Is there a way to avoid having to kill the Brotherhood of Steel?
I sided with house, but I don't want to blow the bunker ;-;
>>323615858
With House? No.
>>323615858
no, the only way to not kill the BoS is to side with yesman, everyone else will kill them no matter what. since the BoS are a bunch of asshats.
the only DECENT chapter of the BoS was based out of washington, and the REST of the BoS can't stand them
>>323617475
>everyone else will kill them no matter what
NCR won't kill them if you don't make the BoS switch their leader
>>323617475
>>323617536
This. If McNamara is still Elder, you can convince NCR and the Mojave Brotherhood to form a truce. If Hardin took over though, only way to get that ending is console commands.
>>323617475
>the BoS are a bunch of asshats.
How so?
>>323617796
>nobody should have technology beyond ballistics or fire
>if they do we'll fuck them up and take it
They're asshats
>>323617796
very rarely can you actually talk with the BoS (the only reason it works so well for us is because of main character syndrome) and thus their normal response to anyone that isnt them is to shoot it dead then a raider dosed up on 200 shots of jet
If you have anything that runs off of energy at all, they want it and for you to not have it end of story end of discussion.
>>323617796
The Brotherhood is a group of inflexible, xenophobic bullies who are too absorbed trying to restore their former strength rather than changing in order to survive in the new world.
>>323617796
They're a terrorist group, basically. Militant, quasi-religious fanatics obsessed with hoarding Pre-War technology.
Not all technology, mind you. You don't see them raiding hospitals to cart away Auto-Docs or armfuls of prosthetic organs.
No, they greatly prefer the sort of technology that puts people in hospitals. Or graves, rather, since hospitals went the way of the Dodo.
>How so?
They're ridiculous! Because they galavant around the Mojave pretending to be Knights of Yore.
Or did, until the NCR showed them that ideological purity and shiny power armor don't count for much when you're outnumbered 15:1.
The world has no use for emotionally unstable techno-fetishists.
I think saving the BoS while siding with house used to be in the game but they took it out because it would be too easy of a choice with house. It might even still be coded in, just commented out.
There's a mod that allows you to, look it up. You don't really get anything from it so I don't consider it cheating.
>>323618629
Yeah, Sawyer said something to that affect about it. They realized that working for House was too easy of a choice, so they made him a bit more of an inflexible oligarch.
>in every new vegas thread, people shit on the Brotherhood of Steel and say they all deserve to die
>cite that theyre a "quasi religious terrorist group"
>"they attack people for their technology!!!"
>these same people will then go on to defend a faction that is not the Followers of the Apocalypse
seriously, fuck off. every faction in the game has its own drawbacks. Most of the time its an aggressive or degenerate flaw, and in the Followers' case, they are pacifist in a violent world. The wasteland is a fucking hellhole and criticizing a group for violence for X reason and defending another group for violence for Y reason is fucking stupid, ESPECIALLY if you're going to say the Brotherhood all deserve to die when it's very obvious a lot of them are at the LEAST decent people who care about each other and dont just kill people for fun
Just blow them up, they're a worthless relic of the Vault Dwellers time
>>323619325
The Brotherhood's problem isn't violence. It's strict adherence to principles that are leading to their order's collapse. They've had their balls chopped off over the past fifty years, and now they are desperately trying to remain relevant in a world that no longer wants or needs them.
>>323619325
I'm not saying they deserve to die, i'm saying they're fucking asshats that need to at least learn to not piss in the same sandbox that everyone else plays in.
Also fuck the followers too, they cause just as many problems as the solve, sometimes even WORSE. Fuckin Caesar used to be one of em.
>>323619325
Kings are pretty fucking based.
Legion's [hypocritical] forbidding of technology is also flat-out retarded.
>>323615858
If you're on PC, yes. There's a mod available that re-enables the option to do that (Obsidian wrote and recorded lines for it, but for whatever reason [the deadline approached too quickly for them to fully implement it, they decided that it would be out of character for House to be convinced to let the BoS live, etc.], they Hot Coffee-d it out of the game). However, you'll need to put quite a few points into your Speech skill to pull it off.
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/37729/?
