So which one is better, Dark Souls 1 or 2?
>>320592391
2 isn't even a souls game.
It's a disgrace and should be removed from video game history.
2 is a significantly better game
half of 1 didn't even get finished, it's trash
>>320592391
Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Demon's Souls >>>>>>> Dark Souls 2
BB > DS2 > DS1 > Demon's
>>320592663
>shit opinion
>>320592663
Kill yourself
>>320592524
Kill yourself
1 is a bit more solid. 2 has a ton more stuff.
DAS>DES>BB>DAS2 I like all of them though.
DaS2 > BB > DaS > DeS
Non-diagonal dodge fags need not apply.
>>320592785
This list is also my list.
>>320592391
1
2 did some improvements but was overall worse.
the PvP skill ceiling was so flat.
>>320592391
It's a good game, it's not just a good metal gear game
Das 1 is better, das2 is still a fine game. Des and BB are better than both.
>>320592785
This is and one other list are the only correct ones.
The other one being
DES>DAS>BB>DAS2
If you even got more than 15 minutes in to DAS2, you deserve a medal.
DeS = DaS > BB = DaS2
>>320592928
Uh have you played dark souls pvp? Its literally just poking people with a spear
Like all the so7ls pvp is shallow but man dont be one of thos faggots who pretends dark souls pvp was good in any way, shape or form
2
stay mad h8rs
>>320592785
>>320593014
These lists are correct.
>>320593014
Giving up in a second because you're not used to how the game plays isn't good basis though. You need to master a game to really judge it.
Even then DaS2 ends up worst. The controls and the kinesthetics are really unpleasant. The only improvement was the freeform roll direction, which barely ends up mattering in the end.
Looks like Dark Souls III adds that to DaS1/DeS-alike feeling.
>>320592391
dark souls 1 had bad pvp because of the flip ring and lag compensation, it was a really good single player game
dark souls 2 was kind of just like a remake of dark souls 1, with AWFUL hitboxes and "lol every time your swing your weapon it hits the floor and you have to repair every 30 seconds"
They are both flawed gems
/thread
>>320593078
>spear
This retard.
I've 87% win ratio on Blood Arena, only after about 200 hours. The PvP is much worse in Dark Souls 2.
But ENB said Dark Souls 2 was better...
Do you want good gameplay?
BB=DaS2>DeS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DaS
Do you want world/lore/level design?
DeS>BB>DaS>>>>>>DaS2
Do you want pvp?
DaS2>DeS>Dogshit>BB>Laggy Japs, Front Stabs and no fun allowed Spear mode souls
>>320593221
There's nothing "gem" about Dark Souls II. What good it has is carryover from the first game.
>>320593179
It was too ugly and the controls pissed me off so much. The I found it the led guy wasn't the same.
Bought the special one with the figurine too. Thought about burning it but decided against it.
>>320593229
What does your win ratio have to do with whether or not the pvp is good
>>320593284
Sorry anon, iv already /threaded since im right, and every other view on the game is just wrong.
Demon's Souls = Lore, singleplay, story.
Dark Souls 1 = Lore, singleplay, PvP, visual design.
Dark Souls 2 = Co-op
Bloodborne = Graphics, visual design, lore
>>320592391
Undertale
>>320593387
It should be close to 100% after mastering it. It's already 95%+ in DaS1 after over 1000 hours and still rising. It's not getting anywhere in DaS2 because of skill ceiling the game has.
With DLC? DaS2 is better
Vanilla? DaS > DaS2
>>320593424
Theres NOTHING good about the pvp in dark souls
Half your encounters consists of japs, twinks, or gank squads. The other 10% of invasions are just clown fiestas consisting of retarded backstab fests or some faggot poking you with a spear
>>320593397
I've invalidated it with a counterargument. You can't /thread a thread when someone can throw an obvious argument your way.
>>320593397
Kill yourself
>>320593542
>Theres NOTHING good about the pvp in dark souls
It's tons of fun though.
>Half your encounters consists of japs, twinks, or gank squads.
Stopped playing on PS3 forest.
PC townshit duels all day erry day. There's no one ganking there.
>>320593542
dks has the best PvP and the highest skill level sorry kid.
Back stab escapes became a thing and it ended up on technical skill and outwitting your opponent at high levels.
Man matthew matosis really brainwashed you guys hard with his "critique"(lmao) of dark souls 2. Cant even think for yourself these days, huh?
DaS > DeS > BB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DaS 2
Outside of MGSV I've never been so disappointed with a video game.
Dark Souls 1
It has the best PvP. Tons of excitement and challenging duels.
>>320593775
Your bandwagon is showing senpai
>>320592938
Underated post
>>320593894
The first post ITT mentions how much of a disgrace that game was.
Fuck off. Anyone that liked that piece of shit is a faggot.
>>320593894
Nice counterculture bandwagoning faggot. How fucking typical of this board.
>>320593775
This.
>>320593894
Nice meme.
There's a reason Dark Souls II ended up so botched, too. They had to redesign the game in an extremely short time from old assets and it shows.
>>320593662
yup, I can confirm, having 1000 hours in DaS Des, AND Des2.
DeS is r1 spam or greataxe roll r1 spam:the game not that thats a bad thing, battles are all equally cheap and fun
Das: has a good amount of shit in it to the point where everything is broken so much, that everything is balanced. backstabs being a thing is REALLY overblown by PC das2 apologists. it has the same escapes as Das2, just requires a little more backing up and reflex compared to Das2
DaS2: everyone is max level, lagstabbing and overall hacks and save edits everywhere, even on ps3 and ps4, not just pc.
Also soul memory, disgusting. soul memory is the one reason DaS died, and might die again. agape ring helps though
BB: is okay, takes after DeS a bit though.
>>320593947
I've dumped 100+ hours into both, dark souls II has much better gameplay and is a lot less clunky. Fight mefam
>>320594070
I've spent over 2000 hours playing DaS so you can go fuck yourself.
DaS2 is complete shit.
>>320593894
Das2 pc apologist detected.
Even if you're baiting, it just shows what an asshole you are.
I hope DaS2 fuckers have ZERO influence on DaS3.
I hope from takes NO advice from ANYONE, because taking advice is what caused that fucked up spul memory issue, because you babbies whined about people doing pyromancy at SL 1
>>320592663
Litteraly the wrong way around
DaS > DeS > DaS2 > BB
>>320592391
1 was much better. Expanded on evetryhing DeS did though it did have a few problems.
