What went wrong?
>>319898575
Your mother didn't love you.
Too many third party characters, people talking non-stop about Melee whenever the game is discussed, and nobody appreciates it for what it is.
>smash tour
>fucked up balance
>grinding to unlock custom shit
>overly passive gameplay
that's said it's still a solid game, but it could be better.
>>319898575
does anyone even play 3DS Smash anymore
shit gameplay
>no Ice Climbers
>>319898575
>What went right?
Fixed it for ya, OP
>>319898575
Annoying as shit fanbase
It was better than Melee so everyone got mad that (Trash) Bintendo was able to make a better game than one they did in 2001, what a surprise
>>319899108
doesn't that apply to every video game
Melee
>>319898849
Smash Tour is alright. Don't understand why Smash Run wasn't included in the Wii U version, though.
>>319899171
>(Trash) Bintendo
Performance art levels of not even trying.
The most autistic fanbase hate it, but still play it just so they will have something to bitch about.
The ballot threads have become the most cancerous threads on /v/.
All the fanbase wants are veterans
>no fun allowed
>>319898987
Yes, a lot of people do.
The depth of mechanics were less fun than those of melee
and It's not about muh wave dash,the game Is extremely defensive oriented unless you play sheik,and defensive playstyles are boring.
>>319899521
>people want a game based on nintendo history to include characters from nintendo history
what a fucking surprise
>>319898575
It goes quantity over quality and the scope of the quantity isn't as ambitious as brawl. The gameplay is brawl except slightly sped up and with the glaring flaws fixed. The only genuinely impressive thing about the game is roster; everything else ranges from mediocre to awful. It's a 7/10 game at best
>>319900328
No, I just want a game with characters I like. I couldn't care less if they're Nintendo or not. Speak for yourself. Most of Smash's roster is second party, anyway. Which is like calling Spider-man a Disney character. Not wrong, but not absolute.
>>319898575
No Snake
No Buy
They never added Snake
>>319898575
It could have been the best smash ever, but then they decided to make a 3DS version...
>>319900328
Sakurai should have just left them in there to begin with.
Id rather have a new character than the ballot wasted on a character that should have stayed in the first place.
>>319898575
Memelee fags shitposting every single Smash 4 thread.
>>319900687
>muh ice climburs
>>319898849
Fucked up balance? The only shit character is Samus. Pretty much every character has been nerfed back to balanced with patches
It's not melee
Was it nintendo's or konami's fault Snake isnt in the game?
Intentionally shit physics. Apparently, Sakurai thinks it's too "competitive" and not "newbie friendly" to have momentum on your fucking running jump, which even old platformer games had back in the beep boop era.
Once Sakurai leaves, Smash can get a new director (hopefully someone in touch with the people that actually play the game and don't just play it for like 3 months then stop) so that Smash can have some actual potential to be one of the best game series to ever be created.
So much potential is lost because of that fucking manchild Sakurai. And what gets me that out of all the places, /v/ is one of the most that defends him for some fucked up reason.
If the 3ds version wasnt made the wii u version would have been a lot better
>>319900562
>Which is like calling Spider-man a Disney character. Not wrong, but not absolute.
is this the best example you could come up with
>>319900870
Smash 4 is a game full of shit characters. It's why a painfully average character like falcon is considered high tier. Sheik is the worst "best" the entire series. Smash 4's balance philosophy is shit and is part of why it's dull to play
>>319900985
Konami
>>319898575
Fanboys and the ballot imo.
No matter which character wins the ballot there's gonna be salty fanboys bitching and moaning about how so-and-so got in and not their beloved character. The fact that any smash game will be compared with melee hurts it as well.
>>319901318
This. We should have gotten the Ice Climbers instead of them not including them at all because muh 3DS version. It would have been nice to see Smash Run make it to the Wii U version too.
Not a thing. Brawl was fine if you didn't give a crap about playing competitively, and Smash 4 is the best one so far.
>>319898575
>Shield into grabs are too good,
>Most combos are braindead, for example uptilt into uptilt into upair into upair
>Single player is fucking boring
>A lot of the fun stages are thrown into the 3DS and kept away from the Wii U
>No way to turn off bosses or anything for maps
>Every new item I can think of off the top of my head is fucking stupid or retardedly OP aside from maybe the Xbomb and blue shell
>Megaman
>Sonic
>Ryu
>Cloud
Literally PSASBR tier. Sm4sh is shit.
>awful menu/ design in general
>mechanics reward defensive play
>so many extra modes but none of them actually fun
>online lag
>music is meh
>childish aesthetic feel in general
its still a fun game, the new characters are cool but no idea why someone would objectively think its better than melee or smash 64
>>319901721
This
>>319901775
I wouldnt go so far to say that, but Subspace Emisarry was the most fun I had with a Nintendo title.
Favorite thing about Sm4sh was Smash Run. It felt like City Trial from Kirby Air Ride.
>>319898575
It wasn't well catered enough to your particular tastes. Or you simply dislike this game, or the series in general. If you were able to remove nostalgia from filtering the image of the prior games then you would most likely find that you actually dislike the series. Or you just hate video games, like the rest of /v/
>>319900870
Everyone in the cast is weaker than their previous incarnations.
Compare Mario from 64 to Melee to Brawl to Sm4sh.
It's like with every addition post melee, he lost more and more options until he was relegated to spamming uTilt just to wrack up damage.
>>319898575
Lack of single-player content. That's pretty much it, really.
>>319900495
I cannot think of any roster that had more than 20-30 fighters that didn't become imbalanced dogshit except for Project M.
