https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0rlCJ047Ds
Things Valvedrones say
>The AK is 100% accurate
>CSGO is a high skill ceiling game
>CSGO is the quintessential competitive FPS
Turns out they were very wrong.
Hold on to your butts, fellas. There's going to be a lot of damage control in this thread.
>>321021559
>ak is shit at long range
stop the fuckin' presses
>>321022112
Annnd they're off!
So tell me. Why is there such significant RNG in a competitive game?
Don't you know that RNG is an artificial cap on player skill?
>>321022545
Jesus fucking christ get a life
>>321021559
Op sucks at csgo. nothing else to see here
>>321022545
When the fuck have you ever shot an AK in real life?
CS GO has predictable RNG bullet patterns and everyone knows it, you're retarded if you think this is a new development OP.
>>321022545
Money management. Save and buy a fucking SG mate.
>gun is inaccurate outside of it's effective range
stop the presses lad
>>321022545
aks have shit moa I know cause I actually own one and not a stupid skin in a game like the retarded community that praises this shit game.
>>321022545
>everything is a rail gun or the game is shit
go away
>>321022545
because you shouldnt be using the AK at long-range.
What's the point of the scout if you can just use the AK whenever you want?
>>321023008
Well, the patterns are the only static things. The RNG spread is not.
Why do I get the impression that OP is really butthurt right now?
>>321022886
>"csgo is a competitive shooter"
>why is there so much RNG in it?
>LMAO GET A LYFE XDD #XREKT
>>321023367
Dude, he makes these threads multiple times a day, everyday.
It's pretty impressive, give him credit.
Ahhhh here we are. The weekly (for me anyway) CS GO misinformation, shitposting, and general bad b8 thread.
these threads never fail to amuse me.
The sheer amount of damage control CSbabbies put out can make anyone smile. They take so much pride in how "competitive" and "skill based" their game is, where fire fights are decided by a dice roll.
when shown evidence of what an issue this is, the tidal wave of teenage autism that comes forth can only be described as comedy gold.
Your game is a joke, cs babbies. Learn to play a real game like unreal tournament.
>>321022545
>Why is there such significant RNG in a competitive game?
It's competitive because people play it competitively. What is so hard to understand about this concept?
>>321023529
My favorite bit of misinformation is AK has 100% first shot accuracy.
You'd think people that have played this game for 1200+ hours would know it's simply not true.
>>321023553
This one he's literally shooting above his head each time. you can pause webm's to see
>>321023634
Sure, slot machine tournaments exist, but it doesn't make it any less silly.
>>321023634
a casual game can be played competitively like tic tac toe. that doesn't make it competitive.
>>321023636
No one has ever said this. You, like many people on /v/, are inventing imaginary adversaries that dont exist to create drama among yourself.
>>321023614
so really though is it just like, find anime face, put b8, press enter? like why. what do people gain from doing this, I can't even begin to fathom.
>>321022545
Buy the SG my man, I'll never understand why every CSGO shitposter thinks that the AK needs to be completely reliable at all ranges.
>>321021559
>The AK is 100% accurate
Said no one ever
>CSGO is a high skill ceiling game
Yes
>CSGO is the quintessential competitive FPS
Your are correct, this is wrong.
Based mods finally deleting bait posts
>>321023780
>complaining about anime on 4chan
does anyone have that comic where the kid with the baseball cap says "I hate weeaboos" then uses 4chan?
>>321023753
Yes it does, because the definition of a competitive game is one that is played competitively. You idiot.
>>321023764
I've heard that many many many times, on and off /v/
anybody have any cs go skins they can hook me up with?
https://steamcommunity.com/tradeoffer/new/?partner=121598061&token=-N1X13cA
>>321023780
You forgot part 2
claim the poster making this post hates anime on an anime board, rather than the person hating on animeposters.
watch for it, he's gonna accuse you of hating anime.
>>321023000
Yes. Have you bunny-hopped in real life?
>>321023614
You do know there is a lot more that goes into the game then just aiming and shooting right?
>CS:GO and Dota 2 takes skills; RNG takes skills
>HoTs and LoL are bad, play Dota 2 instead
>it's okay if Valve makes cosmetics, but it's not okay for other companies to do that
>Steam > Origin, uPlay, GoG
>>321024050
>>321024020
nice la
>>321023614
No one plays UT any more bro
>csgo is a hard game! so much better than call of doooooooooty
>how so
>well for starters, your bullets don't go where your cross hair is. gotta aim with ACTUAL skill
>ok wouldn't most people just follow the tracer rounds?
>nope because the tracers don't actually reflect where the bullets are going. wanna kill someone in CSGO? you get. good. got it?
>okay, i just looked up the spray patterns. that's pretty neat but that's not too bad with a little prac-
>RNG, baby :)) sorry but CSGO isn't some game you can "practice" with and get good. it's actually hard
>unlike COD?
>unlike COD :)
>>321024029
>world championship tic tac toe match
>draw for the 79th time in a row because tic tac toe is the easiest shit ever
>millions of underaged retards watching streamers play tic tac toe and unbox tic tac toe skins
>massive tournaments with huge prize pools
>tic tac toe must be competitive guys
>>321021559
who cares, everyone is using pistols now anyway.
>>321022545
non RNG games tend to be boring to watch, CSGO was made with esports in mind.
>>321024168
>You do know there is a lot more that goes into the game then just aiming and shooting right?
Seeing how shooting is more or less a dice roll in CS, I can see how the devs had to add other things to the game
>>321021559
GUYS GUYS GUYS
WHAT IF YOU JUST LIKE
MOVE CLOSER TO THE ENEMY BEFORE SHOOTING
AND NOT TRY TO GET HEADSHOTS AT RANGES MEANT FOR SNIPERS
>>321022545
>So tell me. Why is there such significant RNG in a competitive game?
