can someone explain this scene?
Ganondorf finally fucking dies
Zant does too
>>323379996
This.
>>323379996
>>323380046
naive itt
>>323379996
But what does the Zant neck snap mean specifically?
I would, but you posted the non-canon Wii Version. I cannot compute this... noncanonacity that reverses the Triforces of Courage and Wisdom, warps the world, and makes the Hylian script illegible.
Nah, just kidding. I'll tell you. Basically it's a Japanese only thing. Zant and Ganondorf have what you call an Onmyoji and Kami relationship. I'll let an explanation from Legends Alliance take it from here:
"Many Onmyoji were known to bind themselves to a Kami in a life-binding partnership. In such deals, said kami would give power to the Onmyoji, and the Onmyoji would have to fulfill the kami's will. These partnerships have usually been benign, but there are stories of partnerships with malevolent deities and spirits that involve the Onmyoji ending his own life to slay his evil deity and try to cleanse his soul in redemption. There are no tipped scales in Eastern Mythology, if you have a connection that goes one way, it goes the opposite as well. If we apply this to Ganondorf and Zant, then that means that if Zant revives as long as Ganondorf is alive, then Zant can kill Ganondorf simply by refusing to resurrect."
>>323380851
Ganondorf was still alive and kicking. Zant, recently realizing how he was used, put an end to that.
>>323380851
Probably he was being kept alive by G-Dorf cock
>>323381772
This is a pasta right
>>323382474
Elaborate.
>>323380851
Zant was all about Ganondorf, thought he was a god. Zant eventually gets blown to fuck out, and realizing that Ganondorf wasnt a god and he was used and cast aside, uses magic to snap his neck.
(was it from beyond the grave? I forget)
>>323382636
It's fucking gay, overanalytical, and cringe-inducingly pseudo-intellectual.
I think Ganondorf's existence in Hyrule was somehow tied to Zant? Like Zant was the medium who was channeling Ganondorf. So when Ganondorf got wrecked, Zant finally had enough of his shit and mercy killed him.
>>323381772
Woah, that's awesome! Have a (you)
>>323379920
G needs Zant as a foothold to remain in the mortal world, links their lifeforce together
Zant knows G is evil but can't do shit to stop him, too weak of mind and body
G is weakened from the fighting with link and zelda, can't fully control Zant anymore
Zant kills himself to help stop G for good, G dies because no more foothold
Probably completely wrong but that's what I got from it.
>>323383349
Give me your simple, engaging laymen version then.
>>323383692
best explanation i've seen, here have a cookie:
( : : )
>>323379920
GUYS I JUST REALIZED KYLO REN IS EXACTLY LIKE ZANT
>built up as the main villain in the trailers but is really just a servant
>has a past relation to and betrays a main character
and most importantly
>has incredibly badass armor but looks like a fuckboy without his helmet
>>323383718
That wasn't even me. That makes 2 people who think you're gay. That's two points on the fag meter boyo.
>>323384076
Zant looks cool without the helmet, Adam Driver looks like a rat.
>>323381772
You mean to say, Zant became a conduit for Ganon's power and in return Zant was granted power. Zant then becomes a vessel from which Ganon can continuously revive?
>mfw playing through the adult parts of OoT and realising termina has already been destroyed
>>323385189
Do you mean like demonic possession of satanic worshippers?
>>323384131
You can't even not samefag properly.
>>323385615
Termina is a state of mind.
>>323383349
>I-It didn't even have any memes!
>>323385857
You got that right
>>323379920
ganondorf and zant had a pact where ganondorf would grant whatever zant desires
zant desires that they both die, ganondorf has to oblige
>>323386023
>mfw I realized each zone represents one of the stages of grief.
I know the "five stages of grief" trope is used a lot in media but still MM is deep.
dying upright is the coolest shit ganondorf did in the entire series
>>323386552
Too bad that MM3D raped it by removing most of the symbolism, thank god the painting is still preserved though.
>>323386023
I played it first when I mostly needed it, it changed the way I see vidya, too bad not many people get this.
Zelda U will have Ganondorf right? It's been too long since he's actually been the main villian.
>>323380851
He doesn't snap his neck. I don't give a fuck if there's a 'crack' sound effect or not, tilting your head like that doesn't snap it.
Anyways. Ganon was treated as a god by Zant in the Twilight realm and gained power through that. Zant, Ganon's biggest follower, gives him a questioning look as if he pities him. He no longer worships his god as Ganon kicks the bucket. The 'snap' sound is just to make the scene feel stronger, otherwise it'd come off as awkward or sentimental without it I think.
Would /v/ play Twilight Princess with the roles reversed?
>>323387296
If it wasn't shit. The sidekick had better be a snarky asshole like Hades.
>>323387247
This dude >>323381772 nails what I was trying to say
>>323387043
Hasn't it been.. One game?
And even then. Demise was very obviously implied to be the first incarnation of Ganondorf
>>323387296
We'd play any game despite whatever character the main character is.
