dark souls 1
>the map is eclectic yet seems cohesive because of the lore
dark souls 2:
>the map and the lore are fucked
Discuss
I'll go as far as saying that ds2 was a bad game
>>321637335
What is there to discuss? seems pretty straight forward
I didn't mind the story/lore, but I'll agree that the map and level design was fucked up in a lot of places.
>>321637335
The lore of 2 is basically the same as 1; just saying that whichever ending you chose at the end of 1 did not matter because regardless, the events of 2 take place. It's a repeat, save that you become undying at the end unlike the destined hollow in the first game and can fully put an end to the age of darkness and rekindle the fire anew.
Oh look dark souls 2 shill train again.
Dark souls 2 fixed some issues from dark souls 1 and introduced new ones.
Hopefully das 3 fixes all.
>>321637335
Hmm because crystal cave and lost izalith made perfect sense
>>321637335
I love dark 1 but the last few areas are really an unfinished slog
at the very least, dark souls 2 is consistently mediocre as fuck.
Dark 1 burns brighter but Dark 2 burns longer
>>321637561
Yes because the text/dialogue explains exactly why lost izalith is lost and crystsl caves are made of crystal.
Dark souls 2 never tells you why you go up in a windmill and end up in a flying lava castle
>>321637670
Does it explain the invisible floors?
Playing the game > reading bullshit
>>321637335
The connected map was the best fucking part of Dark Souls 1 I don't get why they fucked it all up in Dark Souls 2 by making you have to warp everywhere to do anything in that game.
Dark Souls 2 did not fuck the lore up in any way shape, or form. Please explain your line of reasoning.
I don't give a shit about lore or interconnectivity, Dark Souls 2 sucked because the level/enemy design sucked
>>321637770
What does a puzzle have to do with how the level fits in the world? The OP is clearly discussing how while Dark Souls' levels were extremely varied, they managed to fit together seamlessly, while DaS2's areas often didn't make sense in terms of connection.
This was my main gripe with DS2.
>>321638142
Blame Bamco, DS2 was the most rushed of the series and they had to downgrade the shit out of it due to consoles.
DS1 has areas that don't make sense either, but it's better hidden. Ash Lake for example is right behind Lost Izalith, but you never notice it. DS2 it was too obvious due to shit like an elevator leading up into a volcano.
>>321637770
Well anon, all materals have a refractive index that is a description of what happens to light as it passes through the medium. The game is just taking a leap to say that a crystal exists where it is completely invisible in air to use it as an interesting game mechanic during a point where you have to enter a crystal cavern to progress the plot
As someone who was disappointed with DS2 and didn't care enough to buy the dlc, I'm really enjoying sotfs. Feels less bullshit than the original.
>>321638193
I'm not quite sure who deserves the most blame. From the interviews in the Design Works it's pretty obvious that the original director fucked up most things. They had to bring in Tanimura who thankfully salvaged the mess that was DS2 mid-development.
It's also because of those changes that the interconnectivity is fucked. You were supposed to use a hub like in DeS and travel through time, when they kicked the old director and brought Tanimura in they scrapped all that and decided to make it more like DS1, using the already existing levels and connecting them together.
DaS1 was very good
DaS2 was very bad
>>321637904
Lol
DaS2 isn't even canon anymore.
>dark souls 1
>stuck at the two dickhead archers shooting at me
this is stupid
>>321638392
>>321638570
Learn to parry. You will be spending a lot of time with knightboys when you are inside
>>321638734
they are just annoying to deal with when i'm standing on literally one inch of ledge
>>321638570
Don't stop. Run. Go to the right. Parry that guy. 2h riposte. Don't stop
Or shoot them with a bow if it's possible. If you can't do it the legit way then cheese
>>321637335
>the map is eclectic yet seems cohesive because of the lore
Explain further.
Or are we gonna pretend to agree with this even though we don't know what its actually is because it was in line with what we want to agree?
>>321637670
>Dark souls 2 never tells you why you go up in a windmill and end up in a flying lava castle
But developers did.
Fuckups happened because somewhat late during the development they had to switch leaders and remake / salvage shit because starting from scratch wasn't an option.
That's shit like windmill -> lava lake or small rubble heap forcing you to kill 4 lords happened.
>>321637335
No, actually, this has been discussed to death since DS2 came out. We get it
>>321638880
That doesn't explain shit.
Also, same shit can be said about DaS2 area
>No Man wharf is a port that one of its destination is to bring prisoner to last bastille
>lost bastille is prison island, and at its deepest area lies prisoner with the biggest sin
>The gutter is where everybody throw shit into it
>heide tower is where, well, the heide knignt and tis temple is
>huntsman copse is where the old gladiator arena is, hence why its the den of the assasin
>The queen that sat a top of the earthen peak feeds on the poison, hence she build a mill to draw the poison from the ground up to her chamber
etc etc etc.
>Dark souls 2 never tells you why you go up in a windmill and end up in a flying lava castle
Dark Souls never tell me why I would end up in Anor Londor when I went at the top of Sens Fortress.
hey guys what's up with the volcano above the windmill???????????
>>321639238
>Dark Souls never tell me why I would end up in Anor Londor when I went at the top of Sens Fortress.
yes...
yes it did
crestfallen warrior and Andre the blacksmith tells you that Sen's Fortress is an old proving grounds to allow people to go to Anor Londo.
I always wanted to make a souls-like game.
Would Namco/From sue me if I did?
>>321639425
Just make it broken shit like Lords of the Fallen and you're good.
>>321639409
But why do the demon carry you to the top?
Andre stated it as ' a route to anor londor or somethin' but there is no route.
Its is unlogical and thus IMMERSION BREAKING.
SHIT GAME 4/10 would not replay again.
>>321639651
>Andre stated it as ' a route to anor londor or somethin' but there is no route.
There is a gigantic broken/barricaded gate leading to Anor Londo guarded by Iron Golem.
>>321639243
But there is a volcano behind the Windmill...Seriously, why did they cut this? It would explain a lot of shit.
>>321639651
>But why do the demon carry you to the top?
because the door is fucked
>Andre stated it as ' a route to anor londor or somethin' but there is no route.
yeah, because the door is fucked
why are you so mad about videogames bro? I loved DaS2, but I can still admit that the world building is not nearly as good.
