Is Joel a bad person?
What decision would you have made with Ellie?
Fuck the fireflies
>>319907040
The point is that he was being selfish. He doomed humaity for a daughter complex. I thought it was actually a very interesting ending.
FUNGUS CAN'T BE VACCINATED AGAINST
>>319907757
the form of treatment doesnt matter to the story. Also they just said they could prevent it.
this thread sucks
>>319907962
It does. The fire flies were retarded and were going to kill Ellie and then find out their shit was useless.
>>319907662
>doomed humanity
There's no guarantee they could have successfully developed a vaccine. And then who would they have distributed it to? The fireflies have a ton of enemies. They could potentially use a vaccine to empower themselves and tyrannize what's left of mankind.
Obviously Joel wasn't thinking on this level. He just wanted his little girl back.
If you leave the fate of mankind up to an aging misanthrope, you shouldn't be survived when he sends everyone to the devil.
>>319907040
Fuck Ellie.
I mean that literally.
>>319907662
This. People say the game is overrated but I really think it deserved most of it's praise.
>>319908045
I dont think that anywhere they said they would make a vaccine.As far as i know they just said they could prevent it from taking over you.
>>319908274
They literally say Vaccine
>>319907040
It wasn't the fungus that killed his daughter.
Who do you think Joel hates more? Some dumb ass mushroom zombies that he's learned to live around for 20 years, or the people that are constantly pointing guns at him.
>>319908241
It's not the praise that's an issue so much as where it was coming from
Fans of this game are fucking insufferable
She probably would have died long before we ever reached that hospital because I'm weak and incapable of protecting another person.
>>319908096
Oh yeah that could totally happen. But all we can really do is speculate until TLOU 2. All we know now is that the fireflies survived to the ending and wanted to make a cure.
>>319908328
Ok then im wrong. But i still think its a pretty minor plot hole.
>>319907662
>He doomed humaity for a daughter complex.
Oh boy this again. Humanity was already fucked to begin with and the fireflies are incompetent group of rebellious fuckups and receiving the vaccine from Ellie wasn't guaranteed to begin with. Don't forget she wasn't the first one either, fireflies has a sloppy record of fail attempts on finding the cure and there are body counts to prove otherwise.
>>319908790
thats just the point of the ending. to be morally ambiguous.
Anyone else spend half this game wishing they were John Marston?
>dude grabs Ellie
>reflexively hit the button for deadeye
Ellie and John would be the GOAT team. Maximum sarcasm
>>319908790
I mostly agree, but if you listen to the tapes, Ellie was the first person with any type of immunity that they'd gotten their hands on. The others were regular cases of infection.
>>319907040
Joel protected the person he set out to protect. His surrogate daughter, Ellie. Given that, when you arrive in the hospital/lab there are already plenty of corpses denoting several failed attempts at curing the outbreak, it looked to me, as the player, that they had no idea how to cure it yet. Giving them one more body want going to get them any closer to a cure.
Good guy or bad guy. Joe did the right thing.
>Implying you can vaccinate fungal infections
>Implying you can mass produce vaccines in an old run down hospital
>Implying you can produce enough of said vaccine to be able to spread it world wide
>Implying they would survive said journey to spread vaccine and be able to effectively get rid of all infected that already turned
>Inplying it wouldn't take about 500 years to turn the world back into a livable, functioning place with cities and shit with no danger
>Implying that cannibals, rapists, raiders, and the people who turned into savage assholes who literally grew up in the apocalypse would be thankful and cull their ways when a vaccine is made
>"Hey Jim, stop devouring that guy who we just skinned alive and come get your vaccination. Everything's all better now!"
The fireflies were about to bet everything on a fucking pipe dream. VACCINES DONT WORK ON FUNGUS. PEOPLE REVERTED BACK TO SAVAGES. THERE ARE STILL ZOMBIES EVERYWHERE. A vaccine, no matter how potent, was never going to fix the already decimated world. Greenery and animal life were already growing back and consuming the last vestiges of human kinds world. There are kids who grew up in the apocalypse and know nothing but rape and killing. They don't deserve to be saved. Joel did EVERYTHING right, because going back to Tommy who actually started down the right path of taking back the world was better than thinking a vaccine would make the fucking apocalypse better. Stop making these threads.