RNG is a component in every single competitive video game.
>>321024287
Don't forget the part where you immediately make tic-tac-toe "perfectly balanced" because you switch who goes first ~
>>321024287
If that's what people like then that's what people like. If they want to do that they will.
I don't know why you're so confused about this, you might be retarded.
>>321024287
>Tfw competitive yoyo is the hypest shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mdSxr-Tv0A
>>321022545
AK and weapons have increased innacuracy at long range due to
1) game economy
now come back when you understand what that means.
>>321024417
In every single competitive game, period, basically. It's just called randomness in real life. Poker, for example, has a particular amount of randomness. Any sport played outside has randomness due to weather conditions, wind, air pressure.
>>321024627
>Someone so skilled at something is relegated to performing on a popup stage outside a shopping mall because it's socially not cool
Fug, I think yoyos are for faggots but this dude is mad skilled.
>>321024946
the difference is poker is about the mind games involved and mastering body language. It at least has that going for it
You can have the superior tactical play but the unlucky RNG and lose in CS
>>321024389
Basically this. RNG builds tension. It's why games with crits are so engaging.
>>321023859
DUDE ONE TAPS LMAO
>>321025239
not really, without RNG like in accurate perfect games like quake the actual representation of skill is all there
this is why real sports like football and soccer are extremely exciting, there is no RNG. I know I'm comparing video games to real life but RNG is not involved in anything else
>>321024389
>was made with esports in mind
>lets port css to consoles and call it something else
>csgo
>>321024407
the RNG of the game allows for more pot shots
even at that one distance where it has a 69% hit chance on the head, its so much better to just take pot shots than to actually aim
>>321025361
>football
Funny that you would mention the single-most RNG object of all time: the handegg.
>>321025487
>knowing how to throw a ball precisely
there is no RNG in this, you either throw it good or you become ashly manning and give the other team the ball 7 times in the season
>>321025161
>You can have the superior tactical play but the unlucky RNG and lose in CS
You could say the same thing about poker. Mind games are mind games, it's all about guessing right what cards you're dealt is borderline RNG as well.
>>321021559
>valve is ruining the ak/m4 so everyone is forced to use their pet projects like the SMGs and the pistols
I thought everyone knew this
>>321025239
>>321025361
>>321025487
>>321025460
RNG is a joke mechanic made for average matches to not be complete stomps by the more skilled players.
See this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfuT2EK6es
He only, I repeat ONLY hits those air rockets if he correctly predicts that strafe movement path (it's not an obvious movement path, the target can evade rockets).
He must use his skill to hit the target, where RNG could make him miss when he should have hit, and make him hit when he should have missed.
>>321025627
Well in Poker you can simply choose not to win. There have been a lot hands won not at the RNG but at the body language. What stirs the pot even more is when a player returns his cards to the dealer face down
>>321025361
>Quake
>No RNG
You're a dumbass.
>>321025004
There's a lot of amazing shit around that is just "not cool" and never gets recognition sadly
>>321025708
>game where you can shoot accurately mid-air
That's disgusting.
>>321025708
I wouldn't call that RNG in the sense you have no control over it
in that video the victim can choose where he goes which is completely up to him, since most players DON'T actually attempt to move in the air they die to those air shots by a shooter who predicts the path. The shooter either misses with a bad prediction or the victim moves. Whereas with CSGO, bullets are instantly traveling and RNG dictates whether its a hit or a miss purely on a dice roll. There isn't any real prediction with leading a target like with TF2 rocket launchers
>>321021559
I have 2k hrs. This isn't anything new.
csgo has a very high skillcap, the main factor actually being teamwork/teamplaymost of you mmbabies have no idea what this is
>>321025708
>it's impossible to get lucky and hit a flickshot you haven't practiced
How new are you to FPS? Be completely honest.
>>321025548
Real world physics applied in a moment to moment game of football from the players point of view is beyond human comprehension and has more variables than an RNG system in a video game.
>>321026018
The real world does not have RNG
>>321025976
You can say the same thing about any Competitive shooter that has teams, it doesn't make the base game any better.
>>321025995
there's a difference between coincidence of you hitting a shot, and you being on target and missing because of RNG
>>321026018
Just because you don't observe it or comprehend it doesn't mean it doesn't happen or its not predictable or theres not a pattern
>>321026097
I didn't say that you idiot.
I said physics in the real world result in more unpredictable variables than an RNG system in a video game.
>>321026210
just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its not a pattern or its RNG
>>321026170
You can't predict wind gusts just before you kick a ball in football. It just happens and it can totally throw off the accuracy of a kick.
>>321026131
>>321026252
Didn't say that either, fuck your reading comprehension is terrible.
>>321025995
>>321026332
Just admit that RNG is a joke mechanic and CS is for retards. The longer you deny it the more dishonest you appear
>>321026018
>beyond human comprehension
Newton accurately described those physics 200 years ago.
There's actually very few variables in the way the ball moves around, a person could make a rough aproximation incredibly easily in his head.
The fuck are you talking about
>>321025708
So guessing makes a game high skill?
>>321026407
>Newton accurately described those physics 200 years ago.
Newton wasn't kicking a ball when a windgust moved his ball 30cm to the right while it was mid flight causing him to miss.
You're a fucking idiot.
>>321026406
randomness is in like almost every sport
its really all esports and real sports have in common
>>321026310
Just because you don't know a wind gust is coming doesn't mean its RNG.
The same principle applies to particle duality and actually observing an electron. You cannot observe something in the state because observing it changes its outcome
>>321026406
I do think the RNG in CS is shit. Valve is going out of their way to gimp the trademark ak and m4 just so people buy skins for other guns. Doesn't mean you're not wrong about what is and isn't random, faggot.
