NERF CLOUD
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GIT GUD
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Git gud. I've beaten tons of Clouds in FG.
Also wrecking people as Cloud is fun.
NERF MIDGAR
>>320953956
No, he's toofun.
>>320954526
NERF BAYONETTA
>>320953956
Use toon link
>>320953956
Fuck off. We fonally got a nice, soeedy, and good swordsman and you are not going to ruin this for me. Go complain about Sheik or ZSS instead or something.
He's not even remotely OP. Literally git gud.
>>320954595
Unironically this. She looks fun as hell but she's already guaranteed to be the new ZSS. The demonstration of her showed how absurdly easy it is to take somebody from floor to blast ceiling from 0% and I don't like that one bit. Yeah, they were demonstration on an immobile CPU but even with player input, it still looks like there's very little you can do to escape that shit.
If something, Cloud needs a buff on his recovery, I hate being gimped because his shitty recovery doesn't snap.
>>320954996
Why does everyone keep saying this based only on some video? No one has actually gotten their hands on her. She looks strong in the trailer and breakdown by Sakurai, but Sakurai already stated some of her weaknesses and I'm sure she will have more.
You really can't call someone OP just by some videos when no one has been able to experiment with them.
>>320955108
Gotta save that Limit Break charge for recovery if you think you might get launched soon. Limit Break Climhazzard is much better recovery.
>>320954457
>I've beaten tons of Clouds in FG.
That has no bearing on this conversation.
>>320955152
Oh fuck off, she looks broken as shit. Literally going to kill the game on release.
>>320955320
Everyone said the same thing about Palutena with her up Smash. Look how that one turned out.
>>320955152
>combo fighter in a game with no other combo fighters
She's going to be top tier. landing lag won't make a difference if you juggle them into the launch zone.
>>320954735
Yeah but he has next to no drawbacks. He has so much range and speed and disjointed htiboxes to boot. Side B coming out at the speed of jabs and being extremely safe AND inescapable is bullshit. The worst part is, it puts you into a state that LOOKS like you can DI out of it or time an air dodge, jump, or other move but you can't. DI doesn't do shit either so you either get hit and eat shit or you dodge and have to wait for some other opening because the recovery on it is fast enough for him to throw out another move by the time you can move in for a punish.
>>320955560
Side B is escapable before the third slash brah.
>>320955546
>Not being able to combo with Ryu
baka desu senpai
I'm just about ready to throw in the towel.
GIVE ME SOME KILL MOVES P L E A S E HACKURAI I'M D Y I N G OVER HERE
>>320955560
His recovery is fucking garbage without a limit break, what are you on about? And if people are just going to save their limits for a recovery that means they won't be able to use any of their B attacks. Fucking git gud before you start complaining about how strong certain characters are.
>>320953956
If you have any problems against anyone, pick Sheik. There is no reason to play casually or competitively with any other character that isn't Sheik and her auto-combos that require all but 20 minutes of practice.
>>320955294
>implying OP isnt a For Glory shitter like all of you
Cloud is fine learn to adapt
>>320955986
Sheik isn't fun to play or play against.
It's a travesty the most boring character is the best in the game.
Don't know what everyone in here is bitching about
Shiek's not nearly as bad as pre-patch Diddy, who, in turn, wasn't nearly as bad as pre-patch Rosalina
>>320953956
>Terrible recovery that doesnt auto-snap to the ledge making him the easiest thing ever to gimp since Little Mac
>Blade beam is laggy as fuck and super easy to punish
>Has no grab game aside from down throw to cross slash at very low %
>Has extremely easy to read kill moves that only a retard would get hit by
Youre actually having trouble against this piece of shit? How fucking bad are you?
>Cloud throws an attack at me that manages to get me to the other side of the blast zone
>He decides not to try to follow up or anything, he just waits for me to come back to him by charging up his limit
>By the time I get back to him, his limit is already past half full if it started out empty
I doubt Cloud will be any good in competitive play, but you cannot deny that Cloud's campy style is annoying is fuck to deal with.
