Who's your favourite video game scholar/essayist/critic/content creator?
>Kike Koopa gets shit on again
Feels good
>as a country
doesnt gaijin goomba live in japan ? why is he pretending to be american
>video game scholar
>>320494907
Not a fan of longform read over video game footage I gather
>>320494262
I'm not a fan of Kamiya, but he's taking the perfect approach to SJWs and random retards on twitter
Blocked.
>>320495395
My interpretation is that he doesn't take medium he works in too seriously, he knows that gameplay comes before anything else and throws in aesthetics that mean something to him as sugar coating.
Plus he's a salaryman so unlike western indie scene and whatnot he does not need to suck up to clickbaiter of the week.
>>320494262
Jeff Gerstmann because he's probably the closest thing there is to a video game historian. You can ask him about any game and he knows his shit.
>>320495395
That's not the perfect approach. That's the SJW approach.
Blocking people you disagree with and creating echo chambers is the reason you get shit like SJWs in the first place. If they said half the shit they say in the real world they'd get ripped to shreds, but so-called safe spaces mean that they are unanimously agreed with and it furthers their own delusions. Same shit happens on infinity chan with gamer gaters.
>>320495541
Yeah pretty much he's just trying to make fun things and get hot girls to talk to him. He gives no shit about gaming's culture.
>>320495604
nah
>>320495686
Actually Kamiya is quite passionate about gaming culture. He just isn't about the modern big bang theory le so geeky gamer culture. He has a huge collection of classic arcade machines. I'll find you the documentary.
Gaijin Goombah is just the most annoying youtuber of all time and I don't know how people cite him.
>>320494907
pop culture critique is fun to watch sometimes though.
>>320495686
>>320495767
Here you go.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/09/15/ign-presents-inside-devil-may-cry-creator-hideki-kamiyas-secret-arcade
It's the video at the top.
>>320495767
No I mean he only likes games. He doesn't care about justifying it.
>>320495686
I think he gives no shit about third rate pseudo collegiate essays youtubers have started to shit out after let's player scene got too crowded to get noticed.
>Deus Ex from the Jacobin perspective: A Revolution by any other name
>Is Viewtiful Joe an anti-hero? LudditeScholarismus takes aim at inherent tropes in Japanese culture
etc etc
>>320495853
I have never stumbled on anyone dealing with video games that could write. I'm not talking about presenting an argument gathered from wikipedia sources or reading out a simplistic timeline / info, I'm talking about writing good prose no matter what the stance is. There isn't even someone like Lester Bangs was in music, no semi-outsider loving video games and writing well enough about them. Zilch.
Best you can get are these no talent faggots like that Austin from giantbait etc.
Hideo Kojima.
>>320496048
You're not looking in the right places then. Either that or you're being extremely pompous about what constitutes good prose.
>>320496208
Please give me an example of good writing related to video games
>>320496287
Hardcore Gaming 101
>>320496287
MASTERS OF DOOM
>>320496287
>criticism
>prose
What. In what universe is any form of criticism considered prose? Criticism isn't supposed to be about flowery language that flows well and is pleasing to read, it's about impressions and facts.
>>320496048
good prose and bad prose are a matter of personal taste. Perhaps you have unrealistic expectations.
>>320494262
japanese phil fish
>>320496421
Anecdotal journalism
>>320496410
Go away you fucking no taste retard
>>320496453
>objectivity
Who gives a fuck about facts about video games, just google those. Do you think movie critics write like that?
>this movie was made in year so and so filmed with this and that premiered here and there and earned this much when adjusted to inflation blah blah
you must jerk off to those facts.
>>320496678
Oh, sure thing. I'm certain that Rothfuss writes better than Gene Wolfe if your inclination tells you so. Fucking pleb tier faggot.
>>320496742
Like I said, pompous. Probably has an english degree and struggles for relevance in the modern world. Inferiority complex compounded by his unemployment.
>>320495825
Oh god i went to best buy one day just to pick up some batteries and i overheard some fucking random fuckwad talking about the fungus fucker like he was some prophetic messiah or something.
>>320496840
You should be reading Lacan
>>320496910
Already did, and it didn't turn me into a jerkoff. Imagine that.
>>320497003
SAVAGE
>>320496742
>it's about impressions and facts.
>FACTS WHO CARES ABOUT FACTS
I also said impressions, you moron. And facts are an important part of reviews. Like the fact that a game can be completely in 2 hours, but costs $60 - that's a fact that will put me off from buying it.
But no, apparently you want high fucking literature in game reviews. What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>320496808
>>320496742
I could cut the pretension with a knife
Fuck I hate gaijin goomba so fucking much. He's irritating, over analyses a culture he doesn't belong to, shits out opinion pieces constantly and claims them as facts, his stupid fucking weeb character and presentation is hideous and shit. All of his videos stretch facts to fit his topic.
He's fucking awful. His fucking voice is so grating and horrible. Fucking fat weeb piece of shit.
>>320497003
>He actually read Lacan
>>320497041
>Like the fact that a game can be completely in 2 hours, but costs $60 - that's a fact that will put me off from buying it.
It will put me off from reading it
>>320497097
Who cares, only spergs have such pictures saved
Don't cut yourself is what's important.
>>320497154
Don't watch pundits
>>320497168
>It will put me off from reading it
Holy shit, you must be the most pretentious flaming faggot on the face of the earth. Wine experts and renaissance art critics wish they could be as pretentious as you.
>>320494262
>complains about female character's oversexualization
>gotta make sure I put the tiddies on the thumbnail so people click on my video!
This is so fucking retarded
>>320497168
I had more fun reading Lacan than your shitposts if that's what you mean
>>320497326
Can't really say I give a fuck about game price or specs it runs on, I can use the internet
>>320497168
Does your ass ever get jealous of your mouth with the amount of shit it spews out?