How the FUCK do I beat this piece of shit?
>>321639802
hit it until it dies
how can anyone have problems with seath?
>>321639802
Break his immortality crystal, then hit him until his HP reaches zero.
>>321639848
But his health keeps regenerating you fag
>lore
Jesus, I wonder when this meme will ever die.
>>321639894
talk to big hat logan, he'll tell you what to do
or get more than 2 brain cells
>>321639651
They'll carry you back down to sens if you ask them too. What nice guys. It's almost as if the ones who fight you are illusions created by gwyndolin....
>>321638570
LEARN TO RUN SCRUB LMAO
>>321639894
You gotta break the crystal thing at the back of the room first
>>321639774
>>321639710
I still don't understand why they have a demon fly through to the Anor Londor.
Why not let the chosen undead climb the cliff? Why would they choose to fucked up the door and use an unconventional method to transfer player to a different level?
Anything but having a pair of demon grab you effortlessly and flew you to anor londor?
Its IMMERSION breaking, especially when you fought this very helpful demon again later on.
>>321639894
Break his crystal faget
Get stronger
HIT HIM HARD
>>321638570
Here's what you do:
Run at the archer to the right and make him get his sword out. Once his sword is out immediately run towards the one on the left. The knight on the right will try to follow you and SHOULD walk right off the edge of the building. After he kills himself try and get around the knight on the left and just run back to the right because you don't need to kill the knight on the left.
>>321640042
Probably for the cool scene.
>>321640042
>I still don't understand why they have a demon fly through to the Anor Londor.
Because the door is fucked
There's only so many ways I can say that.
>Why not let the chosen undead climb the cliff?
Because the demons want you to reach Anor Londo, and you could fall and die.
>Why would they choose to fucked up the door and use an unconventional method to transfer player to a different level?
They didn't decide to fuck it up, it WAS fucked up. You could argue Gwyn did it to prevent people from reaching his "daughter", or maybe Iron Golem. The details are irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that the door is fucked.
Why are you so autistically saying it breaks immersion? The immersion from fighting giants and golems and gargoyles?
Take your meds bud, here's your last (You) from me
>>321640104
It was cooler when you walk down the steps.
At that point it truly sink to you an how large and grand it actually is.
>>321640220
>thinks video games are real life
>calls others autistic
>>321639238
Like a solid 50% of the areas in DaS2 have no reason to be connected like they are, if you don't see this you are a blind fanboy.
You know how in DaS you can see areas far away and they are almost completely accurately that distance away from where you are? DaS2 doesn't do that as much or as well, hence why the world doesnt make too much sense.
I'll admit the map in 2 does have problems with transitioning from area to area.
But explain how 2 "fucked lore"? i've been seeing people bitch about this a lot on /v/ lately but no one ever gives an example or says how. they just dodge it by saying it shit all over it.
>>321640220
So its okay for dark souls to make stupid shit like this, but if dark souls 2 is the one doing suddenly we have people screaming "muh B team".
Hypocrisy much?
>>321640316
Get a load at this shitty DaS2 fan trying to defend his objectively inferior game.
Hell, I bet you defend soul memory and NG+ only spells too don't you?
>>321640220
But it was immersion breaking!
Isn't immersion why DaS is superior than DaS2 when it comes to level?
Forget about quality, details and creativity like >>321640371 just stated.
ITS ALL ABOUT IMMERSION, the needs for it to make SENSE.
>>321640042
>I still don't understand why they have a demon fly through to the Anor Londor.
Because the game was rushed so they didn't have time to build another area leading up to Anor Londo. That's literally the only reason.
>>321638379
>didn't care enough for the DLC
than you missed out of the best areas of the entire game.
>>321640428
The stupid shit in DaS2 doesn't actually make sense though. Not a single person can explain why you go into a volcano straight from the windmill. Because it actually doesnt make sense in the realm of possibility.
>>321639802
break the crystal in the room and stay nice and close and hit him
>>321640503
DaS2 in its entirety is immersion breaking. From the bland humanoid designs of like a solid portion of the enemies, to locations that have no reason to be connected.
The only thing DaS2 has going for it is the PvP and the DLC, and the PvP is partly ruined by fucking shitty Soul Memory
>>321640417
Reading the dialogue and text (especially for just the base game) to glean the plot is fruitless. A lot of the text tries too hard to be mysterious and you end up with even more questions than you started. All you get is 'ahh this place is sooo mysterious, isnt that cool?' and it isnt cool, it's dumb. you end up inventing head cannon to fill in what the game doesn't tell you
>>321640812
That doesn't fuck the lore, though.
That doesn't ruin anything from DaS
>>321640583
This is something a lot of /v/ seems to forgot while praising the shit out of dark souls 1. its like 80% of a game bandaid strapped together. few people on /v/ remember what dark souls was like at lunch. it was just as broken of a game as those shitty webm videos with the broken hitboxes you post of 2. except with one you had ninja flipping havels invading you in the undead parish. Joining the Sunbros covanant was only for the most dedicated faith players, and lighting weapons were pretty much instant killers.
>>321637335
>"Dark Souls 1 has a cohesive map."
>Just a bunch of fantasy standards thrown together haphazardly like a retard slamming a jigsaw puzzles pieces together improperl, as filters, flora, etc completely transform after crossing some invisible threshold being jarring to even anyone with even modest observation skills.
No, they're both shit at that. Dark Souls 2 might have been worse then Dark Souls 1, but you're comparing turds.
>>321640616
>into a volcano straight from the windmill
After the Mytha chamber you went through a tunnel and use a lift.
The game originally have a mountain behind it but were scrapped for a reason that is not known.
The dev admit that they didn't do a good job with the transition.
>Because it actually doesnt make sense in the realm of possibility.
Same shit can be said about Sens fortress > Anor londor.
There's orignally gonna be a level after that, but they have to settle with this half assed transaction that were defended by a fan as >muh lore.
>>321640776
>SM mattering unless you spend hundreds of hours with a character
>what is Agape Ring
>>321637335
>one is a more or less finished game with only certain parts being rushed
>the other was completely redone midway development using already created assets to re-assemble the game into something more soulslike-y because the previous director fucked up and made a different game
Hmmmmmmmmm, I wonder what may be the problem here.All the series are mediocre as fuck, but that should not stop you from liking mediocre things.