>>320953956
Does anyone also almost full their limit break, then stop, just to keep it on standby?
It decreases the chance I'll waste it on an easy recover and It only takes half a second to full it's remainder on request anyways, to shift the dynamic of the fight in a less predictable way.
>>320955872
nobody saves their Limits, they only try to hit you with Finishing Touch, or at least every single Cloud I saw online did that
>>320955652
extend his grab hitbox
make some of his aerials better (dair damage increase, uair faster startup, bair more damage, fair like 1% more damage) and a bit less end lag on side/down smashes
he's getting less good as all these other characters get buffs
>>320959691
they're bad
>>320959085
He's not supposed to be. Cloud has tools to handle everything but recovery.
It's like campy Mario, but good Mario players, from what I seen, were always in peoples ass aggressive.
>>320959691
Bad clouds do I guess.
>>320959691
almost every Cloud I play just spaz out their limit break the second they have them.
And frustratingly it ends up landing on me more than I think it should have. I'll get used to it.
What's with this "It fills up both when you hit opponents AND when you get hit" ridiculousness?
It bothers me with Little Mac too, it feels like it should be one or the other, not both. It also sucks that there's no way to knock the Limit Break out of him.
Wait what? The other day people here were calling him weak wtf changed
>>320959085
>>320959085
honestly im shocked his limit charges as fast as it does. its kind of unreal. i think thats the only real nerf he needs is to slow that shit down to little mac level. its enough that he can charge it manually. it doesnt need to charge that fast.
>>320955294
It absolutely does, because random fucks on /v have no right to weigh in on the actual competitive scene. Also most all top smash players have already agreed publicly that Cloud is middle tier and basically little Mac with a sword. Calm the FUCK down.
>>320955652
As a G&W main, I know your pain
All my kill moves are lucky 9s or buckets (which may not be usable against the whole cast)
>>320960278
People learned to play him.
Why? He's shitty as fuck, just like his game. If any cloud player is giving.you issues, you just suck dick
>>320953956
>tfw KO'd DDD at 63% with finishing touch
I love it but it does seem OP as fuck
wonder how early he can KO light characters like gayman watch
>>320959994
>>320959910
>implying that whacking your opponent a couple times and then running away til FT charges isn't a legitimate strategy
it's fucking broken, it's way stronger than KO punch and always kills above 50%.
FT is easy to shield but the problem is that Cloud can just roll back and forth and dodge until they find a single opening to let it off. At least with KO punch you have to be facing the person, Finishing Touch has a big area of effect
>>320955642
I was disappointed with Ryu. He can't fadc out of anything. He has as much combos as any normal smash character.
>Cloud gets a Rest with almost no penalty for missing.
>>320960707
40%
>Cloud player
>immediately run away and charges limit
>spend whole match chasing them around
He really shouldn't have that down B. It's less fun than chasing down Link, because Cloud's so fast and has little to no delay on all his moves, so if you're playing defensively (and you are, because it's Sm4sh) you're never in any immediate danger. Even projectile whores get stuffed by his neutral B.
He's just not very fun to fight against.
>>320960764
>mfw I literally cleared the screen in a free for all 4 way match with FT
>charged my limit bar halfway before anyone respawned
He's so broken, I love it.
>>320961104
Blade Beam without Limit is absolutely terrible.
>>320960658
>just like his game
Someone's mad lol
>>320955652
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hyhDSki4qo
literally TWO FUCKING DAYS AGO you dumb niggers were whining that he's low tier and his recovery is shit and it sucks and fuck sakurai
i hate you all you whiny shits
>>320961165
It's terrible if you rely on running to opposite end and spamming, yes.
