What's wrong with a game being casual?
>>323447303
>What's wrong with a game being shit?
>>323447303
Nothing. That game was just shit.
>what's wrong with reading young adult fiction in your 20s
>what's wrong with watching capeshit movies
>what's wrong with listening to top-40 music
>>323447501
Why does it being casual mean that the game is shit?
>>323447542
Why is it shit?
>>323447627
More like
>what's wrong with reading journals of famous figures?
>what's wrong with watching musicals?
>what's wrong with listening to traditional folk music?
>>323447303
There's nothing wrong with A game being casual. There is something wrong with an entry in a long-running hardcore series being casualised.
>>323447819
Fallout 3 wasn't hardcore. Why should Fallout 4 be hardcore?
Also, who says that it has to be hardcore? It's an entirely different publisher.
This is like saying the Nolan Batman films are terrible because they aren't campy and ridiculous. They have a lot of flaws, but complaining because "it's not the old shit" is a flawed argument.
Fallout 4 isn't a bad game, contrary to what these folks would have you believe.
It's a disappointing game. That doesn't mean it's bad.
>>323448608
Agreed.
>>323448006
Games being casualized in and of itself isn't inherently a bad game. Yet Fallout has it's roots in hardcore rpgs, and the ways in which they casualize 4 negatively impact the overall experience.
Casualized games themselves aren't always bad. But Fallout 4 makes Fallout 3 look hardcore, and there's a problem there.
>>323449431
>Yet Fallout has it's roots in hardcore rpgs
Like I said, why does it have to be hardcore? Refer back to my Batman examples. Both the campy and the serious movies have flaws, but the Nolan films aren't bad simply because they're serious.
>tfw 5 hours played
>tfw all spent on trying to make the first settlement
>>323447303
Why are there still Fallout 4 threads.
This game is dead.
We all know it sucks.
pls fuck your own face OP
>>323447303
Nothing. I just don't like casual games as much. And Fallout has traditionally not been a casual game, so turning it into one is one less hardcore game for me to play.
>>323447303
Nothing.
You just get people who want to justify the amount they play videogames as something more then something fun to kill time with.
Admittedly games like facebook games are a different league, but it all really depends on what you want to sit down and do.
Most people complain about a casual game if it's something they want to autistically waste time on but doesn't allow them to fully unleash their autism
>>323449792
Because a lot of the appeal of the past games is their deep and rewarding roleplaying systems.
No, it doesn't HAVE to include those things and be hardcore, you're right. I still enjoy the game. It's just when they change stuff like only have perks instead of allocating skill points to different skills, and severely watering down the dialogue system, it makes the game feel like a step back rather than a step forward.
>>323447303
gamers will to evolve as human beings and looking to games as a means to an end. Getting confused about the so called casulisation of the industry. If you play enough games any games wikll eventually seem causual.
>>323448608
>folks
>its just disappointing
wonder where you came from
>>323450310
see but I'm not convinced it's a "step back." Bethesda has always tried to adapt their games to the tastes in gaming of the day, to make a generation's quintessential RPG.
>>323447639
besides the amount of game breaking bugs?
>>323450683
Ive experienced zero game breaking bugs.
>>323450750
I guess you got lucky with that
>>323447639
>Why is it shit?
Considerably fewer roleplaying options, an incredibly bland and arbitrary progression system, mediocre gunplay, bad writing, bugs everywhere, and stupidly repetitive quests/dungeons. There's nothing remotely engaging about it.
>>323450552
If you're implying I'm from reddit or something, you couldn't be more wrong.
But of course, instead of explaining why you think the game is bad, you just scream "HEY, THAT GUYS NOT CIRCLEJERKING, HE MUST BE FROM REDDIT!"
Kinda ironic t b h f a m
>>323447303
It's wrong when the game becomes a pile of shit and casual cuckoldry object after having started out as a real fucking fun game. And I'm talking about the progress of Fallout 1 & 2 to 3.
>>323450934
bias: the post
>>323451245
this
>>323447303
Nothing.
The people of /v/ are just salty man-children who hate on everything because hating things is a meme now.
>>323451442
>Fallout 1 and 2
>more fun than 3 and 4
Trying too hard.
>>323451446
>bias: the post
Feel free to actually refute any of my points.
>>323451446
>THE MODDING COMMUNITY WILL FIX IT XD
the post.
>>323451803
Youre hyperbolizing the flaws. None of its nearly as bad as you say. And the gunplay id the best in the series.
