>instead of supers, Let's make Smash balls that randomly fly around the screen and give super attacks!
>Let's make it where they appear every two minutes unless you turn them off completely!
>Let's make it where half of the final smashes are worthless!
>Let's make some final smashes outright kill the user if it doesn't hit!
>Let's make some other bullshit items that fit no where inside of a competitive game, and would be considered unfair even in Mario Party!
>Like how about three pieces of a spaceship which one-hit-instant-kill someone when used?
>How about we make players randomly drop them even if they're just hit once by a jab!
>Or better yet, let's make it where someone can hold onto it forever, and getting all the pieces boils down to how fast your character is compared to someone else?
>I have other ideas too!
>Let's put a smoke bomb in the game which cuts the framerate in half when used!
>Let's also put assist trophies in as an item!
>We'll make over half of the trophies do literally nothing but significantly degrade the playing experience!
>Like how about this one where a puppy takes up 30% of the screen exactly where the players are fighting, which just makes them put down their controllers until it goes away?
>Random shit all over the screen is fun, right?
Is Sakurai mentally handicapped? These wouldn't be good ideas for ANY game, much less one which has any kind of competition involved.
Half of these would be rejected in Mario Party for being imbalanced.
I just want to play with some fucking items which are fun to use. I don't want to disable every fucking item because Sakurai thought items = must mean crazy bullshit all of the fucking time.
I like the majority of assist trophies, and would like nothing more than to be able to fight alongside Saki or Lyn. But holy fuck do I not want Resetti coming up and essentially causing the game to pause for five minutes until he fucks off.
Is this man clinically retarded?
I wouldn't call him retarded, he has a really fucked up view on what smash bros should be, rather than doing something more logical and compromising and understanding the idea that good players are allowed to be better than bad players.
He basically sees smash bros as a casual series and will fight you to the death if you think otherwise.
Smash isn't a fighting game, it's a party game. Tone down the autism, OP.
I like to think he put in Sm4sh's stage hazards, assist trophies, and items as a very deliberate ongoing policy of flipping the bird to Melee autists trying to make a "competitive game" out of his series about Mario bopping Pikachu in the face.
>>321843645
>>321843374
>>321843829
I agree, it's a party game. It's every bit of one, that's why I like playing with the items turned on.
Half of this shit doesn't belong in any 'game'. It doesn't belong in a medium where two players are in competition with each other. Mario party is less random than a single match of Brawl, and I will not take that back because it's the fucking truth.
At no point should it cross any sane person's mind that items whose sole purpose is to stop the game and watch the silly thing happen mid-game or that some characters super-ultimate-mega-attacks should be SO WORTHLESS that they can outright kill them while others get to throw instant-kill projectiles into the stage.
There is nothing 'fun' about that. I don't see how anyone can find that fun. I would love nothing more in Sm4sh than to be able to pick and choose to turn off the crap every stage and just have all the old-fashioned fun from SSB64 and Melee, but I don't get to do that.
And it hurts the game for me as a casual that just wants to watch DeDeDe get that Kirby.
>>321843107
You can avoid final smashes and dragoon by dodging.
Get good you fucking scrub.
>>321844209
I agree when you put it that way.
Doesn't change the fact that it's not meant to be played seriously.
>>321844851
>Final Smashes
>Dodging
Yeah just dodge that fucking tank, please. I'm sure that'll work out real nice for you.
>All those Smash Tour messages in loading screens
>For a mode that nobody ever plays
>>321843107
Think of it like this OP:
>MEGA FUCKING MAN IN SMASH BROS
>WITH THE GREATEST SUPER ATTACK OF ANY FIGHTING GAME EVER MADE
Sakurai is god, fuck your autistic bullshit
>Complaining about balance when playing in RNG mode
my head hurts, have fun anon
love, the tourneyfag and casual
>>321844209
>It doesn't belong in a medium where two players are in competition with each other.
Not that I, myself, disagree with you, but there's the disconnect right there. When Sakurai and Nintendo at large envision a typical Smash match, they don't envision "two players in competition with one another". They even four players (or on the Wii U version, as many as eight players) on deliberately uneven fields alternating between fighting each other hand-to-hand/sword-to-sword and pelting each other with all sorts of items.