Even tradional fighters fall for this, so I don't see the point of adding 50+ fighters to a roster if they're going to be mostly shit or filler.
>>319898987
None of the autists here do. You just don't hear about Smash 3DS because those people actually go outside. You do know the 3DS version sold much better right?
>>319898575
Haven't we been over all the things that went wrong a billion times?
>>319898575
Nothing. Outside of Smash Tour and Angry Targets, it's perfect.
>>319898987
Yeah, but it feels lacking. The stages for example/
>>319901929
>Shield into grabs are too good
fixed already
>Single player is fucking boring
like every Smash game
>No way to turn off bosses or anything for maps
Why would that be necessary?
>Every new item I can think of off the top of my head is fucking stupid or retardedly OP aside from maybe the Xbomb and blue shell
All of them are easily dodged if you have even half of a brain in your head.
>>319902162
>until he was relegated to spamming uTilt just to wrack up damage.
If you think that, you're very, very bad at this game. Bair and nair are fantastic for damage building and spacing, dair is a great damage builder, all his smashes are great, and his specials are all useful in some way. That and he can uair like a champion.
>>319902987
>fixed already
No, they're still too good. The increase in shield stun has done little to solve shields still being the safest option in the game and the entire game being based around grabbing because of the power in shielding and 99% of combos stemming from grabbing. You can ask ZeRo to explain more if you'd like.
>Why would that be necessary?
So you could play otherwise good and interesting stages without them being ruined by overly intrusive shit taking up the whole screen. If me and my friends wanted to just put the controllers down and let our characters die we could just put in four more AI players to beat the shit out of us while we watched.
>All of them are easily dodged if you have even half of a brain in your head.
The better answer is that you can turn them off if you don't like them.
>>319902987here's your (you).
>>319903320
>If me and my friends wanted to just put the controllers down and let our characters die we could just put in four more AI players to beat the shit out of us while we watched.
Sounds you like you suck ass. No boss is that intrusive or powerful, not even Ridley. Just kill the fuckers, or better yet, use them to your advantage. I know that it's you casuals' strong suit...
>>319903640
The game is built for casuals, as Sakurai has stated many times, so it should cater to me then. There are stages that would be better off without their hazards, and so it would have been good to add an option to the game to turn them off.
Or is more option in a game a bad thing, anon? I'd love to hear you justify wanting a more rigid and mandated game experience.
>>319902987
>Fixed already
Hardly.
>Why would that be necessary
It's not, but it's something that a heavy amount of players would like. The two stages I would love to play in are buttfucked by a boss throughout the whole match, who just keeps coming back.
>All of them are easily dodged if you have even half of a brain in your head
When I said fucking stupid or retardedly OP, I didn't mean that all of them are OP. I will not claim that the beehive, cuccos, and killer eyes are OP, they're just stupid.
You can easily dodge the more dangerous items by dodging in a 1v1 match maybe, but you cannot say that you have never been attacked off guard by someone you weren't focused on by a bullet bill/drill arm, which then proceeds to onehit kill you if you're above ~50% or something rather low like that. Bob-ombs are like that, but at least the user has to take a risk, since it may kill them, by trying to use it.
>>319899108
>If there is a lot of quantity it mean there is no quality
I like this meme
>>319903178
If you think that spamming uTilt to wrack up damage isn't viable then you're bad at this game or delusional to how shit it is.
Though I'll admit, I forgot that spamming uAir is viable too.
>>319903640
>I know that it's you casuals' strong suit...
Nigga, sm4sh was made for casuals.
It's arguably the most casual smash game in the series.
If me and my casual friends sat down to throw down with our favorite Nintendo characters, we don't want to have to deal with something like yellow devil or Ridley when the whole point of the game is to fight your opponent(s), not the stage.
>>319902162
Mario is top 5-6 is this game you dummy
In the original release of the game and I believe this is still somewhat the case, the shield comes out on frame 1, 1/60 of a second
you're stuck in shield for 7 frames, BUT getting hit with shield stun cancels that shield lock, if your shield stun is >7 frames it actually makes the shield stun faster
1 frame is instant while most attacks have much longer start up time and limited movement options mean its way easier to shild or dodge than actually attack
shield grabbing is almost guaranteed
Off stage game is boring takes no skill and is too easy
ledge options are to in favor of the defensive
tech options are too in favor of the defensive
online sucks
tournament mode is balls
combo game is awful, most combos are the same very little variation, take fox and falco in melee our more unique then any two characters in smash 4
hit boxes suck
not very well balanced competitively
pummel is stupid
spamming and rolling is now a viable option, Links, Samus etc
many stupidly designed characters
lucario and little mac reward players for being worse at the game?
game just feels slow and watered down, a clear step down from Melee and 64
>>319905951
The only reason why he's top 5-6 is because he's one of the few characters with a reliable combo that racks up damage and leads into a killing move.
If you couldn't link 3-6 uTilts or 3-5 uAirs together reliably without your opponent being locked for the first few hits, nobody would play him over characters like Diddy and Shiek.
>>319898575
Didn't met melee fags expectations
>>319906215
I don't even like melee but damn, it's such a letdown in comparison to the shit that we had in melee and brawl.
>>319906367
True
>>319906061
>lucario rewards players for being worse at the game?
I don't fucking get why people think this, maybe I'm retarded but
Let's say I'm playing Lucario, the opponent and I are both at around 100%. I KO the opponent, I'm still at 90% with aura since I lived. Wouldn't that be a reward for beating the opponent first? On the other hand, if the opponent KOs me first, now I'm at 0%. I cannot do shit to the opponent even if he's at a relatively high percentage. At times like these I either have to do an unsafe as fuck move to kill, intentionally get hurt, or try to bring the opponent to +160% so I can use a safer move kill. The only time I see a "reward" for being bad is if you're doing a 1 stock match.
