mfw i finally got to the end of Mass Effect 3. Jesus, what happened?
You tasted the rainbow.
Typical goobergator, feeling entitled to satisfying endings.
Now shovel more EA garbage up your ass, fuccboi.
was the ending really the worst part of the game?
it was pretty consistently garbage, i thought
i understand the controversy of bioware saying there wouldn't be just ABC endings, and then they literally gave ABC endings, but to me the rest of the game was still notably bad
>>320105112
This, the rest of the game is garbage except maybe 1 or 2 parts tops but it always gets ignored in favor of shitting on the ending
3 years late to the disappointment.
>>320104698
Bad writing
>>320105002
>>320105112
The parts that shitted me off about the ending was the ABC aspect but also the "Machines will eventually take over so we made machines to take over in case machines take over" It's really stupid.
Watch this video and shit bricks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck
>>320105203
Plenty of the game is bad yeah. but the ending leaves to worst taste because its the last thing experienced so it should have been written better or more thought out.
>>320105280
Even though you proved that machines and living things can live with the geth and quarians
>>320105112
Tuchanka was great, but I got really worried when got to the Geth/Quarian bit.
The Geth's motivation went from 'hey let's leave the organics alone and build like a huge ass dyson sphere" to "we want to be a real boy," which was a complete reversal of their motivations and what made them cool in Me2.
And then the ending just ruined the entire fucking series. I tried to go back and play them, but I just couldn't.
most of your choices from the previous games didn't matter
I thought the worst part of the ending was this fucking splash screen.
What an insult "now that you've finished this shit you can look forward us more money"
Cunts.
>>320104698
Every other biodrone, every fanboy, when they hear about this, they're going to hate us...You know that right?
>>320106520
you know it was mainly reddit that cause an uprorar about it right?
>>320104698
Casey Hudson happened.
>>320105837
>part of the ending
It's the first thing that happens when you go back to the main menu after the credits roll. ME2 had the same thing.
I picked engineer what the hell is wrong with me
>>320108197
Yeah, but ME2 had a kickass ending that made you feel like a hero, especially if you did everything right and got everyone through the final mission alive. ME3 punches you in the gut and then asks if you'd like to pay to be punched again.
>>320105112
I say this as someone who was a Biodrone at the time was that the rest of the game was decent to tolerable, but the ending was a real kick to the face. It was enough to make me stop being one.
And judging from the uproar that occurred on BSN at the time, I wasn't the only biodrone they lost that day.
>>320104698
Why didn't they just stop here?
>>320106520
>>320106650
BioWare fans exploded at them. Only the most normy of normies were defending them.
>>320105280
Reapers are part living part organic
>>320108813
Doesn't change the fact that the basic logic is "We'll kill you so you don't get killed."
I am still mad
EA + the tumblr hugbox that will defend anything so long as they get their gay romance scenes
>>320105112
>>320105203
this really gets glazed over in favor for shitting on the ending
the whole game was a mess, everyone seems to have forgot about all the horrible "shepard now has PTSD because a child he knew for five seconds died go chase his ghost in these woods for five minutes" in addition to the complete lack of any meaningful side quests AND all the horrible shit like chunk slabchest and that fucking IGN reporter they hamfisted into the game
also there was like no hubs and the citadel was small as fuck with nothing to it, the whole "readiness" or whatever thing was just fucking terrible and didn't mean shit
and then we get into the bugs, the lazy shit like using literal sprites for shit, the tiny game environments and all the horrid scripted ebin action sequences
fuck i need to stop talking about it
>>320109186
Also the fucking space ninja and Cerberus suddenly being some fucking superpower with an army rivaling the fucking Earth's.
>>320105415
>going from we want to be our own to we want to be a real boy
I'll try to find it again. But the writer who wrote everything for the Geth and Legion in ME1 and ME2 originally wanted the Geth to be these detached humanoid beings with no emotions, yet understanding. He details how he was forced to make it "we want to be a real boy" and slap on N7 armor and hole simply because a producer thought it was cool looking.
>>320109271
>Also the fucking space ninja
oh my fucking god i actually completely forgot about that
also the fucking butchering they did with ashley williams, what the fuck was that. she looked like a monster
>>320105410
And the quarians were the ones who struck first. Twice. Kind of goes against the whole "created will always destroy the creators" thing.
>>320105415
>>320109327
Found it
https://web.archive.org/web/20130120045453/http://www.holdtheline.com/threads/me2-writer-chris-letoile-on-the-ai-characters-and-the-reapers.4229/
They ran out of time and money so they made a mentally challenged intern write it 5 minutes before shipping the game.
But hey, there are so many fun colors, right?
>>320105415
>The Geth's motivation went from 'hey let's leave the organics alone and build like a huge ass dyson sphere" to "we want to be a real boy,"
How does the "real boy" thing even work? The geth are programs; the things we see walking around are vehicles they drive like we drive a car. Every ship and mobile platform has tons of geth in it. Do they all just get combined into a single consciousness that is now confined to whatever platform they were in at the time?
god just fuck this series. Mass effect 1 set up with so much fucking potential
someone got that thing about the original plot for mass erect? with the dark matter or some shit? way fucking better than "fug :DDD we must destroy you before you destroy yourselves :DDD"
>>320109721
The original idea was that dark energy buildup was slowly destroying the universe, and the Reapers have been spending the last few million years sitting out in dark space trying to figure out how to fix it with no success. They create new Reapers out of various species in the hope that it'll give them a new perspective that will solve the problem. Shepard would have to choose between letting everyone get Reaperized or telling the Reapers to fuck off.
