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Ma bro has diagnosed autism What games would be safe to gift
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Ma bro has diagnosed autism

What games would be safe to gift someone with autism?

Was thinking sonic racing and some music game like audio surf so he can watch pretty lights with his persona music.
>>
Undertale
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Undertale
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>>321308417
>pretty lights with his persona music
kek

but on a serious note - minecraft
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>>321308417
Kirby
He'll have fun and there's no associated autistic fandom
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>>321308417
get him Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, all the Sonic games are usually safe bets. Strider has a lot of cool bright lights and is a good game. Lovely Planet is nothing but bright colors and Japanese instrumental pop music.
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Autism's varied as fuck, OP. It ranges anywhere from vegetables to Einsteins. You're gonna have to be more specific than just "autism."
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>>321308880
yeah, like what are his tastes and what does he sperg out over? does he play violent games or is he the kind of kid that isn't allowed to have those?
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>>321308417
Give him Minecraft, autistic kids like paterns and such, no real learning curve and even somebody with the atention span of a LP watching cockatie on crack can play it.
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>>321308880
Most common is aspergers but you're right there's pretty big spectrum.
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>>321308417
FNAF.
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>>321308647
oh hes gone off that. he can only copy what he sees in LPs and gets mad if you leave him on it.

>>321308562
>>321308641
not bad but i dont think hed understand the feeling aspect
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>>321309446

source?
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>>321309558
Actually, it would be perfect to slowly introduce him to the feeling shit.

Im a aspergesr myself, functional kinda shit, but earlier years were somewhat embarrassing. Starting him up early could save him a lot of awkwardness and such.
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>>321309021
he wont play "realistic" things, mostly cartoon style stuff.

team fortress was good for awhile till he started demanding money for glowing hats and playing MLP karaoke servers late night. best avoid anything with gore and micro transactions
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>>321309446

That's kinda cute. It's a little gay but cute.
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>>321308417
Minecraft
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>>321310062
i dont like "realistic" stuff either, i think they're uninspiring and boring. but most of those are just military shooters and racing games with cars i could give a shit less about.

what kind of stuff does he even like? you can't just say "autism" like saying "he's retarded" or some shit. there are way too many degrees of autism.

>>321309740
>it would be perfect to slowly introduce him to the feeling shit

fuck that, how is him caring about nonexisting things going to help him in real life? it wont, he'll become attached to a fake being. next thing you know he'll draw furry porn and never want to socialize with anyone real because they're boring in comparison.
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>>321309558
If he can play and like persona of course he could play other "feeling" games
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>>321310494
Or, yknow, he would actually start knowing about all the feelings shit that comes naturally to nromal folks and can only be learned through either observation or a lot of avoidable awkwardness by autists.

Its a gamble, yes, but fucking hell, its a gamble worth taking, just router block tumblur in general and shit, and he should be fine.
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>>321310504
Lewd Tbh.
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>>321310494
he has a shrine to persona 4 and sonic but will sometimes play pokemon rom hacks

i could wait and get that pokemon tekken game. hed love that.
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Why does 4chan look down on autism so much? What about it deserves ridicule?

You wouldn't laugh at someone in a wheelchair.
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>>321310698
Just because he is playing it doesn't mean he understands it.
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>>321308417
Undertale
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>>321310062
How about smash bros?
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>>321311115
How is your first day here going?
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>>321310754
Nothing you said made actual sense. You can't fix someone with autism and teach them to give a fuck about people by making him connect with people WHO ARE NOT REAL. People with autism are already in their head, you'd just make him more disconnect.

I don't feel feelings for games, most of the time i skip cutscenes, pick the equipment with the best stats regardless how i look in it and roll my eyes everytime they try to establish love or friendship. I could give a fuck less about militrary shooters or fast cars people in the real world would kill over just to drive. I play games for escapism, not to be indulged with shit i could already do if i gave a fuck,

you want him to start caring and socializing? play D&D or a board game like that with other people, or even a card game series. Something that, you know, would actually help him become connected with real people with similar hobbies.

