>Air Standard Special
propels him forward, giving him a better chance at recovering, making him actually playable
>increase his ledge grab distance by a hair
>>322295817
Why buff him when you can just nerf Sheik and ZSS to make it the most any-character viable Smash game ever?
>>322295817
I dont main characters in smash 4. I play it for fun
>>322295817
less endlag
make guns not shit
>>322297572
What's wrong with ZSS?
Also, get rid of of bullshit mechanics that reward characters for being hit like Little Fag's KO, Cloud's overpowered mana shit and Furcadia's aura.
Add more taunts
>>322297572
because nerfing other characters wont make him any better, make him better and he can stand against the rest of the roster
>Marth's non-tip damage does 50% less damage
>Marth's tip damage does 50% more damage
Marth is perfect the way he is bit if I had to change him, I'd do the above to discourage bad players from using him
>you can now cancel out of d-air by jumping
>bring back Bowsercide because fuck Ganondorf fags
>>322297969
>Little Fag
>Furcadia
I know you think you're funny
But you know what?
You.[/spoiler)
Increase his hitbox range on his sword
Make his shield absorb up to 5 hits before breaking
Speed him up
Increase the length of his level 1 super
>>322297969
>What's wrong with ZSS?
she shouldnt be in the game as a fighter for starters
>>322298649
wtf, when was Papyrus added to Smash???
>>322298824
OP never said just smash
and the name is Sir Daniel Fortesque you dirty peasant
No buffs needed
>>322298929
damn son you took that bait like your mom gobbles cocks
>>322298824
gr8 b8, i r8 8/8,
>>322297572
>nerf Sheik
Yes, let's ruin one of the only top/high tiers who don't rely on grimy rage gimmicks
>>322299280
I guess so, who is Papyrus then
>>322299641
the skeleton guy from tumblrtale that talks in papyrus font
>>322299854
ahh ok never played it
>there are people who play Smash Bros EXCLUSIVELY for 1-v-1 fights while restricting 90% of the game's content
>there are people who REFUSE to play with items, even in a party setting while playing against ultra-casuals in 8-player Smash
I don't think I'll ever understand these people.
>>322295817
All they need to do is revert the nerf on his side special range
>>322298516
He's fine after his last buff
>>322298259
Bad change considering his range is nothing special anymore
>>322298949
A lot of buffs needed actually
>>322300314
I play all modes bur tourney settings are easily the most fun if neither you nor your opponent are shit
>2nd air jump cover more distance, and not just be essentially a shitty direction changer
>add a 3rd air jump
>air speed .87 -> 1.1
>jump squat 7 frames -> 5 frames
and we're online
>>322297969
I think ZSS is mostly fine. Yeah, Boost Kick is kinda strong, but whatever.
I'd make her jab frame 3-5. It has no reason being nearly as good as mac's.
Remove the invincibility from Utilt and down B.
Make Boost kick have slightly less knockback.
Call it a day.
Sheik is just fucked. She has so many little dumb things that if you nerf one of them she's absolutely crippled.
It's probably why all the nerfs she's gotten were insignificant shit like "-1% on back air".
They have no idea how to balance her without destroying her.
>>322300314
I main 4 different characters, because I like how they play, I play 1v1 all the way to 8 players.
I would like the items in the game if they werent crap. The Pokeballs are decent, a step up from Brawl, and the AT are good, bob-ombs and the items from the first game are all good, but alot make it too chaotic or they are just dumb
>>322300639
>He's fine after his last buff
no fuck you
>>322298516
Buff Tough Guy armour so it's not useless for anything but rapid jabs.
I'll start by nerfing Flare Blitz so he's less of a n00b cannon. So Side + B becomes Rock Smash again. Rock Smash can be performed a little faster and can't be interrupted except by Smash attacks.