>>319906367
>I don't even like melee but
>>319907274
I don't have to be obsessed with melee to tell when the series has gotten worse.
>>319907675
You don't have to be obssessed to like It either,and since you are using It to compare,you must have played a hefty amount.
>>319900495
nice pic, saved
>>319908810
Not really.
I played it when I was younger but I never really got into it like I did with PM.
In all honesty, the thing I played the most when I was playing melee was adventure mode and classic mode, which sm4sh either removed or butchered for no adequately explained reason.
Hell, I wouldn't even be so mad if the SP was consistent but it seems like they took the best version of SP and stuck it in the version that nobody would play once the Wii U version came out.
Like I said, a complete letdown.
>>319905619
Or you can just git gud and learn spacing to get really good damage with bair
You fucking pleb
>>319910128
Why would I learn to do something that might work consistently when there's already a tried and true method that will work 9/10 times?
I've never seen anyone using a bair to wrack up damage but I've seen many stocks taken after someone successfully spams uair or utilt.
Cry more pleb.
>>319907273
Because obviously if you were good you wouldn't be getting hit.
>>319907273
If you were any good then you wouldn't be taking damage in the first place.
That and having an atk boosting passive stacked on top of another atk boosting passive is fucking stupid.
>>319911131
Sorry dude but lucario sucks in smash 4, if he was op as you seem to think then he would be played in tourneys all the time
>>319898575
No K rool
>>319911347
The only thing holding him back is the fact that most of his moves take like ten years to come out.
But even that's offset by the fact that his side-b is a command grab that can KO you at relatively low percentages due to how aura stacks with rage.
>>319911552
You seem to act like that's a bad thing senpai.
>>319907273
its pretty simple
take this situation
>enemy beats you until you are at kill %
>lucario is at 100% other player is at 30%
>lucario is now way stronger dealing massive amounts of damage, have bigger moves and better recovery
>if a character is doing well against lucario, lucario is rewarded
>rewarding people for being bad at the game creates a weird skill input to output ratio where bad players will do much better than good characters, if you think about this competitively it flies against the nature of competition in general
>>319898757
What is there to appreciate besides roster?
There's nothing good about the gameplay. The only good thing about it is you can play online, but you can do that with dolphin netplay. The roster is large but it's all shit, I don't want to play as Dark Pit, Pacman, Villager or Rosalina.
>>319905912
>the whole point of the game is to fight your opponent(s), not the stage.
This is factually wrong. If that were the case, every stage would be final destination. Using the stage and having to deal with it has been part of the series since day one, you neanderthal.
>>319912340
The better stages, all the amazing music, more items, 8-player smash, and the fact that the gameplay is the best in the series with no competition in that regard.
>>319913063
I'm sorry that this was your first smash game kid.
But even when a stage had hazards, it never took up as much as they do now.
Compare the stage hazards in 64 to the stage hazards in sm4sh.
It's ludicrious how shitty they've become, it makes otherwise neutral stages damn near unplayable.
>>319913257
Smash 4's new stages are shit, there's a lot of music but it's butchered, the new item's are mostly shit, and the gameplay is a slightly improved brawl. The game just tries to throw a lot of stuff at you but that stuff isn't all that good. 8 player smash is cool though. The roster is the only amazing thing about the game
>>319913257
>better stages
When the only new stage that's actually okay to play on is Town & City due to the stage hazards and shit, I'd have to disagree.
>music
Most of the music is either ported from brawl or butchered. The handful of decent tracks are also ruined due to the fact that they're limited to being 2 minute loops.
>8-player smash
I agree with this but I wish I didn't have to deal with it whenever I wanted to play on classic mode.
>the gameplay is the best in the series with no competition in that regard.
see pic related
Any game with worse physics than a platformer from 1985 does not have the right to call it's gameplay good, let alone the best.
>>319913008
>I don't want to play as Dark Pit, Pacman, Villager or Rosalina.
Then don't?
>>319898575
Online is booty, and the 3DS has a terrible friend management system, which doesn't help.
>>319913824
>The roster is shit
>LOL THEN DONT PLAY
You're only proving his point, retard.
>>319913749
which of these people are you?
>>319914063
Why did you post a picture from your family reunion?
>>319914024
He hates every other newcomer? Even Mega Man, Ryu, and even Cloud coming out?
>>319898575
>Ledges are magnets
>Feels like half of your move set is useless because players shit I-frames, there's little hitstun and gravity is fucked
>Smash tour is ass, run is fantastic but on 3DS
>Some of the better stages are locked on 3DS
>Wario doesn't have a shoulder bash
>Some characters feel boring and samey, their hits have little weight to them and hitboxes feel like shit.
>>319898987
I do. Pretty much every day.
Nothing. The only ones complaining are Gaylee & Project Gayleefags.
Smash is the only game where I see fans being okay with the games becoming more and more casual. Why?
>>319900816
Tr4sh fags need to play a better game
>>319913257
>gameplay is the best in the series
>how to ruin your Sm4shthread bait post in seven words
>>319910407
Maybe in casual play but if someone DIs correctly you can shield the second up tilt.
Sure uair and utilts are great tools but Mario's bair and dair have very good priority and with proper spacing you can easily take control of the neutral
You've probably only played 4glory, there is just constant shitters on there that will fall into traps.