Despite what kids say today, video games are primarily a introverted and isolated thing and rarely forces people to engage in social activity besides the usual suspects. You want him to go OUT, not to further disconnect him from reality.
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>>321311042
that's sweet. you sound like a good brother.
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>>321310494
>how is him caring about nonexisting things going to help him in real life? it wont, he'll become attached to a fake being
You're right. Parents shouldn't let their children watch Sesame Street or Barney or anything like that.
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>>321311042
ive been a sonic fag since i was a child, I'm 30 years old now. I also have read the comics since I was a child as well. I collect just as much sonic stuff as i do anything else i enjoy, which decorates my place.

this sonic is for people with autism bullshit has got to stop.
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>>321311414
Did you just compare an educational show for babies to a teenager/adult with autism?

that's two totally different scenarios, thats like comparing an orange to the holocaust. What the hell is your damage? How did that remotely make sense to you?
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>>321311264

It was a trick to lure autists. You failed and now you caught autism.
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>>321308417
A bullet to the head. As an autist your brother cannot contribute in any way to society, or even be a NEET that is at least a bro. And judging by what you've said about the "MLP kareoke servers" he's already stuck onto an autistic fandom. No one wants another chris-chan.
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>>321311429
You sound like you have autism though.
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>>321311857

Humor me
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>>321311192
thats risky
he plays melee and if you ask him to play the new one he will lecture you for hours about how bad it is

>>321311429
defensive much? my bro has his own characters which are just existing ones with parts swapped around, thats the autism.
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>>321311559

Leave him be, that anon is probably autistic.
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>>321311920
>my bro has his own characters which are just existing ones with parts swapped around, thats the autism.

You do realize even successful accomplish directors, writers and even artist do that too right?
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>>321308417

Awesomenauts


Seriously
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>>321312168
How you figure? I have awesomenauts and i cant even bring myself to play it.
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>>321311140
That's why I just said like and not understand
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>>321308417
you are literally asking people who have the same disorder as him
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Final Fantasy 7
Persona 4
Fire Emblem Awakening
Smash
Ocarina of Time
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>>321312378
>persona 4

fuck persona and their highschool nonsense, why do you faggots keep recommending that shit?
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>>321312358

Nothing gets past you eagle eye
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>>321312478
Why do you think?
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>>321312358

Exactly. These slow rejects on /v/ would have experience with this kinda shit. Look, someone is already going full sperg >>321311429
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>>321312581
because they never played the regular series? If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be asking.
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>>321312478

OP said his bro is autistic. It seems rather fitting.
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>>321312610

That's sperging to you? You really shouldn't use phrases you don't know what they mean kiddo.
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>>321312665
Okay, let me rephrase that,
when you think of weeb shit like persona 4,
what do you think its target audience is,
Look at what the thread is called, then come back to me.
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>>321312756

I'm the person being called autistic for admitting I like Sonic and I can't even grasp why people like Persona either.
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>>321312832
How is the cliche' group of teenagers fighting monsters to save innocent people in their surrounding area from the forces of evil considered autism?

Not defending Persona, I'm the person you're speaking to but you're not making any sense. How is that autism to you?
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>>321312761

Please don't be so defensive. I have no idea what you people are capable of.
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>>321309289
Aspergers is like autism lite. You can be normal if you have aspergers, if you put enough effort, but usually if you have autism you'll always be at least somewhat weird.
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>>321308417
Don't give him vidya you maroon, give him a drawing kit and something else productive.

Loomis and Vilppu.
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>>321313075
Being successful if we're the superior kind of autism.

>>321313080
>You can cure autism if you try

That's not how that works.
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>>321313232
I didn't say autism you dumbass. I said you can HIDE aspergers.
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>>321313026

Pretty colors, simplistic anime battles, J-pop, "exotic" culture that is not theirs, and females with no personality as to not scare them away.
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>>321313232

>That's not how that works

I guess someone with experience would know.
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>>321313319

I'm going to give you a moment to realize how fucking stupid you just sounded, ready?

You good?

Okay then, you realize aspergers and autism IS THE SAME FUCKING THING?! Holy fuck, I know it's great to be out of a school for the holidays but that doesn't mean you have to turn off your brain. Aspergers was the lesser form of autism, it is still autism anon.
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>>321313319

Leave that anon be. He's clearly suffering for his mental retardation.
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>>321313487
You do realize you just named every single thing known to exist right?

>j-pop

what? what does that have to do with anything? liking foriegn music makes you autistic? What the hell are your credentials?