>>323619580
>fuck the followers because one follower just happened to be capable of becoming Caesar
familiar that makes no sense
>>323619325
The NCR is, memes aside, the most solid faction. The two biggest complaints, both in-game and in these threads, are that the government is corrupt and that it is an overextended empire.
The first issue doesn't make them any worse than anyone else except maybe House because there are examples of corruption and betrayal in just about every other faction. Their overextension is also a problem for the Legion, which is doomed to collapse if they fail to capture the resources in the Mojave. So really, the NCR is no worse than anyone else even if they are shit themselves.
>>323619843
>kings
>beat and kill NCR stragglers just because theyre not MUH FREESIDE LOCALS despite them being as poor and destitute as anyone in freeside
>cutting off access to the water pump
>in general as violent as the brotherhood
theyre definitely no better, only different
>>323619843
Well yeah, that's the point. Caesar banned technology because he doesn't want some no-name grunt getting their hands on a laser rifle and challenging the authority of one of his centurions.
>>323619874
all it takes is one person to shit the bed hard enough to tarnish the image of a whole group forever
So when is "Fallout 4: Whatever" by Obsidian?
>>323619954
The NCR are literally killing themselves
The best outcome in NV is The Courier becoming Cowboy Jesus, the entire point of Lonesome Road was basically to hammer in the fact that you SHOULDNT be so hung up on emulating old world ideologies and governments
>>323620018
A point that makes very little sense if you apply game logic. Energy weapons aren't any better than guns or melee, and arguably worse since the ammo is rare. I know it's supposed to be that energy weapons are super powerful and have long-lasting batteries, but that's simply not the case in the actual game, unfortunately.
>>323619954
>they only have two complaints! one of them is government being corrupt
>brushes off government corruption in a fucking lawless wasteland as not a big deal
it is a big deal though. in the present day corruption can mean rigged elections, idiots in office, embezzlement, nepotism, etc
in the wasteland it means:
>forcibly evicting people from their land and making them join the NCR
>not allocating proper supplies or troops to key areas, which can lead to situations like the powder ganger revolt and taking over of primm, lots of people dying in the process
>taking the power from specific places and redirecting it to NCR only regions, fuck whoever else was relying on it previously, theyre not NCR (despite not having any more of a legitimate claim on the power supply than anyone else)
>morons like kimball and oliver in charge leading to hundreds if not thousands of pointless deaths for pointless expansion
no, fuck you. NCR is no more solid than any other faction
>>323620149
I'd like something in canada, I know it'd never happen but it's something I want.
Also the thought of mutated moose amuses and terrifies the bejesus out of me
>>323620068
but that's bullshit, because what Caesar did wasn't related to him being a follower other than he happened to be a follower when he became Caesar
it's not like he conquered all those tribes in the followers' name. He didn't make his Legion based on teachings of the Followers. He was a follower, then he was not a follower, then he conquered some tribes and became Caesar
>>323620262
The entire point of Lonesome Road is that Ulysses, the mouthpiece of Avellone, is a contrarian faggot.
>>323620409
True, true. It's just one of those lore>game balance things I guess.
>>323620421
Not to mention failing to protect the people they gobble up into their government.
>>323620581
He's just a butthurt loser who is just as obsessed with 'Old World symbols' as the factions he's shitting all over. That's the point: to prove to him that he's a moron.
>>323620581
Way to miss the point then
Been a while since I played, but I've been thinking of doing a melee/unarmed only run. How long would it take to do everything? Like every main quest, side quest, follower quest, get every unique weapon, find all locations, do all DLC, etc. ? Could I sink 100 hours into it?
there was supposed to be an option to ignore the BoS and still work with House but that was cut out.
>>323620525
>thought of mutated moose amuses and terrifies the bejesus out of me
You haven't played 4 or something?
Friendly reminder Legion is the best faction
>>323620421
You missed the point of the post. NCR is corrupt and so is everyone else. The Legion had traitors, Legate Lanius didn't give a fuck about Caesar's policies, BoS was a clusterfuck of people trying to get one over on each other, every SINGLE faction in the Strip had some big dispute/betrayal that the Courier solves.
Yeah, the Courier becoming a dictator is probably the best option for most people, but out of the pre-existing factions at least the NCR had come out on top once already.
