Why is every fucking "Indie" game out there roguelike or based on these mechanics of randomly generated worlds and some sort of permadeath?
Because those are good mechanics for games that aren't made by 20+ people.
>>321770715
Maybe you should avoid turn-based and roguelikes, then.
And maybe it's because people are starved for roguelikes and CRPGs so the so most devoted of the starved become the chef, as it were.
there's a lot of roguelites around, but sadly very little true roguelikes
>mfw actually, honestly, unironically enjoying an indie, randomly generated, turn-based, grid-based, zombie apocalypse, "comfy" game with crafting and permadeath
Memes aren't always bad, I guess.
Procedural generation allows for replay value and mechanics based around individual " runs " instead of one long campaign, eases the burden of level design off of the probably small team, and helps make each person's experience a bit more unique because nobody else played this set of generated levels in this specific order probably.
Also, you better not be talking shit about DC:SS, because I will fight you in the street.
>>321770715
Why the fuck did you post a real roguelike released in 2006 as an example of that?
One which was actually the successor of another roguelike from 1997?
Roguelite/like thread?
I recently picked up Crypt of the Necrodancer, it's pretty good
Because creating custom content takes a long time and roguelike elements are fun and addicting.
>>321772590
Cataclysm?
>>321773045
Yes
>>321772957
creating a proper roguelike takes a lot of effort as well
heck Nethack has been in continuous development for 26 years now
>>321773045
>Cataclysm
Is that actually any good? I've noticed it in passing a few times, but never really looked into it. I'm sorta worn out on " post apocalypse survival thing" these days, unless it's something really good.
>>321770715
It's easier to design, it's relatively popular, and relatively easy to create compared to other genres.
>>321770715
pic unrelated?
>>321770715
>Why is every fucking "Indie" game out there roguelike or based on these mechanics of randomly generated worlds and some sort of permadeath?
Well, that is an objectively false statement if I've ever seen one.
The reason why this particular format is very popular among indie developer is that it has relatively very low formal demands yet offers generally high degree of replayability, plus there is a sizable audience for it largely untapped by big scale developers.
The amount of "fun for invested bucks" is relatively high. Permadeath adds urgency and replay value to even mechanically fairly simple games, the the same goes for the random generation, which saves you a lot of trouble of expensive and time-consuming hand-created setup.
>>321773310
Actually, Nethack got it's first update in 11 years just recently, it was basically at a dead standstill for a good long while. Dungeon Crawl is a better example of continual development, cause that team has been continually active for a long-ass time (I don't have an exact number for you right now, but it's 5-6 years at least by my count). Or there's Dwarf Fortress, which is arguable about whether it's really a roguelike, but Toady's been chipping away at that for over a decade now, and he plans to keep at it for at least another 20 years.
Level design and pacing is hard.
>>321773616
I know nethack got its first update in 11 years recently but even then it had been in continuous development from 1989 till 2004 which is still a long ass time
and my point still stands: proper roguelikes take fairly long and involved production times
I just tried out Dragon Fin Soup and almost necked myself out of disappointment
What a fucking travesty of a game.
>>321773909
I don't disagree regarding production time, I just listed some long-ass ones myself after all. I'm just saying that I don't think " literally nothing done for over a decade, with the silence finally broken by a minor system patch " counts as continuous development.
>>321773402
It is really good at start, even if a bit confusing.
Can get boring later, once you figure everything out, but it's worth getting into for those few great hours.
>>321773939
Yeah, it's a shame about that one, it really looked promising and the idea is solid, but the gameplay is fucking terrible.
>>321772638
>eases the burden of level design off of the probably small team
while this is true, creating and testing an algorithm for procedual generation doesn't neccessary take less work than designing levels.
Thats if you care for the experience being balanced at all times.
>>321770715
>posts the best "true" roguelike still in development
>game has an incredibly high skill ceiling and great replay value
>complains about developers trying to replicate it
Most of the arguments in this thread are that it has good replayability and gameplay.
I will also add that it's "probably" interesting to code as I didn't make one myself but can imagine enjoying doing it.
I do think however that it takes a lot of effort to make a roguelike - thinking wise. I don't really get why people think it's the easiest genre of game to make as an indie.
>>321774389
problem with developers trying to recreate the roguelike classics is that they think its easy while forgetting these games take years of maintenance and content expansion for them to actually become classics and then push out something that LOOKS like a roguelike but is mechanically and content wise incredibly shallow
which is damning given the roguelike genre is almost entirely about gameplay, its the only genre left where you can actually get away with paying zero attention to graphics as long as the underlying game is good enough
>>321774261
Sure, but procgen still means all the other things I said. It might take about as much time to make a good version of both, but depending on your end-goal you're going with the one that fits your vision, not the one that's faster.
>>321773753
>pacing
If there's any complaint to be had about roguelikes (especially longer ones like DCSS), it's this. Often it feels like the game is padded with unnecessarily boring content just to give the player more time to make a mistake and die, especially since you'll be at max levels and have your endgame equipment long before completing a 100% run
It's just the current indie "easy to make" game genre, just as 2D platformers were during the 00s cave story craze
>>321774662
Hm, very good points actually.to be honest, I haven't played much of the modern roguelike-likes at all (BoI, FTL, etc). I'm still too busy enjoying DCSS to bother with new shit
>>321774723
It can get pretty bad with some games, but I don't feel that DC:SS feels padded. Outside of the early game, you're always being challenged by progressively stronger opposition, and the length of a regular run feels just right, with the optional harder shit being made for the hardcore, who are there FOR the tons of shit.
>>321774961
FTL in itself is a bit of a strange case
its not a true roguelike at all, but its baseline game is solid, fun and well developed. Simply said the game is actually good.
However it did inspire a lot of other indie devs to make something similar, thinking it is easy because FTL's development time seems deceptively short given most folks don't remember the game had already been in development for quite a while before it came to kickstarter and at the same time its development continued for nearly a year after its release.
>>321774581
Easiest would likely be an rpg. Only problem with that is that everyone is obsessed with graphics nowadays. But mechanics wise an rpg is likely pretty simple, you only need somewhat entertaining writing.
Also platformers.
>>321775005
Maybe I'm just too hardcore, but at least when I play a MiFi of the Shining one, I can mop the floor with literally everything in hell and pan, making nearly half of the game's content more of a mild chore before the end rather than an additional challenge. Not much different for caster characters as long as you get a level 9 spell and lichform. Still haven't managed all runes as a stealth character, though...
>>321774696
Just wanted to point out that its not neccessary the "lazy" or "easy" way to go for developers, since many people seem to believe that
>>321773939
Holy shit, yes. I played that game and knew in 5 min it was shit. I look up the reviews and every single one was kissing its ass in high praise.
