>King of Evil
>even moreso then Bowser
>Bowser get an overhaul even though not a clone
>Ganondorf is left a clone, no projectile game even when he very well has a lot to choose from
>even changed his badass run from Melee into that "oh fuck i got to find the bathroom" run he has now
I just don't get it. Does Sakurai hate Ganon so much? What's his excuse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1UZfzfNt5Y
Just look how he gets shit on because of how little options he's left with that ancient moveset of his. It's just not befitting for the King of Evil.
Because Sakurai doesn't really give a shit. He shows very little love to properties that aren't his or ones that he is uninterested in.
Lots of veterans from 64 and Melee in general could use an update. 4's newcomers absolutely leave everyone else in the dust in terms of uniqueness and inspiration from source material. The others are relics from a different time in comparison. Just compare Mega Man to Samus. Sakurai said that he could just give Mega Man punches and kicks, but it wouldn't display the uniqueness of the character. But Samus has been like this from the very beginning. They probably couldn't create a projectile character like Mega Man in the N64 days, but they certainly can do it now.
I think some veterans should be re-examined to remove the lens of "returning Smash character" and instead imagine "what could we give this character now given our current abilities as if they were newcomers with no prior Smash moveset?"
>>321884672
I think the problem is that people have grown attached to their characters moveset, or at least Nintendo probably thinks this.
>Seeing Ganondorfs get shit on
Always a laugh.
>>321883007
Zelda isn't a good series anymore where Mario is still good.
>>321884924
True, I don't think they will ever completely change anyone's moveset, and people have the reasonable expectation to be able to pick up and play their mains similarly between games. But a Bowser level makeover would be welcome for many veterans. They didn't change much, just a few moves and animations, but he's a lot better for it. Just a few tweaks like make Ganondorf's sword custom the default or make projectiles come out of certain moves of Samus' would be good.
Bowser didn't really get an overhaul, just some minor changes to his kit. Some were in fact nerfs from brael.
>>321885715
It's probably the fact that he moves so god damn fast now that makes people think he's an overhaul.
Why would Sakurai care about a cool character like Ganondorf when there's more FE nobodies and fit trainer tier characters to add and shit up the game with?
>>321883007
Dufus, Ganon is literally Sakurai's favorite character. That's the reason why he doesn't get changed, because Sakurai loves playing him in casuals and think's he's perfect.
>>321885985
>makes Sheik completely overpowered so he can have a challenge.
This is what they need to do with 5mash:
Make Black Shadow to give dorf's old moveset to, with his own visual effects
Overhaul Dorf into trident wizard user wirh a little Hyrule Warriors style
Revert Lucina back into an alt costume, her gimmick of balance damage is useless when spacing is important to begin with and Marth is better off
Overhaul Dark Pit to use other weapon types, like the ones he actually used again you like violet Palm, Ez canon, ogre club etc his final smash should be the arrow air shots he did in his boss fight
Add in Paper Mario, but make his gimmick to be built around his Copy mechanic in M&L Paper Jam, where he is even lighter than Puff, and attacks do garbage damage but multiplies with his clones which take the special Button to summon, gives him super armor for each copy to be defeated and his attacks with get bigger range. His Down B for example can be setting up or throwing a bomb partner but with clones you'll have multiple of them
Add a new gameplay mechanic that takes advantage of techning to launch an attack automatically with no lag, made to counter ceiling's so we can have more legal stages
>>321886851
>>>>>>>>>black shadow
Stopped reading right there.
>>321886851
>overhauling Dark Pit and not Lucina
Lucina does have spears and bow & arrows you know. She could easily be decloned like Roy and how you propose DP to be changed. Just give Lucina her battle stance, a spear, a bow and arrow, and a more heavy-weighted, stabbing kind of style and she's good.
>>321887219
Or she can be like a melee robin, limited item use and shit
>>321887219
>bow & arrows
No she doesn't.
seems like a whole lot of work to fit a problem that isn't there. If you want to use a sword character that uses magic go use Robin
>>321884161
Thread should have ended here, but the usual arguments are just.
>Ganondorf having his trident
>Black Shadow taking his moveset
>Revamping the clones, etc.