God I can't wait for DaS3 to come out, maybe then we will stop having this stupid threads over and over again like a stupid analogy to the lore in these games.
>>321639931
yet another "explanation" the fans have to cobble together because like 90% of the other shit you guys make up its not actually in the game.
>b-but muh item descriptions.
They mean shit and are only tangentially connected at best. Now let the "lore/what if" threads die and just enjoy the games.
How are the DLCs? I stopped playing DaS2 before those came out and never looked back. The fact that they want you to pay for the game again to get the original pre-release graphics is also bullshit.
It's really a shame. I went through DaS2 twice (first time and on NG+) and I got my worth out of it in that regard, but I've put absolutely nowhere near as much time into DaS2 as I have in DaS1 and DeS
>Valley of Drakes crevasse drains into Blighttown.
>No change in water level when New Londo is drained into the crevasse.
>Firelink Shrine is on top of a mountain.
>New Londo just below it.
>Giant source of water came out of bumfuck nowhere to flood the place.
>Depths is full of water that is constantly draining into Blighttown.
>Blighttown has no drainage whatsoever yet doesn't fill.
>All of the drainage pipes in Blighttown are dry and no water is seem draining from above.
>>321641181
Some people will tell you they are better and others will say they are more of the same. If you dont enjoy the base game, dont get the dlc imo. It will not magically enhance your experience
>>321637335
the lore isn't that fucked. It's spread more thin, isn't presented very well and most of the new additions aren't great but it's still essentially das1 with more focus on cycles rather than decay and entropy when das 1 was concerned more with the latter.
The map was all kinds of fucked, though, yeah. And there was a shitton wrong with it gameplay-wise. The map was so splintered and disconnected with so few shortcuts and there wasn't the feeling of being able to go to some place in the skybox. I remember thinking that there was no way the tower heide was where the tower of heide was when seen from medula
>>321638046
That fucking move. Horrible, horrible boss to fight unless you cheese him. All but like one of his attacks have stupid big hitboxes that can't be blocked
>>321641181
>The fact that they want you to pay for the game again to get the original pre-release graphics is also bullshit.
You won't get the pre-release graphic as does graphic does not exist anymore.
The game were scrapped entirely mid-way and what we got is essentially a game that were build using the scrapped asset.
You can get SotfS cheaper than the trilogy price, so better buy that than buying a the DLCs separataly.
The DLC is god tier when it comes to level design, enemies and equipment.
Its the only area where the so called B-Team managed to make from scratch.
>>321638570
This took me like two tries max, but I was parrying as soon as I could. My general experience was souls games is that I get fucked hard at the start, but as soon as I git gud I git gud hard and normally fly to the end of the game with relative ease. Rat Sif being the fucking exception. Fuck that boss and also fuck that game
>>321641181
I'd personally say that combined they have overall more quality and quantity compared to Artorias of the Abyss. Like, AotA had fine bosses, but the areas and PvE itself was sorta lacking. The muhlore of DLCs is okay, even if it's just stories of 3 different kingdoms and how they have fallen.
That said, FROM did their best to insert as much "just fuck you, that's why" shit as possible, especially when it comes to optional challenge areas.
>>321640886
Not the overarching story of the whole series. Just dark souls 2 lore
>>321641730
It still doesn't "fuck up" the lore.
Being obscure isn't the same as being contradictory.
>DaSfag
>calling anything's lore contrived
>>321641445
my mindset during that boss was "if he can cheese me,might as well cheese him by making him fall off the map and die"
>>321637406
>bad
In comparison to Dark Souls.
I wish these games didn't have conventional levelling. It'd be cool to have one point per miniboss/boss kill, bonfire lit for the first time, etc. Overlevelling is one of the biggest problems in the souls series
>>321637523
>Dark Souls 2 shill train
>In a thread openly stating it was bad
Do you even try learning words before you go throwing them around like a retard?
>>321641809
It's ok. I think bloodborne has the same problem of trying too hard to be mysterious, atleast the base game. DeS and DaS are the only ones where i feel ok
>>321637335
am i dead?
>>321642068
then don't overlevel your self
>>321637335
Did they ever fix the horrible shitboxes in 2.
I could deal with pretty much everything but that.
>>321638217
The idea was that lordran was a "world tree" and everything took place on top of it except ash lake, which was at the base of the tree. I'd say it's fairly consistent, as far as magical fantasy lands go.
Yes, LI and AL are technically right next to each other, but the idea was that while LI is deep, AL is even deeper and below everything else. And the areas are several areas removed and you're probably not going to realize this part is not totally consistent unless you look at a 3D model of the entirety of lordran.
Much different than Drangleic, which had various areas connected without any scenery overlapping from one to the other.
>>321642154
No you can still get raped while rolling and kekshockwaves still get you
>>321642154
Yes it's called not being shit at the game and leveling up adaptability.
I swear, it's like people fatrolling in 1 all over again.
DS2 problem was the map felt like a mixture of DS1 and demons souls , it wanted to have different areas that werent cohesive yet wanted them to be connected like DS1 and suffered because of it . They couldnt have it both ways
>>321641686
>>321641479
So the level design of the DaS2 DLCs is good? That was one of my biggest gripes with the main game (well, one of many big gripes, don't get me started)
Might just pirate SotfS. Not sure I'll be using multiplayer anyway, since invading in DaS2 sucked anyway. Unless it's on sale right now on steam (haven't checked any of the christmas sales this year)
>>321641286
It's not as black and white as that. DaS2 was a good game on its own, and I did enjoy it, but it just doesn't have the same everlasting enjoying feeling that the other souls games have, in my opinion. A lot of that, for me, stems from the level design and the way they set up multiplayer. Oh, and the adaptability stat. Fucking bullshit; might as well be a playability stat.
IDK, I might give it a shot.
>>321637335
Bloodborne's interconnectivity is just crazy and the setting works better than medieval fantasy of the souls games. The majority of /v/ will only ever understand if the game comes to PC.
