>Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
>tfw you cant become nihilus's apprentice
shit game tbqh
Kreia was right, the force plays everyone like a fool. Fuck the Sith and the Jedi.
>>321516603
and what would you learn from him? he's your exact opposite
Aside from TLSCRM ars the any other really good KOTOR 2 mods??
>been playing kotor 2
>realize how much more in depth the writing is and how much better it is compared to fucking mass effect and dragon age
Man the only thing bugging me is how long it takes to get a fucking lightsaber
>>321516947
Comon man it's fucking easy.
>>321517079
I know its easy but shit it takes forever
>>321516947
lightsaber are for faggots
go unarmed or dual pistols
>>321517171
intro + 1 planet + 10 minutes to go to 2 other locations without completing them
meh
>>321517234
>pistoljedi
>>321516947
Obsidian > Bioware, that's no rocket science
>>321517390
well Pillars of Eternity was objectively bad
>>321516562
>Edgemom
Seriously want to throw her out of an airlock
>>321516947
Examples of good writing in KOTOR2: Kreia and Atton
That's literally it. It's ridiculous that a 12h game gets so much praise for about 30 minutes of dialogue when the rest is mediocre as hell.
>>321517452
Ok it wasn't that great. Now imagine if it had been made by Bioware.
>>321517482
>not wanting an edgemomfu
Who was canonically stronger, the Exile or Revan?
Also why didn't the council mind wipe the exile like they did Revan?
>>321516656
i doubt kreia even knew what she was talking about.
she seemed senile judging from her dialogue.
maybe its just obsidian writting in attempts to sound deep and pretentious.
>>321517558
>12 hour game
>le anime girl face
what
>>321517619
Revan. Revan was literally god after all. Exile couldn't even hope to compare to godliness of Revan, he who controls both dark and light, the bane of True Sith, the Godvan.
>>321517619
Revan.
The shit he went through before and after his memory wipe proves that he's almost fucking impossible to kill.
>>321517759
>the godvan
Is this some TORtanic bullshit?
>>321517861
>Godvan
Google has no idea as well.
Reminder that Kreia is Handmaiden's mother.
>>321517992
it's godly that they left so much hints to resolve all sorts of unresolved ideas
>>321516656
Thats my only problem with both KOTORs is you cant play the middle ground at the end you are jedi or sith no matter how grey your bar is.
>>321517857
Prime, pre mindwipe Revan was pretty powerful, but he doesn't really do anything too spectacular in KOTOR. Malak was a pretty shitty Sith Lord afterall.
Exile on the other hand deafeated like 4 different Sith lords, 1 of which was a manifestation and trained a bunch of nobodies to become powerful Jedi and pretty much reboots the Jedi order
>>321518130
Not on 2. Whole point of 2 is to go grey.
>>321516603
What could you even learn from Nihilus? How to starve to death?
>>321518173
*manifestation of the darkside
>>321518194
there's no grey ending though
>>321517759
>Exile couldn't even hope to compare to godliness of Revan
The exile was overpowered as fuck and would have raped the shit out of Revan. He/She's literally a wound in the force, Revan just had a strong connection to it.
>>321518194
Lorewise yes, but in the end you still have to make a choice
>>321518194
Have you tried to play 2 grey? At the end you still have to choose Jedi or Sith and get a major boost in dark or light side points.
>>321518262
There's no light or dark ending either. The proper ending was cut from the final game.
>>321518194
No it isn't. Kreia brings up good points but she isn't meant to be right. She's the devil on your shoulder most the game. And I don't believe there is a gray ending.
>>321518325
Why are you posting screens of that garbage? Are you trying to piss me off, asshole?
>>321518354
>reestablish Malachor Academy and train new Sith
>go find Revan after redeeming Kreia
gee whiz
>>321518373
>Kreia brings up good points
name one without resorting to fedora alligment.
ill wait
>>321518354
Yes there is. You blow up the planet or start a sith academy on it.
>>321518354
There is both a light and dark ending, but the light is kind a weak cop-out. the Dark ending is decent.
>>321518417
Those choices you literally make at the very end of the game.
>>321516562
God, I hate meta dialogue in "serious" stories. Even if you could argue it's "realistic" because people sometimes talk about meta shit in real life, in a story there's no way it doesn't just look like the author suddenly started saying to the audience "This is the literary technique I am invoking now". It always sounds smug and unnatural, like the writer is HAS to let you know how proudly aware of tropes he is.
>>321518325
That's basically just stat crap.
>>321518528
Considering that was in preparation for the final showdown, you're completely wrong.
>>321518534
I was perfectly balanced and then play though every option and every option gave me enough light or dark side points to make me light or dark side. You cant end the game grey.
