"Mario" only became a dirty word when Nintendo started milking the NSMB style to death on Miyamoto's insistence.
I mean, it's not like NSMBU/Luigi U is bad or anything. The games still work great on a functional level and I'd even say they're still fun, par for the course of Mario, but the actual idea, the presentation...It's a little generic. Kind of boring and played out.
The real issue is that it's not confined to the NSMB series of games. That sort of mindset for how Mario should be has leaked over into the overall aesthetic of games like 3D World and Paper Mario: Sticker Star. 3D World, again, is still a good game, and it looks gorgeous, but it still has that genericized whitewashed feel that most modern Mario games have. As for Sticker Star, Miyamoto made sure that story elements were cut down, original characters were dropped, and that the only setting was to be a paper variant of the mainline Mushroom Kingdom. Many fans feel these decisions were disastrous, and because of it, Sticker Star is regarded as a deeply flawed shadow of what its predecessors were.
This boils down to two problems: Mario is becoming stigmatized as a boring, samey, rehashed series of games, and the RPG spinoff titles are at risk of degrading in overall quality so long as Miyamoto continues to attempt packaging them up in the neat NSMB-style handbasket. What should Nintendo do to spice up their flagship series of games again?
>>320855879
>that genericized whitewashed feel that most modern Mario games have
You hit the nail on the head. Everything started to go wrong during the Wii generation. Somehow everything feels so clean and safe and... boring.
In terms of visuals, I'll agree that NSMB looks generic. This is probably because it uses the 3D Mario style which looks boring when compressed to 2D.
However no one has been able to properly explain to me what exactly the "genericized whitewashed feel" is in 3D World and 3D Land. It's fucking 3D Mario. There is objectively no difference to the Galaxy games which were the first Mario games that were nearly identical to promotional artworks. I think you people are just becoming too adult and cynical for Mario.
Mario just feels like there isn't any stakes anymore
>bah bah
I'm fine with nsmb
>>320856264
The Galaxy games suffer from the same thing.
I don't think it's just a problem I have with Mario. I still think Mario 64 is a great game, and it doesn't have this problem.
I've independently had this feeling before, and another of my friends who is only casually into video games voiced the same feelings about the newer Marios. Maybe someone else can articulate it better.
>>320856068
>Somehow everything feels so clean and safe and... boring.
Not in 3D World.
>>320856264
>However no one has been able to properly explain to me what exactly the "genericized whitewashed feel" is in 3D World and 3D Land. It's fucking 3D Mario.
The 3D Games have always done a better job of being more distinct.
I notice in the aesthics and promotional material Mario has become zombified, but the games themselves are still good. Better than they have any right to be, even if they are rehashes.
I think it would take them being straight up bad for the real decline of Mario as a mascot to start.
Mario Maker is perfectly timed because it buys the franchise some time to take a break and refine whatever comes next.
I think their idea for the homogenizing is that if the other games look more like the NSMB games it will make the players who only really know about NSMB feel more like those games are connected to the game they're familiar with and will be more likely to play it.
I think what really happens though is that it makes the series look more boring to people like it's all stuck doing the same thing.
>>320856638
>The Galaxy games suffer from the same thing.
See, I'm willing to argue about 3D Land and 3D World because while I like them, I find them to easily be a step down compared to Galaxy. But the moment these "soulless Mario" arguments concern Galaxy, that's the threshold where I stop taking people seriously and assume they're probably eternally salty Sunshinefags. Galaxy 1 and 2 are ridiculously imaginative and varied adventures across the cosmos, how the fuck is there anything there that makes them have less personality than previous Mario titles.
>Friend bought a wii u that came with NSMBU and a wiimote
>Decide to play together, one person using the gamepad, the other the wiimote
>hurdurr the gamepad can only be used for boost mode in multiplayer even though it works fine in singleplayer, go buy another wiimote goy
Fuck Nintendo.
>People blame Miyamoto's minor restrictions for Intelligent Systems being complete retards
I guess this is sort of related, but I've always wanted a Mario game to completely replicate the visual style of Yoichi Kotabe's official art for the series. Mario just looks better in 2D than he does in 3D.
>>320857424
Look up "Sticker Star Miyamoto" on Google and you can find any number of articles that discuss Miyamoto's well-documented involvement in the game. A few even have damage control commentary by IS' own devs, but they still affirm that Miyamoto was the one who called all the shots on the project.
