http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/9835-happy-holidays/
>Vehicles
>We have had a number of updates regarding this highly sought after feature in recent months, but the reality is that they are not in a state where they can be rolled out to the public. Our programmers ran a number of tests on fully populated servers and experienced a lot of rubber-banding due to the vehicles de-syncing. This is a side effect of physics and replication on the servers not performing as intended.
>Unfortunately this is all a follow-on from the fact that a lot of rewriting needs to happen within the engine code itself, as we are going into territory that no other Unreal Engine 4 game has gone before. To that end we ask for your patience and we will continue to put out updates on vehicles as they happen.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
UE4 engine can't do online vehicles
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA
Go ahead and shit on Unity some more, faggots. At least Unity can do vehicles.
Time to make vehicle-shaped hats.
>>322118297
Where does it say that they can't do vehicles? There's just some unexpected problems with them, so fucking what? This is a game in active development, shit happens. Fuck off with your shitty bait and crawl back into the festering womb you crawled out of, underage scum.
Squad uses UE4? Did not know. It doesn't look like much compared to UT4.
>>322118297
Both are trash, there is no need to argue about them.
>>322118568
Based Bethesda knows where it's at.
kek, I recently refunded that game
>>322118643
>Unfortunately this is all a follow-on from the fact that a lot of rewriting needs to happen within the engine code itself
They have to rewrite the Unreal 4 engine source code to get vehicles to work.
>indie early-access devs makes tons of promises
>a couple months into development:
>"engine limitations lol"
Every time.
>>322118875
yes, and? UE4 is an engine, not a complete package that automatically makes the systems needed for vehicles.
Good vehicles are the worst addition to the series.
>>322119063
And the engine isn't capable of supporting the systems needed to make vehicles. The devs have to fix Epic's shit code before they can continue on with their game.
>>322118297
Refunding then
>>322119304
You seem to misunderstand how game engines in general work.
All companies literally have to write their own plugins / modifications to the engines 100% of the time.
>>322119573
No they don't.
>>322119304
UE4 has several things for vehicles, the problem they're having is with vehicles in multiplayer with lots of people
>>322119784
being ignorant is your call, desu senpai.
>>322119861
>UE4 has several things for vehicles, the problem they're having is with vehicles in multiplayer with lots of people
Which is exactly what the OP says. You are either retarded, or an EPIC employee (actually, the second necessitates the first.)
>>322119304
>The devs
You mean Epic?
>>322118297
Well it's a task of tweaking and checking. Obviously they won't be able to just implement and it magically works.
They are literally the first developers to do this with UE4, so give them some time to figure it out.
Battlefield to this day has shitty vehicles that lag around, and BF Hardline is a game based on vehicles.
>>322120310
Retard. He means the developers of Squad.
>squad will destroy arma 3
>>322118987
Literally DayZ. Only they have Star Citizen amounts of cash and still can't get their POS engine to cooperate.
>>322119063
>>322119063
>not a complete package
that's literally the point of release engine you fucking imbecile, to give a platform of base where you work up, you should extensively have to modify the source code to include bonus features (like in killing floor 2), not for fucking BASELINE features
the engine is shit, you are shit
>>322120149
>Which is exactly what the OP says.
OP said UE4 can't do online vehicles, which it can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfpYSfk8OI
>>322120475
at least they're trying to fix the desync issue before putting vehicles into the game
>>322120486
To be fair. I don't blame them. Bohemia games are pretty much held together with scotch tape and gum.
>>322118297
>developers are shitty
>blame the engine
This thread is retarded
>>322120695
>I don't blame Bohemia for Bohemia games being held together with scotch tape and gum
Well shit, I hope you don't blame me or drunk drivers or something.
>>322120475
even if you don't care for squad i don't see why you wouldn't want bohemia to have actual competition within the genre.
>>322118297
>shitty devs want everything to handhold them so they don't have to do any work
>"shitty engine, lol"
Seems like a squad issue not a UE4 issue, considering UE4 can in fact do vehicals.
This is a shitty thread OP. are you retarded?
>>322118662
>we want the 10,000 dollar pre-built PC audience
>and experienced a lot of rubber-banding due to the vehicles de-syncing.
That literally reads
tl:dr our netcode is really shit
>>322119301
>wants realistic experience or at least claims it is
>there are no vehicles or heavy weapons
I don't understand how the game can be realistic without those.
>>322120796
Bohemia didn't make DayZ. I blame them for making the Arma games pretty much unplayable.