TL:DL you're fucking trash if you think utilt and uair are the only tools you need
>>319916105
I honestly don't know.
Any other game series discussed on /v/ that has:
>downgraded physics from previous entries
>slowed down movement from previous entries
>a downgrade in tech from previous entries
>cut features from previous entries
>no improvement to balancing from previous entries
...gets absolutely demolished, and rightly so. But for whatever reason there is an army of people on /v/ who want to defend the indefensible in the Smash series alone.
>>319916105
Most smashfags got into it during Brawl (when the game was at its most accessible) and they never were good enough to git gud at 64, melee, or PM.
You notice how the games people insult the most are the ones that actually require skill to play effectively?
>>319916105
I'm still convinced it's just people who don't care about the game and want to be teh epic troll master
If it isn't then /v/ is shit at vidya and fighting games in particular. They know that they wouldn't be able to survive online if Sm4sh was more similar to PM/Melee
>>319916703
Show me a match where utilt and uair didn't take the most stocks.
Prove me wrong.
>What went wrong?
Nothing,its a fun game
>ledge trumping
removes a large amount of depth from the ledge game, again with a casual mechanic intended to make it easier for the absolute worst casuals to recover
>rage
mechanic implemented to let casuals make comebacks easier
>DACUS removed from brawl
more depth removal
>neutral game the most shallow of any smash game, relies almost entirely on getting a grab, gimp potential has been nerfed 95%, no loger viable for low% KO's
>people say this game is MORE competitive than brawl
>>319916105
Sakurai
>>319917068
That's a pretty dumb request considering those moves aren't kill moves for any competitively used characters other than Donkey Kong's DING DONG anymore. Utilts and uairs are primarily a method of racking up damage from low percents to just below kill percents at which point the game because baiting for punishes, hopefully from grabs. Although in Sheik's case, the dominant character, it's fair that doesn't the damage racking.
>>319916790
The truth is harder to accept, as well with ignorance plays a part in it as well
when I first played sm4sh I hadn't played melee other than when I was a kid, I assumed smash4 was the best one but when I went back to melee all my problems I had with smash4 were fixed and more
Smash4 could be the last smash game for atleast 5 years, and its hard to think we got another dud, and that the mass amount of content has gone to waste
>>319898575
Was too much like Melee.
>>319898575
Well
There's still no Bonus Battle
Classic mode isn't classic at all and removed the minigames
There no Break the Targets minigame at all
More than ever, newcomers feel like they were put in for advertisement's sake
Almost half the stages in either separate version are retro stages
Newcomer dlc characters cost $2 extra
With the exception of Ryu, so far, every dlc character is a clone
All of the new modes are either one-offs, custom farming, or shit
The menu sucks
They didn't put nearly as much effort into the music, using tons of reused Brawl tracks
The 3DS version caused unnecessary limitations on the Wii U versionsNo Ice Climbers
Too many stages with bullshit hazards
I could probably think of more on top of that. None of this includes the actual gameplay, which has been better in the past. Not saying Smash 4 is bad, it's my 2nd favorite in the series. It just could've been so much more.
>>319916105
It's ALWAYS ok when Nintendo does it.
>>319917335
8 player smash is shit and caused a chunk of the new stages to be massive and the Wii U obviously can't handle it since some stage features have to be dropped when it's active
actually that and the 3ds version really limit a lot of things like character moves
The Mii Fighters and custom moves are wasted potential. They're essentially non-characters
Classic is a big sack of dog shit
Better than Brawl
Worst than Melee
Average Smash game
Why can't people be satisfied?
>>319917738
whoops, didn't mean to reply
>>319917775
>average
>worse than melee
These things are mutually exclusive, anon.
>>319917505
Jesus christ. When sakurai makes a little effort to make smash more competitive, not even by that much, casuals get triggered.
People should WANT their games to have more depth and complexity.
>>319917775
>why aren't people satisfied with a mediocre game
>>319917775
Average would be between 64 towards mid high and Sm4sh towards mid low. We have no true middle ground average yet.
>>319917971
So according to you it's Melee>Sm4sh>Brawl>64 ? If so I agree
>>319918224
No
Melee>Smash 4>64>Brawl
The only thing Brawl did right was who they chose for newcomers and the music.
>>319913824
Thats the point
Lots of shit addition makes you lose interest
>>319898575
A faggot making shitty threads
>>319916105
It's okay when Nintendo does it
>>319898575
Absolute nothing. What went wrong was Melee and Brawl and Smash 4 fixed it.
>>319898575
People can't let go of melee
>>319918224
No, it was stated very clearly.
Melee (high) - (64 mid high) - (low high) - (mid) - (high low) - Sm4sh (mid low) - Brawl (low low)
Come on man, not that hard to visualize that from the sentence.
>>319918690
Melee was better than Brawl but not Smash 4.
When did people stop thinking that Smash was a casual Nintendo game for Nintendo franchise fans and instead affix it to the insanely obnoxious competitive tourneyfag scene
>>319912231
>>lucario is now way stronger dealing massive amounts of damage, have bigger moves and better recovery
And he is in kill range, so a solid attack will take his stock and put him back into shit form.
>>319918746
I disagree 4U plays like garbage
Being underwater with Magnet ledges don't feel good
>>319918580
>praising the removal of depth from a series
>nintendofags, everyone
>>319918746
>Melee was not better than Smash 4
Gotta b more subtle with the bait than this m8000-m800 and m88
>>319918690
No, 64 is not mid high, an average game should be between 64 TOWARDS mid high and Sm4sh TOWARDS mid low.