DS2 is trash. So many many problems. Enemy placment, over abundance of humanoid bosses, crap soul system, covenants that went backwards, little quality of life shit that went backwards, hitbox problems, enemys with infinite stamina, rat trap gauntlet, world design that made no fucking sense.
I get that some people love it but it's a massive step back from what Dark souls 1 tried to improve upon. Of all the souls it feels like the biggest cash grab atempt.
>>320594186
O-oh yeah well I've played 2000 + 1 hours in Das 2! Can confirm DaS is worse
>>320594070
it may be less "clunky", but DaS gets to equal levels of control once you level up end or strip off heavy armor+ninjaroll ring.
Also, you can actually invade people your own fucking level.
The weapons are also ALL usable in DaS1, unlike DaS2, where there is only 3-4 good weapons per weapon class, with every weapon underneath the top weapon being a shitty reskin.
>>320594204
SL1 ganking in DaS was one of my favorite things to do in the game. All that hate mail. Fuck From for ever even thinking of removing it.
>>320594070
I've spent more time in DaS2 than you, so I can safely say DaS2 a shit.
These obviously exclude all the console playtime hours as well.
>>320594350
>he bought SotFS
>>320594314
please name specifics how.
people have already confirmed that Soul memory and casualized backstab/dodge system turns the game into roll simulator havelyn invasion edition.
how is DaS worse?
unless youve never invested time into DaS?
What was yout favorite gear and why?
Weapon?
pls anon, I want to seriously know
>>320594446
Eh, $10 to keep online alive.
Can't say it was worth it though.
The only correct choice is King's Field. All these underage kiddos think they're playing a good game but King's Field is objectively superior.
>>320594347
yee, nigga, worth suffering through 4 fags with a club for that sweet invasion orb.
Every faggot claiming you "twinked" too, all that hate makes it so worth it.
Lets not forget the indictment system thats totally useless. I have like over 120 indictments on my SL 1 character.
The depths is truly the most broken place to pyro, with the tiny halls....
>>320592391
I personally prefer 2.
Especially the PvP is miles better, just too bad it's harder to actually invade. You can still be an arenafag tho.
>>320594538
fug yoo, armored core superior, KID
>>320593014
Literally;
>How can't I faceroll this game? I was so good at DaS after playing it for a 100 hours
>This game is too difficult, 2/10 did not enjoy
You're a fucking baby.
>>320593542
DS has some of the most intense pvp. Especially if you're low on health and have made a lot of progress with out reaching the next bonfire
>>320594448
>Experienced much worse invasions in Das early level
>pvp In DaS solely relied around sitting outside of artorias fight at high level
>pvp in DaS relied much more on instant back stabs, Das 2 has the same problems but with parry baiting
>only memorable boss fights were manus, artorias, and smooth
> Estus drinking and rolling animations are incredibly clunker
>>320594594
I dunno, I remember when pvp in DaS1 would take forever and no one knew anything.
nowadays everyones memorized the hitbox of every weapon type, meaning its just PURELY roll punishing, and every weapn has the same hitbox...
unless you wanna use an infused katana with resonant weapon...
1 > Bloodborne > Demon's > 2
I enjoyed all of them to some extent though.
>>320594687
Still, they've got a valid point. Not even after hundreds of hours of playing the game would start to feel good to play.
>>320594186
If you actually have 2k hours into DaS and think DaS2 is bad, you're a fucking obsessive idiot.
>>320594568
>suffering through 4 fags with a club
That took me so fucking long, its probably why I spent so much time ganking. Had to prove to myself it was worth it (it definitely was).
>>320594687
DaS2 WAS faceroll:the game
LITERALLY roll through EVERY attack
Chain roll through 3 ruin sentinals attacks.
the main COMPLAINT about it ON RELEASE is it WAS and STILL IS too fucking easy and has 0 build variety because Soul memory requires you max level before ANYTHING else.
>>320593265
>DaS2 gameplay ranked better than any of the other games
>>320594727
Dark Souls III seems to be doing something interesting related to that. If you kill invaders, you're rewarded with more estus flasks. Seems like a really good way to balance out the difficulty of sudden attacker who probably ends up draining at least some HP from you.
DaSIII looks like it's turning out really good, I'm just worried about getting my hopes up and ending disappointed again.
>>320594770
The game is objectively better in gameplay.
The only reason people don't like it is because DaS was their babbies first Souls game and heavy nostalgia fagging.
I enjoyed 2 the most. I only finished DaS once because everything after Anor Londo is just pure shit.
>>320594687
DaS2 is complete fucking trash faggot.
I've spent 10 times that amount of time on DaS, I don't need to spend time on DaS2 to know it's complete fucking shit.
Suck a dick, bitch.
>>320594860
>Soul memory requires you max level before ANYTHING else.
That's complete bullshit
>>320594860
Yeah, that's why you couldn't get passed the first 15 minutes, because it was "too easy".
Stop kidding yourself. Also, stop capitalising random words. Your reddit is showing
>>320594794
No, DaS2 is just bad.
It just is.
>>320592391
Someone mentioned Dark Souls 2 is like those arcade games where you progress in one dimension.
Unlike Dark Souls 1 when it's an interconnected world
>>320592663
b8
>>320592391
PVP
DaS2>DaS>DeS
PvE
>DeS>DaS>DaS2
Can we all agree that the Souls franchise has by far the worst fanbase of any video game series? Yes even worse than Sonic.
>>320593265
>Spear mode souls
>ranks rapier turtle souls as #1
>>320594951
Kek, you're a massive autist aren't you.
DaS2 has flaws which can be argued, but the actual gameplay was objectively better from DaS. It's fine if you prefer DaS though, but stop being such a baby about it.
>>320594882
>the game is objectively better
According to what faggot? According to what standard? Yours? That isn't objective. Literally fucking kill yourself and don't ever use the word objectively again.
>>320594860
I don't think DaS2's too easy. Rather, there's only one good way to play, otherwise it ends up too difficult.
Shields are useless, your go-to tactic is ALWAYS dodging. So every build ends up with 20-25 ADP and the game feels extremely same-y.
And since you're not using shield, you might as well use two handed weapon. Especially since fighting with small arms just leads to hit trading with enemies, so you want something that staggers them right away. So you wear the stone ring.
There's very little reason to have anything BUT stone ring, third dragon ring and life ring + 3. If you go melee, ring of blades is your final ring all the time. And everyone goes melee.
