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What was the most embarrassing moment of AGDQ2016?
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>>
People actually watching it is pretty embarrassing.
>>
>alttp race
>console shuts down
>>
>>323444148
the event organizers trying to prevent autism stuff from happening is pretty embarassing. thats the only reason to watch speedruns
>>
The whole thing.
>>
>>323444148
I think they sang disney songs during the first or second day. Had to mute the stream and switch tabs.
>>
none, gdq events get worse and worse each time, it peaked with chibi and will never be that good again
>>
post this shit in the sticky or kill yourself already preferably by getting cancer QUICK.
>>
>>323445197
>post this shit in the sticky
Nah faggot I don't post in a dead thread with over 1000 replies
>>
>>323445540
then GCQ ok? thats my new meme speedrunning term
>>
all of it

who the fuck watches this garbage
>>
http://youtu.be/P9Yc__2_1ag

Crash 2 will always be the number 1 cringe of all agdq to me.
>>
Mario Kart 8 + the girl's terrible personality WOTS MOY TOYM... oh + her bitching on twitter about people saying she sucked

Stairs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iidQDjK3jfg
>>
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>>323446016
>>
Was there a bonus stream at all this year?

Remember that one year did they like 2+ days of bonus streams. Fuck.
>>
The furry suit guy, sitting next to DS Dad.
>>
>>323447031
Bonus Streams are kill anon, the fun times have been over for almost a year
>>
>Mew under the truck
That was just a joke cartridge right?
>>
>>323447240
Someone needs to branch off and make a new smaller event.

GDQ is long dead and might as well be a dangling corpse at this point. Did they even hit a million?
>>
BASICALLY
>>
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>>323446016
I'll never forget Tomba 2.
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>>323444324
wait

FUCKING WHAT?!

How the fuck did an SNES shut off during a race?
>>
>>323447576
It was a heavily glitched run, that might be why.
>>
>>323444546
yeah this prevented me from getting laid, i was really fucking upset about that one.
>>
can someone post that trigger
you know the one
>>
>>323447576
The other runner kicked it accidentally and didn't offer an apology.
>>
the Bloodborne run and ESPECIALLY the Star Fox 64 run with that fat slob giggling every few seconds
>>
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>>323447462
BASIC LEE
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Also the Final Fantasy run
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>>323447576
A racer kicked the others console and it shut off
>>
I UHHHHHHHHHHHHHH CALL THAT UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH GETTING UH MARIO KART'D UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
>>
>>323446692
This is amazing, people with voting rights pretend that they're doing something special by going up and down stairs endlessly

Fucking kappa chat has higher cognitive level than people in that room
>>
Anyone have webm of that mexican groping that ugly chick in the front row audience in between games?
>>
>>323444546
mulan song

>>323447385
yeah 1m200k
>>
>>323444324
link?
>>
>>323446016
>>323447557
>tell myself every year I wouldn't bother watching a gdq
>always cave in since I want to join the fun and was able to catch Crash and Tomba 2 live
No regrets those years
>>
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>>323447993
>>
>>323447763
I don't understand, why he wouldn't apologize after that.
>>
>>323447865
I'm really curious about this, who did this? And when?
>>
worst + most cancerous speed run ever in a GDQ
>>
BASIC LEE was okay, because of the chat always lighting up.
The real answer is Stairs. You can't have an 8-minute projected time, then fuck that up.
>Oops, we have to start over.
>>
>>323447576
Andy pulled some move off and was celebrating and stomped the floor, which pulled the power from his rivals SNES.

There's a webm of it floating around somewhere
>>
Half life 2 was awful, they basically invited shadow the hedgehog to run it. Mario kart 8 semeed fine compared to it.
>>
Blueglass is an annoying faggot desu

>>323444148
Every second the fat beard-stroking fuck was on stream
>>
>"prevent cancer foundation"
>mostly just put up posters that tell you to not smoke
>the money they do give to research is 40k per year for 2 years MAX
>which is in no way nearly enough to run a lab
>>
>>323448169
Postal 4 is look GOOD
>>
>>323448605
no im more reddit
>>
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>>323446016
>>
>>323448356
what.
>>
Am I the only one that likes SOME glitch to the credits runs? I think it is interesting to see how the game breaks with the users' own input.
>>
>>323448356