So basically Melee>Sm4sh>AVERAGE>64>Brawl
>>319913359
>I'm sorry that this was your first smash game kid.
It isn't, but Melee was clearly yours. The first game had Saffron City, Corneria, the Tornado, and Brinstar being entirely filled with acid.
>>319918812
Just because I want Good gameplay don't mean I'm a tourneyfag
>>319918671
I'd be happy to let go of Melee if smash 4 or brawl weren't absolute dogshit to play
Aside from some of the new cast it just feels so...lifeless. Like, I can't point to any one thing that's wrong but it's somehow coming together all wrong. The single player is there but it's dull, stage design and gameplay mechanics seem to favor chaos over sincere strategy, and bonus modes feel really tacked on. It's not devoid of good ideas - 8 player Smash and user-made tournaments are welcome additions, and there really are some inspired additions to the roster like Megaman, Duck Hunt, and Ryu but as a whole...I dunno, man. At least Zelda's up+B can kill now. That's pretty cool.
>>319918863
I think Smash 4 is more balanced than Melee. It has better stages, items, characters and music as well. The online 'for fun' and 'for glory' modes are great as well.
>>319919027
It has better gameplay than 2/3 of the previous entries.
Melee was too good, so it was impossible to make a Smash game as good as it.
That's the problem, Melee does almost everything better
>>319919130
smash 4 is literally the same balance wise, it just has double the characters
>>319918981
>Sm4sh>64
Not even worth my time pretending you're not just pretending to be retarded. Carry on and see if others will give you (You)s. I'm sure there's people dumb enough to fall for it.
>>319918901
Please. Smash 4 has more depth do it than all 3 of the previous games combined.
>>319913675
>Smash 4's new stages are shit,
False
>there's a lot of music but it's butchered
No, it's all pretty damn good.
>the new item's are mostly shit
Except they aren't.
>the gameplay is a slightly improved brawl
Vastly improved, you mean. it's easily the best in the series.
>>319913749
>le smug reaction face
Yeah, it figures that's the most you could muster. Here's one for you, and a (You) to go with it.
>>319918964
You're obviously just trying to troll if you think Melee is a better game than Smash 4. No bait at all.
Was there any word that the DLC characters gonna get custom moves, the guidance thing with Pit, or anything else they may be missing?
>>319916364
>facts now ruin arguments
Wild, man.
>>319919229
I'm not saying I agree you dipshit. I just write what other anon tried to imply with his shitty writting.
OH by the way, Sm4sh IS better than 64 both technically and scientifically
>>319919305
>response with no counter argument
cool shitpost bro
>>319917216
>emoves a large amount of depth from the ledge game
But it adds a ton of depth, you idiot. I can't even quantify how stupid this is, holy shit.
>>319898575
You can't do this in smash 4.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8vyBV94K4SE
I think Smash for Wii U is a lot of fun. Fox, DK and Wario are probably my top 3 go to characters.
>>319919303
Even Brawl has more depth.
In terms of depth
Melee>64>Brawl>Smash 4
>>319919527
There's a reason why you almost never see any great ledge play in high level Smash 4.
It just doesn't exist since it lets the best characters just recover freely
>>319919615
Opinions vary.
>>319919429
You didn't make any arguments to counter. The music is all fantastic, the stages are more interesting and varied than any game in the series (fact), and the gameplay is factually deeper and more enjoyable than the rest of the seires. Within a single year the game is played more competitively than 64, Melee, or Brawl were within 5 years, and have better balance than them besides.
>>319913257
>this is what tr4shfags actually believe
>>319919774
But you do all the time. You get to see off the stage play far more often because everyone has good recovery, and you can't simply hop down onto the ledge for a free gimp. You actually see a lot of on stage players jump down on top of recovering player who grab the ledge, with the intent to push them off and jump back at them for a free attack.
>>319919615
brawl has more depth than 64. The whole issue with brawl is most of the tricks and techniques turned the game into complete cancer.
>>319919852
Seems to be what everyone but Meleefags believe.
Same thing that went wrong with Brawl, the game was no longer being developed by HAL Labs.
64 and Melee were top notch games because HAL created interesting and fun physics engines to fuck around in with good player vs player combat properties that functioned well in everything from a 1v1 fight up to four players on a hectic stage with max item frequency. Once it went to Sora Sakurai's confusion over Smash's casual appeal pretty much killed it. He thought that the simplicity of the game was what made it a perfect casual experience, when in reality the games were not that simple at all and the casual appeal came from how actually complicated and goofy the interactions within the physics engine were. Hence why the gameplay on an N64 cartridge and a Gamecube disc is more advanced and also more rewarding than that on what should be more advanced and capable disks.
Basically, Sakurai thought couch players loved Smash because it was simple and so tried to make it as simple as possible for maximum casual appeal, even though that was never really the appeal in the first place.
And competitively I mean it's obvious all that went wrong just from comparing matches between games.
>>319919825
>most of the music is just 2 min versions.
>best music is the old remixes and unremixed songs like xenoblade
>having an boss appear every 10 seconds in varied now?
>You didn't even explain why it has depth
>>319919825
80% of the music is ported straight from brawl + cut up to fit the random 2 min length cap.
stages are all almost unplayable with the amount of stage hazard garbage that butts in on actual gameplay
>less depth than fucking brawl
>more competitive than all the other games
>my opinion is (fact)
you are retarded
>>319906215
Remember when Brawl came out the first time and everybody got sick of playing it really, really quickly?
It's happening all over again with this second consumer product disguised as have depth, but really is hiding behind $60 of extra DLC.