>>320595049
If this were 2013 yes. The fanbase has really died down since DaS' PC release and DaS 2.
>>320595116
Again with this fucking objectively better bull shit.
No, it's not. If anything it's fucking worse. It's a complete garbage game.
Kill yourself you worthless shit stain.
>>320594882
Dark Souls II is objectively worse in gameplay though.
Poise makes no sense, the defense is imbalanced, the animations are more stiff, there's less control for the player.
All of these are much better reasons than "it's just DaS1 nostalgia" so I'm right.
>>320595049
>think dark souls 2 is better than dark souls 1
> DaS fans go on an autism fit
Yeah DaS is such a fucking gem with its 3 copies of the ass demon, bed of cheese, and moonlight butterfly
>>320595167
It has died down because the people who just like the series no longer want to be associated with the fanbase.
Neither do I, bunch of fucking condescending children.
>Demon's Souls = Wasteland game
>Dark Souls = Fallout 1
>Dark Souls 2 = Fallout 2
>Bloodborne = Fallout 4
>Dark Souls 3 = ???
>>320594753
>Experienced much worse invasions in Das early level
people deserve their SL 1 fun, after those runs...
Also, pyromancy easy as fuck to dodge, nigga.
>pvp In DaS solely relied around sitting outside of artorias fight at high level
no, because Im a darkwraith.
I'll invade EVERYWHERE.
forest is fine too, if you have a fucked up antigank build, like karmic justice
>pvp in DaS relied much more on instant back stabs, Das 2 has the same problems but with parry baiting
This kind of mentality is why from made that crappy jesters gear, man, and you can see how shitty it turned out.
Its also easy to see when someone is trying to backstab fish you, by approaching without attacking.
Thing is, they are vulnerable to R1 chainspam when they try to fish, as long as you arent against a gank squad, you are now fine, now that you know this.
>only memorable boss fights were manus, artorias, and smooth
fuck you, I liked sifs laggy asshole, and 4kings is always a riot at sl1.
> Estus drinking and rolling animations are incredibly clunker
estus is clunky to allow punishing.
wtf are you talking about with rolling though?
someone has never seen dark wood grain ring or ANY roll besides mid rolls.
faggot, go play the game
>>320594767
I can agree with this from a pvp/pve standpoint.
DeS remains most FUNsoft though, because broken broken broken broken
>>320595198
>the animations are more stiff in DaS II
Go drink an Estus flask in both games and say that again
>>320595123
More fluid controls, higher FPS, more variety, better PvP (guard break prevents turtling and backstab fishing, what DaS PvP was all about)
DaS2 is better in all those regards. Soul memory was shit though, but the Agape Ring kinda fixes it. Not being able to invade early on sucks balls though and also only cracked orbs.
>>320592391
Demons > Dark > BB >powergap> Dark 2
>>320595243
More like
>Demon's Souls = Wasteland game
>Dark Souls = Fallout 1
>Dark Souls 2 = Fallout 4
>Bloodborne = Fallout 2
>Dark Souls 3 = New Vegas (fingers crossed)
>there are people who don't see das2 for the cheap imitation moneygrab that it is
>>320594875
I really hope they combin ALL the things that made, DeS bb, DaS and DaS2 good, as well as improve server latency...
Invasions Better be Lvl based
>>320595198
>animations more stiff in DaS2
It's exactly the opposite you humongous faggot. I can fault DaS2 for a lot of things, but it was certainly not 'more stiff' than fucking DaS.
Are you literally blind or something?
This IS DaS nostalgia. How the fuck can you not see this?
>>320595273
Go redirect your attacks in DaS2.
You can't.
Go redirect an attack after roll in DaS2
You can't.
Go redirect your character after backstep into an attack in DaS2
You can't.
See, more stiff.
>>320595298
More fluid controls is the only correct point
Ds1 is 60fps if you download a mod and aren't poor. SM broke DS2 pvp on day one
>>320595180
>this mad somebody calls you out on your stupidity
You make me chuckle anon
>>320595362
see >>320595421
It was more stiff of the two.
The only instance where it wasn't was how you could roll more freely while locked on, but as you can see in >>320593812 it doesn't matter because diagonal rolls in Dark Souls 1 work just fine when you unlock.
In every other instance, Dark Souls 1 is less stiff to control.
>>320595348
Go read the design works for 2
it took a lot of hard work to make the game
>>320595268
Oh please, I got invaded maybe once by a dark wraith in my 100+ hours of DaS, and what the fuck are you talking about with jesters gear? Don't you mean ironclad armor? And roll-baiting only leads to more rolling which results in a tedious rolling cycle
>>320595323
This is pretty accurate, though I haven't played DeS or Wasteland
>>320595348
I just don't get it. The game is the pure essence of a rushed, cobbled together mess released ASAP to maximize profits.
>>320595456
That mod breaks the fucking game though, so no thank you.
And SM broke DS2 pvp not on day one, but after a week or so when people realised they were too high a level to be in range for PvP.
The Agape ring kinda fixed that though. It's still not perfect, but it works.
>>320594974
>>320594998
platted the base game.
it was too easy.
Also, if you intend on any weapon levelling or variety in armor through grindint, that bumps you SM up several million, even at best drop rates, since you will always need the base souls for upgrading every weapon through blacksmith.
trust me I know because Im ocd about getting all the weapons and armors, even though its an unneccessary thing.
Its SOOOO much fun randomly connecting to people who are just as eaily SL 700+ as people who are just 120.
it makes every fight either too easy or ridiculously improbable.
lastly, is "le reddit xdd" the only comeback you have?
at least defend your game with concrete evidence, anon.
I don't get the pvp in dark souls 2 at least in 1 poise enable you to build a good build around armour, but it seens that you need to use buffs to get any real damage when making a balanced build and i get fuckd at elitist ds2 pvp arena people, dark souls 1 also had easier parrying similar to bloodborne and i hope they bringing back simplified rolling instead of bullshit adaptability and damage scaling.
>>320595116
lel no.
stop baiting, you retard.
unless you aren b8ing which makes you a newbabby
>>320595589
Broke? It fixes it
>>320595237
Yeah, the only time Souls discussion isn't completely fucking awful is when it's a new player asking for help and a proper thread actually gets going before the gitgud fags arrive, or that one-in-a-million Bloodborne thread that isn't shitposted into oblivion by people mad that it's an exclusive.