>>323620973
>just a deer version of Brahmin
I like the design, but seriously, could Bethesda think of nothing else?
>>323620857
depending on difficulty (since all difficulty does is add hp and dt to everything) and the path you take it can easily take you more then 100 hours
also it depends on how much you look up on the nukapedia
>>323621051
Friendly reminder that as a Legionnaire, you cannot be cucked because steady relationships between soldiers and women are prohibited.
>>323621134
it just works
>>323620857
If you do every side quest, companion stuff, find all locations, and all the DLC, it would easily take >100 hours. Probably much, much longer. It's far more likely that you'll lose interest before you actually complete all that.
>>323620789
BEAR AND BULL
>>323621093
i dont understand what youre saying, because you sound like youre trying to agree with me by saying the ncr is as shitty as everyone else, but then you try and say the ncr is as shitty as everyone else but at least theyre kind of better because they won the first time
which doesnt prove anything because they would have gotten raped the second time by the legion without the Courier's help, and even if they won, they wouldve kept expanding and eventually lost again because theyre fucking overexpansive morons
>>323620973
no I haven't actually, waiting for the game of the year edition like I have for all fallouts past 2.
And thats a deer not a moose. With a moose I was thinking yao-guai but with antlers, 4 times it's size and a whole lot worse.
>>323620789
But you don't.
No matter what you do, you just reaffirm his beliefs. All you accomplish is stopping the nukes.
>>323619580
>a group of dedicated doctors is somehow makingf things worse
Explain
>>323621396
>And thats a deer not a moose
I know, but it makes little difference since they're subspecies.
>I was thinking yao-guai but with antlers, 4 times it's size and a whole lot worse.
Doubt Bethesda would design something like this, singe xbox hueg antlers would clip through everything
>>323621727
They're technically responsible for Caeser's LegionBut The Legion also did nothing wrong
>>323618284
Tumblr
>>323621832
theyre literally not responsible for Caesar's Legion
>germany commissions scientists to build an atomic bomb
>scientists defect to america
>america builds bomb
>america bombs hiroshima
>hitler did Hiroshima and Nagasaki
>>323621194
I always play on hardest difficulty, so I shouldn't have a problem.
>>323621338
I did that in Fallout 4, just finished it the other day after 190 hours (got all the endings as well). I'm on my second playthrough. I won't get bored. I did a run of New Vegas a few years ago where I did everything including DLCs but I didn't do all companion stuff, I missed a few uniques and I didn't discover all the locations. Put in around 75 hours or so.
>>323620262
lonesome road is the only dlc i havent done. did i save the worst for last or is it good
>>323619954
>The NCR is, memes aside, the most solid faction
I think you missed the point. If you keep playing the game, you come to the conclusion they're just as bad as the Legion, maybe worse.
>>323621727
They have little to no infrastructure to support themselves, put ideals above reality, and have no way to "deal with" rogues like Caesar (when he decided to conquer the Blackfoots--Calhoun just shit off back home and the Followers made no attempt to stop him).
I love the Followers, but they have more than their share of problems.
>>323621745
not like that stopped them with literally everything they've made
>>323622254
It's alright but you have to find and listen to all of Ulysses tapes
>>323622254
OWB > LR > DM >HH
>>323622345
kek, you right
>>323622018
Well, actually in this case it's true. They are characterized that way. They're remnants of the US military that vowed to consolidate all technology from before the war to protect the world from itself. They really, really look down on outsider plebs.
I mean they're mostly right, but they are very difficult to work with even for a common goal and they way they achieve they goal is mostly just a hassle for everybody who isn't them, which as the player includes you.
>>323622278
Yeeeeeeah, no. I'll take living under a corrupt government run by greed over a military dictatorship where disobeying a soldier could get me crucified any day.
>>323622839
>They're remnants of the US military
That's Enclave, no?
>>323622018
>>323622839
This. Their core philosophy isn't ignoble by any means, but their leadership goes about it all wrong. There's a difference between trying to keep the world from destroying itself with technology again, and trying to win a match of "Who's dick is bigger?" with everyone else in the Wasteland.
>>323623046
Yes and no. They're separate organizations stemming from the US government. Pretty sure Enclave was the government proper and BoS was part of the army.