>not Smash bros. 4 WiiU and 3da
>>319919415
>this delusion
>>319902987
>>Single player is fucking boring
>like every Smash game
This is so untrue. Melee had an awesome event mode with unique challenges, character-specific break the target tests, race to the finish, and an adventure mode.
Brawl has a massive adventure mode in SSE, still has break the targets (although neutered) boss battles and more.
Sm4sh single player is absolute dog shit compared to the rest of the games. Every single player mode boils down to "fight random characters on random stages." To add to that, they force you to play SP modes to unlock customs and equipment, it turns into a chore and sucks all the fun out of it
>>319920058
I can actually see that, i'm just not that well informed on Brawl
>>319919615
>smash 4 at the bottom
>64 over Brawl
Meleefags, everyone!
>>319898575
Sakurai
>>319919303
>>319919527
Go ahead, explain it to me then, if you aren't afraid of the TRUTH you wouldn't just shitpost you fucking casual tr4shfag.
The entire ledge metagame that melee and brawl had was literally erased and they just give you the ledge for FREE. That is called removal of depth. Sm4sh also has the least complex neutral and punish game of any smash game to date.
"I think it's more important to aim for, within the population of people who play video games, the people who are at the bottom. - Well it's rude to say it that way, but the players at the base, where it's wider, people who on a basic level don't really care about games...having something that appeals to them is vital, I think."
“…why did I target [Melee] so squarely toward people well-versed in video games, then?” - Sakurai
THIS IS THE SMASH GAME YOU ASKED FOR
>>319920315
That has nothing to do with which is better. Just which game has more depth.
I think is the best in the series aside from the glitches that made melee a fun game to play, the new characters coming will cement the game in the cmpetitive scene for at least 3 years when smash 5 comes out, melee will stay relevant for many years to come through as the gold standard on next level smash gaming.
>>319920278
>Melee had an awesome event mode with unique challenges
So does Smash 4.
>race to the finish, and an adventure mode.
Which are shit beyond a single playthrough.
Actually, yeah, Brawl is the only Smash game with good single player.
>>319920353
>The entire ledge metagame that melee and brawl had was literally erased and they just give you the ledge for FREE
>for Free
see >>319919984
>>319920603
Then posts multiple videos examples of this happening in the highest level of play
>>319901762
>muh Ice Climbers
Who. Gives. A. Shit.
>>319919825
>Within a single year the game is played more competitively than 64, Melee, or Brawl were within 5 years
I'm pretty sure at this point you're just pretending to be stupid because you said "the gameplay is factually deeper and more enjoyable than the rest of the seires", but really, in case anyone actually thinks this is meaningful:
>64 and Melee come out when there is literally no or negative competitive community
>Melee players then build the Smash competitive community from the ground up, as well as avenues for growth like Smashboards
>Sm4sh comes out literally at the Apex of Smash's competitive popularity
>Sm4sh has an already peaked competitive presence from standing on the shoulders of giants
No one really cares. EVO Melee had more than 100k more viewers and the only time Sm4sh has outviewed Melee was when people thought ZeRo was going to lose grand finals of Big House.
>and have better balance than them besides.
I know this is more of your "hurr it's funny to pretend to be a retard on the internet" shit but since there's also people who actually think this:
>Sm4sh has one or two dominant characters out of fifty, which is proportionally even more unbalanced than previous entries
>even then, none of the Smash games have good balancing whatsoever
honestly though you at least get a 7.10 on this because I was annoyed enough at your inclusion of dumb shit some people actually believe so I actually gave you a response.
>>319920603
That still doesnt explain the ledge magnets with absurd range. You could be at the bottom of Melee FD and grab the ledge with these magnets.
GENERIC
ANIME
SWORDSMEN
>>319920494
If you read the thread you noticed that no one claims smash 4 is flawless, it has its fault, but it is a good game, melee is the only game people claim is flawless here
>>319920419
Which would mean:
4 > Melee > Brawl > 64
>>319920132
>most of the music is just 2 min versions.
>best music is the old remixes and unremixed songs like xenoblade
Neither of those counter what was said. And the second is wrong.
>>319920132
>>319920171
>le bosses make a stage unplayable
You people are so shit at Smash Bros it's a wonder you're even able to breathe properly.
>less depth than fucking brawl
Factually wrong.
>more competitive than all the other games
Indeed it is.
No momentum.
Nearly everyone's recovery is insanely good so people live way too long when the already extremely defensive gameplay takes forever.
These are the major things that ruins this game.
>>319920860
at least TRY when you're gonna bait
>>319920950
Why would he need to try when he's getting all these replies with no effort required?
>>319906112
U-Tilt combo isn't even reliable on most characters, Uair chains are timing dependent and aren't true combos as such. He's top tier because he has stupidly good frame data and movement(allowing the uair strings mentioned in the first place).
>>319920603
Nigger get that trumping shit out of here. People don't even attempt it past a certain level because you can negate it entirely by buffering a get up input. The ledge meta right now is you attempt it an edge guard on people with really weak recoveries like mac, ness, doc, etc. or cover their ledge get up options (and pray that they can't do the instant ledge get up)
>>319920903
>No momentum
When will you members quit with this obvious bait? None of the smash games have ever had momentum, why would they put it in 4? Fuck off.
>>319920721
>No one really cares
>a game that has a tiny, dedicated series of fanatics following it for 14 years had more views than a game that has been out for a single year, despite said new game have more entrants in every competition
>Sm4sh has one or two dominant characters out of fifty, which is proportionally even more unbalanced than previous entries
But that's wrong, retard. There are more characters in the top tiers than Melee and Brawl combined.
