And I don't mean in a "omg I feel so bad" terrible, I mean a "wow, this is not fun at all" terrible. The game literally becomes a walking simulator because the puzzles are already done for you, so there's absolutely nothing else to do in the overworld. I get that the world is supposed to feel lifeless because of my actions, but that doesn't really make up for bland world design.
And in order to get the ACTUAL genocide ending, you need to kill absolutely every single enemy in each area. This is made especially tedious by the decreasing encounter chance as you kill more enemies (again, I understand that's supposed to represent your genocidal actions, but that doesn't excuse the tedium.)
And the best part? There's only two actual boss fights in this route. Every other "boss" is immediately one-shotted by you upon encounter. Gee, what fun.
I get what the game is saying: Genocide is bad and you should feel bad. But damn, that was such a forgettable gameplay experience. At least let me have fun being Hitler, Toby.
The pacifist run is noticeably better, but not to the extent where I think its deserving of all the damn cock-sucking the game receives on a daily basis.
It's not supposed to be fun etc. etc.
everyone knows undertale sucks, don't make these fucking threads.
Do you have any idea what you just did?
You bastard, how dare you talk shit about muh feels. Know that from this moment on, you are not a DECENT HUMAN BEING anymore.
>>321960971
just use the fucking cheat engine table for instant enoucnters you shitneck
Agreed,shame that Sans Is the only fun challenging boss in the game,and that Is literally It,otherwise all It brought Is shitty creepypasta and Sans becoming the new rainbow dash,I hope It never existed.
>And I don't mean in a "omg I feel so bad" terrible
This is why it should be terrible, you're literally autistic for hating it because its not fun
>>321961416
>you're literally autistic for hating it because its not fun
>video games should not be fun
undertale, everyone!
>>321960971
It seems you put a lot of effort into this post, so I'll go ahead and reward your efforts with a reply.
>>321960971
>I mean a "wow, this is not fun at all" terrible.
Pacifist run is overrated though. It has no meaning if you do it first. Neutral runs are the best.
You could have just pressed an arrow and then alt tabbed,the game keeps the character walking
>>321961164
Well yeah, that's the point. It's an option but the developers want to discourage the player from doing it, so they made it annoyingly tedious.
>>321961831
that's /not/ what I implied
OP stated the reason for disliking genocide improperly, you're not supposed to hate it /because/ its /boring/, you're supposed to /hate/ it /because/ it literally the /wrong/ thing to /do/
>>321962113
>/words/
Back to tumblr you go faggot.
>>321962101
Making something purposefully tedious doesn't make it any less tedious.
>>321962101
Why bother putting it in if you don't want people to do it?
>You kept going, you had a bad time.
It's labeled right on the tin.
>>321962232
/stop/ avoiding the /argument/ with autistic /rambling/
THIS IS /WHY/ ANTI-TUMBLR PEOPLE ARE FUCKING /STUPID/
>>321962113
You're fucking retarded
>>321962113
>stated the reason for disliking genocide improperly
>his reason for disliking something must be the correct reason
go back to tumblr, fag. you clearly are /not/ from around here.
>>321962236
Well yeah that kind of goes without saying.
>>321962346
I dunno, I guess to make people who do it anyway seem like a big asshole? I'm just guessing.
>>321962405
>he's pro tumblr
jej
>>321962405
>ANTI-TUMBLR PEOPLE ARE FUCKING /STUPID/
look at your self, faggot.
>anti-tumblr
you mean normal? normal people don't use that hive of multigendered snowflakin
Genocide run doesn't even do a good job of telling the message it wants to. On one hand it wants to be tedious bullshit that rewards you with the highest possible numbers of gold, xp, and attack and defense power because it's meant to be a criticism of a soulless, power-gaming approach to gaming. On the other hand it has the two bosses that are by far more fun and challenging than anything else in the game, which is the actual incentive people have for doing the route. So the entire criticism in the ending about how "lol I'm the spirit of RPG min-maxing ooga booga" is retarded because really everybody that goes through with the route just wants to be challenged.
>>321962405
How to spot a girl.
>>321962645
>girl
you mean guy who wants to cut his dick off?
>>321962573
>he
>>321962484
>>321962573
>>321962603
>>321962645
/why/ do you people /hate/ tumblr so much?
it's a great place for porn, especially /anthro/ porn, and this place loves their weird /fetishes/
seriously this is /stupid/...