It was really no better than the actual ending.
>>320109650
the previous games say something like the geth are just one thing really, they can be divided and added together but they just increase or decrease in efficiency as this happens. theres no way to even classify them. a single geth AI can be a dozen geth AIs merged, or literally 1 on its own
why create such a sweet new IP only to fucking ruin it
>>320109721
>>320110021
In the Revelation Space novels the Inhibitors/wolves (which are curiously similar to Reapers in execution, down to the 'you can't understand our motivations') were created to keep down spread of organic life to few systems, any highly spread/advanced species had to be wiped out. They were looking forward to two galaxies colliding with each other billions of years in the future and to keep the galaxy inhabitable for organics they would need to move planets/stars away over a period of countless years or otherwise the destruction caused would ensure no life would remain in the galaxy.
Of course no organic race could ever comprehend and event of such size and so far away and be capable of coordinating a rescue effort on galactic size over so many years.
I just don't know. I remember back in the BG2 days when David Gaider was cool.
>>320110418
back in those days he was an underling. now he's running the show because pretty much everyone else in the old guard are long gone
>>320104698
Mass Effect
>hey we're the reapers we're gonna wreck your shit
>seriously don't even try, we're each like a nation and other vaguely lovecraftian nonsense
>AMAZING BIOWARE TRULY THIS IS PULITZER PRIZE MATERIAL
Mass Effect 2
>oh you think you flipped the switch to avert doomsday? think again, we're still coming to wreck your shit anyway
>also if you think going on an epic suicide mission to destroy our base at the galactic core is going to accomplish anything think again, seriously we're coming brah
>BRAVO, BIOWARE, MASTERFUL JUST MASTERFUL, SUCH AN EPIC VILLAIN
Mass Effect 3
>reapers come and wreck everyone's shit
>no matter what you do everyone is implied to either be dead or forced back into the stone age
>WTFKJWLKEEMFKEMFJWOA??!!? WHAT S THI SPEICE OF SHITTT WJAT WA STHE POINT MYCHOICZSZSSSSSSSSSSS
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WERE SERIOUS NO I DIDN'T THINK ANY OF THAT SHIT WAS FOR REAL IT JUST SOUNDED COOL WHAT ARE YOU STUPID OF COURSE I'M SUPPOSED TO WIN WHAT ABOUT MY WAIFU
>>320104698
You feel that emptiness? That hole in your chest, knowing you will never ever do cool shit with your companions?
That's despair knocking at your door.
>>320109413
They also intentionally let the quarians go, and, out of respect for their creators, served as caretakers of quarian planets. So fuck you, Starchild.
>>320105002
inagine this post is essentially waht literally every single site and reviewer except forbes was saying, and you'll begin to have the full ME3 experience
>>320110515
get the fuck out of here hudson, jesus christ did you have an anuerysm writing that you sperg?
shoo shoo back to your containment general
>>320110021
>telling the Reapers to fuck off
That's all I wanted
>>320105297
>all these inconsistencies and nonsensical elements
>never actually meant anything other than bioware actually didnt give a crap about having things make sense
>>320110515
It wasn't inevitable that the Reapers would wreck everyone's shit. From another ME thread:
>There were a couple things they could have used to justify a more conventional victory:
>In ME1 the Reapers' harvest was already behind schedule. Maybe the extra time meant the Council races developed farther than the Reapers anticipated.
>You closed the Citadel relay, so the Reapers would have to get here under normal power, which would take a *really* long time and drain their power reserves, making them weaker.
>We managed to reverse-engineer Reaper-grade weapons by ME2, only two years after first contact with the Reapers.
>The Collector base was probably full of stuff that could help. The only reason anyone destroys it is because the game only lets you give it to Cerberus, which is really fucking stupid.
>In ME2, dark energy is killing a star. Maybe we study that and come up with a plan to lure all the Reapers to one system and use dark energy to make the star go supernova. It could even be a choice where Shepard has to choose whether to sacrifice Earth or an alien world, which would also tie in to one of the series' themes (whether humanity wants to be really independent and human-centric or focus more on integrating into the galactic community).
>ME3 threw all this out the window. The Reapers get here in a few months with no mass relay and are no worse off for it, and the writers pull the Crucible completely out of their ass rather than following up on anything they'd built up, all to force their stupid RGB ending. Fuck that.
Also, if they really wanted to tell the player "You're fucked", they shouldn't have made it possible to get everyone out of the Suicide Mission alive. Among other things, this really set a tone for the series being about beating the odds and doing the impossible. If they wanted the fight against the Reapers to be pointless, they shouldn't have spent so much time having you win when everyone said you'd lose.
>>320108116
>lots of speculation for everyone :^)
OH ITS ALL COMING BACK TO ME IM FUCKING LIVID NOW
>>320110861
Bioware themselves admitted they made it up as they went along. There was no master plan at work.
When i was playing in ME1 back in days i though Reapers will boil down to Gurren Lagann formula.