I dont know how to react
>>
>>323447709
We need the story, anon
>>
http://oddshot.tv/shot/gamesdonequick-2016011001356756

For people asking about the lttp race
>>
>>323448356
impressive
>>
>>323446016
>Crash fruit are apples
I always though they were peaches
>>
>>323447834
Arbitrary meme injection
>>
>>323444148
the people spamming cringe
>>
>>323448356
How do you not feel that?
How many times do you think this guys been caught?
>>
>>323448169
>Pissing like a sprinkler system

Max par
>>
>>323449181
>not having foreskin
>>
>>323449091
I like that that's what you took from that video.
>>
Acapella disney songs during Kingdom Hearts
>>
>>323448893
LOL
>>
>>323447709
I think watching speedruns is what prevented you from getting laid
>>
That lack dude choking on his Super Mario Bros speedrun and dying.
>>
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Bloodborne for me.
>be excited for the run all week
>see at the last minute that it's pre patch any%
>see the runner
>oh god no please not like this
>runner keeps dying trying to do epic skips
>each mistake costs a 45 second load screen
>runner is boring in general, couch guest (yes, one guest) only talks about the running itself and not the game
>run finishes over time
>mfw

L4D2 was pretty bad too.
>>
these threads
>>
>>323449091
They're Wumpa fruit.
>>
>>323448893
What a piece of shit.
>>
>>323444306
pity (you)
>>
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L4D2 was awful!
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BASICALLY
>>
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Le random furry guy was something that I didn't expect. Thanks, Canada!
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>>323450490
Sorry.
>>
>>323450490
>this is OK
meanwhile a disabled man in a wheelchair gets removed and banned from AGDQ because he had a twitch emote on his phone
>>
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>>323450597
The furfag works for agdq
>>
>>323449126
This.
>>
>>323446692
How the fuck you even going to "run" MK8? Solo running Mario Kart is called "racing really well" nigga.
>>
>>323450707
what a numpty
>>
>>323450772
so it's nepotism as well as a double standard?
really doesn't surprise me from the SJW cunts that run AGDQ now
>>
>>323450948
>Actually saying somebody should kill himself for posting a simple webm over a shitty video that requires a proprietary player
kek
>>
>>323448356
classic.
>>
People said the LFD2 speedrun was a hoax
>>
>>323450948
what?
>>
>>323447385
>Someone needs to branch off and make a new smaller event.
NASA is exactly that: http://www.speedrun.com/nasa/forum
>>
>>323451374
>hoax
I don't fully understand what you mean by "hoax"
but
have you got any evidence to back up what you're saying here?
>>
>>323450597
what
>>
>>323446016
What's great about this one is that while the run itself was 100% concentrated cringe extract, the reaction by the twitch/GDQ/tumblr community following it was ten times worse.
>>
>>323450597
do you have a source to this??
>>
>>323452024
someone posted a webm of it happening
I don't have it saved
>>
Bloodborne was bad cause the dude died a few times and it was on v1.0 so they just sat in awkward silence during the long ass load times
>>
mario kart 8 was horrible, the runner was bad but the dude commentating was the worst
>>
>>323452137
>I don't have it saved
Then fuck off. I don't even give a shit if you jerked off last night. You're fucking worthless.
>>
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>>323450656
fuck that bitch
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>>323452276
yikes
did I just trigger a tumblrina without trying?
>>
>>323450490
Seriously?
>>
I felt pretty bad for the guy who ran Super Metroid even though he's probably a dick
>>
>>323452259
the dude commentating saved us from the runner commentating, which would have been way worse
>>
>>323450656
SAVAGE
>>
>>323452365
>talks out of his ass
>can't back it up
>I better use my buzzwords
>>
>>323452276
Lmao we literally saw it happen on camera. Find it yourself, nobody here has an obligation to you. Those of us who saw it can participate in the discussion, you either find it or stay out.
>>
>>323447913
When?
>>
what was everyone's favourite runs? i really enjoyed the dragon age origins run, and the pokemon yellow any% glitchess. and of course the pokemon glitch showcase
>>
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>>323452365