They see the big tournaments, and while they understand on an intellectual level why balanced, competitive play would be appealing (hence the Tournament mode and For Glory), it's just that -- grasping the surface. That's why even if Sakurai disappeared from the face of the Earth without a trace, you'd still never see an officially sanctioned "balanced" tournament Smash.
It's the same thing with their Amiibos. Even as the Amiibos print money, Nintendo wonders why they're being sold as collector trinkets rather than their intended usage of interacting with the games. It's a company-wide desync between them and the new vidya landscape.
>>321844851
>dodging dragoon.
If someone dodges a dragoon you used, then you are legitimately bad at the game.
All you gotta do is bait that dodge son. Run the cursor near them, wait for dodge, punish his dodge.
>>321845116
>Sakurai is god, fuck your autistic bullshit
>>321845182
Only retards immediately dodge when the cursor is on them.
>>321844949
Landmaster is shit, just run away from it.
Seriously, get good and stop complaining about shit that isn't even broken. There's plenty of shit that actually is for you to complain about.
>>321845157
Here's the thing, in SSB64 and Melee, items weren't full-on RNG mode. That's because it was very rare to see items that could outright kill another character. They were just things that helped and assisted in playing, they were things that made the game fun.
When every other item that spawns is wankery, how is that fun for anyone?
Even people that play casual mode. How is that any fun?
>>321845176
>Not that I, myself, disagree with you, but there's the disconnect right there. When Sakurai and Nintendo at large envision a typical Smash match, they don't envision "two players in competition with one another". They even four players (or on the Wii U version, as many as eight players) on deliberately uneven fields alternating between fighting each other hand-to-hand/sword-to-sword and pelting each other with all sorts of items.
That's what it SHOULD be, too.
But what it actually boils down to is the fastest character sucking up all the items and kicking everyone's shit in. What if I don't want to play ZSS, or Diddy? Fuck me then, I should have picked the fast character.
I've quit playing 4-man matches because of this stupidity.
>>321845612
So you frame perfect dodge just as his cursor hovers over you at exactly the right time he presses the button? You do this every time?
Nigga, you lyin'.
>>321845613
>very rare to see items that could outright kill another character
>home run bat and bob-omb have been in the game since 64
You're fucking retarded, idiot.
>let's make the default setting the one nobody likes
Seriously, who the fuck enjoys timed mode?
Why is every single game type except For Glory 1v1 timed?
Why do I have to change the settings in every single smash game that isn't Project Autism every single time I load it up to get an actually fun game mode?
I've never met a single fucking person who actually likes timed over stocked. Why do they keep it this way
>>321845712
You don't have to be frame perfect or anywhere close to it. Spot dodge gives you a shitload of frames. Just dodge somewhere around the time you think he is going to use it.
Use your brain.
>>321845751
>>home run bat and bob-omb have been in the game since 64
>Home-run bat, an item that requires a HUGE charge-up to use.
>Bob-omb, an item that has an equal chance of killing the user as the target
How is it like being stupid? Does it feel a little tingly inside of your head being so dumb that you only have passing knowledge of the things you speak of?
Maybe you should fish your brain out of that toilet you flushed it down.
>>321845872
>You don't have to be frame perfect or anywhere close to it. Spot dodge gives you a shitload of frames. Just dodge somewhere around the time you think he is going to use it.
Thanks person who doesn't play for-fun. I'm glad you shared with me your psychic powers.
>>321845774
This is something that always confused me too
Seriously what the fuck sakurai?
>>321845897
>killing yourself with a bob-omb
holy shit, how bad do you have to be?
>home run bat
>huge charge time
It's faster than several characters fsmash in melee. It also does massive damage when thrown.
STOP MAKING FUN OF SAKURAI! HE KNOWS MORE THAN ANY OF YOU WHAT MAKES A GAME GOOD AND FUN
>>321845751
>home run bat and bob-omb have been in the game since 64
Those were actually really good and balanced items. They were more of what we needed in Brawl and beyond.
>>321846037
>killing yourself with a bob-omb
Dodge close to someone and shield. Pretty good tactic.
>>321846001
You're welcome. I hope one day you'll be able to figure out how to get good at a child's game.
Also, I playfor fun
>>321846156
>It's faster than several characters fsmash in melee. It also does massive damage when thrown.