Boy, i wish it was fucking true.
>be me, casual gamer, 1 year ago
>go to video game store to buy DJ Hero 2
>no DJ Hero 2, so walk away with Mass Effect for 10$ because I heard it's a great game
>get home, smoke a large joint and proceed to start playing
>holy shit
>holy fucking shit
>spend the next 2 weeks playing every night, high as a kite
>come to the conclusion this is the greatest game I've ever played
>buy ME2 the same day I beat ME1
>wow the graphics are so much better but... something doesn't feel right
>read up about how bad ME3 is
>lose interest in ME2 and stop playing 6 hours or so into the game
s-should I resume and continue all the way to ME3 or will I just end up sad and butrhurt like everyone else ?
>>320111454
If even ME2 didn't feel right to you, you probably won't like ME3. The ending alone was enough to completely destroy some people's interest in the series. Maybe watch the endings on Youtube just to see how bad they are, and decide if you're willing to invest yourself in a series that ends that way. It's not like they'll spoil anything, because the endings are completely disconnected from anything that precedes them.
>>320108464
>You done good, son.
>>320111454
At least play to the end of ME2, it's an extremely good game, slightly worse than ME1 in some ways, but way better in others. Play ME3 if you feel like it, I didn't have a problem with the ending.
>>320111037
I agree that it was unprofessional and idiotic to ignore and/or retcon so many things in the subsequent games, however even the original game BY ITSELF had several tonal and logical inconsistencies; it's my sincere belief that the only reason most people attack the ending is because you don't get to be the big damn hero who destroys an eons-old extra-galactic horrorterror and save everybody and have hot action-hero sex with all of your companions.
Almost every work of fiction in existence is bound to have messy causal chains, mischaracterizations, and flat-out plotholes here and there, and as much as it pains me to say it, with games being the emerging medium they are, you see a lot more of those mistakes in them. Mass Effect could have justifiably ended, according to the standard of internal consistency and arc-writing set by the original game and games in its genre or by the same developer, on almost any note. As it is, I personally found the "fling a light into the future" ending much more moving than what a lot of people were clamoring for, and was pleasantly surprised that it was the direction they decided to go in.
>>320111824
>It's my sincere belief that the only reason most people attack the ending is because you don't get to be the big damn hero who destroys an eons-old extra-galactic horrorterror and save everybody and have hot action-hero sex with all of your companions.
Well, that's what the first two games were like. It's not unreasonable to expect, or at least hope, that the third game will be similar.
>As it is, I personally found the "fling a light into the future" ending much more moving than what a lot of people were clamoring for, and was pleasantly surprised that it was the direction they decided to go in.
That's a subjective thing, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Though I think one could argue that that particular ending is more of a "fuck you" from Bioware to the people who raised enough of an outcry to get the Extended Cut made in the first place. It does get triggered by shooting the Starchild after all.
>>320112163
Add on to this post: I would have been okay with that supernova idea. It would have allowed you to win while still having to make sacrifices. That's how I think they could have done "bittersweet" properly, though I think it should also have included an effort to evacuate as many people as possible before you enact the plan.
>>320112163
No I was referring to the original, non-extended cut ending where it was implied(as I saw it, at least) that everyone basically died but that the cycle had finally ended and the next galactic civilization would finally be free from the reapers. Note that it's extremely thematically important to have the mass relays destroyed in this ending -- for as the Geth said in ME2(and a lot of people were upset by the retcon in 3 so if they just took the time to think it through to its logical conclusion they'd see this), every civilization must self-determinate. The very existence of mass effect technology, unless it happened to get independently discovered, would've been a stain on the next civilization(and speaking of callbacks to established lore, I seem to recall references to minor civilizations which developed mass effect alternatives)
Also, as long as we're discussing it, note how the so-called "extended cut" didn't actually resolve any plotholes but just sloppily retconned it to make it tonally closer to the "happily ever after" ending people wanted. And it worked, for the most part. Obviously there are still problems with the ending and some complain about it to this day, but it seems the real galvanizing feature of the movement was removed. That's why I really believe it has everything to do with "happy ending" and little to nothing to do with bad writing.
>>320112780
>No I was referring to the original, non-extended cut ending where it was implied(as I saw it, at least) that everyone basically died but that the cycle had finally ended and the next galactic civilization would finally be free from the reapers. Note that it's extremely thematically important to have the mass relays destroyed in this ending -- for as the Geth said in ME2(and a lot of people were upset by the retcon in 3 so if they just took the time to think it through to its logical conclusion they'd see this), every civilization must self-determinate. The very existence of mass effect technology, unless it happened to get independently discovered, would've been a stain on the next civilization(and speaking of callbacks to established lore, I seem to recall references to minor civilizations which developed mass effect alternatives)
I'm sure that's a great comfort to the billions who will suffer and die as a result of galactic society being completely destroyed. Sorry, but I simply disagree with this philosophy. The mass relays and such aren't a "stain", they're just a tool. If the geth were so serious about that viewpoint, they'd fuck off to some random planet, dismantle all their spaceships (which were likely at least partly based on quarian designs), and wipe their minds of any knowledge they were already programmed with.
If you had some incurable disease and someone from another planet appeared with a cure, would you refuse it because humans didn't "self-determinate" enough to create it themselves?
