Can you think of another franchise that had back to back solid games like the Legend of Zelda did?
Tony Hawk, at least up to THAW.
>Underrating of the original games
>Thinking Wind Waker is good
Go to bed, kid. It's past your bedtime.
>>321934098
>cd-i games were good
Okay "kid"
>>321933736
Metal Gear had some solid games in the series IIRC
>Twilight Princess didn't make the list because that's when OP grew up
Castlevania
>>321934248
The CD-I games aren't the originals. What a dumbshit you are.
>>321934594
So you don't know what "back to back" means. Neat.Also Zelda II is not solid by any means. Deal with it, nerd.
>Oracle Zeldas.
Woah there son. I'm the biggest Zelda fan in Kansas, and I know you need to re-examine your definition of quality if you would put those any day of the year over Zelda 1 or AoL.
While we're at it, TWW has not survived as gracefully as other Zelda games to own its acclaim. But the first offenders there are the Oracles, so I'll let you realize TWW's incongruity on your own.
>>321934098
>thinking 1 and 2 are good games
>still thinking wind waker is bad
Isn't it past your bed time old man?
>>321935183
Oracle Zeldas are way better than Zelda I and II.
>>321934385
More like, Twilight Princess didn't make the cut because Nintendo released a crappy version that 9:1 people bought.
>>321935436
Oracle Zeldas are way better than every other Zelda that isn't Link to the Past and Wind Waker.
>>321933736
Ratchet and Clank
>>321935393
>>321935436
Nah. You're wrong.
Oracles don't even touch the nonlinearity and depth of the originals. Oracle games have zero replay value. Even if you had access to a collection of every ring in the game from the get-go, they would still have no replay.
Zelda 1 and AoL evolve as the player's own skills grow. The markings of a true Zelda game.
Zelda's been awful longer than it has been good.
>>321935753
I hated Link Between Worlds so goddamn much.
>>321935615
You can't compare the Oracles to Wind Waker because 2D =/= 3D
LttP is better than Seasons, but not Ages imo
>>321935739
The Oracle games have much more linearity, I'll give you that. But they are way deeper than the original games from gameplay mechanics, physics, dungeons and overworld interactions. And the games actually have a lot of replay value due to the Linked Quests and Hero Mode for each version.
>>321935753
>This is good and this is bad!
Cute
>>321935753
>All of the good games are 2D.
That's all I have to say.
>>321935753
It surprises me when people make a list where they like ALttP, but hate OoT.
They have the same problems.
Wario Land
>>321933736
Stoped playing at Majora's Mask, got into PC since then. Tried emulating TP and WW but didn't feel right.
>>321934930
>you don't know what "back to back" means
I'm assuming you aren't including spin-offs, since 4 Swords is absent.
>Zelda II is not solid by any means
Past the graphics, Zelda 2 is a fantastic game, and is definitely a worthy and important addition to the series.
StarCraft
>>321935753
Out of curiosity, explain why you think the games you've posted are bad.
Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game that's not the original.
>>321936681
What same problems do they have
>>321937323
>easy dungeons
>boner for eyeball bosses
>heavier emphasis on story
>less to explore than the original game
>>321935753
>>321935902
>>321937598
When did people start disliking a Link Between Worlds? The great reception it got was disgusting and it makes me feel good that people are finally starting to come around and see that it's shit
>>321934930
I second this zelda 2 is even worse than zelda 1. Link to the past is the first good one. Then links awakening and the gameboy games are only aight. Ocarina and majora looked game breakingly terrible when they first came out and are still unplayable shit to keep toddlers busy. Wind waker was a good return to form and would be a great game if it wasnt so fucking rushed and cut. Twilight princess is the best zelda to date. The ds games were shit. Skyward sword was shit. I dont care about the rest. Fuck master quest and links crossbow training Nd hyrule warriors or any other weird spinoffs i forgot. Im talking about you tingle rupee land game.
>>321938306
>Link to the past is the first good one
Ironic coming from someone complaining about Ocarina and Majora being "unplayable shit to keep toddlers busy."
>>321935753
>LttP SNES good
>LttP GBA bad
You just erased LttP from existence with your little good bad paradox there dumb fuck..