>Down + A has more splash damage and wings have a bigger hitbox
>Down + B becomes Heat Wave or Blast Burn that just sends out a 360 wave of Fire to phase opponents (Rock Smash is good but I hate having a Down or Up directional attack that goes left or right, fucks me up every time)
>Grabs are now as quick as they were in Brawl and/or significantly sped up
>up grab (seismic toss) launch is doubled because why the fuck not
>Aerial Side + A slash attack hits harder with residual fire damage
>Aerial Back + A tail attack is sped up significantly
>Neutral + A becomes a single hit with a wing that knocks opponent upwards to set up for a combolike Project M
>Side smash has more launch
>Shiny and Mega forms become skins rather than Smash Ball
BONUS
>Smash Balls removed from the game
>>322300314
You're exceedingly ignorant if you think competitive players exclusively play 1v1s.
Give him his N64 dair spike back.
>>322300924
>I'll start by nerfing Flare Blitz so he's less of a n00b cannon.
>nerfing an already terrible move that's already been nerfed to shit
why
If anything, it should be buffed. Make recoil only happen if you hit something (wall, person, shield), just like in the source material.
>>322300314
even competitively I like to play with projectile items and Pokeballs on Low just to mix it up
>>322300314
item play is garbage in Smash 4, I'd play Brawl if I wanted to go all out with items.
>>322300816
He's the best heavy in the game tied with Ike right now
>>322301102
Flare Blitz is great. If you're not KO'd you can make it back to any stage plus you can phase the fucking shit out of your opponent. Any time they miss or make a mistake or set up an attack that takes more than a frame you just fucking Blitz them. I abuse the shit out of it.
>>322300760
Just increase the end lag on needles, done
>>322301247
>bowser
>better than DK
Ike's still probably the best overall heavy though and DK is easily the best superheavy.
>>322301416
DK is underrated as fuck.
Bowser buff when?
>>322301416
Ya he is better, his up throw to up air combo kills about the same time as dks and on top of that he has more options than dk
I just wish smash run was on WII U
Or had online function on the 3ds
I have hours clocked in by myself.
>>322301669
>he has more options than dk
How so? DK has better range, Back air is a fantastic spacing tool, UP B's super armour makes for a good "get the fuck off me" move, has cargo stage spikes, Donkey Punch, better spikes, faster/safer shield breakers.
Bowser's got some cool tools too, but I think DK has him beat.
>>322295817
Mac is meant to have a shitty recovery because his skill ceiling is stupidly high
>>322301950
Bowser had his fantastic oos up special, his recovery is better and harder to gimp, his jab and tilts are great, his fire creates good pressure on ledge
dk has better ariels
Their specials are about the same
Olimar needs a buff. They nerfed the number of pikmin he had in Brawl AND their damage output. It really only needed to be one or the other.
>>322302275
He's fine how he is, also one of the best zss counter picks
>more horizontal movement after recovery
>increase clown car defense
to make him stupid/top tier
>peach style flight
Fair needs to be a little less laggy
Bair needs the gap between each hitbox to be shorter so they connect better
Dair needs either less lag or startup.
Uair needs a little less start up
None of this will ever happen and the most I can expect is a worthless tweak to leaf shield.
For Palutena,
>make autoreticle either follow moving targets or come out faster so that she at least has a usable projectile
>Match the hitboxes for smash attacks to their animations or give them better windboxes
>Extend her dair's active frames by 1 or 2
or at least just give it a sourspot. Having a move that is only active frame ten isn't very helpful
>reduce endlag on fair so followups are possible
>>322295817
>making him actually playable
Casual detected
Your entire job is to not get knocked out in the first place
A lot of idiots actually try to gimp you, use counter as a better air recovery when given the chance
>the infuriating windbox customs are now standard
>fair has slightly faster cast animation
>reduce landing lag
>>322302647
Is it just me or does MM and most of the other newcomers assigned completely arbitrary or gimmicky specials that don't fucking do anything and are clunky to use?
>>322302726
Palutena's only needed buff is to switch her specials
She doesnt need both physical and projectile counters for fucks sake
>>322302832
It's not just newcomers. Peach has Toad for example.
