How come western rpg devs are so utterly incompetent when it comes to actual gameplay /v/? It's like they're unable to scale a game's difficulty curve to the PC's growth.
Almost every big wprg title in recent memory becomes stupid easy somewhere during mid-game progression due to unlocking a mundane power up that in theory shouldn't even be that strong yet it completely breaks the game because the enemies are usually a joke.
Examples include DA:I, where one of the classes unlocks a life steal and an attack that drains HP in exchange for huge damage. Using only these two attacks I was able to kill dragons that were 7 levels above me without any fear of dying.
Of course there's also the Witcher 3 which is so poorly designed that no matter what build you go you'll get something that breaks the game. Spin2win Igni spam, etc.
Compare this to Dragon's Dogma where the Strider/Assassin classes are able to unlock Instant Reset, a skill that lets you reset your character to neutral from almost any animation including recovery.
Sounds broken as hell, but because enemies are actually a threat in this game Instant Reset ends up another cool tool and doesn't turn the game into daycare.
i believe igni's problems were addressed in a patch
the reason it did like 3000 damage is because the burning tick did percentage of health rather than damage scaled with the initial burst
Why can't they just make a proper sequel origins
>>323343643
I love Dragon's Dogma, but using it for an argument of balance is laughable. You have to actively try to make that game difficult by throwing your fucking pawn off a cliff just to play solo.
>>323343643
>kurwas
>western
>>323344406
I admit the difficulty curve gets pretty fucked during midgame but at least BBI exists. There's no equivalent in western rpgs.
>>323343643
Hunter would wreck Geralt and then makea dollwith Ciri.
>>323346592
Well that's because Geralt is grounded and gets his ass kicked by everything under the sun.
The Hunters of Bloodborne are breaking the laws of physics every time they use the kirkhammer.
Western devs just want to make movies. And unlike wannabes like Kojima, they never learn to respect this medium for what it is.
>>323343643
>witcher 3
>western rpg dev
Western devs are good at making complex games like strategies, management sims and roguelikes. After they started to cater to the console crowd after the 90s it's only been downhill.
>>323347684
Insightful. Just goes to show that the japs create enemies that demand action from the player while bosses in WRPGs only exist as a glorified pat on the back.
>>323347684
I love the japanese for this, its so great. Souls games for example and Bloodborne especially is fucking awesome because of this. You can bait out certain attacks by doing certain things, they do certain attacks when you stand in different places, and they have dynamic stun/critical hit windows and steps. In Bloodborne you had the limb break mechanic where if you damaged a limb enough the boss would be stunned for a while, but after the stun they would gain new moves and abilities, like Ludwig starting to use his spray moves after one leg breaking, or Laurence stumbling down and not being able to jump so high when his legs break.
Not to mention dynamic boss music, great aesthetics and varied movesets. I don't think I've ever liked a boss made by a western studio.
>>323350498
Well, western cant into boss fights. They try to create a comfy and realistic routine while the japs are obsessed with escaping theirs and reaching divine climaxes.
>>323351079
Yeah western games feel slow and clunky as fuck after having played japanese action games. I was thinking of getting GoW3 but I don't know how I would handle it.
>>323343643
because whites are retarded as fuck
>>323343643
>using DA:I as an example
Dragon Age never had good mechanics. Besides, it's Bioware. Gameplay is secondary to story for them.
>>323351275
W3 its the first wrpg I have tolerated and finished. Hated the gameplay, the villains and much of the artistic design. But also statred to like Geralt and pick some small interest for other main characters. Mediocre overall with nice graphics and its unique atmosphere. Better than any Bathesda game. Wish I had bought it dirt cheap.
>Bloodborne
>Good gameplay
>Literally just watered down Ninja Gaiden 2 combat with even less variety
>>323343643
Dragon Age 2 was great.
>>323352235
>Ninja Gaiden 2
Hunter would rek gerault tbqhwyf
They're not, you're just a literal cuck Xenophile who hates yourself for being a westerner. Now kill yourself cuck.
>>323351079
That's probably why I can't get into their games
>>323343643
witcher 3 has pretty good gameplay
>>323352085
now there's an underwhelming game, whether its because I played dark souls for 5 hours prior or not I dont know, but DeS is was disappointing as fuck to me
>>323352235
>shitposting about games you have never played
Removing people like you would make this board infinitely better.