We play Zelda for the feeling of exploration and mechanics, Link is just a variable, a blank one at that.
>>323387450
Disney Hades or Kid Icarus Hades?
>>323387043
>mfw he was in ALBW but he was just a fucking chump that got his powers stolen by the tranny main badguy
>>323387768either
>>323385617
No.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onmy%C5%8Dd%C5%8D#Onmy.C5.8Dji
Keep in mind before you read that, that the OP who wrote that says he believes the Japanese version also says Zant was part of the royal court (i.e. he was one of the potential heirs with Midna). The English version of TP is horribly translated so that might not be wrong.
When I first read that I did believe it was speaking of demonic possession and the sort, but reading closer and the differences between exorcisms and this relationship I don't think so now. If you're looking for religious analogies; I don't like to divulge this kind of stuff to interested non-believers, because it is more dangerous to one's life to open up to psychic phenomena that you know nothing about than to proclaim that you don't believe in anything (but are still a good person); but Edgar Cayce offers a lot of insight into spirits and the sort. However you should never take an interest in something that YOU aren't ready for. Take this advice from someone who learned a lesson that could make a Stephen King movie because I got cocky.
http://all-ez.com/beings.htm
If you had to ask me, I would say that this is where the idea of Kami comes from. Japanese people are the most psychic prone people in the world if for not more than the fact that their entire country is surrounded by ocean; and living near a large body of water amplifies your psychic powers (that's why Cayce moved from Hopkinsville to Virginia Beach). Of course, no hereditary, environmental, or biological condition makes one who they are. Japanese people tend to be smarted and more technical because in their past-lives they chose those paths. "The spiritual growth that one leaves this world with is the same that they enter with into the next one."
>>323386696
You slut, the painting is new in MM3D
who would you say is your favorite Ganon?
pic related for me: setup as main villain early on (so no ganon outta nowhere), multiple encounters with him each showing progression on links part and that man to man swordfight final boss was just awesome
>>323389012
If we're talking pure design I really do like the TP look but other than that you hit the nail on the head
>>323387296
No Midna no buy.
>>323389328
TP princess design was pretty good, its such a god damn shame he feels incredibly disconnected from the story at large
>>323389012
WW, although design wise I'm quite partial to OoT Ganondorf after he acquires the triforce of power
>>323389940
No bitch. I want Imp Midna. My teen self had many delicious faps thanks to her.
I wonder, the fact the WW ganon was starting to feel something similar to remorse and actually tried to justify his actions, how does that work given the whole Demise thing in SS?
>>323379920
when you nut and she still suckin
>>323390165
My theory?
It doesn't. TWW Ganon's speech was just a leftover from OoT Ganondorf that they wanted to incorporate into the story before they killed him off for good.
My proof is this picture and this interview http://www.glitterberri.com/ocarina-of-time/1101-interviews/ganondorf/.
This seems to show a not so evil Ganondorf in what must be the first of many prototypes for this scene because there are at least two others before the final version was shot.
>one trailer shows a better model of Ganondorf with a wry smile like Joker, as lightning strikes.
>another trailer shows that, but the lightning doesn't strike, implying it was recorded again.
>one screenshot shows Ganondorf grimacing in anger in this scene.
Then of course we have the final uglier Ganondorf with shorter hair based on Christopher Lambert. So as the "good" Ganondorf was scrapped there must have been several revisions.
>>323391481
Dat Mario nose.
>>323390165
The prophecy thing wasn't necessarily that the one with the spirit of the hero and the blood of the goddess would necessarily an embodiment of pure evil, just a reincarnation of his wrath.
So basically it'll always just be an obstacle in their path that exists to ruin everything for them.
Even if you do take it literally though, you could still kinda make the case that Ganondorf's hatred and jealousy of the Hylians is in and of itself Demise's wrath reincarnated.
>>323389012
I like TP a lot because it made him a man behind the scenes character who was hinted at from the very beginning and not directly shown until he was able to have what he thought was the upper foothold. I don't like how WW made Ganondorf anything other than a selfish piece of shit, OoT showed explicitly that he didn't give a damn about his people, was I suppsoed to believe that he really was doing everything to help the Gerudo? I don't buy it, I think he's just a liar and would say anything to get the upper hand.
>>323391481
you could always try to fit it in by assuming the original hero is dead and ww link is not a reincarnation or even tangentially related to him and as a result Demise's curse has severely weakened over time letting Ganon become his "own" person
>>323391481
atleast he gets his hair back once he picks up the ToP
>>323392028
I don't see as WW trying to redeem Ganon in any way, but rather trying to give him a reason for his obsession with Hyrule
WW Ganon is still full on evil, he's just also an old man who's had a LOT of time for some introspection.
>>323383596
2nd one of those looks the best
>>323387043
Why does Ganondorf have to be the main villain of every Zelda game? He's not like Bowser who's been around since the beginning, Ganondorf's first appearance was in OoT after all. Zelda feels like its at its best when it's a different villain in each game.
