In the end who was a better hero: Big Boss or Solid Snake?
Venom Snake.
Solidous
Solid Snake never became a bad guy.
>>321951595
>>321951919
those aren't the fucking choices
Solid
>Averted a nuclear crisis
>Beat FOXHOUND
>Defeated the patriots and Ocelot
Big Boss
>Beat up some slavs in durka durkastan
>>321951491
Solid Snake
/thread
raiden
Solid Snake was the real hero. While everyone else was taking the Bosses will in their own weird ads interpretation Solid was the only one to truly understand.
>>321951994
Raiden
>>321952195
This
Can Snake do this?
>>321952283
This is SFM right?
>>321951491
The Parrot
>>321952283
that webm looks like shit
apply yourself
>>321951980
They are both technically bad guys.
>>321951980
Neither did Big Boss.
>hero
Neither. They're killers, not heroes.
>>321952283
That really unsuspends my disbelief more than anything.
>>321952272
>not ayy lmao raiden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0
>>321951491
You realise the character on the right is solid snakes body with naked snakes head right?
>>321953894
realize*
Solid by a large large margin.
Not that he didn't make mistakes, but he was the only one who was true to himself.
Out of all the protagonists, he was the one with the least confusion and that also includes all the supporting cast and main antagonists.
Big Boss lived to forever carry with him his mommy issues he got from The Boss. So he never trully fought for himself, but for a vision of the world he inherited and misinterpreted from The Boss.
Liquid Snake had a gigantic inferiority complex and daddy issues that lead him to litterally lash out at the world in revenge in order to prove his own worth.
Solidus was a decently relatable character, but he was also obsessed with becoming somewhat of a new Boss.
Raiden was...well we don't even need to go into his character. He is PTSD incarnated.
At least Solid Snake always trusted in his own abilities to make his own path and not try to relive the legacy of others or try to prove himself in comparison to another person. Snake learned on the battlefield how to appreciate his own life, his own worth and his own potential and when he went out to fight against the Patriots, he went out of his own will to do so and his own will to make a difference for others and not for the world or a lost comrade even though he ended up being played by them in the end.
Out of all of them he's the only one who trully got out before dying. The only one to live by the sword without finishing at the end of one.
Wait, they're different people?
>>321953414
Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive
THE WORLD IS BETTER OFF WITHOUT SNAKES
>>321953058
It's kind of a common theme in the games that no one seems to notice.
>>321954093
>So he never trully fought for himself, but for a vision of the world he inherited and misinterpreted from The Boss
He did understand it. In PW he makes the conclusion that it's a shitty world where soldiers have no place and felt betrayed, and thus went out to do the exact opposite: a world with constant war, where soldiers are free to fight for whatever they believe in.
Can Solid lift a fucking Metal Gear?
No?
Then the answer is simple.
>>321953058
From a certain point of view.
Venom
Raiden is the most heterosexual person in the series.
>>321953894
Not gonna lie, I completely missed that
>>321955503
He actually is because he's the only one so far who is confrimed to have a wife and a son.
>>321955193
I guess Dr Doom is a better hero than Mr Fantastic
The answer is obvious
>>321951491
Solid
Solid Snake never made a plan to build a special snowflake nation because he was butthurt over the death of his waifu. He took the hits like a man and dealt with shit as it showed up in his life. You learn a bigger lesson- a positive one- from Snake than you ever do from Big Boss, who as of MGSV is a legitimate asshole that only cared about what HE wanted and only learned his lesson in the last few hours of his life.
I have no idea what made Kojima so butthurt about Solid, so much that he made every last MGS game about his military messiah husbando Big Boss. Solid Snake is more "human" than BB ever was.
>>321953894
He's presented as Solid Snake, he simply has a beard. You realize they look identical right?
Gotta say, as much as I hate the fact that they left out Hayter for fucking Sutherland of all people, I'm getting used to him. Resignation, I guess.
Also, I was gonna complain about how they gave Ocelot such a different voice in TPP, but it turns out it's very similar to his voice in MGS1.
>>321955650
Isn't Dr. Doom's motive to unify the world so the future won't be shit?
I don't know anything about comics so correct me if I'm wrong.