>>320497168
>measuring game quality in hours needed to finish it
no wonder you have such shit taste
>>320497492
manners, spergo
>>320497459
>I don't care about facts, I'll look up those facts because I can use the internet
Do you understand just how stupid you sound right now?
>>320497492
don't be rude, sperg-o
by the way your prose rhythm is all over the place
>ever get
>with the
>it spews
can't even make a seamless vulgarity.
>>320497562
>manners
>4chan
where exactly do you think you are nigger
>>320497459
Yes, because the length of a game is available on wikipedia. And every game advertises its cut features - you don't need someone who's played the game and is criticizing it to know that multiplayer is for 8 people instead of 16 now. Or that the campaign reuses art assets all the time. Or that it's a buggy mess.
What the hell DO you want to read critiques for? Witty similes?
>>320494262
Totalbiscuit.
He is going to die so I think it is way cooler someone who is dead than someone is alive.
>>320497602
Do you eat shit?
>>320494826
he rage quit teaching there because japanese don't give a shit about learning english.
or learning anything about any other country for that matter
>>320497712
>I don't wanna sound stupid so I'll just start deflecting
>>320497687
Good writing is about translating player's experience into words. If your stunted mind enjoys reinforcement through "this padded out piece of shit lasts 100 hours so you might as well take that credit card and buy the game now now now" you will never have taste.
>>320496742
fuck you dickcunt, hardcore gaming 101 is ok site.
>>320496840
Big talk coming from a psych major.
>>320497818
I can start defecating too
>>320497904
Might as well kill yourself too while you're at it.
>>320497904
>>320497827
Translating experiences into words is art, not critique
>>320498043
>what is impressionistic critique
Anon, we already went over this in 19th century.
>>320497867
No I studied marketable skills, philosophy and psychology are just hobbies of mine
>>320495604
It's like a virus
You put it on a floppy disc, hide it in a magnet-free closet for 10 years to ferment, it will become a super virus that destroys entire cpus
>>320497827
Wow, with what kind of people do you exactly hang out with? You probably all talk at the same time, trying to impress one another without really listening.
>>320497827
>For a good review you need the reviewer's impressions and facts about the game.
>FUCK FACTS WHO CARES ABOUT FACTS HURRR INTERNET
>Facts are important and can help you decide if you want to buy a game. If advertised features are not implemented, if there are gamebreaking bugs - those are important things you need to know.
>FUCK OFF YOUR IDEA OF A GOOD REVIEW IS JUST THE REVIEWER'S FACT-FREE OPINION
Anon, try to stay on topic. I was talking about facts. "this padded out piece of shit lasts 100 hours so you might as well take that credit card and buy the game now now now" is not a fact-based review. It mentions a fact, then goes on to shill with no basis in anything.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but what you want in video game critique is essentially an "I liked this game" or "I hated this game", only written in a pleasant to read, well-flowing, witty, creative way. How, pray tell, does one person's purely subjective experience of a game help you decide whether you should buy it or not?
>>320494961
Not that anon, but it's a really fucking stupid term.
>>320495604
In theory what you said sounds reasonable and echo chambers are bad.
In practice you're a retard for pretending everyone's opinion bears the same weight and your behaviour is akin to bringing Nazis to parliament just because a large number of people voted for them. Nothing wrong with subduing oppressors.
>>320497562
>>320497638
Go away, lit, no one likes you.
>>320495604
>
>>320498331
That's why I used it, their essays are shit tier too
>>320498382
Go back to your echo chamber
>>320498114
Not everyone in interested into formatting their critique in such a way
>>320495604
>you should entertain the retards that will surely make them go away
>>320498465
Objectivity in critique is a myth. If you write for academia you only need to be honest with footnotes.
>>320494262
checked out that faggot
>pitches his voice so he sounds kawaii
>fucking katana toting faggy ass moustached dick avatar even a 12 year old would be ashamed of
>watched IRL tanks vs "GAMING" tanks video
>all it is showing him being around real tanks so he can pretend to be awesome around his 12yo fans
>altf4'd the fuck out after he said "DESU WAR THUNDER DESERVES TO CALL ITSELF A WW2 TANK SIM"
>all while he had a neckbeard, cargo pants, wearing his own channel shirt, his own channel hat
He's immature, stupid, obsessed with "gamen" culutre, an retarded self obsessed fan, and one of those fucking people I FUCKING LOATHE every time I get a booth at a fucking con.
fuck that waste of space. He knows nothing. Fucking retarded channel aimed at kids who think opinion is fact
>>320498461
>Having consensual sex with women is now the same as sexually abusing them
Man, SJWs get crazier every day.
>>320498501
this.
>we're having a nice discussion but are enough voices heard? what does wewuz daquan king from mizzou think about diversity in gaming?
>>320495604
I disagree, the ones that send him tweets are just trying to start shit. He doesn't have to prove anything to those cucks.
>>320498461
>suck a dick
>>320498546
>objectivity is a myth
oh boy a postmodernist, should have guessed
>Shit tier
Errant Signal
Extra Credits
Gaijin Goomba
Egoraptor
GameTheorists (FilmTheorists are shit too)
PBS
There you go
>>320498628
cultural marxism hates sex
>being so fucking ass ravaged by kamiya when you tried to gaijsplain to a japanese man that you try to win him over years after
GG is depressiny
>>320498628
They're obviously escorts, are you retarded
>>320498669
I think you're really overanalyzing Kamiya's behavior. He just doesn't give a fuck about random retard online.
>>320495604
>Blocking people you disagree with and creating echo chambers is the reason you get shit like SJWs in the first place
But the thing is that most of them are really stupid questions.
>>320498793
So? They're not being forced to do that kind of job. There is literally no sexual abuse happening at all in that image, except in the heads of crazy SJWs.
>>320498812
Anon seems to harbor an illusion that those people want a discussion.
>>320498872
None of what you just said is verifiable from this pic alone
What is verifiable however is that prostitution is illegal and widely considered immoral
>>320495604
This is you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
Really, it's you.