Oh no, not the boogeyman.
>>
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>>323452636
sorry I don't spoonfeed retards.
>>
>>323452743
>>
>>323452743
>i really enjoyed the dragon age origins run
You're a fucking faggot.
>>
>>323450490
REMOVE HORROR
>>
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>>323452636
>>
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>>323452815
ahem
excuse me?
>>
>>323452442
>>323452259
>this is the worst place to get hit [fifteen times he said this]
>we're not actually doing any skips or interesting speed strats, and we'll nearly lose every race
>>
I didn't watch a minute of agdq. was there a Nuclear Throne speedrun? that would be interesting
>>
>>323453209
You wouldn't neede to watch a fucking second to know that you fucking retard.
Yes, there was.
>>
>>323452442
hardly, he kept defending her fuck ups like some betamax, he couldn't even talk properly
>>
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>>323450656
man that is alpha as fuck. you know he must hate her guts because he clearly saw her.
>>
>>323453278
fuck you faggot
>>
I see the cringe videos, is there a list of great runs with entertaining commentary?
>>
Battleblock again

>the game itself isn't good.
>run went on for way to long
>Stamper's commentary provided nothing at all
>"le bad connection"
>the runners were being faggots
>>
>>323452961
thanks doc
>>
>>323453680
Just about any run with PJ is great.
>>
>>323453680
anything with the midget had good commentary
>>
>>323453684
stamper was hardly there, and he wasn't giving a single shit about it.

he was taunting them for a while, and laughed at donations.
>>
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>>323446016
Holy shit, that was hard to watch. I hope Sonyggers aren't all like this...
>>
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>>323452961
Vivian is a infinity-chan creation?
I'm fucking confused.
>>
>>323448494
[citations needed]
>>
Super Metroid run for me. As soon as he died and said "Good thing I have a backup save!" I raged and closed the tab out.
Final Fantasy stairs% is a close second.
>>
Half-Life 2 and Bloodborne.

I haven't watched AGDQ before, was there ever another run before HL2 where someone used noclip or a similar cheat command? I know the Portal 2 run also used noclip.
>>
>>323444561
>started to watch the old gdqs to check if people are just memeing
>see the first run of agdq 2013
Fuck, now I want the old gdqs back ;_;
>>
>>323453910
>preventcancer(DOTORG)/our-work/grants-fellowships/research/
>>
>>323453948
>being mad at contingency plans
>>
>>323453948
was really happy to be arrived back home to see bloodborne and super metroid, turns out they both were pieces of shit.

I fell asleep like 10 minutes in.
>>
Most embarrasing? Not sure.
Best run was Stepmania though.
>>
>>323453680
F-Zero runs are always great.
>>
>>323454172
It's a terrible contingency plan that fucks with the whole point of a run.
>>
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>>323453891
no
after gamergate discussion was banned from 4chan by moot, Vivian adopted the infinity symbol into her hair clip design.
>>
>>323448292
I don't think you watched that Crash 2 run that was linked..
>>
Are they going to reupload those runs with fucked up audio on YouTube. They don't even allow comments on it to tell them they fucked up.
>>
>>323453948
>runner pulls out backup save
>continues to die again