>>320960986
jiggs you're in this game on the back of seniority and recycling kirby's resources and model rigging
not for being good or rewarding to play
10 years from now in smash 5 maybe theyll give you and other vets more attention
>>320960313
nah it already charges slow enough. If you don't want him charging it get on his ass and don't get smashed across the screen
>limitbreak fills up twice as fast
>instead of one limit break attack, each attack can be used once in limit break form
>special-side gets higher launching power
cloud fixed
>>320961165
>using for damage instead of just causing massive anal devastation
I just bunnyhop whenever I use it, so people have even more trouble getting out of the way.
>>320960764
Finishing touch can be shielded though, it's actually possible to hit him and cancel it before you're launched
>>320961165
But it creates a long-lasting wall that forces the opponent to either jump or block. It's not supposed to hit so much as it's supposed to zone people out and stop projectiles.
Think Poison's projectile in SF4
>>320961104
I hate this shit. Even when I win. It's the most awful matches I've played recently. At least I rush down as Cloud and only charge after killing or even they're too far off the stage.
>>320954996
She's got a lot of vulnerability on startup and end so she's not going to be oppressively OP.
Remember Metakinght in Brawl? He wasn't top tier forever because he could combo, he was top because he had so much safety on his moves, and in the direct they went out of their way to mention that Bayo has hot combo potential but very vulnerable if she whiffs. If they're not totally lying, this puts her around low mid to high mid. Think of something similar to Peach in melee: a combo monster but slow and very punishable on mistakes (without the float to survive)
>>320953956
Might as well ask now.
What's he saying when he talks? I don't speak Indonesian
>>320960962
Except for moves that cancel into each other seamlessly.
>Short hop nair into light dtilt to heavy to tatsu cancel
>Free 40%
>>320961363
I'd prefer if they swapped inputs for his standard B and side B.
Nerf this piece of shit instead.
>>320961338
I just realized Jiggs and Samus are the only ones of the original 12 who aren't at least mid tier in smash 4.
>>320961493
Limits are meant to be broken.
At least that's if the trailer's subtitles were accurate.
battlefield variants for For Glory when
it'd be such a blessing and make it all a little less campy and the heavies have some reprieve from projectiles
>>320961338
>Jiggs
>not rewarding
Sometimes I still dream of 64 and Melee.
>>320960707
Actually I tested it myself on battlefield, though maybe I need to test again.
He ko'd bowser (looking at him, if you face away, the number is higher) at the same time as jigglypuff at 66%
But if you jump, the percent lowers.
>>320961573
link is probably upper low-tier, but lower mid-tier wouldn't be unreasonable, yeah
i was gonna say "rework Samus" but Melee Samus is a work of art. Literally take a page from PM and give Samus a normal "roll" and make her morph ball animation her crawl
>>320953956
Why nerf? He's not even OP mate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXocMzIA8S4
Rather than bitching, post Cloud replays/webms.
>>320961625
Yeah, that I figured, but I meant his up taunt and victory quotes.
Cloud is pretty easy to understand if you compare him to Little Mac.
Cloud has:
>shittier frame data
>a shitty projectile
>a more effective air game
>a better grab (but no followups off throws)
>a KO punch mechanic that is far easier to use but generally less scary
>a recovery that goes a tiny bit farther but is even easier to intercept (barring when he uses the limit break version)
He's kinda like a mix of Little Mac, Captain Falcon and a sword user. Plus one shitty projectile.
>>320961687
i'd like for Jiggs to be not dogshit but not Melee-good either; i'd settle for something like 64 strength
i'm holding out for her and Zelda to get big attention in a future patch like Ike/Mewtwo/lot's of other characters
>>320961849
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Cloud_%28SSB4%29
>>320961959
...So he's a reskin of Link?
Does anybody else think his hurtboxes are wonky? Maybe it's because I put myself through suffering and stick to Wii Fit Trainer, but sometimes I'll throw out moves close enough to reach other fighters but completely miss them against Cloud.
It's bad enough that Cloud has very little delay to his moves so my side-tilts sometimes don't even get started, but often they just whiff. Same with aerials. I can't land anything like I normally do.
