So I was drinking with a couple of buddies yesterday and during that time we talk about vidya stuff.
The hot button debate yesterday was the increasing number of PC games that force you to buy a gamepad. These games are untolerable when you usa a kb+m, or using a gamepad is 1000x better.
I think that it's inexcusable, that the devs are just too fucking lazy and won't give the resources to make a control scheme or to adjust the controls for the PC, and instead just force me to buy a gamepad instead. It's a product of a poor port.
They think that I should stop crying and just buy a gamepad and It's perfectly okay for devs to do that.
I want to know what YOU think, /v/.
>>322431693
You can rebind keys for a reason
>>322431693
Buy a gamepad, poorfag.
>>322431693
just buy a pad you cheap fuck
just imaging myself trying to play Dark Souls games with a keyboard and mouse is enough to make me dizzy.
>>322431693
never played a game that required gamepad
>>322431693
>Namefag
I think you're a fucking nerd and should learn to accept some games are fundamentally more inclined to one controller or the other and don't function equally well on both.
FPS works better on keyboard and mouse but can function on a controller.
Hack and slash works better on controller but can function on keyboard and mouse.
No amount of time fixing the control scheme is going to magically fix fundamental problems with the controllers at doing certain jobs.
>>322431693
Please don't post pictures of my wife, it makes her nervous.
>>322431693
worst girl cebruz you fucker
>>322431693
I eat kiwi with the skin still on.
>>322432226
that skin is impossible to get off without losing kiwi, do what you have to anon
>>322431693
I like a gamepad for something like smb or reflx. But i use m+kb for stuff like skyrim or Something like nuke throne. What is problematic about gamepads?
>>322432374
thanks man
>>322432000
There are a lot games that require gamepad these days, though.
>>322432065
Yes, I know that but the thing is they can still function at least fine for all of them.
If they're gonna port something, at least make think of the best possible control scheme for it.
>>322431968
>>322431895
I already own a gamepad.
>>322432603
can you name one game
>>322432603
>i already own a gamepad
Then use it.
>>322431693
Most of those games that you think require a gamepad don't. Especially Dark Souls, get DSMfix and pull off bullshit backstabs in pvp 24/7.
>>322431693
I agree some games are lazy but many just don't translate well to kb+m.
I remember when Metal Gear Revengece was announced for PC port and the first thing I thought was "that Blade Mode is not going to work right on kb+m" and sure enough it was a spazy clunky mess that work best with a controller.
Much like some games are shit without a kb+m you will have games that are shit without a gamepad.
>>322431693
Depends on genre. Some play better with kb/mouse, some controllers, some joysticks, etc.
Its not lazy devs that cause platformers to play better with a controller or FPS better with a mouse. Its just the nature of the game type.
>>322432708
DMC.
Dark Souls.
To some extentNBA 2k16 which was the specific game we were talking about at the time
At least we all agree you can at least play fighting games nicely on a keyboard.
>>322432737
I do use it, but we are talking about this with the assumption we don't have any gamepads.
>>322431693
untolerable
>>322433362
who doesnt own a gamepad, in all honesty?
>>322433558
I know a 32 year old man that still lives with his family and was cut off money wise but is still allowed to live there that doesn't have a proper gamepad.Granted he is on a toaster PC anyway so I question what he can actually play on it.
>>322431693
Fuck off with the name and just get a damn pad. You can get a wired 360 pad for cheap as hell and all windows os's have drivers for it by default.
>>322433775
>32 year old man that still lives with his family and was cut off money wise but is still allowed to live there that doesn't have a proper gamepad
then he should have more pressing concerns than playing fucking video games
>>322431693
Some games just work better with specific input devices. Keyboard + Mouse isn't the universal best method.