Same ol', same ol'
The balance for heavies in smash in general is kind of fucked
>Heavies do more damage per hit than Lightweights
>Doesn't matter because fast top tiers combo them for double their damage
And they'll always justify it because
>Muh FFA where combos aren't as viable
ganondorf is fine stop being a faygot and get your own trifork of powder faggots
>>321886851
>Paper Mario
We don't need any more Mario characters.
We don't need three Marios.
We don't need every genre Mario has been in represented by a different Mario.
>>321886851
You can't win with Dark Pit
People will call him a waste even if you give him a unique moveset
Though I agree that's what should happen
Out of all of Nintendo's "Dark" characters, Pitoo is the only one with his own personality and style and isn't simply evil, he deserves the "Dark Clone" slot
>>321887125
You can't expect them to abandon his old moveset for 3 games and not have a replacement
Bowser still has his base attributes
But changing Ganondorf would need to overhaul him entirely %100
>>321883007
Modifying Gandorf to an actual relevant moveset requires work. Sakurai doesn't like to work when it comes to Smash, which is why you get 6 Fire Emblem characters and Lucina was a Marth clone, and the same reason why almost all sword users have the same counter move and similar moveset.
Sakurai is a cunt and I hope /v/ stops blindly defending and worshiping him because it's the trendiest meme thing to do.
>>321883007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC_GVW_wC9M
>Bowser get an overhaul even though not a clone
Bowser's still relatively the same. He got a better running speed, some visual changes and a better fsmash/back air and the useless tough guy armour, but fundamentally he's the same.
That said, I wish Ganon still got those types of changes. Make him glide instead of running like he has a dookie in his pants, since he's been known to levitate. Replace some of his moves with disjointed magic attacks (Jab could be like some sort of darkness burst instead of "talk to the hand").
I do like the idea of a Muscle Wizard. Just emphasize the Wizard part a bit more. Ganon's always been a sorcerer since the beginning, that should show in smash.
>>321885715
>Some were in fact nerfs from brael.
like what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I
>This could be Ganondorf's moveset.
>We're stuck forever with shitty Falcondorf.
Once again modders put more love into their work than game developers.
>>321883007
Why do villains in Zelda have darknails? Is Nintendo making a statement?
>>321894479
Why does Ganon paint his nails?
Is he goth or something?
>>321884672
it varies with the veterans
some just work and don't need grand fundamental changes or maybe even any at all (captain falcon, peach, ike, fox, marth, sheik, mk, etc.)
there's some that id like to get a complete overhaul, even newer guys (charizard, toon link, lucario, palutena)
>>321894479
What a faggot.
I bet all he wanted was Link's boypussy all along.
>>321894675
Toon Link and Lucario are good though
>>321883007
You know what's weird? Ganondorf is Samurai's main, it doesn't make sense.
>>321883007
That Ganondorf was horrid Jesus
>>321894675
In all honesty Cloud is more or less exactly how ike should be.
>fast but still packing a punch
>sword beams
Literally just change Clouds Side, Up, and Down Bs to Ikes and its perfect.
>>321894675
Charizard doesn't need a complete overhaul.
Just some fixes to buttons that don't work as they should and maybe some more airspeed.
>His tr4sh trophy claims that he soars through the air
>Just barely escapes bottom 5 airspeed at 6th slowest in the air
>>321883007
Wouldn't a projectile kinda ruin the balance, though? He already hits like a truck.
>>321895442
charizard has awful endlag on all of his moves
>>321895324
>Literally give shitty anime ike's ike special moves and make him ike and then he will be perf
thats the point silly.
>>321895729
Crusade did it where its a slow projectile with stun, but it can be knocked back by any attack like Dededes gordos multiple times and it grows more powerful each time its hit.2
>>321895792
That comes with being a heavy
He's pretty well off among the heavies with Jab and Dtilt being as fast as they are. Tipper Ftilt and Fair are also safe on block against most non tether characters.
>>321883007
That Ganon had no idea what he was doing against a Ryu, regardless of the fact that it's an unfavorable matchup in the first place.
Give the heavies (DK, DDD, Charizard, Bowser, Ganon) a Zair command grab just for the hell of it
>>321896081
Charizard is pretty much the worst superheavy
>>321894601
He is the only god damn man in his species.
>>321896390
King Dedede and Ganondorf are far worse.
