Explain stealth games to me
Every fucking stealth game, there's "shadows" you hide in that are not dark at all, but as soon as you step on them you're fucking invisible. Together with that, all enemies have retardedly predictable patrols and NEVER look around, their cone of vision NEVER changes from the front of their body.
There's never any actual darkness.
The ONLY games where stealth didn't feel fucking retarded are Riddick games and Crysis (which has literal invisibility, but you still feel more challenged than step-in-black games). Maybe commandos as well.
And none of these are "stealth" games.
>Metal gear
>Stealth
>>321864210
VIDEOGAMES
A
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>>321864765
video juegos¿?
Explain this
>>321864210
>NEVER look around, their cone of vision
only partly true, metal gear does a pretty good job at this, also game with flashlights often use this.
But I want them to look around as immersive and responsive like in Witcher 3 or scripted stealth like the MGSV intro.
>>321864210
But dishonored isn't a step in black game, neither is metal gear, and both of those games guards actually look around.
They suffer from predictably paths because stealth games wouldn't be very fun I'd you're being detected from unpredictable AI. it's meant to represent patrol routes, something guards have been assigned to and can't deviate from.
OG thief has actual darkness that makes sense and old splinter cell too.
Crysis stealth is fucking terrible. It's just an on/off switch.
Riddick was great.
>>321865427
>They suffer from predictably paths because stealth games wouldn't be very fun I'd you're being detected from unpredictable AI. it's meant to represent patrol routes, something guards have been assigned to and can't deviate from.
Look at Crysis 1. It seamlesly transforms from guard patterns to dynamic AI if they are alerted.
The developers of Thief 4 tried to create a game where AI would adapt and react and search areas properly and calculate where noises had come from.
Playtesters who were "stealth experts" fucking hated it. So the developers went and made the AI shitty and slow and with goldfish-grade memories. The shitty, predictable AI in stealth games is the cornerstone of the genre.
>>321865615
Yeah so does metal gear.
>>321864210
Actual "stealth" in real life is comparable to some aspects of Hitman games, if anything. You're concealed in the open by blending into everyday life. Tiptoeing around from shadow to shadow as legally blind soldiers see you then forget you existed, or find dead bodies and either don't react or forget about them minutes later isn't a real thing.
The human eye can see someone moving on a horizon a long, long way away. About as far as light stars to diffuse through the local atmosphere. In stealth games people cannot see anything in their peripheral vision, whether side to side, up or down, nor more than about 10 feet in front of themselves. You're hiding from tiny floating vision cones, not people.
reminder that this is the new name of death to spies 3 in case it slipped by anyone
you can still find the demo if you look up "dts 3 demo"
http://store.steampowered.com/app/406720/
>>321864210
Lack of creativity. A game did it first or did it better, so everyone just copied it without even bothering to try and improve it.
>>321865638
You actually believed those incompetent fucks?
The same people that said they loved the setting and planned on respecting it?
Could Metro 2033 be considered a stealth game?
I never understand why people get so caught up on hiding in shadows. Yeah it's unrealistic but so much shit in all sorts if games is similarly unrealistic and hardly anyone complains. Same with AI, it's dumb but AI that's too smart would just be no fun. If it was unpredictable then you'd end up with situations where you get caught for no apparent reason and that's just annoying.
Anyway, Thief is "actually" dark. Not in a realistic way but that's just part of the game's style. Same with Splinter Cell.
stealth games are puzzle games
puzzle games are supposed to have pre-defined patterns
stealth games are supposed to have pre-defined patterns
it's not hard to understand
>>321865615
What is every stealth games A.I. ever
So....the latest thief entry is shit, right?
>Mark of the Ninja
This is a weird one. It's a side stroller 2D game, which might turn some people off immediately, but it's actually way better than modern stealth games. Sound and shading are clearly defined, AI isn't complete bullocks and you don't actually have to kill anything most of the time. The variance in abilities, killing traps and distractions add to the overall feel of the game, and getting caught isn't an immediate death sentence. Only thing I can say is wrong with it is that most of the upgrades encourage killing even though you get a huge bonus for not killing, and the animation really doesn't fit the theme. Imagine Barbie dolls slitting each other's throats.
>>321866802
Yup
>>321866502
I dont know if they fixed it in the redux but when i played 2033 stealth was broken as fuck so no
>>321866154
I'd bump mark of the ninja up to the great tier. It's fucking awesome.
>>321866231
This. If games modeled perfectly after real life they wouldn't be any fun at least not the way they are now you would have to change the gameplay so much it wouldn't be even close to this and I can't even imagine how you would do it to make it fun.
I liked the stealth segments in batman games.
>Stealth games
>nobody ever mentions tenchu
I HATE THIS FEEL
>>321866154
Blacklist is much better than it's ranking, the overreaction to it happened entirely before release
Especially since you're claiming fucking Dark and AP are better stealth games
Mark of the Ninja's perfect
Styx is nowhere near a bunch of games below it
There's also weird stuff like Deus Ex (x2) being better stealth games than Nolf, that's just false
>>321865427
Dishonored a shit.
>stay on the rooftops
>kill 500 dudes
>still low chaos/good end
>>321864210
Stealth games are about beating predictable behaviour
Even in Alien Isolation with an adaptable enemy or Invisible Inc with a turned based system the stealth is still about working out what the enemy will do and negating it
>>321866154
>Ass Creed
>decent tier
Literally stopped there. How low can the bar be if asscreed is anything above "complete shit" tier?
>>321867361
>tfw Tenchu 2 is overrated and Tenchu 3 is one of your favourite games of all time
>>321866154
>Pandora Tomorrow below original Splinter Cell
I never get this, it's just the original with cooler levels.
