Say hello to Smash 4's newest middle/low tier character!
The good:
>Good fast aerials with nice range on them
>Attacks deal alot of % in damage
>F-smash is quite powerful
>Finishing Touch kills super early
>Blade beam is a decent projectile especially on a slow fighter like cloud
>Tilts are good like Ike's
The bad:
>Lacks reliable kill moves. Even though finishing touch kills early its hard to land
>Absolutely no grab game.
>Awful, awful recovery. His limit break boosts his recovery to an acceptable level but thats only if he has the limit break No horizontal recovery at all.
>Alot of his attacks are easy to punish if you just throw them out carelessly. Cloud will not benefit from playing aggressively. Your best bet is to spam blade beam and look for openings to punish your opponent
Overall, not a horrible character but nothing really stellar about him either.
He's fucking shit.
>>320342983
I'm glad he's not particularly good. I tend to avoid higher tier characters.
Sounds to me you just suck with him
>>320344127
The character has only been out for a few hours. No one is "good" with him yet, retard.
>>320342983
>Tiering only after three hours
>tfw spamming blade beam
I cant help but feel like a shitter, i wish you could like move as soon as you throw it out
>>320344306
You play the character, you get good. Simple, chum.
Spouting shit like "lacks reliable kill moves" means you didn't put in enough time within these few hours.
>>320344542
Its just my first impression. AKA my opinion. You shouldn't take it too seriously. I apologize for any asspain I may have caused your sensitive rear end.
>>320344598
Are you good with him?
>>320344816
Better than you are, certainly
>>320344931
Ok then go make your own analysis thread and fuck off.
>>320342983
Tourneyfag here, he's lower high tier AT WORST, i can only see zss demolishing him.
>>320342983
he's REALLY fucking bad. I don't see any potential in this character at all. especially with the likes of Ryu advancing so rapidly.
>normally likes using faster character
>try out cloud
>cant do shit because smashes come out 2slow4me
>cant move with the blade beam
Pure sadness. I guess i'll just stick to playing cloud in dissidia.
>>320345058
Where's the fun in that when I can tell others their analysis of characters are shit.
>>320345604
Thanks for the free (you)s, shitposter.
>>320345490
Ryu's arsenal; is huge though. Due to all the move variations and fictions, He will keep developing. It makes Cloud look like an open book by comparison.
>>320345338
>bottom 3 recovery
>lower high tier
lol
you haven't really played with him have you
>>320345338
LOL are you serious, He is solidly mid tier
I think you should be more worried about how OP Bayo is gonna be
He's okay. Has a few interesting things like that godly dash attack, tilts and Uair. But that recovery is so bad. It's almost Little Mac tier. I can't count how many Clouds I've spiked because his Up B doesn't autosnap to the ledge.
>>320345912
>game very clearly doesnt have real combos
>character suddenly has actual combos.
>probably is going to be able to shit all over everything
Im intrigued yet frightened
>>320342983
The good:
>You can now badly reenact the Megaman X4 fight with Colonel, where Cloud spams limit broken blade beam after a series of normal ones and the other player uses Megaman and dodges them
The bad:
>the game still isn't Megaman X4 or any other Megaman X game
I'm feeling another Mewtwo with him. I'll be open-minded, but I think that if the patch with Bayo and Corrin doesn't buff him he'll be pretty bad to use.
I mean, he should get something out of grabs. Right now he's "Hard Fucking Reads: The Character."
>>320346114
>tfw blade beam doesnt work like twin slasher.
>>320345912
She will OP against a character like Little Mac & Cloud. Sakurai already stated that the longer the string the longer the end lag on it and judging from the trailer a lot of her hits don't knockback save for a few. As well as how easy it is to interrupt her moves as shown. Shiek and ZZS will tear her up
>people already trying to place Cloud on the tier list mere HOURS after release
You're all fucking retarded
>>320342983
Use finishing touch when they're coming up from the edge. It catches them if they're standing, attacking, jumping or rolling, the only option they have is jump away or fall
I was getting kills with his forward smash at 70 and his limit breaks are all kill moves at most 100 and beyond, I have no idea what you're talking about.
His grab game is weak, but at early percentages his dthrow can combo into forward special, an easy 30 percent.
His recovery is absolutely shit, save your 2nd jump when you're off the edge, wall jump when you can, yadda yadda.
Everyone has easy to punish attacks if you're careless, but his attacks do shit on shield pressure compared to other characters, Cloud is an aggressive character who needs to play off the weaknesses of the opponent in order to get anywhere.