>>321026518
>is in like
you really are a teenager. That explains why you like CS
>>321026498
You're a fucking idiot, just because you can't measure it doesn't mean its random or its not a pattern
>>321026558
>Just because you don't know a wind gust is coming doesn't mean its RNG.
Once again I didn't say it was RNG.
>>321026712
Then stop comparing it to RNG as if its a real life thing because its not. There are no randomly occuring events in the world at all. Everything that acts has a reaction
If you crouch, you can be more accurate at the cost of being a "sitting duck"
If you invest $300 more for the aug/krieg you'll have more accuracy at a longer distance (esp. when scoped)
If you need pinpoint accuracy, use scout or pref. awp.
>>321026645
No shit, but because the person who is in the act of a competitive sport cannot predict, react or measure it within the timeframe required it effectively has the exact same effect as RNG.
The fact that you niggers can't understand this says a lot.
>>321026815
It doesn't matter if he can't predict it doesn't have "the exact same effect as RNG" because its not. Just because you can't predict something does not mean it acts like RNG in any aspect
>>321026965
>Just because you can't predict something does not mean it acts like RNG in any aspect
Yes it does that's exactly the argument that has been argued against RNG in this thread.
>>321026498
>Newtown can't describe wind drag!
>Wind is so unpredictable that a hundred kilometer burst will come out of nowhere
And here it shows that you know exactly jack shit about either physics or football. Assuming wind speed is a variable between a and b, you can predict a range where the ball will land.
>>321027040
>Yes it does
not it doesn't
physically, mathematically, everything, there is NOT a single aspect of RNG in the real world
please go to fucking school and pick up a book you dumb nigger
>>321027078
So a human can accurately kick a ball in between goal posts while under pressure from an opposing team in any weather with a 100% success rate?
valve has proved their incompetence in the latest patch and even redditors are admitting that valve is pathetic at balancing games.
>>321027186
>Still dodging the point
Ok anon.
>>321027217
It's not just Valve, CS has always had this casual bullshit baked in. In fact, 1.6 even had sever recoil pattern chosen at random.
Revolver fixed the game.
>>321027210
You're a fucking idiot, you keep ignoring the fact that just because you can't predict it doesn't mean its somehow comparable to RNG.
Its fucking not
>>321027287
>real life is like RNG
>no its not because X, Y, Z physical reasons that says thats not how it works in any aspect what so ever
>YESH IT DUZ BECAUSE I SED SO!
>>321026406
Admit that it isn't really random, and that it follows a pattern that is memorizable and controllable. Any comp match will clearly demonstrate high level players going fully automatic while consistently hitting shots.
Granted, first shot rng on then mid tier rifles is too high, it doesn't completely make the game luck based.
>>321027210
No, because football palyers are:
Shit at physics
Shit at kicking with the appropiate force
Shit at kicking at the appropiate spot
>>321026018
No, that's skill. Physics don't change. The skill is working with physics and conditions. You control how you interact with this.
RNG describes variables out of your control. You cannot adapt or alter your execution to accommodate.
>>321027391
>just because you can't predict it doesn't mean its somehow comparable to RNG.
It has the same end result. Numerous external factors altered what your predictions were which resulted in you missing a goal/shot.
>YESH IT DUZ BECAUSE I SED SO!
Anon pls calm down
>>321027548
>It has the same end result.
No it doesn't, the thing you're describing has no random properties to it what so ever. Everything is working in harmony and there is no different outcomes if the initial conditions are always the same.
Just becuase there are numerous external factors doesn't change that
Just because you can't predict the outcome and you can't understand it doesn't change that
Just because you're a huge fucking faggot who doesn't know shit doesn't change the fact that you're wrong in every conceivable notion, context or interpretation of every retarded thing you've said.
>CS:GO video
>Ends with meme spouting
The neo-CS Community ladies and gentleman
>>321026805
Pretty much the only thing that needs to be said in this thread.
>>321027298
Most people on /v/ don't know this funnily, there was a ton of shitposting claiming 1.6 had completely static patterns every time you sprayed. Hell, the fact that people think first shot RNG is somehow an unknown mechanic proves that /v/ doesn't know shit about the game.
I recently started the game and I'm okay at it, sometimes I'll rank high and other times I'm complete trash. One problem I have so far is that I've come across three hackers in the past week. I hope I don't run into that when I play competitive.
>>321027764
>neo-cs community knows more about the game than vets
What are you trying to say exactly?
RNG can't be manipulated with skill so the difficulty is contrived from trying to fight the RNG instead of fighting the enemy. Hence "artificial" difficulty: the difficulty comes from a source that can't be outplayed and thus isn't a fair challenge, it's just a stand-in that simulates a challenge by fucking with the player and forcing them to mitigate bad things. You can argue that's a skill in itself, but that's not a real challenge because there's no way to overcome it. You just have to keep rerolling the dice until you get a favorable outcome.
The RNG can never be defeated. It's an artificial stand-in that introduces hardship to the player, used to substitute for other things that would introduce difficulty while also being fair challenges, such as smarter AI. The reason it's so common is because it's far simpler to code and can be applied to practically anything.
Example: No one would say a slot machine is difficult to beat. It's hard to win, sure, but it's not "difficult to beat", because the fact is, you can't "beat" a slot machine. You can't learn a pattern or become more skilled in a certain cognitive area that would help you win. You can't figure out a better strategy or even improve your odds. It's purely up to chance. Games with elements like that, which leave the win/lose outcome ip to chance, are artificially difficult.
*while standing*
I'd like to see tests done while crouching.
>>321028112
it wouldn't make a difference.