>>323392678
fucking this, why the fuck did they hamfist ganondorf into twilight princess? it should have just ended at Zant.
>>323390165
Motivations aren't necessarily one thing and one thing only. It could be that Demise fueled Ganondorf's anger and pushed him over the edge.
I really want to see pig Ganon in 3D, I hate how Ganondorf has become the de facto villain.
>>323393036
He is the holder of the triforce of Power, and I doubt we will see him again, we will probably get a reincarnation of him but ganondorf is gone.
>>323392678
Gannon/Ganon has been around since the beginning though.
>>323393036
He isn't really hamfisted, they hint at his existence when Midna first mentions Zant and you learn more about him pretty quickly after.
>>323393442
Ganondorf as an actual person hasn't, senpai, and even then the Zelda series never really centralized its antagonist around Ganon until the 3D games.
>>323392678
There's literally like 3-4 game he's not in.
>>323386696
>Too bad that MM3D raped it by removing most of the symbolism, thank god the painting is still preserved though.
I really have trouble differentiating the people trolling from the genuine nutjobs. For some reason, Zelda attracts some absolutely deranged lunatics, like the crazy fucker who'd post whole walls of fanfiction rants about how Koizumi was at some point some lead lore mastermind who set "subliminal" (I think the guy was trying to say "subtle") mega-plans for the future in all games up to MM.
Truth being that Koizumi wrote a manual backstory that was put in as an afterthought in ALttP, co-wrote LA, and had a role in the brainstorming for MM: The due was always more involved as a coder and had minimum writing credits.
>>323393603
>Ganondorf as an actual person hasn't, senpai, and even then the Zelda series never really centralized its antagonist around Ganon until the 3D games.
He was the antagonist in 2 out of 2 "pre-3D" games, and one of the ones he wasn't in was all about others trying to revive him. LA was the only game that ignored him up to that.
>>323394046
Koizumi came up with the 3-day system. Pretty sure credit for MM should go to him.
>>323392067
Except that he is the Hero of Time reincarnated. Ganondorf says it in the Japanese version and who would know better than him?
>"Yes, that exactly is the Hero of Time reincarnated.
>"I guess the time has come… Fine… Come before me"
He says this after you beat his puppets. Some people argue that he is talking about Link's skills, because of the way he phrases "that exactly," and term he uses "umarekawari" which is more figurative, such as describing an atavism of talents that runs down a family. But of course he says this because he's saying that only the Hero of Time knows how to fight like that.
>>323390113
Did your teen self post here too?
>>323394220
Ganon was. Ganondorf was not. There is a difference, fampai.
>>323394281
Nope the Hero of Time disappeared from that timeline. TWW Link was just a commoner who became the new hero through the trial of the gods.
>>323394239
Like I said, brainstorming. The team had already decided they'd be reusing the same areas over and over with changing events, Koizumi suggested the excuse they used to justify the looping.
The actual event and writing in both MM and Wind Waker were chiefly by Aonuma and Takano. Aonuma did the broad drafting in MM while Takano did the specific script writing, whereas Wind Waker was more of an even-split between them.
>>323394046
Literally everything you said is wrong.
And Koizumi was Miyamoto's right-hand man during the N64 era. He was supposed to be be designing a SNES remake of Zelda II, before he was pulled to work on the N64. They stayed up late together coming up with ideas and Miyamoto would call him in the middle of the night to talk about how imagines Mario should move. And then he made OoT. Even if he doesn't write Zelda anymore, he's had a hand in every single Zelda game since ALttP, either directly or influentially (through notes and other data salvaged).
10/10. Made me reply.
>>323394239
Miyamoto came up with the idea of a parallel world inspired by Jumangi and about to be destroyed though.
>>323394828
Nope. Sorry to burst your bubble but your fan-fic isn't canon.
>>323386552
>believing game theory
>there are some who don't like twilight princess
>>323395305
Sorry to burst your bubble but the whole premise of TWW is that the world was flooded because the hero disappeared and there was nobody to stop Ganon.
>>323387768
bueno...
>>323387296
>>323387768
Is there lewds of this? There should be.
>>323395419
I don't like TWW but I like Twilight, I have a friend who doesn't like Twilight but likes TWW. It's not unreasonable to dislike a zelda game if it doesn't mesh with you.
>>323395413
>game theory were the first one to come up with this theory
>>323395187
>Literally everything you said is wrong.
Proof. These threads are always full of shit everyone "knows" but nobody sources.
Nothing you mentioned contradicts what I said. He never had a writing credit in any game other than LA. OoT's writer was Osawa, Koizumi was on as system programmer.
Show me some source about him being this grandmaster planner.
>>323395413
> thinking game theory came up with that.
>>323395620
>implying they didn't popularize it
>>323395842
> being this new
>>323396023
>>323395842
>Game Theory
>Popularizing anything
They just repeat things that are known by everyone who give a shit about video games in general. It's just vidya trivia for normies.
>>323394550
Can you please explain? I thought Ganon was a form Ganondorf could take. Are they two different entities ?