>>320499083
>prostitution is illegal
in your cuck country perhaps it is
>widely considered immoral
maybe by your comissars
Conclusion: SJWs are shitty, Kamiya is based and fuck this >>320495604
/thread.
>>320494262
Huh, this video was in fact pretty good, I expected the usual dumb normalfag illogical hypocritical shit again
Nobody wants to hear what a fucking foreigner thinks your nation's culture and values are. Like, who the fuck thinks a complete outsider knows anything about you or your people?
>>320497761
>or learning anything about any other country for that matter
So they're students
>>320499083
>prostitution is illegal and widely considered immoral
Only in America.
Also, there is no way to verify from that picture that those girls are infact escorts. The guy in that picture is a multimillionaire and a celebrity, he probably has girls throwing themselves at him. I doubt he needs to pay for it.
>>320499160
Its actually legal in my country, not in america where this pic was obviously taken
Try again.
>>320499264
>only in america
>>320499264
>randomly kiss each other for the enjoyment of the guy
>totally not escorts tho
Okay he just so happened to have two lesbians in his jaccuzzi
>>320499083
You are fucking retarded
>>320499295
you just disproved yourself, verifiable anon.
>>320499359
It's a good thing escorts aren't prostitutes and the girls in that picture are not escorts.
Why do SJWs hate women so much? They see attractive women and assume they must be some sluts selling their bodies to make a living.
>>320499461
I've seen straight girls kiss each other before. It's not something that never happens. And like I said, he's a celebrity and a multimillionaire (he's worth over $100 million) AND has a reputation for being a playboy. Women throw themselves at him.
>>320499264
>celebrity
Nah
>>320499615
No, I didn't.
>>320499649
He's famous. Has his own wikipedia article and has been in several big budget Hollywood films.
He is a celebrity.
>>320499667
>prostitution is illegal
>it's actually legal in my country
>movies show far worse than any video game ever could
>boys don't cry shows a transgender girl being anally violated by two boys while being called a faggot
>musical artist literally sing/rap about being abusive or sexual towards women(rick ross even admits to raping a woman on one of his tracks)
>poly virtual characters wearing a bikini while playing volleyball are attacked with vigor
what's wrong with this world
>>320499642
because SJWs are hambeasts who hate their bodies and any woman more attractive than themselves
that's why "progressive" female MCs have to look like Brianna Wu. At least they're prettier than a trannie. They're NOT prettier than a cute ladyboy, though, so SJW hate traps despite traps also being progressive.
>>320499752
Anyone can write a Wikipedia article for themselves. Also, he paid to be in a few movies very briefly. He's "famous" on instagram with 13 year old boys, that doesn't make him a celebrity.
>>320496742
Quality of ideas is in no way contingent on quality of prose. Kant wrote like a fucking retard but he still BTFO Mill, a superior essayist and stylist.
>>320499764
Good thing Dan Bilzerian is american then.
>>320499804
People asking the media to "grow up" are ironically infantilizing it and its audience (and themselves).
>>320499804
Video game players and critics are the only ones who give these people attention.
>>320496742
>>objectivity
>Who gives a fuck about facts about video games, just google those. Do you think movie critics write like that?
>>this movie was made in year so and so filmed with this and that premiered here and there and earned this much when adjusted to inflation blah blah
>you must jerk off to those facts.
>>320498546
>Objectivity in critique is a myth.
No. What the fuck do you think is unique about experiencing BamHam 1-3, then finally experiencing 4. Should 4, with the same combat and gameplay, be subject to varying tastes and ideas? Fucking of course not. That's how the whole industry is. It's all played shooters. It's all enjoyed platformers. Finding what's great about further games is objectivity.
This should be a fucking sticky.
>>320499907
>Kant
Kant is only taught in metaphysics class, only relevant philosophy is the 18th century continental one and logical positivism of 20th century.
next thing you're going to say is that hegel has merit outside of proto-psychoanalysis and gender studies.
>video game scholar
you lost me
>>320500256
What you said does not disprove that objectivity is a myth, if you read Hell's Angels you'd see that Hunter S Thompson does some top tier journalistic work there but does not pretend his book is not a subjective view. Using facts does not make the work scientific and since he was a good prose writer he didn't inundate his readers with pointless facts about the gang's formation.
>>320495596
Basically no multiplayer coverage.
>>320500301
None of what you said is relevant to his point.
>>320500432
What he said is not relevant to mine because I never advocated that good prose need be 'correct' in its assumptions.
>>320500406
Recognizing that our awareness is incomplete does not mean objectivity is not desirable.
>>320498583
He was also very asspained about Miku being popular in Japan and then he deleted the vid.
Cant remember what he said exactly but it was to the effect of:
>"Miku isnt real! she's just a tool for corporations"
>>320495596
It's amazing how these pundits build cults of personality from using retards as you as building blocks
>>320500642
No, but you did say you'd rather read that than a detailed account of objective qualities, in which case you would be missing out on informative content, Kant in this example. It is perfectly relevant.
>>320500679
It is desirable but it is irrelevant in the context of well written prose.
>>320500830
And well written prose is irrelevant in the context of writing meant primarily to be informative.
>>320500735
He's one of those insufferable weebs who hates moe stuff and thinks video games are serious business and shit and practices with his replica katana everyday.
>>320500735
you mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnWbv00SO1M
>>320494262
Only guy I "follow" is HCBailly on youtube. His JRPG lets plays are pretty good to throw on in the background while I'm doing something else. He comes off as a nerd who just fucking loves these games and wants to play them and talk about them as much as he can. One of the only guys that isn't whoring himself out or looking for views. You get the feeling he's just doing this because he likes to.
>>320500735
>points out the dehumanizing and consumerist nature of idol culture that recently culminated into using actual objects as worship conduits
>"WOW WHAT A FAG LOL MIKU A CUTE"
>>320500930
Which is not what this thread is about.
