What was the problem everyone had with little lamplight?
I know that there were many flaws in Fallout 3,but what was so bad about Little Lamplight?
>>320972404
I just played this game for the first time. It is too damn hard to find anyone. I resorted to waiting hour to hour for the mayor to walk by. Pain in my behind
Nothing about it makes sense
>>320972404
Nothing. It's a video game. Anything goes and makes sense if you use your imagination.
They just needed ammo for their autistic 3 vs NV debate which was just a repainted Obsidian vs Bethesda debate fueled by fanboys.
>>320972872
Like what?
>>320972404
Little Lamplight is the grand example of "le so randum what-ifs?"
it's a town run by toddlers and adults have to be send away to keep the "bloodline" clean.
this is a concept that can be come up with easily by literally everyone but hard to back it up with real-world facts, i.e. "how does LL stays populated" "how did the kids survive when super mutants live right next to them". etc
Bethdrones will say something along the lines of "UR AUTISTIC ITS A VIDEO GAME" but there's sometime it's just so ridiculous to the point that it's just straight up unbelievable.
>>320972404
I didn't mind it but it made no fucking sense.
You can't kill anyone in that town
>>320973024
Nah, fans of Fallout, the Bethesda game series, will point out you're a nigger for not applying the same level of critical approach to the older games as well.
>>320972953
The entire concept is ridiculous. They wouldn't be able to survive on their own in a cave, they don't have much of a logical reason to kick adults out, they would've been killed/enslaved already (theres actually a camp of slavers that live 2 minutes away, but they haven't attacked for some reason).
Maybe the make the older kids breed before kicking them out
>>320973024
>how does LL stays populated?
The kids from Bigtown get sent to LL.
Also,they had a huge barricade to stop Super Mutants from getting to them.
>>320973270
>the old games are just as bad :^)
Not really helping Fallout 3's case
>>320973437
Super Mutants can rip the doors off of a vault.
A shitty little barricade won't stop them.
>>320973390
They have a big barricade at the front plus lots of guns. They are pretty well hidden aswell so maybe the Slavers don't even know there is anyone there.
As for surviving on their own,they had cave fungus growing that they used as food.
And as for kicking the adults out,there are a load of holotapes explaining it around LL. And that mentality of adults=bad stuck with them for the rest of their years because it was drilled into their minds.
>>320973270
most of the "wacky" stuffs can be explained to an extent, an explanation, no matter how half-assed will be provided so it isn't completely retarded and existed as a pure "what-if".
Little Lamplight literally have not been explained.
>>320973437
>Also,they had a huge barricade to stop Super Mutants from getting to them.
I do remember passing through something to get to the super mutants but I don't think it's "huge".
at any rate, anything erected by kids wouldn't be durable and certainly won't last seconds against a fucking supermutant.
>why didn't the supermutant just attack before the barricade is built?
had the game taken place shortly after the war like it was originally supposed to it would have made sense. they were supposed to be a band of scouts that got trapped inside the cave. There's sveral bits where you can tell the game was abruptly shoved 200 years into the future and filled with references to the older games mere;y to say "oh look it's X"
>>320973437
>they had a huge barricade to stop Super Mutants from getting to them.
Super mutants can break into vaults. They carry extremely heavy weaponry. How would a barricade stop them?
>>320973437
>Also,they had a huge barricade to stop Super Mutants from getting to them.
That "huge barricade" was just some planks of wood and metal plates. I'm pretty sure Super Mutants could just climb over it.
And if it really was so effective, how come they couldn't stop Enclave, who are just regular humans?
>>320973706
Super Mutant children wouldn't work. that's why they wait for them to grow up and leave for bigtown before capturing them and turning them into one.
>>320973024
>"how did the kids survive when super mutants live right next to them"
The caves between Vault 87 and Little Lamplight are full of ruins of similiar structures found in Lamplight and littered with the skeletons of kids, it's heavily implied that LL got pushed back right up to that easily defendable gate
>"how does LL stays populated"
I assume you can view LL like an orphanage
>>320973698
>And as for kicking the adults out,there are a load of holotapes explaining it around LL.
>loads
the wiki linked 3 tapes and only one of them said fuck the adults
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Lamplight
>>320972404
The fact that it made absolutely no fucking sense
>>320972617
What are quest markers
>>320973698
>a couple of kids with rifles can fend of dozens of raiders armed with LMGs, grenade launchers and miniguns
>an entire society of people can survive by eating mushrooms they found growing on a wall, with no serious health problems
>in 200 years, no one thought that kicking out competent adults might not be such a great idea/there was no rebellion from 16+ year olds
no
>Slavers don't even know there is anyone there
are you being serious
>>320973941
Super mutants do not convert humans they capture into more super mutants because anyone they kidnap would die instantly to the 3,600 rads/second at the entrance to Vault 87.
Try again.
>>320974004
How many do you want senpai, 1 is enough they all preach about how bad adults are anyway, you can even find them in Big town
>>320973437
>The kids from Bigtown get sent to LL
Why
How
For what FUCKING PURPOSE
>Also,they had a huge barricade to stop Super Mutants from getting to them.
SUPER MUTANTS THAT CAN RIP VAULT DOORS OFF?
FOR FUCK'S SAKE HOW ARE ANY OF THE DESCENDANTS OF LL STILL ALIVE HOW ARE THEIR ANY PEOPLE LEFT TO POPULATE IT WHY HAS NOBODY JUST SAID FUCK YOU AND STOPPED THE CHILD IDIOCY
IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE TODD
>>320973024
You just need to use your imagination. Considering the harsh conditions of living in the DC Wasteland it is no surprise there would be a never ending supply of abandoned kids that their parents couldn't take care of or worse. It's a no abortion world after all. LL patrols could be searching and picking them up. Super mutants were once human so they could have some lingering instincts like the one to not hurt children.
A better question is how did a group of shitty teens who grew up in a cave know to build houses? Do you think structural engineering and house planing is that simple?
>>320973723
That reminds me: Wasnt there a similar situation in one of the New Vegas DLCs told entirely through holotapes?
Dont remember if it was part of the suvivalist story or a completely different one, but looking back it was done much better and I actually gave a shit about the kids while reading the tapes, cant say the same about LL.
>>320974164
Holy shit I just realized that. How are the super mutants dragging people back to Vault 87 if the only entrance available has that much radiation?
>>320974164
that's another Bethesda fuckup, they have to have subjects somehow. Super mutants are sterile so how do more keep getting made?
