fucking dark souls 2
>b-team adds ADP because they think it's innovative
It effectively lowers the skill ceiling by giving you i-frames (which should be predetermined like in DS1
what the fuck
Oh wow! Another DS2 hate thread!
You're fitting in now! Good Job!
>>322672547
But it starts you off with fewer iframes. DaS2 is both easier and harder than DaS depending on many various things, not only putting points into ADP.
>>322672650
>D-dont complain about the game please just buy the dlc goy
>>322672856
OP here, I agree with the varying difficulty between games, but what kind of idiot decides to put a skill into a game like Dark Souls that gives you iframes, you should either get a predetermined amount like in DS1, or just get the low amount you start with in DS2 so you have to get good at rolling rather than getting OK at rolling but having enough iframes to make it out unscathed
>>322672547
>It effectively lowers the skill ceiling by giving you i-frames (which should be predetermined like in DS1
hey, I hate ADP as much as the next guy but you would really have to put a shit ton of points into it to actually surpass DaS1's max. i-frames
>>322672650
It's a bad game. There's no conspiracy to make it seem bad. People are saying it's bad because it's bad. Just accept that you like a bad game; everyone does....
Save the frames not the animals. SAY HYOPE!
>>322672547
Dark Souls story : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lmEqpgg3B4
Dark Souls 2 story : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9oIi8a07Ac
>>322673471
Hee opi
Whining about ADP makes you a casual. Bottom fucking line.
Dark Souls 1 wasn't balanced. Demon's Souls was even worse. Rolling needed to have stat based requirements introduced to pull it in line with the rest of the game's mechanics. If you don't like ADP, you don't like STR, or INT or FTH. Just go play something else without RPG mechanics.you fucking casual
anywhere I can get the scholar of the first sin upgrade for cheap? Wish I had remembered it when the sale was still on...
>>322672650
It's not about fitting in, it's about venting our frustrations because DS2 disappointed us so hard.
Now fuck off with your shit taste.
Here OP watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9jrShSwjPU
>>322673779
>Whining about ADP makes you a casual. Bottom fucking line
or just nerf rolling altogether so you have to actually get good at it, half the iframes, maybe even only give quarter the iframes, but don't add a skill that makes the game easier for people who suck at rolling in the first place
Someone explain the lore to DaS2. Because I'm retarded. Or simply pretending. I'm not sure.
>>322673941
already watched all of them and I agree that DS2 had it's strenghts in comparison to DS1, and a lot of features I hope are brought over to DS3, hell I've played DS2 for 140 hours on different builds anyway because I still like the game for what it's worth
>>322672547
>Fight one of these fuckers with the giant swords
>one hit does like 70% of my 1800 something health and kills me
What the fuck. So they do more damage that a boss, poise means fuck all so you get stunlocked all the time, gigantic swing arcs with various delays. I don't even know why I bother with this shit, at least DS3 seems to have movement and combat more similar to 1
>>322673471
>bulge
mmf~
if you want to be pissed off about a stat, get annoyed at the fact max weight is its own fucking stat now rather than bundled in with strength or endurance. it makes no fucking sense and only serves as something to waste stats on.
no im not saying max weight is a wasted stat but you get what i mean surely
>>322674495
Don't the weapons in DaSII tell you their exact poise damage?
>>322674690
I completely know what you mean, I just chose ADP to cry about because it annoyed me the most
>>322672547
>Being surprised that FROM Software keeps trying to refine a system beyond a point it probably should
Just look at what they did to Armored Core over the years.
>>322674189
>Someone explain the lore to DaS2
That's way too broad a question. Ask stuff and you can get answers but right now you're just being a big whiny "spoonfeed me" baby.
Dark Souls 2 felt like a bunch of devs were just told a description of what Dark Souls 1 was and then they just remade the game from scratch based on their interpretation
>it's an RPG so that means it has stats, but it's also an action game so it has dodging....lets make dodging a stat!