Despite having really good control of the stage, Cloud is weakest at the edge for obvious reasons. Keep him there.
he's Little Mac with a sword
>>320344076
Why?
I like him.
What grab you guys using? Any true combos at low percents off of a specific grab? I played for a few hours with some friends but didn't pick up on any good grab followups
>>320346818
Don't know myself, honestly.
>>320342983
So he's just like my other main?
I'm in.
>>320344076
You like losers bracket?
>>320347017
When the opponent is at 0% sometimes you can get off a down throw to a cross slash behind you.
>>320346713
Just to add, a LB Blade Beam can break through Pit's armor on his side b
>>320347061
Nah man. Even if the buster sword is fucking huge, Cloud doesn't really have much range. His best kill move is probably his F Smash, which is easy to block/dodge but has the best range out of his grounded attacks.
You really can't play Cloud without using Sword Beam.
fsmash frametraps, uair is the goat, kills at 80 with almost everymove, his tilts are godlike, and he can easily cover every getup option, his speed is GOOD and nigga autocancels everything.
The only downside is the shitty recovery and that can be avoided with proper limit management wich you should be charging everytime, also his recovery is not that bad the up-b sucks but he has very good aerial moviliity and a good double jump, with proper DI you should be surviving, it's no way close to littlemac's who dies because of his shitty doublejump.
>>320347061
Sort of. Link was much better recover though.
>>320346108
its like ryu
>>320342983
After some hours of using him, he seems like a high tier character. Probably better than Captain Falcon in Scarflard's tierlist.
He has the best dashdancing without the need for silly imputs (like CF) in the game.
>>320342983
M2k said he's a solid mid tier, him and Ryo (a good Little Mac player who works in the same team as him) said he's basically Little Mac with a sword
He mainly said his recovery holds him down a lot, and said if it was better he'd probably be a high tier. Also said he lacks reliable ways to kill but I think that comes with inexperience
>>320342983
Is he on the DS version?
>>320349526
Nope Wii U exclusive.
Another new challenger for me to smash.
>>320349559
Fug :DD
>>320342983
I think it's funny how these characters with a lot of crazy and over the top gimmicks on them with unique traits get outplayed by a completely straight-foward character like Sheik.
>>320349526
Of course he is. They had the 3DS price listed in the direct.
people getting all shook up about cloud not even a day in. remember when Bowser was top tier and diddy was low?
>>320346704 has it right
What tiers do you think Corrin and Bayo are going to be in? I can see Bayo being in god tier because of her being like ZSS and shiek. Corrin looks like he/she fits in the mid tier like all the other FE characters.
>>320350534
Oh yeah, back when Bowser was in an UNRELEASED DEMO, and got nerfed to shit BECAUSE HE WAS IN AN UNFINISHED STATE?
Cloud's a finished character now, he's out, and the game's meta is extremely well known right now; Cloud's a solid mid-tier, no matter what "comes out", because he has only average frame-data and a shitty ass recovery, which are both everything in Sm4sh.
>>320350841
Bowser was largely unchanged, everyone just remembers the Bowser ditto in grand finals of the 3DS tourney. Did anyone happen to notice the 3rd and 4th place winners though? They were randoms spamming dash attacks.
>Two fucking anime swordsman got in
>Bayonetta shit 3rd party waifubait got in
>K rool and Bandanna Dee got shafted when everyone on smashboards was behind them
So we can finally prove that the ballot was a fucking sham and sakurai is a talentless hack, right?
>>320350841
forgot to mention how luig and pikachu were mid and both pits were high. that shit was wack and you know it
>>320351120
Go cry elsewhere cakeboy, the better fighter got in.
>>320350675
as soon as he said "combo fighter" I knew she was going to be strong, but then I saw her down b and knew she is going to be ivan ooze tier
>>320351120
>smashboards is the entirety of the smash community
lol fuck off bandana-scum
>>320351120
>smashboards
>implying smash reddit 2.0 has a say in anything
>>320344542
Well, he's certainly not very technical. His most interesting feature is his down-b. Charging your limit break could require the opponent to play more offensively. His fully charged down-b (finishing touch) serves to make Little Mac feel inadequate.
Like OP said, he's not a horrible character, but he doesn't have much going for him. At least his attacks are faster than that buster sword of his would imply, while still pretty damaging. Get ready to throw Little Cloud off the ledge and make him waste his limit break. They'll probably never use their limit break except for recovery. If they do, send them off stage and they'll never come back.
Will double Climhazzard suicide be the next Jolt Haymaker? Probably not, unless they're panicky retards who just spam B when they try to recover.