>>322433558
>who doesnt own a gamepad, in all honesty?
and what about people like me, which doesn't like to use gamepads?
the shit is too uncomfortable half of the time
>>322433902
>then he should have more pressing concerns than playing fucking video games
>he is poor, the doesn't deserve entertainment
>>322431693
Gamepad is objectively superior for third person games and 2D platformers, this is an undeniable fact
>>322431693
i think you should stop crying and just buy a gamepad and It's perfectly okay for devs to do that, becausegamepads are better
>>322434150
>which doesnt like to use gamepads
you choose not to own a gamepad. what game literally forces you to use a gamepad on PC?
>he is poor and doesnt deserve entertainment
he kind of doesnt. maybe he should get an apartment before he worries about buying video games and peripherals
>>322434230
>2D platformers
I will give you that
>third person games
no
>>322434230
>2D platformers
Unless the game is designed around analog movement, that's definitely not true.
>third person games
That's really broad and not true for a good portion of them, especially the ones where camera control is important.
>>322434542
>you choose not to own a gamepad.
but it do own one, i just DISLIKE
>>322434542
>what game literally forces you to use a gamepad on PC?
>>322431968
DmC 3
for a start
>>322433902
Totally agree was just answering the question
>>322434150
>he is poor, the doesn't deserve entertainment
His parents are wealthy enough and they paid for his college years (which he drop out in a year) then they paid his technical school (which took him almost 6 years to finish) and even line him up work three times which he shot down twice and the third quit but lied saying he was fired(knew the boss and talk to him when he came into my work)
Hell his parents still try to make him work but he just wont do it.
The guy is fucking broken, not poor.
>>322434757
>own it but dislike it
then dont fucking use it
>DmC 3
is kb+m not an option at all or it it just less optimal? If the former, then it has to be a console port and if not, that's pretty stupid. If it's the later case, some games are better with controllers and were designed that way, regardless of your personal comfort.
>>322434775
>totally agree
at least someone in this thread isnt retarded
There are games with designs made specifically for a gamepad due to its ergonomics. Keyboard and mouse are great for shooters and rts but that's about it. I'd much rather play almost every other kind of game with a controller.
>>322434150
>he is poor, the doesn't deserve entertainment
You don't deserve anything you retard. Not even your next breath is ensured you could die in your sleep tonight. You could wake up to find out what creature comforts and income you have is strip away and you must now live off of what you saved or be in the streets.
No one deserves anything.
The smart get that and make a life for themselves
The stupid burnout and suffer because they were to attach/addicted to their creature comforts to brave up and make a life that will last.
>>322435093
its the worst port in the universe, you can't even rebind the keys
>>322435146
lol, i love you too anonyou deserve that much
>>322435356
>port
well there you go. you didnt have to have it in the first place, it was designed for a controller, and there is no reason you should have expected anything else.
>>322435146
I like you
>>322435356
No one deserve love anon
I have it but I'm not going to make some spiel it's owed to me or anyone.
Again, we are permitted nothing
If we want peace of mind we have to make it not ask others for it, you'll never get it.
I want to fuck Ryuuko.
Games are made with a specific controller in mind.
If you want the best experience, you use the controller the game was made for.
3rd person action games play like ass on kb+m.
Strategy games play like ass on a controller.
If you emulate Etrian Odyssey and try to draw the map with the mouse instead of the stylus, it probably is ass too.
>>322435782
>3rd person action games play like ass on kb+m.
Prototype 1 and 2 are perfect examples of doing kb+m controls right on a 3rd person action game
>>322435782
>>322435983
Are we counting tps in the category of third person action?
>>322434725
>Unless the game is designed around analog movement
you mean all properly made 2D platformers?
>>322436068
I was more thinking of DMC, Monster Hunter or Dark Souls.
>>322436145
>you mean all properly made 2D platformers?
Se you mean to say none of the SNES platformers are properly made?
>>322436145
No, some modern platformers are that way, some aren't. Doesn't affect their quality. I dunno why you didn't say 3d platformers instead, where it is actually way better with a gamepad.