This is why the Enclave continues to operate its bureaucracy and advance technology while the Brotherhood just has lots of pre-war gear they are adept at operating and maintaining.
>>323623046
No, the Enclave are the shadow government, akaIlluminati.
>>323620149
Todd won't let them bring back skills or a decent dialogue system or RPG elements, because if the obsideon version looks too good it will make Bethesda look like idiots for fucking up 4.
>>323622839
The mojave chapter went rogue and is way too to the codex. Its no real loss overall if you genocide them in the end.
>Mcnamara is so desperate to save his chapter he hires a fucking questionable mailman to search for parts.
>>323623046
Enclave was a secret society (?) in the US government before the War, most of whom fled to the Oil Rig off California's coast to stay safe.
Brotherhood were born from a detachment of the US military stationed at Mariposa Military Base when the nukes hit, and renounced their affiliation with the government after learning about the FEV testing.
>>323623280
>a fucking questionable mailman
I play a pretty straight shooter so they have no reason not to trust me. It's really hard to get in contact with them anyway, you've basically already established a degree of trust the moment you find a valid reason to contact them.
>>323623274
>obsidian, you're not allowed to put things in the game that would make it way better, because we took them out and made the series worse
Was Bethesda intentionally trying to ruin the series?
>>323623608
It's my understanding that Todd has really good taste in games and is likely intentionally dumbing this shit down for the masses.
>>323623280
The Mojave chapter didn't go rogue, it's the only fucking one that's still somewhat sticking true to the original incarnation
Them and The Enclave need to fuck off for good/remain as remnants, ever since those shitty Tactics games the faction has been whored out as Mary Sues to no end, and it's even worst with Bethesda now
>>323623795
Well anon, I hope you're ready for Fallout 5, where the Brotherhood are taking the good fight to... *spins wheel* New York!
>>323623608
Fallout 4 went the Skyrim route; Todd gutted the RPG elements for the casual crowd.
I knew the game would be a massive disappointment, but even then with the sarcastic shitty voiced main character, the atrocious writing, and the lack of good factions and decisions and skills just suck the fun out of the game.
>>323623795
>shitty Tactics games
i'll fite you 4 this m8
>>323618292
>The world has no use for emotionally unstable techno-fetishists.
Isn't this a little hypocritical coming from House?
>>323622850
Have you talked to most of the people under the Legion? The thing that sucks is being a woman or slave, other than that things are pretty good. You work your land and don't have to be taxed to hell and there are no raiders fucking you up.
However, both are nightmare Empires emulating the old world and not even thinking to recognize what made them fail.
>>323624371
Fuck, there's a lot of things I can forgive, but the writing and lack of choices killed the game. Everything felt hollow because there was a grand total of ONE way to complete most quests, maybe TWO if you were lucky; and let's not forget that 2/3 of those quests are randomized "go here, get this" bullcrap.
>>323624630
Are you kink shaming, shit lord?
>>323624661
Yes, I have. Zero taxes and raiders means very little when the government protecting you can march into town, take whatever they want, and slaughter your whole village if you resist.
>>323624661
>The thing that sucks is being a woman or slave
>women accounts for 50% of population
>don't know how many slaves they own but I'll wager another 10% of the population at least
How is outright saying 'more than half the legions' citizens hate their lives' supposed to be taken as a ringing endorsement for those larpfags?
>>323624661
I always play a female Courier so I have never been able to finish a play thru with the legion.
Also, the only people who actually have it okay are male citizens in theor main areas. The ratio of slaves to citizenshas to be incredibly uneven since, if they don't just murder and crucify the people they rum into, they rape and enslave them.
They actually say that women hold a lower position in their society than dogs. Then they want my help while still shit talking the MC for being female.
No, they're almost comically evil in practicality. You really have to be looking for something decent in the Legion to find it while also ignoring all the rape, and slavery, and crucifixion, and inequality, and quality of life for 80% of the population.
>>323624371
you know, the whole base building thing that F4 does, woulda actually worked fucking fantastically in skyrim
>>323625289
They did it kinda in Hearthstone
>>323624630
But House himself is basically a robot so it doesn't really count
>>323625191
I think it has to be more than 10% slaves. When you go to the Fort it's full of them, and that's a military installation, not a farm or a town back east.