>>323395468
Because he was sent back in time like it says in the intro, in the Hylian on the intro in Japanese, and like the King says at the end of the game as he is sympathetic because of the fact that he was wrong.
>>323386023
>Delusion.png
I hope you didn't name that.It's clearly a painting of when they were younger and still madly in love.
>>323383596
>Snorlax takes 20 years to stand up.png
>>323396323
No, they're not. The backstory of Ganon having once being a desert thief called Ganondorf was in as far back as "ALttP". The first game had basically no characterization beyond "Evil pig demon!" and the second game's plot was ignored completely in every single game that followed it.
>>323396361
How does that mean TWW Link is a reincarnation?
>>323386696
How so?
>>323396847
He's either trolling, or a complete idiot. The painting wasn't in the N64 game. Shit, the machine could hardly render such a thing in that amount of detail.
Oh hey, I knew it sounded familiar.
https://foolz.fireden.net/v/search/text/%22subliminal%20reason%22/
Holy shit, it's he same crazy fucker from this thread. How long has he been at it?
>>323397359
Yeah AGTC is annoying and should be a filter on site
>>323395662
Ok, fine you got me. I don't have proof other than this, but in this interview he says he came up with the concept of the Kokiri villagers and fairies, and named Epona (and he has to have been the one who named the Sages and Mido). As far as I'm concerned whoever makes the most of a game is the brains and director behind it.
Now, Miyamoto did step in and rewrite a fourth of the script in the last year of development, but OoT was only in development for 2 and a half years. So Koizumi contributed a ton.
Also, there's an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine that I've never been able to find online where he goes into how he came up with MM. It's called "Majora's Mask came to me in a dream."
>>323397457
Really, looking through that archive, this looks less like a troll and more like one Chris-chan-tier legit deranged lunatic. Has he been going around presenting himself as some sort of "eminence" on Zelda lore based on completely made-up crap for YEARS?
>>323397826
I don't know about an eminence but yeah, like a lot of people in Zelda threads, he bases his theories on inane shit that doesn't make sense and is assblasted over official canon.
>>323397826
>>323397457
He's right though. How did this end up on Link's wall in ALBW if he didn't destroy the evil in the mask in Majora's Mask? It contradicts Hyrule Historia!
>>323386552
>>323395413
Game Theory wasn't the first to come up with that. They just compiled it for idiots.
I believe in the 5 stages of Grief theory, but I don't believe the "link is dead" shit.
He's not grieving his own death. He's grieving for the loss of Navi. That's the friend he set out to find and in the end he had to accept his fairy was gone and move on, all that through Skullkid's journey and his interaction with his faeries.
>>323386696
>>323396847
>>323397053
I believe the anon is talking about the changes to the textures in the 4th dungeon.
It goes along with this theory that the Ikana were basically building the tower as a giant finger to the godesses, and part of that comes from the blocks you move in the temple.
The ones that have faces on them sticking out their tongues. In the old one, the tongues reached down to the base of the rocks (their junk) and at the end of it was the triforce.
Then the theory goes further to state that the plan was to use a mask at the top of the tower to connect to the Goddesses' realm and prove that the giants and powers of Termina were superior (the damaged alter at the top/bottom of the tower is shaped like majora's mask would fit on it).
But the goddesses said fuck that and fuck termina, and they flipped the tower upsidedown. Instead of opening a path to heaven, it went to hell and thus Majora was released into Termina
Don't really believe that part, but it's interesting speculation that was mostly removed in the 3D remake as I recall.
>>323397669
>he has to have been the one who named the Sages and Mido
Why? Where do you get that?
>As far as I'm concerned whoever makes the most of a game is the brains and director behind it.
And where is your indication that he came up with "most of the game"? He's not even the guy credited with the actual writing.
>So Koizumi contributed a ton.
Based on what?
I have no idea where you're coming from here. if I had to make sense of it, it sounds to me like you're starting from "Koizumi made most of OoT" as dogma and then making up a bunch of shit that has no ties with anything you've actually presented. How the hell do you go from "named Epona" to "made most of the game"?
>he goes into how he came up with MM. It's called "Majora's Mask came to me in a dream."
He had a dream of the moon falling. That's one completely different fucking thing than "came up with Majora's Mask". You're trying to make it sound as if he created the game.
Wait, hold on, are you the crazy fucker from above? Because that would certainly explain a lot.
>>323398237
>I believe in the 5 stages of Grief theory
Huh, really? Do explain. I've always been curious from the standpoint of a reasonable man how anyone can believe in this.
>>323398110
Because its a fucking easter egg, you faggot.
>>323398237
>this theory
Fanfiction. The word you're going for is fanfiction.
>>323398237
I've always liked to believe that the same people who made the fused shadows made Majora's Mask and after not being able to handle its power sealed it in the stone tower temple after they couldn't handle it, and that the Fused Shadows is basically a Majora's Mask done right before they became the Twili.