He's evenish with Bowser post patch
>sonic STILL has 2 specials that are the same exact thing
I can excuse brawl due to sonics dev time, but there is NO excuse for this shit now. Give him the lightspeed dash, a boost, bounce bracelet, SOMETHING
I think Dorf is plenty different now to be considered his own full non-clone character.
>>321883007
Is it just me or did they make him even worse in this game than in brawl?
>>321896390
He's also the worst pokemon in Smash and one of the top 5 most garbage starter pokemon competitively so at least he's accurate.
>>321896815
>Smash 4 Charizard
>Worse than Smash 4 Puff
Charizard's bad, but he ain't bottom 5
>bowser bomb faggots all day
>side body slam off the edge if they have one stock while you have two
Why can no one seem to dodge bowser bomb online?
>>321896815
>worst Pokemon in Smash 4
Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Mewtwo
>bottom 5 Starters
Mega-Charizard X and Y say hello.
>>321889216
>Ryu is a heavy character who hits hard and has a great combo game
Now what?
>>321897110
Pikachu is a top tier m8
Mewtwo is probably better than zard in the newest patch
>>321897169
Ryu has Mario's weight, power, and attributes.
>>321883007
Why not play melee where ganondorf can be usable if you're good enough?
>>321896805
Not having autocanceled moves kinda hurt ganon pretty bad but not having access to a non frame perfect autocanceled dair makes him severely less fun to play.
>>321897085
>online
There's your answer faggot, bonus points for FG.
>>321897296
Ryu's heavy and kills people rageless at 80
mewtwo's a conflicting vet for me
his normals primarily consisting of tail whips and magic purple fire doesnt thematically sell his power well
but hes fun as shit with the latest buffs
>>321893948
>back throw into up air into Ganoncide
Beautiful
>>321884161
>sakurai helped in the making of greninja in it's initial blueprints
>it's just a bad sheik
>>321883007
>make samus complete and utter fucking garbage
>everyone knows she's broken by design
>hackurai has the gal to get up on stage and say that everyone thinks samus is the strongest
Do japanese people live in bizarro world and only emerge when they go to announce something?
>>321897296
Maybe in Street Fighter, but not in Smash 4
>>321886851
Why do people want black shadow? Seriously? People will bitch about him being a clone
>>321897674
She was probably very good in FFA with casuals playing. Then they nerfed her.
What they really need to do is get some competent playtesters so we don't end up with things like Marth and Samus broken hitboxes, and Lumas stupid hurtboxes
>>321894479
did they model ganon after reggie
>>321897720
It's not that people want Black Shadow. It's just an idea to ensure that people who liked clone Ganondorf aren't losing his playstyle if Ganondorf were to be de-cloned.
>>321896815
>one of the top 5 most garbage starter pokemon competitively
is this still gen 5?
y/n?
With how complex newcomers have been getting (Jesus Christ Bayo) it shouldn't be a farfetched idea.
>>321894601
When are we getting LoZ Ledgend of Zelda anyway?
>>321896805
You obviously don't remember just how bad Brawl Ganondorf was.
>>321897110
>pikachu
Pikachu is top 5, nigger.
His run really is the worst part.
His melee design may not be very true to the character, but everything about him projects strength. I love it.
>>321898332
>His run really is the worst part
That's not Robin.
>zelda and mewtwo's teleports are wonky and ride along stage ledges, gimping themselves
>palutena and sheik's teleports don't and clip right to the ledge
>sheik's is largely intangible and can also kill
>>321897969
He probably got caught with a couple charge shots in a FFA and overnerfed her, which is something sakurai has a tendency to do. See: Kirby from 64 to Melee
>>321898167
Fuck the people who like Ganondorfs moveset. If they like it why not just move on towards Captain Falcon? I main Ganondorf myself but if he were ever to get a complete overhaul and I liked his old moveset better I would just play Captain Falcon
>>321898490
And it has a windbox to push anyone away if you land on stage for some reason
>>321898183
not bad
i'd like for charizard to just have a fireball outright instead, maybe like a slow traveling, small-ish Fire Blast
>>321898628
Bowser's more known for fireballs than Charizard is.
>>321898551
>Ganondorf and Falcon
>Similar in playstyle at all
You are so dumb it hurts
>every game with multiple selectable characters or options has a "best choice", no shit
>but smash always has one single character that outright runs away with the game
does sakurai draw from a hat as to who gets to be the designated best for each installment
>>321898490
>palutena's teleport doesn't
Bullshit. Bridge of Eldin omega form is essentially a death sentence.