Video games are pretty trivial medium, and focusing on the mechanics is what makes those attempts at longform so pathetic. Video games have been thoroughly explained in narratology far before they were even envisioned as a form of entertainment; interactive/performance art and storytelling through interaction is not a novel concept. That's informative. It's sad to see all these Americans paraphrasing choice parts from far more indepth work for youtube points and slew of retards pointing it out as good prose in their wake.
>>320494262
>>320501248
based kamiya
>>320499264
>I doubt he needs to pay for it.
Riiiiight.
>>320501248
Average western dev would be too scared to retweet it
Dead culture
BUT HEY
>>320501147
Gaijin goomba please go, you're just mad your fat, ugly wife isn't cute like Miku.
>>320499895
Can't write a wikipedia article about yourself, it's against the rules. Additionally, for a wikipedia article about a person to remain active, they need to be a notable person.
And the fact that you think he paid to be in some films is pretty insane.
You're grasping at straws now. Which is what SJWs tend to do.
>>320500256
Fuck off, faggot.
>>320501208
You don't really understand videogames if you think they are the same as interactive storytelling or performance.
You also don't really understand art if you qualify a medium as "trivial".
And no, it was precisely what this thread was about : a pompous caricature of an english major pretending that because the prose of an analysis is mediocre, the analysis is not important to him and he'd rather read something more to his taste.
>>320501834
Storytelling model is exactly the same. What I mentioned as trivial is the approach to them that consists of describing their mechanics, it's quite superficial, average camera manual has more insight than that plus most of these 'critics' have no idea about FXAA, DoF, Tesselation etc, nor are they technically equipped to discuss it, and if they were it would detract from prose. So they write middling crap about "good graphics".
I'd say that waving off these essayists is the opposite of pompous.
>>320501208
>Americans
It was already obvious English isn't your native language. Don't stress the point too much, lad.
>>320501060
Nope, it was one of his blog style videos.
>>320501147
A two year old can tell you that. He spent most of the video complaining about the most inane shit. Of course Miku is just a fucking corporate thing, but going for most of the video "Ugh, she's everywhere, I hate her, she isn't even real, all her fans are sheep" just makes you a faggot.
Go and shave your pube beard Gaijin Goomba.
>>320501674
JUST
>>320501834
Of course they are a trivial medium, an interactive medium that is afraid of sex is quite hilarious thing. Bryan Singer looks like a philosopher compared to Ken Levine.
Thank fuck for Japanese and Slavs.
I mean you're right, I used that word clumsily.
>>320502041
smug pudge hodge podge topic dodge
>>320502068
FUCK
>>320501248
>9 supporters
>>320501981
I don't disagree that the gaming press is culturally bankrupt and that their articles are not worth reading
I disagree on principle against the arguement that an objective account of a videogame's mechanics and gameplay loop would be uninteresting or not quality reporting.
And no, videogames are ill equipped to tell stories, their strength as a medium lies elsewhere, more specifically in the parameters of the interactivity they allow. They have more to do with language and mathematics than they have to do with storytelling and art.
>>320501981
No, what you described as "trivial" was videogames as a medium. If you can't even understand your own posts or articulate your own arguments in such a way that they remain consistent to yourself - of all people - I don't think you're really qualified to enter a discussion about writing on videogames.
>>320501743
There are Wikipedia articles about millions of people. Most of them aren't celebrities.
What? He sued some producers because they cut his role after he paid them to be in their movie. This is from his own mouth.
>>320501248
>>320502096
The medium itself is not afraid of anything and plenty of games do approach sex. There is a large industry that would rather keep people infantilized and produce low tier hollywood drivel, but that represents neither the medium itself nor it's potential.
Or, quite frankly, its audience.
>>320502315
>A loan is the same as paying someone
I sure hope you never get a loan off of anyone.
>>320502285
I agree with you on 'quality reporting', I was just lamenting about lack of good writing, good prose, no matter what the perspective is. I'd say that video games are a storytelling medium first and foremost but the storytelling comes from interactivity and techniques employed which is a pretty broad subject I have no energy discussing now. I'll just say that I put map design first and foremost and that I do not equate TECHNOLOGY with gameplay.
>>320502307
I apologize anon.
>>320502453
I completely disagree, I think the medium is scared shitless and this is not a new thing (Dreamweb pixel 'sex' hysteria comes to mind).
>>320502285
>And no, videogames are ill equipped to tell stories
That's hardly true. Video game structure possibly forces stories to be paced or laid out differently than what one sees in a movie, but the way a game can be put together varies wildly. I wouldn't say it inhibits storytelling, even though I think a focus on storytelling is certainly not necessary.
>>320498461
SAVAGE
>>320502568
>I think the medium is scared shitless
>medium
industry*
>>320502514
A "loan," sure. Mince words all you want Dan, a celebrity doesn't need to pay to be in movies.
>>320502568
>I'd say that video games are a storytelling medium first and foremost
but why
>>320495604
Not really because Kamiya doesn't give a quarter shit about social issues.
He's here to make video games, he doesn't want to get dragged into a bunch of bullshit with smelly neckbeards on one side and people who don't even play games on the other.
>>320502654
I'd say that storytelling is an unavoidable feature of video games, and that the player becomes an inadvertent storyteller whenever he discusses a playthrough. As evidenced with stuff like boatmurdered, except that is intentional.
>>320502730
Yes, sorry, industry, specifically western one which controls most of the profits. Look at this image. And this is not even explicit or challenging in any sense.
>>320502843
Because playing a game can stimulate thought, not just be an exercise in muscle memory or a skinner box exercise. You can argue that this is not what vast majority of games are about and probably win that argument easily.
>>320502568
I see no issue with using videogames as a storytelling medium but I still disagree that it is their core. Prototypal videogames were not valued for their stories but for the ability they gave to people to interact with either a virtual context or with each other. Stories are used to give context and purpose but the real meat of the experience is essentially learning to express yourself in a new context, and once you do, achieve whatever goal you set yourself or others set for you with those new tools of experession.