>>321517619
Revan has greater force powers but the Exile is a force-wound and could become just as unstoppable as Nihlus (who is utterly out of scale with the rest of Star Wars; he can delete planets freely and is immortal) if they turned to the dark side.
>>321518448
That both sides embrace and blindly follow the will of a being that we know so little about. That both sides are weakened by their strict adherence to tradition.
>>321518681
Nihilus is a gimmick character though, another product of Malachor shittery
if you left him confined for long enough he'd eat himself
>>321518734
Of course, you can't confine him. He'll eat you and your whole planet. And then go eat more planets.
He'll only collapse in on himself after there is literally nothing left to eat or he tries to eat from another force-wound.
>>321518681
>who is utterly out of scale with the rest of Star Wars; he can delete planets freely and is immortal)
Except he HAS to eat those planets or he dies of starvation, and he is very much mortal. The exile is nothing like him, he/she draws their connection to the force through other people, instead of just sucking it dry out of them.
Which is why nihilus got weakened when he tried to eat xim.
>>321518130
Yeah. If there'll ever be another Star Wars single player RPG, I'm hoping it will either bar you from being a Jedi altogether, or skip the nonsense and just make you a member of the order to begin with. But most of all, I want to RP as a bad ass bounty hunter.
>>321518916
It's clearly implied the exile could become just like him, if they wanted to live in such a disgusting existence.
>>321518589
How so? It's still a character saying aloud to another character "Were you expecting the big expected story element? Nope, I've subverted your literary expectations!" The actual words chosen and the voice acting aren't bad at all, but it's the spirit of the line that's poor writing. It says "I have to have the characters speak this convention I'm flipping aloud or else the audience won't get it!"
Basic writer's insecurity, we all fall for it, but I cringe whenever it doesn't get removed in the second draft.
>>321518981
>no sw bounty hunter game without big jedi plot
>>321519001
Have you actually played the game? You are going to find out why your mentor betrayed you and she says there is no hidden reason, there must always be a betrayer. It's more about her disgust with the archetypes she's failed to break her whole life, defined by the Force's machinations.
>>321516562
What was she anyway? A sith? She seemed like neither dark or light side was a good thing, and wanted balance of both.
>>321519205
Life is unfair.
>>321519001
>The actual words chosen and the voice acting aren't bad at all, but it's the spirit of the line that's poor writing.
Except you're not reading a book or watching a movie. Videogames are unique in that they're an interactive medium, so you have to keep the player involved with the story. A wink here and a nudge there are completely warranted, specially in an RPG where you have control of where the dialogue steers. Subtly breaking the 4th wall like that would be akin to an Austin Powers movie, but as a videogame it's effective and puts you in there.
>>321519205
Well, not really a bounty hunter game, but there was republic commando and there weren't jedi in that. There was also that Jango Fett game for the xbox, but I never played it.
>>321517673
I don't understand why everyone expects characters who are 100% righteous. She was conflicted after all the stuff she had been through. There are plenty of situations where you can call her out on it.
The same happened with the Bear&Bull guy. Everyone was ignoring the fact that he was a broken guy that went through serious shit.
>>321519345
Not really, she hated the control the forced exerted on her and all living beings, and wanted to kill it. She saw the exile as an opportunity to do so, since the exile was a wound in the force.
>>321517371
>have to spend half a dozen extra feats to make it work against enemies with lightsabers
No thank you. Atton and Mira can take the pistol jedi role as backup.
So /v/, what dev would you trust to create another good star wars RPG?
Personally I'd go with CDPR. You could pretty much reskin TW3 into a star wars game. What with all the twirly sword combat and magical powers. Geralt's pretty much a medieval fantasy variation of a Jedi anyway.
Plus their presentation and writing are top notch, so they'd be able to re create the feel of the SW setting. The only question is if they'd go the KOTOR I or II route with the plot.
>>321519205
Hating the game is a big meme, but SWTOR has a nice bounty hunter storyline without any jedi/sith destiny bullshit.
If you're looking for something like that you could try it with f2p.
>>321518130
>tfw you moderate swtor forums and read this sort of shit
>>321517619
Exile.
>Also why didn't the council mind wipe the exile like they did Revan?
Revan wasn't mind wiped because he fought in the war, but because he had access to a super weapon and they wanted him to retrace his steps to it.
>>321519657
yeah, a Star Wars game with swearing all the time and fucking once in a while
it's a space opera, a fucking innocent power fantasy
>>321519415
In your opinion. To me it's still just literary masturbation. The fact that in a video game you get to participate in the circle jerk as opposed to just viewing it doesn't change anything.
>>321519205
>tfw you will never save Sev
>tfw you will never have another Jedi Knight game
>tfw you will never have an Obsidian-storyline game
>>321519657
>So /v/, what dev would you trust to create another good star wars RPG?