Let's say we have two basketball simulations. Player A is in a basketball simulation that has one standard hoop. Player B is in a basketball simulation that has 3 horizontal positions where the hoop can appear, but it changes based on a randomly generated number by a computer every 2 seconds. Both players are at the highest level of skill and take perfect shots for the middle hoop configuration in their respective sims. Player A makes the shot and Player B misses because the hoop switched to the right most configuration right after he took the shot.
Remember, Player B has the skill, but due to circumstances completely out of his control, he wasn't able to take the shot even though it was perfect. This is why artificial randomness lowers the skill ceiling.
daily reminder that CS was made because shitters from quake couldn't gitgud
Someone needs to make a shooter without random shit
>CS:GO
>Gears of War
>Quake Live
>Halo 5
>Destiny
Everything is shit
>>321028714
>quake
literally who
>>321028714
daily reminder that trash like quake is dead and no amount of butthurt would revive the shit genre that is arena shooter
>>321028078
Recoil spread patterns can be controlled and concentrated into a fairly small concentrated spot. SGs have next to no first shot rng and snipers have none. Git gud. If CS was completely random better players wouldn't consistently win.
>>321029093
The only living game that resembles an arena shooter at all is Gears of War, & its argued that even that is fucking dead
>>321028897
It exists. Quake is not random at all. But the same shitters who complain about CS because muh RNG will complain because unfair advantage of some sort.
>>321029093
That isn't really an argument against his point though. Your statement just makes you look like the person he described as you are celebrating the fact that you're playing a game that had a low skill ceiling in mind with the intent to play competitively.
>>321023000
have you ever pulled the ak to the ground drawing a T shape to pull off a recoil pattern?
>>321029192
And even when recoil patterns are compensated for perfectly, you still can't account for the RNG spread, which is why CSGO is the lowest skill ceiling shooter on the market.
>>321029263
Quake is dead though
>>321021559
CS:GO is COD for Teens
>But muh realism
Like how firearms, and weapons never jam?
CS Source was great
>crouch jumping through objects
>hiding behind them until people ran by
>popping up and shooting them
got 16 kills in one round doing this on office
>>321029263
The only people that complain about the RNG in CS are the only ones that have enough skill to be negatively affected by it.
So to call them shitters would be backwards. The shitters are the ones that rely on RNG to give them a huge chance. It's a handicap through and through.
All this shit about RNG.
People don't actually think that anyone could go win ESL as long as they are lucky, are they?
Is this the work of upset gold novas?
>i would be global elite if i wasn't so unlucky!
>>321024417
Fighting games.
>>321025695
they rolled that back
>>321024205
Not sure why people side with Valve at this point other than relatively cheap games....I mean if you don't have access to online sites that have better offers around the year.
>>321029374
And it brings me great joy that the "skillful" game like quake and its clone will never become popular again. All the quakefags can do is crying and shitting on /v/.
>>321029738
First bullet accuracy has been a problem since launch. It's why everyone and their mom still spray at nearly all ranges. Randomness in spray is acceptable, randomness in tap shooting is completely unacceptable.
>>321021559
If GO doesn't have a high skill ceiling and is based on RNG then why are there people more than capable of repeatedly wrecking anybody in this thread? Why do the top three teams consistently beat almost everybody they match against? How did a team get an 87-0 win streak if it's based on luck?
I'm not going to deny that there is RNG, but to say that it prevents the game from having a high skill ceiling is just straightup denial. CSGO has the highest skill ceiling of any FPS that's actively played.
>>321021559
OP, I'm a big fan of your work but you really need some infographics and copypasta (and maybe some webms) to prove your points; just linking a youtube video isn't enough (even if the infographics and pasta contain the same information as the video)
>>321029662
False dichotomy.
A skill floor exists. Strategy exists.
CS may have the lowest skill ceiling in the FPS genre, but it's not a straight up slot machine. The problem is the weight of influence the RNG has on the outcome of the game in the short term (where competitive matches take place).
>>321029461
Yes, and? Shitters would complain either way.
>>321029374
At some point you are going to have to prove that learning how the game works in term of map design and gunplay mechanics, something which requires much of the same though process as Quake, is low skill.
>>321029635
What. You are so obviously trolling its stopped being funny.
But for the sake of argument: You either learn the game or you don't. The RNG is there for the show. The impact it has on the game is very limited, and a pro will win 10 times out of 10 against an average player. That's a fact.
Now competitions are rigged rather commonly, but should the RNG be so horrible, the cheating would be far more obvious.
>>321029738
>interest patch to CS:GO to mix things up
>every rabid CS:GO fanboy downvoted it a million times because I DONT LIKE CHANGE
>they take back pretty much everything
You cucks can't even have your game changed in anyway without everyone throwing a fit. Even the revolver which wasn't even overpowered was gutted to hell.
>>321029439
The spread follows a pattern my man, even if it was 100% static no human on earth could completely land every single shot on the exact same pixel. Matches aren't dictated by single situations, and he overwhelming majority of conflicts will result in the better player coming out alive.
I'd agree that Quake and arena shooters in general require more skill, but CS is pretty much right under them. Also you can't comment on a games depth without playing it at a high level, so post some proof of dem skillz bb.
>>321030236
>a pro will win 10 times out of 10 against an average player
Prove it.
>>321030309
You're right that CS is under Quake in terms of skill ceiling.
Quake is right at the top and CS is dead bottom.
>>321029986
I'm not OP and I don't keep up with the scene, but didn't a couple top dudes just get caught cheating?
Anybody can win if they cheat
anime is for dick suckers
>>321030587
Two people on two mediocre teams got caught cheating and were banned. Nobody else has any actual evidence against them.
>>321030563
Wow good argument you really convinced me with those spicey opinions my man.
>>321029986
That's really proof alone to dispute anything stated in this thread. If the game was actually completely random there wouldn't be consistent top players.
>>321030587
Not every person at high level cheats aspie.