>>320856264
Take what I say with a grain of salt some I absolutely love 3D World. It was my game of the year. The 2 big differences between 3D World and previous 3D Mario games are the viewer perspective, they took away most of our camera control, and smaller but more numerous levels. So each level feels less like exploring around and more just running to the end.
3D World agonist feels like it should have been a multiplayer spin off than a flagship Mario game. I still give it a 10/10 and love it, but I totally see the distinction between 3D World and other Mario games.
Also Captain Toad is a bro and I hope he gets more games.
>>320856638
3DW/3DL having the "genericized whitewashed feel" is probably more from the controls being simplified while it tries to take a lot of inspiration from 2D Mario gameplay. It's new for the 3D games but it feels familiar enough that it doesn't feel like anything that sticks out.
I don't think their intention with the game was to do anything impressive. They just wanted to make a 3D title that anyone could get into since past 3D titles gave newer players a harder time than the 2D games did.
It was overall bad timing for 3DW since the Wii-U's playerbase is mostly made up of older fans when it was mostly intended as 3D Mario introduction to the NSMB Wii audience.
>>320857620
It's cool how that artstyle has had a major revival since 3D Land. 3D Land, 3D World and Mario Kart 8 all use it heavily.
>>320857620
>2D Mario game following this style in the vein of Rayman Origins
Yea or nay?
>>320857684
Factually wrong. Miyamoto suggested they try making a game without OC donutsteels. He didn't say "remove all dialogue and only use staple enemies."
>>320855879
>Mario is becoming stigmatized as a boring, samey, rehashed series of games
Yeah, nah. Go fuck yourself. 3D World and NSMBU were both amazing.
>>320857903
http://nintendoeverything.com/107335/miyamoto-wanted-a-change-in-atmosphere-lesser-story-for-paper-mario-sticker-star/
He did the same thing with Super Mario Galaxy 2, actually.
>Mario has gone stale!
>now if you'll excuse me I'll be playing [insert franchise with several games in which the gameplay is nearly exactly the same in every installment]!
>>320857903
Source? It's pretty well-known Miyamoto operates on a Gordon Ramsay-ish "my way or you're out" approach when he's not in front of a camera, and it's well-documented (and very obvious) that he was standing in the office through most of development forcing the designers to implement anything he rattled off the top of his head
>>320856762
3d world is the safest Mario that existed what innovation does that have
>>320855879
>these well designed games are bad cause of aesthetics
>myiamoto is ruining the platformers even though he's barely involved with them at this point and only makes some suggestions to the team rather than actually taking a leading role in any mario for years now
>he didn't even produce 3d world or nsmbu
>muh sticker star scapegoat absolves IS for taking his suggestions like not just rehashing thousand year door in the worst direction possible
You wrote all that shit and the only thing to get out of this post is that you're a retard.
>>320858087
>he wanted things to be different
Explain what exactly this thread started as a complaint about again?
>he wanted less story
Doesn't say he wanted NO story, or BARELY ANY dialogue, or LET'S DITCH CHAPTERS AND PARTNERS FIR NO REASON.
All of those things were IS watering down everything and using Miyamoto's words as a scapegoat.
>>320856923
Nah the gameplay is generic
With 3D World focusing on 4 player, it made playing single player boring for me. I've never had this problem with Mario games before.
>>320857930
what rates higher: "our god is an awesome god", or "thanks god it's perfect"?
>>320858149
You didn't even read the OP, did you? No one's hating on Mario, we're discussing how certain stylistic choices are giving the games a bad image and preventing them from being all they can be.
>>320857930
Super Mario 2 was a great game duck every Mario past 2006
>>320856923
>whatever comes next
When are we going to get a proper new 3D Mario game? Not 3D World, but the next main entry in the series. We're approaching 6 years since Galaxy 2.
>>320856068
>>320855879
So basically the same thing Disney does to Mickey Mouse. And don't say the new shorts. Disney is adamant about saying this is NOT the actual Mickey Mouse right down to hiring a new VA.
>>320856762
>Not in 3D World
It's a liner 3D Mario. It's pretty much just NSMB converted to a 3D space with a few basic 3D gimmicks using the same old worlds they always use. Only new ones were those few carnival stages and the two(?) asian stages
>>320858149
I am playing binding of Isaac what modern Zelda should be
All modern Nintendo games suck>>320858280
>>320858280
Alpha Dream has stated that when Miyamoto asked them to do certain things with Dream Team, they say down with him and negotiated instead of bending over and presenting their asses and then proceeding to water down everything because "lol Boss's orders!" like IS did.