Would have been good if Zoast was running
>>
>>323454329
>guy who holds world record of SM RBO fastest run
>is smart and made backup saves for areas he may fuck up in so that he stays on time and doesn't fuck the scheduile
i dont understand your anger
>>
>>323450490
DS DAD
>>
>>323444148
The lap sitting faggot.
>>
>>323454487
He died twice, once to RNG and the other to fucking up
im glad he used saves so we didnt have to sit and watch super metroid for 4 hours instead of the hour and 20 min he took
>>
>>323454150
Why did you even bother trying? You're desperately trying to insinuate that this charity is a scam, and you might be right, but you actually have to post something that proves it.
>>
>>323446016
Is this the one where he threatens to kill everyone at AGDQ?
>>
>>323450490
Fun fact: The furry is Brossentia's(a male speedrunner) boyfriend.
>>
>>323454526
You might if you read my post. Backup saves fuck up the whole point of a run, safety saves would be a whole better idea if you're scared of having a possibility of not doing a certain section.
It would be a different story if it was a crash, or saving wasn't an option.
>>
>tfw Cosmo will be at SGDQ
>>
>>323454778
I'm not saying the charity is a scam.
It's just that the research portion of their philosophy is a bit misleading if the receiving party still needs to get funding somewhere else.
>>
>>323454425
Now i understand the hate on moot...
Mootwo have an opinion on gg? will he ever allow discussion about?
>>
>>323454990
>I'm not saying the charity is a scam.
Of course you're not, because you can't actually prove it. You're just implying it really heavily.
>>
- Big Jon making up the shittiest excuse possible for his pot belly fetish instead of owning up to it.
- Final Fantasy stairs% failing horribly.
- slurpeeninja going over estimate two runs in a row.
- mitchflowerpower dying like 15 seconds into his SMB3 run.
- TMR failing blindfolded Battletoads hoverbike.
- Shadow Complex run where all they did was shill the game.
- The singing during Kingdom Hearts. They weren't particularly bad, but it just made me cringe. The woman was a pretty bad singer, though.
- TASBot's Mario Maker crap when they tried using Twitch chat interaction. Seriously, what were they thinking.
- Super Metroid chokes, having to resort to backup saves.
>>
>>323454943
don't you mean Narcissa
>>
>>323455008
moot always stopped doxing/raiding
i dont know why youre suprised
>>
>>323454943
>>323455148
my mind wanders.....
>>
>>323448359
Nah, he got killed by a enemy shooting him from off the screen
>>
>>323455148
my mind wanda's
>>
>>323455326
my mind wumpa fruit.
>>
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>>323455120
>- Shadow Complex run where all they did was shill the game.

You wanna see shilling, go watch the Axion Verge "speedrun". They spend the entire time talking about how amazing the game/developer are, telling you to buy it...

...Right until the Speedrunner fails and dies, then tilts off the face of the earth, dying over and over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkwFbsseBic&feature=youtu.be&t=34m3s
>>
>>323452823
You can't spoonfeed shit because you got nothing, you dummb homo.
>>
>>323455008
dont they have an entire board for it
>>
>>323448223
Well, what do you think?
Obviously he has some social deficits.
>>
>>323450656
What run was this?
>>
>>323455241
>>323455326
What is this meme?
>>
>skuj only behiind andy by 3 minutes despite andy kicking skuj's console causing it to reset causing him to lose 5 minutes of time

scumbag
>>
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>>323455536
kek, I wish I hadn't missed that one. The shitposting during this must've been great. The heavy breathing over the mic makes it so much better.
>>
>>323448893
Wow what the fuck he didn't even fucking apologize. How fucking hard is it to say "holy shit dude I'm so sorry!"?

I'm so fucking mad right now
>>
>>323446016
This spazzed out autist triggered so many people with his silly words. Fuck that, I like the guy. GamerPro11 did nothing wrong.
>>
>>323455536
Jesus christ they don't even hide it, the fucking MARKETER is on the skype call.
>>
>>323444148
The bloodborne run.
>>
>>323446016
That girl next him is probably his girlfriend.

This gigantic son of a bitch has a girlfriend and basically you are fucking stupid.
>>
>>323456702
he missed two jump hows is that embarassing?
>>
>>323448792
yeah its pretty cool how they figure this out
>>
>>323456150
I think that's Mitch, I'm not 100% sure but it's Mario.. Maybe Kaizo Mario World
>>
>>323455536
>>323456327
WHO THE HELL IS BREATHING SO HARD AND WHY?! WHAT THE FUCK LOL
>>
>>323448039
that is the protagonist, yes
>>
>>323457064
Died multiple times, slow as fuck loading times due to unpatched game, unpatched game makes it even less interesting because it's not easy to replicate at home.
>>
>>323448292
>not knowing that noir is the hero we need
>>
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>>323455120
>Super Metroid chokes, having to resort to backup saves.