I miss the Demon's Souls/very early Dark Souls threads. Sure there was memespouting and stuff, but most people were pretty chill and didn't act like shits, because we were all just getting caught up in the game. I want to have that again with DaS3 but I feel like jackasses will just carry over the shitty elitism and THE GAME I LIKE IS BETTER THAN THE GAME YOU LIKE dickwaving from current DaS/DaS2 discussions.
Soul memory was fucking retarded and a clear sign how out of touch they were with the community.
>>320595645
Have you actually used it? So many fucking glitches, it's fucking insane.
>>320595520
Kill yourself.
>>320595674
Blame Shibuya, it was his decision.
>>320595615
In Dark Souls 2, when you take a hit, it takes 20 seconds of not taking any hits for your poise to reset.
The similar time in Dark Souls 1 is one second and then you start to regain your balance. The poise itself works like an invisible stamina meter, if it's drained you stagger, and after one second of not taking any hits you start to recover it at a quick speed.
I'm not kidding. Every Havelmonster after an initial hit has zero poise for a while.
>>320595673
The entire discussion is mostly DaS nostalgia fags pretending DaS2 is worse than shit and actual fans of the series who liked DaS2 try to reason with them and saying it's a good game.
I guess it's no use.
>>320595140
ahh, thank you, that was the point I was going for.
no build variety.
I think Soul memory further fucked up all builds to the point of excluding everything but the same build like you said, but on a deeper level, the base mechanics of stats affecting dodge.
I feel that 4 rings may have been too much.
it was variety to the point only one possible combination could succeed
I need to finish DeS before I make a souls list so at the moment
>PVE (Bosses)
BB>DaS>DaS2
My favorite bosses in the series were in Bloodborne. Dark Souls had a couple of great bosses in the base game and a couple great ones in the DLC. Dark Souls 2 had pretty bland bosses supplemented by a good amount of great bosses in the DLC
>PVE (normal enemies)
DaS>BB>DaS2
DaS had the most "fair" enemies. BB enemies can be cheaper and feel like they one-shot you more often but were fun to fight. DaS2 enemies weren't really fun to fight, more tedious than challenging.
>Gameplay variety
DaS2>DaS>>BB
Both Dark Souls games give a great variety of ways you can play the game with Dark Souls 2 coming out ahead with the addition of things like power-stancing not to mention all the new weapons and spells. Most weapons and play styles feel very same-ish in Bloodborne, I haven't finished the DLC yet so I'm not sure if this changes.
>Level Design
BB>=DaS>DaS2
Bloodborne had all the cool shortcuts and cool flowing levels but a lot of levels felt very same-y. Dark Souls had some great levels with some bad ones mixed in. I didn't really enjoy any level in Dark Souls 2 until the DLC levels which were all wonderful other than the Frigid Outskirts.
>OST
BB>DaS>DaS2
Bloodborne has some amazing themes like those of Gerhman's or Ludwig's. Dark Souls has a couple of standout tracks like Gwyn's theme. Nothing really stood out to me in Dark Souls 2; the only song I can remember liking is the Ruin Sentinel theme.
I still really liked Dark Souls 2 though, just not as much as the other games.
>>320595713
With the way your blood pressure is going, I'm pretty sure you are the one killing yourself my friend
>>320592391
replaying 1 right now, kinda just like 2 for the general gameplay improvements
1 had better bosses and level design though, kinda a hard matchup
>>320592451
You can if you try hard enough >>320595158
>>320595645
No it doesn't. Gravity's affected, and therefore certain physics, fall damage, fall speed as well.
Poise recovery's affected, giving players with higher FPS much easier time to recover from stunlocks.
Higher FPS makes reaching backstabs harder. That's part of the reason why the duels on PC are less backstab-focused than on consoles.
Since damage is dealt in tick/frame, you might end up taking double damage from certain lingering attacks as well.
Did DaS2 have stunlock breaks like 1 did with weapon swapping?
I remember stun locking people from 100 to death with dual lances.
>>320595783
I don't see why DaS fans have to be suchhotheadsabout their opinions and have an autism manchild fit whenever anyone disagrees with it
>>320595140
>blatantly ignoring hexes, sorcery and dual wielding as viable builds
>also implying shields are actually useless and swoard and board is somehow not a viable option anymore
Anon, I'm not sure you even played the game
>>320595674
What is Soul Memory
I literally just downloaded SOTFS and i'm now scared to play it after reading this thread
>>320595851
Kill yourself.
>>320595931
Read the thread. They spend 1k or 2k hours on the game, and when DaS2 came out, it wasn't exactly the same and they got their shit slapped again, so the game is bad.
It's that simple.
>it's different so I don't like it
>>320593038
This is the best.
BB>DeS>DaS>DS2>SOTFS
>>320595950
The game basically tracks every soul you've ever picked up, and that's what's used for co-op/PvP matchmaking rather than just your level like in the earlier games.
It's kind of dumb, although if you don't care about PvP it's not much of a problem.
>>320595421
yeah, it felt way too arcade-y
>>320595541
>what the fuck are you talking about with jesters gear? Don't you mean ironclad armor
either or.
honestly, jesters is more common, especially by katanafags using low weight builds for RoBFlynn builds.
>And roll-baiting only leads to more rolling which results in a tedious rolling cycle
This is 90% of pvp in DaS2, is panic-rolling and roll punishing by both parties.
You'd have to be fucking stupid to get parry baited though.
that backstep and 1 handing of a weapon is so obvious, of course murakumo is also a telltale sign.
gg no re, the same tedious crap every invasion
>>320595997
You've literally gone into repeat?
Okay then, have a nice day man. Hope to discuss DaS with you on another day.
>>320596020
this doesn't even make sense, the souls fanbase masturbates at the idea of difficulty
>>320595937
Sure, I had plenty of fun with my Dark Rapier/Estoc with buff, but I'm still using the same ringset for them.
And why would you use shield? If you block, you can't attack. In DeS and DaS1 blocking didn't throw you back, lock you into an animation for an hour nor drain all your stamina, so it was actually useful instead of just dodging all the time.
Roll can be used to position yourself favorably instead, doesn't drain your stamina and if it weren't for the animation locks could be used to chain into an attack. Blocking just prevents damage but gets you nowhere so it's useless when you can also prevent that same damage with roll every time.
>>320596084
Hopefully not because you'll take me up on my advice.
>>320595950
Soul Memory is a separate stat from soul level. It's a record of all the souls you've accumulated and it's what online uses for pairing with co-op and invasions.