>>320858280
>and it's well-documented (and very obvious) that he was standing in the office through most of development forcing the designers to implement anything he rattled off the top of his head
You think Miaymoto's position gives him time to stand around in a office that isn't his own all day? The most he does is send out emails/video calls on the thoughts of the game builds he gets. He only actually physically goes to other buildings when he feels the need for it and doesn't stay there for long.
>>320857204
Luckily you can use the Pro Controller, but yeah, it fucking sucks shit, only because they included that SPAM BLOCKS AT THE SCREEN gimmick. It would've been nice to be able to turn that gimmick off and just use it as a controller.
>>320858719
We're going out tomorrow to buy additional controllers and 3D World in preparation to splurge on that 4 player goodness on new years eve.
Mayb even get Smash or MK8 if we can decide which one.
It's sad what has happened to Nintendo, they will probably be mobile only by the end of the decade
>>320858963
You can't go wrong with either Smash or MK8, though perhaps Smash is more fun for prolonged play. MK8's DLC is a killer deal and adds a lot to the game, on the other hand.
>>320858963
Both Sm4sh and MK8 are pretty good, MK8 is the best Mario Kart in the whole series and Sm4sh is pretty good too, just has too much fucking DLC.
>>320855879
My dream is a Mario game with the same art style, level of graphics and detail, and environments as Mario Kart 8.
Imagine getting to explore the Thwomp Ruins! Neo-Bowser City as one of the last levels! Imagine playing a 3D, main series Mario game with those semi-realistic, beautiful, highly detailed graphics!
Ideally, it would play similar to Banjo Tooie: open-world gameplay where you slowly unlock environments that you can walk to on foot (you would also unlock fast traveling options as you advance, too.)
>>320858980
Why do people keep saying shit like this when they're turning up a profit even with the Wii U being a disaster?
>>320858963
MK8 is fucking godly, coming from someone who took a break from Mario Kart since the Gamecube.
>>320859079
>>320859149
>>320859297
We're leaning towards sm4sh, since we're going to buy wiimotes to get the most out of the other games that came bundled with it, like NintendoLand, and we don't know how serviceable the tilt controls are for MK8 and we have absolutely no money left to buy nunchuks as well.
>>320859271
They're turning a profit because of portables and amiibo
WiiU is just a money sink at this point
>>320859271
The Wii U isn't a disaster. You do realize that just because something doesn't sell as well as it's competitor's doesn't mean it's a "disaster", right? RC Cola doesn't sell nearly as much as Pepsi or Coca Cola, but they still make a fuck ton of money.
>>320858679
And the they made Paper Jam, a game with no original RPG characters, less story than previous M&L games and only locations from NSMB.
Guess who won in the end, if Alphadream or Nintendo?
Mario RPGs are dead.
>Nintendo makes consoles with stupid gimmicks
>Either doesn't use them in the case of the 3DS or just makes them feel forced in the case of the Wii U
I don't understand why Nintendo doesn't just go back to no gimmicks, the Gamecube was a fine console.
I mean just imagine
>Powerful Nintendo console that's up to the current gen's standards
>Actual marketing done
>No shitty gimmicks
>Third party support because the console can easily handle the muliplat games and devs don't have to add something to use Nintendo's gimmick
Not to mention every gimmick loses it's novelty extremely fast with Nintendo games. Can't remember the last time I had 3D on
>>320859484
You don't have to use tilt controls for MK8. In fact, I don't even think they're turned on by
default.
>WiiU is just a money sink at this point
Source? That's what I thought, idiot.
>>320855879
That's exactly why they made Super Mario Maker; it was obvious from the "New" series that they were out of ideas, and so put their tools in the hands of the consumer.
There's no way they'd backpedal to those formulaic 2D games at this point, unless they were literally fucking retarded.
If they ever do want to make more 2D Mario, there will have to be some drastic changes, do some crazy stuff that isn't possible in Maker.
As for 3D games, the latest one, 3D World, had a lot more soul than all the New games combined, it gave me a genuine sense of childlike wonder, like I was playing Super Mario World for the first time again. If they keep improving on that kind of Gameplay, even just a little bit per-entry, then that facet of the Mario series will be just fine.