I wish there was a Stats graph for showing hit percentage as a fighter against individual other fighters. It's got to be bad against Cloud.
>>320961554
HAHAHAHA no way loser. Git Kicked.
>>320953956
Dodging is so slow in this game.
>guy attacks
>I dodge behind him
>he still has enough time to turn around and hit me
It's fucking trash. Plus the wii u controller doesn't even input correctly sometimes.
>input to do a smash attack
>I do a side a
How to nerf Cloud:
>Give him a little bit of a delay when charging before he can move again so that he can't just block on the first frame as if he was standing still
>Decrease by about 25 percent the amount of Limit meter he charges while pressing down B, but leave the meter he gets from damage and taking damage alone.
>Give him a bit more endlag on his Side B
There, less spammy but still great.
>>320954996
Vulnerable startup and the fact that the bulk of the cast has some sort of counter doesn't make having a character with actual combos all too deadly at all.
>>320962086
wat
>>320961554
hahahahaha you're so fucking bad
>>320953956
he's not even that good faggot
>dodge clouds attack
>it does three hits so it's undodgeable anyway
>spin behind him
>it does backwards damage too
>all his moves have reach and knock off potential
They know all the nerd kiddies like him so they made him special snowflake.
>>320962183
you just made him shit
honestly you guys just need to git gud. No reason to make another laggy shitty swordsman like Shulk
>>320962170
Git gud
>smash players call recovery frames lag
this is why you aren't taken seriously
>>320962053
>I'm out of your league
>not interested
These made me chuckle
>>320960587
>>320955652
I'm pretty sure Megaman fits in this as wellI just want him buffed in some way, geez
Cloud is bad already
You have to bait an approach, considering he has none. And that fancy auto cancelled up air is not going to reach shit
Git gud
>>320961848
That Capt. Falcon was garbage.
>>320962395
Either make Cloud as shitty as the rest or better the rest of the cast.
>That stupid "FF" logo
>not the meteor from the FF7 logo
Why are they so dum
unless they plan to release even more Final Fantasy characters in the next installation
>>320962920
he's, at best, bottom of the high tier. Probably upper mid tier. He will not win any major tournaments. Git gud
>>320962873
He was. I only saved the replay because of the bullshit Climhazzard meteor.I'm garbage too so I guess it works out.
>>320962727
He just needs a more efficient salad guard man
>>320963025
I agree
Leaf Shield needs to be less shitty and we get something nice
Where were you when Smash became pay 2 win? I told you guys this would happen.
>>320963330
I was watching the E3 direct.
>>320962678
I only say it because that's the only way I can communicate with my friends when discussing smash.
Also
>trying to discuss block stun with them
They thought I meant what happens after your shield breaks. I wish they'd play real fightan with me.
>>320962957
>>320962727
if MM had a little less startup lag and punishability id be happy
>>320953956
Wait, people really use Charizard? that character is fucking useless. So heavy and with weak and a shitty recovery.
>>320962957
too similar to the earthbound logo iirc
>>320964005
I think that's an official screenshot\
So no, no one uses him
>>320964005
I use Charizard. Yeah he sucks but I'd still wreck you with him
>Tfw no Meteor Rain
I wish if you used his neutral b in the air it was Meteor Rain instead of Blade Beam. That would have made Clouds moveset feel more complete.
Also I wish down air was Braver, I kind of pretend the second half of Climhazzard is Braver since the actual Climhazzard doesn't have a downwards slash but I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.
>mfw Cloud > Link
>>320962086
Link's recovery doesn't go very far but at least it snaps to the ledge
Link doesn't have a mechanic revolving around charging super moves
Link has multiple decent projectiles
Link has some light throw followups, but a tether grab is generally bad
so no, not really
>>320964239
But I have used zelda since Brawl. You can't beat what you can't touch
>>320962957
For the chance they ever plan on adding more Final Fantasy characters in the next Smash bros.