>That's why I really believe it has everything to do with "happy ending" and little to nothing to do with bad writing.
Well, I personally don't see anything wrong with a happy ending. And even you agree that there were enough things in the series that could have justified one. I think this is just a personal preference thing.
>>320109413
Eh, you need to go back and play ME3 again because what the catalyst actually said was the created will always rebel against their creators, which the Geth did against the Quarians when they Quarians tried to kill them. Also, not once did the Catalyst say that the created would be the cause of the conflict, just that conflict would happen at some point, which again it did.
If you're going to criticize the Catalysts logic, can you at least make sure that you have an understanding of it first?
>>320110648
The Geth let them go because at the time they did not have full understanding and clarity at the prospect of wiping them out, at the end of the Rannoch arc in ME3 however they did, and this time they do not hesitate to kill them all if Shepard sides with them.
>>320109332
All of it would be comical if it wasn't an applicable rule 90% of developers live by.
>>320114567
>Eh, you need to go back and play ME3 again because what the catalyst actually said was the created will always rebel against their creators, which the Geth did against the Quarians when the Quarians tried to kill them.
>the Quarians tried to kill them.
Self-defense isn't rebellion.
>Also, not once did the Catalyst say that the created would be the cause of the conflict, just that conflict would happen at some point, which again it did.
The Starchild says "The created will always rebel against their creators." Typically, when you say someone rebels against someone else, that implies that the rebel is the one who initiates conflict. If there were no rebellion, there would be no conflict; everyone would just be going along with whoever's in charge.
>The Geth let them go because at the time they did not have full understanding and clarity at the prospect of wiping them out, at the end of the Rannoch arc in ME3 however they did, and this time they do not hesitate to kill them all if Shepard sides with them.
Once again, they're acting in self-defense. The quarians struck first. They'd prefer not to wipe out the quarians, but they're backed into a corner.
>>320114567
I'd like to add the thing that's super obvious and that nobody else seems to mention -- the Reapers weren't killing everyone. They killed societies advanced enough to have discovered the mass relays and citadel, the ones which were also capable of creating synthetic life. Everybody else was spared.
The fear was that unchecked, whatever synthetic life was created would actually go on to systematically destroy all organic life in the galaxy, not just the ones that created it. Why does such a protocol exist in the first place? Perhaps that very thing happened in the past, perhaps there was a point millenia ago when all organic life was destroyed, but then the machines became repentant, or maybe they couldn't deal with not having a purpose to fulfill, or maybe the reapers were just designed by some inscrutable extra-dimensional god allegory. All of those are just off the top of my head, and they're miles better than "WE ARE EACH A NATION, SO OBVIOUSLY THAT MEANS WE'RE JUST EVIL AND EXTERMINATE LIFE IN THE GALAXY FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN TO HAVE ACTION HERO MCCOOLDUDE SAVE THE DAY BY DESTROYING US"
If that wasn't enough, another possibility is that the crucible was actually designed by the Reapers themselves, and the cycles have all just been a massive program searching for a solution to the creators versus creations problem. Only a universe in which the races were able to put aside their differences would be able to successfully construct the crucible and put an end to the cycle, and that society would be able to "output" the solution it acquired into the crucible to remake the universe.
>>320115373
Even if that were the case, there are better ways to go about it. Why don't the Reapers just patrol the galaxy like a police force? Or, if they want to mostly leave people alone, maybe they only show up when Skynet is about to take over? Why do they need to mutilate people and melt them alive to create Husks and Reapers, respectively?
>>320115915
I really think bioware wrote themselves into a corner with ME1. They created these insanely old beings who have wiped out all live in the galaxy millions of times over. That's fine. We don't NEED to know the motives, we dont NEED to know the origins of these things. But they wrote themselves in a shit spot when they decided to say the reapers were in "dark space" and then have their "only way" to get here thwarted and the vanguard destroyed.
Doing all this was fine, but it effectively killed the reaper threat for a very VERY long time. even to get to the most out mass relay would have taken years, decades even more. And we fucked that plan too in arrival. So even then they have to take the next closest one which is even MORE time. It's so stupid how they just fucking turn up on our doorstep months after killing the collectors. I really like >>320111037 this idea that they can travel those distances in relatively short time but it takes a ton of power so they are fight-able when they get here. But for them to just rock up at full power? Wtf. And the smaller reaper ships is also stupid. They explain in the first game that reapers fight with pawns and control the most advanced races into bashing the others down. Why were there mini reapers in ME3? I would have much preferred the massive reapers flying around space fucking ship up and all ground battles to be done via husks and fighting indoctrinated races.
And there is a cool mod that ends the game at the extended Anderson scene. Which is pretty great i think. The end goal of shepard has always been kill the reapers, even renegade shep is like "lets blow these cunts up" so why were the ABC options ever there. it was always destory the reapers. and the mod kills the reapers and leaves the geth and edi alone. I feel like bioware put in the abc choice because they couldnt put in a failed option to the story, because lets face it "losing" after 3 games would be a shitty ending.
>>320113471
>>320115915
First of all I'd like to thank you guys for actually having a real debate about this, even if the thread is mostly dead this is the best discussion I've ever had about this.