>>322436206
I figured as much, because games like Dead Space and Mass Effect are third person but are primarily shooters and they play fine on kb+m. I've never played either with a controller but the seem like they'd be fine like that too.
>>322436490
what do you think he means when he says analog movement? because i dont think you and him have the same definitions.
>>322434150
>and what about people like me
Gamer privilege in a nutshell. "waaa, all games must pander to me!" Grow up manchild.
>>322431693
kill la kill yourself
>>322436752
Mass Effect's interface makes more sense on a controller but the combat is better with KB/M
>>322436752
I think of analog movement, the one an analog stick can produce (multiple intensities for each direction) as opposed to a directional pad which only gives a digital input(there are only 9 states).
>>322436493
I said third person games
There is not a single third person game which does not control better with a gamepad, shooter or platformer or otherwise
>>322431693
>PC games
But those games that you are talking about are primarily console games in the first place.
PC games are indie/early access games. Exclusively.
>>322431693
Is OP actually Cebruz? Why the sudden change in writing style and mannerisms?
>>322437473
These are my thoughts exactly too anon.
>>322437223
I honestly dont think the first game's interface makes any kind of sense on either.
>>322437473
See now I'm confused. My brain shat out and when I read "analog" i immediately thought of a directional pad, as "analog" usually refers to an older kind of technology as with clocks.
>9 states
are you counting not moving as the 9th state?
>>322437720
Yes, though that is not even correct strictly speaking, because on some pads you might be able to press up and down at the same time.
So if you take each of the 4 directions as either pressed or not pressed, you would get a total of 16 possible states, but only 9 of them matter.
>>322434150
Being entertainment does not mean something should be available to everyone.
If it isn't a necessity to live, then you're not entitled to it at all. Even then, if you can't pull your own wait you don't deserve anything.
>>322433558
Well, gamepads are pretty cheap these days. The shitty gamepads costs like $5 each.
>>322437631
But that does not mean that they should make a poor port, controls wise.
>>322437810
So I type poorly and English is not my first language, okay? You don't have to point that out, I know that.
Eh, it's kinda 50/50.
Some games just aren't going to work as well with KB+M without significant alterations, and that's fine. When a game is designed for a particular control method it's understandable that others might not work as well. And I do think pretty much anyone who plays on PC should own a controller at this point. One of the big advantages of PC is being able to use whatever peripheral is best for the job, and gamepads are pretty cheap and ubiquitous as far as peripherals go. Insisting on using KB+M for every game regardless of whether it's a good control scheme is just stubbornness.
However, it's a different story when it's clear that the developers didn't even give a fuck about making the KB+M controls functional. Regardless of anything else, KB+M IS the default control method on PC and it should always at least be an option. Like, Dark Souls was never going to be ideal on KB+M, but there was no excuse for it being as bad as it was. At the very least there should be proper key rebinding and other basic options. Anything less is just pure laziness, regardless of whether the game was made for controllers or not.
It could be worse. Remember all the sims back in the day that were literally unplayable without a flight stick? I had to buy one just for TIE Fighter.
>>322435550
That's just plain wrong.
Why port it in the first place if you did not design it for a PC?
Here's a better question:
What's the best gamepad for the PC?
>>322439468
you and I both know the answer to that. consoles have 30fps and lower. they port them because PC users bitch about it. when it gets ported to PC and isnt designed for kb+m they bitch about that too. if the game was designed around using a controller why the fuck would you expect the port to be completely redone to function ideally with a kb+m?
>>322431693
>PC games that force you to buy a gamepad
What game forces you to use a gamepad?
>>322439910
You port something because you want to have a good video game experience on a PC.
So that goes with the controls, graphics, and so on.
>>322439881
I just use my PS3 Controller.
>>322439881
360 controller is the "gold standard" so to speak but really it's whichever one you like the most, you can get most games to work with any pad
>>322439881
The xbox 360 pad is a very solid choice, except the dpad sucks.