If they were to add someone like Black Mage it'd be weird for them to have the FF7 logo tied to them.
>>320964005
>>320964239
Anyone who still thinks Charizard sucks is either stupid or a really bad player who likes to tell himself his main is garbage to feel better when he loses. I could list so many amazing strengths of that character I couldn't even fit it all into one post. The only thing stopping Charizard from placing high at tournaments is the fact that nobody plays him and nobody gives a shit about him, but he's strong as fuck now. At least as good as Ike and if you've seen Ryo you know how good Ike can be.
>>320962727
>buff leaf shield
>faster recovery from up tilt
>MAKE HIM IMMUNE TO HIS OWN BOMB
>faster/shorter down smash
>>320962096
the word you're looking for is hitboxes. Hurtboxes are what parts of your character can get hit by enemy hitboxes. His hurtboxes are pretty cool actually, you can avoid some moves by crouching a'la Kirby/Jiggs because his push-up pose goes so low. But yes, his moves don't have a lot of range and some hitboxes are still a little wonky despite loads of fixes over the various patches (front jab especially used to be useless against Pikachu & co.). I don't think Cloud is in any way special in that regard tho
>>320964801
lol that's what you think
charizard is just not good. you have to accept that fac, m8. He's only on the game because he's the most popular pokemon out there (is the only one besides mewtwo and pikachu that the normal people and genwhuuners recognize)
>>320964801
>The only thing stopping Charizard from placing high at tournaments is the fact that nobody plays him and nobody gives a shit about him
because he's a slow, clunky character with unreliable moves and a weight that makes him combo food. You're just handicapping yourself by choosing him over Sheik/ZSS/Diddy
>>320965229
What does his reasons for being in the game have to do with how good he is?
Absolutely nothing jackass, good job.
>>320965438
>You're handicapping yourself by not picking Shiek/ZSS
That's true for almost every character in the game. Charizard doesn't have to be as good as Shiek to be a great character.
>>320964801
He's shit mah mayn. I can juggle him for the rest of the match after I launch the poor lizard.
>>320953956
Hahahahahahaha how is losing to Cloud a thing haha throw him off the stage hahahahahaha like nigga hit him with a forward air hahahahaha
>>320965658
Yeah just like Mario is shit I regularly dunk Mario shitters on FG every day so he's bad :^D
>>320964801
all that shit about Ryo makes me think you don't know what you're talking about. Like you heard M2K talk about Ike's drawbacks the other day and decided to apply that to Charizard. Not to mention you haven't actually listed any reasons why he's good
>>320965661
This is hilarious to do. I wanna say he's worse than Mac. At least Mac can recover sideways.
>>320965582
>>320965452
Listen dude, I know how you feel. He's one of my favorite pokemon, and using Mega-Y has helped me win some hardcore pokemon battles, but in smash he's just below average. Yes, he's though, but his moves are weak and with no reach, plus he's slow, so no combos or chance to follow your opponent. He just can't compete with more normal characters like pac-man or mario. Charizard is the anti-sonic in the fact that sonic is light and fast, but also really weak and can easilly be trhown out of the stage, while charizard is hard to trhow out and can resist the unishment, but can't really do anything
>>320965869
Nah dude, Mario got speed and a small body he can rely on. Charizard is like a descending hot air balloon.
>all my friends get cloud
>completely fucking wreck me(didn't really have problems before, I won against them most of the time)
>buy Cloud myself, pretty cool
>go on FG
>get fucking bodied, don't win any matches
>switch to my main
>still don't win any matches
The joy of being fucking garbage at video games.
>>320954996
>0%
no, we didn't see percentages nor the damage she does with her attacks in that trailer, besides the part with witch time.
>play samus
>give up expecting anything good to happen
Thanks whackurai
>>320966063
I'm not saying this because I like Charizard, I don't even use the character.
>>320965924
All that shit about Ryo? Like my one mention of him showing Ike's viability? Yes, that's a fair comparison because that's all Charizard needs right now.