>>322302275
You need to learn and appreciate the point of fixed order
and learn what each pikmin does
Fire for damage, Yellow for knockback, blue for throws, white for side B,throws or grab pummels, and Purple for both damage and knockback at the cost of range
As well as the added resistance Yellow and Red get from Fire and Electricy
LEARN
>>322301301
FB has 25 frames of startup plus however many frames it takes to actually get to them. People that consistently let you get away with using it to plow through attacks may just be retarded.
Not to mention it is inarguably the most punishable move in the game
>-70 on block
>Forces untechable Knockdown allowing for jab locks
>10 self damage.
The move is shit outside of some tech chase setups where you can use it semi-safely. And of course for recovering against characters that can't break the armor.
>>322302832
They are for specifics that not a lot of people take advantage of
it'll be useful for you to learn the properties better
>>322302965
Toad is strange but that's one devient from an otherwise sensible roster of moves. Melee and Brawl when I picked up a character I understood how to use them after one battle. But I can't make heads or tails of most of these Sm4sh newcomers. It seems to me like they just programmed the first idea they came up with for each character's specials.
>>322303161
This is what I was thinking but that just hooks back around to them being gimmicky if they're only used to counter certain other characters. I don't understand why many of their moves aren't just universal like previous games.
He's a nearly perfect patrician character, but it is fucking homosexual that every single attack kills your ass if you go off the edge, mainly his tornado shouldnt do this.
>>322303295
>It seems to me like they just programmed the first idea they came up with for each character's specials.
What moves are you seeing that are so complicated you don't understand them?
Everything's pretty straightforward to me.
>>322303458
Megaman's entire moveset to start.
>>322303295
>a character taking more than one battle to master is bad
>>322302832
Villager's are fine
Mega Man's leaf shield is trash
Wii Fit is just bad in general
Rosalina's gravity pull is basically yet another reflector sans the reflecting property
Pac-Man's specials all contribute to mindgames
Miis I won't be assed to remember defaults
Robin's are all fine
Lucina's are marth's
Dark Pit's are Pit's
Duck Hunt's exist for mindgames
Bowser Junior's projectiles don't feel natural with the rest of his playstyle, and I main him.
think that's all
>>322295817
increase knockback and damage
make him scary and intimidating for even a Sheik main to go up against.
since he is so slow and recovery is just ok.
Ganondorf should be a force to recon with, and making him a devistating powerhouse, at his current speed would balance things out perfectly
ether that or
speed him up and give his attacks priority over other attacks
>>322303707
What's complicated about his moveset?
He's got a rapid fire projectile, a projectile that passes through objects and can be thrown in 8 directions, a projectile that sticks to things and explodes, a projectile with a windbox, a projectile that spikes, a basic sword slash, a claw attack, a shield that's meant to block projectiles but is very bad at it, a sliding move, a multi hit spinning move and a shoryuken.
Which of any of those moves are complicated?
>>322303707
Megaman's attacks are all useful, the only oddball is leaf shield being completely useless
>>322303758
>Rosalina's gravity pull is basically yet another reflector sans the reflecting property
no, it's way better. It nullifies every projectile in a 5 mile radius and has zero lag.
>>322303982
>a projectile that sticks to things and explodes
fucking awful
>>322304051
I don't fucking know, guys, maybe I'm just getting old. I will say this, I do completely fine with my old characters (Bowser, Link, Charizard, etc.)
With a bit more knockback on the fireballs.
>>322304051
Leaf shield helps gimp low recoveries and allows you to footstool helpless opponents, it's not that bad.
>more shield stun on all of her aerials
>less startup frames on Pound
>Sing hits faster, four times instead of two, and lasts longer
>Rest always star KO's
>Up throw can either set up a combo, or kill circa 150%
Thoughts?
Fix his fucking grab already.
Also, give him a decent kill option that doesn't require super-hard reads.
>>322303758
Wii fit trainer is about abusing her bullshit hitboxes of Yoga poses, her back foot in her forward fucking spikes
>>322304154
>It nullifies every projectile in a 5 mile radius and has zero lag.
I will never be not mad at this.