>>321642143
I don't, but the ability to cheapens the atmosphere
>>321642561
I don't know much about bloodborne (no PS4) and I've know what I've seen from screens, basically. Is it true that the game doesn't have much variety in terms of its design/aesthetic? Every level I've seen has the same "victorian london saturated in pale blue moonlight" look to it. Sure, there might be different areas, but they all seem to follow that same look. At least from what I've seen. Let me know if this is wrong and the game actually does have aesthetic designs that are more varied like in the souls games.
>>321642298
>i-frames conncected to a stat
>>321642821
>more build variety is bad!
At least midroll/fatroll builds are more viable now.
That said, low ADP builds are a thing as well, you just have to time your rolls better.
dark souls 1
>the map is a clusterfuck and the lore is nowhere
dark souls 2:
>the map has a purpose and the lore drives the player onward to new areas
Discuss
>>321642821
Yes and?
Nothing wrong with tying a game mechanic to a stat, it is an RPG after all.
Even in Dark/Demon Souls your dodge/rolling mechanic is stat dependent.
>>321642741
It's not really any different than most other RPGs where you can grind and grind if you want to try to brute force your way through something. And even then, it's still easy to die even if you're at a ridiculously high level because technique matters more than stats. And of course your equipment matters much MUCH more than your player stats anyway.
>>321642816
Just got the game, and while at first I did think this was the case, the areas get more varied later on.
>>321642957
>Dark Souls 1
>Map is a nonsensical clusterfuck.
>Story is a nonsensical clusterfuckunless you care to find it.
>Gameplay is good.
>Dark Souls 2
>Map is a nonsensical clusterfuck.
>Story is a nonsensical clusterfuckunless you cared to pay attention.
>Gameplay is good.
Really don't see how people can split the two.
>>321642951
>>321643017
I just think it's an odd design choice
I always thought of i-frames more of a glitch than a mechanic, if you know what I mean.
>>321637471
Mah nigga
>>321642951
adaptability is just plan shit though. You can say it leads to more variety, but it really just becomes a playability stat.
Like, imagine if the game had a set amount of input lag. Let's say starting at 50ms. And every point that you added to a your "playability" stat decreased the input lag by 1ms. That's how I see adaptability. They completely gimp the ability to play the game just to give you a stat that you can grind so that you can eventually get back to a playable state. It's just irritating
>>321637335
TEAM B
E
A
M
B
>>321637335
The map doesn't feel cohesive because of the lore, you dumb fuck.
It feels cohesive because of it's design and layout. Each level flows into the others organically, rather than how you jump from location to location like in DaS2
>>321643253
Same shit can be said for DaS.
You can choose to fat roll or force yourself to wear inferior armor/pump enough stat into Endurance so that the weight won't gimp you.
This shit also effect your stamina regen and poise.
You can choose to completely ignore ADP in DaS2 and finish the game just fine just like how you would ignore plenty of optional shit in DaS regarding the way you advance your game.
>>321643350
It felt like they just didn't give a shit. The areas hardly ever connected organically. And when there actually were parts of the game that actually showed you different areas viewed from other areas, it was obvious that it wasn't an internally consistent world. Like how you would start in majula, walk through a tunnel that was like 50 yards long, and come out the other end and look back and it looked like majula was a mile away. They didn't even attempt to make the game look like it actually connected at all. And of course there's the infamous "windmill elevator to iron keep"
>>321637905
lmao, the face of that guy
>>321643253
I'm fine with adp. I just dont like 360 noscope hammer turtles and other outrageous enemy tracking. It doesnt feel real at all when everything else about the combat does feel real
>>321637335
>the map and the lore are fucked
Nah. The lore is fine, the map is fine. It's just not quite as good as DS1. It's hell of a lot longer though.
>>321643017
>>321642951
Go fuck yourself.
>321643253
>but it really just becomes a playability stat.
Again, only if you don't time your rolls correctly. There are VERY few cases in the game that cannot be solved by this, and most of them are end-game shit or are tied to PvP.
Like, if you can't beat Last Giant or Pursuer with base ADP I don't even know whether that kind of person should be playing these games altogether. The only boss that I can imagine having struggles with with a low ADP build is Ruin Sentinels, and only because there are 3 of them. And even then they added that little ledge where you can fight them one by one, AND they added a free golden pine resin hidden on the level.
Yeah, ADP is different, but hating on it just because it's not like the other game is just plain wrong.
>>321643306
I seriously wonder what will you people will blame when DaS3 fucks up much the same way.
>Maldron the Assassin
... the fuck is this shit? I'm going to have to come back to this part.
>>321643550
But any character could choose to either fat, mid, or fastroll. It wasn't player stat tied, and that is significant. Imagine if DaS1 was set up such that you could only fat roll until you got to SL30 and couldn't fast roll until SL60. See what I mean?
The cool thing about souls games is that it was supposed to be if you're good, you can just not worry much about stats and the game plays the same regardless. And it stays internally consistent. Fast roll has X amount of i-frames, fat roll has Y amount of i-frames, etc. And you can actually SEE the difference between these roll animations. But with the inclusion of adaptability, they made it so you can have two players playing the same way and one will keep getting hit and the other will keep dodging even though they're doing the exact same thing and it LOOKS like they're doing the exact same thing because of adaptability.
It's a terrible design choice. I see what they were going for, but it just fell flat. It should never have been included
>>321643779
Don't you know? Miyazaki can do no wrong.
I just bought DaS2 yesterday after having beaten DaS1.
The game explains less than nothing. Health bar at half? lol wut just human effigy m8 despite nothing in its description telling me this. Wanna level up? needlessly travel to the main "hub", make sure you go through all this person's lines, then you can do that. Weapon degradation? kek.good luck with that broken dagger till you figure out how to level up after you find out how to restore your health, if you can bear with this shitty ass game for that long.
i'll only finish this game twice mark my words
Should I Buy This Game?
It looks so edgy, everytime i see a gameplay of it somebody is running around with a ugly oversized 1 handed weapon and clown costume or even naked wtf, does this game have no decent looking clothes or what
I never played a Souls game but it looks interesting and the type of game i could like
>>321643579
Earthen Peak into Iron Keep, and Majula into Heide's Tower of Flame are absolutely inexcusable.
Aldia's Keep into Dragon Aerie is worth an honourable mention as well for how retarded it is.
I've heard that in early development stages the world was a lot more cohesive, but somewhere along the way they had to scrap/restart the whole thing, which is why we ended up with what we got.