Okay /v/
I played OoT and didn't enjoy it a whole lot. It was fun but a confusing cluster fuck. Granted I hyped it up to be the greatest game ever made when I played it it was underwhelming
I've been told I would like the 2D Zelda games more. Is this true?
Which one do I play?
>>321898762
I play both and they feel similar. One is faster while the other is slower and stronger. The only differences between them are a couple of a moves and side b
>>321899081
ALttP was one of my favorites
>>321883007
>projectiles
I main Bowser and Zard, I dont need projectiles because im not autistic. Git gud
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I
This is how Ganondorf should play
>>321897571
Wait. So Sakurai is biased against Pokémon? Maybe that's why we only got one newcomer and a shitty weak version of Mewtwo for DLC while losing two unique vets.
>>321899760
>This is how Ganondorf should play
>Showing a video with 3 different gameplay styles for Ganondrof
So how should he play?
>>321900027
>So Sakurai is biased against Pokémon?
>pikachu is the only character that's been high or top tier in every game
>>321899760
Not another swordfag pls.
>>321900172
Moveset based off of OOT
>>321900298
Why? Why not a moveset based off TP or WW?
>>321900213
Pikachu's yellow fur technically makes it a blond, and given ZSS, Shiek and Rosalina completely dominating the meta, Sakurai clearly has a thing for blonds and blondes.
>>321899760
>a mod of a mod
>>321900473
Then why was Meta Knight so stupidly broken in Brawl?
>>321897674
It's so obvious that she used to be good too. Compared to her other aerials her bair is unusually powerful and her up air dair spike is surprisingly good too.
>>321900463
>>321900463
TP & WW are just him using swords although WW would be more unique but I want to see a sorceror/magic type moveset that we havent seen in smash before. All you have to do is change the zelda designs back to OOT and done
>>321900736
because sakurai made meta knight
>>321901257
Why was Kirby so bad in Melee then
>>321901657
because kirby isn't blond
>>321894479
Same reason why he wears headdresses.
>>321901774
he can be if he swallows certain characters
>>321901234
But Twilight Princess has the best design for Ganondrof
>>321898081
Other way around
>>321894601
They added that in the Space World demo to emphasize his fingers, because individual fingers was a Great Leap Forward. Why they kept it for his TP design I don't know. TP was darker and edgier I guess.
>>321898170
>>321897110
>Megas share the same ranking as the originals
AHAHAHAHAH look at these retards.
Charizard is ranked NU/RU, X is OU and Y is BL1/OU
It also took him 6 generations and 2 Megas to be in moderate competitive usage
>>321884672
My nigga.
I have nothing else to say, although it does depend on the character. Ganondorf and Samus most certainly need real overhauls.
>>321896561
No. I don't agree.
>>321899760
Oh look, a totally imbalanced amateur mod of an amateur mod.
How unique.
Where I can find the patch notes that isn't just a faggot telling how much better a character is?
>>321906370
Nintendo doesn't release patch notes
>>321899760
>nostalgic moveset!
Yeah nah.
>>321906578
Splatoon
>>321906370
Smashboards
>>321900027
Mewtwo was included because people were bitching endlessly about him
>>321885915
>This mad Ganon-baby
I can't wait until we get a Rhythm Heaven character in Smash 5 with all the unique moveset Sakurai will give him, and then destroy Ganondorf in the game as he keeps his old moveset ;)
>>321887219
>Dark Pit
>character from a game with 108 weapons with varying abilities amongst 9 movesets
Should be easy as fuck to de-clone.
Why was he nerfed?
>>321908129
>Silver bow has different properties to the Palutena Bow
>they're exactly the same in smash
>THIS
>FUCKING
>THREAD
>AGAIN
Yeah yeah yeah give Ganondorf a new moveset, yeah yeah yeah give it to Black Shadow.
Its the same shit people been saying around since Brawl. UNDERSTAND that its Sakurai and his team who are in charge of doing that and if he hasn't done it in 3 games by now, he is probably not going to do it. He will never ever add another F-zero character unless the series gets another game, and even then its a maybe. And even then, Sakurai would surely make an original character, rather than pass Ganondorf's moveset to him. (And guess what, Ganondorf is Sakurai's favorite character, so it even less likely now)
I just dont understand whats the fucking point of saying this "strategy" Nintendo could do over and over again, as if Sakurai or someone from his team will ever read this.