>>320859484
>plays smash with a wiimote
Ouch.
Though that GC adapter plus GC controllers would be even more expensive... have fun anyway.
>>320859547
Paper Jam is still a very creative game, compared to Sticker Star. Paper Bowser actually talks, they do a lot of characterization for the Bowser Jr.s and the Koopalings, and is still a overall better game then Sticker Star. it also fixes Dream Team's flaws, with most tutorials being skippable and text being able to be fast forwarded.
>>320859149
Neo Nintendo
Good
Choose one and only one
>>320859517
That's kinda my point tho, that they're still making a profit even that money sink. Worst case scenario is that they go full portable but even then that's arguably bad, I'd love that shit
>>320859532
It failed to carry over the casual market from last gen and there isn't a single system seller on it, it's a disaster
>>320859709
You really think they'll pass on the millions of sales of NSMB NX?
Get real?
>>320859605
So a regular nunchukless wiimote is enough? That's great,I must've misread then.
>>320859714
Expensive is a mild term because we're eastern yuropoors so it's either out of stock or costs so much that we'd be better off buying from a scalper. But it's not that terrible if we're casuals to Smash, right?
>>320860002
>But it's not that terrible if we're casuals to Smash, right?
I guess not.
>>320859547
>And the they made Paper Jam, a game with no original RPG characters, less story than previous M&L games and only locations from NSMB.
And it was still better and far more enteratining than Dream Team and Partner's in Time. The levels were less tedious and more fun to go through, it was better paced and has the best gameplay and challenge in the series.
You don't need OC donutsteels for a good Mario & Luigi game or Paper Mario(hell PM64 was almost entirely Mario series characters) and Paper Jam proves that.
>>320859878
I'm looking at my Wii U's library and I see some of my most favourite games of all time there like MK8 and Tropical Dongs
By attempting to deliver a different presentation each title they make because that's what they used to do. SMB, SMB2 US, SMB3, SMW Yoshi's Island, SMB64 and Sunshine all had different presentations that were distinct from each other and still felt like it was a convincing part of the Super Mario universe. Hell, you don't have to look that far back to see Mario quality. Galaxy had one of the best, gorgeous and most original presentation of the entire series coupled with an orchestral soundtrack that doesn't seem forced. It's just that, since then, they have stopped trying with the presentation, so no matter how much they tweak the mechanics, add costumes and nostlagic references, it always has the same coating. Each NSMB game is nothing but a world/level package expansion to the previous game except it's slightly more good looking than the previous installment.
The problem with the new formula
>>320860173
>You don't need OC donutsteels
Please stop saying that as if the original characters in the other Mario RPG games are a derogatory element. Also, PM64's party was arguably original, in that they had defining traits/names and weren't just "Toad 1, Toad 2, Toad 3" and so on.
>>320860212
>Galaxy had one of the best, gorgeous and most original presentation of the entire series coupled with an orchestral soundtrack that doesn't seem forced. It's just that, since then, they have stopped trying with the presentation, so no matter how much they tweak the mechanics, add costumes and nostlagic references,
Whether you like it or not, technically 3D Land and 3D World had a different presentation from the two Galaxy games that preceded them.
>>320860187
Mk64 is superior to 8 other then grphxs
I love tropical donkey Kong because when you jump into the pit you get pulled up by a balloon for failing and,you still suceed
Which is shit
>>320859547
Fortunately Alpha Dream was still allowed to keep their brilliant writting...they just couldn't make it 10x better with Alpha Dream brand originality.
Alpha Dream becoming an independent studio when?
>>320860426
>I love tropical donkey Kong because when you jump into the pit you get pulled up by a balloon for failing and,you still suceed
That's only if you buy the items, from the shop.
>>320859840
Being more creative than Sticker Star doesn't mean shit.
It's still a game with the original content typical of Mario RPGs removed or neutered.
Both Mario RPG series are heading in this direction now, it's undeniable.
The game has also a whole lot of other problems but that's not the issue here.
>>320860426
>Mk64 is superior to 8 other then grphxs
Let me guess: muh item distribution?
>>320855879
>generic whitewashed
I think you mean "polished product". They've tried out a whole lot of styles and saw what people like. They decided to build on the strengths of the series rather than alienate fans.