>>320974061
You're saying that shit as if you believe Bethesda cares about things making sense in their games.
>>320974302
>Considering the harsh conditions of living in the DC Wasteland it is no surprise there would be a never ending supply of abandoned kids that their parents couldn't take care of or worse.
Yeah well, the events leading to fallout 3 is like 200 years from the bombs dropped.
I would fully understand Little Lamplight if it's like 5-10 years after the bombs but 200 years without any issues?
I think it's Bethesda's "2-300 years after the bombs and everywhere is still littered with trash and rubble" thing again.
>>320974263
>1 thriwaway line about the adults is enough to convince me that this system has been in place and worked for 200+ years
Okay you're either 5 or you're retarded.
Do you just accept what people say with no thought?
What do you think of him all grown up?
>but what was so bad about a town with nothing but children
>>320974502
Just trying to explain to that guy/op why it makes no sense
>>320974263
You said "loads" family, you can't just threw out "evidences" like that kid and then expect not to back them up, this is /vidya/ -serious video game discussions- not the local school playground.
>>320974302
Literally everything in your post is bad fanfiction the game outright contradicts. You're an idiot.
Also the houses in Big Town were pre-War you fucking Mongoloid
>>320974391
Yeah Randall Clark found some Ghoulified kids and they all died I'm pretty sure
>>320974627
Best companion in the game excluding Danse.
>>320974627
At first I thought he turned into a prick. Then I finished his companion quest. Changed my mind, MacCready is ok in my book now.
>>320974627
Is he still essential?
>>320974627
Kill on sight. No child invulnerability to save his ass this time around.
>>320974863
You're just saying that because of his bugged perk
That feel when I modded my NV into oblivion but the sexout mods refuse to work for some reason
God damn it I just wanted to masturbate to video games is that too much to ask for
>>320972404
they wouldn't be able to get new members without adults
>>320974391
There was this part where some guy was trapped in a flooded, rad-filled vault and you learnt about it from the tapes he dropped as you were going into that vault to retrieve something from it, in the end you have to make a decision that will finally release him or kill him.
think that vault was close to Novac but I am not sure.
>>320974897
No, but now he's in Fallout 4 so he's invulnerable anyways
>>320974741
>this is /vidya/ -serious video game discussions
>>320974542
Well in any case it's a lawless world so I would assume rape would be rampant. I can't imagine Raiders taking care of their kids either and I'm sure they had tons of sex all the time since they're degenerate bandits.
But that's using your dark imagination.
>>320974627
>Beth brings back fucking Macready
>Doesn't bring back Harkness as the new head of the Railroad to fuck up the Institute
Reminder that Institute is canonically evil according to FO3 moral system.
>>320974954
Try double-checking everything, sexout can be tricky with other mods, it took me 2 tries to get it working without conflicts
>>320974392
Pretty sure Super Mutants are immune to radiation
>>320974938
Nah, I mean out of all the ways a kid can grow up in the wasteland, he came out alright. dead wife and all. He's like the discount Boone, just 1/10 as cool.
>>320975242
did they ever explain why the institute is kidnapping people and replacing them with synths.
>>320973723
>had the game taken place shortly after the war like it was originally supposed to
You know, this is something that bothered me about Fallout 3 and 4 (and possibly NV as well), that stuff looks like it is untouched for 200+ years. Like, go into a subway station, and there will be pre-war food on the table of the kiosk.
Never mind that it apparently didn't expire in that time, the bigger issue is why the raiders who are now using the station as a base haven't grabbed anything useful already. Or anyone in the past 200 years. I mean, there are "scavenger" NPCs that roam about, but they don't seem to be doing any scavenging at all.
The only one who finds useful stuff in the open is apparently the player, because everywhere he or she goes, there's leftover stuff from 200 years ago. You'd think everything had been cleaned out in all that time.
This bothered me a lot honestly. Makes it feel like just a couple of years have passed at maximum, not fucking 200.
>>320975140
>But that's using your dark imagination.
that's the whole point.
It would be much better for them to at least offer a half-assed explanation then giving none at all.
it's like Bethesda don't actually care about the writing quality of their games.
>people that try to bring up realism as an argument for a video game
Can never take these faggots seriously.
>>320972907
>Anything goes and makes sense if you use your imagination.
I wish I could hate you to death.
>>320975329
The mutants are, but the humans they kidnap aren't.
>>320974627
I didn't know he was in 4. For what purpose? Who liked Macready?
>>320975329
That isn't the problem. The people they kidnap aren't radiation immune.
And FEV doesn't work on dead things.
Then again, Beth is trying their fucking hardest to introduce humans that are immune to radiation. See Col. Autumn and Children of the Atom.
>What was the problem everyone had with little lamplight?
Invincible NPCs.
>>320975329
If they are looking to convert humans they have to make sure them not being dead before dropping them into the vat.
>>320974780
>Also the houses in Big Town were pre-War you fucking Mongoloid
They don't look pre-war at least they don't make much sense in the place they are on the map. Not to mention I think it is said in game they build the town for themselves.
>the game outright contradicts.
What does it contradict? It is already confirmed LL sent patrols of kids to scour the wastes. Why does it have to be just for food? It's not my fault the people living in the Wastes don't talk about it as being as bad as it actually is considering common logic.
Calling me names won't make you be any more right, fagglord.
>super mutants can rip vault doors off
Where is this meme coming from?
>>320975492
>what is suspense of belief
shoo shoo salty bethdrone
>>320975351
It's because Bethesda are shit writers.
New Vegas actually feels like it takes place in some semblance of a society living in the ruins of an older one.
>>320975039
Sounds like Vault 34.
>>320975318
I've done it all, checked the files, uninstalled them, installed them again, tried using FOMM to install it exclusively and not the nexus mod manager, tried using the nexus mod manager exclusively, tried using both, tried uninstalling everything and installing only using FOMM or NMM, nothing fucking works.
And what pisses me off the most is that when I get ingame it says that the sexout mods are active and working but I can't fucking use it.
I don't know what I should do but I know I'm blueballing myself till I can get it to work and then wank to some sexy polygons.
>>320972404
>MacCready is in Fallout 4
>Can't even shoot the fucker because he's essential in that one as well
>>320974061
great argument fag
>>320975351
Seriously I just think people have a hard him grasping how long 200 years is. Look at the difference between 1800 and 2000. Look at the progress we made and everything that was invented. Now maybe nothing has progressed because of the fallout and lost knowledge but do they seriously expect me to believe all of these places have been left unscavenged for TWO-HUNDRED years?