at least he had backup saves for the two parts he knew would be difficult and admitted the run isn't valid anymore because of them
>>
>>323457395
How about you use some marathon strats instead of cheating?
>>
>>323448792
>AGDQ will be running a game you love
>You watch in anticipation of some neat tips and tricks
>Run is over in 2 minutes, just skips straight to the credits without any actual gameplay
>Now the schedulers consider that game done, not represented at all for the rest of the marathon
>>
>>323451853
I don't get this
>>
>>323457136
can you not see that big fat fuck right in front there? It's him.
>>
>>323457486
It's a fucking speedrun, the whole thing is cheating.
>>
>>323457597
some fit shit
>>
>>323457680
I'm sorry it wasn't clear for you, let me rephrase that.
How about you use some marathon strats instead of cheating at speedrunning?
>>
>>323457293
loading times is just what to expect from a ps4 game
>>
>>323450656
#SHREKT
>>
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>>323455120
>Singing during KH
Oh fuck, please tell me she wasn't singing simple and clean
PLEASE, I NEED THIS
>>
>>323453680
Alladin was fucking hilarious and had great improv bantz between the bros. The ending was genuinely hilarious. I can't stand e-celebs or Lp'ers at all, but I'd totally watch a show if these guys did it. They had great interactions and were way fucking funnier than Pewdiepie and the shitty Game Grumps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmldjfdhiFg
>>
>>323457723
what does it have to do with agdq
>>
>>323457503
This and the "just play the game really well super quick" types of runs piss me off to no end.

I like speedruns, but if I want to see the whole game very quickly or just the ending without any single gameplay I'd probably just watch some sped up youtube video or some shit.

My favorite speedruns are where the runners/community figure out interesting glitches for skips or interesting combinations that allow them to perform actions that the developers didn't originally think about.

Just glitching on some staircase for 10 minutes and then getting teleported to the credits is NOT fun to watch and doesn't interest me at all. Same as watching some dumbfuck race mario kart 8 for 2 hours and winning every single race, what's the fucking point?
>>
>>323456179
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHA1qxsLH-0
>>
>>323457486
It's not interesting if there's no risks involved.
>>
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what the fuck
>>
>>323457809
:^)
>>
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>FORGETTING ABOUT THE LEFT4DEAD2 LETS PLAY
>>
>>323457829
Nah, they sang Disney songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acNrr9kTL7s
>>
>>323457972
But there are risks still. Not to mention that that would be more of an argument against backup saves.
>>
>>323458039
Was it long or poorly played?
Please tell me they played on expert, I can't stand how often speedrunners choose a laughably easy difficulty just because it's faster.
>>
>>323458090

The gaston song was actually pretty entertaining. Rest were fucking shit though.

The opera guy has a good set of pipes but his vocal range is absolutely not suitable for that hercules song.
>>
>>323454329

It's a shame, but I think the organisers either heavily encourage or outright require it becuase otherwise you'd see runs just fail.

When you're performing an exhibition you need backup saves or other failsafes. It sucks but it's all just a showcase.
>>
>>323458090
flannel shirt guy is cute
c
u
t
e
>>
>>323457865

That fucking mario kart 8 run was just a fucking play through of the game. Why was it even there.
>>
>>323458090
>no music to go with singing
disgusting
>>
>>323458223

>They played on easy
>They died multiple times
>They didn't try to bunny hop because it "takes practice lol"
>>
>>323458090
THAT TONE DEAFNESS PLEASE MAKE IT STOP
>>
>>323458301
You could just use safety saves or other marathon strats. That way it would still be an actual run, but also be safer.
>>
>>323458090
bloodybizkitz voice is so comfy
https://youtu.be/GazOSDoJGLU
>>
>>323457986
That was pretty nice to be honest. I used to play SM a long time ago, so the whole showcase wasn't all that impressive to me, but that guy was great. Not to mention the fact that he full comboed it too.
>>
>>323456327

You can get it on the twitch vod, just get the Twitch Rechat extention or whatever it's called, gives you the chat from the time.

Was fucking hillarious.
>>
>>323447709
Did you get cucked by Bizkit when he sang with that one chick?! Pfffffft hahhahahahaha
>>
https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/408wa0/sabotage_during_the_lttp_race/
>>
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>>323457829
No, she sang that "Let it go" song from Frozen.