>>321962405
>>321962645
I'm sure it's a false-flagging shitposter
as much as /v/ likes to think /v/ is full of tumblr boogeywomen, I think they're too busy gossiping among each other like hens or jerking it to yaoi to come bother us
>>321962747
>likes tumblr
>talks like a special snowflake faggot
>is a furfag
this just keeps getting better.
![spurdo[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/QWdzXnb.png "spurdo[1].png")
That room reminds me of spurdo
>>321962101
>it's supposed to be bad!
undertale fags everyone
>>321962747
>tumblr is its main source of clique porn
>it takes an incorrect use of meme, and takes it way to far
>its a weak shitpost
3/10, plus 5 for making me reply
>OP's argument is that its not fun gameplay wise
>YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME
People are praising the feelings the game gives them more than the actual game. I like the game Nier but even I acknowledge the gameplay is really bad
>>321962910
underrated post. Good call anon.
>>321963017
so are you saying it's bad on purpose, or acknowledging the fact it's genuinely a poorly constructed game?
>>321962792
why did you /reply/ to me? how am I /shitposting/? I'm just defending a video game and a website that /4chan/ would love?....whatever I guess
>>321962894
whatever makes you happier?
>>321963007
I never said it was the /main/ source but there is a lot of nice /artists/, you can even chose who you want to follow!
>>321963248
>still talking like an /faget/
>still defending tumblr
kill yourself.
>>321960971
The point of the genocide run is the meta-narrative is builds. All of the plot points are at you the player instead of your character and it modifies and removes the game play as part of that. It even literally calls out the people who watch lets plays and streams of it and instead playing the genocide run themselves.
Pacifist and Neutral is where the game play is. If that's all you care about you should have done those first then.
>>321962910
I kind of see it.
>>321963529
>gameplay
>If that's all you care about
why else would one play a game?
>>321960971
>wow, this is not fun at all" terrible
ALMOST LIKE GRINDING IN AN RPG.
I don't wish to make too radical a fan theory here, but perhaps the genocide mode was intended as some kind of commentary on a certain type of RPG player? I mean I understand it's an entirely unexplored avenue. It's not like Toby 'tl;dr eat shit faggots' Fox has a history of doing things like that to the player. He most certainly never made an earthbound hack where you can't play 75% of the game if you don't realize you're supposed to press 'B' to escape a single-option-dialog-box.
>>321962346Because he knows you'll do it anyway and wants to comment on that behaviour.
>>321963248
this is bait, nobody emphasises random words like this. not even women.
>>321963614
>muh feels
>muh 'leveling up is bad' message
it's really poorly executed.
>>321963614
It's a comment both on grinding, killing without thought, people who breeze through games to go to the next one without appreciating the world they were in, and the 100%ers
>>321963614
>>321963820
>Make a game
>Act like a smug ass towards the players for playing it
Wow such forethought, how very insightful and thought-provoking. Way to peg down that behavior, Toby Fox. Truly the GOTY.
>>321964014
but it's deep, and emotional anon? how could you ever hate the citizen kane of video games?
>>321964014
>Act like a smug ass towards the players for playing it
>Giving the player a bad ending for doing bad things is being smug
>>321964162
>taking the feelsbait
>>321964014
Anon, please realize people don't normally grind without a reason, such as getting a level so you can pass by a boss or getting a super sweet skill in whatever RPG. You would have to actually want to constantly kill over and over, even if you didn't need it to progress in the first place.
>>321963591
The story, visuals, the sound track, social experience, etc.
Yes game play is important but its not the only thing games have to offer.
its supposed to be that way
>its supposed to be that way
it really is supposed to be that way
>>321964284
>muh message is better than gameplay
>muh emotional skill
>muh meta commentary on how leveling up is bad and gaymers are evul
simply ebin, fuck off retard.
>>321963806
Explain how then, saying it is poorly executed is meaningless if you don't provide any reasons as to why it is bad.
The game intended for Genocide mode to represent what the gameplay of most modern RPG's have devolved into, grinding and murdering a heap of enemies in return for power. The boss fights are challenging, but the entire dialogue for the sans fight in particular is constantly questioning you for your reasons to continue. When provided a peaceful alternative, why do you pick the one with the most bloodshed.
As he says during the fight
>sounds strange, but before all this i was secretly hoping we could be friends. i always thought the anomaly was doing this cause they were unhappy. and when they got what they wanted, they would stop all this.