Obsidian, fuck CDPR and fuck your shit. FROM would be interesting also.
>>321519857
>Obsidian
if Avellone is the lead writer, not a stretch goal
Balance Man can't write for shit, Fenstermaker isn't helping
>>321519749
there's only swearing in the witcher because it fits the setting, read the post again dumbass.
>>321516603
Nihilus is basically a failed version of the Exile in terms of being a void in the force. The only reason he's remotely strong is that he sucked up all kinds of force (in a manner markedly inferior to the Exile) and he has an insatiable appetite for more that he's a slave to.
Exile's better in every way, all of the strengthening with none of the stupidity.
>>321519750
>The fact that in a video game you get to participate in the circle jerk as opposed to just viewing it doesn't change anything.
It changes everything. In a movie or book you're merely a witness with no control of where the story is going. Subverting expectations is achieved through a simple dialogue line and it worked well in that context.
Not that I think videogames are a superior storytelling medium because they seriously aren't, but it's understandable that they have to use that sort of device to keep you interested.
>>321519415
what 4th wall breaking?
I don't remember any in KOTOR2.
The closest thing I can think of, is that part where it gives you an in-game reason for leveling up.
>>321517558
>mocks Kotor dialogue
>posts some shitty VN reaction wrote by a 12 year old
yea, right
>>321519347
I've always wondered how the far right droid, 4-LOM I think? Can be any good at bounty hunting. He's basically the same make as 3PO, and he's stiff as fuck.
>>321516603
>tfw you can't take Nihilus' place
>>321516562
>lol it was just Sith holocrons drove her insane! xD
Someone wake me up.
>>321519965
>balance man can't write for shit
Didn't Sawyer have alot of influence on F:NV? I know Avellone wrote Ulysses and alot of Lonesome Road, but I thought he had only minor influences on the quality of writing in that game?
>>321520142
why did HK-47 succeed at his job?
because he looks like a goddamn protocol droid until he doesn't
>>321519857
>from
I love souls but I can't see them making a good star wars game.
>>321520209
Wait what?
I played through it several times now with the restored content? I don't remember Kreia having anything to do with the Holocrons?
you mean atris?
>>321520086
You need to read the fucking conversations you jump into. I said subtle and Kreia is telling you, the player, that there's no ebig plot twist like in the first game, or in empire strikes back. There's no revelation of Kreia being your mother or the exhile being revan in disguise, or malak being a trans woman or anything silly like that. It's just a straightforward story and the deceit is mostly served with subtlety and through dialogue.
>>321517558
Atris
Go-To
Hanharr
Sion
The list goes on
>>321520320They retconned her for the TOR backstory
>>321520220
>because he looks like a protocol droid
But HK units are really bad at pretending to be protocol droids.
>>321517558
>12 hour game
HEY WAIT A SEC
>>321520390
NO
>>321519001
you are arguing about characters in a universe where the force and spaceflight exists. how have you convinced yourself there is a wrong way for a character to express themselves?
>>321520142
Well, he's probably more durable than C3PO and has better joints. I mean, you're comparing a combat droid to a protocol butler.
>>321520430
Also HK's have freedom of movement in their joints. Kind of important.
>>321520390
Screw tor
I mean everything is non-canon now but that was not even canon the moment it came out.
I loved the characters of Kotor II way more than the first game, but even with the mods it still felt unfinished. I liked Kotor better
>>321520351
I don't really remember that part.
There was something like "this about you and your journey" but it didn't really reference the first game.
Obsidian didn't even get to play the first game before making KOTOR2
>>321520430
your ordinary SW person doesn't appear to be a genius
>>321519347
4-LOM was obviously very calculating. I don't recall all the details, but basically he was a protocol droid that turned bounty hunter because he found keeping tabs on/helping/managing thousands of people in his previous job capacity boring and a programming flaw allowed him to disregard his purpose.
No idea how mobile he was, but I assume he was one hell of a planner.
>>321520220
HK Units vaguely resemble protocol droids, their internals would obviously be geared for assassination. 4-LOM ACTUALLY has protocol droid parts, which likely aren't to the same standard for being built for combat.
Also, the gag is that HK droids make terrible pretend protocol droids, the opening remark on their tone is often offensive and they very obviously withhold information from people.
>>321520223
Why not? It would be even more vague and moody than KotOR II.
>>321517558
>good writing
>literally
Opinion safely discarded.
>>321520560
>Obsidian didn't even get to play the first game before making KOTOR2
Oh but they absolutely did, and they thought it was amazing. They purposefully tried to make it as different as possible in consequence. I think there's a game informer article about the whole deal.
>>321520627
I guess from would make a good Prequel style star wars game where being a jedi just means you have a lot of combat abilities.
But to me jedis aren't just all about fighting.