>>320975494
It's not my fault you have a hard time thinking and a low suspension of disbelief threshold. I bet you don't even watch anime because "it's just not real man."
>>320975492
>videogames arent allowed to make sense!!!
Fuck off
>>320975740
LL doesn't habe contact with any towns except *maybe* BigTown and the slavers at Paradise Falls. They aren't fucking strolling up to Megaton and Rivet City once a month to get abortion babies you stupid fuck.
>>320973270
Like what? Nothing really iffy comes to mind from either game.
>>320974627
Incidentally, covenant was the only settlement where I didn't kill all the settlers to access the workshop. Good work Bethesda.
>>320975932
I know, thanks
>>320975942
Depends on how many were killed and how long it took people to venture out into the wastes in significant numbers
>>320975350
For experimentation and manipulation, primarily
They assume the identity of a farmstead's patriarch so that they can perform above-ground plant and soil experiments and they assume the identity of MacDonough in order to manipulate the politics of the Commonwealth
>>320975980
I've watched anime, hell I've watched hentai with more thought put into the premise than FO3
>>320975741
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfyqlMBeQFU
>>320975980
>I bet you don't even watch anime because "it's just not real man."
You probably don't realize this, but you are ridiculously funny
>>320976116
People were already settling the California wastes within 50 years of the bombs dropping, and probably much less than that
Yes there's the "DC was nuked more" meme but FO3 and 4 make that blatantly untrue
>>320975773
doesn't looks like it at a glance but thanks for the (You) friend-a-mine
>>320974052
And he wouldn't be there. You had to wait for him to come by
>>320973024
>how does LL stays populated?
Puberty happens way before someone turns sixteen anon.
>>320975350
Nope, the institute kinda just does random evil shit for no reason. Their REAL objective is to just isolate themselves and be self-sufficient as well as conduct SCIENCE. They sometimes send synths out to scavenge for them, but otherwise the synths are just there as a sort of slave labor. There are quests where they've randomly replaced people with synths so they can conduct scientific experiments on the surface, but there's no explanation why they couldn't just cooperate with the people directly, or make their very own synth-run farm instead of abducting (and apparently killing and replacing) random people.
Kind of a let-down honestly. The bad stuff they do is never once brought up if you join them, aside from the weird side-missions, but those don't ever bring up the moral considerations. It's like if Bethesda went:
"okay, so you support the institute now because of your son and because they have awesome technology. But that also means that you directly support murdering and replacing people at random, because you can't both have your cake AND eat it. Especially when you're the boss of the institute and should be able to change just such things. That's just not how things work."
>>320976459
How do they deliver kids in a cave with no medical equipment/knowledge?
>>320975631
Well in real life radiation doesn't really have any effect on you until your current cells start dying off and new ones won't be there to replace them.
There was a firefighter who got a lethal dose of radiation in Chernobyl and died in agony only a couple of days later.
That's how radiation worked in F1/2 as well, theoretically you could take in as many rads as you wanted but you wouldn't die until a few days later.
I'm guessing F3/4 wanted radiation to affect the PC in a more gamey way, but the science would still apply in terms of the lore.
Either that or Bethesda writers are a bunch of hacks.
>>320975552
They brought back Maxson too, I'm pretty sure it's not about people liking them as much as just doing referential cameos
>>320976545
>They make robots for the sole purpose of slave labor
>Give them simulated feelings and the ability to flee and rebel
FOR
WHAT
FUCKING
PURPOSE
>>320976459
>15 year olds giving birth with no medical shit
>>320976670
>Well in real life
1,000 rads kills you immediately in Fallout, even since Fallout 1
The Vault has a dosage of 3,600/second
FEV doesn't work on dead things
What does the Institute do with the people they kidnap for synth replacement?
Maybe that explains where all the fucking super mutants came from.
Institute is literally The Master with a shiny plastic coating. Nuke every one of the evil fucks every time.
MOBIUS WAS RIGHT
>>320976670
Your dad drops dead within seconds of radiating the room
>>320976019
Why are you so mad, you brainless dolt? Do you think they go to towns and ask for unwanted children like trick-or-treaters? They just explore for resources in the wastes in which numerous people always wander. Why would it be so strange to come across a random abandoned kid from time to time. LL isn't bumbling with life. One kid a year would be enough. The waste isn't that barren and people don't stay bolted to their shacks.
>>320975740
>LL sent patrols of kids to scour the wastes
That's even worse. How the fuck do they survive, when even adults with proper equipment and training struggle? Is the explanation that they've achieved CHIM and therefore have access to the console, hence why they're flagged as essential and invincible? Nothing makes sense.
>>320974289
>SUPER MUTANTS THAT CAN RIP VAULT DOORS OFF?
There are plenty of settlements all across the Capital Wasteland that don't have any barricades at all, so why haven't Super Mutants (or Deathclaws, or Slavers, or literally anything else) killed all of them as well? Little Lamplight is actually one of the more competently protected towns.
Their whole dynamic (kicking out adults) doesn't make a lot of sense, but they're fucking children. Of course some of their ideologies are malformed, they kick out anyone who's brain has developed far enough to start questioning dogma.
LL is silly but it's not half as unbelievable as most people make it out to be.
>>320976896
They FEV random animals but there's no evidence the Mutants come from The Institute, plus they act and look very much like the DC breed. I'd assume Institute Mutants would be more intelligent or at least DIFFERENT
Which could have actually been interesting
>>320976798
>How did civilization reach the point we are at now?
We've not always had medicine anon
>>320976826
Really? I remember having 24000 rads or something in F2 at one point due to a bug and I survived for 4 days.
>older kids NEVER bothered to take the town for themselves
>>320976972
Kids are invulnerable in fallout 3, remember? Even a small group of children would be unstoppable, if it weren't for the fact that they have to grow up eventually.
did the Enclave go through the super rad vault door by taking their bullshit anti-radiation prevent-death medicine? I guess they must have if the alternative is going through Lamplight
>>320976952
You're making up bullshit that makes even less basic common than LL does by itself
Maybe you should put in an application at Bethesda
>>320976952
>They just explore for resources in the wastes in which numerous people always wander.