Obviously I can't confirm if that is true or not, but it's still interesting to think about nevertheless.
>>321642106
If anything, BB makes the most sense. The whole game stems from a disagreement between two scholars in how to exploit the powers of eldritch gods.
The characters motivations are actually quite clear, unlike Dark Souls where the plot is propelled forward by some weird cycle of decay/rebirth and the murky motivations of gods that are basically mute retards.
>>321643884
>Maldron the Assassin
>... the fuck is this shit?
The best character in the game, that's what.
>>321643589
Yeah, that 360 noscope bullshit was annoying too. One of the great things about the other souls games were that they were fair. If an enemy is winding up an attack in one direction, it's not going to magically spin around 180 degrees in a nanosecond because of the attacks magic tracking.
Of course, the fact that a lot of enemies did this shit just compounds the issue of adaptability, because it means you're more likely to have to dodge some bullshit tracking attack and end up getting caught because your i-frames stat isn't high enough
>>321643986
Play Demon's Souls/DaS1 first if possible.
>>321644170
you didn't answer my questions
>>321643986
Shove your finger up your ass then sniff it, that's the soul series in a nutshell. Don't give into the hype like a pleb
Where should i go after the iron keep/old king?
>>321643989
man its such a shame what happened to Das2. It was supposed to surpass the first one in every way
>tfw you will never play a finished souls game
Didnt DS2 have two directors with a change midway through development , that could explain why the game lacks focus , at least if something didnt make sense in the others you could say Miyazaki did it wrong
>>321644075
You don't tend to see AI programmed this competently and in my game he keeps doing this gay shit every time I get the upper hand and he runs away into a place I can't chase him into.
I've been playing DS2 for the first time so far
Why are all the bosses mostly so uninteresting?
The giant and the snake guy with two torsos were kind of creative but the rest that i've fought are just big humanoids with similar movesets and strategies to beat them. I just beat the ruin sentinels and the only reason that was even challenging at all is because they throw in 3 of them. They don't have interesting of creative movesets at all, they're actually very simple, they just decide to make it "hard" by adding 3 of them arbitrarily.
Does it get any better?
>>321643945
>Imagine if DaS1 was set up such that you could only fat roll until you got to SL30 and couldn't fast roll until SL60.
That's an improper way of comparing these two mechanics, since fat/mid/fastrolling affects the duration of your roll as well as the distance, when ADP only governs the amount od i-frames you have and, essentially, the precise time window during which you have to press the button. Just because it's more narrow at the start of the game than in DaS1 doesn't make it bad.
So what happened is
>the majority of people don't read what shit does, assuming it's hardly any different from the last game
>it actually is
>they mindlessly roll instead of waiting for the actual moment the have to roll
>WOW I WAS PRESSING THE BUTTON
>"DaS2 has horrible hitboxes"
>>321644225
My post implied that you should play it, but you should try to play the other games first.
>>321644395
you still didn't answer my questions
>>321644023
With DaS1 the motivations are very clear. The Age of Fire is going away. Gwyn sets himself on Fire because he doesn't want it to go away. That's pretty simple. He shepherds to humans because he's afraid of the Dark Lord. Same deal with the Witch, she destroyed herself trying to make another First Flame the original is going out.
2 is weird.
>>321643986
>It's good. It's also edgy but not in a bad way. Unless you're one of these people people who think anything that's not female rainbow ponies talking about friendship and happiness is "edgy". That just means you're gay is all.
What do you remember from DaS I?
What do you remember from DaS II?I pretty much remember everything from I, only the laughing jars and mist forest from III actually remember more from Demon Souls than Dark Souls II
>>321644280
>>321643989
I don't understand why DaS2 had it development issues. It seemed like From knew that they fucked up with how rushed DaS1 was and how the late game suffered because of it. We all thought they'd learned from their mistakes and that DaS2 would have the time and attention it needs
And then they go and make a sequel that's basically everything bad about the lord souls areas expanded into an entire game.
>>321639802
hug his right side
>>321642821
I think they even admitted to this being a retarded idea eventually.
Good to see it gone in 3.
>>321644280
Dark Souls 3 is supposed to be the last hurrah of the series, so hopefully they actually finish it this time.
>>321644361
Are you fighting him in the Iron King DLC? If so, get theHollow Skin
>>321644489
Play SotFS
>>321644392
You're still not getting what I'm trying to get at. That's my fault though; I don't think I can properly put into words and explain what I'm trying to say.
>>321637335
I'll post this completely objective rating of the souls genre in every souls thread I find.
>>321644496
>pic
ooohhhh so that explains the Lost Sinner from DS2.
>>321644386
They're the Capra Demon of DaS2. As in "just an end-game mob serving as an early-game boss".
Also all the best bossfights in the series are different kinds of humanoids with weapons.
>They don't have interesting of creative movesets at all, they're actually very simple
Well the beyblade and launch their shields captain america style, its enough for what is technically might be fought as the third boss in the game.
Wasn't Dark Souls 2 canceled at some point and scrapped, but then resurrected later, which is why we got what look like a massively downgraded version of the game?
>>321643945
>It wasn't player stat tied, and that is significant.
>Imagine if DaS1 was set up such that you could only fat roll until you got to SL30 and couldn't fast roll until SL60. See what I mean?
Rolling in DaS were tied to state; Equipment load.
This Equipment load were effected by your equipment and stat.
> But with the inclusion of adaptability, they made it so you can have two players playing the same way and one will keep getting hit and the other will keep dodging even though they're doing the exact same thing and it LOOKS like they're doing the exact same thing because of adaptability.
Same shit can be said about armor and shit.
Two players get hit by the same damage but the other one get less damage even though they are sporting the same equipment and LOOKS the same.
Thats the whole point of character build and growth in an RPG.
2 dude can look look the some but one of them is far more proficient in a stuff because they build their character that way.
Its a goddam fucking RPG game, not DMC.
So if I buy SotFS, do my saves transfer over or do I need to start a new game? Because I know the devs can't into directx and they had to make it a separate game instead of being able to update DaSII
>>321644690
interesting. i couldnt stand most of the "new" shit in scholar. i like the non scholar version though
>>321637335
>Decide to do a final playthrough of DS1 before DS3 hits
Hard to come back to but here are some things I have noticed since playing DS2 and BB.