>>323352032
>Can't use bioware games because they're about the story
>Can't use bethseda games because they're about the immersion and experience
>Can't use W3 because it's supposed to be a book not a game
What am I supposed to use anon?
>>323351079
No, it's because western boss fights are a glorified puzzle.
>boss attacks
>dodge
>wait for opening
>expose weak spot
>hit weak spot
>repeat two more times to win
They took everything they knew from Zelda
>>323352235
I've played and loved NG2, even though I wasn't good enough to abuse I-frames to get me through MN. Having said that I think Bloodborne is just the natural evolution of NG. Ryu was never about combos but more understanding every enemy encounter. BB just steps up in that respect, especially with regards to boss fights.
why do weebs keep implying souls games are some epitome of gameplay?
Their encounters are good, they have SOME good boss fights, and they do very, very well in level design, but the mechanics themselves are nothing impressive
>>323352616
whitebois have this shit taste in gaming
this is why their games are like dogshit
>>323352616
If having a mini-game that's more fun than literally every other activity in the game qualifies as good gameplay then I guess.
>>323353158
mini-game was good but it was paced well so you didn't get how repetitive it actually got
I liked the game overall though, plenty fun as both alchemy build and a min-max of sorts I tried, easily my favourite action RPG since gothic 2 which is just the all time best
>>323343643
>It's like they're unable to scale a game's difficulty curve to the PC's growth
If the game's difficulty has scaled with the PC's growth, meaningful growth hasn't occurred. See: ESIV Oblivion
>>323353029
The first souls game that had amazing combat was Bloodborne, otherwise you're correct.
Witcher 3 enemies:
>tons of reskins
>boring attacks that consist of shitty swipes
>enemies only have 1-2 moves
>bosses are underwhelming encounters that are literally reskins
Bloodborne enemies:
>lots of enemy variety
>only 1-3 reskins in total
>each enemy has a unique moveset and animations
>>323353623
I only played des and das, I'm inclined to believe you that they did improve the gameplay but not by much
>>323353483
Not scaled artificially through stats, but the game gets harder/enemies get tougher as the player gets stronger. I thought that was obvious from the context of the OP..?
>>323352623
>Still plays this card after all the people who posted evidence
>>323353810
Again there's effectively no growth if that happens.
>>323352623
>Games you've never played
Literally the only "argument" that Bloodborne fanboys can muster, never seen a single one of you cucks give any good arguments defending the shit mechanics. I've played the game through multiple times including the DLC and it's a massive dumbed down step down from DeS and DaS, the only thing it does well is atmosphere which is something DeS did better and with some fucking subtlety instead of just putting Not Cthulu™ everywhere.
>>323353804
Them toning down magic and other variants helped them make the melee combat feel and play amazing, it really is great.
>>323353792
Dont forget
>bloodborne
>26 unique weapons, with 2 separate, unique forms
>each weapon has 14+ attack animations
>witcher 3
>1 weapon type, swords
>weak and strong attack + some special moves
>>323353865
its impossible to criticize any exclusive nowadays
I remember trying to tell people that DeS is NOT better than DaS in a thread and even posted pics of my ps3 & DeS, they just moved to another thread to yell lol u just mad cuz u dont play it
Granted 90% of people that parrot DeS have not played it, its obvious, almost like the ones that parrot deus ex
>>323353865
>>323354162
Niggers if you think Bloodborne is even close to being similar to NG2, you never fucking played it extensively. They play very differently.
>the shit mechanics
this isnt an argument fucko
>step down from DeS/DaS
well not in the combat, thats for sure.
If you really think BB was a step down in combat from DeS and DaS, you have shit fucking taste or never played it extensively.
>>323354003
You get better as a player. In turn enemies have faster swings, longer combos, wider hitboxes, etc. If you go back to an earlier area you see the previous enemies that were raping you actually have very obvious tells and you can dodge all their shit. How the fuck is that not growth? Is gaining a fireball that oneshots eveyrthing within 20 meters of you and does 10x the damage you did previously the only definition of growth to you?
>>323353029
>some good bossfights
>some
yeah gtfo with that. every souls game is PACKED with badass bossfights, even that shitfest DS2 for the most part.
>>323354162
You're entitled to have your own opinion but it's kinda retarded anon.