>>323625398
nowhere near the degree of scale or freedom though.
I can see a lot of people tearing the code of F4 apart just to shove that in a skyrim mod
>>323624924
>government protecting you can march into town, take whatever they want
The NCR does this too. They just don't do the slaughtering instead they tax you and conscript your children to for their colonial expansion.
>they're almost comically evil in practicality.
No they're not. Please give me examples of this. The sacking of Niption was old world brutality but it continues to happen now. It sent a message to the NCR and other wastelanders. Camp Searchlight? Another psychological blow to the NCR. The Legion knew how to fight a war unlike the NCR. People forget how bad total war really is.
>>323625571
You're in one of the largest military camps. They need slaves for logistical purposes.
>>323625597
But the FO4 building was ripped pretty much directly from mods that did just that, but more effectively.
the Think Tank is the best faction
>>323619991
>killing NCR scum
>not a act of good
>ration the water so the NCR scum doesnt drink it all
Look at this corrupt prick.
>>323625680
Taxes for protection is a fair trade though. And if you want to talk "conscript your children", then Caesar is even worse. At least NCR doesn't use brainwashed fifteen year olds with machetes as their front-line troops.
>>323625680
Sorry, but I think anyone not a complete sociopath would take taxation and military service over fear of being crucified, enslaved or having your wife get gangbanged.
Also I don't really know why I should give you any examples when you provided them yourself. They're brutal and excessive in every way. Did I miss in FO1/2 where the newly established NCR, alsp trying to position itself, intentionally psychologically tortured people, burned them alive, crucified them, raped the women, and enslaved them and the kids? The Legion could have just killed those people to send a message but instead they tortured them, first psychologically, which probably no one would find out about anyway.
This is about siding with a faction. I can't imagine why anyone would want to hang out with these guys unless they actually are impressed by Edgemaster shit.
>>323626275
Most of the NCR front line troopers are young farmer boys who had to enlist because of crippling taxes on their families, though
>>323626650
They're all teens or 20 somethings. The Legion brainwashes children. The legion is full of 12-15 year olds who worship Caesar as a god.
Again, I'd take taxes over slavery, rape, and crucifixion any day.
>>323620018
Pretty damn sure Caesar want to make it clear to the soldiers that they shouldn't rely on technology, but instead rely on their own capabilities. This was mainly due to the fact the legion clearly doesn't have enough guns and other high standard weapons to equip the army with.
Basically he want them to get used to the fact that the most of them will be fighting in melee especially if their equipment breaks down.
After all, many high tier weapons were reserved for the Centurions, and and Van Graffs quest outcome were supposed to grant the legion energy weapon supplies.
>>323617475
>the only DECENT chapter of the BoS was based out of washington
Not anymore.
>>323626573
> fear of being crucified, enslaved or having your wife get gangbanged.
You have modern bias. This use to happen in the ancient world and the Legion emulated. It's not personal it's business
>they're brutal and excessive in every way.
Yes, but it's necessary. It's giving them results and obedience.
>The Legion could have just killed those people
But that's not what the Legion is does. They're crippling the NCR physically, mentally psychologically and they're winning. The NCR is not committed to total war which is costing them dearly.
Caesars whole point is how Democracy or Communism just don't work. And that the systems in place work better for the wasteland.
>>323617475
>he doesn't know you can force through a treaty between BoS and NCR
>>323617475
The ones in DC are technology destroying Space Marines now
>>323624630
>implying house is a techno-fetishist
Just because is army is 100% robots doesn't mean he has a hard-on for all tech. He only uses the securitrons because he can count on them completely.
He's more than willing to use people for tasks that don't require total loyalty (Three Families to help maintain order on the Strip, prospectors to find the Chip, couriers to bring the Chip to him, etc)
>cucks argue legion vs NCR
>house is an objectively better choice
>and yes man is just house route except you replace house
non-independent couriers are true cuckolds
>>323626275
>At least NCR doesn't use brainwashed fifteen year old
Yeah, they use supposedly free men who just want to work their land and raise families as their slave soldiers. So much better!
All NCR supporters are ultimate cucks.
They favor slavery disguised as freedom. At least the Legion is open about its brutality.