Why are all the super heavies such hot fucking garbage and lose in pretty much every matchup?Why do I find them so fun and can't stop playing them?
>>321908387
But Dankey Kang beats Shiek.
>>321908272
What smash game are you playing? They're different in 4. That being said, DP's Silver Bow is actually firing shots more akin to the Dark Bow in terms of power, homing, and appearance.
>tfw can't play right now because I broke my 3DS
SUFFERING
His dad reminded him of Ganondorf and now his dad is dead.
>give some veterens a new, more modern moveset
>keep their previous installation moveset as an alternative option
woah lad that was really hard
>>321908274
>ganondorf is Sakurai's favorite character
Is there a source for this or is it a bunch of retards repeating it so much that they think its true?
>>321909075
I meant the melee attacks.
Their arrow properties are backwards though. Palutena Bow has stronger arrows but Silver Bow has better homing (which is closer to the better control of the palutena bow in smash).
I don't think they need to rework his moveset entirely, just make his current one not shit.
>Jab doesn't come out on frame fucking 7 (at least it's not Palutena's jab, frame fucking 8 lmao, fox usmash frame 9)
>fuckstupid low knockback on down throw a la melee ganon
>nair and dair autocancel in a shorthop
>fair autocancels in a goddamn fullhop
>first actionable frame on flame choke grab changed so that buffering an action doesn't let you escape a followup
>aerial version no longer a forced suicide, can decide before descending to light meteor the opponent instead (falco phantasm/dk headbutt tier meteor)
>aerial wizkick restores double jump
>utilt can now be held in, but you MUST release it before being able to move again
Bam! Good character. While we're at it, remove intangibility on windup of shiek's up-b
>>321909206
Was his dad also killed by an effeminate elf?
>>321883007
Reminder that Ganon was the worst character in brawl.
Literally.
>>321886851
Everything you just said was retarded
But I do like the idea of Paper Mario having the clone gimmick
>>321909419
The only bow I've ever known to have decent melee attacks was the Dark Bow, so I don't remember the difference in properties between their melees.
>>321908985
EXPLAIN
>>321910330
IIRC Palu's bow had weaker melee.
That was the trade off.
Silver bow = stronger homing and melee, weaker shots
Palu Bow = stronger shots, weaker homing and melee
>>321910513
He doesn't.
He does surprisingly not terrible because he can kill her stupidly early with a grab, but still loses.
>>321901257
Sakurai isn't a consistent man, as evident in his interviews.
>>321910680
>>321901657
Replied to the wrong person.
>>321910679
Oh, I thought there was some secret I was missing. I know that he can fuck up fast fallers because the frame data on his aerials if he gets a grab.
>Grabbing a feather weight@ ~70%
>>321910585
I was never able to make a decent one of either of them. Only good bows I fused were Divine, Dark, Phosphora, and Aurum.
Plus I'm probably the worst melee fighter in the world, I always, always lose in clashes and I've no idea why.
>>321896767
>The down-b is called Spin Charge instead of Spin Dash, like in the games
>The side-b is more of a charging move than the other one
ONE JOB SAKURAI
ONE FUCKING JOB
>>321909343
I had to spoonfeed you faggot
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hayhkV1zGVA
>"Ah, yes. I've gotten many complaints about Ganondorf. Why doesn't he use his sword more? Why isn't he as powerful as he is in Zelda? Well, when I decided to add him in Super Smash Brothers, of course he was a late addition included only because his physical appearance was easy enough to model swap over Captain Falcon. So I couldn't do as much justice as I wanted with him, but I worried people would be upset if I left out such an important and striking character.
Ganondorf is somewhat of a contradiction---in Smash Brothers, he's both powerful, yet sometimes comes across as a little worn down, a little tired. In a way, he was greatly influenced by my late father who passed away shortly beforehand. As a child, I viewed my father as a strict-disciplinarian, a man I both feared and respected. But when I grew up, I realized my father, that man I was saw as a powerful figure---a king---was often out of breath, and limped along. I wondered why I feared him so much? And in a way, that's how I've developed Ganondorf as a character. Personally I'm quite close to the character, and thus I find it difficult to bring myself to change him too much."