>>321030476
Damned if I do, damned if I don't eh.
Look at this, the first result of a search on youtube because I'm not going to waste my time any more than that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OU_oS7NNYA
Let me just preempt your future arguments by saying that I understand this is not a 10-0 in favour, that there are differences in version between then and now, that this is a not a perfectly fitting argument, and that I cannot tell you to check for yourself because you will accuse me of shifting the burden of proof. Even though it is readily evident.
Moving on, a pro has far more knowledge of the game and its mechanics. RNG does not even work in favour of the noob because there are many, many mitigating factors. Such as map knowledge, recoil compensation, practice, reflexes and so on.
As an aside, it would be the exact same in Quake.
i play alot of counter strike but i honestly cant see how anyone can defend this
this is pretty much why I only use the awp and cant understand people using anything but the awp
but like for real. Just try to defend this. What can possibly be the point of a dice roll on shooting, an action that should be rewarded if you aim your cross hair perfectly. Why the fuck should there be any element of luck in that
>>321021559
>AK is 100% accurate
>AWP is now obsolete
Thanks, no RNG allowed
what next, we will make a pistol that has as much damage as AWP?
can someone gift me some skins please????
https://steamcommunity.com/tradeoffer/new/?partner=121598061&token=-N1X13cA
>>321030196
So are you saying NiP were just super lucky when they went 87-0 or whatever?
>>321031512
Sent ;)
>>321031512
sent ;)
Seriosly though, I'll trade you my awp redline for yourHan solo dies
>>321031452
It is still a challenge to hit a moving target without a scope in the head from long range with the ak if it was 100 percent accurate.
>>321030820
anime is pretty shit.
>>321031671
if you are a fucking faggot, maybe.
>>321023614
Wait, the AK-47 is '100%' accurate up to a point while other guns are much more accurate. Wouldn't that just mean that firing at someone outside of your gun's range despite the RNG involved is YOUR fault when it fails to hit?
Part of games like this is managing the RNG and minimizing risk.
poker requires 0 skill because there is RNG
>>321029986
>>321031134
hold it right there, you're not dispelling anything with that bullshit claim. Consistently good players can be explained with one thing. The fact that beyond their skilled understanding of the things in the game that DO require skill, they are consistently lucky. Let me explain.
No one can deny there are skills in the game that aren't random. Positioning, teamwork, eco'ing, knowing when to walk, upon many many other skills. And there ARE skills that go into shooting as well, knowing GENERALLY where to put your crosshair. At the end of the day however, this can really throw things off in a game in which competitors are supposed to be around the same given skill group, or to simplify things, a matchmade game of people in the same skill group.
To make things clearer, examine this hypothetical,
Take a group of Global Elites who are EXACTLY the same. They all have exactly the same knowledge and practice of knowing when to walk, what to buy, optimal spots for each map, and they even all react to things exactly the same. Now, given the fact that one team will win over the other because probability is LITERALLY taken into account when registering a shot (regardless whether or not your crosshair was entirely centered over the enemies head) can you really call that fair?
So in the end if you are to examine a similiary skilled group of players, a large factor in who comes out on top (where a bullet fucking goes) is largely in part to RNG. Some people are consistently luckier than others. Go ahead an flip a coin 10 times, I can bet you won't get heads 5 times and tails 5 times
>>321030309
>no human on earth could completely land every single shot on the exact same pixel.
top awpers would like to have a word with you.
>>321030476
Gold Nova four is the average player. You don't even need to be a pro to easily carry at GN4. Pros go into MM against GEs (who can shit all over novas without even trying), completely fuck around, and still destroy them. There was a casual tournament recently where three random pros (who didn't get prizes and were only playing for fun) with two shitters went up against amateur teams and they still only lost one map. They had challenge rounds where they had to up their sens to 50 or use shotguns and yell "Pull!" after every shot and they still consistently won.
>>321032247
>Not skilled enough to get consistent coin flips
Fuck outta here casual.
>>321032052
I won't say poker requires 0 skill, but its definitely not 100% either.
A fucking game in which people compete should be 100% skill based in my opinion. Why would you ever play a game of supposed skill when any of its elements can be left entirely to chance?
>falling for the crona jew
>>321032510
I don't understand the alternative. Should a 9mm pistol be as accurate as a sniper rifle? That'd be bizarre.
Different guns should have different MOAs like in real life, don't you think?
>>321032371
anon pls
>>321032247
No. That's not how it works.
On average, a perfectly balanced coin will result in a 50/50 split, on an infinite series of perfect throws.
The amount of factors in that scenario means that RNG is not the sole reason for victory or defeat.
if every gun were 100% accurate, what incentive would there be to buy any other gun besides the cheapest one that can kill in one headshot?
>>321032247
>Take a group of Global Elites who are EXACTLY the same.
Doesn't exist, your argument is nothing but hypothetical.
>>321032661
>Different guns should have different MOAs like in real life, don't you think?
MOA applies to a bullet falling. Not saying I'm a big fan of the game, but Battlefield does this it right. Bullets drop, they don't fucking randomly go laterally.
Yes you should have to compensate for bullet drop in an fps that is attempting to achieve some level of realism. Not the bullet randomly jutting to the left or right.
>>321032891
Weight, penetration, usual range of use, scope vs no scope. Rate of fire.
Quake has the Railgun, a pixel perfect one shot kill. It has a low rate of fire, so while it saw much use competitively, it was not the only weapon.
All weapons in Quake were very nearly pixel perfect. They all saw use for varied reasons.
>>321032247
>Now, given the fact that one team will win over the other
Or they'll tie.
>>321033167
I mostly just remember the go to guns being the Railgun (Accurate) and the Rocket Launcher (Splash). Anything else were inferior to these two.