Basically everytime you get souls, your soul memory goes up as well. Regardless of whether or not you actually used those souls for leveling.
SOTFS added a ring that halts SM from going up at the cost of repairs and consumables. SM is mostly a problem if you stay on one character for too long and want to stay at a certain SL for build reasons.
2 is borderline unplayable. Who's bright idea was it to make every encounter a tedious 1 vs 4 scenario? It doesn't help hat the animations are fucking complete garbage. Have you seen that parry animation? It's absolutely pathetic.
>>320596140
>If you block, you can't attack
Ignorant fool.
>>320596084
You're retarded.
>>320595762
yeah, its why RoBflynn is the meta, and heavy armor is useless at even boosting your goddamn defense.
Put SM on top of that, and thats why I still play DeS and DaS instead of DaS2.
its ironic that the hyperarmor poise of DeS is superior to the heaviest havel in DaS2
I have played DAS1 a couple of times and now playing DAS2 for the first time.
From what I've seen of it so far it's ok with the exception of the game liking to throw multiple of the same enemies at you at once all the time.
>>320596124
Not when they think they've risen above "normies" and practically broke the game.
Then they have to start all over again and the shitposting begins.
Didn't you see all the threads when the game released? Artificial difficulty was probably the most used word on /v/ around that time.
>>320596078
>gg no re
How's middle school champ? Anyways pvp in both games is panic-rolling and roll punishing by both parties, thinking that DaS invasions were "epic duels" between both parties is bullshit. It's the same cheap shit in both games except DaS was easier with the easier to achieve backstabbing
>>320596020
but I played DaS2 first and prefer DaS and DeS more.
how do you explain that?
I never got into the Souls series until 2014
>>320596072
>>320596214
Ok thanks
What build did you guys run during SOTFS if you don't mind me asking
>>320595950
PVP and co-op doesn't work off of your level +/- 10% anymore but instead works off of tiers of the amount of souls you've earned. In theory its supposed to prevent twinking but it's fucked up co-op and stuff. Makes it hard to play with people your level if you're like me and upgrade and test out a lot of different weapons and like to help people fight bosses. There's a ring you can get that stops you from absorbing souls
>>320596227
lel, bonewheel sheild, pierce shield and butterfly shield in DaS were superior attacking shields
>>320596317
the fun part is that it ignores ACTUAL twinks and instead punishes people who remain at SL1.
THANKS B TEAM THANKS B TEAM THANKS B TEAM THANKS B TEAM
Pointless annoying bullshit like pic related and the fucking group aggro stairs of tedium in Dragon Shrine are why DaS2 will never be anything more than a disappointment for me.
>>320592391
Vanilla Dark Souls 1 is better than vanilla DaS2 by a long shot.
That being said, the Dark Souls 2 DLCs are much better than the Dark Souls 1 DLC.
>>320596313
Just a heads up the DLC scales with Soul Memory. If you want to wreck the PVE get either a strike weapon. I ran my first strength build recently and clubs rip through enemies (there's tons of knights everywhere and they're weak to it). Large club and the great club have a pancake attack that you can cheese normal enemies or npc invaders with.
>>320596482
Then there's some places you can't even pull one enemy at a time consistently like in the Dark Chasm and they all come rushing at you at once spamming spells
>>320596446
Yep, I've had tons of twinks invade me in early game in Dark Souls II.
Once, I tried to make a low SM build myself and it was not much harder than SL1 builds would be.
The reason SM doesn't work is because bad players keep wasting souls and elevating their soul memory, but good players keep it low. So the good, strong players can keep invading the bad players who are still struggling in the beginning and have no access to good gear.
It should be something like, how much souls you've spent on leveling & your current gear, and then maybe prevent the invader from changing gear once they invade. People who invade are almost always the more skilled players anyways, so they can work with a drawback like that. There could be separate place for balanced duels, and it shouldn't be the same as the regular invasions that people do just to harass the people who try to progress.
>>320596259
Nah, DaS 1 has more grounded approach to combat, relying more on proper positioning.
Shields are actually usable, because shield break critical doesnt exist in DaS1, meaning, hey look, theres a usable feature.
it allows turtling and turtle punishing as a viable combat feature.
always carry a shotel, my niggas.
furthermore, rolling isnt the way you need to deal with 90% of shit in DaS, unlike DaS2.
Midrolling WILL get you backstabbed.
Nijarolling can end with you getting punished just as easily.
you need to be careful with rolls, unlike DaS2, where Agility saves your asshole.
hell, you also could parry anything in DaS, meaning the influence of player reading and skill puts the gap way higher than DaS2, where you cant parry 2handed great weapons, rendering shields even MORE useless in DaS2.
tl;dr
DaS2 removed viable combat features, making the said game duller than the previous installment
>>320596541
remonds me of using a club to hit skeletons in the graveyard, or pierce weapons in DeS world 2.
Love the throwback to damage types
>>320592391
Dark Souls is the better game and I like it more.
But Dark Souls 2 is a bit more fun to play right now, due to the modernized port and the sheer amount of added/extra content is has partly made up for the fact it is a soulless imitation of a souls game.
But the true follow-up to Dark Souls is coming out in a few months so DS2 will be irrelevant anyway.
>>320596726
>always carry a shotel, my niggas.
I favor black flame, actually.
>45dex
>tfw you throw over havel's greatshield
The good thing about DaS1 PvP was that defending was reliable when you knew wh0at you were doing. I'm going to point at my own webm again but that's how finishing a whole fight with no health is possible >>320593812
>>320592391
2 has some good things that 1 failed to include, like cloth physics, respec and friend co-op
but overall 1 is better at what it does
>>320596313
I used a quality build with the Grand Lance at the time, mainly because you just find it lying around really early on in SotFS instead of obnoxiously well-hidden in a late-game area like in the original, so it seemed like a nice excuse to use it.
Later I switched to a retarded build power-stancing a Smelter Sword and an Aged Smelter Sword and spamming overpowered orange & blue explosions everywhere, because it was fucking hilarious.
>>320596818
the amount of weapons, as often as they may carry the same hitbox, will never fail to be sexy.
I wont ever give up my ruin sentinal armor, mirrah shield, or drakekeepers warpick, as unviable as it is.
>>320596343
From the design standpoint? Maybe, that's just, like, your opinion man.