I also liked how the theory behind the Heroes Shade being the Hero of Time and TP Link being his descendant, and think it's cool that it's canon.
>>323392678
Ganondorf (not in demon/beast form) only appears in OoT, WW, and the last 2 hours of TP.
>>323398623
I want an explanation. Not your opinion.
>>323398237
It's more than that, way more, he is basically conquering his own self, skull kid might be a projection of how people see him, he feels different, he is different, he doesn't belong in hyrule, he saved them all but they all see him as a mischevious brat since no one remembers what happened.
>>323399187
"It's a fucking easter egg" is the explanation, you overthinking cunt.
>>323398512
Clock Town = Denial (That moon isn't going to fall!)
Deku = Anger (BURN THE MONKEY!)
Goron = Bargain (revive me plz)
Zora = Despair (no more singing)
Ikana = Acceptance (no more masks to hide behind, just himself)
>>323399285
You people seriously have issues if you believe this shit based on absolutely nothing.
>>323379920
Nintendo is bad at conceptual storytelling?
>>323398853
I like your first hypothesis about Majora's Mask being a Fused Shadow, even if I think it's wrong.
>Hero's Shade being the Hero of Time and TP Link being his descendant.
This is about as canon as cyan-hired Goku is to Dragon Ball canon. Which is to say, it isn't.
In before I start a firestorm. The characters in Dragon Ball Super and the new movies act nothing like the characters from DBZ. Not to mention they fall into a vacuum in between the defeat of Kid Buu and Goku's return, where he's looking for a protege in Buu's reincarnaton.
MAY I REMIND YOU THAT GOKU TOLD VEGETA HE COULD HAVE KILLED KID BUU IF HE HADN'T HELD BACK AS SSJ3?
>>323398512
Eh, I just think the overall idea fits. Not in a "coma theory" or "purgatory" way, just in a general "the themes of link's journey" deal.
>Link went off searching for Navi after the events of OoT
>he travels FAR from hyrule (it's not the lost woods, he's literally in a different country) and winds up encountering skullkid.
>shit happens, Link ends up with a reluctant new fairy and they have to quest through termina to save it and (as it later becomes clear) skull kid
>the main hub is Clock Town where everyone's dealing with the coming moon differently, but for the most part everyone's just ignoring it or trying to forget the peril. In other words, the majority of the town is in denial.
>The first place outside that is the dekus who are just fucking mad about everything and trying to kill the monkey instead of listening to reason. The swamp has also become toxic. Both of these tie to the general theme of anger.
>Second is the Gorons which honestly fits the theme the least, but overall the idea is that their land has been frozen and they keep asking others for help with no progress made. Loosely bargaining
>Zora's domain is slowly dying and becoming clouded by pollution so you can't see where you're going. Also, the zora bitch is literally in deep depression after the loss of her babies.
>Finally, you got the valley of death with the Ikana. The whole point of dealing with the king of the Ikana was for him to come to terms with how their kingdom is long gone. It's all about acceptance and moving on.
>Ultimately this comes to a head as Link takes on Skull kid and Majora, reminding skullkid of the friends he had that were worried about him (the giants and the faeries) before taking on this amazing heroic form and vanquishing the demon.
Link learns shit from his adventure, just like most hero tales. The lessons learned allow him to accept and move on with his journey. It's not to be taken super literally, just the morals and themes of the areas fit the idea.
>>323399902
>This is about as canon as cyan-hired Goku is to Dragon Ball canon. Which is to say, it isn't.
Are you this AGTC guy just flipping your name on and off for some reason? Because it's hard to believe there's another crazy fucker coming up with ridiculous theories because he's buttblasted about TWO different canons in two different franchises.
>>323399902
Hero of Time doesn't have a personality and we don't seem him grow old so it's entirely plausible that he was wise enough at the end of his life to think that Ganondorf could find a way to free himself, but no one could succesfully learn his teachings so he became a shade.
>>323399443
If I was making theories about Mario's lore, I'd say I am basing my thoughts on nothing, but Zelda, specially MM, uses a lot of symbolism to show you the back story.
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/zjW8tbx.jpg "latest[1].png")
>>323399902
>this nigga doesn't like Super Saiyan Blue
Man, I think you may be a bit more upset about that shit than you should be.I bet you don't like the HE OF GREAT NIPPLES either
>>323399945
>Both of these tie to the general theme of anger.
The moment you reached for "poisonous swamp means anger" should have been the first clue that you're going off rails.
>but overall the idea is that their land has been frozen and they keep asking others for help with no progress made
The guy they sent to get it fixed had just died a short while ago, and the Elder was en-route to fix things himself before he froze. Everyone else was waiting because he told them he'd handle it.
>Zora's domain is slowly dying and becoming clouded by pollution so you can't see where you're going
And now pollution means depression, like poison means anger? What?
>reminding skullkid of the friends he had that were worried about him
Which has absolutely nothing to do with what you're trying to spin here and is just typical friendship stuff.
Seriously, you're fucking bananas.
>>323399412
But you could say all that about any of them, except maybe acceptance.