>>320500406
Of course his book is "subjective". The common audience hasn't been there.
The common audience *is* playing mainstream games; and there are plenty of formal discussions on motivation as an objectively defined set of parameters, even for games.
It's pretty obvious though. There are so many agreed on mechanics that are more interesting for a game or genre, like Mario having inertia or competitive FPS games having minimal or no randomization.
>>320499461
>Drunk sluts won't kiss for a millionaire who took them to his 8 million dollar condo
Dude, I don't think you understand your average club slut
>>320503045
Yes, but expression is a relatively broad term, isn't it?
>others set for you
In other words, design? Say, traversing a map someone designed and stumbling upon vantage points that require you to interpret the environment that is showing you the story instead of telling you outright. In that sense storytelling would be at the gameplay's core.
>>320503014
For the ordinary game, the player is going to receive much less idea stimulation than from shows and movies. That's because there's gameplay in between all the ideas.
Yet, even more, some of the best games are so because they're unique experiences. I give no fucks if a game can tell a story better than another game in a market where story is more prevalent than great gameplay mechanics and depth and innovation of the genre's features. Case being, most action games literally have single-button combat. It's awful and repetitive, and there's little to no bypassing that.. even if the story is pretty decent.
>>320500229
Actually, I think its more that SJW and the like can't attack mainstream media because the news is owned by media corporations.
>>320503221
Most of that comes through text, which is uninteresting. There's also a limited amount of prose within a single, probably motionless set piece.
>>320502894
>I'd say that storytelling is an unavoidable feature of video games, and that the player becomes an inadvertent storyteller whenever he discusses a playthrough. As evidenced with stuff like boatmurdered, except that is intentional.
There's little to no post-experience storytelling about the exact button presses of playing Ass Creed. If the combat was deeper, maybe there could be.
>>320495604
You don't understand what an echo chamber is.
>>320503497
>For the ordinary game, the player is going to receive much less idea stimulation than from shows and movies.
I disagree, though I'm unsure about "ordinary game" term. Look how successful bottom of the barrel shit like DayZ and its clones are - almost no content except fuckhuge maps and horrendous gameplay, but the social aspect of it fills the gaps with player created narrative. No one remembers those games are about zombie apocalypse 101.
Another thing, game does not need to have nuanced gameplay to be a sublime experience. Best example I can think of is Yume Nikki that wallows in simplicity but uses it to go great lengths in storytelling.
>>320503753
Ass Creed are really shitty games because they present themselves as action pieces but ring hollow when you figure out they play themselves. That sort of dissonance hurts the overall experience and presentation. Now, if the combat wasn't "hold w to win" you could have numerous opportunities to tell about how you got stumped, like Souls games do.
No one is going to make a story about failed combat in Ass Creed.
>>320503221
I still wouldnt say the core because I can chose to ignore the pretexts given to me while still enjoying the game for what it is. Again I believe storytelling has its place in providing context but what I actually do in videogames needs no context most of the time. Learning to master combat mechanics of a fighting game or a character action game is learning a skill that is only relevant in the specific context of this game.
>>320499168
>/threading your own post
>>320504004
My point is that players often ignore the overall plot, even in games like MGS and remember the interactivity first and foremost. It's almost Lynchian in a sense he approached Twin Peaks - visual medium relies on visuals first and foremost and if you can interact with those visuals it will play to medium's strengths.
>Learning to master combat mechanics of a fighting game or a character action game is learning a skill that is only relevant in the specific context of this game.
This can also be used as a storytelling device. I recently played Yakuza 1 and there's a guy there that teaches you new moves throughout the game, giving you exercises until you learn to replicate them enough times. It's simple but I felt like the character truly learned something that he didn't know before instead of simply been given an unlock.
And games that I replay the most are those with sound mechanics, like shuffling 'my' feet in Castlevania or doing dodges in Viewtiful Joe, then again it may have something to do with introversion, I like to daydream while playing and video games are experiences that are very close to literature when I'm concerned, I like to think about them, 'write' sentences in my mind.
>>320498461
That guys a fucking faggot though.
>Look at me I can buy women with daddies money
If he earned a bit of it himself I'd have a shred of respect for him.
>>320503938
>Look how successful bottom of the barrel shit like DayZ and its clones are
The only way that's relevant for the topic is content creation. The gameplay is all pretty similar though, and it all trends toward surviving the most vs. the most opponents. I figured that "stimulation" implied real paradigm innovation though. There's no learning science or other applications from playing nor watching DayZ. With that, the point stands that shows and movies provide more potential for discovery.
>almost no content except fuckhuge maps and horrendous gameplay, but the social aspect of it fills the gaps with player created narrative
>Now, if the combat wasn't "hold w to win" you could have numerous opportunities to tell about how you got stumped, like Souls games do.
Yet, that's not the appeal of games -- talking about them. What's great about games is fulfillment, whether with interesting ideas or unique experiences. It's freedom. Furthermore, repetitive or shallow gameplay hampers games more than repetitive or shallow storytelling. That's all how it's a gameplay medium and not necessarily that of storytelling. Evidencing the opposite is to evidence that storytelling, even about gameplay experiences, is a prevalent goal.
>Ass Creed are really shitty games because they present themselves as action pieces but ring hollow when you figure out they play themselves. That sort of dissonance hurts the overall experience and presentation.
That's a pretty objective criticism, but you'd probably shun the idea. If so, maybe you should re-evaluate that all.
>>320498117
>philosophy and psychology are just hobbies of mine
>>320499804
Every form of media goes through growing pains we just need to survive until they move onto the next thing(probably VR) so it doesn't end up like comics.
>>320504734
>Furthermore, repetitive or shallow gameplay hampers games more than repetitive or shallow storytelling.
You need to play Yakuza.
>>320496208
BioPokey isn't super intellectual or whatever but his sentences usually have pretty good flow and hnis videos are well paced.