Second I have to say the more I read into it, the more I realize it really is just a matter of opinion at the end of the day. Why do the Reapers do anything? Why do they exist? With a force that massive, there's either going to be a (semi)realistic explanation or a satisfying one, not both. To be clear, by "satisfying" I mean rendered in such a way that it conforms to some thematic resolution -- whatever tone or symbolism that resolution may possess -- rather than being an ambiguous mess.
For that reason, I suppose I grudgingly have concede that the "best" ending probably would have been one similar to the popular opinion -- after all, it's still a commercial product at the end of the day and if they wanted their artistic integrity they wouldn't have veered way into action hero territory with the second game. That being said I find it ironic that the ending most people would've wanted would've been much more in line with the tone I'm sure was largely dictated by EA, even though those many of those same people blame EA for the ending being "shit"
>>320116724
I'm okay with Bioware contriving some bullshit reason for the Reapers to get here, but yes, they should acknowledge that it's sub-optimal and *will* cause problems for them. Hell, you could even argue that the whole reason for the Reapers' complex invasion plan - decapitation strike on the Citadel, closing the relay network, indoctrination - is precisely because they're not as unbeatable as they claim they are. I once saw a fan-written alternate ending that made this argument pretty convincingly. For all we know, Sovereign was chosen to open the Citadel relay because it was the absolute pinnacle of Reaper power and the only one that could brute force its way to the Citadel if need be.
I also agree that we didn't really need to know all about the Reapers. It's been said that the Reaper plot was always the least interesting part of Mass Effect, and I tend to agree.
>The end goal of shepard has always been kill the reapers, even renegade shep is like "lets blow these cunts up" so why were the ABC options ever there. it was always destory the reapers. and the mod kills the reapers and leaves the geth and edi alone.
I'm convinced that the only reason Destroy kills the geth and EDI is because otherwise, no one would choose anything else. Bioware realized this, so they tacked on an artificial downside.
>>320117183
The only issue I take with this is that you seem to be implying that "happy ending = commercial product" and "sad ending = art".
And I can only speak for myself, but I blame Bioware, not EA, for ME3. More specifically, I blame Hudson and Walters, because they're the ones who wrote the ending.
>>320117552
That's a pretty plausible reason why the destroy killed and the geth. Didn't really think of that.
I really like that idea that Sovereign was the pinnacle of reaper tech. I was kinda miffed when, after setting it up in ME1 to be this horrifying thing, that it was just a flunky and one of the "smaller" reapers. Part of the reason i found reapers so damn intimidating was the ambiguity to them. "you exist because we allow it, you will end because we demand it" That to me is still one of the most intimidating lines in the whole trilogy. Actually probably THE most.
I am quietly optimistic about ME4 because it's dropping the reaper plot. I hope they dont go Buffy syndrome and have an all new bigger badder enemy in the Andromeda galaxy though. Personally i'd be happy if we rock up in that galaxy with other citadel races to find it already populated by other advanced races who just dont want us there. It would be a cool twist to see it as we are the invaders and they are simply defending their home and would rather we fuck off and not take planets in the name of the milky way. But i highly doubt Bioware would go that way, they write shit way too cuddly these days.
>>320118084
> "you exist because we allow it, you will end because we demand it" That to me is still one of the most intimidating lines in the whole trilogy. Actually probably THE most.
And precisely the kind of thing you'd expect to hear from a race that relies on sneak attacks, decapitation strikes, cutting off supply lines, literal psychological warfare, and mystery, but might not be able to win a stand up fight against a united galaxy.
>>320118014
I do have that bias, although I do think there is some real truth to the statement. Don't get me wrong -- I don't think there is actually anything *intrinsically* better about sad endings, it's just that it's comparatively rarer to find a poorly thought-out sad ending than a happy one.
As for me, I've always been interested in finding out more about the Reapers, because I've always preferred stories with big themes and philosophy rather than character-driven dramas, and when you deal with forces that large you go into some pretty heavy philosophical territory. With the Reapers being what they are, I honestly don't see a way to write a completely happy ending with anything other than "yeah the Reapers were just pure evil for the sake of it" no matter how much you try to disguise it with "well actually they had some complex motivation but IT IS MERELY BEYOND THE KEN OF MORTALS"
>>320118352
I wouldn't be surprised if they even influenced galaxy development in a way so that the races that DID develop would be incompatible at a base level. The only real decent reason as the WHY they do what they do is to let races advance enough to a point where they could gain something from them, like they harvest the galaxy each time to gain tech to further themselves. And in resetting the galaxy each time so to speak they let the "primitives" remain and see they would inherently clash. Turians and humans for example.
>>320109186
I wonder if he's still mad
>>320118480
>As for me, I've always been interested in finding out more about the Reapers, because I've always preferred stories with big themes and philosophy rather than character-driven dramas
For most people, including myself, the appeal of Mass Effect was that it was a character-driven drama. People played the games to have adventures with Garrus and not because the Reaper plot explored deep metaphysical or philosophical issues. 90 percent of ME2 is about the individual characters and their personal struggles. I think you might have been looking for something that wasn't there.