>>321313656
Better than being a dumbass like yourself, right?
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>>321313724
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>>321313928

It must be a hell in your head everyday to suffer such a disorder.
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>>321313724

Calm down, no need to have one of your fits.
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>>321314120
No, I take joy in knowing I'm better off with this disorder than being a typical dumbass who spews nonsense who pretends they're intelligent among other children.

Someone needs to keep you retards from bouncing your heads against each other with your meme spewing nonsense like a bunch of hipster faggots.
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>>321313026
its simplistic and colorful with repeating themes.

this is what many autists crave. simple repetition.
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>>321314227
It's hard to educate, it's even harder when the students are too stupid to even learn what they're preaching. What do you I do on a board filled with retards?
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>thread about OP's autistic brother
>attracts an actual autist

I knew it was gonna happen but not this fast.
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>>321314383
Anon, everything that people enjoy (music, clubs, geeky things like comics, cartoons, anime, and movies) follow that same exact thing....like video games. You don't see the contradiction here?
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>>321311748
I can't catch something I've always had, dummy
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>>321314610
>asks a question for an autist
>gets an autist
>gets confused by it

Holy fuck are you stupid.
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>>321314470

Maybe you should not go to some dumb anime website full of people who suffer the same retardation. It attracts normal people to mess with people like you.
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>>321315046
I'm on 4chan already anon.
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>>321311920
>he plays melee and if you ask him to play the new one he will lecture you for hours about how bad it is
>he plays melee
>you play sm4sh
Sounds like he has good taste. You sure you're not the one with autism?
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>>321314610
i was actually pretty hype for the tails/mech commander doom cross over comic game wad.

mind blowing.
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>>321314721

I'm not confused, more like amazed on how fast spergs are sperging out in this thread. It's almost too easy to mess with you people when you do a pretty good job of doing it to yourselves.
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>>321315219
It's only been me the entire time you fucking moron.

>"im le epic ruse man"

that just speaks volumes about your own sad life.
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>>321312610
That's not sperging, you sperg.
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To all the people in thread born with their disease, what's the average day to day life for you guys?
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Unreal tournament
https://youtu.be/q8SWMAQYQf0
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>>321315618
Being in your head alot
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>>321315353

At least I have the ability to stop leading a "sad" life.
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>>321313724
>aspergers and autism IS THE SAME FUCKING THING?!
No they're not.

You have autism,not aspergers.
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>>321315802
So you admit you have a sad life yet too stupid and lazy to make a difference? And this somehow makes you better?

You sure showed me.
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>>321315905
I'm sorry google confuses you, ask someone around you to explain how search engines work.
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>>321316009
Nice bait, but no.

I possibly have aspergers. I've been to psychotherapists and though that they were the same. The explained to me how aspergers and autism are different. Aspergers is on the autistic spectrum, but they aren't the same.

You are wrong, end off discussion.
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>>321316220
>thought*
>They*

My Keyboard is acting up, sorry.

The guy is still a dumbass though.
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>>321316220
Do you even know what the word spectrum means? You know, there's a site that can help you find out what words mean...
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>>321315907

>And this somehow makes you better?

I'm already better by not having your condition. Enjoy your life of being trapped inside your head. Maybe life might be better for you eventually.
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>>321316220
How are they different anyway? Technically-wise, I mean
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>>321316362
>Do you even know what the word spectrum means?
Yes. That's why I used it.
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>>321308562
>>321308641
NOT THIS AND NOT SONIC!

OP IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR BROTHER YOU WON'T ALLOW HIM NEAR THIS SHIT!
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>>321308417
What kind of autism? Low functioning, asperger,pddnos,.. Aslong as it's not low functioning it wouldn't really matter. Just buy him mario or something.
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>>321316374
What makes you think you don't have what I have? You can't self analyze yourself.

>Enjoy your life of being trapped inside your head.

Enjoy being stupid and lazy.

>>321316451
Yeah, but the thing is...you didn't use it right. You do realize that aspergers is scaled on varying levels of autism right? Like how obese people are scaled on a fat scale? or people with a learning disability are scaled? Everything is scaled.
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>>321316473
>Play only the things I like!

You sound so cool and original
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Can I say something guys? You're all autistict me. It's astonishing how you don't realise that. You're arguing against an autist in a thread asking autists what games to buy for autists. You guys couldn't possibly be more autistic.
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>>321316413
I don't remember the exact definition as this was when I was younger but as someone in this thread put it, aspergers is autism lite.