I mean I would be curious about a dialogue system from fromsoft but I don't think that is what you meant when you were talking about a from style star wars game.
>>321520640
>you have to be a writer to judge writing
Please provide some real counter-points.
Your gun has the stopping power of a paddleball and there's no real way to keep distance between yourself and the enemy, so melee is a broken mess as always.
I seriously don't even know why guns exist at all in Star Wars.
>>321519345
there's an actual in game quote by her explaining that she's neither, something about how the sith shun her because she doesn't give in to the dark side and go crazy like them, and the jedi cast her out of the order because she wasn't gagging on the light sides feel good liberal attitude cock
she has no alignment, and is one of the reasons kotor 2 is the best star wars story ever written, it explores a side of the force nothing else in the IP ever had before or ever has since, it looks at the force from the viewpoint of an objective third party, and the story is about how the force is inherently evil no matter what "side" you use because it makes people weaker no matter how they come in contact with it, either through direct use or contact with a force user who affects their life with its use
I think all the people who shit on the writing just didn't like the game, I'll admit the game itself has issues, specifically the bugs and getting quests stuck in your log and being bugged and impossible to complete, dialog options bugging out and not appearing ever, etc.
the writing itself though is 10/10, hands down
>>321520817
>strawmaning
>>321519857
Raven Soft + Obsidian would be my dream team.
Good writing and C&C but also fun gameplay.
>>321520390
I haven't yet seen a single piece of evidence confirming this. It's probably just a falsehood cooked up to convince people to jump on the bioware hate bandwagon.
>>321520784
Well no, of course it'd be an action RPG and not turn based like KotOR, and the dialogue would probably be kept to a minimum. Just because it would be interesting to see what they'd come up with, it doesn't mean I think they'd be the best choice.
Eidos Montreal would be my pick, I guess.
>>321520937
>I haven't yet seen a single piece of evidence confirming this
TOR goes out of its way to make sure you're well aware KoTOR 2 never happened.
>>321520856
making a ranged character in these games only works if you back it up with the light side force stuns, it also helps to have melee characters and make them go fight first since aggro tables in this game are either non existent or just don't work to begin with
>>321520817
What's the point? You'd just avoid them like you did with the other anon.
I could never get into Kotor II. I was annoyed by the complete lack of subtlety of Chris Avellone pushing his Great Man Theory bullshit. It was like they took that one line of dialogue with Marcus about the Vault Dweller in Fallout 2 and made a whole game out of it.
>>321521259
you would have to get quite far into the game to be able to tell that.
If anything going from kotor 1 to kotor 2 is actually easier since a lot of the rpg elements are handled better.
Unless your first playthrough was preceded by a million threads and videos about kotor 2 you lying bastard.
>>321521259
Wow, that doesn't sound like KotOR II at all. It's like you're holding a grudge against the writer and didn't even bother playing it.
>>321520908
You are correct and I really like kotor 2 as well. However I can see the other side. Star Wars was never meant to be a deep (by moral standards). Jedis are good, Sith are evil. I am not saying you cant explore deeper but and in the end of the day, starwars will always be that corny space adventure. Its like applying morals to Zelda or Disney.
>>321521259
the exile honestly isn't even the main character of kotor2, it's Kreia
>>321521259
>Great Man Theory bullshit
That's like every single WRPG.
>>321521534
Why does every game have to follow the exact same formula?
I'd like to play a From-made Zelda game btw.
>>321521570
>it's Kreia
No.
>>321521259
But the Exile fails basically everyone's expectations.
>>321521534
you're right anon, and when I came to that realization myself a few months back I was finally at peace about how this new trilogy is brutally raping and murdering my childhood defining IP
it's time for me to just move on, star wars isn't for me anymore
>>321521570
No, she's the antagonist. The exile is the protagonist.
>>321521534
That is such a weird argument though.
the whole Star wars was never meant to be x
who is saying that? George Lucas? Or are you saying video games are not allowed to explore other shit.
There is a star wars for every age group. I saw oranges with fucking bb8 on them. Not special oranges. Just oranges.
There is a fucking dancing game where han solo dances to a star wars parody of modern song in the room where he got fucking carbonized.
And yet Kotor 2 is the one thing that is going to far with star wars.
>>321521661
yes
have you even played kotor2?
>>321521534
>starwars will always be that corny space adventure
At this point it serves as a setting, and other media have proven it can deliver well written stories, even if Disney says they don't count.
>>321521070
Accusations without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
>>321517673
Even Kreia concedes all of her monologueing could just be excuses. I bet someone tacked that on after proofreading the other guys work.
>>321517619
Revan. Kreia agrees don't bother her about it.
>>321518262
>there's no ending though
ftfy
>>321521839
Yes and you guys suck Kreia's dick way too much. Exile is clearly the main character as everything is about the consequences of their actions and what's to come in the future.