It's like they completely missed the point of what stats even did in Dark Souls 1 and fundamental action game design in general.
Also tons of weapons because RPGs have lots of loot and stuff to collect! But it's all the fucking same thus again missing the point.
It's entirely fine in it's own right and Dark Souls 2 does feel like an old school RPG in that respect but it's just not...appropriate, to tamper with core ideas that define the franchise you're using the name of.
Literally Santier's Spear alone was the only reason I don't pan it completely, but it being awesome and fun to use only demonstrates how shit everything else was.
>>322674690
I completely forgot about Vitality.
Just another reason to hate the game. Equip load should always be related to stamina alone.
>Maybe if we just keep adding the pursuer the game will get better
>>322675132
>But it's all the fucking same thus again missing the point.
Oh yeah, that worthless R2 animation really makes up for everything. Even if it does have less variety on a per-weapon basis, it has much more unique weapons than Dark Souls ever will, and the unique weapons are actually useful this time around.
>>322675132
the weapons in DaS2 were fine
>>322675354
I wish that fucker actually pursued and not just appeared.
Will these threads stop once Dark Souls 3 come out? I'm really just tired of seeing the constant whining already.
>>322675132
>But it's all the fucking same thus again missing the point.
No its not.
Also, isn't DaS rolling were also tied to a stat?
Reading this thread, I guess I'm the only one who enjoyed Ds2
The lore was amazing, especially Lucatiel's lore, or the iron castle.
>>322675447
The weapons in DaS all had completely unique move sets for each attack. Unless you're talking about rare or boss weapons, most of the weapons in DaS2 had the same move set tied to their weapon class.
>>322672547
I don't know man. With low ADP, the skill ceiling goes higher because you have to roll more precisely, aside from just rolling, you have to go in the correct direction as well.
>>322672547
>It effectively lowers the skill ceiling by giving you i-frames
Isn't it the opposite?
SL1 DaS2 run is far more difficult due to lower stock i-frame it have.
>>322675846
>The weapons in DaS all had completely unique move sets for each attack
fucking lol
>>322673779
This is why you're not a game designer.
Core mechanics you get from the very beginning of the game are meant to stay that way the entire time and then you build a game around them.
A good example is the DS1 dodge roll which has about four different types linked directly to equip load which is something you can manipulate from the very start of the game and pretty much never changes ever besides a Ring that literally shows you're bouncing around like a fairy. You know rolls are different because your mobility changes to reflect it and there's a very clear divide between them, so clear it's in literal 25% increments. As you play the game more you begin to learn the timings of the roll more, and you improve as a player, you got stronger even though the mechanic stayed the same.
In Dark Souls 2, the roll's effectiveness is linked to a stat - this is never explained properly, the base roll you get at the beginning is shit and doesn't make sense visually, and then it keeps changing in effectiveness in a slight and un-noticeable way as stats change as you progress the game, or change across characters. When you have high ADP your roll looks the exact same as a roll at low ADP. It's confusing and pointless and you never feel like you're getting anywhere because you're getting hit by shit that you would have easily avoided at the same mobility level in Dark Souls 1.
You DO NOT take a fundamental mechanic governing the real-time action a game has and make its effectiveness hidden and secret especially in a game which previously didn't. Just because something is an RPG doesn't mean you have to attach everything to a stat and then hide that it's even related. It's garbage game design.
>>322673181
>Hur, you totally can't dark wood grain ring in giant's with enough stats, that's unpossible!
>>322673548
>story
go back to watching vaati you piece of shit.
>>322673181
>so you have to get good at rolling rather than getting OK at rolling but having enough iframes to make it out unscathed
Except the hitboxes are so fucking stupid that the game would be completely broken.
>>322675630
It'd be better if he would randomly spawn in your levels and slowly walk towards the player, but the game wouldn't tell you that he's spawned, he'd just be slowly approaching and you might catch a glimpse of him in the distance or he might surprise you
>>322675630
He pursues his dream of appearing all over Drangleic.