>>322298949
Can needs a better knockback angle
Gunman any of the 5 need to be a kill move.
Smashes need to connect at lower and higher %s
Fair or any aerial needs a duck tipper which kills at low 100s.
UpB needs to be more like snakes' and does damage when recovering.
There fixed him to be B+ tier.
>>322299558
Sheik herself is a gimmick. Literally a character for beginners.
>>322304292
Yeah, Bowser's fire breath is really, really shit. Some arcing fireball would be cool.
>>322304661
Shotgun and Leader are kill moves
>>322304893
That's Mario
>>322303909
>le edgy ganondorf shitter
>needing a buff
get out
>>322304414
His grab is so horrible why isn't it at the very least slightly faster? You can't even take advantage of its range it's so slow.
>>322297872
>make guns not shit
A constant barrage of safe damage is bad now?
>>322304948
Are you fucking serious?
since he's from melee, give him L cancelling
>>322305221
I find those ovular bicolor plastic pills incredibly aesthetically pleasing in a way I cannot describe
>>322304292
>>322304897
>He doesnt build damage with fire breath
It traps people and can deal up to guranteed %20
Get gud
>>322305221
If you're going that way, roy and mewtoo would need it as well.
>>322303909
I'm sorry, but do you know how hitbox clashing works in the game?
>>322305221
Doc needs better recovery
You could Double Jump + Down B for a higher jump, but it's still weak
He's strong but getting back is hard
>>322305382
I got it
Roy gets dash dancing
Mewtwo gets wavedashing
Doc gets L cancelling
>>322305221
make his Dair less fucking weird and hes good to go
it continues spinning after the actual hitboxes end
>>322305424
I dont see what that has to do with increased damage and knock back
>>322305570
something something priority doesnt work the way you think it does
That said, doing more damage would increase the "priority" of his ground moves.
>>322305158
Get OUT and NEVER reply to me again.
so who else joins the Sheik and ZSS Club of "I Don't Give a Fuck About Recovery Frames"
zss's jab and Flip Jump kick come out on frame fucking 1, it's so funny
>>322304907
There you go. MAybe just leader, but shotgun should have more damage.
>>322305762
>Get OUT and NEVER reply to me again.
here is your reply
>>322302115
I never thought I would hear someone say this on /v/, everyone I read just says he's cancer and gimmicky.
>>322301081
>buffing a top ten
lol
>>322305737
so whats the problem?
>>322305909
Im not helping your statement
Shotgun and Leader ARE kill moves
>>322303320
are you fucking serious?
they nerfed the most retarded character in smash history, brawl metaknight, to being still top tier in smash 4 and you complain about killing yourself?
I havent played the game in a while
Apparently the cloud patch changed Dorf's neutral air entirely property wise
What exactly happened?
>>322305737
>>322305737
Yep, though wouldn't it also increase his shield damage, or is it seperate from the actual moves' damage?
Alright let's see
>Make Inhale be able to shoot back swallowed projectiles as large but fairly slow moving stars- explosive projectiles still damage him if inhaled
>Less lag on his dash
>Less lag on his forward air
I think that would do it actually.
>>322305880
>frame 1 jab
>huge fucking disjoint that makes sword characters blush
who thought this was a good idea?
>>322306076
Idunno, I wasnt the guy you orignally replied to. It just seemed you were uninformed about priority and I had to say something about it.
>>322306184
I said he's nearly perfect, it's just stupid that it does that.
>Up B
Increase active time by a bit even if you're mashing like mad
>Nair
Slightly larger hitbox, particularly around butt and lower back
>Grab
I want more knockback on my up throw dammit
>>322304414
if pac man had an even slightly respectable grab game he would be ridiculously strong
>>322306289
no if you fuck up with his specials you die, they are all recovery moves
can you imagine the garbage he can pull with multiple jumps and 2 recovery moves?
he can already kill super early with up air to up b strings, imagine adding a tornado in there
>>322306184
>still top tier in smash 4
fucking lol
>>322306249
Shield damage and regular damage are not separate except for shield breakers.