>>320860426
>>Mk64 is superior to 8 other then grphxs
>>320860538
Instead of developing a challenging game I choose to make items in a store that make you win without thinking. That is the Neo Nintendo way
>>320860742
Except Dongs Freeze IS challenging.
>>320860742
By that logic, any game with an easy mode isn't hard anymore, cause I can just pick easy mode and not play on normal or hard if I didn't want a challenge.
>>320860742
Guess how I know you've never beaten the game on Hard Mode.
>>320860173
>brainwashed fanboys are so desperate to deny that Nintendo can do anything wrong that all the charming characters and locations Mario RPGs used to have are "OC donutsteels "
I fucking hate you people.
I really do.
>>320859840
>Paper Jam is still a very creative game
By definition, it cannot be.
You cant just take two existing settings and mix them, leave that shit to deviant art.
>>320860691
Thats one plus
Infinite shell hits
When a item hits it actually had the effect of hitting someone not like one quick spin and your back.
Kart is faster
Obstacles are all through the levels
Kart is harder to control
Kart is more fun to control drifting is more challenging and fun.
Infinite areas to shoot shells
Levels are more complex and more well thought out.
>>320856264
I'll take a crack at it if no one else has.
Up till galaxy, there was a sense of momentum to the way the Mario series was developing.
Each 3D mario had a very unique feel and aesthetic, and had somethimg new and interesting on offer. 64 had the freeform concept of the series, sunshine added insanely deep movement and controls, along with a unified setting, and galaxy rejected setting and the need for internal world coherency, focusing only on what platforming you were doing, not where or why it was happening.
This halted after galaxy 2 but is really called out whenever people complain about NSMB: they're not usually complaininng about the original game, they're complaining about the sequels not bringing anything new to the table.
The momentum feels halted because nintendo is really willing to spin its wheels with sequels now. Same models, graphics, level design, concept, map screen, and content, with a few inconsequential alterations; throw in a single hard level to appease the base who wants something new and are starved for content, and ship. It's become predictable now, and predictable and stale are almost synonymous.
There's very litte sense we're going to see something new and weird from Mario ever again. Sunshine was a "wut". Galaxy was less of a "wut", but was still surprising in feel and refocus on 3D linearity. The sterile feel is the feeling that Nintendo is out of ideas and Mario can no longer surprise us.
That has been an issue for a while now. The only difference is despite having seemingly nothing up its sleeve, Nintendo feels content to keep churning out new games which wallow mechanically and visually in their previous games.
It's whitewashed in the sense that using a paint by numbers kit produces whitewashed art: it's just going through the motions to make something old again for the unpteenth time.
That's all Mario is now. Paint by numbers.
NSMBU and the NSLU dlc was a huge step up from previous NSMB games. It was absolutely fantastic.
Super Mario 3D Land was a unique concept when it came out and really fresh for a handheld game, then 3D World improved on it to make a really fun game too.
>>320860740
Ok I know your first mk was game cube all of them besides we sucks after 64 f9d was a 6.5/10
>>320861246
OP here, I'm not claiming to dislike any of the games. I liked Luigi U so much that I 100%-ed my file and I'm in the process of doing that for 3D World (as if that game ever actually ends).
All I'm saying is that Mario can use a bit more flair, it could stand to have things shaken up a bit. And that wouldn't be bad for marketing purposes, either. Just look at how many people on /v/ alone dismiss new Mario games as uninspired rehashes.
>>320860823
Not at all compared to dkc1 and 2
>>320860173
>The levels were less tedious and more fun to go through, it was better paced and has the best gameplay and challenge in the series.
Are you fucking kidding me?
The combat is the only good thing about the gameplay, all the rest is garbage.
The pacing if fucked by dozens of minigames mandatory to proceed, level design is often bland, with areas too fucking big and with no reward for exploring, and it has more backtracking that any other game in the series.
>>320861457
>DKC1
>hard
ahahahahahaha
>>320860916
I want the game to be challenging before I even select a difficulty. Hard mode 2015 = very easy mode 1995
>>320861352
learn to write m8
>>320861457
DKC1 wasn't that hard
>>320861243
That's bullshit.
Literally the entire point of the NSMB games were new teams filling the missing role of 2D Mario games because they are nothing like 3D ones, and even then it only has one per system and shows huge improvement.
As far as 3D games go, the 3D Land/World games are drastically different from Galaxy 1/2, same as that was different from Sunshine, same as that was different from 64. I don't see how you could possibly argue otherwise.