Well. I do kinda blame the DayZ devs for choosing a annoying engine. But it's kinda hard to predict that stuff since it started out as a mod and all.
>>322120685
It's not about vehicles themselves, it's about the network not keeping up. No biggie desu.
>>322118297
I'm guessing you are the same type of retard that calls Gamebryo shit basing it only on how shitty Bethesda are at making games.
>>322120895
but UT4 runs effortlessly?
>>322120924
ok in honesty
networking in games have not progressed for ages because our infrastructure still fucking sucks
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/MarkMennell/20140929/226628/Making_FastPaced_Multiplayer_Networked_Games_is_Hard.php
read
>>322118662
>>322121180
bigger maps, more stuff going on, a lot of placeholders
But Rocket League is Unreal 3. They got it right once, how did they fuck it up?
>>322121438
Cars in rocket league are not vehicles
Grip exists though
>>322120475
Infantry Combat in Squad already destroyed Armas Infantry Combat.
I doubt that vehicle and air-warfare can be topped though.
>>322121438
the vehicles in rocket league basically are the player/ "human"
while in squad the vehicles are vehicles.
If you compare to games like call of duty, there's moving people (players) and sometimes mountable guns that are at a fixed position.
The vehicles in squad usually combines all these things.
you basically put the players inside a vehicle then it is given it's own life, which sort of is complicated in an engine like that.
look at arma 3, that's basically what they are trying to do.
Ummmmmm, wasn't UE3 fully capable of supporting vehicles both online and off? And that UE4 is basically an upgraded UE3? I think they're talking bollocks.
>>322118297
This website requires you be at least 18 years of age to post OP.
>>322121664
It's fully capable.
but fyi UE3/4 is primarily meant as singleplayer fps games.
You put in vehicles in the singleplayer campaign and let people brawl out online without vehicles.
>>322121757
How are they primarily meant as single player fps games when the core engine demonstration game is an online multiplayer arena game (UT)
>>322118297
It would take them less then 30 minutes to implement a working vehicle. The problem I'm gathering from this is that they are using the extensive vehicle layouts that function purely off of replicated physics which is going to flood a player with information regardless of the engine in question.
>>322121219
Our infastructure is good. If somebody has too high packet loss to work on the network model in question, don't let them play.
There is lots of eldritch horrors around packet loss, but you need to boot players who get it instead of letting them have a free pass.
100 ping isn't a issue either.
>>322121664
Well. It might be a bit difficult with how they are using and modified the engine. I,E, like pretty much all other engines in the world.
OP just doesn't know devs have to actually add and modify stuff themselves the majority of the time and you can't just drag and drop models onto templates and expect to get anywhere.
>>322121863
You'd then boot the whole mid-west
>Rubberbanding
Last time I checked no one cared about that in Arma either. That game has some of the most awful rubber banding I have ever seen.
>>322121863
This. If devs were more concerned with keeping a level playing field than they were with profits and making sure some BR scum can fuck up every server, we wouldn't have any issues.
Online gaming should be all about ensuring that a connection is good enough to play, with different servers available for people trying to game via potato.
>>322122041
And most of Australia to the outside world, and anything that is going over the South East Asian sea cables for Internet.
And people playing on Mobile Broadband.
Thats not a cost to pay. At all.
It also removes lag switches and a lot of cheating too.
>>322122108
Well some people have standards
Meanwhile, Star Citizen has spaceships hurling at kilometers per second with 10+ persons on board and absolutely no issue whatsoever.
>>322118875
Any dev needs to rewrite source code to change anything in a game engine.
You seem to not have a clue at all about what you're talking about.
UE4, just like UE3 has shit netcode
WOOOOOOOW
>>322121638
You're talking completely out of your ass.
In UE4 you can seamlessly possess different actors and each will be respectively the same as 'being' the car in rocket league or 'being' the human
Even static guns are probably done the same way.
>>322122316
>star shitizen
Should have made it in Unity.
>>322122316
Isn't Star Citizen basically a buggy unplayable mess?
>>322121020
Bohemia gets the last say on whatever the "dayz team" does. It's not the exact same team of people that made ARMA, but Bohemia has the full power to march in and say "stop fucking shit up, get the game working".
or maybe the Squad devs don't know what they're doing
I mean I have no idea what I'm talking about, I've never made a game, but it's a possibility you know
>>322122612
It's a pre-alpha atm but all the basic tech is working just fine. You can fly ships, have multicrew gameplay going on, seamlessly transition to EVA, FPS combat and stuff.