Besides doesn't the Machine gun have RNG in it? Two fresh spawn people, one loses because of slightly worse RNG.
>>321033026
the argument applies even more when they aren't exactly the same you fucking dunk. I was giving the other side some leeway by making the hypothetical.
This whole thing becomes especially problematic with varied skill groups. You have people who are new to the game who are being rewarded for a lack of accuracy and skilled people who are being penalized for pinpoint accuracy. And don't see the opposite as a reward. It's how it should be. You should always be rewarded for your accuracy, and always punished for your inaccuracy. Why should anyone, no matter the skill group, ever be rewarded for inaccuracy or punished for accuracy?
>used to play with a team on faceit nearly every day for months, could pubstomp
>real life got in the way and i couldn't find the time to keep playing, stop playing csgo altogether
>irl gets less busy, start playing other online games here and there
>make friends with people occasionally
>most of the time they're shitters who play csgo every now and again, and when see i have it, they ask me if i want to play
>WTF DUDE YOURE GLOBAL?!?!?!?!
h-how do you guys react when people do this?
>>321033171
yeah that can happen sometimes
but maybe that tie SHOULDN'T have happened. Maybe, no not maybe, I can GUARANTEE there were shots fired in that match that should have hit when they didn't. How can you call that fair?
people are pissing and moaning about MUH RNG but the real problem is entire enemy teams stacking mid with fucking AWPs. Hell the AWP in general is just no fun.
>>321033151
>MOA applies to a bullet falling.
Nope.
> Sometimes, a precision firearm's accuracy will be measured in MOA. This simply means that under ideal conditions i.e. no wind, match-grade ammo, clean barrel, and a vise or a benchrest used to eliminate shooter error, the gun is capable of producing a group of shots whose center points (center-to-center) fit into a circle, the average diameter of circles in several groups can be subtended by that amount of arc. For example, a 1 MOA rifle should be capable, under ideal conditions, of shooting an average 1-inch groups at 100 yards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_and_second_of_arc
>>321033516
>Two teams that are exactly the same in every way shape and form
>"maybe that tie SHOULDN'T have happened"
>"How can you call that fair?"
>>321033578
This isn't a problem if you're not nova.
>>321033394
>You have people who are new to the game who are being rewarded for a lack of accuracy
No you don't. Experienced players will ALWAYS beat someone whose new in CS. You're talking out of your ass.
>>321033578
because awps are essentially OP in a game where everything else doesn't function on the same principal they do.
The awp (and now I guess the scoped rifles apply as well) can be 100% accurate 100% of the time
>>321033151
>Yes you should have to compensate for bullet drop in an fps that is attempting to achieve some level of realism.
Why? Bullet drop wouldn't even be an issue at the ranges that CS is played at.
>>321033748
Oh yeah, that's why pro teams run five AWPs, right?
>>321033656
>>321033656
I made the hypothetical to isolate shooting as the skill we're observing. If the aiming were actually not a gamble, I wouldn't need to make the hypothetical to begin with. The idea is that in its current state, shooting being a gamble, it WILL decide certain situations, no matter how skilled a player is.
>>321033748
>>321033578
AWPs aren't 100% accurate and having more than 2 on a team is literally retarded.
>>321033810
Why? Bullet drop wouldn't even be an issue at the ranges that CS is played at.
okay so then its not a problem and every gun should be 100% accurate
>>321034005
That's not how guns work.
>>321034113
>video game is unrealistic
stop the presses
this entire thread is retarded, everybody bumping it should be banned including me
>>321033621
look, regardless of what it actually means, I'm arguing this for a VIDEO GAME for GAMEPLAY purposes. Yes I understand this is a game attempting to achieve semi realism, but its also being played COMPETITIVELY. In my opinion competitive games should not have things that are random. Bullet drop you can learn and compensate for. Random juts left or right can not be compensated for. Would it be okay for guns to randomly jam too?
>>321033936
How the hell does a hypothetical "both teams are exactly the same" thing work when neither the maps nor weapon purchases are symmetrical? You're operation under the assumption that in this scenario they're on a blank field with all the same gear.
>>321034113
okay but its a fucking video game thats being played competitively. Why should anything competitive be left to chance? You are taking some skill out of the equation. What if basketball had random obstacles that came out of the floor and randomly tripped some players? Would that be okay?
>>321034005
MOA still exists and if we're being realistic, MOA should be exaggerated because the soldiers in the game are not robots. They are human beings shouldering rifles and holding pistols. Even if we are to assume they are all expert marksmen, their MOA would be far from the ideal. They are running around in firefights. They are not going to be perfectly accurate, for reasons that should be obvious. Not only that, but different guns having different MOAs makes sense in a game balance respect as well.
Look, we get it, you couldn't get past LE. That doesn't mean the game is horribly flawed. It just means you're not good enough.
>>321034194
Regardless of how realistic the cone of inaccuracy is or isn't, it's perfectly sound logically from a gameplay perspective. A p250 should not be as accurate as a high power rifle. I don't understand why DMGs are constantly shitting their pants over this.
CSGO is a game about risk management.
>>321034005
So every shitty gun should be 100% accurate? Why the fuck would you buy an M4 if the Famas is just as accurate for almost 1k less? Why are you basing your arguments on realism for a game that's never been realistic?
skill is a crutch for the unlucky
>>321034306
>thats being played competitively
Why does the fact that people play it competitively matter? Does it bother you that people enjoy games in ways that you don't approve of?
Show me how your autism works.
>>321034249
take your webm for example
what if the first guy who rounded the door had perfectly identical reaction time or to make things more realistic, say they just happened to react at the same time and center their crosshairs over the other person's head at the same moment.
There is a chance that one of them will miss, true or false?
Hell and even if they didn't react at the same time or weren't equally skilled, why should the more skilled player be subjected to chance fucking up his shot?