>With the Reapers being what they are, I honestly don't see a way to write a completely happy ending with anything other than "yeah the Reapers were just pure evil for the sake of it" no matter how much you try to disguise it with "well actually they had some complex motivation but IT IS MERELY BEYOND THE KEN OF MORTALS"
ME2 provided a perfectly serviceable motivation - they need to harvest us to make more of themselves. There didn't have to be anything else, and giving them quasi-noble motivations, as both the actual ending and the dark energy ending do, massively conflicts with the outright evil things they do (indoctrination, husks, melting people, etc.). I also tend to think "You can't possibly understand their motivations" is more of an excuse for lazy writing than anything else.
>>320110418
>I remember back in the BG2 days when David Gaider was cool.
Then you remember a different timeline.
I love that i created a thread that ended up being a better discussion than anything on the mass effect generals. ME has such a rich universe and its a real shame it got spoiled by shitty writing and waifu wars.
>>320119308
Don't get me wrong I got pretty attached to the characters as well, and I'm aware that Bioware and many WRPG developers for that matter tend to make games with a much more personal focus. Obviously big theming and philosophy is something that a lot of developers have tried to do recently and I'll be the first to admit they've almost all been failures, many of them hugely so. But that doesn't stop me from believing it's not worth trying or that the two goals are incompatible.
>>320120069
Im on both sides of character story and a greater meaning story. I feel like we can still think philosophically about the reapers as a whole. if we ignore the shitty exposition given to them. i mean before ME2 and 3 i had many discussions about them and their motivations
they rushed the game and changed the plot that the first 2 games were building up to at the last minute, the new one completely contradicting a large chunk of what you just did in 3. they realized this and tried to justify it, but they failed horribly at not making the ghost child's plan sound completely retarded, so they just rolled with it cause he's basically star jesus and knows best. so now shepard is a little bitch and just gives in and you die. the end.
and not a single ending where all of your resources matter and you can beat the reapers without bending over to them because fuck you for rejecting us. you want to reject? we kill everyone as shepard just sits there and cries to himself and we hint that the next generation obeyed the commands instead.
IT STILL FUCKING HURTS
>>320109413
not just that, the geth merely scared the quarians off the planet because they rebelled. they didn't pursue and they weren't hostile.
the only time the geth actually were a threat to anyone is when the reapers were controlling their actions and thoughts.
>>320111665
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzEPBPt7zEs
Marauder shields did nothing wrong
The extended ending dlc made the ending bearable.
Its not half as bad as it waa at launch, bioware are mvps for patching it for the fans.
>>320120918
Why this was shortened in the final game is beyond me. So stupid. It adds more meaning to their relationship and certainly a better send off to Anderson but instead they cut nearly 70% of it.
>>320108314
Too bad the rest of me2 was worthless. The entire plot was basicallly 1 big side quest.
>>320121310
I thought the same when they announced the extended cut. But it was just a glorified slideshow. The MEHEM makes it way better imo
>>320120802
And the Reapers were some kind of techno-organic hybrid. The most dangerous beings in the ME universe were neither synthetics nor organics, but a fusion of the two. Kind of takes the wind out of Synthesis' sails, doesn't it?
>>320110515
nice strawman, that's not what people complained about.
>The reasoning of why the reapers did what they did was flawed and you weren't even allowed to point that out
>basically having you choose between three endings at the end was just the very thing the said there weren't going to do
>The unlikeliness of Shepherd falling on a piedestal that then transports him to Starchild
>Starchild existing at all
>None of the choices you make at the end at anyway reflects your choices during the rest of the game. It's not your ending - it's Biowares three endings
>Different colors, same cinematic
>Destroying all the Mass Effect-relays should effectively wipe out almost all life from the galaxy
My main gripe is basically that none of the choices you made through the trilogy matters for the ending and that's a huge deal - because even though we loved the games we always had to accept that all choices in the games always were GOOD,BAD, NEUTRAL and that's really shitty if there aren't any promised personal variability towards the end game. But there were none. Basically, you got the the same three choices always got. All complexity of the make your own adventure effectively dies with that.
>>320121436
Yeah but its more than what they needed to do for the fans with major time and money constraints.
At least it makes sense now. The shits dont explode and destroy the galaxies, theres an explanation for joker leaving with your companiond, the star child is more fleshed out now that he explains more ifyou ask and you can flat out say no.
They didnt just add the slideshow at the end.. but its still nice to get real closure with them.
>>320121408
The Collector base could have vindicated ME2's existence relative to the main plot. The things it contained should have been vital to defeating the Reapers. Destroying it should have crippled us. The only reason anyone blows it up is because if you keep it, you can only give it to TIM and not the Council or the Alliance.
Instead, ME3 reduces it to about a hundred "war assets".
>>320121628
Not the guy youre replying to.
The extended cut dlc adds slideshows which give each ending differences and closure.
Also they changed it so the relays arnt destroyed completly, only the small rings inside them.
>>320111824
No seriously, it's just shitty because, even if it was flawed and had flawed logic - I would've accepted it if it weren't CHOOSE A, B AND C at the end.
It should've been like... all your actions through the entire trilogy would suddenly matter. Did you save the Rachni Queen? Maybe she would jump through the window and tell Shepherd to not to listen to Starchild. Is Wrex home fucking his wife and Grunt still alive? Grunt rushes in and shoots the The Illusive Man before he even gets a chance to spread his lies. Did you make the Geth come to terms with Quarians? Legion shows and reasons with the Reaper-Starchild. If you didn't, they just know they are right and won't listen to you.