You spend a fairly decent amount of time running all over the place rather than interacting with the world which is fantastic in your first playthrough cause it gives scale to the world and builds the setting, however on subsequent playthroughs it becomes arbitrary. The warp bonfires were a fine change going forward. BB does this the best though.
Combat is still fine, shields are still ridiculous. Endurance is beyond fucking OP and a ton of the weapons are made redundant by similar movesets.
Lore and so on is still strong, but lore is always one of those things where its great the first time around and then its just something you appreciate the 2nd or 3rd time around.
I'm surprised at how many invasions I get still. Even more surprising is how its all twinks invading with gear that is incredibly overpowered for the people they are invading. Glad to see fanmail is still a thing if you do manage to beat one with your +5 to their +15 cause they got cocky and went at you naked.
Final thought, thank christ they got rid of poise, that shit ruins these games.
Overall still a great game, but I can really see why they changed a lot of their design beyond it.
>>321644867
I HAVE NEVER BEATEN SHRINE OF AMANA PLS HELP
>>321644682
I understand that you don't like the fact that there is no visual corellation between the amount of i-frames you have during the rolls, but honestly that's such a small thing to fret over.
>>321644690
Change optional to "Sure" and we have a deal. If you are hungry for more exploration with souls style combat you will still get a kick out of the game.
Lore has always been over-rated. Its absolutely amazing on your first runthrough and then its a non-factor thereafter.
>>321644962
just run man. God speed
>>321639802
How can people like this even learn to use a keyboard to post here?
>>321644856
You could alter your equip load. Yeah, at lower levels you couldn't fast roll with anywhere near as much stuff equipped, but you could STILL fast roll if you wanted. DaS2 basically said "no, you're low level. You HAVE to have this gimped"
>Its a goddam fucking RPG game, not DMC.
Souls games have always tended more heavily on being skill based as opposed to just being about having higher stats. Having higher stats might result in you being able to wear better armor or dealing more damage, but it wouldn't fundamentally change the way you can play the game. That's why I compare adaptability to an input lag stat. You could just as easily say "well it's an RPG! You're SUPPOSED to be gimped and have massive input lag until you level that up!"
>>321645069
>run to the demon of song fog door
>get surprise buttsecks from all sides
>caring about story or logical placement of areas
Look, DaS2 is the more fun game. It has better combat, more class variety, bigger world, and way more weapons and armor. I don't care what any of you sheep parrot all the time, DaS2 is the better of the two games.
>>321645069
Did DS2 have a rusted iron ring equivalent , cant remember
>>321645061
>If you are hungry for more exploration with souls style combat you will still get a kick out of the game
Literally what optional means in that context.
If you played all the "play" games and still want more play the "optional" ones.
>>321644962
Use a bow and the geography, its not that bad brah.
Pre-patch it was hitler, now its just an annoyance.
>Those pre-nerf bolts that would home in with pinpoint accuracy while they literally machine-gun chain cast them at you from 30% further than they do now that did more damage
You don't know pain.
>>321645238
not that i know of
>>321645214
Autismo peer into my eyes. I will show you how to love again
I want a souls game that isn't as ridiculously oppressive in atmosphere. I want to see some god tier designs that are god tier not because they're monstrous or horrific
>>321644962
Buy a lot of arrows and take thoses witches down from affar.
>>321645052
It's not just that though. It's the fact that there's nothing you can do about it. It's not like DaS1 where I can fast roll even at low endurance if I go naked. It doesn't have the same risk-reward built in. And you're understating how important this is. In DaS1, I can pick up any person's character slot and play and I'll be able to play CONSISTENTLY because a fast roll is always a fast roll, a mid roll is always a mid roll, etc. I might do varying damage or take varying damage or something like that, but it fundamentally plays the same.
But in DaS2 I can pick up someone else's profile and suddenly I'm getting hit by every attack because, while nothing looks different, I still have different i-frames that you just have to eventually "get used to"
Overall, it adds absolutely nothing beneficial to the experience.
>>321644816
The game is massive. Especially now with SFS. I daresay it's longer than dark souls and demons souls combined. They may have had to cut some corners.
But the thing about the graphics is - they don't suck. The textures are fine and they're all even mapped properly... but for some fuckball reason, they didn't turn off the environment lighting, which is what makes the normal maps on the textures work properly. So the only way you can see what the game was supposed to look like is to go to an area that's pitch black wand walk around with a torch.
>>321645143
>Souls games have always tended more heavily on being skill based
>narrower roll windows are counter-skill based
eh?
>>321645238
Nope, but you got this.
>>321645446
>Nothing you can do about
You can fix it by leveling ADP
>But I dont' want to
Tough shit, they made the choice to change it cause Endurance was horrifically broken in DS1. This is even less of a non-factor by how many levels they throw at you in the game. I always bite the bullet and level adp first to get to the breakpoint and I never have to play through more than the first boss of the game if that.
I get what you are saying, and I agree its not great. But its not the end of the fucking world here. Every single one of their games has a huge glaring flaw in terms of mechanics, this is DS2's.
>>321645359
Go be gay somewhere else. Nintendo makes lots of games for you and your ilk.
>>321645301
>that part at the end with no cover, slow swamp water, two casters, some assholes hiding in the swamp, and a bunch of Melee guys who all aggro together if you get anywhere near the casters
I mean, I did it. Prepatch with no ranged attacks. But that shit was dumb.
>>321644962
I forgot about the shrine. What a bullshit level. The way the light shines off water as if it were saran wrap (thanks From for the botched lighting) makes it so you can't see SHIT underneath the water unless you tilt the camera so it's basically pointed at your feet and you can't see anything else.
Combine that with the sudden underwater ledges placed in the worst fucking locations, and you're suddenly walking right into endless pits even though you thought you were following the intended path just because you can't even see the drop because of the retarded lighting effect on the water.
And then of course you combine that with enemies that literally have perma detect on and will ALWAYS spam magic at you no matter how far away you are. I actually tested this. The only time they're not attacking you is if you're so far away that they literally don't render.
>>321645552
CUTE
>>321645505
lets not forget this wall texture
>>321645650
I did it as well. I was trapped with no internet for several months and ran through DaS2. That shit was an abstract hell.