They don't though
They never leave Lamplight until they turn 16
>>320976239
So are you retards. I have no idea why you get so triggered. You want everything to make perfect sense to the point you don't even have to think or second guess.
Nothing more than retards that never read a book or thought outside the box.
>>320975942
Yeah, not sure why they moved ahead in time so much. Fallout 1 is set around 80 years after the war, and even that's a bit of a stretch, but 200? That's nuts. There's no reason why they couldn't just have set Fallout 3 even BEFORE Fallout 1 events, it's not like they're even connected story-wise.
>>320976952
>Why would it be so strange to come across a random abandoned kid from time to time
In the wastelands? Geckos, yao guai, deathclaws, wild dogs, ect. If a dingo can steal a baby from a tent in Australia I shudder to think what mutant animals could do.
>>320976545
>But that also means that you directly support murdering and replacing people at random
That is what the Institute does. Why would you join the Institute if you weren't down with the bodysnatching? This is like complaining that you can't compel the Brotherhood to take in synths or ghouls.
>>320977237
>triggered
Nope. Sounds like you are though
>>320976670
>Returning from the hole
>after a few days travel my character stops on the map
>oh it's a random encounter. nice.
>Stopped because my character is violently ill and hair starts falling out
Fallout 1 was the shit.
>>320977053
>Little Lamplight is actually one of the more competently protected towns.
Yes moron a wooden barricade made by literal children is a better defense than the Megaton walls, or Rivet City bridge, etc.
You're forgetting that LL is precisely 2.5 feet from Super Mutant routes
>>320977095
I'd like to repeat the part where these are children.
>>320977334
Why are the Brotherhood so racist? Isn't their goal to preserve technology? Why the sanctity of man and shit? Ghouls are people too.
>>320976972
>That's even worse. How the fuck do they survive, when even adults with proper equipment and training struggle?
I think it is implied they have 100% in the sneak skill since they are small, plus the ninja perk because they are young and nimble.
>>320976798
they scrounge for medical supplies in the waste. Hell you fucking trip over med kits full of stimpacks in the first 2-3 hrs.
>>320977258
Is it so wrong to want an internally consistent world that doesn't have to rely on hand waving to work?
>>320977095
Yeah but we always had adults.
>>320973024
>how did the kids survive when super mutants live right next to them
can't kill kids innit
>>320976757
Could be an AI thing, where they have an easy way to simulate a mind that can then be shaped easily, but is prone to "acting out", instead of programming everything directly, which would be too time-consuming and inefficient. That being said, it still doesn't make much sense that even after the synth project is obviously a fiasco, they still just continue, business as usual. In fact, the whole "terminator-synth" project is only there to deal with the rebel synths.
I also don't really understand how they breed down there. There are perhaps 20 scientists in total, how do they avoid inbreeding? Do they just SCIENCE it away, like magic?
How do the Vault 87 supermutants make more of themselves with no intelligent leadership? It took The Master years to perfect the dipping process
What experimental conditions were Vault-Tec trying to test by locking up a bunch of people with a massive amount of extremely dangerous mutagenic virus? How to kill the fuck out of everything as fast as possible?
How and why does Vault-Tec even have any FEV at all? Did Bethesda honestly confuse West-Tek with Vault-Tec?
How does Col Autumn get inside Vault 87?
Why is a GECK now a matter manipulation device and why is such a powerful tool being wasted on making a water purifier for water that shouldn't even be radioactive in the first place?
How does using an unstable and extremely dangerous GECK matter manipulation device that can easily explode and destroy everything around it make for a water purification system? Water filtration is infinitely easier than transmuting atoms.
How does Dad even know what a GECK is and plan a machine to use a component he has never seen or used before? He may as well have designed the water purifier to use unobtainium.
Why does your father design a purification machine that is capable of dumping all its radioactive filtrate into the control room as a "trap"? Was Dad a psychopath? How is the radiation trap even possible when the purifier is not even complete at that point and not active?
Where did the Jet in FO3 come from? There is no manufacturing capability nor any semblance of Brahmin ranching, especially considering that D.C. is supposedly a lifeless wasteland with zero resources, food, or water for no real reason.
What in the fuck is up with the Talon Company? Who in the fuck has enough resources and wealth in the D.C. hellhole waterless struggling wasteland to afford a clone army with unlimited resources? What is their purpose? How do they even work on a logistics basis?
Why does the East Coast use caps as currency? What are caps backed with?
>>320977436
Suffer not the Abomination and all that.
>>320977258
>maybe they put the humans in hazmat suits before bringing them to the vault?
Radiation suits don't do shit to that kind of radiation in Fallout.
>>320977258
They will do everything in their power to hate on 3 no matter what or in the face of any explanation. Then pretend that NV isn't just as bad.
They are just mad Bethesda has the rights. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>320975351
Well, I think it's fair to say that prior to the bombs falling, every single house in America would have been very well stocked with canned goods. With more than 300 million people in America today (and the bombs falling further into the future still) that's easily billions of tins of canned food. Then the bombs dropped and killed most of the population (or turning them into Ghouls, who don't eat), leaving all that food behind.
And then the vast majority of the survivors were locked in Vaults for 20-30 more years still, at minimum (in general).
Would billions of tins of food last that long without being consumed? I don't know, but its certainly not beyond the realm of disbelief. I get the point about how easy the food is to find, but honestly that's just game balance.
>>320977678
In the game they literally just kidnapped people and dipped them in fev it until they got a super mutant, most people they did it to died, but sometimes they got lucky
>>320977678
You forgot
>Why did they build the water purifier in such a way that any purified water would immediately be dumped into the ocean
>>320977678
>Where did the Jet in FO3 come from?
Well after Fallout 4 it was obviously all pre-war supplies. Bravo Bethesda.
>>320977280
>Geckos
>Fallout 3
Get a load of this guy.
>>320977678
>Why is a GECK now a matter manipulation device and why is such a powerful tool being wasted on making a water purifier for water that shouldn't even be radioactive in the first place?
And your father's entire life's work has been to develop a water purification device.
Something that already exists, and the GECK can do, and THEN some.
Fuck Liam Neeson's stupid ass.
>>320973972
>this gets completely ignored
ffstbqh
>>320977191
That's sorta what I was getting at with the CHIM comment, anon.
>>320977334
>That is what the Institute does.
Well yes, that's my point. They don't have any stated REASON to do so, but shucks, there's gotta be some sort of reason to hate them, so Beth just made them do random evil shit like that to make it all fit into the narrative.