>>321911353
Side B is also the most annoying fucking move for me. I recently had a realy long match against a Sonic where I saw how much the neutral B can fuck you up with its autoaim, so that and the down B should be enough.
At least hes not as bad as he was in Brawl
>>321911767
isn't that quote about his father fake?
>>321911353
>>321911783
What's the difference in practicality between the two moves? I've been playing since launch and I still don't know any difference between them other than charge method.
>>321883007
>caring about sm4sh
That's your first problem
>>321912510
one does a little hop
>>321913043
Does that do anything, though? Slow it down, do more damage, etc.?
>>321913524
It does a little hop
>>321911353
Treehouse are weed smokers confirmed
>>321892557
>People will call him a waste even if you give him a unique moveset
Not really. If he was a partial cone like some of the others where the only thing he shared with Pit was his specials, people would be alright with him. If he used the Staff instead of the bow for Smash attacks then he'd probably be more accepted. But just like Lucina and Doc, he was a last minute clone added to pad the roster.
>>321914041
Leave it to Sakurai to give a character the same move twice.
>>321898490
What is that retarded fucking image supposed to represent?
>>321884672
I feel like the only character from the old games (besides obviously Ganondorf) that could use a revamp is Samus.
I don't think every character needs to be a gimmick one. For example, despite being "simple", I like Mario's moveset as it is. He works as the game's starter character and is Smash's equivalent to Ryubefore they added Ryu.
It's why I never cared for the inclusion of FLUDD. Mario has a simple projectile, a simple uppercut/recovery, a simple reflector and in place of his simple spinning move is one of the weirdest and unorthodox specials in the whole series. In Smash 4 It's not nearly as bad as it was in Brawl, but still.
>>321914635
>. If he was a partial cone like some of the others where the only thing he shared with Pit was his specials, people would be alright with him.
You say that, and yet people still bitch about ganondorf as evidenced by this thread.
And Toon Link.
And Roy.
And Wolf, even though he's not even in the game.
And Falco.
And Ike despite not even being a clone.
Only clone/semiclone nobody has ever complained about is Luigi.
>>321914913
Its because he was the original clone
>>321914852
You know I never realized how big Sonic was in Smash4 compared to everyone else
>>321915067
Oh wow, I'm disappointed at myself because I didn't even begin to make that connection.
Thanks.
>>321915689
its k senpai
>>321886851
Balancing ceilings won't work because it was never the problem
Autists just can't stand having platform being in the way of a KO
>>321914635
Tell that to the Corrin shitposters
>>321892181
Doctor Mario doesn't need to come back, revert him to an alt costume
But Paper Mario does deserve it
It's not a simple power up, Paper jam is a stronger case that he's a separate entity entirely
Rosalina was only put in for her gameplay mechanic
Paper Mario could do well with the copy gimmick and not just a Game and Watch concept clone
We already have Paper Mario being represented stage wise
>>321914635
Anon were you there when the roster leaked?
Even before seeing Dark Pits moveset people were shitposting to hell and back just because he's on the roster
>>321917202
No I was too distraught over Ice Climbers not coming back.
>>321899760
I love the last one. I really just love how much the floating reminds me of his battle in OoT. And warping is cool. So is Phantom Ganon.
>>321917202
The strangest part was that /v/ was vehement that Dark Pit had NO CHANCE AT ALL of EVER being in the game.
>>321917528
You ever feel bad for phantom ganon?
Important Question:
If Next Smash Bros were to bring back transforming characters, should these two be lumped back into one character, or are they better off being separate?
>>321883007
People have already said it, but yeah, that Ganon sucks ass. Way too defensive and just terrible in general.
>>321918532
What's the point in lumping them back together at this point?
Samus was her own character essentially because she couldn't transform at will.
The only one they should bring back is Pokemon trainer because it had the fatigue mechanic.
>>321896767
>His aerial down b isn't bounce
>Or is side b isn't boost from generations and colors
One job and choices from a popular and recent nintendo exclusive. Thanks summer guy.
>>>321913524
Side b sends opponent flying up and to the direction sonic is going and when done mid air you can't stop it until you're grounded causing suicides
The down b is more of a multihit that has low knockback
Samus and Ganondorf are probably the two that could use a revamp the most.
>>321906578
>>321906702
I still find it amusing that Splatoon gets patch notes and Smash does not.