Even if he basically is vidya DemoD.
>>320504739
Either /v/ is full of euphoric SJWs or it became exceedingly good at baiting. I doubt its the second because the state of the art shitposting a couple days ago was laughingelfman.png
>>320505073
Mean years. Years ago
Fuck these stupid long ass post deletion times
>>320497168
>It will put me off from reading it
You watch video reviews and essays to learn shit, not to hear well spoken prose.
Now the latter can make the former more engaging, but when watching something like a review it should principally be for an evaluation of a game's quality, not the video writer's attempt at literature.
>>320497827
Reviews are meant to put into words the facts that informed their opinion you mongoloid.
As in, instead of !this game is 100 hours therefore good" like you're implying, they may say that even though a game may last a long time the padding may turn people off etc.
>>320498461
BILZERIAN
>>320502894
>they're not taking your games away
This is the end, isn't it?
>>320495395
Kamiya doesn't give a shit
And he wants people to know that he doesn't give a damn if they defend him or not
He
Doesn't
Care
He does what he wants regardless of what people say
They shouldn't get his attention pretending to defend him
>>320505196
>You watch video reviews and essays to learn shit
Video games are not that complicated anon. The only thing you can learn about them are technical terms which then go off in a, well, technical direction.
>evaluation of game's quality
why not watch videos about C++ then? Why pretend you have an idea how the game is made?
>>320498583
he is also a cuck
People need to keep in mind that Kamiya's attitude is to get across the point that he doesn't want anybody to feel they need to defend him
Nor should somebody get special attention or views because they did
>>320499095
>that pic
FUCK YOOOU!
>>320505665
Is that implying the quality of a game can't be inferred from videos? Because that would be inaccurate.
>>320506056
For most games, you can gauge gameplay quality / mechanics from watching the video. But for those that are really mechanically sound, you need to play them to understand them better. Like trying to do advanced mechanics in DMC 4. Or trying to learn Street Fighter, it offers insight no passive viewing can.
>>320506170
So, you're conceding?
Also, learning advanced mechanics probably comes from having experience with the types of gameplay. If I don't enjoy the mechanical gameplay of SF, I'm probably going to bypass getting the game -- based off the videos.
If I enjoy DMC type combat, I can infer from deeper video explanations that it's probably interesting.
>>320505665
>why not watch videos about C++ then? Why pretend you have an idea how the game is made?
What has this got to do with anything I said?
Say I'm watching a review of a platformer, I don't need to know C++ to understand a reviewer saying something like "the level design is varied" or some shit.
>>320506385
Conceding what? Just trying to do advanced mechanics offers additional perspective as opposed to watching the video explaining them to you.
I can infer how turn based tactics game plays out from watching the video, same with most FPS titles etc.
>>320506170
Yes, but gameplay mechanics or levels can change over the course of a game, something that can be summaries well in a review of some form.
Watching a 5 minute video of a game's gameplay doesn't give you any sort of overall guage for the game's quality.
>>320506556
It has to do with a slippery slope. Video games are highly technical medium and if you want to truly understand how the game 'works' you can't be trivial, you must go in the direction that is far more /g/ than /v/. That's why I prefer well written prose, I think video game is far more than underlying code.
And it's far harder to understand how something was coded and myriads of ways the lighting systems work than it is to comment of Da Vinci's use of sfumato.
>>320506674
True, but those games are rare.
>>320505665
>The only thing you can learn about them are technical terms
This has to be bait I swear to god.
Shit like input delay or level progression or story quality can't just be judged from one short gameplay video. When I said "learn shit" I meant learn about the quality of the game itself.
Fuck, how do you think movie reviews work? Do you think this shit is only a "problem" in games? People want to be informed of the overall quality of something before they buy it.
>>320506814
>True, but those games are rare.
>it's rare that games ever introduce new levels, enemy types, mechanics, or have a story that progresses over the course of the game
What the fuck am I reading
>>320506838
Movies are far simpler to make than video games unless you want to ask a camera manufacturer for the layout of its parts.
Point is, you can figure out how gameplay works for most games just by watching the video.
>input delay
Now you're just showing off.
>>320506945
Don't use strawman, it's rude.
>>320506814
This isn't about understanding how a game "works" on a coding level. It's about what makes for good or bad design in games.
When people watch short video essays on movies like everyframeapainting or whatever, they're not looking for the exact focal length and angle of lighting on each frame, no matter how someone may find that interesting. Typically people want to know the artistic decisions that lead to something being "good" or "bad" put simply.
Regardless, what has the technical aspects got to do with good prose?
>>320506945
>oh look the first level had a skeleton, second has a zombie, i wonder what's next
>>320507081
Oh it's bait never mind.
Getting back on topic, OP, Mark Brown is bretty gud. Disagree with some of his opinions but for the most part he's alright. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5EcpT3O0r8
Oh yeah also BTongue made a new video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLIq4ceXZAw
>>320494262
robbaz
>>320507130
Good analogy anon. But to properly describe an experience you need not know anything other than interpret visuals in enticing way. That's the strength of prose and that's why most of these videos fizzle out through inane descriptions of trivial stuff.
>>320507253
>BTongue
Hamfisted cultural marxist pundit
You know, someone who thinks art can be degenerate isn't someone whose opinions bear much weight. But nice of you to dismiss my opinion as bait just because you disliked it.
In fact btongue is the prime example of ridiculous faggots I started this thread for.
Could we just get liberals/SJWs to just stop criticizing what the Japanese are doing with THEIR characters? It's obviously a culture difference, and until I see japanese women complain about these sorts of things, stop freaking out over it.
I think SJWs should just worry about what the west is doing, because Japan doesn't give a fuck and they shouldn't give a fuck unless their own culture shuns it.
>>320506576
>Conceding what?
That whole discussion is about the viability of objective critique. Getting that information without even playing the game further evidences the potential.