>>323399945
Really the greatest support I've seen for this is your last greentext, and that they do show acceptance in Ikana. I can't buy the rest.
Oh well, thanks for explaining.
>>323399902
It's canon, Chris-chan, deal with it.
>>323383596
2 > 4/5 > 3 > 1 > 6
>>323400520
Explain the Tree inside the Moon, or explain the 4 dungeons inside the Tree, or the last fight inside the tree as well.
It might not be what that anon said, but Link isn't in the real world, neither the dark world, or Lorule. He lives in a 3 day loop, a number many deranged people get obsessed with, and lives in constant fear of the moon falling.
You don't need to do the same tasks after you've done them once, because in Link's mind he has been through them.
>>323399412
man, that Zora storyline was dark as fuck as a kid.
Then I played it again on 3D and it's still dark as shit.
10/10 would play MM again
![Screen-Shot-2014-11-29-at-11.37.02-AM[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/JSQ6vfP.jpg "Screen-Shot-2014-11-29-at-11.37.02-AM[1].png")
You finish that Twilight Map yet?
>>323397669
Wait, hold on, you're a fucking liar.
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Ocarina-of-Time-3D/Vol-2-Original-Development-Staff-Part-1/4-Where-the-Name-Navi-Came-From/4-Where-the-Name-Navi-Came-From-231748.html
>I came up with the idea that each person living there be followed around by a fairy
That was his shortcut for not rendering characters at a distance. It doesn't say anywhere that he created the Kokiri Forest or the Kokiri. In fact, that entire fucking interview just goes on and on about Osawa being the one who had to do the lore-based justifications for the concepts they threw at him.
I think I'm starting to figure out your insane shit. You just make shit up and hope nobody will check, right?
>>323400520
Eh, I kinda lost track of shit as I was going through that. Like I said, it's nothing really concrete.
In fact, I'd say >>323399285 may have it closer.
>MM link is the "I went back in time and my heroic adventure never happened" Link
>He's a kid that's lost his guide and goes off leaving everything behind
>Skullkid is a lonely child that ended up leaving his friends and then embracing a world ending demon in a decent into madness
>Link does the usual hero's journey, learns about letting go of some things and moving on with others
>In the end, gives it all to Skullkid, helping him understand what's important (fairly generic feelsy shit on that end)
>For link, however, all this just leads to him becoming the fucking fierce diety and spanking majora's spirit back to hell, basically becoming the hero he was meant to be/was before the time bullshit
>goes on to live a life of adventure and ends up as the hero's shade
It's all fucking autistic stretching of the imagination, but that's really all we got.
Majora's Mask clearly has more going on to it than other zeldas with its more dark themes of inevitable death, but Nintendo sure as hell isn't going to give any straight answers about it ever.
>>323401281
>bought the season pass for the dlc because I'm a gigantic faggot
>finished the first adventure map and lost all will to play, still severely underleveled to play any other maps with some degree of competence
please tell me they didn't patch out the rupee glitch
>>323401957
It's still in
>>323401206
>Explain the Tree inside the Moon, or explain the 4 dungeons inside the Tree, or the last fight inside the tree as well.
I don't have to. The fact that there's crazy shit on the moon doesn't mean that a bunch of crazy unsubstantiated shit, partly based on crap you remember wrong, has any goddamn validity to it.
>Link isn't in the real world
Are you actually trying to complain about crazy shit showing up in a Zelda game? They create another "alternate realm" every other game.
>He lives in a 3 day loop
Of his own making. Time isn't looping on its own, he's using the Ocarina to time travel. There's no Groundhog twist trapping him, you can simply not play the song and let the moon fall.
>lives in constant fear of the moon falling
Because the moon is fucking falling. That sounds like something to be afraid of. or not, really, because the game give shim so little character that you don't even know if he's scared or not.
You're just some crazy fanfiction writer way too invested in your own crap.
>>323383431
Yea, that's what I got from when I played it. I thought Zant was somehow the host for Ganondorf's physical presence since he was just a mass of energy in the twili zone. There's even a scene of him joining with Zants body. Zant is opening his arms and Ganondorfs Yellow head rams into his body
>that intimidating as fuck scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h23H0zYdHuY
Wasted fucking potential
>>323401910
>It's all fucking autistic stretching of the imagination, but that's really all we got.
The first clause is right. The second is pointless. You don't have anything, because there's nothing to have. The game is darker than other game, but you've concocted a completely stupid bunch of shit based on nothing to fuel a delusion that a game that was created by a super-rushed team has some grandiose deeper metaphorical underpinning in it. Especially when none of the games made with actual time to catch their breaths ever had anything of the sort.
You're nuts. That's all there is to it.
>>323380851
Ganondorf used Zant as a host.
Think of Ganondorf's soul using Cia as a host in Hyrule Warriors. Or him possessing Zelda before the final battle.
Zant snapped his own neck to kill Ganondorf, after realizing he was just being used like a puppet.
