I'm just kind of wondering if there have been any JRPGs or SRPGs (or any other similar turn-based Japanese RPGs) that have challenged the formula this generation
Every SRPG I see is the same Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea derivative. Grid-based movement, bonus damage from behind, gang up on enemies for an advantage, little to no actual STRATEGY involved.
And as far as regular JRPGs go, I haven't seen anything that challenges the formula since maybe Eternal Sonata. We regularly get new Final Fantasy titles and remakes or Shin Megami Tensei games, but they're hardly remarkable for their genre and only stand out as the lowest common denominators.
I know developers tend to want to play it safe, but have there been any gems in the past year or two that try to be more than their progenitors?
Nothing? Not a single thing?
Or am I just not getting replies because I'm not trolling?
>>321961237
Bravely Default was a great twist on traditional Final Fantasy combat with Brave Points and Bravely Second.
>>321961237
SRPGs are kind of a oxymoron, the very definition of an RPG where you gain experience and increase your skills negates the strategy aspect.
>>321962493
No it wasn't.
Why change what isnt broken
>>321962624
They're simulation rpgs, baka
>>321962875
You know full well what kind of game I'm referring to but ok, "tactical RPGs" if you must be a dick about semantics.
>>321961237
>Eternal Sonata
Isn't a jrpg. Are you looking for hybrids like tales and SO? Or do you want a jrpg with interesting/unique story or combat? I don't get it.
Consider the Super Robot Wars series.
At first glance it's even less tactical than FFT or DIsgaea, but if you're aiming for all the SR points, most games get very hard, very quick.
>>321962624
How you allocate those skills and experience is strategy.
Unit positioning/etc is still important etc.
You bring up a good point OP I the other day was brain storming a game that so happened to be a SRPG, and basically ended up with. Fire Emblem:Mechs. Maybe I'm just not that creative but there are a few things outside of gimmicks that can an SRPG stand out. The only SRPG that stands out to me is Valkarya Chronicles, and I'm not only talking about the gridless system it uses.
>>321961237
Valkryia Chronicles for Ps3, and soon Ps4, might be a good start for you.
I wonder if undertale counts? Haven't played it myself, but seems to be out of the box.
>>321963513
I think the PS4 version is JP only, since they never got the PC release.
The issue with Gridless systems(at least when NIS tried them) is that units could literally just hop over each other with no consequences.
Could be solved with an Attack of Opportunity system like the first 2 Age of Wonders had.
>>321963702
Undertale isn't an SRPG, it's not even an RPG. It's a half-baked bullet hell with an RPG themed menu.
>>321962791
I'm in the "it's repeated because it works" camp. SRPGS are a nice genre as is anyway.
Should SRPGs that use a move order system even be considered SRPGs? In all honesty they feel like regular RPGs.
What's wrong with grids? Most games that try to eliminate grids or hexes or other tile based systems just for the sake of it end up with an inferior system.
>>321963702
Undertale is neither an srpg nor a jrpg. It's not really even an rpg gameplay-wise
>>321962624
That's why you dump them for better tbs
>>321961237
>We regularly get new Final Fantasy titles and remakes or Shin Megami Tensei games, but they're hardly remarkable for their genre
what
>>321964173
SRPGs in general are basically JRPGs with a less abstracted battlefield.
>>321963424
Phantom Brave breaks all the rules.
Grid based? Nope, radial.
Turn order? You can literally throw your allies into the middle of combat if you want to trade one character's movement phase for theirs.
Class-restricted weapons and skills? Absolutely not. In fact, anything can be a weapon and there are various things scattered around maps that you can pick up and USE as weapons that are put there explicitly for that purpose.
No control over enemy positioning? Only in boss fights or if you're particularly slow, otherwise you can toss enemies around just as freely as you can allies.
And speaking of tossing things around, the weapon system I mentioned earlier? You can toss the same weapon, be it a sword or a cactus, and your entire team can use the one weapon.
Phantom Brave was fucking amazing and nobody else has done anything even SOMEWHAT similar since then.
Even NIS knows that they can't ever beat it, so they just re-released it twice with new content.
>>321963702
Valkyria Chronicles is on Steam for less than $10 right now.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/294860/
Only the first one though. It's really quite enjoyable, and matches your requirement of changing up the formula a bit.
I don't understand why it wasn't bigger hit.
>>321963042
>Eternal Sonata
>Not a JRPG
What the fuck are you talking about?
Do you really think that Tales and Star Ocean aren't JRPGs?
>>321965101
Makai Kingdom was even better than Phantom Brave.
>>321965101
Anon, i liked Phantom Brave, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
It has a lot of problems (like SPD being the most important stat) and the reason NIS didn't made something esle of it is because it wasn't as popular as Disgaea (just like every other NIS tittle) because it's a drama.
I still wonder why make two ports (one for the Wii and other for the PSP) but none for Soul Nomad.