>>323354189
>Feel and play amazing
>Just feels like a slightly faster roll ring dex build always
>Entire builds have been scrapped because they wanted to put gimmick weapons in the game
>>323354469
>You get better as a player
No. That's not what we're talking about here.
>>323354620
>playing pvp
>in a souls game
>ever
Why?
>gimmick weapons scrapping builds
the fuck are you talking about
>>323354620
>a slightly faster roll ring dex build
Uh huh. Playing any souls feels like crawling through mud while two overweight americans are tied to your ankles after playing BB.
>>323354620
>posting year old webms of 2 shitters r1 mashing with awful weapons
Opinion discarded, not even going to bother reading your post.
Are you seriously implying that Japan aren't also incompetent when it comes to RPG gameplay? Nobody gets it right. People only play RPG's for the story and characters, there has never been one single RPG that has genuinely good gameplay.
>>323354620
>the same exact webm since first week of release
Is this the only one you have? Or maybe you should post the gargoyle webm too.
>>323354774
That's exactly what we're talking about? The fact that skill actually matters in eastern RPGs which allows it to have all these cool skill/growth options while still maintaining a challenge while skill doesn't matter in wRPGs so numbers are the only important thing?
>>323355005
>RPG
>Role Playing Game
>as in, you play a Role
How are souls games or bloodborne for example not role playing games? You play the role of a Hunter, a chosen undead, and so on.
Seriously, this term is so retarded and confusing to me that it hurts.
>>323354504
>every souls gae
-ROFL-
Another souls ''''''''fanboy'''''''' that never played DeS trying to act smug
Lets see
>phalanx
easiest, most underwhelming intro boss in gaming history, countless blue eyed knights leading to his fight are harder for a new player
>tower knight
Decent, but pretty much EXPOSE WEAK SPOT- the fight, what you criticized western game of being
>penetrator
All around good without biorrr
>old king allant
good as well
>armor spider
hide in corner and snipe, clumsy cramped shit fight
>flamelurker
decent, but easily abused and only impressive on casuals that didnt master the mechanics by then
>fools idol
lol, big surprise she ressurects, aside from that gimmick the fight is shit tier
>maneater
a shit tier version of bell gargoyles, if you actually didnt kill the first one by the time the second came into frey, you should not criticize any video game
>old monk
funny invasion gimmick, shit fight in itself
>adjuticator
shit tier
>old hero
decent, but easily grasped
>storm king
LOL, 16 agi lava bow, sniped to death, didnt take damage
>5-1
gonna sum them all here, SHIT
maiden astrea was decent but only because of the soundtrack, but routes were boring and underwhelming
COME AT ME SOULS FANBOY
>>323354430
Nice argument fuckboy, you wanna back any of those up?
>Went back to the retarded farm incentivizing health system from DeS when a better alternative was already created
>2 loading screens to get somewhere
>Have to spend 20 extra dollarydoos simply to get the game to be longer than 20 hours and actually have any weapon variety
>Grind dungeons with the same repeating maps over and over again
>PVP is dumbed down to all hell consisting solely of mashing and dash healing
>No build variety, literally no reason to use any weapon other than the starting weapons
>Bosses are piss easy because of the Whirlgig and Flamesprayer
>More retarded Gimmick bosses
>Choices of armors are Leather, Leather, Leather, Leather, White cloth, and more Leather
>No dual wielding
>Content from the game was cut to be resold as DLC like the Beast transformation
B-BUH BUH BUH IT'S OKAY WHEN MIYAZAKI DOES IT BECAUSE MUH REDDIT TIER UNDERSTANDING OF LOVECRAFT
>>323355034
Nope, I was talking about player character growth, not skill improvement of the player, which is why I greentexted that originally. See >>323353483
If you're the same guy who replied to me originally, you've lost track of the argument entirely.
>>323355005
People play Shin Megami Tensei for the gameplay. The stories and characters are one dimensional.
>>323355394
Aside from your somalian-tier grammar and post structure I actually agree.
>>323355496
>I read some /v/ complaints:the post
>>323355496
>>No build variety, literally no reason to use any weapon other than the starting weapons
>>Bosses are piss easy because of the Whirlgig and Flamesprayer
these 2 contradict
>>323356338
>Making the bosses, the only actual challenge in the game piss easy 1 way fights
>An incentive
>>323355496
>needing to farm health vials
How fucking shit are you?