In other words, "the only thing that can be learned about games through videos is technical terms" followed by "gameplay quality can be inferred" seems like conceding the point after being called out.
>>320506674
Videos about those games would probably list that.
>>320507414
>But to properly describe an experience you need not know anything other than interpret visuals in enticing way.
..Except how it plays and how that contrasts with other games of a similar experience -- especially if that gameplay is saturated and if the game provides anything more.
>>320507253
>most part he's aright
>skim through video
>"write first" rpg is better than "design first"
but i gave him traffic and i will donate to his kickpatreon
>>320507081
>Don't use strawman, it's rude.
>gameplay mechanics or levels can change over the course of a game, something that can be summaries well in a review of some form.
>True, but those games are rare.
Where did I strawman. This was literally the preceeding conversation.
Either this whole thread is bait or you're the most pretentious guy here.
>>320507787
>"write first" rpg is better than "design first"
When did he say that
>>320507414
So what's your example of good movie criticism?
>>320507715
>Videos about those games would probably list that.
Yes. Video reviews.
>>320507989
>Yes. Video reviews.
Irrelevant. If the idea is getting information, then whatever type of video has that is what's watched. There's no point in saying that watching a minimalist gameplay video doesn't provide that. It's also vague and unfounded.
>>320507715
I never said that objective critique isn't important, I'm not a post-structuralist. It just holds no merit for quality of prose and that's what I'm concerned about.
>>320507828
Your strawman consists of interpreting my thoughts as universally pertaining to every game while I specifically stated that most games are simplistic and that you can infer how gameplay works in MOST of these games by watching the video. You went ahead and surmised I do this for every game.
>>320507989
>So what's your example of good movie criticism?
Wish I knew. I can reccommend Lester Bangs for good writing about music. Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung is the book.
I did find some nice writing about movies in "Introduction to film" and books of similar caliber but it's also chock full of queer theory and similar crap.
>>320507903
End of the video.
Also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWElVmXXC6U
People who debate with strawmans are pundits and their opinions hold no merit. It's also the best way to captivate an audience.
>>320508267
>It just holds no merit for quality of prose
Semantics.
>>320507787
>>320507903
Wait never mind. Thought you meant Mark Brown.
Yeah I hadn't seen that video, just posted it because he uploaded it like yesterday and a few people here watch him.
>>320508306
What? Quality of prose isn't a semantic issue.
>>320507828
Maybe I didn't emphasize enough, I think most of the things you mentioned are trivial distinctions, caked on makeup on face of most games and you do not need to see every trivial variation to gauge their quality.
>>320508346
Many people do unfortunately, he was among the ones that kickstarted this trend.
>>320508176
>Irrelevant. If the idea is getting information, then whatever type of video has that is what's watched. There's no point in saying that watching a minimalist gameplay video doesn't provide that. It's also vague and unfounded.
But the point has already been made that watching a short gameplay video says nothing about the overall quality.
What if I wanted a fully fledged hack n slash, watched some gameplay of DMC4 and thought "wow this looks great!" then bought it to discover it was basically half a game?
A review summarises that shit while also giving you an opinionated view informed by facts on what makes it good or bad in certain areas. I genuinely do not understand how this is so fucking hard for you to grasp.
>>320508267
>It just holds no merit for quality of prose and that's what I'm concerned about.
What the fuck does this mean?
I mean, I know on a technical level what this sentence fucking means, but you just spout this shit without actually explaining how it has any fucking relevance to the topic at hand. People want to hear talks about the good or bad design choices in games, good prose should be a plus, not the core of the fucking critique.
if they ever censor ivy i'm going to an hero
>>320508486
>caked on makeup on face of most games and you do not need to see every trivial variation to gauge their quality.
How is the fucking gameplay of a game trivial? It's fucking imperative to the quality of a game.
I'm surprised you hate Extra Credits considering how pretentious you sound.
>>320508705
I'm saying that most games have simplistic gameplay with minuscule variations.
I hate all gaming pundits/opinion makers except DSP who is a trainwreck I love watching from time to time.
>>320508587
>I mean, I know on a technical level what this sentence fucking means, but you just spout this shit without actually explaining how it has any fucking relevance to the topic at hand.
Fuck, I just want a good writer working in the field. Someone who understands both storytelling but can also write well about it.
>>320494262
I'd say the only one who can actually articulate his points is Yahtzee
>>320509097
>storytelling
Oh that's why
>>320508486
Unless you're trying to discuss the objective qualities of prose, which seems more of a /lit/ topic, there seems no point in this thread then. Ordinarily, gameplay and reviews are watched for information or the player's personality.
>>320508492
So, you're trying to make the point that watching a simple gameplay video provides too little context for the potential enjoyment of the game? Then, why purchase it based on that limited video? There's literally no point in posting that idea. Yet, for every game and genre there are simple questions that can be answered, visually or whatever, that blatantly show the quality of the game. Even more, if the game has a latency problem, finding that is probably simple. So..
>>320509227
>So, you're trying to make the point that watching a simple gameplay video provides too little context for the potential enjoyment of the game? Then, why purchase it based on that limited video?
Because that's what you were saying. I was saying that it's more effective to watch a concise critique.
>Yet, for every game and genre there are simple questions that can be answered, visually or whatever
Yes, in a fucking review. I really don't get your argument in the slightest.
And some shit isn't so simple. Someone passively watching a gameplay video may not understand all the mechanics actually at play or how mechanics interplay and interact with one another and such. You seem to give gameplay much less credit than it's due. Gameplay can be complicated as hell and not just given an overall view in an uncut 5 minute gameplay demo.
>>320509227
>Unless you're trying to discuss the objective qualities of prose
Well we cannot say that good prose is just a personal preference judgement.
>>320509219
Storytelling a video game offers objectively and his personal, impressionistic take on it.
Why is it always people that play western or western development styled games that are the most unhappy with what should be a fun hobby.
>>320509620
>Video games are not that complicated anon. The only thing you can learn about them are technical terms which then go off in a, well, technical direction.