>>323452090
I found Fallout 4 to be one of the few Beth games to be playable without mods.
>>323450645
And I'm not convinced it's a "quintessential RPG." Before in their games, you had to really commit to the sort of character you wanted to play as. What kinds of weapons you wanted to focus on, what sorts of abilities and skills and that sort of thing. That's where the roleplaying part comes in. In Fallout 4, you really just take perks, and it's easy for you to just take every perk and be good at everything.. Which is certainly fun, don't get me wrong, and it encourages experimentation. But that combined with a poor dialogue system that doesn't offer much choice and isn't very robust makes the roleplaying itself less engaging than it has been in the past.
>>323452391
>and it's easy for you to just take every perk and be good at everything..
Not really though, you have to have the right SPECIAL. And because of how they balanced it that's very hard to become a jack of all trades.
>>323451803
Well, the gunplay is leaps and bounds better than FNV for one, but I do agree that the writing and the way the game progresses is iffy at best.
Hence why I said Fallout 4 was a disappointing game -- it failed to deliver on some aspects but did others well.
Nothing. But that is not what Fallout ever was, so it was a huge disappointment
>>323452778
The GUNPLAY was better in FO4, but the gameplay wasn't desu.
I can make NV feel much better with mods than FO4 does.
>>323453139
What was Fallout, then? Not saying I like how Fallout 4 barely qualifies as an RPG, but we're talking about a series that went from isometric to FPS.
>>323453253
Nah, the menus and in general the game flow is massively improved.
>>323452696
It's not difficult to become a jack of all trades at all. There's no level cap so you can't get every perk and max every stat. Vanilla Fallout 3's level cap was 20 so there was only so much you could do, so you had to be more mindful about how you allocate points and what perks to take.
>>323453508
Are you talking about the pip-boy that uses one fifth of the available screen space?
>>323454048
>Vanilla Fallout 3's level cap was 20 so there was only so much you could do
That's not true at all. If you got 9 (10 with bobblehead) Intelligence you easily could get 60+ in every stat, with 100 in multiple. Fallout 3 was significantly easier to become godlike in.
>>323454062
I'm talking about how the Pip Boy screens were optimized and how the container previews were added and grenades and SO ON.
>>323454048
>>323454315
And then if you got all the skill mags well fuck, you're at 100 in everything. Which didn't even require 10. You just needed like 5 Intelligence and as long as you took Educated and Comprehension you're guaranteed to get 100 in everything.
>>323454315
And yet pip-boy only shows barely any information at all because 80% of the screen are covered by the SUPER COOL HAND MODEL AND PIP-BOY FRAME SO REALISTIC
It's baffling you'd call anything about FO4 UI an improvement
>>323454698
I really don't get why you hate the Pip Boy. I've never had any issue with it taking up the screen.
You're just trying to fish for negative qualities to hate the game. Which is all you people do, really; because otherwise you can't justify why fallout 3/4 or obliv/skyr are much worse than their flawed predecessors.
I feel sorry for you.
>Can handle Benny in a bunch of different ways
>Can handle Captain Crunch in exactly one way
wew
Fallout 4 lost nothing by dumping skill points and weapon degradation. Emphasis on SPECIAL and the perks is much better
Dialogue system sux but whatever I can deal with it.
>>323454418
T b h I think I can kind of see why Bethesda got rid of the skill system and changed how S.P.E.C.I.A.L works.
Getting 10 of anything at the start of the game was broken, even in FNV (you could get 10 luck, go to the strip at level 1 and basically get 30k+ caps for free).
Not saying I like what they did with it, it's just that I can see where they are coming from.
>>323455014
I mean the new system works for sure, it just doesn't feel...meaningful, I guess? Looking at the perk chart I never feel any inclination to go above like, 6 in anything but Luck. And even then I don't need Grim Reaper because they debuffed it.
Granted all the games have been the same in that.
>>323453360
For one, it was the possibility to chose your own character, which a voiced protagonist with a predetermined background doesn't allow properly.
Also keep in mind how you have almost no options for anything. It limits roleplaying so much, which Fallout always was huge on. Even FO3 had it more than fO4
>>323455376
>For one, it was the possibility to chose your own character
But I mean the original ones did have templates (or was it only 1? can't recall). The only game that truly involved making your own character/story is New Vegas.
>>323455491
This.
There wasn't really any meaningful way to define yourself in FO1/2.
Which is why Fallout NV is among my favorites in the series -- your character is the epitome of a blank slate.