>>321521764
protagonist and main character are not the same thing
>>321521994
>protagonist and main character are not the same thing
They are though.
>>321521994
Yes, they're pretty much exactly the same thing.
>>321521534
You should re-watch luke in return of the jedi if you think star wars is all black and white.
>>321521672
She worked as far as Revan is concerned. The only thing that surprised him is that she lived through Malachor V even if it made her a potato for a while.
>>321522104
>>321522090
no, they're not
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=are+protagonist+and+main+character+the+same+thing
I'm not arguing any more with either of you until you educate yourselves a little on the subject
>>321522286
You need to stop doing this sort of thing for attention, it's embarrassing to watch.
>>321517619
Depends on your perspective.
Revan was fairly low level forcewise but he had insane charisma skills and also was a high ranked tactician.
>>321522461
right there in the definition you posted...
>one of the major characters
am I being trolled right now? you can't be that fucking stupid, can you? and I can tell you didn't even look at what I posted beyond seeing that I didn't agree with you
KOTOR1 should have been less black & white.
Both sides were complete dicks and Revan was strong enough to go his own way
>>321520390
>>321520142
Planning
Probably sat in the same spot with a sniper rifle till the target came along.
>>321518417
>reestablish Malachor Academy and train new Sith
what?
>redeeming Kreia
what? is there a way to beat her non-violently?
>>321522720
No anon, it doesn't work that way. You can't skip to the part that suits you while reading a definition.
>>321522831
>the city of bioware
>>321522930
the definition literally says "or"
what does the word or mean? was I lied to in school?
in all seriousness, you're trolling, there's no way you can be that fucking dumb and know how to post on 4chan, good show anon, you actually had me for a minute, 8/10
>>321523089
Cool ad-hominem, you're the idiot trying to deny the definition already posted. I'm not going to quote something that's right there for your perusal just to placate your rabid stupidity. Get a fucking grip.
>>321523232
you're persistent, I'll give you that, but you're now literally trying to tell me the word or doesn't mean what it means
it's gone too far though, anon, it's over, you got a rise, we had a chuckle, let's move on
>>321521994
>>321522286
>>321522720
>>321523089
Just had to comment how retarded this guy is. Literally the first three words of the definition "the leading character". While a story can have multiple protagonists, the context of -THE- protagonist does refer to the sole leading role/focus of the narrative. For Example: Bastilla is a protagonist, she's not THE protagonist.
>>321523551
and in the same definition there's the word "or" and another definition following that
also I'll refer you to what I linked here:
>>321522286
you're fucking dumb as shit, dude, I don't even know what to say beyond that, you're just fucking dumb
>>321523923
Yes, and that 'or' connects completely contrarian concepts, doesn't it? One is either the main character, or not. So if the protagonist = the lead character, how can it ALSO (or) mean multiple characters?
The answer is context. Something your shit-for-brains self is clearly incapable of understanding.
>>321517558
>Anime reaction image
>Shit opinion
The old 4chan double threat I see.
Nar Shaadar would not have been as bad as it became were it not for all the blacktracking you had to do constantly.
>>321524885
>The old 4chan double threat
>>321518448
Kreia was just a more aggressive version of Jolee's philosophy, which is that both extremes of light and dark are too rigid and unyielding to be useful or natural.
And they're right. Acolytes of the dark side all go fucking crazy and Light Side Jedi are blind and ineffectual.
It takes aspects of both to truly connect with the force; the stoic reflection of the light side serves no purpose without emotion to spur them to action, and the raw emotion of the dark side is just undirected rage without the calm observation of the light side.
>>321525284
She isn't though.
She wants to kill the force entirely
>>321525284
I for one prefer Mace Windus logic of "fuck that shit up".
>>321525416
It's both.
Kreia wants to destroy the force to give true freedom to the galaxy, but she also shuns adherence to only one side of the force and black-and-white morality in general. She's basically space Ayn Rand.
>>321525416
Because the force is stupid to rely upon because of its capricious nature.
Haven't played in like 5 years. Do I skip peragus with mod?
>>321520209
>be jedi
>disciples turn on me
>fuck jedi teachings they are clearly wrong
>become sith
>get fucked by disciples
>fuck sith they are also clearly wrong
>become neutral
>come across exile separated from the force
>wow this guy's thriving without the force, force is SHIT the force did 9/11 gas the force side wars now
>shrivelled hag boner
>time to show off how everyone can live without the force!
This was basically her deal.
>>321525539
Not really.
Kreia doesn't shun a "good" or "evil" character.
All she wants you to be is in control of your actions and think about them, instead of doing something simply out of some gospel.
Kreia would absolutely hate some gray jedi that just randomly jumps between light and dark.