>>319920950
>can't counter what's said
>I-I'll just call it bait!
Meleefags must lead sad lives...
>>319919825
>Within a single year the game is played more competitively than 64, Melee, or Brawl were within 5 years, and have better balance than them besides.
It is so popular because of the massive community that Melee has built up. Melee has literally changed the way smash is viewed and perveived by the FGC, and casual spectators alike because things like the documentary and EVO. Sm4sh is riding off of Melee's success as a competitive game. If Melee didn't exist, you realize that sm4sh's competitive scene would be almost nothing right?
>sm4sh is more balanced
jesus christ do you actually believe this when sheik and zss exist?
>>319921176
>There are more characters in the top tiers than Melee and Brawl combined.
Oh cool, show me a tier list, anon. I'm very curious to see!
>>319921269
Melee is better than smash 4 (fact)
Prove me wrong
>>319907675
Eh, I admit that Melee has the tightest gameplay, but SSB4 is a lot more fun to play casually with friends... if for one reason only:
Input buffering. It causes a ton of unnecessary grief in a non-competetive scenario it's not even funny.
In a tournament setting this is fine because you get a skill separation, but it's certainly a fucking good thing that Sakurai put this in.
>>319921169
>melee didn't have momentum
You can run and jump to clear more than half of fountain of dreams and knee someone in the face in melee.
You cannot run and jump to clear more than half of any stage and knee someone in the face in sm4sh.
You may think you can, but you can't.
Melee had momentum.
When you run full speed and jump in sm4sh, you barely go anywhere during the jump except straight up.
>>319921176
Well yeah it has more characters but the power gaps are essentially exactly the same as melee. Sheik and Zss have absurdly favored matchups against everyone except top tier, same as fox and falco in melee.
>>319921319
>top tier in melee is SS which has only Fox
>top tier in brawl is S which has MK
>top tier in 4 is S which has Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina ect
>>319921312
>It is so popular because of the massive community that Melee has built up
This is fact. If Melee had just been Brawl v0.5 people would not even been considering smash bros as a competitive fighting game. Sm4sh is piggybacking off of melee's success HARD, but I bet next year there will be hardly any sm4sh players
>>319898575
"It's not melee"
-People still interested in smash bros.
>>319921319
For you. Look at that A- through S chunk. Jesus, that's more viable characters than the rest of the series combined.
>>319921371
More people play Smash 4, it has higher review scores, and everyone but Meleefags enjoy it more. Done.
>>319919303
Dude nice bait
Jesus Christ! Why are you guys so fucking obsessed with trying to convince the world that Smash 4 is the worst thing ever. I like it. I'm sorry. I like it. I like it more than melee. It feels better to me than melee. I'm sorry. I FUCKING LIKE IT MORE THAN MELEE, but unlike Melee fans, I'm not posting a million threads a day desperately trying to convince people that it's better than melee.
Just play the one you like the most. I like Smash 4 more. I'm happy with most of the decisions they made and so are a lot of other people. Why do melee players think every single little element of the series has to be catered to them.
>>319898575
No fun singleplayer content.
>>319921569
Oh cool, show me a tier list, anon. I'm very curious to see!
>>319921664
>two characters in its top tier
Just as balanced as Smash 64! Wow!
>>319921312
Falco and Fox are the same way. The difference being that the tier just under Falco and Fox has 5 characters, whereas the tier below ZSS and Shiek has a solid 10-12.
>>319921169
>smash never had momentum
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MlGM0BFv3JU
are you even trying?
>>319921664
Further proof that PM is and always will be GOAT
>>319921757
>top is the only viable tier!
Guess Fox is the only viable character in Melee. Good to know you've admitted to being wrong.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/tier_list
>>319921554
>>319921783
>taking the bait this hard
>>319921920
>5 characters in A and up
>even having an SS tier
God, why is Melee so trashy?
>>319920603
Anon, of course edgeguarding is possible in sm4sh, but it is heavily nerfed. In melee, if you get off stage you are clenching your fucking asshole because if your opponent is skilled, you AIN'T coming back.
>>319921779
You do realize 4 has more than double the characters melee had right? Proportionally 4 is par for the course as far as smash games go.
>>319921664
>More people play Smash 4, it has higher review scores, and everyone but Meleefags enjoy it more. Done.
Factually wrong :)
>>319921554
Momentum only favored fast characters, though. Making the jump speed consistent was amazing for balance.
Shit stage selection because Japan only plays FD and Sakurai is a faggot who refuses to provide an option to turn off the hazards from a stage, which would turn many stages viable.
>>319921920
>top is the only viable tier!
But I didn't say that anon. Maybe you should read up. You said:
>There are more characters in the top tiers than Melee and Brawl combined.
There are two characters in Sm4sh's top tier, and Melee and Brawl combined is two character. Hmmm, that's strange, I thought you said there was more! How interesting.
Not to mention that Melee has 1/26 characters in its top tier, and Sm4sh has 2/50+. It's almost as if no Smash game has ever been well balanced at all when only a small fraction of each is in the dominant tier.
>>319921757
>Just as balanced as Smash 64! Wow!
You never play smash competitively have you? or any fighting game with a tier list.
>>319922052
>implying that Smash 4 doesn't have an SS tier in Sheik too.
>>319922120
But those are things that can be proven. You're just claiming things are facts when they are wrong, whereas I claimed things were facts because they are.
Stay salty.
>>319922367
Nope :)
>>319922182
In most fighting communities A and S are considered top tier, B is mid tier, and C is low tier.