>>323451556
Casual
>>323456271
I neglected to mention that I do agree choices are very limited.
For example; I'd liked to have asked Kellogg questions, but instead my character just screamed at him.
Oh well, at least I got to see his life story and what made him a monster.
>>323456424
No, just telling the truth.
You cannot tell me menus and turn based are more fun than F3 and F4.
>>323456524
I have a feeling Bethesda just really doesn't like having that complicated of a main narrative. Fallout 3 was the same.
>>323452375
>hyperbolizing
Care to explain how there are anywhere near as many roleplaying options as there were in FNV then? How the progression system isn't riddled with bland +% increases and arbitrary level requirements? How the gunplay, with its spongy enemies, piss poor weapon variety, and lack of movement options is anywhere near as good as titles like Metro, STALKER, etc.? How the central conflict makes no sense thanks to the stupid or nonexistent motives of all the factions, or quests like Cabot House or Kid in a Fridge? What about the bugs that cause people to walk out of conversations entirely, prevent your weapon from loading in, or prevent your settlement from functioning? How all the quests save a handful are just dungeon raids with the occasional choice of who to kill at the end?
>>323456727
Yeah, whatever. Bethesda will be Bethesda. Fingers crossed for Obsidian getting to work with Fallout 4's engine.
>>323447729
Wait, I'm confused. Are these things bad?
>>323453360
Here you have it.
>>323450683
You must've gotten unlucky, I don't know anyone who's experienced bugs so bad that it ruins the game for them. You must be running the game on windows 95
>>323456846
Bethesda didn't make FNV.
You don't know what you're talking about.
>>323456956
Definitely hoping that Obsidian makes another one.
>>323456970
No, I'm saying that there are accessible forms of media that are still good.
>>323457002
Who gives a fuck about /v/ copypastas
These image macros are always bullshit.
If you have your own arguments, then make them.
>>323454062
>he doesn't know you can press select (or PC equivalent) to make the character "move" their arm toward the screen, making it use more screenspace
LOL!
>>323455009
Know what the dumbest thing about removing repair was?
There's still a fuckin' repair bobblehead and all it does is make power cores last 10% longer.
>>323457326
In general I find the way that they did bobbleheads weird.
But I mean that doesn't make it bad, just "weird."
>>323457219
>"I can't counter anything in that image because the guy was spot on in every point he made TWO months before the release of the game"
>"F-fuck you"
>>323457109
>Bethesda didn't make FNV.
I'm well aware. It still set a standard for roleplaying options and quest design that Bethesda failed to live up to. Stop deflecting.
>>323457219
>I can eat all of these hamburgers I want! If you want to show me studies that I'll have terrible health MAKE YOUR OWN!!!!!!
>>323453360
Fallout is not a magical place were civilization still doesn't exist 210 years after the war
Fallout is not a setting with fucking gigantic, clunky ass energy weapons that look like electrical engineering experiments instead of modern, ergonomic, mass produced weaponry from 2070
Fallout is not a setting with NUKES NUKES NUKES HAHA WHACKY NUKES GIANT NUKE BOT WHACKY
Fallout is not a setting where time stopped in the 50's
>>323457845
Please God make it stop
>>323457984
>implying theres a god
>>323457681
No, image macros on /pol/ and /v/ are hindrances to discussion.
Put forward your own beliefs or GTFO, kid.
>>323457803
You can't expect Bethesda to make the game like FNV. NV was very different from 3: it eschewed leveled loot/enemies, it focused more on quests and writing than a consistently interesting world, and Fallout 3 was an actually finished game.
You cannot compare NV to 3 or 4.
>>323457845
Shitposting will get you nowhere.
>>323457945
Who the fuck cares what Fallout is "supposed to be?"
It's a fallacious argument that "because it was this way, it should always be this way."
>they think it's shit because it's casual!
No, it's shit because of the complete lack of actual RPG elements. It's shit because it looks like a last gen game but still runs like ass. It's shit because the animations are still horrible. It's shit because it's on Gamebryo. It's shit because it's a bug riddled, lazy mess.
It's shit because it's Bethesda, and they have kept all of their lazy, buggy, ugly shittiness and removed all the charm, mechanics, and variety.
They are just phoning it in and milking the cows and getting GOTY mentions despite failing to do a single innovative thing in over a decade.
Oh yeah! Paid mods. Fuck Bethesda and their shitty games.
>>323458329
You seem like a basic /v/tard.
>my opinion is objective and they are literally horrible people
Grow up.