>>320861661
>Hard mode 2015 = very easy mode 1995
Not all older games are necessarily hard, and not all newer games are necessarily easy. Kirby games released back then were easy and are still easy.
>>320861609
>The pacing if fucked by dozens of minigames mandatory to proceed, level design is often bland, with areas too fucking big and with no reward for exploring, and it has more backtracking that any other game in the series.
I think you're talking about Bowser's Inside story there. Because Paper Jam relegates most of the mini-games to the Lakitu Hut which makes the areas much more streamlined and your reward for exploring are item blocks/equipment. You're not scouring the level/2d sections for Attack Pieces.
Not to mention the game's run mechanic. its the most fun and fast paced exploration of the levels of any of the 5 games. If you think it isn't you should probably go back and play them.
>>320860426
>>320860742
>>320861457
How about trying to play the game without a huge handicap, you massive pussy?
Tropical Freeze is one Neo Nintendo game that I really can't dislike.
I fear the day when they'll be able to ruin even Retro, however.
>>320862330
>Neo Nintendo game
What is that even suppose to mean?
>>320861428
You mean a handful of jaded people drawn to a blatant circlejerk thread about how shit something is? That's nobody. That is not an audience to market to in the slightest. Nevermind they want a rehash every bit as much and not something new.
>>320862416
It means:
>"Not only do I have nostalgia goggles, I've welded them to my face for good measure".
>>320862416
A game made by Nintendo under the grey logo.
>>320862416
It's so you can know someone's real cool for being a contrarian, because everything new now sucks and it was so much better before.
>Grass
>Desert
>Beach
>Forest
>Lava
>NSMB
Then I guess every game made is tainted with NSMB, because those tropes appear in every fucking game.
PS: Miyamoto doesn't even work on NSMB. All he does is throw suggestions like every other game EAD does.
>>320861352
You type like a 10 year old who cries about being born in the wrong generation because games have to pander to your retardation. I'm not even going to argue with actual children.
>>320862125
>Because Paper Jam relegates most of the mini-games to the Lakitu Hut
That's poor game design, you often have to go through an almost empy area just to reach a Lakitu center that teleports you back there for a minigame. Not to mention when you're forced to go through an area during a minigame and then again normally. And this isn't even half the backtracking the game has.
>Not to mention the game's run mechanic
Which only exist because the Arras are abnornally big and for shitty minigames.
I really hope it's gone in the next game. Not that I'm going to play it if it doesn't have original characters and locations again anyway.
>>320861208
>Levels are more complex and more well thought out
Delusion. Many of them in MK64 have the ground be completely flat, and use boring tropes. Also, how in the fuck is worse controls a good thing?
>Best MK anything other than DS
>those mechanics
>those karts
>that roster
>those missions
>that battle mode and maps
>>320862330
You'll never have a Nintendo executive meddle with a DKC game to the extent that they will Mario games. For all intents and purposes, modern Donkey Kong is a product of the West; all elements of the current DK franchise are wholly derived from Rareware's re-imagining of the series. Nintendo can't claim a pretension as to what DKC should be since they didn't make it; not to mention their own attempt at a Donkey Kong platformer after Rare's departure (that being Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat) failed to make a significant impact or catch on with audiences to nearly the same extent as Rare's titles did.
>>320862594
>>320862685
>praise a game
>HURR YOURE JUST A CONTRARIAN AND HATE ANYTHING NEW BECAUSE NOSTALGIA
Jesus christ.
>>320861930
First, you're objectivey wrong about one NSMB per system. Luigi U was the second entry of NSMB on the Wii U.
Second, the problem of staleness is caused by NSMB's frequency relative to more experimental work and as a replacement to the stellar handhold series we previously had.
More on the frequency: NSMB currently has ds, wii, 2, U, and luigi U as its entries. Even were I to accept land or world are original games which take the series forward, which I refuse to do because I can't find a comparable mechanical difference which would match the series' early growth, I also have to admit it's surrounded by the entire NSMB series rehashing the same core components and galaxy 2: at most charitable, the original content to levelpack sequel ratio at Ninty is 2/5, when previously until galaxy the ratio among 3D marios was 3:0, all entries were fundamentally new entries, and across all mainline games, was something like 10:0, or more. We're not seeing any of that creativity anymore that increasingly powerful hardware previously allowed Nintendo to exploit to differentiate games, despite Nintendo building consoles one would expect would allow for that creativity, with full 3D and a second screen.