After you join them, you can't go "I like what you're doing with technology, but please stop killing people for no reason, that's just dumb". Especially after you get to be the director, he should have some influence on institute policy after all.
>>320977963
They wandered over from California with the Super Mutants. You just cant' see them because they're hiding.
>>320977512
there was an adult who was never a baby? checkmate.
>>320977053
What about that settlement a little away from lamplight where everyone was killed by super mutants?
The only places where people can live free from fear are those heavly defended areas, almost all shit shanty towns in the game got raped by super mutants one time or another.
And all you need is one kid who was expelled from LL telling some raiders about LL weak points for everyone in LL to be made in sex slaves.
You are basically telling capable work force to fuck off because "muh mungus", only the ghoul kid in the fridge can top this quality shitty writing.
>>320978162
what does that have to do with shit
>>320977397
>Yes moron a wooden barricade made by literal children is a better defense than the Megaton walls, or Rivet City bridge, etc
Are you fucking dense? I never said it was better defended than those specific towns you dribbling retard, I said it was better defended than "plenty of of settlements", ie. pretty much anywhere that isn't those two cherry-picked places you mentioned. And I'm absolutely right.
Learn to read you fucking spastic.
>>320977692
I want bethesda's faggy warhammer shit out of fallout
>>320977878
How come they've absolutely swarmed DC then if most of the people they dip into FEV die? BoS is also mowing them down by the hundreds and has been doing so for years. Where do new muties keep coming from?
>>320977978
>Wait son, you BLEW up Megaton? Innocent children included?
>Oh ok then
>>320978345
His point is that it's defenses are much more primitive than vaults, which super mutants can, and DO raid with little effort. And this is just going by information delivered within Fallout 3 itself.
>>320978469
Todd asshole I guess, I dunno
Guys, it made no sense.
Stop trying to find a proper explanation for it, there really isn't one.
>>320976696
They may as well have done something with Maxson, but MaCready served no true purpose.
>>320976896
why is mobius right
wasn't he working with the master
>>320978498
"My son, you have mowed down half a dozen well-trained Enclave stormtroopers in power armour to get to me.
I will now type in the code to kill myself instead of unlocking the door so you could at least try and gun down the Enclave guys before they kill me."
>>320978581
And MY point is that there are LOTS of settlements that have less defensive capabilities than Vaults, yet somehow only Little Lamplight's existence is derided for it.
I'm not saying that it necessarily makes sense that LL hasn't been destroyed by mutants, but I am saying that to criticise it specifically when it's actually one of the more well-defended settlements in the game is a bit thick.
>>320978091
Now that's good imagination. I like it. Goes in toe with enemies suddenly being subterranean in FO4.
See? You're learning. Soon you will be able to doublethink.
>>320977803
I get your point about a reduced population and hoarding beforehand, but that in no way makes up for it.
>Would billions of tins of food last that long without being consumed? I don't know
Are you being serious? There's fucking canned dog food that's over 200 years old, but apparently just fine to eat even though a standard expiration date is around a single year in the real world. Not to mention that "moldy food" that's basically just a plate with old bread and fucking FRUIT that's also apparently over 200 years old and fine for consumption, save for a few rads. It's RIDICULOUS.
>that's just game balance.
Right, because there would be NO other way to have food available, like through the local traders and farmers, right? Say, what did they do in Fallout 1? HMMMM!
It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Do you think scavengers would just take a couple of boxes and leave the rest? No, they would take EVERYTHING, move it top a secure location and then eat all of it in sequence over the next hundreds of years, not just take a single bag of cereal to keep the hunger at bay momentarily.
>>320978498
I don't even get why they intentionally introduce the game, allowing you to make the decisions of an evil sociopath right off the bat, but then force you down a morally upright story path regardless.
I mean it's not like blowing up megaton is some super obscure easter egg, as soon as you go into McLafferty's, you are prompted to blow up it up, or decide not to.
Was bethesda originally going to make an 'evil' story path, and never got around to it?
>>320978804
Nah I'm talking about Mobius from OWB.
You have to keep insane amoral scientists locked up in their labs to keep them from buttfucking the world for no reason with SCIENCE.
There is no Mobius character to keep the Institute in check, thus all the retarded shit they do.
>>320978307
it's the chicken and the egg scenario, moron.
>>320978345
What other settlements does Fallout 3 have, again?
I only remember the one built on top of the freeway bridge, but that was getting its shit kicked in by ghouls and raiders.
There is Eulogy Jone's little dig, but that place is armed out the asshole with guns
Tenpenny Tower I guess is defendable enough, given that it looks like its been reinforced and has a competent militia
There's the subway tunnel the not-vampires live in, that's a case of the super-mutants probably not knowing how to get there and it is a field of mines and bear traps
What was the name of the big trader town?
It is true that otherwise, the capital wasteland has been fucked. You have the pitt shitting out raiders for decades, the super mutants outnumbering normies at this stage, and the brotherhood would probably wipe out most of the population as collateral if they had a civil war.
Then the enclave shows up with muh new america
I can see why the BoS went full 40k
>>320979043
You'd be surprised at how few people actually bothered to pay attention to the dialogue/events of OWB and just thought Mobius was the exact supervillain he was pretending to be.
When I was trying to explain to a friend that Mobius was in the right, he assumed I was being some contrarian, like the fuckers who back Ceasar. I had to show him a video of all of Mobius' dialogue trees for him to understand what I was trying to say.
An unsung hero both in universe and out of universe.
>>320974627
I literally walked away when he started talking about his problems, I was playing a good character so I didn't bother finding out if he was essential or not.
>>320978868
>yet somehow only Little Lamplight's existence is derided for it.
would it be perhaps that LL is run by fucking kids?
>>320972404
MacCready's explanation in Fallout 4 is hilariously underwhelming
>>320977739
How is NV just as bad?
>>320977391
>go to the glow to fetch some tech for the brotherhood
> radiated to shit, not kmowing it was going to be so bad
>pop a shit load of rad away afterwards
>stops multiple times on the way back, puking, hair loss, nausia. At deaths door but barely survive.
>>320979621
Oh, I thought you were fucked if you got to the hair loss part.
>>320979397
>all these words, fuck reading
This is why we have the dialogue tree in fallout 4, fuck those assholes
Mobius is a hero
>>320979549
Seriously, nigger? Are you telling me you can't find things that don't make sense in New Vegas? From a mechanical standpoint and from story standpoint and from a believable post-apocalypse standpoint?