>>321938306
>Twilight princess is the best zelda to date
>all the problems of OoT with the addition of a garbage wolf form, easier combat, and an even emptier world
let me guess, you forgive everything because the exteriors of the dungeons looked cool or midna is your waifu
>>321936314
>Linked Quests and Hero Mode
What do those even do? Nothing besides ultimately sum up to the final boss right?
You could have had me if you said something about changing up partners in Seasons, but those things aren't cause for replay.
I used to be like you and defend Zelda ardently with everything I could get my hands on as a perk of their brand of game design, but a real fan knows when to admit that something is crap. The Oracle games are crap.
Miyamoto leaving the director's seat to that hack Fujibayashi is the worst mistake he's ever made. Fuji is 100 times worse than Aonuma and is the reason why they're linear when they were supposed to be remakes of Zelda 1.
>>321938465
>LttP GBA bad
Four Swords, you retard. Also, the GBA version of LttP is bad compared to the SNES version.
>>321938382
Not even good enough bait for me to post a fish meme/ 10
>>321938465
>dumbed down main game
>shitty Young Link voice clips
>worse audio quality in general
>Four Swords and not the good one
GBA version is inferior.
Zelda II was better than LttP.
>>321934450
The Metroid style games are all good, but of the originals II and IV kind of suck.
>>321933736
The ratchet and clank series was pretty fucking solid. I didn't really play anything after up UYA though.
>>321938609
It had more dungeons and more sidequests than any zelda to date. Not only that but an optional dungeon very reminiscent to paper mario style shit. It had so much going for it that a few shitty short bug hunts dont ruin it for me.
>>321938382
LttP was too linear and easy.
>>321935698
Great answer.
The first 4 are great games, with Deadlocked more than likely the worst one. Size Matters was a great PSP game, and the Future series was great, but the All 4 one was terrible, and Full Frontal Assault was god awful, and Into the Nexus was basically an expansion pack for A Crack in Time.
Over all 8/10 franchise, maybe the PS4 era will be great.
>>321938991
"linear" isn't a flaw
i'll admit zelda 2 is really underrated but the way items didn't factor at all into how you actually played the game was lame; lttp had a defined order to the dungeons that you could skirt around, items that factored into gameplay, and actually memorable dungeons instead of the completely forgettable affairs that the first two games were
>>321938306
>Wind waker was a good return to form
In terms of what?
The dungeons are the most simplistic in the series, it has a bigger focus on combat mechanics despite easy enemies, the overworld is nothing like previous titles when it comes to exploration and content, and the art style is radically different.
>>321939247
It is in a Zelda game. Zelda is about exploration.
>>321937598
>separating OoA and OoS
you monster!
>>321939469
zelda is a series of like 15 games, all of which are linear except the first one and Link Between Worlds
at this point it's quite clear zelda's a series about dungeons
first game does not define the series
>>321939524The dungeons were better and switching between past-present was more interesting than the seasons.
>>321939469
So then why are all the best games the linear ones?
>>321939786
They're not, you underage baby.
>>321939786
>Skyward Sword and Phantom Hourglass are the best
Uhhh
>>321939898
he's right; best zeldas are link's awakening, oracle of ages, four swords adventures, and twilight princess, which all just so happen to be linear
z1/lbw aren't the worst zelda games, but they're certainly not close to the best
.. I liked Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (GC).
Please don't hurt me.
>>321936986
4 swords came out after wind waker
>>321939898
>Waaaagh underage
Never fails
>>321940052
I meant ones like ALttP, OoT, and TP. >>321940094 has it right
>>321940271
>implying there's anything wrong with liking a Zelda before Skyward Sword
They all have better swordplay, puzzles, boss fights, NPCs, music, sidequests, items, and stories
>>321939247
He's trolling. ALttP isn't linear. In fact, Zelda II is more nonlinear.
Nonlinearity order of Zelda games (as far as I know):
>OoT/OoTMQ (I believe they're tied. OoT does one or two things MQ can't and vice-versa) - LoZ - ALttP - AoL - MM/LA (tied unless you're counting DX which is hard to factor in, since the dungeon can be completed anytime as long as you're not in another dungeon, and changes based on your progression) - PH - OoS - the rest of the series - ALBW*
*Note: ALBW is negative levels of linear, because what you do doesn't impact the game regardless of what order you do it in.