Maybe charged fsmash, maybe. It only seemed worth it if you used it in conjunction with wavedashing.
Star rod is a better thrown weapon because it knock downward.
>>321846169
>You're welcome. I hope one day you'll be able to figure out how to get good at a child's game.
And maybe someday your dick will grow large enough where you don't have to lie about a child's game on an internet forum.
Let me know when you read someone's mind again.
>>321846336
Meant to quote >>321846037
So is there anyone here who actually played with all items on when they were a kid? At the very least my friends and I disabled transformation items.
>>321846575
In 64/melee I kept either all items or no items.
In brawl I turned off deku seeds.
>>321845872
>You don't have to be frame perfect or anywhere close to it. Spot dodge gives you a shitload of frames
Stopped reading there. Anyone that spot-dodges when Dragoon is trained on them is a fucking retard. They're just going to hit you when you're vulnerable again.
Aerial dodge is the best to avoid dragoon because he has to track you as you move. s-hop + aerial dodge is the go-to dodging strategy on a ton of shit.
>>321845751
You're an idiot. Homerun bat has a charge time and bob-omb doesn't kill unless you're at a high percentage anyway.
>>321846575
>So is there anyone here who actually played with all items on when they were a kid? At the very least my friends and I disabled transformation items.
All the time, they were actually fun back then.
No assist-trophies that popped up something in the foreground that I could not get rid of.
>>321845774
Why is that, anyway?
I've been trying to figure out why Sakurai makes it where the majority of people play in such a way that degrades the experience.
Is it because it's his favorite mode?
>there are people who actually DON'T believe that sakurai is a game design master
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zod_nDEoO6E
Watch this and learn a thing or two, fags
>>321843107
Reactions like this are the exact reason why these items were created.
You lose. Sakurai wins.
>>321843107
I read an article once about Sakurai and arcade fighting games and I think it might explain part of how his mindset regarding Smash came to be.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/22/painful-memories-of-fighting-games-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-71-sakurai-on-fighting-games-skill-gaps-and-more/
The short of it is that Sakurai used to enjoy play fighting games in arcades and was pretty good at it. One day, he noticed that person he was playing against suddenly started doing very poorly as he bodied them in the third round of KoF. He peek and discovered that his opponent had switched places with their girlfriend and Sakurai realized he had just wrecked someone who had little experience with video games. He felt super bad and thought she would probably never give fighting games a chance ever again.
>>321845774
I think it's the default setting because timed is the one they test all the game modes in.
If you look at the screenshots before release, all of it is in timed.
Ideally it should be timed stock.
>>321847251
To piss off the people who may actually want to play the game the way he intended for it to be played?
>>321847206
I'm not watching that shit. Give me the tl;dr.
>>321847312
How do you become a game designer and still believe that players who are bad should sometimes win anyway?
>>321844851
>You can avoid final smashes and dragoon by dodging.
Maybe if you're opponent is a fucking retard who can't play and is blind, sure.
>>321844851
>>321845612
>There are people SO BAD that they don't get guaranteed stocks with Dragoon or Final Smashes
ahahah, fuck
>>321847206
>video made before the game was released
>he made an hour long analysis on a game he hasn't played
whatever, dont care
>>321843107
Smash bros isn't about competition it's about fun. That's why they make fun of retards that play it competitively in the 3DS version by calling the competitive feature "For Glurrry"
>>321848483
How are any of the new items 'fun'?
Go on, we're listening.
>>321848483
you read nothing on the OP except for seeing sakurai's face and the insult at the end
>>321848483
it's not fun either
>>321847206
>Ganondorf
>Jiggs final smash
>Masterful game design.
>>321843107
I heavily agree with your opinion but I mean you realize theres item switches for all that shit right
>>321844209
>I would love nothing more in Sm4sh than to be able to pick and choose to turn off the crap every stage and just have all the old-fashioned fun from SSB64 and Melee, but I don't get to do that.
Unless you're talking about stage hazards... You can do all that. Just stick with the 20 or so non-shit stages
>>321849392
>>321848618
>>321849365
have you ever made a game?
Do you honestly think you know better than one of the world's most acclaimed game designers?
>>321849717
>Best defense for Sakurai's stupidity is "Have you ever made a game!!!???"
Sakurai saying it doesn't make it any less of a fallacy.