>>322676450
And if he actually pursued you if you ran away, rather than just disappearing into the ground, guy is real shit at his job.
>>322673303
it's a bad game when put against unrealistic expectations due to fucktards gobbling down trailer/e3 footage like koolaid and spending years building fanon, sequel expectations around and getting butthurt when none of it came true
the exact same thing happened with mgs v, fanbases are retarded
>>322674690
You level up way more to compensate for it. This isn't better or worse than Dark Souls 1, it's just different
>>322672547
>ADP
Nice meme stat m8.
I never put points into ADP, never had a problem dodging.
>>322672547
I too would have preferred to have seen it a static number like in DaS.
However it would be interesting to see a bigger loss in the rest of your character's performance if you chose to invest in ADP. So you could dodge better but do no damage. But even then if the I-frames became too crazy big slow weapons would never hit.
Regardless, last i played (at launch) netcode was garbage and people were teleport backstabbing and staggering all day.
>>322675132
>Dark Souls 2 felt like a bunch of devs were just told a description of what Dark Souls 1 was and then they just remade the game from scratch based on their interpretation
Well actually DSII was to be more open world than what we got; the DSIII currently being created WAS DSII. Miyazaki was directing BB and DSII at the same time, presumably Tomohiro Shibuya would stand in for him when he was working on BB. But Miyazaki was taken out of the picture and left to do full-time directing for Bloodborne. Then everything was scrapped, and Tanimura was put in charge, left to complete a half finished game. S'why the DLC was so good, they had time to do shit with it.
ADP is a good crutch for people who aren't as good at the game as the autistic souls veterans
Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
>>322675354
>pursuer
Casual filter.
>Dark Souls 1
>man, I'm bad at rolling. I'll have to take off some gear or put points into the stat that lets me carry more to get more invincibility frames
GOTYAY
>Dark Souls 2
>man, I'm bad at rolling. I'll have to put some points into ADP to get some more invincibility frames
BLUNDER OF THE YEAR. ABANDON HOPE
>>322676390
The hitboxes are stupid in all Souls game, Bloodborne included.
One of the main cause why DaS2 is getting all the flak is because of the low i-frame stock character have and they can't roll out on all attack as effectively as the older Souls game.
>>322676995
It also did other things didn't it? Like make item use animation faster, and potions faster?
Cant remember all of them. Climbing ladders?
>>322676308
It's a fucking i-frame you mong, none of the games tell you when you're suddenly invincible. The timing is only extended with ADP, so if you timed your roll well with 80 agility, you'd escape it just as you would with 120 agility.
And learn to press select for gods sake, the game directly tells you that agility is related to ease of evasion.
>>322672547
i-frames shouldn't even exist. it's a 3D game where you see your enemy from miles away and can avoid their attacks completely
>>322677318
Pretty sure it was just rolling and item animations
>>322672547
>b-team
You do know that b-team was like 90% a-team, right?
Get good you meme spouting faggot.
>>322676179
They did.
All weapons had a generic R1 moveset tied to their weapon class and then the R2 moveset would be its own thing, sometimes borrowing other weapon moves and mixing this.
Dark Souls 2 copypastes at least five weapons per type with slightly different stamina costs and range. That's it.
>>322677154
>Any Souls game
>Man I'm bad at rolling, I'll use my shield instead
>>322672547
Of course the points you spend on ADP could be better used elsewhere. It's a waste in my mind.
I'd rather hit harder, have more health and stamina, I can roll just fine without it.
>>322677143
Hmm too early, I'd say it's https://youtu.be/5xZn4rt7Niw
>>322677318
Don't know but I have never put points in ADP and I haven't had any problems without it.
>>322677143
>Casual filter.
Not really, he more just felt like lazy design after you see him the second time
>>322674020
The game is as hard as you want it to be
By that line of logic you might as well take out all magic, hex, and any form of ranged combat
If you don't like ADP just don't put points into it, its not like the game is gimping you if you don't
Jesus
Saw the DLC on sale this past winter extravaganza. Was on the fence since i wasn't sure i could get back into DaS2 due to having already beat it and my schedule.