>>321868067
ma nigga, wrath of heaven is the shit
>>321868113
Probably because it was done by Ubisoft Shanghai, who also did the next-gen version of Double Agent. Maybe that's the reasoning?
>>321868326
Yeah but that doesn't make Pandora Tomorrow itself a worse game.
>>321866876
actually it was perfect in 2033 and broken in redux, you must've just sucked at a game with legitimately realistic stealth.
>>321866154
>Fatal Shadows doesn't even make it on the list
That bad, huh?
>>321866154
Shouldnt Shadow of Mordor be on there somewhere?
>>321868930
no. shadow of mordor shouldn't be on any top list unless it's the list of top shittiest games.
>>321866154
Both Death to Spies games should be lower than all Hitman games, and Moment of Truth is worse than the first game.
>>321864210
>but as soon as you step on them you're fucking invisible
stop playing shit stealth games
>>321867393
But that's not true at all. Especially if you did this in Knife of Dunwall/Brigmore. I hardly killed anyone in Knife of Dunwall and got high chaos.
>>321866231
this
>>321866747
and this.
humans see much better than any stealth game simulates as far as i know
if any game replicated actual people guarding stuff i would probably eject the disk and snap it in half after trying to complete the tutorial
>>321869597
Bad opinion
>>321870069
Make cones of vision believable then, like you are invisible and the guards have goggles with very little peripheral vision, that they put on if they see your invisible sheen come within their vision. Make them scared, want to group up, panic and run if over stressed, move away from the "without a trace" style scoring so many stealth games force and become a silent butcher that spreads terror while completing your mission. Get too big for your britches, and you get your ass blown up or caught in a net by traps they start setting when the survivors share your patterns with the rest of their comrades
Do you ever kill in stealth games even if it's not mandatory?
>>321864210
>Explain stealth games to me
It's called being a good game.
A game with actual darkness wouldn't be good, because you need to see shit, otherwise people would just jack gamma up.
If guards actually had realistic behaviour, stealth games would be very frustrating and not fun.
How exactly do you want stealth games to play?
And then you say:
>The ONLY games where stealth didn't feel fucking retarded are Riddick games and Crysis.
Which makes me believe you don't even know what you want.
>>321870372
Yeah it is, I didn't notice Codename 47 was on there.
Blood Money > Silent Assassin > Contracts > Death to Spies > Moment of Truth > Codename 47
>>321870476
Depends on the game. In MGS I kill not a single person. in Dishonored, unless I'm going for the no kills run which I already have, I kill a person if he is in the area with another person, then choke out the other.
>>321864210
How come that this image features a movie as a stealth game? 6 hours of Snake rambling doesn't count.
>>321870662
hilarious and original
>>321870476
I go out of my way to kill every single person, I find it much more fun to try to kill everyone and be undetected and my trail of blood unnoticed
>>321870848
But it's true. The general consensus of 4 is that it finally broke the line between having a one-sided story:gameplay ratio.
>>321867374
My nigga. Blacklist is no Chaos Theory, but it's a solid 8/10
>>321870476
Only if I'm really stuck
>>321871028
It probably is more fun, but it's a shame nearly every stealth game out there now punishes you for killing people.
>>321871209
No one is forcing you to watch the cutscenes, they're skippable.
>>321871332
Found the bernie supporter
>>321871393
what
>>321871391
but then the game would be 5mins long
>>321871301
Blacklist is playable as a stealth game, but the fact that you can just run through a level mashing spacebar and clear levels undetected is kind of sickening to me.
>>321871479
The speedrun is 2 hours, go set a new record. It'll only take 5 minutes anyway.
>>321871672
kek, i was just about to post this argument. just looked up the fastest speedrun of mgs4 is about 1.5 hours, which is about the same as the other games.
>>321867374
>Styx is nowhere near a bunch of games below it
it's also better than games above it
>>321871343
Yes, that turns me off of a lot of the new stuff. Like mgsv had me going "nuclear" far before bombs were ever available to me, and no matter how many missions to destroy equipment I send my soldiers on, every soldier is in full body armor with helmets and shotguns, it's made every murder a ddog and cqc party
>>321871391
Yeah, that's a smart idea. And even then MGS 4 was almost all action soo what's the point?
>>321872413
nah, it has forced action parts, but so does splinter cell.
>>321872332
Yeah, it's both really interesting/cool and really fucking annoying how the enemies "adapt" to your playstyle. But it's fucking bullshit when the end result of all their adaptations just results in everyone being loaded up with battlesuits, forcing you to CQC everyone. Should've been more balanced than that,
>>321866154
Hitman 2 was shit
>>321870405
Have you played mgs3 or 4 on higher settings? The ai is surprisingly competent and it surprised me quite a bit
>tfw the stealth/strategy genre like commandos and desperados is dead
>>321873985
Fuck you
>>321870476
I usually try to avoid killing whenever possible, but resort to it occasionally either because I fucked up and have to unless I start savescumming, or because the enemies deserve it anyway.
I will never kill the guards if I can't come up with even the slightest justification for it. For example I would never kill the police officers in DE:HR because they obviously don't deserve it and it's not absolutely necessary. I would prefer to avoid even knocking them out as I don't want to disrupt their work.
A lot of stealth games kind of acknowledge and reward the player for pacifist behaviour, but honestly I wish more of them were more critical of that behaviour. In real life, being absolutely 100% pacifist could prevent you from being able to protect the people and things you care about.
It'd be nice if characters would commend you for being merciful initially but start to become critical and angry as they realise that your absolute adherence to non-violence is making you unable to do your job and fulfil your moral obligations.