>>321525649
What is everyone's problem with paragus?
I hate telos way more on replays.
I just want to RP a Mandalorian and not have to play TOR
>>321525761
Then her third set of disciples turn on her. Clearly this was all the force's doing Kreia.
>Obsidian started pre-production and pitched a KOTOR 3 that would have given a proper conclusion to Revan’s and the Exile’s stories, but they were immediately rejected so that Bioware could create TOR instead.
After all this time, I’m still angry about this.
>>321525887
Republic Commando.
Clone troopers are technically Mandalorian, aren't they?
>>321525895
It's weird that her sith title is The Betrayer when in fact she was the one betrayed on all sides. Revan, Malak, Sion, Nihilus and the motherfucking Force.
>>321525807
>grey jedi
>randomly jumps
nigger what
Not solving someone's problem for them isn't automatically evil or discompassionate.
Solving someone's problem isn't automatically good or kind.
This is all a major part of the game's themes.
>>321516746
Know one's self
Know one's enemy
>>321521994
You confuse protagonist and hero; antagonist and villain.
>>321526086
The point is that Kreia isn't about adhering to grayness. Being gray doesn't mean you don't adhere to some code and that you thoroughly think about your actions.
Gray stands for balance, not for being in control.
>>321525971
They are, but why would I want to be a Clone Trooper? They ain't even bounty hunters
>>321526368
you...what?
You can't "adhere" to grey
Grey is defined as not adhering to the light or the dark's philosophy
It's like saying "atheism" is a religion, it's a lack of one. Being "grey side" is a lack of allegiance to either philosophy, not bouncing between them.
Being grey DOES mean that you don't adhere to a strict code.
So I'm replaying the first game and I'm supposed to assemble my lightsaber and the camera positions itself behind the workbench, but nothing happens after that and the game locks.
>>321526451
Because squad-based missions are great.
>Take clear black and white morality setting
>Try to bend it to fit your edgy neutral shit
Nhilus and Sion would have made infinitely better villains that Kreia.
>>321526514
Fuck Clone Troopers, I want a Mandalorian qt with a wrist mounted rocket launcher, jetpack and dual blasters
>>321526491
>You can't "adhere" to grey
You can.
Gray Jedi are Jedis that only accept the Force as their authority, and not the Jedi order.
Kreia, on the other hand, hates the force and wants to escape its control.
>>321526772
>every mandalorian is bobba fett
That's just racist.
Thing is, there can be no such thing as 'grey jedi' and its a good thing both Lucas and Disney called that shit non canon. There aren't two sides to the force. There is the force, then there are the assholes who corrupted the force to make the dark side. Being 'neutral' means you only corrupt a little bit of the force so it's less "I'm neutral!" and more "I'm only SLIGHTLY evil!!"
>>321521534
The problem with the Force is that Lucas took Zen buddhism which doesn't have morality and added Christian morality to it.
>>321526623
>Take clear black and white morality setting
>Try to do something interesting with it
You're right, fuck those guys.
>>321526894
Come on, Boba wasn't a qt girl and he didn't use dual blasters.
>Jedi would let invaders kill them and fuck their waifus rather than fight back, but when someone disagrees with their code they fucking destroy the person
>Sith are massive edgelords
We really need a third alignment for KOTOR games.
>>321524940
Also the fights the RCM brings back to the game. It's almost intolerable having to fight with Atton+two losers through hordes of assassins, then after dealing with the jedi master, you get to fight a legion of assasins and it's a bunch of pretty tough fights one after another, and the AI is terrible when your companions often rush to their deaths when they manage to spot the next round of enemies.
Quite easily the worst planet in the history of Kotor games.
>>321527026
>Boba wasn't a qt girl
How would you know?
(ignoring the prequels and eu shit)
>>321526815
>Extended universe bullshit
That was only one definition of grey jedi, and again, those jedi didn't adhere to a philosophy, they denied the philosophies of others.
>>321527004
>It's not interesting unless I'm bending the lore to fit my ridiculous character
If you are incapable of doing something interesting with the established conventions of a setting- you're a shit writer.
>want to play kotor II
>remember the hideous graphics, quest lines and dialogue that end without resolution, the laughably bad combat, and the inability to model swap out kreai for pregnant naked futanari jill valentine
>>321527164
>those jedi didn't adhere to a philosophy
They did.
They believed the "force knows best"
>>321525813
It feels like a chore as it's simply a long-ass tutorial level. I don't really enjoy replaying Telos either as it also feels like a tutorial.
>>321527171
>bending the lore
KOTOR 2 doesn't contradict any established rules.