Better question.
Naked Snake vs Venom Snake.
>>321955935
Yeah man, that's why I said he's the better hero.
>>321955650
He is though...
>>321952156
>defeated the patriots
Fuck no, he was about to kill Liquid and keep the patriots relevant for another century, it was Otacon, with the virus Sunny completed from Naomi that was able to destroy the patriots, and even without that, Ocelot had a plan to destroy the patriots AI with the rail gun.
Besides if we go for nuclear crisis everybody at least stopped one.
BB in Snake Eater, OPS, PW twice(Paz wanted to launch a nuke against usa)
Venom in MGS V
Solid Snake in MGS1, and probably MG MG2
Raiden MGS2
>>321955830
It's not resignation. Hayter was a shit voice actor. Go back and listen to that stuff - it was corny and shit like something out of a really low-budget anime dub. One of the appealing factors of Metal Gear was that there was some stupid cartoony shit in the game and Sutherland demonstrated that the voice acting could be great and the game could still retain it's stupid belief-suspending bullshit like fultoning tanks and animals.
I managed to take off my nostalgia goggles, Sutherland was simply better and I honestly wish we had him from the start. I wish they wrote more lines for Sutherland but that was a fuck-up unrelated to his ability to voice Snake.
As for Ocelot, resignation is probably the right word. I keep telling myself that Phantom Pain Ocelot is actually "regular" Ocelot during a time when he doesn't have to play spy or deceive anybody. He's just a regular guy with a pet dog.
>>321953894
You do realize they are genetic clones and the Snake model was much more detailed than in MGS2
>>321955193
He should be able to. Him having BB's strength explains why Psycho Mantis could not have torn him with TK, or how he was able to CQC Vamp, or why he felt confident about chasing after Liquid Ocelot and RAY while unarmed, or how he didn't break his fists while punching the shit out of Grey Fox.
solid snake for being the only character in the fucking series to carry out the boss's will
>>321952225
>Solid Snake was the real hero. While everyone else was taking the Bosses will in their own weird ads interpretation Solid was the only one to truly understand.
The boss will was stupid, and even Solid Snake knew, that's why he believed and followed what Grey Fox told him about fighting for himself, and not for a goverment, which Grey Fox learned from BB, about not being of anyone except themselves and fight for what they believe for, and then you have MGS4 with let the world be, which is almost the opposite of what Solid Snake believed in MGS2, fight for a better future and change the world.
>>321955725
tbhonest he probably did it for sales
obviously solid was the "bigger" boss, that's easy for even the average gamer to see, but kojima also needs to appeal to the other gamers who are more into the alpha males/war hero/narcissist types, so between the both of them kojima has everyone covered
>>321956710
The boss will was stupid, being a puppet was what made the philosophers a thing in the first place.
Solid Snake ideal from MGS2 was the right one, fight for a better world and future, not about putting your gun down like the boss did.
>>321956585
He was fine as Solid in 1 and 2.
That voice didn't fit Old Snake or John.
>>321951491
Depends.
I say BB, unless we are only talking about Solid Snake from MGS2, which not only had the right idea but also learned from his mistakes of MGS1 and teached a young raiden about the right thing to do.
>>321956995
whats wrong with old snakes voice?
>>321956585
Hayter should have never voiced BB.
Solid, Liquid, and even Solidus, the perfect clone of Big Boss, all had different voices, but SS just happens to be the only one to inherit BB's voice?
>>321956961
Yea that is true. I retract my previous statement
>>321956585
Check Ocelot's voice in MGS1 --much better than 2 and 4.
I really like Hayter's take on Snake. I feel like it goes well with the retarded shif in the series. Sutherland is generic as fuck.
>>321951491
Solid Snake. I mean, you could have asked who was the best character. Big Boss is a bad guy.
>>321956585
PP Ocelot is Ocelot pretending to not be pretending to be a cowboy
>>321955725
Well, you need MGSV to establish that BB is an asshole especially after PW painted him as a great guy.