Installed vanilla just to see if i want to get back into it. Logged in just now and all my saves are gone? dafuq?
Also pretty chapped i'm stuck on the 32x version of the game since i got the launch version and have to pay $$$ to get the upgraded/optimized one.
>>322677372
And at what ADP point milestones do the rolls visually change to reflect better I-frames?
NEVER
Thus everyone spent launch saying "wow ADP does nothing" because they would dump 30 points into the stat and do the exact same roll and still get hit because of wonky lingering hitboxes.
What does "ease of evasion" mean? Clearly it's not referring to the dodge roll because my roll is exactly the same! and so on and so forth.
A WHOLE fucking stat to blow your souls on for neglible benefits you can't understand, when they could just remove the stat and tie the roll to equip load thus ensuring people can't just stack heavy armor.
Which didn't matter because poise was removed with a garbage hyper-armor system that YET AGAIN nobody fucking understand and then they did realised it was really shit.
Changing basic mechanics, making their usage extremely fucking obscure and then hiding them behind stats. People complained about poise in DS1 because it was weird then, DS2 decided to take the cake completely. Great fucking game.
>>322678204
I did the something, apparently the game doesn't support Steam cloud so it doesn't keep your saves for some retarded reason.
So I bought SoTFS seen as I had to start over anyway, the season pass only cost me £6 from G2A anyway so it wasn't a big loss.
>>322678278
>Thus everyone spent launch saying "wow ADP does nothing" because they would dump 30 points into the stat and do the exact same roll and still get hit because of wonky lingering hitboxes.
False.
Nobody spent any points into ADP on launch.
>people even goes as far as making up shit just to shat on a game they didn't like
>>322672547
Old Hunter Bone and increased dodge fail damage was the superior alternative to this mess.
>>322672547
the iFrames and enemy speed are also tied to framerate so if you play at 60fps you have effectively 50% less iFrames and enemies move 100% faster, you can see it better with alonne knights
this is the true power of fromsoftware
>>322678278
On this note what is fuck is the point of i-frames to begin with? Why can't we have a dodge that just moves us a short distance quickly? Is it just an excuse to add normally unavoidable attacks?
>>322678717
I never saw any concrete proof that you got fewer i-frames or that enemies moved faster since nobody ever made a good comparison video with the two next to each other in slow motion. All we know for sure is that weapons deteriorated faster which the cheeky cunts finally decided to fix because the newer consoles could handle 60fps despite PC users pointing it out since day one
>seventeen fucking statues in Scholar
>seventeen
>17
>ten plus seven
>34/2 statues
Holy fuck who thought this was a good idea
One of these cunts literally dropped a shit helm and nothing else
>>322672547
>still believing the 'adp makes rolling easy' myth
it gives you 2 iframes (i.e. 60 milliseconds worth of invulnerability) way down the investment line (you get the second at 34 adp).
>>322679463
Statues?
>>322675354
Having him spawn several times at designated areas shows you how much better you've gotten with each time you encounter him.
>>322679639
Are you retarded?
>>322679795
that chart gets posted all the time and it's simply false. it's also ages old. the guy who did those measurements made some retarded mistakes, but it's too long ago and I can't remember.
the main benefit of ADP is faster item usage and elemental resistances.
>>322679665
Petrified assholes, like Rosabeth and Straid
They do nothing but attack you once you use a Branch, and are scattered fucking everywhere. One is infront of the Lost Sentinels, for example
>>322672547
>It effectively lowers the skill ceiling by giving you i-frames
It caps.
You're an idiot.
>>322679760
Where else does he spawn because I have only seen him twice. Once when you climb the ladder to get on top of the wall where the eagle flies him in and the second time where you fight him to get to Bastile.
Or do you mean the dark persuers?