>>321940404
why do so many people get this wrong
Four Swords was bundleware for the GBA LTTP remake and fucking sucked; it had randomized dungeons (only 4 of them!), terrible combat, and generally just wasn't good
Four Swords Adventures was its own game for the Gamecube and it rocked; 24 dungeons that were actually designed competently (I'd call a lot of them some of the best in the series), a sick new item system, some of the best combat in any of the 2d games, and general quality
>>321937598
oldfag here, I've played every Zelda on release, and if you seriously put Zelda 2 over any other main title in the franchise (not cdi, 4 swords shit) than you are a fucking retard.
I love Zelda 2, but it's easily the worst one.
>>321938638
Also, I should mention Oracle of Seasons I got for my birthday so I have a strong bias for it, as I specifically picked it over Oracle of Ages.
SO I mean, it's not "crap." But I can still assess its flaws that would not exist were it not for that man.
>tfw when one of the few people that loved the ds games
>tfw hardly anyone takes them seriously
It hurts.
>>321940728
>I'm older and you're retarded
why don't you explain how zelda 2 is the worst
>>321940728
It's better than Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, LttP, Twilight Princess, and Ocarina of Time,
zelda was generally pretty good up until twilight princess
couldnt even like that shit as a kid
>>321940728
>oldfag here
Zelda 2 is in no way worse than games like Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords (not Adventures)
>>321940974
Okay, trying to keep it short. What the series is best at is rewarding exploration and complex problem solving dungeons. Zelda 2 is just really weak in those areas. This is also why Skyward Sword is 2nd worst, with it's extremely confined world.
>>321941184
>in no way
actually it is in ALOT of way you retard
wow ur so hipster for liking a bad game lol
go play undertale faggot
>>321940671
LTTP forced you to do the first 4 dungeons in order; yes, it did give you a fair degree of leeway after that, but there were plenty of thing preventing you from finishing the 5 dungeons before Turtle Rock and Ganon's Tower in any particular way
>Needed the Swamp Palace and Thief's Town for Misery Mire
>Needed Skull Woods for Ice Palace
>>321940974
>>321941316
>2nd worst
Skyward Sword doesn't have a magic system and Zelda 2 has more challenging swordplay or hold your hand every area.
Skyward Sword is the worst in the series.
>>321941316
>This is also why Skyward Sword is 2nd worst
>same weaknesses as zelda 2 plus you're told what to do by your own sword
come on
>>321941570
Skyward Sword was better than Spirit Tracks but worse than Phantom Hourglass.
>>321940967
I consider PH to be a good game, and it's the reason I think Aonuma is not a total hack.
But Spirit Tracks is the bane of my existence. I hate that game. It's a piece of rail-road linear crap with a terrible storyline (no I don't care how funny ghost Zelda is. You can watch all her cutscenes in 5 minutes. That hardly makes a game good), and bad music except for the main theme.
>>321937456
LttP doesn't have a single eyeball weakpoint other than the boss that was literally an eyeball.
>>321933736
The Zelda franchise is the height of mediocrity. They are designed for ease of access for anything from 4 year olds to 60 year olds. The inoffensive gray cube of videogames
>Not being part of the elite master race of Zelda fans that appreciates ALL the mainline Zelda games and finds them all great in their own ways
Continue being plebs and constantly spending every thread arguing with people over which games are the "bad" ones, I'll just be over here if anyone else wants to truly appreciate the series.
>>321942446
>he thinks Wind Waker is great.
>>321942329
Part of the reason people liked Zelda in Spirit Tracks was because of how she added a new level of complexity to the gameplay in the Spirit Tower dungeon. You can't get that from just watching the game. Having Zelda and Link working together to sneak around the guards was a ton of fun and really unique design.
Zelda 1 is very basic and boring. The controls are stiff and awkward, because everything is confined to this 1 full step or one half step grid.
