Just been thinking about the genre for a bit. I am no means bad at fighting games not great either, i play almost all fighting games all well, But down to my question I was wondering if fighting games just took too long to get into. Most newcomers to the fighting genre have to spend months of practicing to even start the real meta wich is baiting, reads, footses ect, and from time to time i notice some game are even intimidating to a casual player, Dispite games like skull girls gaving a rather easy to do begginer combos many people feel that the combos are "too long" And games like Street fighter are "too strict" Im stil seeing these same complaints about ST5 as well even considering that one is super easy to combo in. at least imo. Should fighting games be complex? If not how would you make them accessible and fun? And would said said lack of complezity take away from game depth?
Sol's dust literally doesn't make any sense. Not like it did before or anything but now it makes less sense.
Go play Rising Thunder.
And realize how making the game "simple" also makes it really dull.
>>319971113
In earlier games he would headbutt DOWNWARDS.
It makes plenty sense in this one, he rips the ground up and tosses them upwards.
With the exception that is the smash brothers series, fighting games designed for casual players don't seem to take off do they.
simplify them all you want fact is casuals are going to drop the game sooner rather than later to move on to the next hyped game
>>319970841
They are too complex because the complexity is non-value added.
The complexity doesn't add additional options, just allows the player to make mistakes and do sub-optimal damage.
None of that matters if the player base is large enough. If you can find matches close to your skill level, then your inability to do full damage combos won't impact how much fun you have playing the game.
The problem is that the fighting game community hasn't had a playerbase like that since the early 90's/
>>319971460
I agree with this
Personally i feel how skull girls normals connect is the best for the fighting genre, to bad they killed it with OMG SUpeR ExtRA MeGa (take a poop while your at it) combos,
Give me a fighter with normals like skullgirls, shorter combos like streetfighter, simple yet deep options. i think it would bee a really good game.
>>319971262
Yes, he strikes them down and they fly up. In xrd, he just turns his torso while putting his lighter in the ground and rocks fly.
>>319971954
Are you blind? He uses his hand to tear the ground up and sends you flying.
>>319970841
No.
Anything that is competitive will by it's nature have different levels you can play at. Chess is a very complex game but that is the reason people still play it. Nobody gives a shit about things like Smash 4 because it does exactly what you say. Melee is a great example of "easy to get into for anybody" and "extremely hard to master."
>>319972229
I think so, but I really don't see it. His hand isn't in a position that looks like it just dug up some ground
It's been confusing me for a year now and I just accept that it's retarded.
>>319972386
Not the OP but i think fighting games should be alot more like chess where it involves getting into your opponents head rather than muscle memory.
>>319970841
why is this meme so popular on /v/ now?
its is because the biggest surge of new users are children from neogaf, who started gaming this generation?
take your fucking whining elsewhere and enjoy your autoplay moviegames.
It's only complex when you make it complex. I know next to nothing about cancels, spacing or any of that. I can block, I can hit, I try to hit as much as I can and occasionally use a special.
If you're too lazy to even learn a moveset then yeah you'll get your ass kicked because all you're doing is mashing buttons. There is complexity but as long as you have a basic idea on how to operate your character of choice and control the game in general you'll do fine in most battles.
The most casual a 2D fighter's gotta is Persona 4 Arena with the autocombo system, not counting Smash of course. It isn't as fun as finally being able to rev up a winning streak or hit that flashy finisher dead on.
If you took the deeper elements of a fighter out, it's more boring as a whole for everyone. The best you can do is make a really good tutorial.
>>319972926
>only reads the subject title.
>>319972971
Does tech skill = depth?
>>319973157
Well yeah, there's a lot of underlying mechanics which lend themselves to the overal meta, stuff most people don't pay attention to.
Jesus, PCkeks are pathetic
No. Don't turn fighting games into CoD shit. If you want a brain-dead game, stick to western games. You sound like a casual NeoFagger.
>>319972671
SFIV tried to do that and it got called slow and boring.
SFV is trying to take it even further.
>>319970841
So your saying that instead for tech skill perhaps there hould be a fighting games that while has plenty oh simple- harder combos the core of it would be pitting the playing the player wits against eachother.
So instead of Tech> mindgames
your proposing Mindgames>tech?
If so I would like to try a game like that.
>>319973553
Street fighter has always been slow compared to other fighters.Aint ST4 the most trict ST ever? i don't understand.
>>319973783
1 frame links are bullshit but other than that not particularly.
It does take a short while to get some fundamentals down in fighting games, but once you do, that knowledge usually readily transfers from one game to another. There are always the same types of characters, like your zoner or brawler, and a lot of the attacks are the same inputs, like 2C being your anti-air, or 236 fireballs and 623 dragon punches. It is just a matter of identifying the character in the game, and then working out any gimmicks they might have.