Being polished can't save NSMB. The comparable 2D handheld entries they're meant to replace are all individually so drastically different that NSMB makes it more stark then ever how far Nintendo's creative muscles have faultered.
The new entries are merely aping their predecessors: there are no radical breeches in the formula of a mario game The radical newness has been traded for a more streamlined experience, which gives a sense of polish and sterility by predictability that older fans dislike.
Basically, differences aren't the key - change of what the series is, IS. Nintendo seems to be content cementing the series they have and pumping out sequels. More power to them, but I got my fill the first time playing NSMB, I don't need levelpack 6.
>>320863648
You should probably reread what you wrote, because phrasing it as an exception to being ruined by a big bad bogeyman with a cynical outlook for the future sounds like the kind of viewpoint that shits on almost everything new.
>>320865226
Luigi U is a discounted add-on.
And 3D Land and 3D World are different from NSMB and Galaxy.
Your argument is stupid.
>PROSTATETIP: "Mario" means "Autism"
It's time to move on from this worn-out whore. There's no more tread on the tires m8.
>>320865553
Sold separately at packaged retail for a full year, hardly an addon so much as another full game level pack starring Luigi.
You didn't address any of my other points, especially that their difference is insufficient, so you'll get no more (you)'s till you have.
>>320855879
Mario only became a dirty word when Sunshine shat the bed. People wanted another great platforming adventure, and instead they got the worst Mario game that wasn't on the CD-i
>Awful story with some notoriously bad voicework
>turned Peach from what little character she had available into full on brainless bimbo with blow up doll lips
>Levels are linear utterly, so players have to play the game the exact same way every time
>0 classic Mario enemies besides goopy pirahna plants
>"what if Navi from Zelda was a water gun"
>the only praises the game got were "this game could be fun if all the levels were like the ones without the shitty water gun gimmick" and "the water is very pretty"
Alright /v/ I know how much you don't like the way Mario RPGs are going by story but here is the thing. I want to make people happy and when I see NSMB skyrocketing in sales I know many people are being happy playing the game. I want those people to stay happy so I make sure the RPGs cater to them so that they won't be distracted by much. People play Mario games not expecting a complex story, they just want funny cartoon characters saving the Princess and world from the cartoonishly scary Bowser. Happiness is a top priority that can be weighed down when the game pauses to introduce some character that wasn't needed or to stop because the plot demands it. This isn't what people who play Mario games want, they just want fun. After all the game is fine without a huge narrative or a new set of cast members, so do we even need it? Go read a book or watch a movie because Mario games are not meant for you.
>>320867827
Sunshine was Splatoon's fetal stage. New ideas were an exciting experiment then but spergs like you just want more of the same and literally defend NSMB itt. Holy fuck pls just be troll, you're a goddamn cancer cell in the tumor that's crippling Mario games and the series is now terminally ill thanks to you.
pls end yourself when Mario ends.
>>320867827
amazing water for a Gamecube game
>>320867827
You missed the real praise:
>This game has the best platforming movement engine for speedrunning ever made
Fludd breaks the game so hard that one could make a really decent romhack out of just building levels built around using Fludd to go Sanic speeds
>>320868239
Sunshine was the fetal stage to Nintendo's attempt at Early Access no-content games and an adamant refusal to let players control their own game options? All the more reason to hate it, then.
>>320868182
I DO NOTU SAY THATU U PEESE OF SHIET U SHOULD UNO WHO I AM BEFO U MAKE FUNNY OF ME!
>>320858305
see through pipes
>>320867827
>>0 classic Mario enemies besides goopy pirahna plants
Bloopers.
>>320868486
>Sunshine was the fetal stage to Nintendo's attempt at Early Access no-content games and an adamant refusal to let players control their own game options? All the more reason to hate it, then.
Refusal to control their own game options? What are you talking about? You have plenty of options. You can even choose to not use gyro controls or not. And yes it was an early access game, but no one was forced to buy it at launch. They could wait till now, when the game has tons of content, all for free within it.