>>321034319
>They are human beings shouldering rifles and holding pistols
no they are not just fucking human beings
they can be shot in the leg multiple times and continue running
they can run forever
they can jump all fucking day without fatigue
they never need to shit or piss
get realism the fuck out of the equation, its a video game that is being played competitively, WHY SHOULD ANYTHING BE LEFT TO CHANCE? SHOULD YOUR CHARACTER RANDOMLY SNEEZE? SHOULD THERE BE A 0.00000001 CHANCE OF YOUR CHARACTER HAVING A HEART ATTACK?
>>321034482
>why should the more skilled player be subjected
Because it's a game, not a matter of life and death
You're only "subjected" to it insofar as you play it, nobody is forcing you to play to win. Why care if it's not 100% fair?
>>321034482
>There is a chance that one of them will miss, true or false?
False, they're five fucking feet away from each other.
>>321034657
Did you stop reading right after that sentence?
>>321034482
Well given that he had an R8 revolver that can 1-hit through the head with a .4 second delayed fire and pinpoint accuracy and I had an MP9 that requires three shots to the dome but has a high ROF at a distance where the RNG is borderline irrelevant boils down to having the right tool for the job, which is what CS is all about.
>>321034459
>Show me how your autism works.
I'm not into dudes anon
but I will say that the idea comes from people defending the game by saying it is pure skill or people not acknowledging there is a pretty big element of chance.
>>321034482
>There is a chance that one of them will miss, true or false?
At that range? Absolutely zero. The thing in CS:GO is that RNG really only comes into play when you try shooting at someone outside the effective range of your gun.
Risk management is a skill too.
>>321031960
nah bro, 100% rngak honestly falls off super fast, but theres nothing wrong with that
>>321034704
finally
a csgo admits his game is poorly designed and literally not a fair game.
>>321034807
do you think the dmgs in this thread have any idea how to actually play this game? do you think anyone complaining about 'rng' even knows how to use smokes and flashes? they're just mge babbies who probably play at a retardedly high sens
>>321034787
okay lets say the same situation happened at Long A on dust 2 when one player is near the slope to pit and the other is rounding the corner from ct spawn.
>>321034306
If basketball always comes down to the better team winning then why do teams playing at home have a significantly higher win rate?
>>321034767
It is a pretty high skill game. Case in point you are not very good at it.
>but it has bullet spread and RNG
That doesn't really change the fact, if you go toe-to-toe with an active competitive team you will lose 99.999% of the time. It's not the ultimate test of skill but nobody claims it is. You get BTFO in every thread you make or shitpost in, I need to understand why you keep going.
>>321033394
They would be rewarded for their accuracy 99% of the time if they used the SG senpai.
>>321034927
Source and 1.6 are better, GO is ass
You can't even name a shooter with no random spread or RNG, it isn't possible
>>321034996
Then it's the guy with the MP9's fault for trying to engage at that range and he would get his shit stomped on for trying to hit someone at a range where he has about 30% chance to hit. And the 30% chance he does it's not going to do enough to kill.
Short version, unless the people he's shooting at are completely retarded he will lose 100% of the time. Like >>321034741 said. It's having the right tool for the job.
>>321034996
Then it boils down to what gear they have. That's still a range where RNG for all rifles except the Galil are irrelevant. Whoever has the gun that can 1-hit headshot wins.
>>321021559
>video shows with math the SG is superior to AK
>everyone in the game still uses AK solely because SG is a "cod gun"
Is this autism?
>>321035015
damn now that you mention it. home court advantage is pretty unfair. If they wanted basketball to be truly fair, they would remove that.
>>321034996
I'm starting to think you don't actually play the game, because with the same guns? R8 wins because it's far more accurate. That's of course assuming the R8 user can account for the delay properly. If he can't, but the SMG user bursts properly then he should be able to win. This is all assuming they're perfectly capable of getting consistent headshots on pixel small targets and don't have smokes, flashes, or teammates.
I guess you're gonna bitch about how having different guns or tools is RNG now.
>>321035253
I just don't like the SG. It looks and feels like shit to use.
>>321035253
AK is cheaper and mostly does the job, SG is situational. I love me some SG, but I can understand why someone wouldn't buy it.
>>321022545
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj2H5F81PYE
Did someone in CSGO rape your child, you make these threads every fucking day.
CS:GO is so unfun that the largest majority of people playing it probably never played a previous CS, as proven by the fact Counter Strike isn't suppose to be 5v5.
32 player game lel
>>321035918
Nothing can quell RNGfag's autism
he will not stop until he convinces the world that it is impossible to be good at CS:GO because it's all coin toss fingers-crossed luck and nobody is actually good at the game
>>321035413
>I guess you're gonna bitch about how having different guns or tools is RNG now.
ill never argue that is RNG because actually skills go into managing, buying, and using equipment.
Just answer this, can you admit that cs go's aiming has probability factor into it at unreasonable ranges? I mean watch the fucking video, at 800 units (Pit to long A doors) there is a 1 in 20 chance you will miss. Why should that chance exist at that range?
>>321035953
>Counter Strike isn't suppose to be 5v5.
>>321036035
>Why should that chance
Why not? You have literally never proven this. Why are weapons not allowed to have spread?
>>321035953
>as proven by the fact Counter Strike isn't suppose to be 5v5.
>32 player game lel
It was always a 5v5 competitive game. It was the same back when you kept playing on 32/32 de_dust2 servers in 1.6.
>>321022545
I'll bite.
I agree that RNG is bullshit, but it's there to be balance. Reason why your accuracy goes to shit after 5 bullets is so the other person can react to your piss poor aim. Though you can control the spray to be somewhat precise. I wish the game was more about burst over spray control, but doesn't seem like it'll ever happen. Considering the shit storm that happened, though that did shit on both.