>you'll keep consuming timelines over and over, until... well. hey. take it from me, kid. someday... you gotta learn when to QUIT.
>>321960971
Well, he did promise you a bad time. It fits taht it's a bad time on every level. You feel bad about being a monstrous asshole, the game becomes boring, and you only get two good fights out of it. Genocide Run delivered on it's promise, and you're mad about it.
>>321964162
>Put an entire path in the game that the player is not meant to take
>Game actively discourages and berates you at every turn
>Because Toby Fox thinks his half-baked commentary on RPGs and their players is so clever
Is that all the game has to its credit? I surely hope not, famalam. Because the humor and characters sure don't do much for it.
>>321964379
>muh message is better than gameplay
Journey is better than gameplay, which has been a universal rule of RPGs since final fantasy 1.
>>321964309
undertale's story is shit
undertale's visuals are inconsistent and jarring at worst, mediocre at best.
undertale's soundtrack is pretty good, one of the better albums in general that's come out this year
>social experience
go back to tumblr
>>321964420
the
>le bad time meme
is at the end of it
also saged
>>321964379
Well killing a shit load of things is evil.
>>321964420
>You feel bad about being a monstrous asshole
Not really
>>321964387
are exposition dumps with feelsad music playing a good way of conveying a message?
if not it's poorly executed.
>>321964497
>which has been a universal rule of RPGs since final fantasy 1
then why do most RPGs have engaging gameplay as well as an engaging story?
>>321964580
and I should have fun when doing it, because i'm playing a fucking video game not actually killing things.
![082df3aa0d8fb87776bdd547de83ec77[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/TqUKolr.gif "082df3aa0d8fb87776bdd547de83ec77[1].gif")
>>321964379
Genocide route offers the best gameplay the game has to offer though.
Since when can't games not have emotions? Emotions are in everything, be it small or large. It doesn't even have to be literary for it to have emotion.
>fuck off retard
That's not nice, anon.
>>321964379
You can play the game, gameplay and all, without killing anything. Aside from health, the bonuses leveling gives you are pointless if you don't want to fight, it isn't saying gamers are evil but rather questioning why you kill stuff in the first place.
It's no CITIZEN KANE OF GAMING 2015/10, but it does deliver a neat narrative if you decide to play it against the recommended path.
What about the gameplay during fights was dissatisfying for you during pacifist mode?
>>321960971
You're not intended to do it in the first place. If not for word of mouth most people probably wouldn't even know it's a thing. It'd tedious to start, can be very easily messed up at multiple points in the game, and has the most frustrating bosses in the game.
And your reward for completing it is a jumpscare and a permanent change to every good ending you get afterwards.
I also think it was rushed. It doesn't go far enough at all. I just happily walk along and leave tons of innocent refugees alive? I never get to kill, hell, ATTACK any defenseless NPCs aside from Monster Kid and technically the snowman? I don't get to kill the shopkeepers myself and take their money and items?
Very obvious that the bosses were done first and the scenario in which you fight them was scrapped together around them.
But it's the only way to meet my waifu!
>>321964731
you mean the best bosses?
the boss battles were the only parts of undertale that were remotely fun.
>forcing an 'emotional message' in a game is good
fuck off, retard. if you're going to do feelsbait at least do it right.
>>321964649
>why do most RPGs have engaging gameplay
They do? news to me. Occasionally they have engaging puzzles, but the tedium of their turn based combat usually makes up for that.
(J)RPGs have always been largely about the adventure, not core gameplay.
>>321964420
I hate this fucking argument.
>It's SUPPOSED to be bad because you're not supposed to play it that way!
Why even give the option if you're just going to half-ass it?
>>321964770
>if you decide to play it against the recommended path
>if you're not playing it my way you're playing it wrong
>neat narrative
>narrative more important than making a fun video game
undermeme.
>>321964771
>I don't get to kill the shopkeepers myself and take their money and items?
No, because they understand the user interface protects them. lel meta.
Its all terrible.
>>321964770
Killing stuff is just a gameplay mechanic, may as well question why you push a button to move.
>more interesting route is easy and boring
>more challenging is just boring
Good game.
>>321964649
>are exposition dumps with feelsad music playing a good way of conveying a message?
if not it's poorly executed.
Are you just talking out of your ass right now? Are you one of those faggots that sees people talk about a game and pretends to know just enough to complain about it by watching videos?