>>322122316
i'm sure there's alot of physics involved with moving a ship around an empty space
>>322122316
>absolutely no issue whatsoever.
Maybe in seven years or so.
>>322122503
>friend gifts me Verdun
>it's pretty fun but runs like shit despite looking like turd
>go to it's wikipedia page
>Unity
Every time. Is there a single non-shitty looking 3D Unity game that doesn't run like shit?
>>322122316
I don't think you quite understand what is going on in the background.
Space ships accelerate and then remain at the speed that their acceleration ended at.
The vehicles in squad are probably based off the advanced vehicle layouts provided by the u4 engine. Their locomotion is based off physics, they have an engine with a functioning transmission that sends power to the wheels independently which accelerate by making contact with the game world and are effected by the cars suspension.
Sending a single float value out vs sending a giant wall of text every millisecond is an entirely different ballgame.
>>322122781
Is the screen going dark because of G-forces? Because if it is I find that pretty cool.
>>322122909
>Bought Verdun on sale
>Really wanted WW1 fps
>All that micro stutter that made it feel like the FPS was constantly dropping
>IT'S NOT UNITY GUYS
It fucking is. Unity is so shit, I refunded it because I couldn't take it. Every fucking unity game I play is shit
>>322122781
20 years later and Colony Wars: Red Sun is still the best space game
indie developer
the engine is bad
lol
>>322118297
>hurr I have no idea how game engines work at all
spoiler: this kind of shit happens with almost every major games company and every single engine out there.
>>322122938
>>I don't think you quite understand what is going on in the background.
Neither do I think you do. Spaceships in Star Citizen are flown entirely with a physics simulation. The player inputs his commands and the flight computer turns the commands into orders for maneuvering thrusters. It's entirely physics driven and your ship progressively handles worse as said thrusters get damaged. Even having bits tore off from your ship handle its top speed and overall handling.
Also it has second and third order motion, separate physics grids for interiors, etc. It's not a fucking cube with just a velocity vector.
>>322123002
Yes, you're supposed to roll in order to turn pitch maneuvers into yaw to minimize GLOC
>>322123069
It's not that it's bad, it's that it's not perfect. They switched over from Unity. Imagine how much worse it would be on that
>>322122938
>they have an engine with a functioning transmission that sends power to the wheels independently which accelerate by making contact with the game world
........WHY?
To what fucking end. This isn't Dwarf Fortress.
>>322123002
Cancerous music but the flying is great IMO :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-30UOYtwHEs
>>322122938
ok, so they're doing something you shouldn't do outside of racing sims
>>322123186
But I think we can safely agree that land vehicle physics take a bit more to simulate than spaceships.
>>322123275
Shit son, this is triggering my inner defrager/surfer. In a good way.
>>322123375
Since said spaceships can fly in atmosphere, not really. Vehicles have frictions, so do spaceships in atmosphere. Vehicles have to handle bumps in the road, spaceships don't. Spaceships have 6 degrees of freedom, vehicles don't. It's largely comparable. Also Star Citizen spaceships can be 1 km long, I think there's a little bit more physics involved.
>>322123275
>that pop-in
I thought the game was meant to be run on monster rigs, what's with the short view distance?
>>322122316
Star Citizen is Cryengine, not unreal
>>322123547
You're completely clueless and understand nothing about atmospheric simulation, which won't even be a large focus of the incredibly simplistic physics present in SC.
>>322123606
That's not view distance. That's LOD
>>322123606
It's a placeholder racing track, I'm not surprised LOD isn't really polished.
>>322123650
Just saying the game everyone bashes on /v/ as being "vaporware" actually handles vehicles on a level games have never reached before.
>>322123685
Okay.
Does this shitty game require 500 keyboards just to go prone like in ARMA?
>>322123753
>>Just saying the game everyone bashes on /v/ as being "vaporware" actually handles vehicles on a level games have never reached before.
No, it doesn't. Stop eating up marketing bullshit from CR's mouth.
>>322123753
Elite Dangerous doesn't exist then?
>>322123757
No, it's more like battlefield (It's a successor to a battlefield mod) than arma
>>322123757
no it controls like any other fps
>>322123547
>Spaceships have 6 degrees of freedom
There's not a whole lot in the way of code bloat that comes as a consequence of that.
>Also Star Citizen spaceships can be 1 km long, I think there's a little bit more physics involved.