It's less of that than 3 but nothing more.
>>320977258
1) The super mutants in the capital wasteland are literally retarded and wouldn't think of that
2) The radiation is so powerful that even with full radiation resistance it kills you almost immediately if you get anywhere near the entrance at all, so a radiation suit makes fuck-all difference
>>320978993
>Are you being serious?
Yes, because when I said "last that long" I meant in the sense of not being scavenged or eaten, not in terms of expiration date.
>>320978993
>Right, because there would be NO other way to have food available, like through the local traders and farmers, right? Say, what did they do in Fallout 1? HMMMM!
Fallout 1 and 2 had different balance to F3/4 and even NV. They'd have to remove Stimpacks entirely to make food even remotely worthwhile for spending caps on.
A town run only by children, which already strains belief considering the hellish mutant hole they're living in;
But then it's also in a fucking cave, with little to nothing in term of farming, supplies and generally ensuing a susteinable lifestyle (they never actively use the Vault as far as I remember)
AND it's located in a zone who've been established to be in the middle of a highly supermutant populated area, guys who've been known for ripping metal locked doors out like it's nothing and hunting people to eat
AND they banish everyone of age 16+ away, just as they're about to reach the peak of physical and mental acuity and could greatly contribute to LL safety and well-being
AND YET somehow they still manage to have enough children to keep sending out, again without any form of adult knowledge or machines or connections or trading.
Just how.
>>320979052
Not him
But they're saying adults fucked to keep the species going, not 15 year olds.
Honestly a 15 year old giving birth in wasteland conditions would most likely die.
>>320972404
Knowing /v/, it's probably how the edgy people couldn't kill the children
>>320979327
It's been a while since I played F3, but wasn't that cannibal town (Andale or something?) entirely undefended? I remember plenty of little shanty spots like that.
>>320977365
I would be if I was playing DnD with brainless, unimaginative losers like you.
The worst thing about Little Lamplight is how it forces you to work with the children and do what they tell you to if you can't pass the speech check.
Apparently you can be evil enough to blow up a town for no reason or enslave some kids but shooting your way through LL is just too far.
>>320979940
>Are you telling me you can't find things that don't make sense in New Vegas?
at least NV doesn't have a hole in the plot like Little Lamplight that triggers 62 anons in this thread to dedicate 169 post discussing it.
Name 1 thing in NV that's almost as bad.
>>320980114
Bethesda writing
Oblivion has almost the same level of shit-writing but it wasn't as wacky and randum, the characters are mostly stupid but at least the world in it somewhat make sense.
>>320979327
>I can see why the BoS went full 40k
Wait weren't they just generic good guys? What did they do?
>>320980148
It's even worse if you consider that any of them who already gave birth has likely already been banished, meaning that every single one of them has to give birth without anyone having any knowledge of how to do it.
And how about the children? Are the 16+ years old mothers perfectly fine to be sent out to die leaving their children behind?
How come none of the 16+ years old boys ever thought of staging a coup and taking control from the bratty 9years old kids in charge?
>>320972404
You can't kill the kids.
You CAN turn them into slaves though.
>>320977739
>NV's just as bad!
>didn't list any examples
checkmate bethcunts
>>320979397
> he assumed I was being some contrarian, like the fuckers who back Ceasar.
Found the profligate.
>>320980512
Was FO3 your only Fallout game?
>>320980512
>BoS
>weren't they
>generic good guys
Here's a thought: Maybe given how few ADULTS survive the Super Mutant's hatchet-job FEV dipping process, they realize that trying the process on children is pointless?
Or maybe they don't think children would make for good Super Mutants anyway, given their small size? A child mutie could never hold a Super Sledge or a Minigun. Would be a waste of effort even if they did somehow survive the transformation process.
>>320977678
>How do the Vault 87 supermutants make more of themselves with no intelligent leadership? It took The Master years to perfect the dipping process
They literally just threw them in the pits until they got one
>What experimental conditions were Vault-Tec trying to test by locking up a bunch of people with a massive amount of extremely dangerous mutagenic virus? How to kill the fuck out of everything as fast as possible?
They are canonically cartoonishly evil scientists
>How and why does Vault-Tec even have any FEV at all? Did Bethesda honestly confuse West-Tek with Vault-Tec?
Secret government contracts given to both companies (but Beth probably is just retarded)
>How does Col Autumn get inside Vault 87?
Enclave has a super anti rad bullshit drug
>Why is a GECK now a matter manipulation device and why is such a powerful tool being wasted on making a water purifier for water that shouldn't even be radioactive in the first place?
>How does using an unstable and extremely dangerous GECK matter manipulation device that can easily explode and destroy everything around it make for a water purification system? Water filtration is infinitely easier than transmuting atoms.
Valid, the whole water purifier thing is retarded
>How does Dad even know what a GECK is and plan a machine to use a component he has never seen or used before?
He used to live outside the vault and worked with top scientists who had records and shit
>Why does your father design a purification machine that is capable of dumping all its radioactive filtrate into the control room as a "trap"? Science bullshit
>Where did the Jet in FO3 come from?
Bethesda wanted jet
>What in the fuck is up with the Talon Company?
Mercenaries gonna mercenary, probably have an out of state base or something
>Why does the East Coast use caps as currency? What are caps backed with?
The game actually addresses this as "Well we all just sort of agreed to it" they still technically use the barter system also
>>320975980
>all fiction should have the same tone
Including silly stuff like Little Lamplight is fine in things that aren't intended to be too serious but although Fallout is somewhat comedic and isn't the most realistic setting out there, it's still expected to make sense on some level.
>>320980241
How about everything that New Vegas reuses from 3? Everyone complains about the old food thing but that's in NV too. Not to mention those stupid cartoon rockets those ghouls used to "go to space"? There were always funny, imaginative, comical things in Fallout. It wasn't 100% serious, makes sense, gritty stalker type shit. If you want to make stuff up to complain about you can but I don't want autistic NV fanboys to jump me like they jump to hate on 3 whenever they can. The children fending for themselves is a trope in post apocalypse fiction, how well it get's implemented is up to the creator.
>>320980725
You are giving too much credit to the super mutant thought process.
>>320977678
>What in the fuck is up with the Talon Company?
They're the most hilariously evil faction in the entire series.
Just look at this fucking flag. It looks like a doodle you'd find on the notebook of a kid voted to be most likely to shoot up the school.