Etc
SO MANY THINGS YOU DID that in the end doesn't matter. That's the biggest let down of the ending
>>320121993
I saw them and they kinda suck even more to be honest. Your choice is becoming a Reaper, making everyone green synth-Jesus-people and possible survive and destroy all reapers.
Also
>>320122074
>>320121628
>The unlikeliness of Shepherd falling on a piedestal that then transports him to Starchild
>Starchild existing at all
Come to think of it, Shepard should have failed in ME1, because the Starchild should have been able to open the Citadel relay himself. In fact, none of ME1 should have happened at all. Sovereign didn't need to be there. There was no need for someone to signal the Keepers.
The Starchild is the single biggest plot hole in the series. His very existence sends the entire narrative crashing down.
>>320122329
That was always the shitty ending everyone hated though, they just made it make nore sense and fleshed out the idea.
Dont get me wrong, I wish they did what they promised us too.. but its not nearly.as bad as it was onlaunch.
>>320122074
All your choices that should have had much more tangible effects got abstracted down to numbers of war assets. "Your choices matter" - in only the most technical sense of the word.
>>320122708
The whole "choices matter" was such bullshit. It became really apparent to me because i was playing through each game while my cousin was and we made different choices along the way and ME3 was pretty much the same game for both of us. it REALLY pissed me off when he killed the rachni queen only to have another convenient queen stashed away and is always a husk! DUNDUNDUUUUUN
>>320122708
I think it is a great shame to because a lot of choices has to do with recruiting allies and they are just reduced to numbers. I mean, the games kinda wanted to have some softcore-politics in them, but they never really got realized. The should've done so much more with it - like you get two unlikely allies to fight together but if you didn't fix Issue A they are suddenly going to turn on againgst eachother at the last battle or something
You know, now that I think about it, it was pretty stupid of the Council races to base their government at the Citadel. You've got this massive structure you don't entirely understand, and it's constantly being altered and manipulated by a bunch of unknown alien beings who never communicate with you in any way. Not only do you not try to study these aliens, you make it illegal for anyone to even try. I find it kind of hard to believe that every single spacefaring civilization throughout the eons fell for it. You'd think at least one of them would decide that even if they use it, they're not going to base their whole government there.
>>320105112
The original ending was actually better than most of the game.
The extended ending was notably worse than its worst parts, though.
>>320121028
The hero we all deserved
I am still, still mad. My anger continues to burn hot, like the inside of a forgotten and slowly darkening sun. Sometimes, I think I am no longer mad, then something reminds me that I am mad. When I wake up in the morning, i'm mad. When I drive to work, i'm mad. As I stand in my place of employment, smiling to customers and joking with co-workers, secretly I am mad. When I go home and hold my baby boy, who I love very much, I am mad. As I prepare dinner alongside my beautiful wife, I am mad.
When I lay down in bed, I am still mad. When I make love to my wife, I am mad, plunging into her with the unsated fury of a man wronged. She loves it, and thinks it's the new lingerie she bought - but actually, I am mad.
When I talk to my therapist, I am mad. I can tell he fears me. He does not understand the purity of my anger, how it can burn white hot for so long, behind a veneer of civility and social adeptness. I look at him, and I tell him: I know I shouldn't be, but I am mad.
As I age, I will still be mad. My fury will condense into my skeletal structure, bleaching it black with the hatred and bile I keep sealed inside of me, secrets I must never unleash lest it destroy everyone I love. All will wonder what disease it is that causes me to waste away to an early grave, and no doctor will cure me. And when I finally die, all of my bound up odium will unleash itself, causing my body to burst into flames and erupt into a geyser of acidic blood, laying waste to all the unfortunates who stand nearby my hospital bed. And from the gaping maw of my opened chest cavity, I will throw open a portal from whatever blighted hell dimension my soul has traveled to with the sheer power of my mad. And as I stride forth, slicked crimson with my own blood, born anew to rain terror and destruction on this world I once loved, seven horns shall trumpet and seven seals will break. And as my wings and serpentine heads tear forth from my shoulders and back, I will scream, "I'M STILL MAD."
>>320121628
...And here we have the prime example of why I get my jimmies so rustled by this discussion. I really shouldn't, and don't, want to say it because it's just going to set this discussion on the one-way track to shitpostville, but it really is the most appropriate way to describe it: entitlement.
Of the points you listed, four have nothing to do with narrative integrity or writing quality, and one is a ridiculous nitpick that could be applied to almost every scenario in every ficitonal work ever. The only thing I'll say about those points is that if you seriously expected there to be sixteen *distinct* endings, I don't know how you've managed not to become homeless spending your money on scams. As far as any one individual having a direct impact on the fate of the galaxy, such as >>320122074 suggested, that would be even more ridiculous and contrived than your gripe about Shepard landing on the pedestal.