>>322679795
>having 85 in a stat
I've not played DS2 yet, but did they inflate the stat distributions? Having 85 in a stat in DS1 is pretty fucking high. In fact, I remembered 60 being the soft cap for most attributes.
>>322680218
Original or SOTFS
>>322680419
85 is the Agility stat, not ADP. You level up ADP to level up Agility, which starts at 85
>>322680419
Agility is a special stat you can't put points into based on your ADP and ATN. If you picked the starting class with the least agility, you still started with 85
>>322680218
>on the genderswap coffin, next to the two ogres
>four fucking times in the Bastille
>twice in the Forest
>once in the Iron Keep
>two at once in Drangleic
>>322680419
You don't put points into Agility. Increasing ADP increases Agility and it starts at 85
>>322680419
If you were to put 85 into one stat you would have to not put any points into others to do it. Or if you were to put points in other stats and get one to 85 it would take most of the game to do it unless you grined for 50hrs.
>>322673941
>Actual, intelligent criticism of DS2
I am amazed.
>>322672547
Are these threads secretly shilling for DS3? I swear, 4 threads a day for the past week. Did everybody here got it for winter sale?
>>322680218
Four times in Lost Bastille. In a room after you get dropped off by the bird, one that's outside McDuff's, another on the roof after an illusory wall, and next to the bonfire after Ruin Sentinels.
>>322680924
its a shame he doesn't get as many views as he does, he makes great points and edits his videos well.
>>322678278
>And at what ADP point milestones do the rolls visually change to reflect better I-frames?
>NEVER
At what point do you know when your i-frames activate in Dark Souls? Again, if you time your roll perfectly, you'll get the same results regardless of ADP, you just have a little more lenience.
>What does "ease of evasion" mean? Clearly it's not referring to the dodge roll because my roll is exactly the same! and so on and so forth.
If you played a Souls game before then you'd know exactly what i-frames are, and ease of evasion suggests that. And just like other Souls games, lots of the mechanics aren't shown directly to you and are changed under the hood.
>>322680613
In the original I only saw him twice in the whole game and in SoTFS I only saw the main persuer and about 5 dark persuers in Bastille.
I'm only about halfway through SoTFS though.
>>322680705
See above, the dark persuers you fight aren't as bad as the main one, they are easy compared to the main one.
>>322677154
>DaS 1
>Man I'm bad at rolling
>Ill just go get the DWGR and become invincible
This is how it actually worked.
>>322680705
The forest isn't twice.
The pursuer that you can fought early is the same pursuer that you fight as a boss.
Having 4 of them in Bastille is logical since it was their office.
>>322681297
In the Smelter Demon room, don't know if I was just having a bad run but he seemed a lot harder than the ones in the Bastille
Did someone say persuers?
This guy definitely has a shit bucket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfo_sbhI5oY
>>322673941
that was pretty good anon
>>322678827
If there were no i-frames then enemy attacks would need to be less threatening (whether by doing less damage or having less reach or even both) so as to not be complete bullshit. Enemies would also need to attack less frequently, have even less HP, and/or do less stamina damage (when you block) because if you just had to constantly dodge and block while having barely any chances to do damage that would be bullshit AND tedious; practically everybody would be forced to spam high damage magic spells to not be garbage unless poise was also made to not be retarded.
tl;dr there's a number of reasons for having i-frames on rolls.
>>322681829
No we said Pursuers
>>322675801
>castle in the sky
>amazing lore
>>322673941
>slower more methodical battles that are almost always 1v1
dropped
>>322674495
They are slow as fuck, if you somehow can't dodge then just block as long as you don't try to block one of their combo moves.
Running past them also works.
I've started playing it, after playing Dark Souls 1, and I'm having fun.
>>322674690
It's because Endurance was too good when it boosted equip load as well as stamina.
>>322672547
>It effectively lowers the skill ceiling by giving you i-frames (which should be predetermined like in DS1
>which should be predetermined
>actually supporting iframes
Casual detected.
>>322681206
>If you played a Souls game before then you'd know exactly what i-frames areHow?