I heard they fixed it for the xbone pad, but there the triggers suck or something.
The dpad issue doesn't really matter to me since I usually play games that would rely on it with either keyboard or arcade stick instead.
>>322440098
>>322440098
>You port something because you want to have a good video game experience
you cant be that naive, right? they do it for money. in any case, good experience = using the intended controller
>>322440239
You don't understand.
They do it for the money, and to get the most money out of it, they have to make the best video game experience with the options that they have and considering it's a PC game, in turn creates buzz and praise for the game by it's fans, and itself creates new fans who have never played the game yet because they only have a PC, which in turn is increases sales.
>>322431693
What games force you to buy a gamepad? Most of the ones ive seen recommend a gamepad but you can use kb+m. It's true however that these games are enjoyed more with a controller. I saw that you mentioned DMC3 as a game that forces you to play with a controller but is there really any other game?
>>322440532
to make the game the best experience they can it has to be played with the controller the controls were intended for. if you dont get that concept there is no hope of explaining my point of view to you.
>>322439881
I would vote PS4 simply in terms of pure functionality. You can do a lot of things with it that you can't do on other controllers.
>Easy as fuck to set up/use, just download DS4Windows and you can use it as easily as a 360 pad
>Can function as either a DirectInput or XInput controller
>Touchpad can be used as a mouse just in case you need it when gaming on the couch or something
>Touchpad can also function as additional buttons
>Can set up different control profiles and swap between them on the fly, even in the middle of a game
>Never have to fuck around with Xpadder/Joy2key/x360ce for games with finicky controller support because DS4Windows handles all that shit
Etc. It's really good. The only problem is that if you're using it over Bluetooth the battery life is only like 4 hours, which is pretty garbage. And if you're using the same controller on both PC and PS4 it's a huge pain in the dick, because using it on the PS4 will override the PC, so you'll have to remove it from your Bluetooth devices on PC, re-pair it, and restart the computer to get it to work again.
However it's really down to personal preference. All the functionality in the world doesn't really matter if you don't like using the controller.
>>322437720
With input methods like this, the distinction between 'analogue' and 'digital' is more one between variable input and binary input. For instance, a Dualshock 2/3's face buttons are analogue as it's able to sense the pressure applied, whereas a Dualshock 4's are digital as they can only register a state of pressed or not pressed. Of course, both inputs are digital in a more technical sense but that's not the way the terms are used.
>>322433362
those games do not REQUIRE gamepads, they heavily favor the use of a gamepad, but they are entirely playable without one.
I played DMC4 on my keyboard and it made MAX exceed timing super easy.
>>322442332
>I played DMC4
now play the first DMC3 port (dunno if there's any difference to nowadays steam version)
pro-tip the controls are
qwert
asdf
movement are jkli and can't be rebind
>>322442994
I did. the SE port was one of my first PC purchases since I had the base game on PS2. I played through it fine.
I bet you're gonna bitch about the original RE4 port too, you whiny cunt.
>>322443182
great that you are already nominating others shit ports anon
>>322443182
>I played through it fine.
with a gamepad right?
What game requires a gamepad?
I beat Dark Souls with KB+M, are you all just a bunch of casualfags or something?
>>322437810
>rename file
lel
>>322443507
no, I played it on my keyboard. If you're not shit, there's no issue besides learning to play on that control scheme. You must be 13 or 14 but back in the day, you had the control scheme you got, maybe a couple presets, that was it.
>>322443781
>If you're not shit, there's no issue besides learning to play on that control scheme. You must be 13 or 14 but back in the day
no you was the one so, no grow up adult can keep both hands so close all the time like that, without screwing your pulse
well i'm out, its too late to keep being hooked by your baits
>>322444226
>no grow up adult
what
It's easy to have your hands on that layout. Stop using a shitty laptop keyboard maybe? Hell, even if you have a laptop, turn it. How the fuck is that an issue?