Zelda 2 is a fun game. Most people who bash it just jump on the bandwagon because of various youtube videos and just stupid, ignorant, popular opinion on the internet. Did you actually fucking explore what the game had to offer before judging it? I doubt you did. I've actually beaten the game, and it has cool bosses, good dungeons, enemies that are fun to fight, learning new sword moves and spells throughout the game is fun, etc. People hate it because it's not like the piss-easy games most people are accustomed to, and you have to actually be a little patient and know how to play it.
Link to the Past is the concepts laid out in Zelda 1 - but done right. It's not stiff / awkward / clunky anymore, because you can move in 8 directions and it's nice and smooth. The world layout / level design / dungeon design is great, the bosses are fun to fight, it's fun getting all the different equipment Link finds in each dungeon and learning how to use them properly, etc.
Ocarina of Time basically took LttP, removed half the content, and toned down the combat in favor of 3D graphics.
Majora's Mask was the first 3D Zelda done right, as a linear adventure game with no side quests is a paradox and is bad game design (e.g. OoT).
Wind Waker was really easy and boring, and you'll spend hours of each playthrough on the dead, boring, empty, lifeless ocean with no content.
Twilight Princess was great. The focus on story and characters was like no other Zelda game before. Getting the howling stones / hidden moves throughout the game was fun and a great motivator to keep playing.
Skyward Sword was also great. The motion controls worked well, fun bosses, good dungeons, etc. People just jump on the bandwagon and hate it because of the motion controls. They were good; the combat system was awesome, like in TP.
>>321933736
Dragons Quest series
SMT series
Civilization series
besides one black sheep per series, every single game is great
>>321935739
Bruh. The Oracle games were my first Zelda games and I still play them often. No replayability my ass, they're simply fun to play regardless of knowledge.
>>321942823
Except dragging around an escort for the entire game was the worst part of it.
>>321943042
Maybe you're right and I should play through them again before judging. I've only beaten Ages once, on my 3DS.
>>321937598
>Ages better than Seasons
>le Link's Awakening was good meme
Fuck off already.
>>321942850
>People just jump on the bandwagon and hate it because of the motion controls
I hate it because they recycle boss fights, the overworld is split up in the worst possible way, the sky in fucking SKYward Sword is fucking bare, Fi can't be turned off, Hero Mode has to be fucking unlocked, it doesn't remove tutorials/Fi and doesn't improve enemy AI.
Fights are also mostly an enemy twitching its weapon in angles for you to slash at with the more "difficult" enemies actually pushing you back. The dungeon design doesn't hide the fact that puzzles are the usual switch-hitting fare.
I also thought the in-game characters looked fucking ugly compared to their concept art.
It also had some pretty shitty enemy design and thanks to it, this shit that looked better in Wind Waker will never leave.
>>321942850
>the combat system was awesome, like in TP
>removed almost every single badass move Link could do in WW and TP
>Link can't swing without coming to a stop
>>321943207
She's not an escort, she's a fully playable character who Link needs to help solve the dungeon's puzzles.
Basically I see Spirit Tracks as doing what WW failed to do with its dungeons (switching between the 2 characters to get through a dungeon).. but in WW you had to play a song every time you wanted to switch to Medli/Makar which really sucked ass, but switching between Link and Zelda in ST was completely painless and worked fine.
I didn't mind the rails overworld in ST because it was a fun challenge trying to avoid the randomized demon trains, but I can see how you could be disappointed by it if you expected the atmosphere of WW's overworld.
>>321933736
kirby
perfect streak
>>321942446
Well, there hasn't really been a truly bad Zelda game. The worst of the Zelda titles are at least decent (barring the CD-i games, they don't count) and I don't see how people can say any of them are terrible. I can understand the hate some games get, though. Majora's Mask is probably hated by some for its constant time limit, for example.
>>321942823
Spirit Tracks was an enjoyable game, but only in dungeons, towns, and the like. Every single second spent on the world map/train was agony, and with that being such a large portion of the game overshadows the good.
It's the only Zelda game I own that I haven't played multiple times, excluding LBW due to recent-ness and MM3D because remake.
>>321943526
>muh Subrosians
>>321933736
Fallout has been having a good run
final fantasy between 6-10 and possibly 11 was a good run including FFTactics
someone would argue Mario, though not my favorite personally
Elderscrolls
There are no bad Nintendo or Capcom-made Zelda games.