>>320980725
They eat people for food in FO3.
Are you telling me that a cave filled with delicious teen kids wouldn't be yummy as fuck for a bulky brute with big green penis?
>>320977662
>20 scientists in total
The Institute was incredibly underwhelming after the first moments. Sure at first it looks all "WOAH HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THIS", but after exploring the place for like 10 minutes you realize it's just nothing but a glorified Vault.
I thought The Institute would be huge, not a god damn underground silo with 4 assholes in it.
>>320972404
Nothing? It took me a whole two seconds to get to the next area.
>>320980908
Why? Super Mutants aren't necessarily stupid, even though Bethesda didn't do a good job of highlighting that in FO3. The fact they run an FEV dipping process at all shows that they do have intelligence, at least.
>>320972404
The problem isn't so much about how little sense it makes, but the compounded effect of how stupid it is and how little of it you can ignore.
First, the reason you have to go there is pretty stupid - wasting a GECK to repair a machine that is less useful than the GECK itself.
Then your ONLY path is blocked by this nonsensical town inhabited by presumptuous smug pricks, because your character can't kick down a flimsy wooden barrier.
THEN you have to do whatever they ask you, and as often happens in the game the only alternative is to do it while sulking. And why? Because you couldn't just smash through yet another flimsy barrier on your own - you needed two snotty brats to LIFT THE WALL WITH TWO CRANKS. And in order to do so, you have to wait for their slow asses to GET to the barrier too.
FINALLY, as icing on this insufferable cake, just as you're about to leave with the GECK you find out that your enemies managed to effortlessly avoid having to go through Little Lamplight and knock you out with a plot grenade you can't avoid in any way.
Fiction is for the most of part sleight of hand. If you don't have solid enough writing to properly explore a situation you shouldn't force the player to rub his face in it.
>>320980908
>who is Marcus
Fuck off, seriously.
>>320980241Sierra Madre's vault would have large threads about people getting pissed off over many thingsBarring that, everything about the Legion
>191 replies
>>320980969
Holy fuck I never actually paid attention to that, what the fuck we can have that but the guy kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach got censored?
>>320980901
>Everyone complains about the old food thing but that's in NV too
The settlements in NV all have their own food supply through either crops, livestock or trade routes.
>>320980901
>Not to mention those stupid cartoon rockets those ghouls used to "go to space"?
They all agreed to it and they have an engineer and although the glowing one and his breathen are clearly deluded, they are presumed to be intelligent enough to get a rocket going.
mind you, they didn't said anything about the rocket not blowing into a million pieces in the process.
now compare this to LL, there was literally NO EXPLANATION GIVEN on the above topics we have just discussed about it.
>>320981201
There were no intelligent super mutants with the gang of vault 87 and Marcus and the doctor from FO1 is like 1% of super mutants that actually kept their intellect after being transformed.
>>320980901
>Not to mention those stupid cartoon rockets those ghouls used to "go to space"?
They don't go to space.
>>320981227
why?
>A community of kids surviving on their own?!? Preposterous!
>A community of loony ghouls hellbent on launching into the stars? How inspired and quirky!
Stupid idea, doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
But the worse part is simply that the kids are extremely fucking irritating. The icing on the cake is that they can't die. You want to make an immersive open world, then give me a settlement of invincible children with annoying voices and awful dialogue?
>>320981452
Biggest bait thread since several months
>>320980235
I just installed the killable children mod, blasted two fatman inside the place and moved on.
Lamplight is too retarded for me to deal with it.
>>320980645
I'm talking about FO3 only.. like that guy was
>>320980696
In 3
>>320981523
Kids don't have any medical and scientific know-how, Ghouls do.
>>320972404
>What was the problem everyone had with little lamplight?
They're dumb mungos who can't enjoy fun.
>>320980969
Hahahahahahaha seriously Bethesda what the fuck
>>320981523
I accept that cults exist, and the whole time they're pretty clear about the "great journey" will take them to a higher plane of consciousness. It's a death cult.
>>320981201
If they have someone on par with Marcus in terms of intellect wouldn't they just demolish LL and killing/enslaving/imprisoning their residents rather then keeping them around instead of being stuck behind a wooden fence erected by literal kids?
>>320981523
suspense of belief require a degree of explanation, with the ghouls they did and LL they didn't. simply as that.
>>320981618
every FO3 thread is the biggest bait thread on /v/ at any given time, this shouldn't be new to you ledditor-kun.
>>320973024
>how does LL stays populated
For much of human history, women had their first child at 13-15. It was only widespread education that pushed this back, hell this trend can still be seen in places where children as a whole aren't educated.
>>320981795Except for the fact that it works and they come back wise and fix everything, sure.
>>320981331
There's also a shitload of canned food around.
>>320981523
>into the stars
another fallout 3 baby who can't read dialogues
>>320981826
>women had their first child at 13-15
everyone and their dog fucking know this, the point is a) they send those able to bear child away at that age and b) sub-14 year old kids trying to aid in giving birth without any sort of medical education would result in a high infant mortality rate.
tl;dr LL is a viable settlement for 5-10 years but shouldn't exist for 200 fucking years under this system.
>>320981331
Plus all the apparently edible food you can find 200 years later just like in 3. If Obsidian wanted to be as autistic about it as their fans are they would have removed them. They didn't and they had their gameplay reasons.
>>320981335
The problem I have with those rockets is that they are the most comical 50s comics type shit you can imagine. It's beyond any realism to expect that anyone would ever build a rocket like that let alone expect it to go to space. It's an absolute joke on their part because Fallout doesn't have to be realistic or always make sense. If it did they would have made it a Saturn V rocket or at least look like one.
>>320973678
Supermutants are using main entrance,because the fucking can(if you will try do it rads will kill you), while LL is cave,which happens to connect to vault 87.So muties probably don't even know about kids.
>>320972872
it's just a natural vault
>>320982010
>Have to give birth
>your only aid is a snotty 11years old who "saw it happen" before the girl involved got banished
Jesus Christ the Almighty.
>>320981221
Not everything about the legion, just that they're able to take on an army equipped with semi-autos while their rank-and-file use machetes.
>>320982052
The ghouls weren't trying to go to space.
>>320981826
>For much of human history, women had their first child at 13-15.
And many of them also died around that time, often for related reasons.