>>322431693
The VAST majority of games are designed with consoles in mind, of course a controller is going to be way better.
Why the fuck WOULDN'T you have a controller if you're a PC gamer who plays more than FPS/RTS games?
>not having a controller for emulating in the first place long before Dark Souls came out
suck it up buttercup
Reminder that shit le shit is shit
>namefag ERP faggot tries to make a discussion
>>322431693
Some games simply require a gamepad in order to be played at their best, I see nothing wrong with this (expecially if said games were initially meant for console).
If a gamepad is needed to play, go ahead and just use it, otherwise it would be like eating steak with a fork; it works, but why not use a knife?
The best thing about pc is that you have access to all kinds of hardware. Using the best hardware for the job at hand is something that pc will always have over console gamimg. Gimping yourself by not using the best peripheral for the game you are playing especially when a game pad is like 20 bucks is retarded.
Console controllers are shitty. The little springs in them get worn out and then you get to go buy another hunk of plastic. That's one thing I remember from HUGE LIKE XBOX controller--the little stick's springs would wear down and then the stick would be permanently stuck veering in that direction. Your controller became garbage. That doesn't happen with a KB+M!
Valve made a sensible decision to put track-pads (won't wear out) on their controller, but all the console babbies are turbobutthurt over not having their cheap little knobs and cried about how the Gabecube Controller sucked. Well, I agree it sucked, but that's because I'm not paying $50 for a fucking controller to play all these shitty modern day console ports which demand I have one. Mark it down to $5 and i'll join the console peasant race and play some of these games like Dark Souls and Dark Siders and all the other games that are 'so good' but then immediately followed by 'oh but you need an xbox controller :)'.
>>322431693
Haven't found many PC games that I'd need a gamepad for but I have all types on standby just in case.
>>322440929
Yes, but my point still stands that the devs are just too lazy to design the controls for the pc. Yes, maybe not the best, but the "best PC experience", if you get what I mean.
Here's a question for you:
WHY HAVENT YOU KILLED YOURSELF YET CEBRUZ
>>322447752
what do you mean too lazy to design controls for pc? There's always controls for pc its just that the game itself is better suited for controllers. Take rocket league for example, it can be played well with keyboard and mouse but it can be enjoyed better with a controller, that is because of the gameplay and nothing else. some games were just meant to be played on a controller.
>>322431968
I actually played through DSI and II with kb+m without any problems, later I've tried the game with PS3 and xbox controllers and didn't really feel any improvement. Idk why people always bring this series up when they talk about games that need a pad.
DMC3 is a game you want to play with a pad if you want one, it's really difficult to play without one.
>>322448023
There's a point of "controller is better than a kb+m", and there's another point of "I'm just too lazy to make a better control scheme for kb+m so just play it with a gamepad"
That's the thing. A lot of games already look hard to put in a keyboard, yet people made it work.
Fighting games, for example.
>>322448232
Yeah i agree with you, the devs made keyboard work. However is a playing fighting games with a keyboard overall better than a playing fighting games with a controller? There are probably 0 games on pc that absolutely require a controller to work. Its not laziness its just some games will inherently work better with controllers.
Yes you can play fighting games with a kb+m but its objectively better with a controller.
Yes you can play soccer games like FIFA, PES, or even Rocket League with a keyboard but it will be better to play with a controller.
My point is that its not in the laziness of the dev for most of the time, its just how the game works.
>>322439881
360 gamepad is the best.
>games that forced me to use a controller
dark souls (too many buttons to remap)
dead space 1 (LITERALLY uncontrollable with mouse)
>games that feel better with controller
games that have lots of walking around maps so i can sit back in my chair and just move my thumbs instead of hunching over my keyboard like an ogre
games that are comfy so i don't need the better precision
simple platformers, ones with more buttons i use keyboard
Honestly this list is just what i've been doing lately, there are definitely comfy games that i would prefer to use kb+m in. but the one taboo is to never ever use gamepad in fps.