Social situations are a slight struggle, and you might seem eccentric to others. But unless they tell you have aspergers a lot of the time you probably wouldn't be able to tell.

Autism, iirc, is mood swings, being unable to express or understand emotions properly, and getting anxious is crowded or high intensity situations. For example, there's a special shopping mall Santa for autistic children that uses low lighting and a quiet atmosphere. I'm not a medically trained doctor or anything, but this is a breif summary of what I remember.

>>321316789
Yeah, nah. You're being semantic and overly defensive that people have told you how you are wrong. Aspergers is on the autistic spectrum, but unlike what you said they just aren't the same thing. I'm sorry, you're wrong, give up and stop being so desperate.
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>>321317373
True but the request was for games that wont trigger them, id assume every suggestion here is a trigger.
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Why do people correlate ASD with ASPD?
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>>321317373
/v/ uses the word like a slang, they don't know any better. They're just a bunch of ignorant children who are on holiday.
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>>321316889
Newfag
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>>321317502
>continues arguing with the person who is diagnosed, has admitted to being autistic and even is legally considered disabled because of it

Like, I know it's hard to admit you're wrong but dude...seriously, it's like what >>321317373
said, you're being fucking stupid
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>>321317643
No, I just don't parrot memes and like and dislike something because of bunch of children on anonymous websites tell me to like or dislike.
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>>321317761
>Continues to argue
No, I said I won the argument because you have 0% of being correct.

Medically, and linguistically, Asperger's and Autism are different things. That's all.
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>>321318023
>Doesn't know how to read
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>>321310494
Get him freedom planet its like sonic but overall better
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>>321318187
That's not an argument anon...

Clearly I can read, and clearly I have bested you.

Sorry for making you sperg.
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Where are the Rouge lewds? I came to this thread for one thing and one thing only: big fat bat tats.
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fuck you op
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>>321309659
commit suicide
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>>321312023
>>321311115
>>321311429
>>321311559
Autistic faggots detected
I want all the autist to leave /v/
Rrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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>>321318268
I actually don't care for Freedom Planet. When I say I like Sonic, I'm not just talking about the games, Sonic is a character to me like Batman is a character. Just like how there's things of Batman I don't like, there are things I don't like of Sonic.

When people say Sonic, of course they are usually referring to the games. But what a lot of people don't realize is that the fanbase within itself is split and divided, who argue frequently and internally among the very people who share the same love for the character.

Freedom Planet is just piggy backing Sonic after they couldn't make a Sonic fan game due to some legal thing on kickstarter. Other then that, it'd be a Sonic fan game.
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>>321318457

Go to some booru and fap, faggot
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>>321318618
3 of those 4 are me. And this thread was directed for people with autism, I know this maybe hard for you to grasp the idea of why someone with autism would reply to a thread directed to people with autism, but I hope one day someone can break it down for your retarded ass.
>>
ITT: Projecting
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>>321315150
Fuck off with this meelee us good meme it died out along time ago, get with the times oldseter
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>>321308417
Skylanders Superchargers.

looks autistic as shit. but I actually enjoyed that CommanderHolly let's play with Ross and Holly.
>>
OP, if you're still here get your brother something he likes, while lots of autists like Sonic and Minecraft, not every autist does. I'm autistic and I know 6 other autists and only 2 like minecraft and none like Sonic. While most of them are the same annoying little shits some are alright and have varied interests, there are certain things autists are more inclined towards but it really does depend on the person.
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>>321315905
Wew lad just how autsitc are you that you can't even recognize autism
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>>321317373
Truely we are the last of autists
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>>321311272
This is pretty spot on. Is your brother functional enough to socialize with people? You could try buying him board games. A good one I played a few days ago is one called Zombicide.
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>>321308417
Nippon Ichi games like Disgaea or Phantom Brave are like ambrosia for autism. You can lose yourself in those statistics for hours on end.

I'm autistic
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>>321319446
I'm autistic and I don't like those at all

This may shock you, but people who have disorders are not guaranteed to like the same things.
>>
Fucking hell.