I'm not listing all of the reasons Charizard is great because I don't want to waste too much time and effort arguing with a bunch of 17 year old casuals on /v/, for all I know you are all ass at the game. Its not like a real life discussion or a talk with other known players on smashboards or something. Here, I'll give you a very quick rundown if you want.
>longest range non tether grab with a combo throw and a kill throw
>Not just a kill throw, perhaps the best kill throw in the game since Charizards weight and recovery allows him to benefit from Rage more than Ness, not being reliant on having your back to the blast zone, and using platforms like on Battlefield, Dreamland, ect to kill insanely early
>Great recovery means you can always go deep for gimps, every aerial kills besides nair
>All of his specials are useful (to put it quickly)
>Great mixup game on the ground with a fast, long range, punishing jab
>Great frame data on his down smash with an invincible frame 6 up smash
Blah blah blah, long story short he has tons of tools for a good player to take advantage of.
semi-hijack here
How's this guy after the buffs last patch? They were pretty aggressive
>>320967037
The second lightest character in the game.
>>320960313
I might be wrong on this, but I heard somewhere that it has the longest charge time of anything that can be actively charged. That on its own would be fine, but the issue is you can't reset the charge with an attack (such as a projectile) while he's charging.
>>320967037
he's also shit, but at least has some range and his moves can conect fast
>>320964005
Charizard is great in a team battle if you're playing with a friend that you know is good.
>>320967037
He's better and more fun to play overall, with moves that easily follow up on one another, improved mobility and more consistent hitboxes. The buffs didn't do anything to fix his glaring flaws though. If you enjoyed him before you'll enjoy him more now, but if you didn't then the buffs won't win you over (unless his walk and run speed were the thing that actually bothered you).
>Ike main
>Nobody used him at the start because he "sucked"
>nerf waves incoming
>He's one of the best ones
>Everyone uses him
I want my hipster character back dammit
>>320967037
Haven't lost a game with him yet.
>>320966972
Listen man, Charizard is absolute mid-tier at best. He's a poor man's Bowser. What made Pokemon Trainer good in Brawl was that you essentially had three different characters at once, a heavy hitter, a speed hitter, and a ranged hitter.
Charizard only is just mid tier because he just doesn't have the moves or ability to be as good as the other heavy hitters and is just an easy target.
>>320962727
I think his back-air counts as a kill move.
>>320967037
I never thought he was bad but he's a lot better after the last patch.
>>320966972
>He actually thinks Bowser is better than Charizard
I hope you were not the guy who asked me for actual reasons why Charizard was good, because I gave you a small list of reasons and you guys are just saying "He's big" over and over again.
I know he's big jackass.
>>320967403
>What made Pokemon Trainer good in Brawl was that you essentially had three different characters at once
You mean it's because he had Squirtle
oh man am I glad Squirtle is gone
>>320961554
>>320962295
>>320962162
Are there any tournaments with 1.1.3 Bowser that I can watch? It's one thing to see combo videos and another to see it in the field.
>>320967856
Never forget
>squirtle fair killed
>fair did 17%
>armor move
>mobilty up the ass
>gimp: the character
>>320966694
I have a really low percentage of wins on FG. What gets me is there's always this tiny bit of input lag that throws me off. I just can't get used to it. I got pretty good at tipping with Marth but online I miss all the time. Same with any other precise attack.
>>320956859
>not fun to play
>implying PP F, D, or U-tilt combos aren't the best shit
also no way sheik is the most boring when mario and sonic exist
>>320962957
I'm pretty sure they did it to keep their options open in case they ever add new Final Fantasy stuff in Sma5h, such as stages, assist trophies, items, etc. But then it's kind of odd when you sort the trophy list by series, and Cloud's series is listed specifically as Final Fantasy VII.
Does anyone else here not use the grab function at all? I played melee when I was younger, and wasn't even aware that you could grab. Now grabbing just doesn't feel right.