But the fact that it tries something different is admirable.
>>321961237
I haven't played any SRPGs released in the last year or two, but it sounds like you haven't played many games in the subgenre. If you haven't played them already, check out the following: Growlanser IV, Valkyria Chronicles, Front Mission (4?), Fire Emblem, Langrisser (II?).
>>321965738
It'll be fine when they get a Steam release.
>>321965870
I hope, if Disgaea is niche then Phantom Brave is not relevant to almost anyone.
>>321965732
>>321965738
NIS SRPGs in general tend to be higher quality than others.
Not that it particularly counts, but ZHP uses a lot of systems from Phantom Brave and it makes it better for it.
And yes, nobody has ever heard of Phantom Brave which is why I want to spread the word. It's a beautiful game.
Natural doctrine, lots of reviewers complained about the difficulty
>>321966435
>NIS SRPGs in general tend to be higher quality than others.
That's a joke, right? Right?
>>321961237
Have you tried Natural Doctrine OP?
Or Valkria Chronicles?
>tfw I want to develop my own Tactics RPG to address most of my own personal gripes with the genre.
>But I'm too dumb to balance it or write AI.
>>321966581
It isn't a joke, anon.
>>321966435
>>321966581
I sure fucking hope this is a joke. I hate how NIS does every single kind of genre. They somehow managed to make me utterly hate a vanillaware title.
>>321966581
Have you played anything from their PS2 days? Because that's where they shine, and only where they shine.
Only exception is Disgaea.
Don't get me wrong, I love grinding and shit, in fact I wouldn't have it any other way, but Disgaea, including the earlier games aren't much for SRPGs, as anyone will tell you.
>>321966435
NIS
Is the bottom of the barrel.
LITERALLY the worst
>>321966581
>>321966808
>>321966847
>>321966884
NIS made some amazing quality games in the PS2 era and even have a few shining gems that are more modern.
Their PSP titles particularly are good, especially ZHP and the ClaDun games.
>>321967117
Just realized this.The MC of that game is goku.
>>321966884
NIS and NISA publish a lot of games they only develop a few of them you're probably confusing their games with compile heart
>>321967117
I just hate their style to kingdom come. It's nothing to do with which is their best or worst games. I've tried so many of them, and they all have the same focus on just grinding as many different ways as you can, and usually the main campaign takes a massive hit, ending up feeling more like a tutorial to post game. Or story is nearly disregarded in all aspects just to make a more grind-centric game.
That's fine for people who like that, but it's just awful for me in all the genres they've managed to apply it to.thanks for listening
>>321967480
that's why we like them, anon
>>321967480
I'm really only talking about Phantom Brave and ZHP here. Makai Kingdom is also great.
>>321966884
NIS made some pretty great/creative games on PS2/PSP to be fair. Phantom Brave, Soul Nomad, and ZHP are all quite good/interesting, and Disgaea was pretty neat too before they milked the shit out of it. Unfortunately nowadays pretty much all they do in-house is endless Disgaea sequels, so they're pretty shitty if you don't want more Disgaea. And every time they try to do something new it's mediocre to bad, like WatHK.
Although even most of their good games suffered from balance issues and a focus on grinding and big numbers over anything else, because they quickly realized that their core fanbase is the autistic grindan crowd who care more about a 200 hour timesink postgame than a well-balanced main campaign. So even then I wouldn't call them "higher quality than others" even if I really enjoy several of them.
>>321967705
Gotta get 'em 64 Trillion dmg sneezes.
>>321967213
What the fuck are you smoking, anon?
If a game strayed far enough from the conventions to please you, you wouldn't even consider it to be part of the genre and thus wouldn't be satisfied by it. There's only so much you can do to break the mold before you're playing an entirely different thing.
>>321967652
I get you like them, I just don't get why. It pains me trying to understand.
>>321968003
He gets rekt then he trains. That's the only thing he does whole game.
>>321961237
At the same time, you posted the very srpg that doesn't use grid based moment.
>>321968085
I have to wonder if you're genuinely autistic or if you're just very young.
In either case, google the word "Qualia" and come back after fifteen minutes of reading. Thank you.
>>321967705
>their core fanbase is the autistic grindan crowd who care more about a 200 hour timesink
They're just pathetic weebs who don't even care if NISA makes the game unplayable, for them NISA = gods.
>>321968085
Figuring out how to exploit gameplay mechanics to become more efficent with the grind.I also like most of characters tho
>>321968158
If you legitimately can't think of any character other than Goku that fits that role, you have not consumed enough media.
>>321968202
I'm only mildly autistic, thank you very much.
I was just hoping you'd explain what parts of NIS games make you want to play them, like power rewards or something to that effect. I get that tastes are subjective, i was just genuinely curious.
>>321968303
This guy got it. Glad you're enjoying yourself.