Also, you keep throwing around the fact that it's gameplay is bad, what is bad about the fighting system? It personalizes the attacks of each type of monster and does a good job of making them fun while being interactive with the monster itself.
>>321964914
>Why even give the option if you're just going to half-ass it?
Because they know people will do it anyway.
>>321964894
>news to me.
>thinks puzzles are main element of jRPG
play xenogears, ffvii, ffvi, chrono trigger, and brave fencer musashi before replying.
Has there ever been a more overhyped game in existence?
Is this the work of the liquid jew?
>>321964823
You can put whatever you want in a game though, anon. If you don't like that stuff, why are you even interested in it in the first place?
The gameplay was the combination of basic bullet hell and RPG elements mushed together. I liked it because it was neat and unexpected, since I didn't watch or read anything about Undertale beforehand.
Of course, you could say the bullet hell elements are very basic, and yes, they are, mainly because the bigger audience are from the RPG side, not the bullet hell.
>>321965109
>thinks puzzles are main element of jRPG
No, I think an adventure is the main element of a JRPG.
Read my post properly before replying.
>>321965001
That and the fact that we never truly kill anything.
Unless the game is trying to push a narrative like Undertale obviously does, you're not doing much more than eliminating moving obstacles. Ones that you'll probably see again and again on consecutive playthroughs or as you re-enter an area. If Undertale is implying we should feel bad for stomping goombas, I'm not sure that's all too compelling.
>>321964928
Thats the thing though, by intentionally going out of your way to sit in an area and farm you MADE it not fun, you are basically criticizing the game for your own retarded choices.
>hurr durr I killed everything that tried to spare me and went out of my way to do this thing
>why is it not rewarding me for doing something it told me not to?
>>321965048
>what is bad about the fighting system?
almost nothing, it depends on what route you take but once you've figured one monster type out you've figured them all out(ie all moldsmals can be delt with the same way)
it quickly becomes repetitive, and the boss battles were the only part of undertale I genuinely enjoyed.
some were cringeworthy(looking at undyne and mettaton) but overall the gameplay was fun and I have no complaints.
>you didn't play it
nice meme
i said the message was poorly executed, and I stand by that, exposition dumps + feelsmusic does not = good writing.
>>321965375
>once you've figured one monster type out you've figured them all out(ie all moldsmals can be delt with the same way)
to be fair it's a step up from most RPGs where every monster is dealt with the same way [ATTACK]
>>321965189
both the RPG elements and the bullet hell elements are poorly executed
the story/message is as well.
weak gameplay + weak story = weak game.
>>321965309
>you played it wrong
nice fucking meme
>>321964928
>he's resorted to calling it a meme again
>>321964513
What I said isn't just about Undertale. All video games have those aspects in one way or another.
>>321965375
>feelsmusic exposition dump
What the fuck are you on about. Megalovania, ASGORE, finale, none of those are even remotely feelsy or even possibly exposition dumps, you can do the whole boss fights with less than one line of dialogue. The only potential one you could be talking about is Save the World with Asriel, but thats the payoff fight for attempting to make friends with the monsters, you literally have to be friends with them.
>>321965474
except you're forgetting that most RPGs have developed stat systems that actually create a challenge.
undertale is just
>encounter moldsmal
>exhaust options until you figure out *sexy wiggle*(super funny internet asterisks right? I'm hip to the way us kids talk)
>do it on every moldsmal
>>321963614
what kind of useful commentary would it even fucking be? "haha, videogame people are people too! bet you feel bad for killing them to level up. what, you thought you would be playing the game to have fun?"
>>321965671
The walk through the house with the monsters showing up every two steps and dumping the story is what he described.
>>321965671
I'm talking about true lab/new home.
those are just exposition dumps with sad music playing to licit a response from the player.
a hallmark of good writing is having the audience not perceive the emotional manipulation occurring, undertale sits you down at several points during the game and says 'FEEL THIS'
>>321965551
>bullet hell was weak
If you play fucking 2hu then yeah, for a vast majority it was an introduction to those type of fights. Bullet hells aren't exactly the most mainstream.
And what exactly constitutes a good RPG element to you, from my POV, undertale did a great job at doing what it intended.
Also, it isn't saying "you played it wrong", you just literally went out of your way to do it the way you were told not to just to see what would happen, flowey even mentions those types of people during one of the dialogues.