>>320342983
He can cancel the limit break charge similar to shiek's needles. Makes it a lot easier to approach with his tilts and smashes.
>>320352930
Oh, hello Qilby. How's every little thing?
>>320352930
>tfw i always press inputs twice just to make sure it goes through.
>mfw i go right pass the ledge and die.
This ruins everything Im fed up with this world.
Can you fuckers at least give cloud some time?
Sheik's brutal combo game and ZSS's stupidity wasn't found out in day 1.
>>320342983
He's probably gonna be like Little Mac, where he can really control the stage but edges kinda mess with him. They said he probably really shines in 2v2 but is lackluster in 1v1
Cloud definitely feels like mid-tier material but god damn some of his moves are just so satisfying to land.
>>320353853
I can see Corrin being an absolute terror in 2v2s with that lancing move. Free Falcon Knees for days.
>>320350534
yeah, and remember that time people called mewtwo shit after playing him for a short time, and lo and behold, he ended up being shit?
we're not going to get anywhere if we keep stagnating in "WAAAH JUST GIVE IT X AMOUNT OF TIME" nonsense
>>320351565
>The biggest smash bros site on the web doesn't matter
go eat sakurai's shit somewhere else drone
>>320342983
>lacks reliable kill moves
>fair and bair reliably kill middle weight characters at about 120
>>320354612
If even the biggest and most important smash bros site's community can't make a dent in the ballot results then no, it doesn't matter.
>Doing a jab combo and then doing a down tilt can lead to a second jab combo at low percentages if they fail to tech it.
>>320354586
It's been FIVE FUCKING HOURS. I can't believe you're going to use the word "stagnating" when the character hasn't even been out an entire fucking day. Jesus Christ,
Does having the limit gauge full increase anything besides running speed? Normal attacks seem to do the same damage.
For half a second i actually thought you guys were talking about a real fighting game. Than i realized its just Shit Smash that you're talking about like its an real honest to God fighting game. Its actually pretty cute. Like when in commercials they have little kids dressed like adults pretending they're all grown and what not. Your game is and will always be be shit tier.
>Knock Cloud off the edge.
>He's forced to come back with ^B
>Slide and connect with Wario's sourspot
>He falls too far for another ^B to save him.
>Consistently taking Cloud stocks at 40ish percent.
Wario has the best dash in the game.
>>320349742
It all comes to the very simple fact that if you know how to play Shiek then she has absolutely NO punishable moves. She has a safe option for every situation unlike nearly every other character that can be placed in situations where they need to make hard reads or risky moves they can end up being punished for.
>>320355113
It only didn't because sakushit rigged the results and you know it
>no kill options
>when his limit break down b that hits all around him can kill at 50%
Fucking idiot
>>320342983
>>Lacks reliable kill moves. Even though finishing touch kills early its hard to land
Buuuuuuuuuuullshit
>>320356446
You're a delusional faggot and should immediately kill yourself imo desu
>>320356521
Did you even read the entire ops post?
>>320356089
>actually playing wario
Props bro, hard earned wins
>>320356837
>implying I read shitposts
So basically cloud takes skill as opposed to other characters and neo /v/ee has to watch e-celebs videos telling you why cloud sucks and believe it.
Got it.
>>320357153
But then you cant even proofread your own posts. Sounds like a bad idea.
>>320357560
>Should of proofread his own post
This might sound dumb given that Ike is in 4, but I view him as what Ike was in Brawl. He has almost no follow ups and no recovery at all so his primary use of damage is through retardedly strong and long ranged moves.
So no one here has any idea of what they are talking about and are just shitposting? Gotcha.
>>320359325
I don't actually have him, but my thoughts are from facing against him.
>Recovery doesn't hit the ledge until the fucking animation completes
My only real problem with him desu, it's just dumb
>>320359352
That only tells you how good/bad the opponent is with him. Which isn't much in the long run.
>>320359325
He's literally Little Mac with a sword and projectile. All he's missing is super armor on smashes. He doesn't even immediately grab the ledge when recovering with Up B.
>>320342983
You're trash, don't make a thread talking about a characters meta when you're trash. He kills with bair, dash, uair, limit, touch, forward tilt, u smash, d smash, and f smash. He's a good character, you're just fucking awful lol.
Reminder that both fair and bair spike.
>>320360181
*fair and dair
>competitive smash
why dont you guys just play a real fighting game?