>>321527171
But the choice is either "Fuck yeah, I love the Jedi for exiling me, I wish they had beat me half to death and chopped my hands off too" and "Hurr durr kill everything all Jedi are evil"
ALRIGHT
So I've been playing Kotor 1 recently and I've been wondering. Can I just play the game without being a Jedi? Are there more powerful heavy blasters and such later on?
I just want to play as a snarky bounty hunter who just so happens to be attuned to the force.
Last time I ever played was on the Xbox Huge.
>>321527521
real men play themal detonators only mode
>>321527205
>>321527205
>model swap out kreai for pregnant naked futanari jill valentine
Granted, that would make things a bit different. I imagine you'd also want some kawaii japanese whore to re-voice her lines, right?
>>321527521
Ranged weapons are terribad in both games.
>>321527205
Combat in both Kotors is such a fucking chore. even if you go full unlimited powah sith lord.
Droids are even worse because they're immune to every other force power.
Would destroying the force entirely even be possible? The exile cutting themselves off from it is one thing, actually destroying it is another.
>>321527205
>model swap out kreai for pregnant naked futanari jill valentine
I might actually be nice to her if she looked like that. Normally I just treat her like dirt and have 0 influence with her.
>>321528116
Bounty Hunter girl in KOTOR 2 has godlike with dual blasters and Master Rapid Fire and her personal skill. But yeah, they are garbage 99% of the time outside that one instance.
>>321522105
Luke is light getting tempted by the dark. If getting tempted made you grey then all Jedi are grey.
>>321528190
I guess it depends on what the force actually is.
>>321520532
That is the worst argument you could have possibly made.
Might as well just have posted "I'm too stupid and/or apathetic to continue arguing."
Never played it but didnt TOR kinda do something like that? You can play a light sided sith warrior and be pretty nice or can be a total dick as a Jedi.
>>321528181
wat
Light Side is far more powerful than Dark Side, first of all. The buffs you get for using Force Valor and Force Speed can turn practically any build into a damage-shitting monster.
When you fight droids just spam destroy droid, it's neutral.
The KOTOR D20 system is one of the easiest to munchkin.
>>321529023
Light side sith was less a nice guy and more of "LISTEN RETARDS IF WE DONT STOP KILLING EACH OTHER THE REPUBLIC IS GOING TO WIN"
Dark Side Jedi was an ass though
>>321522813
You can always roleplay Revan as a chaotic good type. Don't be a complete rigid moralfag.
>>321529381
>>Kill Sith who was torturing kittens
>DARK SIDE POINTS GAINED
>>321529381
Chaotic good is always the most fun to roleplay.
With Lawful or Neutral you usually have to consider your current quest or the political landscape or further goals
With Chaotic good as soon as that guy you're trying to trade with reveals he's also a slaver you wordlessly chop him to pieces
>>321528190
If it's possible to create 'wounds in the force' then it's possible to kill it.
>>321529185
Who the HECK has the patience to spam buffs every time you're about to confront an enemy? Far better to spam lightning / kill for some quick deaths.
>>321529447
Dark Side isn't doing evil things it's doing passionate things.
Light Side vs Dark Side is less good vs evil and more stoicism vs unhinged passion
Striking down a Sith busy torturing kittens out of anger or vengeance is a Dark Side action.
>>321529529
Well I'm sure some antibiotics would take care of the midicloriants
>>321529570
It's the difference between pressing two buttons before combat or during combat.
Shit all you really have to do is refresh the buffs every few minutes.
So i just started playing this game. I am on the ship and im headed to Telos. I just read that the old lady is a villain
Da fuq?
>>321529791
>I just read that the old lady is a villain
Villain is debatable, keep playing.
>>321529791
Villain is the astromech droid.
>>321529958
She's literally the final boss. It's not debatable at all
>>321529185
Force speed is neutral and destroy droid is light.
>>321516656
Pretty much everything Kreia said was to manipulate you, to get you to go down a certain path.
She wants you to join neither side, because that would ruin her whole scheme.
Granted, the Sith and Jedia are wrong about a lot of things, but she only pointed them out to guide you where she wanted you to go.
>>321530043Does mean she's a villain. She's grey jedi. She isn't bad or good. She just has a goal.
>>321529791
Why are you spoiling yourself?
>Be vet from the Jedi Civil war
>Led entire armies
>Fought shoulder to shoulder with Reven
>Monstrously strong in the force
Yet some old cunt thinks I need an instructor like I'm her little padawan?
>Tell Kreia to fuck off I aint need no teacher
>FINE JUST LEAVE ME AT THE SHIP THEN
>She continues to spout off trying to teach me shit
Serious question, why cant I blow her out the airlock? Bitch is thirsty as hell
>>321529791
She is a mentor. She's been the mentor to key characters in the KOTOR series.
>>321530365
>Serious question, why cant I blow her out the airlock?
You would die, you've been force bonded to her.