Remeber his speach to Solid Snake at the end of MG2? Remember how he was raising child soldiers to participate in wars that he would ignite? The fact that Big Boss mutilated one of his most trusted men into being another Big Boss, whose main goal is to help fan the flames of war, fits in perfectly with his characterization in MG2. It shows that he views his soldiers as disposable. Venom dies? He could simply pick any random soldier into being Venom 2.
Big Boss isn't meant to be your friend at that point in time. And since he's going to be preparing Zanzibarland while under the guise of FOXhound after the events of TPP, he was never meant to go full nuclear. Kojima didn't paint BB as a messiah in TPP, but as a manipulative bastard.
>>321955757
Snake doesn't have facial, only a mustache
>>321952225
>>321956717
I'm still mad how they blew the boss's will completely out of proportion and actually made it a central theme for like 2 games.
Jesus fucking christ
Big Boss was the better soldier
Solid Snake only beat him because Boss was old at the time
That being said, Solid Snake was a better human being and made better morality choices
>>321958356
PW did not paint him to be a great guy though. By the end of the game BB had already:
-Denied the boss
-Acknowledged the tittle of Big Boss
-Recruited and army
-Recruited child soldiers
-Had a nuclear equipped base
-Decided to keep fighting "the times"
He is only painted as "good" because he is meant to resonate with the player as the main protag. You understand his circumstance and appreciate the slippery slope that he has started to fall down. In my opinion, it would have been better motherbase from Peace Walker transitioned into Outer Heaven. That seems to be the way it was set up originally at least, as after the final credits BB refers to Mother Base as Outer Heaven
>>321953058
They were both presented with the circumstances to become bad guys but one went down the path a beaten villain and the other rejected that path and went down the path a hero.
The main difference between Solid Snake and Big Boss everyone seems to miss.
>Venom Snake honorably dies in single, fair combat with Solid Snake, only losing to Snakes strongest weapon
>Big Boss attacks Snake while he's completely unarmed but Snake still kicks his fucking ass
>>321956181
Naked Snake as in Big Boss as his MGS3 skill level or Naked Snake as in Big Boss in general?
>>321956445
So why was Ocelot considered a bad guy anyways? He wanted the patriots gone as much as much as the others did. Was it due to his methods of trying to get rid of the Patriots AI?
I'm iffy on MGS4 story, haven't played the bitch in years
>>321959648
>discussion is about Snake
>post Pliskin
Come on!
>>321959648
That's not Snake. That's Pliskin.
>>321959773
Ocelot was good for wanting The Patriots gone but he just wanted another Wild West and to please his husbando
He's literally insane, and pretending to be Liquid by acting way more over the top than either he or Liquid ever were was retarded
>>321959238
venom snake lost to solid because killing him would cause a time paradox. it wasnt a fair fight or anything
>>321959857
>>321959857
same person
Solid Snake tried be alone and when that failed to get rid of everyone else's bashit plans.
Liquid Snake fought because he was still mad about losing to a phantom.
Naked Snake fought for a mishmash of reasons related to his feelings on being a soldier and the death of the Boss.
Raiden relapsed on trying to get away from killing multiple times, and platinum studios wants it to happen again for a MGR sequel.
Venom Snake is an obedient pawn.
Anybody who doesn't pick Solid Snake is a complete retard and missed the point of the games.
>>321960272
pliskin IS solid snake. and look he's got a nice beard.
>>321960503
I haven't played TPP but does Venom get informed that it's all a clever ruse and he's not BB?
>>321960656
Solid Snake died on that tanker 2 years ago, that isn't Snake.
>>321960774
you're sounding like the cornel and that foos always wrong or lying
>>321960746
yes
and he likes it
>>321951491
Raiden is canonically the best Snake.
Then it's Solid, who's basically a polished version of Big Boss.
Raiden > Solid = The Boss > Big Boss
>>321961451
what's so good about raiden?
>>321955593
But Big Boss fucked Eva and Paz, and Solid had a thing for Meryl. Also Solid couldn't stop ogling at women during MGS 4.
>>321962030
The fucking is implied, but never confirmed. So is Snake's relationship with Meryl. Lots of flirting with no actual action.
At least with Raiden, you know they dated, you know they lived together and had a life together and that they had a kid together which implies that they had to fuck unless he really is Roy's boy or some other Albino nigger's boy or some shit.