>>321944565
>final fantasy between 6-10
Dd you just imply 4 and 5 are bad?
>>321933736
Can we take minute to realize how good a Zelda 2 remake would be with:
- proper SNES style sprites
- better controls
- hp + mp recharge over time
- better leveling
- less crypic more directed hits as what to do
>>321944880
Remakes always look better on paper.
>>321944787
Nope haven't really played them through yet on the list though, wouldn't surprise me if they were good.
>>321945101
Both 4 and 5 are some of the better FF games and include the best FF regular boss theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cJe5v5lLKk
>>321945101
4 and 5 are great. You should emulate them some time.
>>321935753
>Zelda II
>good
>Minish Cap
>bad
>>321944419
Finding the Noble sword in a sacred forest grove >>>>> having some old recluse chant "fix it!" backwards to a broken sword while you push beetles into holes
I also found Seasons to be a more engaging and believable mechanic than time travel, and the chaotic nature of them kept areas fresher every time you had to revisit them. Time travel where actions in the past only affect the future on so few occasions felt a bit hollow to me. Plus two different world maps as opposed to two similar ones.
I guess I just mostly prefer the aesthetics of Seasons, though I also like the core gimmick better, too. Ages just...wears you out faster. I have more fun in Seasons.
>>321937598
>Overrated and "Don't Deserve the Praise" are separate categories
Guess that's another term to add to the "buzzwords so overused they've lost all meaning" list
>>321945308
>implying Minish Cap isn't the weakest handheld Zelda after Four Swords
Ezlo is the best sidekick in the series though
>>321944880
>less crypic more directed hints as what to do
You'd be surprised at how fair the game actually is with hints if you give it a fair shot. It's true that it's a bit cryptic, but there's nothing that's completely unfair impossible bs. You should be able to figure everything out on your own if you take your time and make sure to listen to EVERYBODY before moving on with the game. The hints make more sense than people give the game credit for.
>>321943978
>judges it for what it doesn't do, and not taking it for what it is
>still thinks he has a valid criticism
>>321945638
Not him, but Minish Cap is my favourite handheld after Seasons. I love everything about it - yes, even kinstones.
>>321946065
>for what it is
Less impressive 1:1 than Wii Sports Resort and Nintendo Land? The same method capable of taking out every enemy including ones with large shields? Limiting your options to approach with the sword?
Wait, those things make it sound bad. I can't say anything negative or it invalidates my entire post.
>Skyward Sword is bad meme
every loz game up to tp was a timeless classic, the series was just that good. though alttp and oot were both a step ahead of everything else
alttp was literally the perfect top down action adventure, I'd even go so far as to say no game has been able to surpass it in it's genre
oot was a ground breaking foray into the 3d realm, it was years ahead of it's time
>>321946534
>Implication that Skyward Sword is good accompanied by bad Fi fanart
>>321946556
>every loz game up to and including tp was a timeless classic
Fixed that for you.
>>321944776
>>321946534
>[Zelda game] is good because my waifu is in it
>>321946293
>Limiting your options to approach with the sword?
what do you mean by this, exactly? I remember there being plenty of options for approaching enemies, including stunning them with a projectile and before going in with your sword when they're unguarded, or just killing them with an arrow... or just try your luck with the enemy's guard and try to 1-cycle it with your sword, etc...
>>321946791
unfortunately I played tp on the wii which completely ruined it
>>321946849
>what do you mean by this, exactly?
Limiting your options to approach with the sword.
Twilight Princess introduced a quick draw, a chargeable jump attack that could take out a crowd, and an attack the kill downed enemies so you wouldn't have to wait for them to stand back up. Wind Waker allowed you to disarm enemies and wield their own weapons. Both allowed you to parry in a multitude of ways.
>I remember there being plenty of options for approaching enemies, including stunning them with a projectile etc.
I would have been more disappointed with Skyward Sword if they had equally gimped the other items, but thankfully you can improve them. The beetle is one of the best items.
>>321946846
Correct
>>321946534
>>321946675
>>321946846
It's actually scientifically proven that cute girls can make bad games good, and cute girls make good games even better. Look it up.
>>321947049
Ah. I played it on the gamecube and absolutely loved it.
>>321947396
Din is best LoZ waifu
