you blocked, you might still be at a frame disadvantage.
>Want to play Necalli.
>Can't get used to his t-rex limbs or charging his dash attack.
Anyone got any pointers for charging that during combos. Probably doesn't help I'm using a 360 controller.
>>329321917
>Anyone got any pointers for charging that during combos.
Standing normal? Hold back while you use it. Crouching normal? Hold down-back while you use it. Also find out your strings that give you enough time to hit-confirm as well as to charge up the move as an ender.
>>329320149
That's intentional, the ranges on grabs and normals are a lot shorter than in SF4. Also, it's pretty typical for hitboxes not to match models and animations. Models and animations are optimized to look good, when you make the hitboxes align with 3d models then weird shit happens (like the infinites in vanilla sf4 and the corner unblockables) and if you adjust the animations and models to match hit boxes then it doesn't look as good.
