>Fun is casting a front spell on the floor causing enemies to fall, then killing them with a sword or dagger when they're down.
>Fun is picking up a jug of oil and throwing it on an enemy, then igniting them with a fireball you control
>Not fun is channelling a firespell for 30 seconds until target dies.
>Not fun is spamming mouse1 to swing a sword and potting when health gets low.
Dark Messiah has better:
>Better combat
>Better story
>Better characters
>Better level design
>Better talent system
>Better traps
>Better crafting
>Better spells
>Better spell casting
>Better UI
>Better stealth
>Better varied locations
>Better sword fights
>Better interactive environments
>Better boss battles
>Better items with interesting properties/stats
>Better enemy AI
>Better enemy mechanics
>Better platforming
>Better secret areas
>Better puzzles
Why can't open world games compete with finely crafted linear experiences? Open world offers absolutely zero benefit, since quests are basically "Follow this extremely monotonous and boring path of copied and pasted assets and use/kill/take x".
>>322233635
frost*
Post-Oblivion Bethesda is not a good choice for quality open world games
>>322233635
>Why can't open world games compete with finely crafted linear experiences?
Because open world isn't designed with an end goal in mind, they exist for pure player agency. Comparatively, linear games are designed to lead the player along a path between setpieces, with less agency but a more tailored experience.
I won't argue that Skyrim is better than Dark Messiah, but I will argue that each was focused on different objectives.
>>322233635
Actually true.
>>322233635
DMMM is the reason I sold my 360 LOL
>>322234097
So you're willing to trade all those points, just to be able to roam around a world?
If you're going to quest, you could just play a linear game and pretend you're on a single epic quest line that beats every single quest in an open world game.
>>322234170
> playing dark messiah on console
kill yourself, you are disgusting
>>322234339
You trying to tell me that Fallout would be better as a linear game? Because we already saw what happens when that design philosophy reigns, and it ended up so bad that the fandom abandoned it even harder than the game that never came to be.
Not all open world games are Bethesda-tier crapfests.
>>322233635
>Open world offers absolutely zero benefit
Well, aside from having more types of games being preferable to fewer types, the value of exploring a large open space should not be discounted. Admittedly, this is hindered by having copy+paste dungeons, but it's not enough (for me) to ruin my enjoyment of the game. Whether that's because they are just varied enough, or because I don't care while I'm playing, I'm not sure.
>>322234339
>So you're willing to trade all those points, just to be able to roam around a world?
It's not an either or. There's room for both games in the world. Each offers a different experience.
DM's skill point system was nice, it just rewarded progression and finding secret areas. Somebody who murdered their way through got the same amount of points as a stealthy player.
When an exp system is used you end up with a sort of grinding that's nonsensical in the context of the game. For example in Human Revolution there's no reason to ever use a password to unlock a computer when you can just hack it for more personal gain.
But I guess people respond well to constant micro rewards.
>>322234479
Nigga thas why I sold it and bought a PC.
>>322234479
it's not even an FPS, autismal thing to whine about
>>322235494
Lol that IS what I did but you aren't me so why are you replying? looool
Crashes at chapter 4, Will never find out what those visions are
>>322235863
I help you outmy Prince~~~~ ;333
tXana
>>322235439
>For example in Human Revolution there's no reason to ever use a password to unlock a computer when you can just hack it for more personal gain
I hate shit like this. Something else that bothers me is being able to hack a terminal to unlock a safe in Fallout. It's better to hack the terminal, then leave the terminal and pick the lock on the safe. Really, it should work by having the experience tied to whether or not the safe is unlocked, but fuckin' BETHESDA FUCKING' SHITS WASTING MY TIME.
>>322236637
some people don't care about 5xp enough to do this autismical shit
>tfw luring a ton of enemies in front of the chandelier in the mansion then cutting the rope
>>322236782
I care.Also it's like 60XP BRO THAZZALOTTA XP
And, really, it shouldn't matter. At the end of the day, it's shitty game design. I still like Bethesda games, but this is just one example of the many rough edges that are Bethesda games. But, that's the trade off I suppose. Instead of a circle with a nice, smooth edge all the way around, they provide a bad-ass 15 sided oddly shaped polygon but the edges all feel like sandpaper.
>>322234339
>So you're willing to trade all those points, just to be able to roam around a world?
No, I'll just play both games, and play either just the way that makes its sytems and designs most enjoyable. Thank god I'm not a unimaginative faggot like you who can't just get the most of any game he wants to play.
>>322236637
You know, you can pick the lock and then hack the terminal anon.
>>322236782
I once read an interview with a developer on the subject of gameplay design. The one quote that stuck with me was something like:
"Gamers will tend to play the game the most optimal way, not necessarily the most fun way. It's my job to make sure the most fun way IS the most optimal way."
>>322238319
>you can pick the lock and then hack the terminal anon
That's the problem. I shouldn't need to do both. I should be able to hack the terminal, unlock the safe from the terminal, and get the maximum amount of XP from those two actions. But, instead, it makes more sense to hack/pick both of them separately, even though they both relate to the same thing.