I'm not going to eat a pile of shit just because a famous cook made it.
>>321849717
Stop bumping your shitty thread OP
>>321849679
>>321849530
That's great in local multi. Try agreeing to those switches in online multiplayer.
>>321849717
I know when something is shit, and sm4sh has a ton of shit in it.
>>321844209
This x10000
As someone who plays fighting games, and can appiciate competitive games for what they are, but doesn't play smash competitively, Smash 4 is an utter bore of a game.
I can understand why people hate Brawl competitively, but as someone who doesn't, I'd rather play that than Smash 4.
In older games, most items didn't kill you instantly, so it was hype when someone got home run'd, bob-om'd, or shot by fully charged super scope.
Now? Half the items kill you instantly. It's not even shocker. Yawn, I got killed by that wind gun again. Crazy over the top stuff isn't as crazy and over the top when it happens all the fucking time.
Stages were fun, but you could easily control your character and pay attention to what's going on. Now most of the stages are out to kill you more than the players are. Shit's always moving and doing crap, it's like some of these stages were designed by someone with ADD. Brawl started it, but Smash 3DS is the worst this way. Wii U isn't much better. Who the fuck thought Pac-Land was a good map?
Sometimes less is more, and Sakurai has completely forgotten about this. You want a good party game that plays like smash? Digimon Rumble Arena 2. Easy to play, fun, not balanced for compeititve play, but not overwhelmed with stupid random crap at all times.
>>321848483
>Hurr Durr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wooGSr7k1-s
>>321849931
>butthurt that there's a smash thread talking about the items.
>21 unique posters
You can hide the thread, you know.
>>321849930
>Food analogy
>Feces analogy
Opinion discarded
>>321849717
>>321850117
I'm not going to jump off a bridge because I saw a famous skydiver do it.
Better?
>let's make a Challenge where you can't lose a single life against frame-perfect AI and a final boss with multiple forms
>oh, and losing results in a drop in difficulty and loss of some prizes
>>321843107
>>Let's make some other bullshit items that fit no where inside of a competitive game
Wow, it's almost like Smash isn't meant to be a competitive game or something.
>>321847618
When your company managers are breathing down your neck to get more people interested, and your fans are complaining that they're not able to play with their friends.
>>321850259
Some of the challenges are horseshit, it's bizarre.
>>321850017
If only there was a mode with no items and stage hazards specifically meant for competitive play or something...
>>321843107
>much less one which has any kind of competition involved
This is the problem that has plagued everything after Melee. Sakurai doesn't like competition of any sort, which means he is directing the wrong game. And they keep bringing back.
His idea is that everyone wins, much like an overly optimistic soccer mom. He doesn't like it when newbies get their shit kicked in even with items and all the other shit on, so his answer to this was to fuck up the physics intentionally so that everyone has shitty movement, creating a stupid equal ground.
He needs to fuck off. It's like hiring an RTS-game director to work on your brand new FPS game. It just doesn't add up. Sakurai needs to stick to his single-player games, where his precious casual audience is in no danger of losing to another person because they only lose to an AI, and they have the option to then lower the difficulty to always win.
>>321850383
Or fun, for that matter.
>>321850515
I don't want to play that mode where I jerk off with Diddy and Samus. I want to use the items I like.
I enjoy smash when it's about fast-paced action with a hint of randomness attached. It's hilariously fun when it's that way.
>>321846037
>It's faster than several characters fsmash in melee
Samus bat swing: 18 frames of startup
Samus fsmash: hits frames 10-13
Link / Mr. Game & Watch / Peach / Young Link bat swing - 23 Frames of startup
Link fsmash Hit 1: frames 15-18
G&W fsmash Hit: frames 13-33
Peach fsmash Hit: 15-18
Young Link fsmash hit 1: 15-17
Thats not even mentioning Bowsers horrendous 38 frames or Falcon and Sheik's second bat swing taking 40+ frames
>>321850824
Thank you, it's refreshing to see people who know what the hell they're talking about.
>>321850634
>I want to use the items I like.
But why would you expect that kind of mentality to work with online multiplayer? How would that even be implemented? Make a room with certain items allowed and wait for someone to join and agree?
It's kinda dumb to complain about something like that since no one could pull it off.