Yes, it was as bad as it sounds
No, they will never live that moment down
>>
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>>323458773
>reddit
>>
So, where are the new Noir crossdressing pics? He's my waifu and I demand them.
>>
Spikevegeta deadnaming Clarissa.
>>
>>323459130
They're no good. He looks like Michael Jackson.
>>
>>323459161
story?
>>
>>323459229
I don't care. Post them you faggot
>>
>>323450656
This guy's a fucking hero
>>
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Fire Emblem was fucking awful too. It was boring to watch.
>>
>>323459360
I didn't save them for that exact reason, so no.
>>
>>323458923
>simpsons reaction image
>>
>>323450656
For what purpose?
>>
The dude who died like six times during his Mega Man runs.
>>
>>323457835

That was legit awesome, thanks for that.
>>
>>323457395
the amount of money donated for the save the animals thing means he was probably forced into making backups for marathon safety
>>
>>323457986
>>323458445

Yeah but who gives a shit? This can't even be misconstrued as speedrunning. It was just a 25 minute block of "watch a guy show off his finger ddr autism".
>>
>>323458381
It's possible to die on easy? Even normal is a joke.
>>
mega:///#F!cc10iZ7I!6lsenuB_u1kvLukCOpDXSA

does anyone know if the great ace attorney is english patched? or is it still japanese??
>>
>>323457793
He has to start from the start. Why waste everyone's time when you know you're probably going to fuck up?
>>
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>Animemes
I guess the theme for this year is Memes
>>
Bloodborne was the worst run for me. Pre-patch any% is a trash category and the runner really, really didn't help.
>>
>>323459743
It wasn't supposed to be a speedrun. It was a showcase.
>>
>>323459861
I'm pretty sure there is a save function in Super Metroid. Just save at critical points during the run, so you can reload if you fuck up. Yes, that is different from using backup saves.
>>
>>323460008

I wish fromsoft hadn't patched forest skip. Shadows skip is whatever but forest skip really makes the game routing interesting and its not like casual players use it.
>>
It's really not fun to watch a Super Mario World speedrun 2bh
>>
>>323459402
I love Fire Emblem, but the very notion of speedrunning a strategy game is fucking retarded. It's like putting two turtles on a racetrack to see which one can complete it faster.
>>
>>323460014

At a marathon explicitly for speedruns...
>>
>everyone shitting on Straevaras for planning ahead and having backup plans in case of poor RNG or fuck ups
Kill yourselves, noone wants to watch someone play the same game for 4 hours. His first fuck up was 20 minutes in and his second was an hour in. If he started from the beginning he would have taken 3 hours and pushed back the entire schedule.

He already holds the WR for SM RBO speedrun, AGDQ is just an exhibition to show off the strats if you want a true speedrun go check out his videos.
>>
>>323460246
Hasn't been the case in a long long time.
>>
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>TMNT 4 1p2c
>Fucks up and uses one controller instead
Nice incentive faggots
>>
>>323460104
I really don't mind it. The current All Bosses route is very fun in my opinion.
>>
>>323460325
>Kill yourselves, noone wants to watch someone play the same game for 4 hours. His first fuck up was 20 minutes in and his second was an hour in. If he started from the beginning he would have taken 3 hours and pushed back the entire schedule.
And that wouldn't necessarily be the case if he didn't use backup saves, and he fucked up. There are better ways.
>>
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>Yoshi's island was any% race
>Possibly the most complex mario game speedrun was played in the shittest category
>>
>>323460427

Nice meme, dude. Bit rough on the edges, but it'll get there.
>>
Noir in drag was the best.
>>
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>>323460325
>>
>>323460578
The good category has been in a GDQ for like 50 fucking times. It really didn't need to be in there again.
>>
>>323460508
>it would be better if he didnt' fuck up
No shit, but he did. so he used back ups. He came prepared.

They raised 300,000 dollars alone for kill/save the animals. It be dumb to keep extending something people wanted to see.
>>
>>323450656
>7
why did he do it? It was funny as hell but i dont get why he would do such thing.
>>
>>323460665
>>it would be better if he didnt' fuck up
What? Who are you quoting? I didn't say any such thing you fucking dipshit.
I'm saying there are better ways to have contingency.
>>
>>323460656
>GDQ
>games done quick
>5 hours

And he didn't want to repeat that. So kudos to him for being prepared
>>
>>323460764
>>323460508
>And that wouldn't necessarily be the case if he didn't use backup saves, and he fucked up
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