>>319922182
>top tiers
Yes, Tiers. Plural. As in "Tiers above B."
Meleefags can't even read. Amazing.
>>319922294
Fox is not a ss tier character by any measure and the people who voted him ss tier don't understand what an ss character is. Hell you can make a decent argument that mk wasn't a ss tier character either
>>319921912
>sami will never be finished
it already Can't be GOAT.
>>319922294
It doesn't. Can you not fucking use your eyes?
>>319922390
>Says he won't remain salty
>remains salty
:^)
>>319922052
desu fox really shouldn't be is ss tier. There is still debate around whether marth and falco are tied with fox. He is only in ss because he has no bad matchups, but he goes even with several characters.
>>319922587
You're the salty one, why cant smash 4 fags just let go haha :)
>>319922367
>the irony
>>319922587
Well, think about this.
Fox was S tier for 14 years.
Sheik is already considered S+ atleast and there isn't even an official list yet
>>319922294
>Implying Sheik is as overplayed as Fox
Sheik is good, but not that good, the only SS in smash 4 was Diddy before it got nerfed, killing him made the game so much better and variable and healthy is insane.
Wasnt Marth considered S tier when Ken won everything?
Reminder that Sakurai showed an interest in adding a new mode as DLC
for all we know, he might reveal one as the final effortSmash Run Wii UIts not gonna be Melee mode you idiots
>>319923051
That would be so lazy, porting over a 3ds mode that wasn't even that fun to begin with
>>319922856
Marth has basically always been s tier. He has so much potential to be beter than fox but it really hasn't been unlocked. Ya gotta consider that Fox has Armada, Leffen, and Mang0 playing him wheras Marth only has suicide2king and depressedMD. Not as many good players playing Marth unfortunately.
>>319898575
If you're a casual player, or a newcomer to the series, Smash 4 is like a gift from the gods.
If you're at all competitive, or grew up with the series, Smash 4 is a massive disappointment in many ways. From the lack of competitively viable stages, even though it would have been INCREDIBLY easy to design non-FD/hazardless versions of at least a few stages, a stage builder that somehow manages to be one step forward, two steps back from Brawl, a single player experience that feels positively barren compared to Brawl, which already felt barren compared to Melee (aside from SSE), the biggest clusterfuck of a menu system in the series to date, the underwhelming and inconvenient custom moves that could have been so much more...
A LOT WENT WRONG.
>>319922552
>Everybody in the community agree that at high level play he is unbeatable no matter what
Fox is literally the only character in melee where all inputs could potentially take you to a victory without losing a single stock if you make no mistakes at all, while characters like Sheik in smash 4 have many openings and break throughs that make her take damaged agains evenly skilled players no matter what
>Metal knight in brawl no SSSSS tier
lets just think he never existed
>>319922834
>Smash
>only 1 big tournament where Sheik didn't win
>Melee
>Mulltiple tournaments where Fox didn't win.
Smash 4 pretty much always end up with Sheik winning.
▲
▲▲
>>319923334
Thats because only one player has won everything. Don't jack off to muh king of smash Ken then use Zero as an example of a lack of depth
>>319923334
>Implying the only reason that came to be is not because Zero was playing in all those tournaments
You know is the player that brings the win home not the character right homie?
>>319921169
People on the autism spectrum all seem to be really obsessed with with the laws of physics and any possible application thereof for some reason.
Sonic manchildren all seem to be particularly obsessed with it
>>319923601
Even Ken lost a few times, and there weren't even that many majors back then.
Just accept that your Smash 4 Sheik is as broken as Melee Fox
>>319922856
Do you know what an ss tier character is? Ivan ooze, sf2 akuma, petshop, etc. are ss tier characters. To be an ss tier character you have to straight up curbstomp, as in hard counter, 90% of the roster. Fox does not do this. Metaknight doesn't even do this. SS is reserved for straight up boss tier broken characters and it's silly seeing smashfags throw the term around so easily in competitive settings.
>>319923637
>implying that Sheik wasn't a huge factor
Can't blame him when there are like 4 viable characters in Smash 4
>>319923972
woops for >>319923326
>>319898987
I have not played the wii u smash in about a year now, i always have my smash3ds on me. Partly cos i'm always on the move
FUCKING MELEEFAGS JUST PLAY SAKURAIS PERFECT GAME REEE
>>319924035
>Zero sometimes used Diddy Kong or Captain Falcom to have fun and still win easily in the tournoments
yeaaaaah no
>>319923637
Sm4shfags love to bring up how Fox wins everything and it's just plain wrong and hypocritical. People forgot that fox has ony recently starting winning majors because pp and m2k are on suicide watch. I agree it's the players that win, not the character, but when sm4shfags shitpost they get shitposted back my nigga. STATISTICALLY sheik > metaknight, but I know it's just Zero. Just like how without Armada/Leffen/Mang0 fox would literally never win majors.
>>319923863
>>319923972
What about SSS?
>>319924315
Thanks for pointing out that Project M is objectively the best game
I'll never understand why Paper Mario Sticker Star had that extremely obscure Birdo scene that only pushes her fucking gender issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfYrwSGhPhI
>>319923326
Honestly dude, Sheik's neutral and punish are so fucking good that if you play perfectly you should never lose. Zss only has potenial to win because if she lands 1 shitty tether grab she kills you, and if you play sheik's neutral correctly you should never be grabbed.
>>319924467
Fuck wrong thread
>>319924315
>smash 4 has exactly double melee's top 8 character reps while having more than double melee's roster size