Also all of those "badass" moments prior to Zant going bonkers before the final battle reveal were actually Ganondorf possessing him, not Zant hismelf.
>>323395413
Actually Game Theory stole that theory.
From 4chan, of all places.
I was there in the original thread.
>>323401602
No. And also, how wouldn't he come up with the Sages when OoT began as Zelda II?
Also, doesn't that say he came up with the Kokiri like I said?
>>323402117
>You're just some crazy fanfiction writer way too invested in your own crap.
It isn't hard to understand, the game was built around a established lore, even before MM, they used the concept of "It was all just a dream", which means that it was AlttP Link's subconscious all the time.
>>323402427
Now, you talk like it is hard to come up with something that has a deep meaning, it isn't a new concept, far from new, it has been used so many times in so many things, books, movies, comics, songs.
But since you seem to think that you know what the game is actually about, tell us, what it is about?
>>323402691
>And also, how wouldn't he come up with the Sages when OoT began as Zelda II
No part of that sentence makes absolutely any fucking sense whatsoever.
And besides, considering the goddamn TIME TRAVEL part of the game was tacked in later on, any assumption about what HAD to be in the game based on how you claim it started is fucking stupid. The game started as a first person dungeon crawler like Ultima Underground for fuck's sake. They retooled the thing completely several times over.
>Also, doesn't that say he came up with the Kokiri like I said?
No, are you retarded?
>Koizumi: And not only the script, but the game mechanics benefited as well. The first location is Kokiri Forest. The village has lots of trees and lots of people live there, but it was difficult to display them all at once.
>Iwata: The Nintendo 64 system had limitations making it difficult to display many characters at the same time.
>Koizumi: I came up with the idea that each person living there be followed around by a fairy. That way, even if we just showed the fairies...
He came up with the idea of putting fairies on everyone, so that they could only show the fairies without having to render them at a distance and save on processing. Where the hell does it say that he came up with the Kokiri or the forest?
Is this why you say all this dumb bullshit? You're just incapable of reading? Or do you have some kind of crazy obsession with Koizumi to the point where your mind just jumps ahead of your eyes and draws conclusion before you finish reading? Is this why everything you say sounds so crazy or has ridiculous leaps of reasoning?
>>323403153
>It isn't hard to understand, the game was built around a established lore
The game was built around Aonuma's idea to reuse locations because they had way too fucking little time to develop everything. Every core writing concept was thrown about as random ideas to justify his design concepts, which coalesced in the final product. Everyone is a clone of OoT characters because it saved time on making new assets. Even the mask stuff is based mainly on mechanics they toyed with but discarded in OoT, and Aonuma thought they could recycle. No part of Majora's Mask was "carefully deliberated." The game itself only existed because Miyamoto had thrown Aonuma a hot-headed dare, for fucks' sake.
Your reasoning appears to be that the game MUST have some absolutely deranged ultra-deep metaphorical underpinning because you're crazy, nothing else.
>>323402635
>I was there a few days after the Death Mountain = Moon thread.
>I was on /v/ the night when sites were reporting that Twilight Princess was getting a sequel out of nowhere because it was revealed during a Gamestop meeting. Next day Link's Crossbow Training is revealed.
>I was there when a poster named Z revealed he was the guy who discovered the Ocarina pedestal after it started getting some attention.
>I was there when that anon discovered the Skull Kid burnt into the ground and nobody believed him including me. In fact I was the sap who made him get on his emulator and post proof. I'm sorry anon!!! I wish I could take back whatever I said!!
>I was there when art for Zelda Wii was revealed and Kotaku lied about being present at the show and said that it was Zelda standing behind Link.
>I had just come home from highschool track when Spirit Tracks was revealed, and an anon made a thread about taking a tour through all the 4chan boards.
>I was there when 48HourGamers became temporarily internet famous for being random college kids who decided to marathon Zelda games for 48 Hours straight. I was in their RE4 competition for a copy of No More Heroes. I got second or third place even though I turned off my camera a fourth way through the game because there was no way I could keep up after the first guy zoomed through it (maybe Cosmo).
BWUAHAHAHA!!
I can't believe how much time I've wasted on this site. What a time to be alive. I'm so thankful, that we live in a time where the manifestation of consciousness is such that even in our idle times we are progressing or participating in events of novelty that make our or other's lives better.
>>323399285
>It's more than that, way more, he is basically conquering his own self, skull kid might be a projection of how people see him, he feels different, he is different, he doesn't belong in hyrule, he saved them all but they all see him as a mischevious brat since no one remembers what happened.
Pretty much this. Link and Skull Kid are foils of each other.
MM is basically about Link conquering his own personal demons.
>>323403438
>first person dungeon crawler
Lies. Koizumi said that idea never got off the ground.
Also, chillax bro. I don't see what you're so worked up about. He was the system director, and the person who made the games as they are now. It's not hard to believe he wrote some of the story, or the finer points that hold it together such as the Kokiri. Their entire being is based on fairies. And the Sages were named after the towns of the game Koizumi was just making. What's so hard to interpret about that? If you reply that to me again, don't expect a reply back.