>>319908639
>the fireflies survived
Not the ones I ran into
I also shot their best surgeon
>>319908756
it's not so much a plot hole as it is FURTHER evidence that the fireflies are shit and nothing would change if Joel let them kill Ellie.
Every aspect of their plan was retarded, they were thugs anyways, and they had every plan to just kill Joel by shooting him in the back the second he left the hospital. These are all things that the game either flat out tells you or strongly hints at.
The real question is why the hell did they immediately start going for the brain instead of running tests with her blood or something.
>>319909096
>survived to the ending
Joel killed them but what im saying is that we have no idea what would happen if Joel didnt finish off the fireflies
>>319909301
serology I would expect
>>319907040
Joel is fine. The Fireflies are retarded. Besides not being able to procure a vaccine, if any is possible, they also are eroding at what's left of civilization in the name of 'liberation!!!'.
>>319909301
>>319909418
nvm read that as the opposite
What the hell does Joel tell his brother when they get back?
>err, yeah we met the fireflies, but they said Ellie couldn't help with anything so we just said thanks and left
>>319908574
Fans of most games are pretty insufferable. When someone gets to the point that they defend the game and ignore criticism they're generally pretty fucking annoying
I don't understand why people are calling him evil
I think those people are fucking retarded or lack a sense of empathy (similarly to the fireflies)
there are many works of fiction that are about conflicts on how much worth one human life is versus that of many, and it's rarely - if ever - a clear-cut case - especially if it's against that person's will
in Joel's case it can be many reasons why he decided to save Ellie, but I think it can be surmised in pretty much one thing; what the Fireflies were doing to her and how they were going about it, was fucking bullshit
If everybody just sat down and talked about it, I doubt Joel would've gone into ragemode after he would see Ellie consent to the procedure
>>319908957
John Marston should be DLC in TLOU
>clickers come running out
>WHOLE DAMN WORLD'S GONE CRAZY
>being shot at by raiders
>WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING HERE?
>grab a dude from behind and choke him out
>YOU HAVING A GAY OLD TIME NOW?
>>319910175
That's the whole issue. Everyone else was making the decision for Ellie. Marlene and Joel had the same mentality, just opposite conclusions. Neither one of them has the stones to wake Ellie up and ask what she wants.
>>319910392
So we all know who the better character is, but who wins in a fight?
I'd give John the edge in a gun fight and Joel the advantage in hand to hand combat
>>319910542
>Neither one of them has the stones to wake Ellie up and ask what she wants.
I don't think Joel would've had the opportunity after killing almost the entire group before arriving to the operating room. If anything, he saved her to being able to make that call in a later moment in her life.
>>319907040
>moral objectivity existing in a post-apocalyptic world
>good or bad existing in a morally gray reality
>saving something that doesn't deserve to be saved
>>319911327
I said good and bad, not good and evil. Huge difference
>>319910871
John's dead eye gives him a distinct advantage in a direct fight. Joel has better stealth and surprise options.
>>319910871
You could replace Joel with John in TLOU and probably get the same result, just with more shooting and sarcasm
>>319910139
>...Anonymous
>12/12/15(Sat)12:18:37 No.319910139
>What the hell does Joel tell his brother when they get back?
>err, yeah we met the fireflies, but they said Ellie couldn't help with anything so we just said thanks and left
Same thing he told Ellie.
>Turns out thousands are immune to this, but it's impossible to synthesize a cure/vaccine for fungi.
>>319913775
but Tommy was a firefly. He would know that isn't the case
>>319907662
>implying the fireflies would have shared that shit
Remember how times they shoot at you? Its HEAVILY implied they are degenerate assholeswho probably would rape ellie after they killed her
>Muh vaccine
No guarantee it was going to work. It was a shot in the fucking dark. Even if it did somehow work, then what? How would they develop the vaccine and distribute it effectively? They fucking can't. From what we can tell the Fireflies are on their last legs, and they sure as hell aren't going to hand it over to FEDRA. In the end, the fireflies were the biggest cunts because all they cared about was making an impossible vaccine that is 20 years overdue, and they were willing to kill an innocent to do it (once again, it was a shot in the dark and wasn't guaranteed to work).
Joel did the right thing by miles. Anyone who thinks Joel was being a "bad guy" by fucking up the fireflies are idiots who don't understand empathy or the complexity of the whole MUH VACCINE shit.
He didn't "doom" humanity.
I thought the gane would end with a make decision meme
Mfw i was going to do what joel did anyway