>>321965879
>>321965862
I can somewhat understand new home, but I saw it more as hyping me up for the end fight, hearing the backstory I was starting to piece it all together. True lab I wish was done a bit smoother, but the amalgamations are somewhat uncomfortable to fight.
>>321965551
>poorly executed
I disagree. I thought the characters were nicely written and the story, while simplistic, was easy to understand and allowed progression. The dynamics are all there, as well the areas that catch the player off guard.
The gameplay even progresses in difficulty like any other game. The later enemies in the generator were much harder than previous enemies. Gameplay progression is present. It also offers various gimmicks to keep things fresh along the ride.
Some people will find it too easy. There are those out there that could also think it's too hard. My only disappointment in terms of the gameplay is hard mode not being a thing yet, in which I hope Toby does something with it. He does have plans to expand it with the extra money he got from the Kickstarter, so I've heard from another anon on here.
I think it would be neat though to see stats increase for your soul based on your actions, like increasing its speed, or something like that. However, there are items that do that kind of gimmick, be in the player movement or health, etc.
The gameplay is definitely designed around four mechanics: FIght, figuring out what to say to lower the enemy's defenses to spare them, dodging, and puzzles.
>>321965675
>except you're forgetting that most RPGs have developed stat systems that actually create a challenge.
Not really, unless tedium counts as challenge.
With a few exceptions (Phantasy Star 4 comes to mind because if your level gets too high you actually start getting weaker.), all you have to do is grind until your numbers are good enough and heal. You don't even have to look at your stats. In traditional RPG mode, you'd eventually hit the point where every Moldsmal dies in one hit because your numbers are so good.
JRPGs were the first type of game I managed to complete as a kid because all you really need is perseverence.to be honest the main thing I like about undertale's combat is that you can dodge enemy attacks if you have skill, instead of it just being a numbers game like with a traditional JRPG
>>321965932
>thinking 2hu is a good example of bullet hell
i'm talking about mechanically weak, not having 10,000 bullets on screen.
undertale did what it 'intended' to do an in the process sacrificed what could've easily been a fun video game to drive a point home.
>Also, it isn't saying "you played it wrong"
>you just literally went out of your way to do it the way you were told not to
"you're playing it wrong"
>I'm not enjoying this game
>People imply that this is the way it should be
Dude what
In OFF be the bad guy is fun.
>>321965879
that moment isn't supposed to be sad though, it's supposed to be funny.
>>321963614
MAYBE THAT MEANS RPGS ARE BAD YOU FUCKING CUNT
>>321966170
If your complaint is that you can't go against the games directed path and get the best result then this might not be the correct medium for you.
When it becomes an argument about whether or not you consider something fun then there's just no point. Maybe you just have heavily skewed tastes?
>>321966170
Different anon.
Could you elaborate on the mechanics you weren't satisfy with? I personally thought that there were plenty of different explorations of the soul mechanic.
>Blue heart = platforming
>Green heart = reaction, shielding against bullets
>Yellow heart = shoot 'em ups
>Purple heart = climbing based on grid
>Red heart = persisting and dodging through waves of bullets
>>321966456
If you don't like RPGs why would you play Undertale - a game that clearly bills itself as one?
>>321966132
>I thought the characters were nicely written and the story, while simplistic, was easy to understand and allowed progression.
the characters were entirely based on tropes and progressed in the most predictable way possible.
>FIght, figuring out what to say to lower the enemy's defenses to spare them, dodging, and puzzles.
three of those happen within the battle system, and one of those just serves to artificially extend gameplay.
the puzzles are all incredibly simplistic and usually serve as a 'joke' delivery system.
>>321966152
>eventually hit the point where every Moldsmal dies in one hit because your numbers are so good.
which is a lot better than being able to 'solve your problems' with them the same way every time from the get-go.
>>321966540
Why would I play it when I can just shitpost about it after reading a review?
>>321965879
True Lab is amazing though
>>321966523
Purple and blue are literally the best. Any other opinion is wrong.
>>321966471
>games directed path
>correct medium
>heavily skewed tastes
you're the one trying to skew people's tastes, tumblrfaggot.
>>321966523
and those mechanics primarily appear in boss fights, which I already said were by far my favorite aspect of this nongame.
my main gripe is that is sacrificed fun to drive a point home and didn't even drive the point home well.