>>321967480
As someone who has the same issue I think ZHP strikes a pretty good balance. You can get a lot of enjoyment purely from playing through the game, and even a fair bit of the optional content is doable without fucktons of grinding. It still has several very large postgame dungeons for people who like da grindan gaem, but it's not like a lot of other NIS games where it feels like everything was balanced around postgame.
For their other games people make the argument that you can just play through the campaign without grinding and enjoy it by itself, but usually I think that's bullshit because the game systems are clearly balanced around the postgame, and only doing the campaign means you miss out on basically all the complexity. In Phantom Brave for example (which I still like, but it has problems) it's pretty much impossible to make proper use of the vast majority of the game's systems during the main campaign because you simply won't have the resources/levels. Disgaea has the same problem. But with ZHP the main campaign feels "complete" and does allow you to play with pretty much everything the game has to offer, the postgame just lets you get bigger numbers and better stuff if you really want to.
>>321967213
I don't remember goku having a nental trauma that caused him to go mute
>>321968158
Ever heard ofKamen RiderorSuper Sentai??
>>321961237
Trails series, The Last Remnant, Mana Khemia/maybe mainline Atelier series off the top of my head.
>>321967705
This is what frustrates me about modern NIS. The havehad, since from what I understand everyone who made the company good has jumped shipthe potential. Fucking Guided Fate Paradox could have been GOAT, but instead it was generic waifu shit. Not to mention its sequel.
>>321968243
nice stereotypes you got there
>>321968482
>This guy got it. Glad you're enjoying yourself.
I'll probably won't being able to play any other sRPG till I play most of what Disgaea series has to offer.
This will take awhile, only on 3rd game post game.
>>321961237
Did you play any psx jrpgs? Try gears first
Play Soul Nomad. It's NIS's best SRPG, and it uses a system akin to Tactics Ogre.
>tfw one of the onlly NIS games never to get ported
I just wanna see it on Vitaor PS4 but preferably Vita
>>321968658
Hundred Knight was good but I do like it much more than everyone else. It's admittedly experimental as fuck and I feel like it would've fit the ZHP Framework better than TGFP did.
>>321963424
SRW is Fire Emblem:Mechs
>>321968752
>nice stereotypes you got there
Nigga have you actually fucking been to NIS forums? They don't even care if they get fucked over in game fixing like with 100 Knight and just go on to jack off to the next NISA game and the epic memes that it brings.
I bet they even find Esty Dee hilarious, fuck.
There's even that one guy who bought dozens of Mugen Souls just to help NISA clear stock. They don't care about censorship either, it's just a cesspool of pathetic weebs.
>>321969095
with better fanservice
>>321968752
Oh and it's not even limited to the NISA forums. Everytime they make a new announcement people are telling how based NISA is and how they're this and that fantastic and blah blah. It's obnoxious how people can still be so caring for them despite how much NISA has fucked people over.
NIS(A) is the Activision/EA of Japshit.
>>321969227
>Nigga have you actually fucking been to NIS forums?
No?
I follow their games and play their games, that what makes me their core audience. Posting on some forum doesn't mean shit.
>>321969341
NISA is not NIS. They're pratically seperate entities at this point, granted NIS does scummy shit but NISA is 100% terrible.
>>321969412
> that what makes me their core audience
Oh you poor soul, you actually believe that? They censor games just so they can try and reach wider audience.
Or are you part of the audience who unironically enjoys memes, censorship, bugs, glitches, crashes and all that jazz?
>>321969507
Yeah, I know. NIS keeps exploiting scummy DLC practices again and again while NISA is just full retard all the time.
>>321969593
>Oh you poor soul, you actually believe that? They censor games just so they can try and reach wider audience.
And I don't buy those games. Or wait for a good deal. So?
Core audience is those who interested in such types of games, not obsessed with some company fanboys.
You understand that your personal vengeance makes you no better than those fanboys?
>>321969852
>You understand that your personal vengeance makes you no better than those fanboys?
if i kill dat guii...... im no better than him.... pssshhh....
>And I don't buy those games.
So you practically don't buy their games at all? Pretty much all of their releases are fucked with one way or the other. The last release from them that wasn't fucked around with that much was GFP.
The fact that they keep on releasing broken games and people making it acceptable just makes them do it more and more.
>>321970035
>So you practically don't buy their games at all?
I bought Disgaea 5 LE recently alongside with D4 LE for Vita. Planning to get asian release of The Witch and the Hundred Knight soon next year.
Looking forward to their new dungeon crawler cause Takehito art. Have all their Disgaea games, including DD2, but it was pretty cheap so that balanced bugs.
I also have every Takehito artbook and most of other Disgaea related artbooks if that counts.
But I guess any single, tiny thing like DLC characters is a huge fuckup for you which makes it all terrible and transforms games in literally broken trash. So whatever.