I don't really think there's a whole lot that distinguishes them from their smaller cousins except for different values on the same code basis.
All this aside, land vehicle simulation doesn't have to be state of the art for a game like this. It's pretty primitive in ARMA but it's not an issue at all. So technically, you are right in a way. While I stand by the claim that convincingly simulating a land vehicle requires a bit more than a spaceship, it's a fact that it doesn't really have to be convincing for a game like this.
>russians dont even have optics
>my face trying to shoot someone that's two grids away
It's a game of hoping your bullets accidently hit someone due to bulletspread working in your favor.
>>322123843
>Elite Dangerous doesn't exist then?
>Elite
>Fucking
>Dangerous
>Yaw is gimped by 90% so it's unusable
>You're fused with your pilot chair
>Have to pay 60€ to get basic features that don't add anything meaningful
HaaH.
>>322123839
>No, it doesn't. Stop eating up marketing bullshit from CR's mouth.
Got any other game in mind with spaceships you can walk in during their flight? The only other game that did that is SW Galaxies and it was kinda cheating with teleporters.
>>322124031
>Wanting "Take up half the screen" russian optics
heh
>>322123843
ED flight is fun but really simplistic. You can barely yaw at all and there isn't much complexity once you can handle flight assist off. SC is already much more complex with stuff like decoupled, comstab, GSAFE, true 6DOF etc
>>322124168
This is some kikes signature on the forums. What about it? It's not the developers
>>322124031
>>322124159
it's coming
>>322123324
Exactly. The reason no other developer has gone that far before is because no one expects to retain quality when flooding 100 players with that kind of information. Let alone the possibility of 100 separate but simultaneous instances of a 100 players getting flooded.
OP brings brand fanaticism to a whole new level.
>>322124191
ED is far more complex, because it's designed around actual dogfighting. You don't understand how incredibly dull it is to fight with better 6DOF. Preventing yaw is a design decision, not a complexity one.
Nothing in SC is even slightly impressive from a physics or coding standpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vImrH_G8C_o&feature=youtu.be
>>322124159
but if properly used, optics take zero space
why do all games still make players use optics wrong
>>322124856
Because most developers have never shot a gun in their life. Wonder if VR will make shooters actually get them right. Well, I guess by the fact you have two screens and depth perception they will be correct
Its gonna be great when UE4 gets vehicles in huge multiplayer servers working.
Imagine 128 players with 20 various vehicles on a huge map
Maybe it can dethrone Battlefield which Dice needs a serious reality check of, I'm not talking about Squad but some other game in the future that could rival Battlefield.
>>322123547
>Also Star Citizen spaceships can be 1 km long, I think there's a little bit more physics involved.
there are no more physics involved based on the length of the ship. that doesn't even make sense.
doing ground vehicle simulation is more complex. the "thrust" you think they're modeling is being done with trickery. you can't do teh same thing with transmissions and suspensions.
>>322118297
Are they fucking serious? I mean except for the first one, all Unreal Tournament games have fucking vehicles. How can they mess that up?
And I might actually off myself tonight. I wasn't feeling too good already. Fuck you.
>>322124079
>any other game where you can walk in ships during their flight
Space Engineers, and they recently got seamless planet to space stuff too
The unreal engine has been shit since 3 tbqh family
>>322124959
A couple of the guys in the mobile VR jam got close but they used a floating gun centered on the right eye which tridef unintentionally already nailed with their "dominate eye" setting.
Honestly no one is going to get close to what we're looking for until oculus touch gets involved. The best you can get right now is using tridef with arma2 and a high fov setting but the headsets do not have the resolution for that type of game so you're limited to making your own cqb mission files.
>>322118297
>UE4 engine can't do online vehicles
Are you seriously retarded?
>UE4 can't handle vehicles
>ark exists
>>322125720
Try actually reading and knowing what they mean. Ark is not doing what SQUAD is doing. Ark does not have transmissions and real vehicle physics
>>322122909
I think Besiege and Endless Legend seem to run pretty fine nowadays.
>>322122451
Imagine a humvee
There is a driver, people riding, and a turret.
The driver possess the humvee. The people possess themselves (can look around and shoot), and the gunner possesses the turret.
However, the people and gun have to be completely synched up to the driver, or else everything would rubberband. Thats that hardpart. If physics is handled clientside, your physics calculations for something like the humvee rolling better be synched between all participants at all times, or else they will expierence rubberbanding.