>>323403991
Again, it is not hard to make something that has a deep meaning. But if you think they didn't think at least once about the story or how it would develop around a single idea, you are lost.
Very lost.
>>323402691
Wait, what's more:
>He was supposed to be be designing a SNES remake of Zelda II, before he was pulled to work on the N64
>https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Ocarina-of-Time-3D/Vol-2-Original-Development-Staff-Part-1/2-The-Legend-of-Zelda-with-Chanbara-style-Action/2-The-Legend-of-Zelda-with-Chanbara-style-Action-231626.html
>Yes. Even as I was making Super Mario 64, I would write down memos of what I wanted to achieve with The Legend of Zelda. Then when I started making The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, I whipped out those memos and consulted them.
>Before Koizumi-san joined, (Jin) Ikeda-san6 and I started it just the two of us!
He wasn't even in the project from the start, and he was making Mario 64 before that.
>Koizumi: Yeah. You might say that, but before Super Mario 64, I had actually been making Zelda II: The Adventure of Link in polygons with Miyamoto-san.
>Iwata: Before Super Mario 64... You mean for the Super Famicom System?
>Koizumi: Yes. We were experimenting with a thin, polygon Link seen from the side and fighting with his sword. Chanbara was a pending issue at the time. We couldn’t really bring Zelda II: The Adventure of Link into form at that time, but I kept that desire to achieve a sword-fighting Legend of Zelda game until I joined this team.
This just says that he had been working on another prototype game. Because that's what Koizumi mostly did: programming. Where did this whole idiotic link that says he MUST have had to come up with the Sages base don this come from?
You're just COMPLETELY full of shit, aren't you?
>>323392678
The ganondorfs are incarnations of pig ganon tho
>>323404639
>It's not hard to believe he wrote some of the story, or the finer points that hold it together such as the Kokiri.
You have some crazy obsession with believing that the guy HAD to have done all this, right? Because you're saying that because he possibly COULD HAVE, that means he did? Even though there's no indication whatsoever that he did?
>Their entire being is based on fairies
The interview literally states that they were having problem rendering them all at once, and the fairy thing was the solution. They existed before that. Also this:
>Iwata: With regard to that, it is often said that when it comes to making a Legend of Zelda game, the game mechanics come first and the script later. Osawa-san, thinking up the script was your job, right?
Any reasoning that starts with assuming the writing was done first and the design second is doomed. the interview says right there that they kept throwing concepts and mechanics at Osawa and he had to come up with the story stuff to accommodate them.
>And the Sages were named after the towns of the game Koizumi was just making
Those names were in the original AoL that Koizumi had fuck-all to do with. He didn't come up with those names. He was making some polygon-based prototype based on AoL that got shelved. How the hell do you go from "he was making an experimental system to make AoL using polygons" to "the names present in the original game he didn't have any involvement with definitely had to have been his idea"?
You're either a troll, or just actually fucking nuts.
>If you reply that to me again, don't expect a reply back.
Have I triggered you by insulting your faith or some shit?
>>323405224
>The ganondorfs are incarnations of pig ganon tho
That's exactly backwards. What the hell, did you even play OoT?
>>323404687
Put on your tinfoil hat and go warn people about the Illuminati or some shit.
>>323405987
You ran out of words or something? Come on, don't be shy, tell me what the game is about.
>>323382362
>gerudo dragon
>>323399187
It could be a replica
Ok, no more arguing everybody. It's Sunday.
Make peace with your brothers and go home.
>>323406134
You are really this invested in that stupid theory that you have to validate it at all costs?
The game is about link trying to stop the moon from fucking over Termina and get back Majora's Mask.
There is no greater convoluted secret meaning to it, just as there is no such thing in any other game in the series made by these exact same people but with way more time to think things through. You seem to be assuming that pointing out your beloved theory is nonsense MUST be accompanied by proposing an equally deranged one to take its place, because apparently you've invested so much into this crap that you can't accept you've been wanking yourself to nothing.
>>323406895
Why do you keep talking like it takes years of heavy meditation to come up with a single (overused) idea?
It might be hard for you to understand, but the idea is clear. You might even think Link fights his own shadow just because it looks cool, right?
>>323379920
Zant just realized that Ganondorf used up all his nail polish and is pissed
>>323408194
>>323406895
BOTH of you. See >>323406773
There's church today! Time to call it a night bros.
>>323387296
That version of Zant looks like a fucking sergal
>>323379920
>guy doesn't even kneel down when he gets stabbed in his heart and dies
What an absolute monster
>>323379920
>Gannon
Save me!
>Zant
.....no
>>323392028
I always thought he wanted to resurrect hyrule because he wanted to rule hyrule, and not a big area of just water.
>>323379920
>yfw Kylo Ren is just the Zant of Star Wars
>>323392028
Coveting that wind could just be him wanting to live in a paradise, selfishly. He might not have cared whether or not it helped the gerudo.