>>323458239
>Asks what Fallout was
>Receives answer
>WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT FALLOUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE
wew lad
>>323458676
>all anons are the same
wew reddit
>>323458581
I didn't say my opinion was subjective. I said Bethesda shits out lazily made games that suffer from being derivative, cobbled together messes.
Can you refute this? Will you actually try?
>>323458239
>Put forward your own beliefs or GTFO, kid.
Well, then that image macros has everything I believe a Falllout game should be, there you go.
I won.
>>323459041
>subjective
*objective
Opinions are subjective, obviously, though I don't think saying Bethesda makes lazy, buggy games that continually become more simple is an opinion. It's just a fact.
>>323458239
>dismissing a valid comparison of rhetoric as "shitposting" instead of actually defending the rhetoric itself
I guess surrendering to name-calling works if you physically can't defend what you think.
>>323457002
That autist was sopt-on.
>>323458239
>calls people kid
>and Fallout 3 was an actually finished game
Oh it's you again. Go shitpost somewhere else.
>>323450934
>muh roleplay
the game is the best one from all fallout games in every other aspect.
Oh is it that time again?
>>323459041
>I said Bethesda shits out lazily made games that suffer from being derivative, cobbled together messes.
>lazily made
The sheer amount of content in their games proves that they aren't lazy, they just prioritize.
>derivative
How so?
>cobbled together
How so?
>>323459140
>I won
>winning
you're literally a child lmao
>>323459163
>valid comparison of rhetoric
you're also a child
If you think your opinion is objective about the game, you are a child or a manchild.
There is no reason to say "FALLOUT IS SHIT AND YOU CANNOT DISAGREE OR YOU ARE CASUAL SCUM"
Unless you're a kid who thinks game journalism is corrupt and /v/ needs to stop it.
So I'll stop replying to anyone who refuses to put forward reasonable arguments.
But if you want to reasonably discuss the game, I'm all ears.
>>323459435
see above.
>>323458239
By your logic, I can't compare Fo3 to Fo4 since Fo3 has a tremendously different progression system, a greater focus on designing interesting, self-contained locations instead of venues for radiant faction quests, only had one way to progress through the entirety of the MQ, and had an obviously unfinished ending that they "completed" with DLC. Your qualifications for comparison are completely arbitrary. Argue the points or concede.
>>323459483
Oh wow. It really is you. This is what you do for fun, huh?
>>323459483
>calls people kid, child, and manchild
>"I'll only reply to reasonable arguments"
LOL
also nice strawman :')
>>323459483
they made a giant blank slate game knowing that modders could fix everything for them.
>>323459672
>>323459715
If you have reasonable arguments I'm willing to hear them.
>>323459581
FO3 and FO4 are made by the same publisher, FO1 and FO2 and NV were made by a different publisher with entirely different priorities.
>>323451803
>points
you mean opinions.
>>323454062
>>323453253
i think he is talking about not needing to actually open containers to see what's inside (that makes a lot of difference), better system for power armor and companions, mods, and the fact that every place in the game follows the same logic. It needs power, food, water.. in NV/3 you have cities in the middle of Nothing. Even a raider base needs supplies in FO4. Melee finishers were a nice addition, and blitz is interesting (even if it needs some work). There were a lot of improvements.
>>323459991
>gets called out for shitty rhetoric
>tries to take logical high ground
LOL
>>323457002
This guy hits the nail on the head, but the whole 50's theme was Bethesda's idea.
In the original Fallouts there was quite a lot of modern weapons, and energy weapons were ergonomic and futuristic -- they didn't really have the atompunk theme present in Bethesda games.
shoulder
fired
nuclear
catapult
wew lads we need to go whackier
got any ideas?
no i am not emil pagliarulo
>>323459991
>FO3 and FO4 are made by the same publisher, FO1 and FO2 and NV were made by a different publisher with entirely different priorities.
And I can't compare them because...you said so? Nevermind that they use similar mechanics, a similar skill system, the same universe, the same genre conventions etc.? Great. Thanks. Now I know the only standards I can hold a Bethesda game to are the ones Bethesda sets.
>>323460253
>>323460253
I actually like the Fat Man. And I mean, it's not entirely unrealistic -- the Davy Crockett was a thing.
>>323460181
If you have a reasonable argument I'm willing to hear it.
>>323460269
Well then you might as well compare Taylor Swift to Pierre Boulez by your logic. Or JK Rowling to Proust.
>>323460240
And the point he makes is that Bethesda doesn't gets the whole Fallout universe.