Cloud is a hit and run character. Since your projectile has a ton of endlag, you're best harassing your opponents with auto cancelled nairs until you see an opening, then proceed to downtilt, try an upair and back to neutral. Do not overextend.
Anyways, you WILL get hit and comboed, look at it like a skilled man's Lucario, once you get enough Limit Break the fun begins. You have four options. The wisest one is to keep it for recovery, unless you see the opponent roll or can approach airborne and down b. Neutral b is decent but only racks up damage, rarely kills in the middle of the stage.
It's all footsies with Nair until you can get an upair juggle going or decide to finish with limit break. All Smash attacks are easily punished, so care.
If any of you from the /v/eekday tourney just now are here
G fucking G on that last round, was on my toes the whole time. Final kill was orgasmic, you were a worthy opponent, Pac.
Oh and Cloud's really fun, has everything he needs to be at least mid-tier. Might be the meanest dash attack in the game.
down throw side b is a good 26% (34% if limit'd) from 0%, really it's the only combo from any of his grabs I could find. F-tilt works as well but it's only 16% and knocks them too far away for a followup
>>320342983
>somebody posts a critique/review of a character
>"wow you must suck with him I always beat my friends 20:1 every time we play and get 94573940 kills"
Why is there always that one person who can't figure out that characters aren't created equally?
>>320360468
Back air is also pretty good.
Has little end lag, decent range and nice kill power.
Cloud is mid tier at worst. His downside is recovery, but even then its far from the worst, and it surpasses most when limit break.
Easy combos are: jab combo, dtilt follow up, then another jab combo or side b, dthrow-side b, depending on the character you can potentially chase after with a nair, but its not worth the risk usually. Another is fthrow, dash attack, or fthrow dtilt. Depending on the character, you can follow up your dtilt attacks with an utilt, or up b. when following up with up b, always hit b twice to slam them, the upswing doesn't push them away. Its really good at the edge if you can get it pixel perfect, as it spikes them but keeps you on the edge of the stage like Ike's aether.
His limit break up isn't good for killing only recovery, if his recovery scares you that much just save it. His side b comes out faster and longer range as well as hitting harder, so its good for edge guarding or chasing. His neutral b is good for recovery denial alone, limit broken it can doom even the best recovery characters at low %s if timed right. His down b is likely the best, as it kills nearly everyone that isn't blocking around you that's 30% or more.
That's the basics I've come up in training so far. I fought AI Cloud, and the most common online characters (Ryu, Sheik, Ganondorf, Mario, Luigi, ZSS, etc)
His biggest weakness is shields if you ask me. He has no shield breaking attacks that I found, so you can block his shit all day and smash him.
>That shitty FF logo
Jesus why
>>320355197
>if they fail to tech it
this will work once. it's a mixup. it certainly wont work if the opponent knows the matchup
>>320360482
Who is this symbol of purity and chastity?
>>320358838
>Should of
kek
>>320362187
His aerials are also worth shit in spacing. None of them can be effectively fastfalled. Fair has a TERRIBLE hitbox for it's speed, Bair less so but still fucking annoying to hit people on the ground with. I fucking love Fair passing through people because they're slightly above me. Another character to never, ever pick against small characters.
Also only Uair kills and that's if your opponent is generous enough to not press dodge.
>>320365571
>not paiting the air dodge and using Uair afterwards
His Dair has a surpisingly log out-time and you can really fuck some people up with it
>>320366627
yeah dude just always bait the dodge
fuck you
As rank 10 in Oregon, I think he's breddy gud. I like him a lot.
Oh wow that's pretty cool. The classic mode ending picture is a recreation of the original game's box art.
>>320352930
>His fully charged down-b (finishing touch) serves to make Little Mac feel inadequate
Not really, it's an inferior KO punch in every considerable way. FT can only kill mid 60s, KO punch kills at half of that.
>>320342983
Does Finishing Touch have a sweetspot I don't know about? It doesn't seem that strong to me.
>>320345912
Please, she's Palutena 2.0. Looks OP as shit in trailers, but probably won't be nearly as OP in reality.
>>320346713
>His grab game is weak, but at early percentages his dthrow can combo into forward special, an easy 30 percent.
That doesn't combo, you can shield it easily even at 0%
>>320370272
Wii U All-Star is even better
>>320373047
It deals literally 1% in damage, always. However, it's got the knockback of a fully charged Smash, and it comes out faster.
So it's best and only use is the be the, how do you say it, "finishing touch".
Every cloud player camps and charges their limit break.
Seriously, they have more tents pitched than a Link, Samus, and Dedede threesome.