>>321850515
if only it had variety other than
>Can I go under this stage?
>Can I walljump off this stage to assist my recovery?
>>321850515
>playing on For Glory
>>321850017
Just have have everyone with their own item rules on? And then ask them to turn balls/trophies/whatever off if those bug you that much. The options are there, not Sakurai's fault your friends wont cooperate
>>321851014
How about not adding a bunch of the worthless fucking items to begin with?
Or better yet: How about implementing a proper online system where you CAN join and leave people's rooms, maybe even people's games. Maybe a system where you CAN vote on item switches and special settings, because that's what I've wanted in Smash since Brawl but we keep having the same hacked-together multiplayer system.
>>321851116
Yeah after playing on FG for a long time platforms were a nice breath of fresh air. I cant stand playing on there for more than a few matches at a time now, FD isnt actually that neutral and everyone lags
>>321843107
>playing a console for children
>complaining the games are designed for children
>>321843645
It's not a party game anon
It's a competitiveactiongame. He said so himself
>>321851338
>proper online system
>Nintendo
HAHAHAHAHA
They literally JUST figured out how to do online back in 2014, and you were expecting anything besides barebones shit? Try waiting until Smash 10. Although I'm pretty sure they still won't do what you suggested unless there was a huge demand for it, which there won't be.
Sm4sh is a messy and schizophrenic game.
Sakurai added more instakill items to appeal to casuals as well making many more stage hazards. However, no casual likes these things cause its jarring and very unfair, especially compared to older items and stages. Remember back when Brinstar was the most hated stage next to Pokefloats? Now people are nostalgic for them cause the Yellow Devil and Ridley are that fucking obnoxious. Not to mention that many single player modes that casuals and competitive players both liked, such as Adventure and SSE are gone with All Star, Classic, and Smash Tour very lacking at making up for it.
But at the same time, to appeal to his hated competitive scene, he made omega stages and for glory mode, which fall flat because the competitive scene was largely started over the large amount of movement options that 64/Melee had which had been taken out. Whether they were glitches or not doesn't matter, cause back then even casuals were using such methods and enjoying it, even if they couldn't accurately name the methods they were using, which is why casuals are confused and competitive players are annoyed.
Sm4sh has some great things though. the roster is good, or at the very least the best so far, it added new mechanics and characters, as much as stages get shit talked some are pretty great.
I personally like it, not as much as Melee but more than Brawl. I just wonder what could've been.
>>321850612
>His idea is that everyone wins
Sakurai wants to make a coop game.
>>321851402
it is also painful playing 2v2 for glory with the stages like that
>little macs whose only goal in the match is to run back and forth across the stage and interrupt what anyone is doing
>always someone trying to hide behind their partner doing whatever the fuck
>random footstools and counters when everyone is clustered. spread out more? it's a flat stage so that is happening 60% of the time
>>321843107
>much less one which has any kind of competition involved.
Well luckily for you Smash is a party game for children.
>>321851698
no, it is not competitive in any way, shape, or form.
smash is a party game. period.
>>321844209
>Mario party is less random than a single match of Brawl,
2-4 yeah.
>>321843107
>>Let's make it where
Learn to grammar.
>>321850612
No you fucking idiot, his idea is that no one feels bad losing.
>>321844209
Cry me a fucking river, OP.
>>321843107
Get some friends.
>>321853158
Yeah now instead of feeling bad at your own skill level, we can be mad at losing from bullshit AND your own skill level.
Has anyone in this thread actually MADE a game?Yeah, I didn't think so.Check mate.
>>321843107
Idk write him a letter on how you feel
>>321853681
I have. Sakurai taught me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAMaZQuQ7TQ
>>321850259
Oh fuck that shit, I went and watched a fucking youtubers do it instead just to see what happens after you beat it. And guess what? NOTHING! no secret character, boss, mode, costumes, not even a stage or theme! If you give me a hardass motherfucking boss, I better get *some* sort of shit for that
Dont forget
>Make original roster stale and boring and mostly shitty
>made his firstborn babies (Kirby and DDD) mediocre at best, gave his new lovechild (Dark Pit) a ridiculous sideB buffs and then proceeds to cuck both for FE characters
>Give every DLC character a unique mechanic and/or make them fun to use and mid-tier at worst (except Mewtwo, he's trash)