Look, I was diagnosed with Asperger when I was a kid (It's like autism except you can actually function in social environments), so let me tell you the perfect game to gift someone with Asperger/Autism

Any game is fine as long as he likes it, there's no game specifically made with people in the autistic spectrum, the people saying Minecraft/Sonic/FNAF/Undertale/anythin is for autists are literally shitposting
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Where are the bat titties?
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>>321311272
Those games let him learn about people in a safe environment where there's no risk of rejection, and characters will be more open about themselves and their motivations in a way that real people wouldn't be directly. If you force him into social situations without the skills to deal with them, he'll get harshly rejected and emotionally traumatized, and he'll be put off from wanting to socialize for good.
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>>321318457
Thats a different subject and more specific to the sonic series, make a separate thread mate.
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>>321320105
he's already harshly rejected and emotionally traumatized, look how /v/ treats people with a disorder they don't even grasp.

Nothing is stopping from making your own adventures with him or vice versa.
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>>321320087
Came for this.

Dont stop.
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>>321309446
I remember when he actually made comics instead of this shit.

Actually, like ninety percent of the people there are actually talented but they'd rather spend it making porn.
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>>321320978
>Thinks there's more to life than porn

like what? friendship? relationships? Are you some sort of hippie?
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>>321308417
my little pony

it might help him learn how to make friends.
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>>321321084
as an autistic, I'm going to have to stop you there. There's no actual value of having friends, a cartoon for girls is not going to change his mind.

Friends to us is people that benefit us for certain things to our own advantage. We do not value friendship.
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>>321321346
>as an autistic
stopped reading there.
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>>321321084
Look what you did, now barneyfag's gonna come and make this thread even more autistic.
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>>321321346
isnt that sociopath? totally spies is pretty rad though for people with any disorder.
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>>321321438
>thread is about autism
>baffled when someone with it replies

You must lose your shit when a fish ends up at then end of your fishing line.
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>>321319121
>im shit at melee so it must be a meme
melee has better gameplay, pure and simple. Sm4sh is too heavy on the neutral game, and a lot of the gameplay choices in the game just straight-up make no sense, like the new ledge mechanics and the lack of momentum carried from a run into a jump. That's to say nothing of the lack of movement options (which renders projectile spam a viable option). Hell, even if you're playing the game at the most casual level, the items in Melee are more intuitive than a lot of Sm4sh's new crappy items

Sm4sh wins in terms of visuals and quantity, but quantity isn't everything. If they did a Project M style mod with Sm4sh, I guarantee people would stop taking Sm4sh seriously with a click of the fingers. It offers absolutely nothing positive in terms of gameplay mechanics.

Of course, the standard rebuttal to this would be "MUH PARTY GAME", since apparently being a party game gives it a free pass on having shitty mechanics. I dunno. I've stopped caring
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>>321321671
>autistic faggots choosing their own treatment
no thanks.
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>>321321638
no, i know between right and wrong. I also would feel bad if I killed someone just because I didnt like them. I also have no desire to kill animals without survival needs as I view hunting for the sake of trophy pointless.

I understand how it comes like a sociopath, it shares similarities but I dont manipulate people to get what i want. Sociopaths put on an act, people with autism can't put on an act because they lack social skills to even master it like a sociopath can.
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>>321321773
Where did I say anything about treatment? Does reading elude you?
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>>321322075
>make suggestion that MLP would be good at treating the autism condition of not being able to make friends
>autist argues you don't need friends, despite the fact that having social skills is very important in real life.
>autist then tries to direct his own treatment
no thanks.
>>
>>321322075
As someone who has a brother with autism and may be undiagnosed autistic himself (never been checked, if I am I'm high functioning but I'm not going to discard the possibility), buy him all four FNAF games. I've put 10+ hours into each, the challenge modes and night 7 challenges will keep him occupied for a long time, and the community draws the autistic crowd very well for some reason.
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>>321321714
thats something my bro would say and he would continue to press the point, getting worked into a frenzy unless you forcefully stop him.
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>>321322246
i never said social skills were not important, you're twisting my words. I also never said anything about treatment.