In previous games moves would do 1/3 less damage to shields.
In smash 4 they take full damage, technically making shields weaker than previous games (combined with the lower shield hp).
Give Climhazzard his body width in extra horizontal movement.
Make Finishing Touch an extremely slow projectile, like Samus's slow charge shot, moving in whichever direction he's facing. Same knockback, 15 frames of extra endlag.
Fix his shitty ledge snapping.
If you do any more, he's going to be hated.
>>322306470
metaknight is universally agreed as being top ten
he has the ability to kill as early as ZSS with easier set ups, on top of having great recovery and being fast as fuck
>>322300314
>there are people who play me with items on, thinking it will level the playing field some
>they don't realize that my item game is strong and they just get shrekt even harder because some items are OP as fuck
>>322306470
He is.
Meta knight is the only perfectly balanced character in the entire roster
>>322306590
>>322306684
I don't think the top 3 tiers combined have 10 characters in them
nerfs when?
>>322306751
what
>>322300314
I play both competitive and casual, and even competitive casual, aka not letting the randomness get the better of me since i learn how to adapt
But honestly i absolutely hate 1v1 even on competitive terms, team battles in Sm4sh is a lot more enjoyable and 3v3 is extremely underrated and needs to be used more
>Robin
Increase grab range
Decrease grab endlag
Decrease endlag on Arcfire
Add a hitbox surrounding Robin during Elwind
>>322306751
unless you segment off A as being A+, A, A- you're incorrect
>>322306751
>>322306470
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3u3d2o/wii_u3ds_collection_of_tier_lists_from_top_players/>reddit post reeeee
Well, what did you expect? Only the most godawful shitters post on /v/.
>>322304397
Any buff to the puff is good.
>>322306825
none for ZSS, as the game is optimized her horrid grab will be punished more
for Sheik increase end lag on needles
>>322307065
top 10 is far from top tier in this game
iirc the best characters are shiek, zss, pikachu, sonic and diddy with obviously shiek and zss being in the top tier
meta knight isn't as good as those 2, he's still good sure but he's not top tier
>>322307364
meta knight is definitly better than sonic, matched with diddy if not better
>>322300924
>Buffing the strongest up throw in the game
>Not wanting frame 5 super armor Down B
Nigga do you even 'zard?
Here's how you buff 'zard.
>One more mid air jump or increase the height of his jumps and his air speed by at least 30%
>Down B does a few points of extra shield damage and the hitboxes are always the same places.
>Reduce knockback scaling on Up-Smash so Up-Smash -> Up B is more reliable
>Reduce landing lag on B-air and N-air
>change N-air to better combo into tilts
>Make F-throw -> Flare Blitz into a thing until high percents because why the fuck not.
>sheik
Restore her 1.0 bair. It is pathetically weak and doesn't kill until 160+% from the LEDGE.
Un-nerf her uair and give her back her chain grab.
Remove the stupidly long end-lag on her needles. Currently she stands around like a fucking retard for 2 seconds after you toss needles, leaving you open to be punished.
>>322306252
Can we also fix the mega extended hit boxes on his side Smash? The ones that aren't actually even on his hammer?
This is the most annoying part of facing DDD
Give him his tailspike back and make nair a KO option
>>322308161
Shockwaves motherfucker, like in souls games.
>>322306252
his down air needs some lag removal
down B is also mostly useless, needed some way to cancel out of it
>Mii Swordsman
- Give him a rapid jab.
- The Side Special where he does a spinning flip should not leave him in special fall ESPECIALLY after hitting someone, and let it combo.
- Increase the fucking range of the sword, fucking Mii Brawler has more range.
Also let Miis be playable, even if you only can pick the defaults.
And
>Link
- Change his grounded Up Special to one spin that shoots out an aura, like Cloud's Finishing Touch.
Remove Gordo. Bring back the Waddle Dees.
>>322307927
I'll take the bait.
Kill yourself
>>322306332
Except that Rosalina completely fucks him over.