The range RNG is so the CTs have better chances at defending which is why there things like flashbangs/smokes.
AK is also a cheaper gun, but also has the added benefit of 1 headshot kills with head armor which CTs don't have.
>>321036035
if you're in range then you'll hit, but if you're not in range then you might hit but you might also not hit. if you want to guarantee a hit, then buy a more accurate gun but be aware that it may bring disadvantages in other categories. There is literally nothing wrong with this.
>>321036151
if two players have AKs, one is long A doors and the other is pit, and the one in pit reacts to the guy exiting out of long doors before he does, and it just happens to be that 1 in 20, he misses, and thats just enough time for the other guy to snap and kill the guy in pit, is that truly fair? Is there anything the guy in pit could have done in the moment?
>>321036035
>>321036035
Chance doesn't exist at that range if you buy an SG, an awp, scout, or even a deagle. They have their own downsides though.
>>321036341
he could have chosen a better engagement distance
>>321022545
From someone who has never played CSGO, RNG is a factor because otherwise variety in the guns wouldn't matter.
If every single shot was perfectly accurate at every given range, then guns would be objectively ranked. One gun would have the fastest rate of fire, with perfect accuracy, no questions asked.
The game would then devolve into people using the same gun because it is objectively and technically the quickest and best way to kill someone.
Admittedly, the game would then become purely a game of reactions, timing and skill, and while that is essentially what gaming is about, these games would be pretty lacklustre to watch, and maybe even play, if everyone was forced to use the same weapons.
With RNG you have to trade off risk vs reward. Do you use an AK at a longer range because it is more powerful yet less accurate or do you use a weaker, but more reliable gun. This, at least in my opinion, makes the game more interesting to play and to watch.
>>321036341
To not sit in Pit but closer to Long Doors.
>>321036341
>Is that truly fair?
No game is "truly fair." You literally have no point.
>>321036341
Pit to long doors isn't even far enough for that RNG to even matter, and the guy in pit must be a shit shot if he can't burst out 4 more bullets on point for the kill before the guy at doors could really react to it.
>>321023985
fuck off jack
>>321029518
>CS:GO is ArmA for Teens
no, wait
>COD is ArmA for Teens
that's more accurate
>>321036341
He could have chosen a better position, or a better gun, knowing he may run into someone at a longer range.
These games aren't purely about shooting reactions, there are some elements of strategic thinking, not just, BLAH BLAH GUNS BLAZING.
>>321021559
Grab a Quake 3 / Quake Live / CSGO / CSS top player, give them a couple hours or days to understand the mechanics of a new game, and then pit them against a top player in any other non-war simulator game (ArmA, AA).
Thing is, it usually results in the Quake / CS player tearing ass all over the galaxy. Why would that be?
>>321035179
>source is better than CSGO
when did this meme come about? when CSGO was released the universal consensus was that it was better than source and was better/worse than 1.6 depending on personal preferences.
>>321023282
clearly didn't watch the OP's video. here's an easier one for your simple mind to comprehend https://youtube.com/watch?v=fHbo2vCtQVU
>>321036813
take two perfectly equally skilled players and have them play 100 matches of CSGO. it WILL NOT be an even 50-50 draw. Why would that be? HINT:RNG shit
I love how it used to be "guns are 100% accurate you just need to learn the recoil pattern" when you tried telling silverbabbs that there was random spread and now it's acknowledged but people defend this shitty mechanic to the death.
>>321023614
Why would I play a dead game?
That's like saying I should go back to tribes or even quake
>>321036341
>Play closer in pit
>Play a different spot
>Burst/spray him down before he gets a HS off
>Fall back and let his teammate at long engage
>Back down and flash out so he can reengage
>Use one of the half a dozen guns that are perfectly accurate at that distance but will end up fucking him over more than an AK because of other downsides
Aren't both M4s more accurate than an AK?
>>321036830
What? "Source is better" was the majority until I don't know, dreamhack 2013? Here are the complaints I can remember
>vignette is fucking bullshit
>its brown as fuck
>look at these screenshots of 10 hits and theyre still alive
>no m4a1? fucking trash
>hit boxes are garbage, look at css glorious hitbox
I can keep going on. People hated the fuck out of it, because it wasn't CSS and was in transition to be a wannabe 1.6
>>321025713
>>321025161
can you please shut the fuck up about poker since you obviously never played it beyond some shitty $10 home game and have no knowledge about it. CSGO and poker are both RNG games. the RNG involved in poker is vastly more significant to the extent that it's not uncommon for total unknowns to crush pros in high skill tournaments and place big due to luck streaks. Similar events are not possible in CSGO, because the effect of randomness is no where near as significant.
>>321036830
Fags that started with source don't realize how much more RNG it had over 1.6 and GO.
>>321036830
>GO babbies
Literally noone said GO was better than 1.6 and most people kept playing Source as well.
GO didn't blow up until they released skins and stopped having relevant price pools for 1.6 and Source so all the pros were forced to make the switch.
>>321036813
but the quake player will always tear the CS player's asshole wide open in pretty much any game other than CS or its clones.
>>321036960
Point still stands. Arena shooters and CS depend on more than just pinpoint, completely lag dependent SHOOTAN bullshit, and it shows.
Besides, arena shooters seldom end in 9-10. Go watch any pro match, it's more common to see 10-2 than 8-10.
CS's pro matches are usually one sided with a very particular team, too, but otherwise are even.
>>321037407
What other fps' are there that came out in at least 10 years that aren't just shitty unity quake clones would they play?
>>321037276
Skins caused a spike, but the big boost was Dreamhack 2013 with the special cases. I guess thousands saw that they could get a $20 drop for a $3.75 game. God bless that tournament, I got a dozen crates to drop.