>>321529493
exactly, it feels like Revan's canon alignment anyway, since stopping the madalorians was a pretty CG move. Hell you can even argue that him going full edge had good intentions initially.
Anyway the most fun is playing The Exile as someone who's torn between light and dark. Do good things, but don't be a doormat. Lie and brow beat your way too victory, but don't go full edgelord, kill civillians who don't deserve it.
Interpret Kreia's words literally until she fucks off and you have to figure out shit on your own.
>Playing KotOR 2
>Dual Mandalorian Heavy Blasters
>No Force powers
>Mandalorian Combat Suit
>Having real fun with the Dxun questline
>Can never be Mando
>>321530365
You've been indoctrinated by prequel-style Jedi, and she's trying to help you see their bullshit.
>>321530365
you've been cut off from the force. You're weak. Also Kreia knows the secrets of the universe man.
Plus she's OP as fuck in combat. Set her up as you designated buff machine and just let the UNLIMITED POWER flow through you.
>>321531160
She's an old edgy sith lord who thinks she's somehow less evil because she also kills Sith.
>>321530667
Wasn't Revan turned to the dark side by some Sith emperor?
He knew there was a sith empire outside of republic space, and that there was a huge threat. And when he went to face it, he became corrupted.
Although that might just be something The Old Republic did, and wasn't the intention with Kotor 2.
>>321531284
She was exiled from the sith and I don't see what's so edgy about her?
>>321531443
>FOOL DONT GIVE THAT HOMELESS MAN MONEY, NOW HE WILL SPEND THE REST OF HIS LIFE EXPECTING KINDNESS FROM STRANGES YOU HAVE CRIPPLED HIM
And thats glazing over the fact that she thinks anyone who uses dark force powers can be 'neutral'
>>321531570
doesn't the old man get mugged right after you give him money?
>>321531570
Anyone can use any force powers.
I had force lightning on my Jedi. It's just that, in the game mechanics at least, it's less effective and more costly than if I was dark side.
Also, the thing with that homeless man was that by giving him money, you made him a target. You saw in a cutscene how he was immediately killed for his money.
In other quests, she brings up very good points how you can't help everyone, and if you tried to, you'd end up stretching yourself too thin. And also the people you'd be helping wouldn't learn to solve their own problems.
However, pretty much everything she told you was also to manipulate you so she can later kill the force. So pretty much all of what she said might be complete bullshit.
>>321531996
>He thought Kreia was actually trying to kill the force
>>321531996
Negative, if you use dark force powers you are infact corrupting the light side to make it. You can't be a neutral force user. You either use the light side or corrupt it.
>>321531570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzLEBtObYxU
>And that is my lesson to you. Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clenched fist.
She was just telling you to think about the possible consequences of your actions, she doesn't scream at you and call you a fool.
>>321532138
I dont recall asking a failed sith lord to give me life lessons.
>Giving homless people money is bad
how is that not an edgy statement?
>>321532128
It's never been canonically stated "this is how the force works".
That's only one philosophy. There are quite a number of different philosophies of how the force works.
There are some that believe there is no dark side and light side, that they are merely constructs made by the Jedi and Sith to differentiate themselves. Or that what makes them dark and light is the will of the user, and not the force itself.
>>321532643
Negative sir, it is canon that there is force and then it gets corrupted and used to harm people. That cannot be disputed. What is philosophy is that the existing side of the force is 'light side' and what application of power is justified. But anyone who uses darkside powers is factually corrupting an existing source rather than just drawing from some pre-existing 'dark side'
>>321532305
That's not the lesson, idiot.
The point was that you acted without thinking of the consequences that can follow.
You just thought "I'll do a good thing, and everyone will be happy, the end".
Acts with good intentions can have bad outcomes.
>>321532810
Care to provide a source for that then?
>>321532305
She's not telling you it is always bad and you should never do it, she's saying it may cause more harm than good to just give random people money. If you don't help him she also asks you why you didn't, she's not trying to tell you what is objectively right and wrong, she's trying to get you to think before you act.
>>321532960
Starwars.
Hold on let me see if I can find a wiki page.
>>321531570
>give money
>man gets mugged
>refuse to give money
>man mugs someone else
The point of this part is to teach the player that all actions have consequences whether they are good or bad.
Gameplay wise, just ignore the man and you neither gain nor lose anything.
I had no idea you could turn party members to force users.
>>321533254
>miss out on gaining influence for kreia
top pleb
>>321533554
it's like a plot point and shit
>>321533608
>Wanting influence with edge lord, lore breaking characters
>>321533608
You always lose points on that part because you acted without thinking. Like I said, ignore the man to neither lose nor gain anything.
>>321533708
>lore breaking characters
What lore was broken?
>>321516562
Kotor 1 had better writing