But mechanically pure shieldbashing is more viable (if its ever viable) in DaS2. Source: I'm a turboautist that has been playing with a shield-only build since autumn 2014. Never used any other build ever since.
Sanctum shield has excellent defences, deals 450 damage a hit and has great tracking. You can roll behind people and hit them in the back
O&R deal a shitload of damage and have slightly more than 360 degree tracking. They're also pretty bugged, from time to time your left hand will automatically flinch and do a super-quick block of an incoming attack (doesnt even matter if it's a spell) WHILE powerstanced, which makes zero sense, since you can't block with your left shield while powerstance. This block also negates ALL incoming damage, because hail jap coding, and has zero stamina consumption. So yes, legit fucking invincible, what an coincidence. The only good thing is this kind of shit occurs randomly and is pretty rare, otherwise you'd see people complaining all over the place. Still hilarious when it happens.
Sorry m80 but you can't out-autism me.
>>320596836
>that 420 damage 27 seconds in
the closeness of fights was great, especially when a single stat allocation in health could save your ass
>>320596898
I recently went back to Dark Souls and got really bummed out seeing how the Claymore sits properly on your shoulder with or without armor and how you hold it differently and it shifts about as you walk/run, while also having a giant fucking sheath for it on your back.
But in DS2, no sheath, hovers about 10 inches off your shoulder at all times, doesn't animate or move as you walk, looks like shit in general.
So I've gone back to resenting DS2 for the time being, the DS2 director sucks ass.
>>320597034
firstly, those big numbers mean nothing when ALL the numbers in the said game are larger then its predecessor.
DaS2, people regularly have 2000-3000 health, unless youve agape ringed your way through your playthrough.
I still remember bonewheel shiteld moveswapping with any weapon in the game, and crystal ring shield 1-shotting people pre-patch.
Shields doing high damage in each respective game is nothing new, and your build is not a unique snowflake.
as a matter of fact, a majority of the shield attack implementation in DaS2 was carried over from DaS1. you can thank DaS for your build now, unless you wanna go back FURTHER and thank DeS for tower shield rush attacks, because it was a thing even back in 2009.
>>320597065
Thats the ony reason I use Zwei and other ultra greatswords in DaS2, instead of Claymore, even though claymore is clearly more flexible.
About the only good things DS2 gave us in terms of combat is better rolling and overall NPC combat AI, which given the huge leap in AI quality between Vanilla DS2 and DS2 SOFTS, it was probably based on Bloodborne's anyway.
>>320597551
I canagree with that, although lucatial is certainly more stupid than a certain iron knight to this day
>>320597645
oops, wrong pic
![holy_moonlight_sword_ingame[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xALRmcP.jpg "holy_moonlight_sword_ingame[1].jpg")
>>320597486
UGS just feel a lot better than GS in general in 2. I mean, they're still not very good if you're a PvP player, but for the most part they're just straight-up better if you can get used to using them, and there are a lot more unique ones. There are only a couple GS that are really good, especially if you discount the DLC. It annoys me because I like GS more than UGS but kind of had to move to UGS for DaS2.
The Bloodborne DLC made miracles happen though, mashing the DaS1 Claymore together with the Moonlight Greatsword to make the single most amazing fucking weapon in the Goddamn franchise. If DaS3 has a weapon even half as perfect I will cum buckets.
>>320597715
This was fucking magical.
Does DaS2 have qt traps?and Im not talking about mimics
DaS-1
DaS2- 0
>>320597846
How would you build for it? STR/ARC?
>>320597846
i was amazed that they made moonlight greatsword so viable.
is the first time Ive ever thought of really using it.
hell, even in DeS, though it went through shields and ignored them, greataxe was still better.
BB just turned my head upside down.
Then again, Moonlight greatsword SHOULD be a just reward for killing Ludwigger
>>320592391
Dark Souls 2 is a good souls game.
>>320597862
the fact that he can do it repeatedly as well is a testament not only to his AI, but tarkus' ironclad will of steel itself.ironic that he himself would die from a fall just like the one that killed the golem
>>320598046
It was pretty damn good in DaS too. Pure magic damage, S scaling and not much STR/DEX investment.
>>320597989
Mostly. Although you have to make a bit of a decision because STR affects the actual damage of the weapon a lot more (even in the Moonlight Greatsword form the physical damage is a lot higher than the arcane damage) but you need ARC for the projectile attacks to do good damage. And by far the best damage you can do with it comes from hitting with the projectiles and sword simultaneously, so you want those projectiles to be good.
>>320597910
gwndolin is mai hasubando
>>320596482
Don't forget the Crypt leading up to Velstadt.
One of my favorite zones in the game completely ruined by that stupid fucking hallway that's nothing but a shitton of knights
>>320598181
Tarkus was hilariously bad as a PvP summon though. Sen's Funhouse was one of my favorite invasion locations but I lost count of the number of times I kicked Tarkus off the thin walkway right after some pussy ass bitch ran and summoned him.
>>320598505
golems seems to be one thing... people however....
no wonder he died in a room full of ninjas
>people think 2 is better than 1
>>320593812
Giantdad players are lame. they're the kinds of guys who say sorceries are cheap, but use a stunlock sword. It's so much more fun being a dex sorcerer.
>all these buttblasted miyazaki fanboys responding to every poster who said that he liked DaS2
Truly, there is no thing more immature, retarded and ignorant of game design than a miyazaki fanboy.
I can tell that you guys are probably red with anger every time you see a positive post about DaS2.
>>320598792
>stunlock sword
>he can't into toggle escape
Cry more.
>>320598792
>stunlock sword
>not knowing how to toggle escape
hang yourself
>Pre patch Shrine of Amana
>>320598860
>>320598887
I have no problems with stunlock swords. But Afro straight up said that its used on the giantdad build to stunlock.
>>320598934
If someone can't even toggle escape, they'd lose straight up in a fight anyways, stunlock or not.
>>320598934
im going to refer to my previous statement >>320598887
From a technical standpoint, gameplay and enemy / visual design it's DaS 2, everything else is DaS.
>>320598752
He probably fell off the rafters.
>>320592391
Depends on what you like. Most people will go with Dark Souls, but I enjoyed both Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2. If you play online and/or enjoy lore, Dark Souls is your go-to. If you like offline fun (6-7/10 fun) with cool scenery, Dark Souls 2 may be for you. In addition, I thought Dark Souls 2 had some pretty cool DLC.