>>321966456
>RPGS ARE BAD
>>321966703
>Not Purple and Yellow
Really nigger
>>321966545
>tropes
That's what characters are though nowadays. I would argue that we have almost exhaust all of the character dynamics that can be written out.
True, that is how the gameplay is laid out. I'm starting to think now though the battle system is its selling point.
>>321966739
RPGs are bad. They're fucking terrible because proper roleplaying cannot be done in a preprogrammed video game format. Tabletop or trash.
>>321966545
>tropes
You realize that tropes make up all of literature and media right? Personally I found the whole thing with Asgore to be a bit of a shock, I went in blind though.
>>321966810
emotional bullshit is the selling point, and all these fags are taking the feelsbait.
if more of the game was ebin battles I'd probably like it.
don't defend shitty writing in any regard m8, trope based characters are never good.
did you like when borderlands 2 did it?
I'd like to genocide all the tumblrtale faggots in the world
>>321966714
>and those mechanics primarily appear in boss fights, which I already said were by far my favorite aspect of this nongame.
my main gripe is that is sacrificed fun to drive a point home and didn't even drive the point home well.
Okay. I think I'm starting to see your point now, anon. Though, I still see it as a game like many other games.
Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy it as much as I did. I understand your frustration.
>>321966812
you'd enjoy nethack.
>>321966545
>which is a lot better than being able to 'solve your problems' with them the same way every time from the get-go.
it's not really, they remain just as tedious.
Earthbound had it right in this respect - if you were signifigantly stronger than an enemy they'd run away, and if you walked into them anyway 90% of the time you'd win automatically.
>>321967009I actually do
>>321966714
You keep saying "it sacrificed fun" but the normal encounters weren't even unlikable, except jerry, fuck that guy.
Also, you act as if enjoying the game is tantamount to being a huge tumblrfaggot, you just seem incredibly difficult to please in regards to having "fun"
>>321967013
so rewarding the player for investing time into a game and grinding to build stats is just as boring and tedious as figuring out a simplistic puzzle(most likely by exhausting options) that generates *funny text* and repeating it ad nauseum?
don't you ever feed chara and watch those numbers go up m8?it's actually fun
>>321960971
>not liking Flowey's dialogue near the end
>not liking murdering or causing the indirect suicides of characters
>not enjoying oneshotting bosses
>not enjoying this whole new perception of your character
>whoever, you played through it and probably knew all this was going to happen anyways before picking this route in the first place
...Why'd you even play it? Like, if you actually even beat it that is.
>>321964771
>If not for word of mouth most people probably wouldn't even know it's a thing
Bullshit, there's always a segment of players who go the hitler route in any game that has moral choices just because they can.
>I also think it was rushed
I agree, or at least would prefer to believe that was the reason why you instakill a bunch of bosses.
>>321967135
that's an incredibly subjective opinion, I found the random encounters repetitive and unfunny.
jerry was one of my favorites because it reminded me of george cantstandya.
>>321967259
Thats the message I was getting from the beginning of the genocide route, pre killing papyrus, you just walk past all the "silly puzzles" and skip the jokes, unlike most games that allow you to detach from the reality of negativity for killing things, the NPC's in undertale comment and belittle you for it.
The reason I like that is because it makes their world feel more organic, you aren't just killing them while they ignore you, they actively flee the towns and attempt to have their strongest stop you.But you aren't a human, are you?
>>321967494
The jerry part was a joke. I do admit I disliked fighting them past their first encounter. They weren't challenging enough to warrant my time.
The first encounter was always entertaining for me, getting to see their behaviors and actions.
>>321967619
thanks m8, your post helped me figure out why I don't like this game as much as I do.
it's a perfect example of telling instead of showing,I felt as if characters were screaming 'look how organic this world is' and 'relate to my problems' the entire game instead of actually being shown an organic world and characters with issues you can actually relate to.
I felt as if I was being shoehorned into a path to reach a certain ending, which was exactly what was happening.at this point i'm probably not
why are these games obsessed with morality only ever from the same perspective? that killing is absolutely wrong, that violence is horrible. why is it that no game has ventured into the murky and disgusting nature of everything, why is it so simplified, and sanitized? when will vidya have its babyfucker?
>>321967937
>when will vidya have its babyfucker?
play LISA
>>321967763
this is how I felt about the majority of the game, every battle can be summed up by this
>observe whacky design
>find weakness by exhausting options/weaken by attacking
>spare or kill
same way every fucking time. rng based SMT games felt more organic 2bh
>>321967937
There are edgelord games like that, most of them are just repetitive and shit.