IS there any skyrim mod that allows me to kick people?
>>322239135
yes
>>322239293
gib or i report u
There's literally 0 rpg that is better than moded skyrim
>>322233635
>>Better story
>>Better characters
Story in DMoM&M is so basic and predictable it hurts (which is good since the game is about kicking shit onto spikes and not some bullshit story), so anything having worse story would mean it fucking suck monkey dick. And the characters are as bland as possible.
That being said, Arkane sure knew how to make a game play fun and not to distract you with meaningless crap. Dark Messiah is the fucking best.
>>322234039
>Look at me I'm a hipster!
>>322239407
I think I prefer modded New Vegas more. It helps that NV was a fun game in its base form, unlike Skyrim's utterly unplayable vanilla settings.the sex mods for both games aren't bad either, although I do wish the animations weren't so rigid.
>>322239407
>There's literally 0 rpg that is better than moded skyrim
I have 30-40gb of the best mods after extensive research sitting on a drive that i can't be fucked to install and make work together.
i want to play the modded game; i really do, but i just get so fucking bored installing the damn mods for hours on end.
>mfw kicking literally everything
>>322239407
Cringe
>>322239661
this is funny, since I think I had more fun making a shitload of mods to work together than actually playing Skyrim. It's like trying to successfully pimp out the shittiest car on earth.
>>322234097
There's literally no reason to have Skyrim's combat over something actually interesting.It's the single most overrated game.
>>322239661
It take about a full day to make a functional super moded skyrim game from scratch
I don't even bother with open world games anymore. Stalest genre of them all.
You know, it's only just hitting me now how much of a contrarian shithole /v/ is. I've always heard the sentiment before but I never agreed with it. But you guys shitting on FUCKING SKYRIM? Come the fuck on.
>>322240358
They just can't accept it THE game.
Friendly reminder that skyrim has ~3times more in-game traffic than witcher 3. Skyrim is just more fun than witcher. deal with it fags
>>322240358
>>322240526
>nobody is talking about W3
>brings it up anyway
And they say that Witcherfags are insecure.
>>322240082
>It take about a full day to make a functional super moded skyrim game from scratch
Oh I remember why I gave up now. Trying to get FNIS PCEA2 to work. I even tried to get help from Fore himself, but he was useless.
FNIS nor that mod recognize the animations I want to use, and it was way too much work to figure out why it wouldn't.
IIUC, the a common opinion here is:
>Skryrim with mods > Oblivion > Mirrowind > Skyrim vanilla
right?
>>322241385
Morrowind is higher depending on who you talk to.
Bethesda's bread and butter is massive scale + "you can do anything" design.
They aren't particularly good at storytelling, gameplay programming, level design, engine development, or really any other aspect of making games. But they have a monopoly on that specific style of game. Dark Messiah might have better gameplay in almost every way, but you can't "do anything" in it like in Skyrim. You can't go anywhere you want at any time, can't kill random people for no reason, can't rob a store by putting a kettle on the shopkeeper's head to obscure their vision then taking everything that isn't nailed down. It's a more focused, linear experience.
>>322239661
>>322240082
Why do people bullshit like this when it's an hour or 2 at most if you're stopping every few installs to make sure everything plays nice?
>>322241385
Morrowind > Heavily modded Oblivion > Heavily modded Skyrim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vanilla Oblivion >>>>> Vanilla Skyrim
>>322233635
There were attacks in Dark Messiah other then kicking everyone off a ledge/into some spikes?
>>322233635
Everyone was hoping they would copy/paste the system. But they fucked up. Part reason is probably the fucking shit engine.
>>322233635
>since quests are basically "Follow this extremely monotonous and boring path of copied and pasted assets and use/kill/take x".
That's every quest in every RPG ever
How people can honestly say 1 is better than the other because of fluff-text is silly.
>>322241537
>>322241923
Oh, interesting, I think I'll start with Morrowind.
>>322241769
have fun installing 300-400 mods without a ctd every 10 minutes in 2 hours
i did it several times. If you want an heavy moded skyrim game that works, it takes a full day.
I modded skyrim to nearly 60GBs and it still sucked. You can't fix the base combat with mods; it needs to be redone completely.
>>322241385
Fuck no.
Skyrim is garbage even with mods.
So is Oblivion.
>>322244102
>So is Oblivion.
Nah. Oblivion is almost a decent game.
You need OOO to rebalance the world.
And a leveling mod the fix the broken piece of shit system that is actually worse than Morrowind somehow. I like Oblivion XP the best.
Game ends up being fairly enjoyable.
>2016
>there's still no MMORPG with Dark Messiah's combat
>>322244350
yeah I thought OOO was pretty neat at first, and then I realized how awful slow skill gains are. What was he thinking with this shit?
>>322233635
>Fun is killing the same 4 enemy types for 12 hours
>>322244774
You can teak them.
Oblivion xp is the mod that gives xp for killing monster, completing certain actions, and completing quests. Dude spent a long time balancing it. And it he made sure it works with OOO.