This thread sucks. What's everybody's favourite monstergirl? I like lamias because Alice.
>>323460431
like i would waste my time arguing with you, aside from telling you that i would never waste my time arguing with you
LOL
>>323460552
He mentioned the 50's thing like it was a part of the whole series.
>>323460747
Fair enough kid.
>>323460854
once again
>expects reasonable arguments
>attempts to demoralize any opposition because "kid"
lol
>>323459483
>The sheer amount of content in their games proves that they aren't lazy, they just prioritize.
They've been using the same engine for over a decade. They designed systems to auto generate quests. They copy and paste hallways and caves over and over. Their games run poorly. They are poorly animated ( woo moonwalking in third person! ). Hell, they hire 12 voice actors and have them voice a thousand NPCs.
They just make the same game over and over, but they get a little worse every time because modders will fix it, and then we'll try to monetize their works so we can make even more money.
>so much content
The Witcher 3 has way more content while largely avoiding the issues I've mentioned above. You can make big, expansive games that are polished, and not lazy hackjobs.
>>323460431
>Well then you might as well compare Taylor Swift to Pierre Boulez by your logic. Or JK Rowling to Proust.
I don't think Boulez composed country/pop hits about love and loss, or that Proust wrote low fantasy YA novels centered around magic and wizardry. Bethesda and Obsidian did indeed both create open world 3D Fallout RPGs, though, so there's a bit more to compare there.
>>323460767
No he talks that the future in Fallout 1 and 2 is like the one in movies of the future in the 50' full of technological shit and what-not
>>323461026
>"K-kid"
Pretty much any western RPG can be considered casual. There's nothing wrong with that but if you ever want to refine your tastes you should move onto jrpgs.
>>323461026
Once again
>can't provide an argument
>>323461167
>They've been using the same engine for over a decade.
False, Creation engine was new/updated for Skyrim.
The radiant quests are lame sure.
>They copy and paste hallways and caves over and over.
Literally only Oblivion.
>Their games run poorly
Not if you actually fiddle with them.
>Hell, they hire 12 voice actors and have them voice a thousand NPCs.
You literally are objectively wrong.
Please grow up. You're clearly just spouting /v/ memes fed to you.
>>323461275
Shut up, weeaboo.
>>323461275
I loved Fallout New Vegas. What's the jrpg for me, my weeb friend?
>>323461169
>I don't think Boulez composed country/pop hits about love and loss
Kill yourself.
I'm out, this thread has gone retarded.
At least hte first 50 or so posts were good...
>>323461376
How old are you? Be honest.
>Dad wastes a GECK to build a useless water purifier that dumps its water right back into the radioactive river
>Random wastelander in the Minutemen can build a fucking teleportation device out of scrap metal
wew lad
>>323461376
But Creation is a modified Gamebryo, it even has the same issues.
>>323461482
You first, you mong. It's not my fault you can't into analogy or argumentation.
>>323461376
>Literally only Oblivion
>Literally
Fallout 3 is a relatively small texture/geometry set being painted over a big land mass. You're going to tell me they just plug in hallways that are the exact same over and over? You can go play the game and see it with your own eyes.
>Not if you actually fiddle with them
Irrelevant. This goes back to " modders will fix it. " and it's bullshit. If you can't ship a game with ancient graphics that somehow doesn't run well right out of the box, you are LAZY.
>literally objectively wrong
Am I? Have you ever even played a Beth game? They do not have good voice acting outside of a few overpaid A listers they snag to do a major character role that is barely utilized. How many lines of dialogue did Liam Neeson do for FO3?
>please grow up you meme spouter
>>323461616
>GECK to build a water purifier
Wait. Isn't the GECK just a few seeds and some soil?
>>323461940
It's also a fusion power system and a holotape library. Prior to Fo3, anyway.
>>323461940
No in FO3 it is an extremely powerful matter manipulation device that is also really unstable and can blow you up if you "activate" it in Vault 87.
And it gets wasted to build a water purifier for water that wouldn't even be radioactive in the first place.
Not to mention that you don't need a fucking matter manipulator to purify water.
>>323447303
Literally all they needed to do was just make NV with an updated engine.
Then they fuck up the speech system, the writing, and all the RPG elements, skills, faction system, choices and the environment.
>Institute is literally The Master and Think Tank combined with no Mobius to keep their retarded destructive SCIENCE in check
ETERNAL REMINDER MOBIUS WAS RIGHT
>>323447303