>>321967881
If a Genocidal monster that could destroy you in one hit and was actively seeking you was near your town, would you stay and tell them your relatable problems?
So I'm curious.
How would the unsatisfied anons make the game better gameplay wise?
>>321966961
Cool story big guy ;^)
>>321960971
>Finish the jesus route
>Time to rev up the genocide run
>game begs you not to play it anymore because fictional characters feelings
I want to walk up to Toby Fox and say "it's just a game, mane"
>>321968448
HARD MODE HARD MODE HARD MODE
Also make it so Alphys updates don't interrupt your movement
>>321968204
i don't mean edge though, there's value in looking at things in other ways, all i'm saying is these games seem to make things so simple, and don't commit to examining morality in full. they just say "you can be a good guy or a bad guy", none of them capture the anxiety of what it means to try and be a good person, none look at the shallow morality we are fed, just perpetuate it. none look at how flimsy morality becomes when others are involved and how their damage makes them see things differently. these are scary absurd things being handled so simplistically, and sure maybe the simplicity of it has weight but it'd be nice if someone tried something that felt muddy and confusing.
>>321968448
Hard mode upset me the most. Maybe more bosses, I thought grillby would be fun.
>>321968860
Some other guy already said this, but that's tabletop, coding something like that just sounds like a bitch, not to mention the endless hours writing.
I do get your point, but go too far and you end up with games like postal and hatred.
>game has forgiveness as one of its main themes
>making nearly any evil decision permanently brands your profile across all future playthroughs
the faggotry is immense with this one
![AmabR7h[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/eGmPDAT.png "AmabR7h[1].png")
>>321968642
>>321969045
No, only full genocide will mark future playthroughs.
>>321969358
>only full genocide will mark future playthroughs.
Killing Skeleton brother makes Sans hate you forever
>>321969146
>tfw I did this and then did a full true pacifist mode before deleting the game.
I still have a little folder on my computer called "fuck you chara"
>>321963568
:--D oh fug
>tfw I still haven't touched the game since beating it on true pacifist for my first run
Okay, listen so I just finished True Pacifist.
It was all nice and etc, but I don't really get the fucking goat kid = Flowey = Chara -twist.
Like how did giving DTM to a flower make it inherit Asriel's soul/mind? I thought Flowey was supposed to be soulless? I might've missed something.
>>321969606
come ooooooon, you should kill them all! It'll be fun!
Think of the reactions that you will get when you completely destroy what you worked for
>>321968448
More actual bosses in genocide route. Seeing Mettaton with another battle sprite and then not getting to fight it proper rustled my jimmies something fierce. Same with Asgore and Flowey. Being able to fight Chara would also have been cool.
>>321969659Remember when Asriel died? Monsters turn into dust, and normally the monsters would spread the dust on their favorite things to hold their essence. All of Asriel's essence was fallen onto the flower plucked by Alphys, the first flower. It was Asriel without a soul.
>>321969606
Me too but that's because I can't really be bothered with the game anymore due to lack of interest.
>>321969659
Asperger scientist was retarded and took flowers from the gravesite of asriel. His soul still lingered since he had absorbed a human soul and it ended up being trapped in a flower with determination. Think of it as a prison inside a soulless body.
Basically Alphys fucked up bad.
>>321969708
I don't wanna.
Genocide route is basically one step away from being an easter egg considering how out of the way it is.Complaining about it being hard or tedious is like complaining about how it's unfun trying to get out of the map to see a developer hidden texture in an FPS.
>>321969971
Your opinion is simply wrong.
Genocide run is not hidden or obscure at all.
>>321963614
>it's an entirely unexplored avenue
>mentions a game that explored that avenue better 20 years ago literally 2 seconds later
You're either the dumbest motherfucker on the planet or a brilliant satirist
>The song of being open about your gay ass feelings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzQyP99Q0pE
>>321969971
No, this comparison will never make sense because the most challenging boss fight in the game is genocide-exclusive.
>>321970237
>this theme is also based in the Undertale main theme
holy shit how does Toby do it?
there's like 25 versions of it, and they are all different
this one almost doesn't resemble it at all
>>321970356
Lots of games have hidden overpowered boss fights
>>321960971
The game is tedious no matter what run you do.
>>321970456
That's called a motif, I think.