Of the remaining two points -- the rationale behind the reapers/cycles and the existence of the starchild -- these are systemic issues which existed since the first game and are not the sole fault of the third or even second. Bioware essentially wrote themselves into a corner with the Reapers -- there was no way they could even come up with a believable or satisfying justification for them, so they did the adolescent thing and tried to put it off until the last minute which is why their motive is so poorly thought out and why its exposition takes place in a hastily tacked-on cutscene as opposed to spread out throughout the narrative. As it is, if you apply a similar magnifying glass to other aspects of the plot, you come up with similar inconsistencies, so if your gripe is truly with the writing quality and not the tone as you say, why are issues like >>320123863 never brought up?
>>320121408
I don't understand this argument. Ignoring the main "plot" of the reaper invasion (which we solved in ME1 ffs) so we could have a fun adventure in the universe they had established was a brilliant decision.
Returning to the invasion in ME3 was dumb as fuck and half the reason the game turned out as godawful as it did.
More "big side quest" games would have been great.
>>320125131
Obviously they could've decided to just retcon the Reapers into generic bad guys with no complex motivation so that the character-driven, badass hero elements would survive, but then the entire potential behind the cycles and the existence of mass effect itself would similarly be relegated to genre wallpaper. You act like the choice is "obvious," and that Bioware are a bunch of incompetent lazy hacks for choosing otherwise, but from a purely narrative standpoint, the two approaches are equal.
m-muh dark matter
>>320118685
that's anon secret...always mad , never stop to his deathbed
>>320105002
Got some Kotaku flashbacks here.
>>320125131
People didn't want "sixteen endings" or whatever. They wanted the big decisions they made throughout the series to have tangible effects on the story instead of just increasing some numbers. As for one person have such a huge impact, that's just how stories like this work. It's like complaining that you can survive more than one gunshot or something.
Regarding the Reapers and their motivations, ME2 showed us enough. They want to use us as raw materials. They should have stopped there. Starchild shouldn't exist at all, for many reasons, including >>320122435.
Also, I don't think it's "entitled" to be upset when Bioware took your money and not only failed to deliver on their promises, but did exactly what they said they *wouldn't* do (pic related).
>>320126232
>>320118685
>>320109186
I think he is >>320125095
>>320109186
>my first : wat ?
>my second play : really ?
>mfw
There is no 3rd time...and never
>>320105112
No. Kai Leng was infinitely worse. The ending just stuck with you because of how it destroyed the franchise.
>>320104698
Hudson and Walters locked themselves in a room and shat out that fucking thing to meet deadlines. God it was so bad.
>>320108419
We'll see with ME:A sales just how many Biodrones they lost.
Probably not that many, Biodrones are battered housewives.
>>320126393
>Hudson and Walters locked themselves in a room and shat out that fucking thing to meet deadlines. God it was so bad.
They also did it without consulting the other writers, whereas everything else was written as a large group effort.
>>320125095
Pirate ME:A then, and never preorder, or buy another Bioware game again.
On a lighter note, I find it amusing that the Reapers' harbinger is named Sovereign and the Reapers' sovereign is named Harbinger.
>mfs people thought ME3 would follow up on any of your choices in a meaningful manner after ME2 (which is still the worst game in the trilogy) failed to do so on its own and ended in a mission that guarenteed 9/10 of your squad members couldn't be major characters in 3 since it'd be a waste of resources when most players would have several of them die
I was telling you retards for YEARS that ME2 had doomed the trilogy and NOBODY listened.
>>320126705
>Tfw Weekes got thrown over to DA for revealing the truth
At least he's LW and seems to actually be taking the franchise in a good direction with Trespasser. Ducking Walters is in fucking charge of ME now, God help us all. I just know he's going to try the shitty created vs. creators theme again. Probably will shove Cerberus shit in it too.
>>320127012
Everyone was too busy fapping to waifus to care about the story. It took ME3 taking their waifus away to wake people up.
At least it taught us not to buy any EA or Bioware game ever again, and just pirate it if absolutely necessary.
>>320105112
A lot of people say ME3 wasn't that bad, but I couldn't disagree more.
How mass effect's reaper war should have been resolved.
instead of having all the sentient races categorically deny the existence of the reapers, your actions throughout the first two games should have led to specific races taking steps to prepare for them. So if you were a pro-human, anti-xeno shep, the human race is well prepared and holds off the initial invasion, however you are sent out to rally the other races for a big battle. If you were a pro-alieum shep, earth gets buttfucked and you are sent out to rally the other races to help. Two distinct story "paths" that wouldn't have taken more than a few different cut scenes and maybe 20-30 different voice dialogues to implement.
Remove the retarded "catalyst", you win by getting enough ships/troops to fight the reapers.
Reapers should have been able to indoctrinate certain races during the game, so if you rush to help one species, you may lose another. So you could save the batarians, but lose the human planets in the out rim, or save the krogan, but lose the salarians, or you can save the asari, but would lose the Tarians.
Why did people act like the ending was the only problem? The game was consistently shit. The Krogan stuff was the only thing decent about the story and gameplay wise it was a mediocre TPS.
>>320125131
You should've killed yourself back when this game came out Hudson
>>320109186
the game went downhill
the story didn't make any fuckin sense
the leviathan DLC made less sense even
shepard with PTSD was ridiculos
the catalyst thing at the end was the worst part, the fact that they had to make up some unreasonable plot twist so they could tell you that you had a choice, when you are actually only manipulated into picking your favorite color
don't touch my gay romance games tho