>2 loading screens
which in total are 40 seconds
>meme spouted by /v/
The game has excellent weapon variety even without the DLC
>dungeons
completely optional, and fun with friends, but I guess you dont have any.
>PVP
irrelevant because it was always shit in every souls game, and it will be shit in 3 as well.
>bosses
well no shit they're easy when you overlevel a fuckton
>gimmick bosses
which ones?
>armor
Its not armor, its fashionable attire suited for hunters
>dual wielding
literally pointless, useless and retarded in any souls game.
>content cut
Prove it.
No, seriously prove it.
>>323356864
And you could trivialize most bosses in DaS with magic, what the fuck is your retarded point?
>>323357639
>trivializing das bosses
How do you trivialize something easy?
>>323357571
>souls fags can finally admit souls pvp is shit tier ripe turd shittier than playing a CI game
I can finally stop hating the fanbase
>>323355548
But you quoted the OP who's talking about skill obviously.
>>323343643
They're still under the impression that graphics > Everything when fact graphics are almost irrelevant.
>>323357726
By making it even easier, fucking duh.
>>323357838
Souls pvp is pretty fun. This is coming from someone's who's actually made it out of their pool at a FG tourney, making any counter arguments you have irrelevant.
>>323357982
I guess
>>323357991
Well from someone that was glad during wow s2 its shit tier turd rotten cunt, and my glad title makes any counter arguments you have quite irrelevant :^)
>>323358267
>WoW
Here's your (You)
>>323358267
Were you trying to put together a sentence there or did your brain just shut itself down from trying to form coherent thoughts?
>>323354835
because its fun if your good
>>323358697
>bad hitboxes, horrible connectivity, lag, hosts pulling the plug, unbalanced weapons, 2-shot pvp and evelyn gun spam is fun
Fucking how.
>>323358879
Sounds like you got walloped hard in PvP and never recovered.
>>323358409
Like I said, quite irrelevantyou wouldnt make it to 1800 rating soul shitter
>>323358624
You just need to ramp up your reading comprehension
>>323352670
If only they took the dungeon designs. The one actual great thing from zelda. Darksiders tried, but was a bit too simple.
>>323355320
Its not literal. It just reflects a fragment of pen and paper rpgs. Specifically stat management, not really the role play or anything else
>>323359559
I probably wouldn't make 1800 because I wouldn't be fucking dumb enough to do competitive pvp in a mmo in the first place.
>>323359387
I played it enough to say it was liquid shit on a stick.
Please wake me up when From makes competent netcode for once.
>>323360132
Yet you are dumb enough to do it in a souls game
Because most of the western games you're thinking about focus on other things on top of what the Japanese games you're comparing them to focus upon.
Now you can commence your petulant, endless and tiresome nagging about how only the gameplay you care about is "actual" gameplay that developers should focus on, but that doesn't matter in the least. You asked a stupid question with an obvious answer.
>>323360328
>I played it enough to know it was liquid shit
So that's a sum total of about 0.00 hours, hen?
>>323360663
I played about 600 hours on Dark Souls because I had nothing better to play, and about 20 in BB
So really, wake me when the netcode is better. Getting hit from 10 meters away is not fun pvp.
>>323360649
So you admit western devs don't care about gameplay and would rather make the water look prettier or whatever the fuck they focus on?
>>323360830
>Getting hit from 10 meters away is not fun
Yet you got 600 hours out of Dark Souls?
MUH DUEL fags are perhaps the worst facet of the fanbase.
>>323361128
Who said I cried muh honor? The only reason I played so long is because I liked killing gankers, which Bloodborne has very little off.
Look, BB is probably my favorite game of all time but its pvp, like all souls pvp, is incredibly broken and fucking boring.
>>323361612
>like all Souls PvP
So it's the same, but also worse? It's the differences, of which there are none, that make it so much worse and similar?
>>323361786
Cant you fucking read?
>The only reason I played so long is because I liked killing gankers, which Bloodborne has very little off.
During my 20 hours, I found not a single pair of gankers.
Bloodbornes pvp is only made worse by the chalice grind, the gun spam, the fact that healing is so incredibly easy... its just not fun for me.
>>323361612
>The only reason I played so long is because I liked killing gankers, which Bloodborne has very little off.