>>evaluation of game's quality
>why not watch videos about C++ then? Why pretend you have an idea how the game is made?
It seems like you have no clue what you're saying.
>>320509778
I was being a retard pounding away at the keyboard there to be quite frank. I'm a bit bored and my expression can be stunted but that's no excuse. I was experimenting with non-trivial bait if such thing exists at that point, but this thread is mostly honest. My point started as an argument against technicalities ruining the prose and I stand by it.
>>320509958
>My point started as an argument against technicalities ruining the prose and I stand by it.
That seems like an argument remaining from the idea that objective critique is just listing features, and that's absolutely ludicrous.
>>320510082
I never cared about 'objective' critique in this thread because it will not make prose better or worse. I just think that taking out a good chunk of text to linger on technicalities can hurt the writing.
>>320509657
>Storytelling a video game offers objectively and his personal, impressionistic take on it.
Never was contesting that. It's just that your priority for critique of story over gameplay says a lot about this whole thread now.
>>320509958
Good job impersonating me to win an argument with yourself, OP.
Just fuck off already.
>>320495604
It wasn't even that he disagreed with it, he just wasn't even entertaining the discussion at all. I think that he as a developer is perfectly right in doing that.
>>320510217
Except, you're setting up a contrast of prose vs technicalities. Why disregard objective critique at all? That's what would make games better, not rhetoric.
>I like prose
>I like story
>I don't like the idea of objective critique
>I have no interest in gameplay depth
> >>320510321
>>320509778
>It seems like you have no clue what you're saying.
Likewise. What the fuck does learning C++ have to do with anything? This is about the artistic decisions made and whether or not people will enjoy a product because of it, not the coding behind the product.
>>320510502
You seem to be agreeing with the post you're quoting.
>>320510473
Different person m8.
>>320510321
I was not saying that. I was talking about ways to critique a video game and ways in which said critique can be stunted.
>>320510409
I have no idea what you're talking about but you sound like a sperg.
>>320510473
>Why disregard objective critique at all?
Not disregarding it, thing is that there is some decent objective critique from time to time, calls for more TECHNOLOGY, but as for 'rhetoric', there never was any quality in that when the medium is concerned.
>>320510409
I was talking about your greentext of my post...
>>320510570
If I was just judging the post itself then yeah. But he replied to me when I was saying that in the first place so idk what the fuck the argument even is at this point.
So, jumping into this thread late and not willing to participate in the verbal foodfight going on,
Is there anything out there that does a better job of games writing than the two half-assed ends of the spectrum, one being the pure impressionistic bullshit by people with less writing credentials/experience than an undergrad english lit student, the other end being pure mechanical dissection 8.8/10 that's essentially a list of features strung together into complete sentences?
I don't give a shit about objectivity/subjectivity, I just want to read some fucking intelligent observations about vidya james and not feel like I'm reading from someone who just started lit theory last week.
>>320510680
Oh okay. Misunderstood, sorry.
>>320504653
Cool assumption bro. I like how you think getting two absolute trash sluts to make out with each other in a hot tub and fuck you is some sort of monumental achievement that only really rich people are capable of doing.
>>320510727
Not really, from my perspective. Most I've stumbled upon are half assed pundits that could probably engage in a decent discussion if they didn't bait with answering their own strawmans and starting completely uninteresting topics such as "are digital tits too large" for the sake of clicks. Or perhaps they are just wired that way.
Podcasts are even worse because how disarrayed those discussions are and most harbor personality cults.
>>320510727
https://youtu.be/Lpi6cWCpW6c?t=148
Not amazing in either aspect but he offers some good points while for the most part having some decent flow to his writing.
>>320494262
>Blocked.
I love Kamiya.
>>320510602
Didn't imply it was the same. Context clues.
>>320510613
>Not disregarding it, thing is that there is some decent objective critique from time to time, calls for more TECHNOLOGY, but as for 'rhetoric', there never was any quality in that when the medium is concerned.
>still discussing technical aspects of games and not how they are overall better experiences
>implying prose is the answer
>>320510682
Then you're first post on the topic was ~ >>320506170, simultaneously taking the place of the speaker of >>320505665. Then, why jump in the discussion so randomly, especially in an answer to a challenge on a position (>>320505665) that you apparently don't agree with?
>>320499083
>What is verifiable however is that prostitution is illegal and widely considered immoral
Prostitution is legal everywhere but America and that's because you can't tax it.
>>320510727
I was thinking about making a sort of impressionistic series that are part let's play (of an extremely small chunk of the game) and part evocation of whatfeelingssaid game evokes within my personal perspective. It would be in great danger of becoming a completely dilluted pseudo intellectual jabber but I'd focus on associations, like Burroughs did in Naked Lunch (using this as an example, not delusional about my prose), only a bit less delirious. What would make or break these videos are montages, juxtapositions, perhaps with real world / film footage to get the point, an impression across. No more than 20mins per video.
Some anon made a webm that shows how two mediums can be conjoined to offer a new perspective. This is not the only approach I'm thinking about but I've been watching a lot of Lynch and Miike and I think that visual should take precedence even when critique of visual medium is concerned.
>>320511196
>Then you're first post on the topic was ~ >>320506170(You), simultaneously taking the place of the speaker of >>320505665(You). Then, why jump in the discussion so randomly, especially in an answer to a challenge on a position (>>320505665(You)) that you apparently don't agree with?
>>320510990
I'd prefer written over video but at least you've given me someplace to start, thanks.
>>320510961
That's been largely my experience as well. Sometimes I find something decent if I widen the net enough to include just talking about game design overall. Those can be pretty damn interesting , like
>http://hitboxteam.com/designing-game-narrative
was a cool article.
It doesn't seem to help much either that they all go after the lowest-hanging fruit, whichever AAA title of the month will get them the most clicks. And that shit tells you nothing of value, you might as well do a critical analysis of a Fast & Furious movie.