>>320981802
>supporting unironically retarded bait thread about fallout 3 when no FNV lore thread
>leldditor
>>320981417
Spoiler that shit
>>320973024
>>320973437
>>320973698
>>320973706
The kids aren't even the problem. New Vegas also had a tribe of kids, or their descendants at least. They just didn't make it fucking stupid by explaining they had some crazy old survivalist watching over them who gave them survival manuals and food caches. They also weren't "wacky kid rebels", they obviously escaped from a bording school or something.
>>320982074
It's not exactly hidden either. Are you telling me that none of the million raiders, supermutants and mutant monstrosities ever went to check "that one big promising cave" in 150 or so years?
All it takes is one attempt by either of them (barring the monsters) to spread word about LL and make it a target, a town run by fucking kids would be the wet-dream of any raider and slaver out there.
>>320982052
the MC knew they were going to die the moment he saw the rocket him/herself, he raise this fact to Jason (glowing one) and he assured that it's fine by them.
see, at least this matter is addressed, the MC knew they were going to most likely die and were just going in because the ghouls wanted him to help them.
>>320982126
This annoys me, why are melee weapons valid for anyone but power armor users or super mutants?
Like raiders/fiends/legion
>>320982170
Still kept a net growth of population, even with malaria and shit
LLL is one of the many things that makes no sense unless fallout 3 happened 20 years after the bombs droped, not 200. hell, LLL would only make sense if it was less then 5.
>>320981998
There is no reason to assume that the Great Beyond doesn't mean space, seeing how you are helping them repair rockets.
If it was a simple death cult as some people in this thread seem to imply, there would be no need for the grandiose launch.
>>320973698
You rescue kids from paradise falls
>>320980901
>Not to mention those stupid cartoon rockets those ghouls used to "go to space"?
It's funny because is I thought Come Fly With Me was the worst quest in the game specifically because of how much it reminded me of Bethesda Fallout, and no other quest in New Vegas elicits that feeling from me.
>weird ghoul cult that has no impact on the rest of the setting, who's beliefs are never explained beyond what's immediately relevant to the quest they give you.
>conflicts that don't make sense, why can't Harland check the stockroom for you to see if the stealth boys are there? How come Davison can get his nightkin to not attack you while they're leaving but not while they're sitting around in the Repconn basement? Why not ask Davison to check on the dead ghoul prisoner for you?
>The good ending isn't really even good since you're just sending this pack of psychotic murderers to go murder everyone somewhere else. The first thing they did upon showing up at Repconn was start killing people for no reason, guess you better hope that wherever you sent them to is now empty or those people are fucked.
>>320981892
Literally everyone but Jason dies and he becomes a feral you mongo
>>320982010
>trying to aid in giving birth without any sort of medical education would result in a high infant mortality rate.
protip: high infant mortality rate in the past was due to child birth being left to illiterate voodoo women who refused to study real science or medicine. Infant mortality was only high among the lower classes due to this. The upper echelons of society tended to do fine because they hired actual doctors. Meanwhile, infant mortality was also low among the wild/hills/noncivilized people because their women were physically fit and didnt rely on voodoo witch doctor retard women to interfer in a natural process. Turns out, how easy child birth is is directly related to how physically fit the woman is, and that the custom of not letting women do any work to protect them during child birth actually makes child birth harder because they lack the necesary muscles needed to manipulate their own vaginas to push a baby out.
of all the unbelievable bullshit in fallout, a group of children surviving and thriving on their own isnt one of them.
>>320982205
>people who have fun are retarded
>I haven't seen people enjoying themselves by slinging shit onto both sides on FO threads
>not a ledditor
>>320981221
Nothing wrong with the Legion at all.
>>320982213
It's from NV. NV has been out so long, and it's /v/ essential, so no, why would he ever spoil it?
>>320982154
Are you fucking missing the point? It's about the design of the rockets. It's unlogical, makes no sense in any universe with physics, and is proof that Fallout isn't always about realism and even fucking Obsidian knows it. They should. Fallout 1 and 2 have that too. What more do you want?
>>320982421
>of all the unbelievable bullshit in fallout, a group of children surviving and thriving on their own isnt one of them.
Them STAYING children is.
>>320982398
>The good ending isn't really even good
thank god you can't just kill every single nightkin so they can't go off murdering other people so the ending can actually be "good" amirite family
>>320982118
>trying to give birth while surrounded by 12 year olds all giving you bullshit advice because they've "totally had sex like a million times before" and they know what they're doing
>>320974780
They weren't ghoulified. They survived and their descendants became the Sorrows.
>>320982482
>Are you fucking missing the point? It's about the design of the rockets. It's unlogical, makes no sense in any universe with physics, and is proof that Fallout isn't always about realism and even fucking Obsidian knows it.
Oh here we go again. "It has fantastical technology, so we should throw out at all concept of human behaviour or how societies actually work."
>>320982368
The rockets don't go upright. They go diagonally, they just travel, not go to the moon.
Including in one ending the Bright Brotherhood gets back "from their pilgrimage" and helps Novac against the Legion.
Just by the way the rockets are launched and fly you can see that they don't mean "the space" at all. Unless you're retarded, that is.
>>320982447
>>320981417
This isn't said in the game at all
>>320982447
It's a joke, man.
>>320982554
What do you mean staying children? That LL exiles people as they come of a certain age?
I still don't see a problem there. As long as knowledge is passed down from generation to generation, the community can thrive.
About the ghouls going to space. Maybe I'm mistaken, but don't they come back to help Novac in the ending?
>>320982482
>It's unlogical
neither is a lot of things in the FO universe which is an excuse bethdrones like to give to a lot of beth-writings.
but the point is
>they are not trying to go to space in that rocket
>the ghouls just wanted to get to the rocket
>the MC has already try telling them that travelling on that rocket would probably result in death
>the ghouls wanted to do this anyways
>ok I will help
the ghouls wanted to die in their delusions because they got mistreated by normies, the MC helps, everybody is happy.
>>320974263
>theres tons of evidence senpai
>uhh no there's only one
>holy shit how much evidence do you want.
Reddit.com
>>320975350
Same reason why people believe fucking reptiles are sitting in high ranks. It is easy to control society(and enemies) and build it in your vision if you have fucking direct control to them,by switching them with synths..
Some of kidnapped were for experiments probably(because you don't really want to use your friends) and some great minds/scientists.
>>320982347
the world wasn't a cave completely devoid of any means of sustaining life nor all its inhabitants where under 16yo retards