I understand I'm at a big disadvantage, but I just don't use it.
>>320969095
I'm a scrub so I only ever grab if I'm playing samus
>>320969095
>play on the Wii u controller
>always shield or dodge instead of grabbing
JUST
>>320960332
>little Mac with a sword
>can actually jump back to the platform
>projectiles
>limit break charges way too fast
Yea but no...not at all
>>320969095
I always forget to grab. I know it's there and if I think to use it I will, but it's not instinctive. Doesn't help that when I do remember I have a grab and try to use it, I end up whiffing 90% of the time.
>>320969095
Grabbing is often the best offense
Grabs beat shields and are generally fast.
Throws in all Smash games can force the enemy into compromising situations. In 64/Melee/Brawl you had chain throws which are a rather extreme example of it, but even with those gone Smash 4 still has many characters with guaranteed followups off of throws. As a Lucas main I'm discouraged from grabbing too often because the punishes for whiffing get too real at some point, but it's still an integral part of any good player's game, and Lucas does get good rewards off of a grab.
>>320957856
I'd argue he's easier to gimp than little Mac. Mac has both a horizontal and vertical recovery, whereas cloud literally only has one option to get to the ledge unless he has limit break.
>>320969318
Without Limit Break, his recovery is almost worse than Little Mac's. Nothing besides his regular aerial mobility to cover horizontal distance, and Climhazzard is absolute rubbish at vertical recovery and doesn't even snap to the ledge. LB takes roughly seven seconds to charge without dealing/receiving any damage, and is expended the moment you press B (+ a direction).
>>320960707
Move is slow and laggy as balls. Can't even punish a whiffed grab with it, unless it's a tether grab
>>320967037
he's pretty good, some hitboxes are way better now, like bair which helps a lot.
He still has an great punish game though he dies early too.
>>320961540
this
>>320961959
backthrow to side special is guaranteed for some characters at low percents
>>320961959
>Little Mac
>Shitty Frame data
>>320955320
>This happened with Little Mac
>This happened with Palutena
>This is happening right now with all the final DLC characters
When will people learn?
>>320971679
>you
>reading comprehension
Anyone up for some sm4sh games?
>>320954996
Oh fuck off already. K. Rool will never be in smash, get over yourself.
>>320960962
>09er and a smash fag that has no idea what he's talking about.
No wonder smash is a joke to the fgc. Ryu has quite a few of my preferred combos from third strike.
>>320961104
thanks sakurai
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Rmore so then they've been already I mean, I should probably be happy we've been buffed every patch
>>320973604
Robin is already good, fuck off. Buff some bad shit like Ganon and Jigglypuff.
>>320962378
OR YOU COULD FUCKING SHIELD
>>320973604
Robin already has a 100% guaranteed kill setup from a fucking projectile.
Arcthunder>connects> Run and uair
Acthunder>they block>RC Grab>dthrow>uair
Fuck off. Try playing a character that relies on hard reads and airdodge 50/50s for kills like Ike. Baby-mode characters like Robin shouldn't be complaining.
>>320962678
>this shit again
What do we call recovery (getting back to the stage) then? Huh, retard?
>>320976775
I hate this terrible Ike Rule 63, the face is never remotely convincing.
>>320976775
>implying dthrow to uair is even that consistent
>>320955108
>mfw I play Ike and I can easily kill Cloud by just using counter on the edge when he recovers
Sadly that tactics works very easily on Ike as well
>>320977345
It is. Uair has a huge arc hitbox so it's very lenient with DI.
What matters is the %.
Once you hit the golden % window, you better just start fishing for that grab.
Go into Robin's Smashboards and look for a % chart. It's very character specific.
>play Cloud against anything that isn't Cloud or Shulk
>win easily
>play Cloud against Cloud or Shulk
>lose in the scrubbiest way possible
how
>>320955560
>What is terrible recovery
Cloud is arguably the most gimpable character in the game, maybe next to Mac.