>>321970456
It's just a matter of changing the theme, the tempo, and the style. Music is seriously adaptive like that.
>>321965879
>those are just exposition dumps with sad music playing to licit a response from the player.
And what's wrong with this?
I mean that's literally the way to create scenes that convey feelings and get emotional feedback from the viewer. How else would you do that in audiovisual media?
>>321970456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OqigCz2S1w
You're talking about this, right?
>>321969428
It didn't on Neutral run atleast.
>>321970540
Hidden, non-joke boss fights aren't easter eggs what the fuck am I reading. Also Undertale being as short as it is incentivises people to exhaust its meaningful gameplay content.
>>321963614
so in other words it's postmodernism, the game, and therefore shit. keep that cancer to literature and history and leave my video games alone you fucking faggots
>>321970925
yes, if you hear closely, it resembles that song
>>321969863
>>321969934
Thanks, senpai.
I personally enjoy "the actual villain is actually the flower that is actually your best friend that is actually your previous soul cycle or whatev" meta.
captcha: dearborn dr
>>321969784
>Being able to fight Chara
But on genocide mode you ARE chara.
>>321971425
no, you are frisk going nuclear and killing everything, and then chara starts controlling you, that's why you meet him after killing flowey and why he talks to you like you are Chara
>>321971614
Chara starts taking control very early on. All the flavor text is narrated by Chara.
>>321971425
Would have been cool to fight him when he appears to you at the end if only to make the point that you don't need him to kill everyone
>>321970223
>it's an entirely unexplored avenue
he's saying that the idea undertale was commenting on a certain type of RPG player was unexplored. 'nobody has ever considered that undertale was a commentary, the idea of undertale as a commentary is an unexplored avenue.'he's being sarcastic because it's obvious and OP should know that.
I don't even want to do a genocide run. I just wanna get my shit kicked in by Sans. Is that too much to ask?
>>321965179
>liquid jew
Alcohol?
>>321961164
>a product that is suppose to be fun was designed not to be fun
Genocide Mode should have gone full Touhou.
You could have grinded through impossible challenges by throwing a bunch of enemy types in the same party, hard to avoid patterns, bullshit amount of enemies in one party. You would go through all that effort just so you can see those numbers go higher and you could tank every blow that came at you. It wouldn't be fun at all, but you did it. For no other reason but because you had to.
Toby just told you that you should feel bad for caring about numbers. He never actually made you do anything for that to ever be true.
The only bad time that was had was being incredibly bored of fighting Jerry for the 10th time.
Why should I care about killing these monsters when they already have killed me way more times then I ever killed them?
>>321969971
how is killing monsters in a game an easter egg? think about what you just wrote.
>>321960971
Not bad.
>>321960971
I agree. Undertale certainly isn't a good "GAME" but as long as you cater to "muh feels" people are willing to ignore that fact.
>>321972947
Exactly. No one's intimidated by Frisk in a pacifist run, so it makes sense for him to only rarely get ganged up on. If you become a genocidal maniac however, gang ups should be more common, with 4, or even 5 enemies joining together to wreck your shit.
Eventually encounters become unavoidable, and enemies start to appear in place of defeated enemies, and sure enough, ACT begins to fail.
>>321960971
The encounter chance is reset whenever you move screens. I basically just held left, alt tabbed, continued texting, battle ensues, do it, walk to a new screen, walk back, repeat. Usually next to a save point too. It was pretty fast. Tedious, but fast.
Also, just beat Genocide. Only came for the Sans fight anyway and was not disappointed. I had fun. Undyne was a bit harder to me. Swear the input on the DDR sections are slightly off.
>>321972947
>he never actually made you do anything for that to ever be true.
He made it boring. That's far worse than making it an entertaining challenge.
Also if I remember right you can flee from Jerry and leave him in the underground alone. That's how bad Jerry is, he doesn't count.
>>321972947
so much this.
if genocide mode actually made me feel like the embodiment of genocidal intent instead of telling me 'welp, you killed everyone, what an ass you are, have an entry level 2hu boss' I would probably like undertale a lot more than I do.
remember that insanely huge number that sephiroth's special move did? I expected shit like that
its not supposed to be fun OP, that's why the two best boss fights in the game are locked behind it.
Fuck that lazy piece of garbage toby, can't even bother finishing a fucking gamemaker rpg and has the balls to charge you 10$ for it.