>>321642816
It's pretty much all that. Forbidden woods is less so, I suppose, but it's pretty much all what you've described.
>>321645650
>Walk around the outside
Its that fucking easy brother. The middle is death.
>>321645631
You're intrinsically admitting I'm correct by saying that you have to shotgun ADP to get it into a playable state. How is this a good thing?
>>321645635
I liked the souls games, it's just getting old. Why are you so upset at someone on the internet wanting a chance in flavour? Sure, they can make eldritch abominations and things with lots of limbs. They can make emaciated naked people. They can EVEN make things made up of lots of said emaciated people stitched together. Aren't you getting bored? They can make tragic heroes and fallen knights without being so stupidly over the top.
>>321645538
A narrower roll that isn't indicated whatsoever by your character's animations.
>>321645772
Where did I say it was a good thing? I said it was shit, but its something you can take care of in the game. You make it seem like its something you have no control over. You do.
Put in 10 or so levels out of the 120 plus you get for the main game, problem fucking solved.
You are blowing it waaaaaaaay out of proportion honestly.
>>321642816
That's a problem with Bloodborne. I mean I love the game. I fucking love the game. But the world design has difficulty with world variety. Central Yharnam is a gothic city. Cathedral Ward is a similar gothic city. Old Yharnam is a gothic city that's on fire. Yahar'gul is a gothic city with aliens everywhere. Nightmare Frontier and Forbidden Woods are the only areas that stand out. Can't comment on the DLC since I only just started it.
>>321645631
>You can fix it by leveling ADP
Not him, but isn't that the whole problem with it in the first place? You can't change it simply by wearing different equipment, you're forced to start out with lower I-frames and grind your way up to something better.
>>321641181
All of the DLCs are much better than anything in the base game. Boss/level design in particular.
The one element I hope the most to see implemented in DS3 is the removal of bonfires in favor of unlockable shortcuts á la Demon's Souls.
What ruined half DS1 and whole DS2 whas the possibility to teleport between bonfires.
>>321645951
I loved Nightmare Frontier. You'll like the fishing hamlet. And even though the majority of the DLC is gothic the level design is really vertical for a while and it helps that bit stand out.
>>321638570
Fuck this part so much. Even when I had it down and learned to parry, he would sometimes keep shooting me endlessly with arrows even when I was in his face.
>>321645836
>Why don't they take everything that makes Souls games great and turn it into my little pony? That would make it better! Like put rainbows and beautiful, naked, young blond boys, and you run around tickling each other's assholes with flowers teehee!
Wow. Fuck off. I can't hate you more than I already do. You win.
Soon DaS3 will bring back the golden days of forest pvp pre dwgr patch
>>321646031
Do you motherfuckers have reading comprehension or not? I admit its a problem, but its really not that big of a deal. You pop a dozen levels into it(which you level like fucking mad in DS2) and its a fixed problem.
Its nowhere near as damning as everyone makes it seem. Its an annoyance that is bad design inheriently but its design you can actively do something about. If you couldn't fix it via ADP it would actually be a big deal and that game would be unplayable. But as it stands its a necessary evil. All the souls games have one.
>>321645840
It is indicated by the number in the stat menu of your character. There are even tooltips that say what each stat does. Learning the timings for rolls on a low ADP char will hardly take you more than 10 minutes.
Character animations are based on your encumbrance and govern nothing but your roll distance and how fast you roll.
Overall, it allows more build variety for tryhards while remaining a crutch for newer players. But overall it's not obligatory to level up. Which is not a bad thing. Having 32 ADP/105 AGI makes the game almost as easy as with DWGR.
Obligatory webm. Watch this before saying anything about DaS3 backstabs.
>>321645903
I mean no control over it given the current stats you have. For instance, if I'm SL1 and I midroll in my current armor, I can always still unequip all my stuff so that I fastroll. Saying "you can level up to counteract it" is completely missing the point in what I'm saying.
I'm not blowing it out of proportion. It's a terrible mechanic to include in this game, at the fundamental level. I'm not saying it's makes the game totally unplayable (obvious I've beaten it a few times over) but there is absolutely no excuse for its inclusion. Which brings me back to the "input lag stat" I mentioned as an analogy. Yeah, you could say you can circumvent the problem by leveling up your input lag stat, but that doesn't change the fact that it's inclusion would be ridiculous in the first place.
>>321646294
>b-beta
>>321642821
Really my only major complaint about DS2. There was nothing wrong with iframes and roll speed being tied to equip load.
>>321646294
>playing this game for PvP
fucking kill yourself you autistic cuck
Will something ever make you heart skip a beat as hard as this?
>>321646157
I'm not asking for sunshine and rainbows, fuckboy, and I don't know why you're assuming I am. Do you need video games to show everyone how tough and manly you are?
I'm asking for more Ornstein and Smoughs. That's a great boss. You get a flavour for the different characters and a sense of sadness without them leaking eyes and feet from every pore. Fromsoft can clearly paint a boss without resorting to overkill and blood raining from the sky. Dumbshit limb-happy enemy design isn't what makes the souls games great by any stretch of the imagination. Attention to detail, solid gameplay, world/level design and game mechanics that push the narrative's themes are what makes the souls games.
>>321639802
>kill crystal
>stand infront of him
>run when he starts charging his beam
>run past first tentacle
>dont lick it
>hit
>repeat
>>321646252
You don't think your dodge window is something that should be indicated by your roll animation?
>>321643986
I know what you mean. People are obsessed with using the "best" equipment available for their specific build. Which often, unfortunately, results in some ungodly attire composed of all kinds of stupid-looking gear.
You should pay more attention to the RP players who compose their equipment first, often to look as good as possible, and then forge a build out of that and through skill makes that build good and competitive.
>>321646449
If this was dark souls 2 he'd be dead
>>321646383
You can just admit you suck.
>>321646294
Looks fine to me.
>went for the backstab when host already healed and was finishing the drinking animation
>surprised he had a window for rolling
He should be grateful he got that attack at the end of the roll.
>>321646383
If you so viciously hate the PvP you should maybe look into other games, anon.
>>321646301
And i'd agree with you if there weren't two mechanics tied to rolling this time around. Distance and speed is governed by weight, and i-frames are governed by adp.