>>320373047
It's pretty consistent for me, and basically
>Is opponent at 60%?
>Y: Dead
>N: Waste
I'm having a bit of trouble hitting it against opponents who don't roll though, but I think it might just be my inexperience.
Have sword fighters ever been any better than mid tier?
>>320362187
>shields
But his attacks have such low end lag that he can grab real easily.
That's my beef with Cloud; his attacks are so difficult to punish, especially if you're playing someone defensive (read: all cloud players) and he can KO so easily.
People expected another Ike, but his power has a tradeoff in speed.
>>320373728
Melee says "hi".
Also, Link is in the upper rankings.
>>320342983
>>320343918
>I don't know how to play as Cloud.
The whole point of his character is to build up limit break.
Oh so Cloud isnt that good? Lame.
How's Lucas? Sorry if the Q is a little late, but havent really heard the general consensus on him.
>>320342983
Pay 2 Lose - Nintendo pioneering new things yet again.
IT'S INNOVATIVE YOU FUCK
>>320366707
It's literally a 60_50 where you always have the upper hand. Stop bitching. Only Sheik and Fox have better uair traps.
Also why the hell is Cloud's logo "F F" rather than freaking meteor?
>>320372890
>>320376558
Shit, posting on my phone is Hitler
I meant 50/50 of course
>>320376628
Maybe some other asshole designed it and didnt want them using it? It's not too big of a dealbreaker anyways.
>>320342983
>Your best bet is to spam blade beam and look for openings to punish your opponent
Attack, jump back, wait for an opening to attack again.
What a novel concept.
>>320372890
His down B can kill Bowser at 50 with rage and full DI. Also, you don't lose it if you get hit twice, so it's much more flexible.
>>320354917
Seriously, Cloud feels like you're playing Melee. You kill at much lower percentages than other characters.
>>320376628
Because it's FF and it uses the FF font?
>>320376628
They can't use the meteor because then it wouldn't make sense when they addLightning
>>320342983
Seems like he is the Luigi of the swordsmen in smaah
>>320378407
He's the little mac of them actually
just because it's early doesn't mean you can't draw and for the most part see some conclusions about him. Anyone can see he has a severe lack of a combo game, he has some nair fast falls and some up tilt combos but that's it. His grab game is shit in a game where grabbing is good and anyone can see how atrocious his recovery is.
Having said that his positives are shinning. That nair has so much range it's a godly space tool, all his moves auto cancel so you can apply heavy pressure. His blade beam cancels out projectiles, I found it effective for shutting ZSS Stun Gun spam down.
Overall I see him being a mid tier. That recovery is just trash but I can see some kill set ups to be discovered.
Don't worry about Bayonetta. Having all those combos mean she isn't going to have a lot of moves to have high knock back meaning she will have limited kill options. Corrin is the one id be worried about.
>>320373067
Just like Ryu :^)
>First Impression
He's like a cross between Little Mac and Ike in terms of gameplay. A swordsmen with magical swordsmanship and a charge counter which allows for buffs like increased stats and special attacks.
>Pros
Plays similarly to Little Mac in that the initial part of the game is his meter build up and once you do get your meter all the way up, players try to avoid every single move you duke out. His meter is better than Little Mac's because it allows for a number of increased special moves, better stats, and even a killing blow move, which Mac can only do with his full meter.
His down aerial spike is great and easy to land. He actually has a lot of great edge game due to the length of his sword and his side special.
His down+A is weird, like Dedede's, in that it propels you pretty far forward, but I enjoy it for mix ups.
>Cons
Horrible recovery. Trying to get use to not hitting a button again during the recovery frames of his up special. Even with the limit broken recovery, I have too much trouble reaching the ledge.
Overall, I'd rank his gameplay as maybe a 7 or 8 out of 10, with his tournament ranking probably at high C or low B tier. I don't know if I say his moveset reflects his FF7 gameplay. Definitely not as close as, say, Mega Man, who is perfectly incarnated in Sm4sh.
>>320357015
>get someone to 90% with Nair combos and bike mix ups
>fast fall Dair into half waft for the stock
Wario is truly the cheese master.
Why no one ever takes him seriously is beyond me, but damn do I love it when people sleep on me and they get 2stocked with ease every time.
>>320373562
This made me chuckle. And thinking on it, I was doing that for the couple hours I played last night, too.
lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjXTc2G9Qo
>One of Cloud's victory animations taken directly from Dissidia Final Fantasy
It's the little things.
I found Cloud is a very good counter against Sonic. Make sure you use him if you're up against someone using Sonic.