Playtime Dark Souls: 76:44: something
Playtime Dark Souls 2: 81:10 or something
>>320597395
>3000 health
Only possible on a lvl 838 character with life ring +3 and third dragon ring. Exactly 3096 hp.
1800-2300 is the actual average HP pool on currently alive pvp hotspots. To get higher HP than that you'd either have to sacrifice some other stats (which is perfectly fine and balanced), or get pushed into higher SM tiers, and high SM tiers are dead as fuck. So, noone does that.
>Shields doing high damage in each respective game is nothing new, and your build is not a unique snowflake.
I am the uniquest snowflake of them all, you don't know me.
>pre-patch
Irrelevant, then.
>a majority of the shield attack implementation in DaS2 was carried over from DaS1
Well good thing DaS2 finally gave some shields good tracking, to finally make shield builds less shit!
I mean, really, Sanctum Shield also outclasses both Pierce Shield (by having better magical resistances) and Crystal Ring Shield (by having better physical reisstances). And it's also a catalyst, so you can buff your other shield with Strong Magic Shield! And O&R is completely unique to DaS2.
But yeah, in general I'm pretty hyped for the obligatory shield weapon that's gonna be in DaS3. Also shield weapon arts. By the looks of it shieldbashing is getting better and better with each game.
>>320599045
I don't know why you're going in circles. I'll repeat once. I don't usually get hit. But that shit is designed to stunlock. I play a lightweight sorcerer. fatdads can't compete with grain ring, soulmass, and dark bead. I do backflips around them.
>>320599324
>dark wood grain ring
>dark magic
holy shit
>>320599396
>minmaxer giantdad
>criticizing dark magic
Get out of your losers mindset
http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/26/domination-101-you-can-lead-a-scrub-to-water-but-you-cant-make-em-think/
>>320599469
>implying I pvp as giantdad
>>320599570
Posted the wrong link. There's this really good one describing how it's a scrub mindset to go against "cheap" tactics. Oh well. You get the idea.
Whats your build nigga?
>>320599324
>fatdads can't compete with grain ring
All you have to do is catch them at the end of the roll. Unless you play locked it's not too big of a disadvantage.
Besides, a build like that is incredibly vulnerable to kata/bss flippers.
>>320599661
That's true. Dark magic isn't really as bullshit as people think it is. There's always a hard counter to something. Most Dark Souls players I run into are usually heavy fighters, so they're not prepared for magic bullshit.
>>320599642
here you go
>>320598343
fuck you doll is superior
>>320599834
That looks like a really fun build. Also its what an endgame deprived should look like to me. You don't use that weird force spell though. Most 30 faith people I see use it.
>>320599785
Yeah, lack of versatility is the biggest flaw of the most players.
What's truly hard to counter in DaS1 is pursuers because of the lag. It doesn't help that a ton of people cast 'em, wait until someone invades(so they're invisible to the invader) and then just try to bumrush them with all the torrents on. Which is just boring, but one of the few actually one-sided tricks.
>>320599846
>Shadman
Why
>>320599964
I actually prefer crystal soulmass to pursuers. Whats really bullshit though is the crystal breath thing. It lags she shit out of my computer, and I have a pretty great card.
>>320599846
fuck you havel is best hasubandoo
>>320599846
A God vs a Doll
I'll take my husband any day of the week.
>>320599951
the build started as a joke and ended as my main pvp build
>>320600156
It's surprising how well pvp goes when you're not minmaxing. I kind of just went around with the witch set and basically pve stats.
>>320600035
I can imagine. I'm pretty sure because of retarded japanese coders, the net code is updated once per frame or something, so lag creates big disadvantage(as if magic desync wasn't bad enough).
The reason Dark Souls runs so poorly on PC is because it offloads tons of shit to CPU instead of GPU. This made sense on PS3 and 360 where the old GPUs were already at limits but where both systems had relatively good CPUs and it ended up stabilizing the FPS instead, but on PC it's always best to save as much CPU time as possible, otherwise you can get unexpected lag while the GPU doesn't even break a sweat.
What this means though, is if you can overclock your CPU the game should start running visibly smoother, even with just minor increments.
>>320599846
>shitman
>>320600267
>>320600156
I think part of the reason "joke" builds work so well is because people are not used to playing against them. Normal Scythe proved to be a pretty good weapon as well despite the limited moveset, and part of that was probably because no one was used to avoiding its moveset. It's a really rare weapon to see even though it has excellent damage.
>>320600310
Good to know. I'm always a bit of a pussy when it comes to clocking since I have to use Autodesk products. When they're overclocked too badly, it could crash your entire computer when you do a mentalray render
>>320600267
as far as minmaxing goes this was the most filthy one i could come up with while being fun.
>>320592391
1
2 would have been better if its overall combat didnt blow ass. Their attempts to "fix" the fact that people could kite, circle, and dodge enemies was by making them aimbot the enemy melee attacks to just be undodgable.
which unlike bloodborne has just accepted that as a part of the gameplay
>>320600109
same
>>320599284
>finally gave shields good tracking
pls, anon, shields have always benefitted from large area of effect and tracking on-par with str weapons since DeS.
Also, the entirety of your build sounds ripped off from limit breakers youtube channel....
unless you ARE the guy that makes those limit breaker videos.
>implying people in Soulmemory tiers above 10 mill or so arent all lvl 900+.
they are, thay all are, anon. like I said, agape ring, thank god for that.
>>320598894
that's nothing, try pre patch lost sinner ng+
Both are gucci shit.
>>320601653
That was with the black phantoms right? Fun times.
>>320601112
>and tracking
Do you know what tracking even is, man? It's when your attack follows the opponent even if they roll to the side.
Like go ahead and watch XSkulled's video on his Shieldus build and say that these things have something to compare to actual 360 degree tracking, where you can initiale the attack, make a 360 degree turn, and land the attack exactly where you initiated it. Or anywhere around you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHeIKqlM0ZE
>Also, the entirety of your build sounds ripped off from limit breakers youtube channel....
Have you played Dark Souls 2? Cause by the looks of it you never heard of neither Orma Reeves greatshields nor the Sanctum Shield or Crossbow Shield. And LimitBreaker's Gravel the Block only uses Gyrm Greatshield with Shield of the Insolent.
Gravel is also a joke build.
>they are, thay all are, anon. like I said, agape ring, thank god for that.
They are not, after level 200 it's SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive to level up, and you get very little in return. Thats why lvl 150-200 is the "meta" range. And as you can imagine, 10 mil is not nearly enough to be max level.
