So for my free time I wanted to start playing some old school RPGs with tons of choices (KOTOR and Vampire: the Masquerade). I'm not going to go into a huge rant on why these games are overrated or the genre is bad (I'm having a lot of fun right now) but these games only remind me of the biggest problems with these games are the character creation steps.
Everyone keeps saying that "you can roleplay anything and do anything" on paper they're absolutely right. You get to modify your background, select your stats, put your skill points in whatever you want and the choices are wide and customization possibilities are endless. I pick what I want to pick and hit play.
Then we get to the problem with these titles.
Far too often in these games there are "must have" skills and abilities that a useless outside of a few isolated game incidents. Some skills are just superfulous as the benefits they yield are a non factor (ie an increase in money drops when money is already plentiful). It's like in Fallout 3 where "small guns" was a needed skill as even if you wanted to go with an energy weapon build you STILL needed some sort of small weapon proficiency as that was a majority of your drops. Meanwhile not having a lockpicking or hacking skill shut you out of a lot of content.
Either that or you find out that one of the play styles that is offered is either completely useless or not balanced for end game. Sure the games are designed so that any character can finish the title but to know that you threw away so many points in useless stats and abilities doesn't make for a fun afterthought.
Far too often these games have an ideal build,class,skill set and such things are unavoidable. While I don't mind there being a optimum build I do worry about gimping myself
>not just maxing out all the miscellaneous skills
You don't 'get' WRPGs.
>>321304048
Something being a must have is a mental decision you made, or you read on a guide for being the easiest way to beat something. The flaw is you, not the game. I also stopped reading when you said that. It is the same ignorant shit about WoW Talent trees back in the day. You 'have to have this specific build to raid' That was only true if you where attempting competitive progression, in which case you wanted the best ones to do the most damage. The flaw is the human, not the system.
Better that than "you can do anything!"
>>321304048
Only must have skills are charm ones so you can pass persuasion checks, otherwise the game is easy enough to not matter what skills you pick
>KotOR
>VtM
>Old School
Really?
>KOTOR and Vampire the Masquerade
There's your problem. Star Wars games are usually pretty bad, and then you need to add the fact that it's Bioware.
Vampire has always been a joke of a game. It was a buggy broken mess when it came out and it still is. It doesn't really do anything that well in terms of gameplay. The only big deal around it, was it was one of the first games to use the hl2 engine, so it has the same goofy Dreamworks facial animations.
>>321304048
isn't this one of the selling points of the genre?
how would you improve this system and still make the character feel personal?
if you're a min maxing faggot you can't roleplay
thats all there is to it
>>321304048
>old school
>KOTOR and Vampire: the Masquerade
>>321304387
How is that any different from what OP is talking about. Isn't the creation all about "You can do anything!"
>>321304380
this guy kinda gets it.
>>321304562
For most people yes. Those games are almost 15 years old.
>>321304048
Which D20 system did knights use? I think that superfluous stats are a symptom of D20 games in general.
>>321305157
>For most people yes. Those games are almost 15 years old.
11-12 years old.
>>321304048
OP, you're forgetting that in older Bioware games, you catered your party around your weaknesses to have strength as a unit, not be a single overpowered badass who doesn't afraid of anything.
The D20 system in general is catered to a party system. This is why there are so many stats that seem useless. For the times those come in handy, at least one party member will have the skillset to handle the situation, or at least that's the goal you have as a party to begin with.
Play more tabletop, OP.
>>321304596
>and then you need to add the fact that it's Bioware
I know you just want to fit in and call Bioware shit just like everyone else does, but there was a time when Bioware actually made good games. KOTOR was one of those games
>>321305189
The superfluous stats are actually how you min-max in KOTOR. They boost your EXP gain and because there's a finite amount of EXP the only way to reach the level cap is by maxing out all of the non-combat skills.
You also get the best gear through crafting.
>>321304380
This is the thing I'm slowly learning. It's ok to miss and fail something as that's your own individual storyline. The second playthrough is where you get to try out different things
>>321305353
That's actually pretty neat. I didn't really minmax all that hard though. The closest thing I got was not going beyond level 4 on Taris.
Kotor 2 seemed really easy without even trying all that hard though.
>>321304048
>>321304596
go back to reddit holy shit
>>321304048
you start getting party members in no time with all of these games
just use them for combat, or specialize your character in combat and use them for other specialties
there are always tons of ways around problems, just dip your toes in with an easier difficulty then restart the game with a plan in mind once you understand the core mechanics
>>321304380
this here. I made my fallout 1 character how i wanted, and as a result i can only shoot my enormous energy weapon once per turn and have no AP remaining.
It's hard, i die a lot, but i'm progressing and enjoying myself.
When i play fallout 2 i'll have a much better understanding, too.and then it's back to 3 and holy fuck i highly doubt i'll get through the first metro tunnel before quitting
>>321305585
They're both pretty casual mode even on the hardest difficulty. You just have to not build your character like a retard and max out the healing spell to face-roll everything.
>>321305353
What? I reached the level cap and didn't do any of that. I only leveled persuade and treat injury and used other party members for the other skills(which were totally pointless anyway).