>>320867827
>turned Peach from what little character she had available into full on brainless bimbo with blow up doll lips
>you will never be a pretty pink bimbo princess
>>320855879
Mario only became a dirty word when Galaxy shat the bed. People wanted another great platforming adventure, and instead they got the worst Mario game that wasn't on the CD-i
>Awful story with some notoriously bad voicework
>turned Peach from what little character she had available into full on brainless bimbo with blow up doll lips
>Levels are linear utterly, so players have to play the game the exact same way every time
>0 classic Mario enemies besides space goombas
>"what if Navi from Zelda was a Peach knockoff"
>the only praises the game got were "this game could be fun if all the levels were like the ones without the shitty waggling gimmick" and "the stars are very pretty"
>>320869468
Why even fucking live
>>320870834
Did you even read what you copy pasted?
>>320861058
What definition is that?
I think it's because they just don't try new things with Mario games and their aesthetics anymore. Like, here's Mario Party 5.
>>320872656
And then here's Mario Party 10. It looks nice, it just feels a bit boring.
It's got too much of the NSMB approach to it.
>>320872656
>>320872736
>I think it's because they just don't try new things with Mario games and their aesthetics anymore
>Like, here's Mario Party 5.
Well here's Mario Party 1. Which means Mario Party 10 is actually the different, new one.
>>320862508
I've never made a post regarding the "new" Mario series on /v/ in my 8 years of browsing, but I agree with the sentiment expressed by OP. I could never really place what I disliked about the newer Mario games, I figured it was just nostalgia, and maybe it is. I loved Sunshine, it had the most interesting movement mechanics, and if I could go back to something similar to it, where the mechanical depth was entirely within the game, up to using a regular controller without any motion controls, I would.
>>320855879
Basically what's going on is that Nintendo found a style and are sticking to it, making everyone who works on the series to have the characters be on-model.
So they spent 20-ish years experimenting and found designs they liked. That's really the only reason we got stuff like blue thwomps on the n64 and skull faced Dry Bones in paper mario.
>>320857620
Yeah I love the way that looks.
And honestly, the official 3D renders aren't that far off.
Maybe they'd look like that if they had the thick outlines?
>>320855879
They should tell Miyamato to fuck off because he's a senile old dipshit.
>>320859547
And they did it a thousand times better than IS did.
>>320875318
>So they spent 20-ish years experimenting and found 20 millions retards who bought NSMB. So now they make everything look like that hoping to lure that crowd again
ftfy
>>320875640
It's still the worst M&L game. I'd rather replay PiT than this.
>>320861208
>Kart is faster
>200cc
>Kart is harder to control
Thanks to customization this is both true and untrue
>Levels are more complex and more well thought out.
>any mario kart
>more complex tracks than 8
Hell, you can even compare the mk8 versions of mk64 tracks and you'd be wrong.
>>320865226
NSLU was an expansion pack.
>>320875981
go play PiT then. I played it again after finishing paper jam and honestly PiT is so much worse.
>>320875807
If sales were the deciding factor then Mario would have brown overalls to this day.
mARIO!
>>320876220
It's honestly more fun than PJ, no minigames padding the game and the most creative locations in the series. OST is much better too.
>>320876635
nah man. i thought it was boring as shit and it felt way longer despite being the same length as SSS. by the end dungeon i started skipping fights because i couldnt be bothered. the only funny thing to come out of it was mario shouting babies. PJ was way more enjoyable to playthrough even though there were quite a few minigames i enjoyed them because you were using the moves you obtained and the missions usually had you doing something different while being relatively short. the ost is probably the second best in the series. PiTs locartions weren't the most creative DT's and SSS's locations were way better and more creative.
overall to me it's
ST>SSS>BIS=PJ>PiT.
>>320877563
should be DT on top
>>320855879
Mario became a dirty word to me because of fucking Smash Bros. His skill ceiling is super low and he's such cancer as a character. Cookie cutter guaranteed combos that everyone and their grandparents parrot. You're a confirmed fag if you main him.
>>320877839
What kind of tier list is this? It only has like half the characters
Do
The
M.A.R.I.O
Mega.
Autism
Rejects
Innovation
Obtusely
>>320878115
Not everyone is cancer.And I could not fit everyone into my cancer categories
S Tier - require little to no effort, low skill ceiling, used by all the shitters. Some Top Tiers
A Tier - Top Tier but require more effort
B Tier - Only used by waifu fags
C Tier - Projectile Spammers
D Tier - Space Animals
E Tier - Little kids' first For Glory pic
F Tier - Youtube Montage bait