The problem is that it is difficult to find someone at the same skill level you are at, especially for new players. When a new shooter comes out, people have to learn the maps, learn where power ups are at, etc. Fighting games are all the same: two characters face each other on a level scrolling screen with two walls on either side. So when a new fighting game comes out, people who have a lot of fundamental skills will destroy anyone trying to play the game for the first time, with no learning curve. That's mainly what drives the new players out and causes them to quit, because they feel they don't have a chance.
>>319974017
aint that what made the game unfun for most? Normals that 1 frame connect or even input buffer are fucking stupid.
>>319973783
SF4 is lenient with inputs. The game will correct your inputs so your shoryuken comes out on the right side and you don't even need to input a SRK motion
>>319974181
so basically your saying the fighting genre needs a larger player base like this anon said>>319971460
and if so the lingering question is, is it possible to make a fighting game, that works for both casuals and hardcore.if we are counting smash i guess smash does this pretty well then.
>>319974181
What? There is basic skills in shooters too, yet people don't quit when they first start out because they don't have skills.
>>319971195
This.
I'm a scrub at fightan games but RT is pretty lame. I prefer USF4
Nidhogg, lethal league, and divekick are all examples of fighting games that have been distilled to be super simple as far as being able to do stuff but still having competitive depth.
Divekick and lethal league literally just have a jump button and one attack button, and nidhogg is a bit more complex but is still way more simple theen 99.99% of other fighting gamees.
Skullgirls is more of a traditional fighter but none of it's inputs are super complex and there's not obscenely specific spacing/timing to continue combos with most moves unless you are doing super high level shit too.
>>319972671
Check out Nidhogg, Lethal league, and divekick. All are pretty much ntirly about outhinkiing the other person and reaction time.
>>319970841
>Just been thinking about the genre for a bit. I am no means bad at football games not great either, i play almost all football games all well, But down to my question I was wondering if football games just took too long to get into. Most newcomers to the football genre have to spend months of practicing to even start the real meta wich is baiting, reads, juking ect, and from time to time i notice some game are even intimidating to a casual player, Dispite games like tennis gaving a rather easy to do begginer combos many people feel that the combos are "too long" And games like nfl are "too strict" Im stil seeing these same complaints about ST5 as well even considering that one is super easy to combo in. at least imo. Should football games be complex? If not how would you make them accessible and fun? And would said said lack of complezity take away from game depth?
>>319971858
>shorter combos like Street Fighter
Insanely boring. Game is all resets and defense is slow and boring.
>>319970841
The only way to make fighting games less complex would be to dumb it down. And dumbing it down would make it boring.
To make it casual and fun and interesting, you'd have to change genres and make something more party-like like Smash or Power Stone. Which would be fine because I love Power Stone and Smash
>>319972671
They are like that, but you are shit at them so you think they are about muscle memory.
>>319973783
Alpha 3 is the best SF game and it's not slow.
Pic relateds pvp system has the simplest and easy combo skeme iv ever seen and yet the competitive play is intense as shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyYgOBTNbF0
>>319970841
lol fuck no. on the other hand links can go fuck themselves they are probably the reason why the genre is so niche in the first place when casuals cant pull off combos they see in vids.
>>319972671
That is what fighting games are about. The muscle memory thing is an overblown-by-scrubs part of entry.
>>319974181
>>319974632
I think it's more that there's room to breathe in shooters. In shooters you can wander around a bit and you're not constantly being shot at in the way that you'd be constantly getting charged and stomped in a fighting game. There's no where to run in a fighting game
>>319975437
>I think it's more that there's room to breathe in shooters.
I'd say there's even less. If you don't have good reflexes you might as well quit competitively. Because 99% of shooters rely on reaction time and the ones that didn't died out fast.
>>319975581
Stuff like Halo and Call of Duty have plenty of downtime though.
We are talking about casual shooters right?
Maybe just a tad. I really wouldn't want them to change as a whole, though.
If you want something more simple you can play MKX I guess. I wouldn't want to ruin the fun for the top tier at all.
This is what happens when you release fighting games on PC.
They bitch about how hard the game is to get into because they are scrubs.
Hey, I'm a scrub too, but OP is a pathetic shit.
Stop whining and just keep practicing.
>>319975690
Halo maybe. But Call of Duty has always been a mess of explosive spam, bad respawns, and hopes of scoring the next kill as fast you can. Sure it's braindead and all. But it's a fucking mess of a game.
>>319975843
Op here i play onps4
>>319975967
I assumed because it was too much of a coincidence that XRD just released on PC.