Its a new system that was meant to address how bullshit END was in DS1.
How many times do I have to say that you are correct that its ridiculous to include? HOWEVER once again. Its not that big of a fucking deal. If levels were hard to get, if you couldn't increase your frames through a stat, if they were tied to what equipment you were using(rings) then yes you would have a point. But because none of those things are true, you are frankly bitching.
ADP is an issue for maybe 5% of the game if you actively stamp it out when you can, thats nothing in the grand scheme of things.
>>321646383
Invasions in DaS1 were fucking god tier though. I loved thinking of inventive ways to fuck with players trying to make it through a level.
>>321646531
No he wouldn't, that was a good roll.
http://strawpoll.me/6312638/
>>321646608
>If you so viciously hate the PvP you should maybe look into other games, anon.
Lol nice meme, this game PvE clearly you autistic faggot, people like you want it to be muh PvP experience
>>321646471
Not really. As in, I don't care and I don't think it has any actual impact on how the game plays and feels aside from "it's nothing like DaS1".
It's okay to dislike DaS2 for not being like DaS1 though.
>>321646383
Are you bad at combat or bad at making builds or bad at min maxing? Or are you just a big whiny beta?
>>321646457
You're literally going into an established series of games whose lore and setting is also establish and, instead of just playing some different game, you want the specific series itself to change to suit the desires of an over sheltered fairy? You literally don't know a thing about the lore if you're saying stupid thing like this and I'd wager you've been consuming lethal amounts of disney movies if souls games, settings that borrow from plain old theology and mythology, is too much for your widdle soft feewings to bear.
>>321646616
And how many times do I have to explain that it IS a big fucking deal at a fundamental level. There is ABSOLUTELY NO VALID REASON FOR ITS INCLUSION
If the equipment you wore affected both rolling and timing and different timings resulted in different animations so that it didn't appear completely arbitrary just watching your character and so that there was some other way to change your i-frames other than JUST leveling adaptability, I'd agree that it "wouldn't be that big of a deal"
>>321646383
>red soapstone + SL matching + Password connection will let we have easily a 5vs red phantom fight club
>everyone almost naked, wielding claws, whips, broken shields and other shitty unupgraded weapons, fighting in dirty sand pit while the host drops prism stones and "Very Good" stones
>he doesn't want that
do you hate fun?
>>321646628
>Gimmicks became less of a thing the more time went on as more and more tryhards populated
I miss when the game was new and nobody knew anything about anything.
Theme and cosplay builds everywhere
a bunch of players trying to scrape by with whatever they liked using rather than what was the top build.
Forest pvp that wasn't people leveled to 1 mirrion prus
>You will never "Search to invade" for 2 hours straight to get an invasion as a cop in Anor londo where you slowly fight each other on the beams as he weakly flails at you with a halberd
>You will never get your first message asking "Why?
>You will never reply with "The guilty pay the price" again
It was the golden era
>>321646964
why are you such a cuck?
>>321646875
Except there is a fundamental reason for it, the I-frames you got for fast rolls for literally no investment were so fucking overpowered in the previous games that they tried to address it. Stop being so thick.
>>321647036
NIce projecting.
>>321640921
You can fucking see the walls of Anor Alonso, are you fucking retarded
>>321646964
>Host and 3 phantoms
>2 reds
What?
>>321647093
False dichotomy. Your argument is that this ADP shit was included because the old system was overpowered. There could have been numerous other methods to help balance it instead of just including a playability stat.
And if that is the fundamental purpose, it was poorly executed because, by your own admission, it's optimal to just shotgun ADP to the breakpoint right off the bat anyway
>>321646867
Why are you so autistic, buddy?
I'm literally asking for more of the same from one type of design already present in DaS. Why can't we have more sifs? Ornsteins? Gwyns? Things made interesting and sad and scary not because there's five million eyes on them? There's no restrictions on what they can do from a lore perspective because DaS, DeS and BB all have different lore. And even then, DaS had some designs like I'm talking about that fit with its lore. Don't you get bored of the same thing over and over? Plain onld theology and mythology allow for the designs I'm tlaking about. Tell me what's wrong with Sif. Do it.
>>321646916
Why would you label yourself "nu-male"?
It's not something you want to be. Why dont you just be a man and fight people with swords and magic?
Also anon, a cuckold is the husband/boyfriend of an adulterer. Keep memeing and one day you'll make it
>>321647243
Up to 6 players in the same world. That's DaS3 rules.
>>321647201
yeah because i'm the beta cuck posting PvP content webm of a PvE game on a korean transgender weebshit site
>>321647401
stay mad cuck
>>321637335
>i want rehashed Dark souls games!
>>321647314
There could have been, but that's what they went with and that's clearly what is in game. Complaining about it doesn't change anything.
Its really not that big of a deal, you yourself have admitted that you have beaten the game multiple times so if it was a big deal you wouldn't have. Quit bitching honestly.
The only part of the map that is fucked up is the Iron Keep.
>>321647417
Could we get 3 on 3? Or are reds going to be at a disadvantage again?
>>321647314
>They could have done this instead!
They didn't, stop complaining. Its a system that can be fixed in game.
>>321647564
Gladiator events and CE wizards were the only good things that ever came from DS2.
And even they were nowhere near as fun as knight events, airborne FC or piggu event.
Dark Souls 1
>is fun
Dark Souls 2
>is fun
im playing through DS2 for the first time in forever and had forgotten how crazy some of these links are in levels... I just take an elevator from a poisoned windmill-mine and suddenly im at a castle sinking in lava? and before the windmill I was just chillin in a spooky forest.. which I got to from a path right next to Heide and the massive expanses of water surrounding it. Shit dont make no sense
>>321646781
Unique multiplayer system is what made this games special in the first place, and removing any part of the Singleplayer + Co-op + PvP formula will result in a boring, mediocre as fuck game noone would stay playing for long, so no, you're wrong.
>>321647685
Requesting the picture of the giant glitch ladder with the post about Iron Keep. I need it.
>>321647681
Did you miss DaS2 knight events or something?
>>321647201
>Using R2
Do you even know how to PvP with fistweapons?
>>321647685
This is now a LOL thread
>>321647857
>autism the post by the nu-male cuck