No offense but you're starting to lose credibility here. Your knowledge of the game seems to be very shallow.
>>320592663
yes, you got newst to oldest right
>>320593894
I agree with this guy
>>320594446
>he didn't play SotFS
>>320595323
what a shitty comparison and what a shitty opinion
>>320598417
Uhhhh games too hard :(( i dun like it
>>320598785
because it IS
Dark Souls 1 was an unbalanced piece of shit whose only good thing is the map connection.
But like all of you should know souls games are not about doing nice map but doing a balanced gameplay to make a challenging game fun.
Dks1 didn't have this. Dks2 did.
>>320602792
>>320598894
>>320601653
please tell me they've patched ng+ flexile sentry
DeS/DaS/BB are great, DaS2 is good.
>>320602191
yess, there are multiple types of tracking too.
DeS had tracking in any angle in front of you, DaS had more tracking in 180 degrees, while DaS2 completely broke it with balls on 360 tracking.
>Orma Reeves greatshields
trash
>Sanctum Shield
decent
> Crossbow Shield
really fucking trash.
limit breakers featured em all
It was a typo, meant 100 mill.
Significantly more expensive levels dont mean shit when people are getting mass souls from fight clubs and ng+++++
>>320602191
>>320599284
everyones heard of them and sanctum shield spam and chime shields have been spammed on ps3 bridge forever now shut up, autist, you aint original for using a weapon thats in a vidyagame.
>>320602191
maybe I'll just 1 shot everything with sanctum crossbow.
how does these shields stand up to it?
I don't understand the hate towards Dark Souls II. I held off on buying it until Scholar came out, just because I knew they'd put out a "GOTY" version. When I first went into it I was expecting something worse than Dark Souls I, but I found myself enjoying it a bit more than the first.
Like, I just don't get it. Was the pre-Scholar release really bad or something? Because I can't see anything horribly wrong with the game.
>>320592391
Who the hell in Darksouls weilds the shield on the right hand and sword on the left
3 > 1 > BB > Demons > 2
>>320606796
in das2, legit lefthanded fags, ambidextrous fags, and artorias greatsword fags.
>>320606929
hopefully, anon, hopefully.
>>320606298
yeah, prerelease pre dlc was absolutely shit.
all the good points you've experienced in the game are most likely the dlc areas, plus you get better weapons in the dlc, as well better balance, after they worked out all the kinks from the original.
no fixing SM though, or the high level dueling as result. the best you can hope for is someone being honorable and staying at lvl 120-125, instead of save-editting to max level, or just plain levelling there manually.
At leas From fixed their servers to detect level discrepancies now, but the occasional throwaway hack account still gets through
>>320599846
god that art is bad
>>320606796
Arty
>>320604120
nah, they did put the ninja bros outside of that fight though so they aren't as much of a pain to farm for their gear
DaS>>BB>>DaSII
If they'd actually made Bloodborne a consistent challenge it would be:
DaS=BB>>>>DaSII
>>320592391
simple answer
DS 2
better and working pvp
better and more content
better graphic
better bosses
negative
-same story elements
-colorless npcs
-ng+ should be choose able option from start since ng is actually weak like in ds 1
>>320605740
>DeS had tracking in any angle in front of you, DaS had more tracking in 180 degrees, while DaS2 completely broke it with balls on 360 tracking.
We're talking about shields, and you said that DaS1 shields are more suitable for fighting, remember? And DaS shields did not have 180 degree tracking.
>Orma Reeves greatshields
>trash
Name greatshields more suitable for using as a weapon, from any of the games.
>Crossbow Shield
>really fucking trash
It's a shit shield but it has the highest damage amongst crossbows in the entire game when fully upgraded, excluding sanctum crossbow special attack, which consumes slightly less than 1/4th of your durability bar. Otherwise it's basic attack is the strongest, numerically.
>limit breakers featured em all
That is factually incorrect.
>>320606009
Even if you think I'm showing off, that's not the point. Guy said DaS1 shields are more viable in PvP than DaS2 ones. I think I did a pretty good job at debunking that.
That's all there is to this silly argument, to be honest.
>>320606091
Hope you got that Brass Knuckle Ring.
>how does these shields stand up to it?
They're not good against long-ranged stuff, even though they can soak up a lot of damage, both physical and elemental.
From my experience I'd say that fighting spears and lances is the hardest. Even harder than reapers.
>>320607564
I've been enjoying each area equally for the most part. I think my least favorite is the Sunken King DLC, but even then it's not too bad. The soul memory system is probably my least favorite aspect of the game. I much preferred matchmaking based on levels.
>>320608810
>-colorless npcs
Maldron the Ass is the best NPC invader in the series fight me.
1 is great game with very good level design and high replayability because the start of the game is so nice and you can build any char you want without huge problems.
2 is mehh, no leven design, look her new area, kill the things and move on, the Art Style is not that good, Soul Memory ist just dumb, to much patches.
But the main point i like DS1 more than DS2 are the bosses, in DS2 for me the bosses just feel to similar and there are to much humaniods. I Like the DS1 bosses a lot more.
dsfix keeps crashing my game
I've tried changing .ini settings, uninstalling & reinstalling, running in compatibility mode & disabling DEP
what the fuck do I do
Will people finally forget about 2 once 3 releases?
>>320609071
NO i most certainly did NOT say DaS shields were more suited for fighting.
I said that the feature has been there since the start, and that each game has had equivalent builds and weapons of equal use and identical performance in each game, respectively. I also said to thank DaS and even DeS for the feature you are currently using.
stop shoving words in my mouth, anon.
see my posts
>>320601112
>>320597395
this post here, >>320596343
is not my post, anon, but I wanted to chime in. maybe that was a mistake.
Orma and reeves has shit range, and even the most braindead motherfucker can roll out or backstep out of it. only gankers have used it with any success. Either havels, sanctum, or gyrm greatshields are/were a better choice, at least on bridge back when I used to play. Orma Reeves gets you roll BS-d badly
as for the original point that started this whole chain of posts
moveswapping with bonewheel IS broken, but in fact you arent relying purely on a shield at that point, so its moot, if we're talking pure shield bashing damage alone.
furthermore, stunlock in DeS and DaS is stronger, but DaS2 has decent follow up lunges.
in the end the shield builds all get the same thing done, but in DaS2 you are inclined to get shield broken and outranged by op magic.
then again, its the same in all games.