Lol holy shit. Bloodborne PvP literally revolves around people having to summon to be invaded
>>323357848
>PC's growth
>unlocking a mundane power up
>one of the classes unlocks a life steal
>no matter what build you go you'll get something that breaks the game
>Strider/Assassin classes are able to unlock Instant Reset
No.
>>323362664
Well thats not what I fucking found.
>go to any area other than nightmares
>no matches for 15 minutes
>a match with a low level host not ready or wanting pvp
>instantly runs to boss, doesnt even let me do shit to him
>go to nightmare
>solo fights all night.
hokay dude.
>>323363002
It's all about the DLC yo. I bought a PS4 just for BB because I was a huge fan of the soul series and I initially found it to be extremely underwhelming. Didn't bother beating Gehrman/MP for like two weeks once I reached that point.
The DLC ignited my love for the game though. It really forces the player to gitgud and all the weapons are insanely fun to use. You run into constant gank squads when invading nightmare church and fishing hamlet and the areas are great to pvp in. The rest of a game was a blast to play to with the new weapons.
>>323363002
Probably because you're a overleveled shitter. The fact that you didn't even know how invasion works really shows how much you played the game.
>>323363431
Well to be honest I haven't tried pvp in the DLC yet.
However, the game not having that many gankers is the least of my problems with the pvp.
>>323363551
I always go 98 or 110, dear /bbg/-kun
I have around 700 hours in the game, and I know how invasions work.
and I'm also saying that most of my fights in Dark Souls were against gankers, when in Bloodborne they were against solo players.
I don't like the pvp, I love the pve, fuck off.
>>323363748
>I have around 700 hours in the game
You said earlier that you only played 20 hours.
>>323364640
>I played about 600 hours on Dark Souls because I had nothing better to play, and about 20 in BB
This post was replying to your post, that said my experience with the pvp in BB must have been 0.00 hours.
Your post was replying to my post, which said that I had played the pvp enough to know that it was liquid shit on a stick. I also mentioned how garbage the netcode was.
So, in other words, I played 20 hours of pvp in BB, and 700 hours of BB in total.
Fuck off retard.
>>323363431
You love for the game was ignited when you spent $500 on it. You either like it or you wasted money.
>>323364979
>fumbling a save this bad
>>323365260
>lacking reading comprehension
No, seriously. Read the fucking chain.
in>>323359387
You said >sounds like you're shit at the pvp
in>>323360328
I said that I played it enough to know I didn't like it.
In>>323360663
You said I probably played 0 hours of it then
In>>323360830
I said I played 600 hours of pvp in dark souls, and 20 in BB
Then we had a little chain where we argued about gankers, then you called me an overlevelling shitter, then I said I always levelled to 98 or 110, which are the basic metas at /bbg/ and finally you went full on retarded when you lacked reading comprehension and implied I only played the entire game for 20 hours.
Fuck off retard.
>>323365907
Keep going.
>>323366093
Yeah, you keep trying to argue against my *opinion* and trying to prove my *opinion* wrong.
What, do you want a time stamped photo of my character select screen or something before you fuck off and realize that not everyone loved your shitty fucking system of laggy, buggy, messy and unfun tedium?
>>323366582
Keep going
>>323357571
>40 seconds of loading screens
?
>>323366742
Old Yharnam had some pretty damn horrific load screens on release.
There's a particularly infamous one from an early stream that was 40 seconds after dying to Djura. It became a hot meme not long after.
>>323366742
20 seconds to dream, 20 seconds to another area
at least for me its 20 seconds or so nowadays.
>>323366649
ebin shitposting m8, 10/10
>>323367080
Keep going.
Every thread that complains about western devs is made by a weeb.
>>323365132
That's the thing though. I was getting shit stomped throughout the entire game. Amelia took my a million tries and it felt like I was running through areas instead of taking the time to enjoy them.
The DLC made me good enough that I was able to revisit the game a second time and really take everything in. Went from a 7/10 - 10/10 for me.
>>323367929
And they always compare two things that aren't similar in any way.
>>323368545
>two action RPGs
>not similar
K m8
>>323367929
I've literally never watched an episode of anime, read a page of manga, or masturbated to online pornography though.
>>323368695
One is all action, the other one is pretty much all story.
You know a hack&slash is also an ARPG? What you call them doesn't matter.
>>323369106
>You know a hack&slash is also an ARPG?
It's not an RPG unless it has character management.