>>322124970
>>322125354
It can support vehicles. The problem as I already mentioned just a few posts up is that their vehicles are based off the advanced vehicles which are intended for racing simulations. They're sending way too much data with all the calculations required to operate them let alone all the other "normal" data going on ingame.
>>322118297
Good thing i use a real free engine like cryengine. Wouldn't want to loose 5% when the physics are trash
>>322122386
You only have to change the game engine if you are doing something outside its limitations. Apparently, UE4 can't handle online vehicles.
>>322126024
And when I say racing simulations I mean rally racing as it was developed to climb terrain.
>>322123031
>red sun
>not the superior vengence
>>322120685
>2 players on a lan network is the same as a 100 person server servicing people across the world.
Ok.
>>322124031
>bullet spread?
There is no rng bulletspread in the game. If you disable recoil with the admin settings, you'll shoot a one-hole.
if second life, a horribly coded 11 year old game, can easily do online physics why can't new engines do it 10x better?
i love tech threads on /v/, ignorance shines at full force and makes me feel better about myself
>>322125078
>there are no more physics involved based on the length of the ship. that doesn't even make sense.
Not him, but it does in Star Citizen. Each ship is basically a big Gmod contraption with each ship system being a physical thing all with mass and their functionality hooked up together. The thrusters on the ship all simulate actual impulse upon the rigid bodies taking into account the mass.
>>322118297
>Unreal 4 can't handle vehicles online
Yet...
I don't see the problem.
>>322126024
So a Battlefield style multiplayer fps shouldn't be too big a problem then if those vehicles can be more arcadey like they are in Battlefield now.
Just wish someone would make it.
DICE needs direct competition to get them out of their stagnant slumber.
>>322127165
The fact of the matter is the thrusters just give a simple vector.
The vehicles in squad are rotating tires spinning at several thousand RPM, colliding with the ground causing the vehicle to move forward. The ground vehicles don't use a vector at all.
>>322126740
They can handle physics, the issue is having a vehicle with accurate rally racing suspension replicating the physics involved with it's locomotion to 100 other players up to 100 times simultaneously.
Basically imagine the possibility sending complex data with the potential of it being a number as high as 10,000 but do it 100 times a second (so basically 1,000,000 times a second, this is of course if they use the default net update) without even adding in all the replication for the actual game itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8KnCaocyCo
meanwhile...
>>322127867
Is nobody asking why the fuck they're treating vehicles this way? Is Project CARS level of simulation necessary for a game like this?
>>322128707
Nobody's asking because nobody understands what they are looking at. I don't even think Squad's developers know what is going on if they had to stress test this concept.
>>322127746
There aren't enough Battlefield clones that get multi-million dollar budgets like DICE gets.
>>322123192
The devs who are making the templates are doing so because they find it interesting, instead of forcing someone on the job they ask if anyone wants to do it. That's when you get absurd code like the advanced vehicle in UE4. It's meant to simulate a real car for driving games. It's not some generic car like in other games.
>>322126106
Yes, they stated that in the article.
>>322128707
They're using epics advanced vehicle, which is meant to simulate a car and is mostly meant for driving games where you would want something like this. It's not meant to be used a lot due to performance reasons. The devs were lazy and took something made for a different genre and then complained about it when it didn't work. They're templates you're meant to build upon not use directly.
>>322118297
Unreal Engine isn't good for open enviroments without need a lot of GPU use, instead they will use CryEngine.
>>322130843
It's not the engine thats bad but the people using it, but you will never ever understand that.
>>322128256
I really hope they get paid for that shit.
So many console games don't have any multiplayer these days, that's just shameful.
>>322118297
I'm glad, I haven't bought it yet.
>we will never get a true next-gen Project Reality sequel
Just end me, last hopes is that ArmA 4 or the new expansion ups the performance enough for it to be fun.
>>322124970
I'm not a fan of too many vehicles being added to the game
it brings back horrible memories of 5km sniping tanks and technical
I just want jeeps, trucks and the occasional troop transport
>>322131959
Me too. I'd love it to be limited to just APCs, transports, humvees/technicals, and transport choppers.
Attack choppers, tanks, fighters, etc... all make the game shit.
>>322132983
yep, especially as most of the time you don't have the weapons to fight back and the guys with the weapons are chronic retards who refuse to use them
>>322133320
>AT kit gets like three rockets
>AT guy wastes them all shooting at lone infantrymen, and then tanks and choppers maul your squad to death
Every MP game with vehicles ever.