Go back to your girl cartoon you emotional faggot.
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>>321308417
This is perfect for him!
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>>321309659
Crisis Omega, furry artist, only draws for 4chan though, so good luck finding his stuff. Still draws like 20 pics of FNAF smut a day.
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>>321308417
Don't buy him sonic OP, never ever let him see anything sonic related.
If its too late, buy him a pencil and a few empty sketchbooks.
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>>321322489
>back pedalling this hard
what cartoons do you recommend my autistic friend?
>>
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What Sonic girl would you fuck?
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>>321322691
I don't recommend any cartoons because everyone has different tastes, also am not backpedaling anything. You should really learn what words mean before using them.
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>>321322698
All
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>>321322835
Which cartoons do you watch my autismal ally?
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>>321322360
i can vouch for this
go an autistic nephew who the loves the shit out of this
he makes a shitload of fanart and fanfics including furry porn and the ocasional gore shit
he has even gone as far as confeccioning a FNAF cosplay which he practically build out of scratch
the funny thing is, he hasn't even played the fucking game
hell, we don't even own a personal computer
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>>321311115
Projection.
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>>321322982

The only thing that's animated I watch is TMNT, I haven't really bothered with anything else lately. I mostly read manga and comics. I watch mostly super hero cartoons Batman, Spiderman, etc. I have watched a lot of anime when I was younger but I just prefer manga and only read a handful of titles that are still ongoing since i was a teen (One Piece, Dragon Ball Super) everything else is mostly directed for adults like Berserk, Shamo, Blame! that type of stuff.
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>>321322698

Sanics are not for fug
>>
undertale
thousands of autistic man children are enjoying this game
why would your brother be an exception?
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>>321323760
I'm autistic and I didn't like undertale at all, where is your logic now?
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>>321324089
>I am one autistic guy of hundreds of thousands of autistic people therefor you do not have a point
fucking autist
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>>321308417
>Ma bro has diagnosed autism
So he browses /a/ huh?
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>>321324268

>pulling a number out of no where makes it a valid point somehow

fucking retard
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>>321324514
http://www.autism-society.org/what-is/facts-and-statistics/
>3.5 million people in America alone have autism
fucking retard
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>>321308417
Factorio
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>>321324815
And what does that have to do with undertale fucking moron? I know you're trying to be edgy and saying people with autism like shit games you don't like, but you're not making any clear statements.
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>>321322372
then your brother is right. Again, are you sure /you're/ not the autistic one? Sm4sh, after all, is the game that gets all the 12 year olds,waifufag threads and autismo character additions like Cloud
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>>321325523
Literally edge the post
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>>321326008
nice rebuttal :^)
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>>321311559
People with developmental disorders and other mental disorders that aren't brought on by an injury mimic small children in the aspect that the disorder manifests in.

Schizophrenia? Imaginary Friends.

Autism? Egocentrism.

Borderline personality? Tantrum throwing.

The list goes on. Almost every developmental disorder manifests as not developing and childrens haven't developed yet.
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>>321326115
You do realize everything you just said isn't black and white right?

>Egocentrism only applies to autism

oh fuck right off, what the hell kind of bullshit are you spewing? Everyone thinks for themselves.
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>>321325032
theres a solid probability that most people who played and enjoyed undertale are part of the autistic population
that is why his brother would enjoy it
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>>321326461
The fuck kind of logic is that? With your logic, there's a probability you're autistic.
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>>321324997
hhhhngh
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>>321326587
no there isnt, because I didnt play and enjoy undertale
you have nothing to go off of to make that claim :^)
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>>321314326
ah.. so you are autistic after all!
lol why don't you go to reddit autist and discuss your diseased tastes there eh?
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>>321311042
>shrine to persona 4
>Game where an autistic guy with some fashion sense manages to brute force his way through social interactions and get any girl he wants and save the world all at once
Sounds about right.
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>>321327914
Why don't you make me?
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I've got autism myself. My personal favorite games in no particular order

REmake
SMTIII - Nocturne
Shadow of the Colossus
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Deus Ex
Dark Souls
RE4
Final Fantasy VIII
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>>321308417
Sonic and Pokemon are the best games you can give someone with Autism.
And teach him Yu-Gi-Oh too.
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>>321328929
I have it and I hate all three.
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Have him play Deeblo Two.

https://farmington.craigslist.org/cas/5368965123.html
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>>321311920
MY SIDES
Autism is the face of the Melee community.
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>>321329365
I dont know how to tell you this, but you were incorrectly diagnosed.
Congratulations, you dont have autism
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>>321326331
>Everybody's just like me.
Okay, autist.
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>>321330991
>no one thinks for themselves

how delusional are you?
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>>321308417
>What games would be safe to gift someone with autism?
Sudoku
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>>321328475
I'm surprised no one replied to this.
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>>321308417
a tablet with puzzles and dragons installed
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>all these people suggesting games for unachieving autists and not suggesting chemo
Dwarf Fortress, M&B:W
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