>>323617796
They're entire purpose is to gather technology in order to get more technology
They never try to invent anything new or update current technology they're entire way of life leads to stagnation.
What are they going to do when they have all of Pre-war America's Energy Weapons and Robots?
They aren't rebuilding society or trying to save what little society there is left
I never understood why people like the BoS but dislike the Followers of the Apocalypse? They want educate the people in the wastelands on technologies of the past and ultimately allow them to decide how to best make use of it. Restoration is the ideal and they're not so pompous as to go around trying to shoot you dead just for possessing something that runs on energy. What the fuck?
>>323617796
Fucking play Fallout 1 and 2 you underaged sack of shit
>play as an ex NCR trooper who got burned by the brass
>became a jaded alcoholic gunslinging bounty hunter after soldier days
>supports ncr, hates the government
>becomes a courier
im planning on letting kimball die, and hopefully there's some way i can get oliver to die as well but ill be satisfied with just kimball
>>323632401
Go Independent and have Yes Man throw Oliver off the Dam.
>>323627767
FO4 is not cannon
>>323632523
i would but i literally just did an independent run
and i decided to let both live because, as house said, it's worse for them and better for me if i let them go back to california defeated
i killed lanius though
>>323615858
Everyone dies anon.
The BoS is destined to be slaughtered regardless if it's you pulling the trigger or not. Especially given how incapable of adaptation they are.
>>323617796
>oh hey someone, lets enslave them!
Reloaded my save and refused to finish off the main quest until I had the power to destroy them
I love how well written the game is, years later and we are STILL discussing the same shit, because it's just so fucking hard to get a consensus about it.
>Brotherhood is all over the US
>They always either end up nearly wiped out or turn into fascists
>>323622409
See? This guy gets it.
>>323633902
HH might not be as good as the others, but it has Joshua motherfucking Graham on it so that saves it and makes it absolutely worth it by default.
Probably the best character in the whole fallout franchise.
>>323622254
Old world blues is god-tier
Dead money is annoying to get through but you get an endless amount of dosh for completing it.
LH is shit.
>>323634048
Of course, Honest Hearts is not a bad DLC. It was just lacking content beocuse those Bethesda fags and the short amount of time they gave Obsidian to make the game. Also here's a wallpaper for your words of wisdom.
>>323634441
i don't know if with LH you mean Honest Hearts or Lonesome Road.
>>323635543
It's obviously Lonesome Heart, the dating sim DLC, didn't you play it?
>>323635687
I was too busy playing Payday: The Date and Hatoful Boyfriend.
>>323626901
Plus no technology
Brotherhood of steel are faggots, use to them to get power armor training and dope gear then kill them all.
Also DO NOT blow up the bunker. Kill them all, loot their gear and enjoy your sweet ass secret bunker.
My favourite method of killing them is to hack the turrets and set it to kill everyone. Its a terminal on the left when you enter with some named paladin in there.
Hack it and listen to the blasts and screams, turn them off when it goes quiet and hunt down the rest.
>>323633478
It goes like this.
>plebs goes NCR since they kinda look like murrica
>beta "intellectuals" goes House
>Edgy kids goes Anarc
>brave men of huge balls goes independent
>patricians and true intellectuals goes Legion
House is best choice.
>Play goodie two shoes self insert power armor wearing lazer shooting faggot and side with House because he would better the world
>Play Old man gunslinger in cowboy hat, sunglasses, a duster and a revolver. My guy is an asshole who only cares about caps to pay for his alcoholism so he sides with house so he can sit in the lucky 38 getting drunk while House does shit.
Cowboy was the better run, being mr perfect is boring.
If the Brotherhood is bad, why does the game lower your karma for each kill?
>>323637843
Because Karma is dumb. I played an asshole who stole shit, killed people, did horrible things like nuke places and eat people yet I still had perfect good boy Karma.
>>323638015
the game throws way too much good karma at you, especially when you spend the early parts of the game kiling gangers and ghouls
>>323637716
>because he would better the world
With Casinos?
>>323640705
good ol' revolutionary technology my man
>You'll never play the original concept for fallout van buren
>You'll never get a good glimpse into what it's like in Caesar's territory and the tribes that comprise its population
