What did he mean with this?
>>319841574
stfu dumbass
>>319841574
probably consoles having a light operating system that has a low overhead. or something
who cares, ps4 is shit and i dont want to play games below 1080p 60fps
optimization
doesn't really matter when high end pc parts are already several times more powerful than consoles
>>319841574
PKEKS ON SUICIDE WATCH
>>319841574
It means developers can optimize a game better for console than PC because they know what they are working with regarding console. Where as PC there is too many options so they can't optimize for a specific machine. So if a console has the same spec as a pc, the console should outperform it.
Who?
>>319841574
>What did he mean with this?
It means that a good juicer will always get you more liquid than a bad juicer. Point is made moot when the bad juicer gets better every year by leaps and bounds and the good juicer only comes out with new models when the consumers are fed up with it.
>>319841574
>e-celeb threads
>>>/out/
>>319841701
This and
>>319841720
This
But consoles will never get to the level of high and PC's as they'd cost too much..
Also twice the performance is a bit of an exaggeration.
>>319841574
Show me a ps4 that can get twice the framerate as a 7870 which is the pc equivalent gpu it has.
If that was true ps4 games wouldn't be running at sub 10-20 fps but rather at 40-60.
>>319841787
Carmack also mentioned in one of his talks that dealing with video card drivers is a huge bottle neck as well.
>>319841859
>Who?
John Carmack, likely the most famous computer game programmer, co founder of ID Software.
>>319841859
The inventor of first person shooters and 3d graphics
>>319841859
>>319841940
>Spend $500 on console that only gets used to play a specific selection of games
>OR spend the same amount of money on a truly baller graphics card to upgrade your PC, which is used for everyday tasks as well as an absurdly massive collection of games - both old and new - that is ever-expanding
Hm... Let me think about this for a second.
>>319841574
he means that is easier to optimize for a console since its a controlled environment while PCs are the wildwest since there isnt just one PC with set parts
>>319841940
He's a game developer you dumb fuck
>>319842209
>>319842117
>not spotting obvious bait
reddit is that way you faggots
>>319841991
>Also twice the performance is a bit of an exaggeration.
Pretty much
A 7870 which is the equivalent of the ps4 getting above 30 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qyb-0sQlzA
Surely the ps4 should be running this at 60-100 fps right?
Twice the performance right right?
>>319842161
>Same amount
Kek
>319841994
This guy gets it
Not sure how Carmack of all people fell for the "muh optimization magic" meme, guess he isn't very familiar with consoles since he's a PC guy
>>319842161
>graphics card = PC
wew lad
>>319842372
I just hate how people flock to him without knowing shit themselves.
>>319842282
>i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz
>4x4GB DDR3-1600
>ADATA 256GB SSD
>HD 7870 2GB @ 1GHz
That's not the specs of a PS4
>>319842316
Try reading.
pancakedbeast btfo
>>319842372
He didn't. He switched over to the console side a while ago
See rage and his "mega texture" shit which was a joke on /v/ taking screenshots of the shitty texture in wolfenstein on release date
Now he's an oculus shill so that should tell you enough
![latest[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KVpOXNc.png "latest[1].png")
>>319842009
Wow, look at those graphics!!
I could make something better looking in an afternoon.
>>319841574
Basically that cutting the pony tail was a mistake
>>319842497
wow, Carmack actually bothers replying to these people
>>319841574
I don't get this, consoles struggle to even run 60fps on native hardware.
Consoles punch above their weight because of optimization, but PCs are 3-6x more powerful anyways. Assuming you don't go get a dell from bestbuy.
>>319842497
I can't believe he wasted his time replying to that stupid but he wouldn't tell me which K-on is his favourite what a world I live in.
>>319841574
Too bad nobody but console cuc.ks want to play games at 900 or 720p 30fps
Also the consoles all have 1.6ghz AMD cpu's, which on paper are inferior to pretty much every single processor a PC will have.
>>319842372
nice bait
>>319842560
No, the issue is he likes the challenge of optimization and making things work. PC hardware is changing so fast that there is no challenge in software anymore so he got bored. Megatextures was him trying to solve a problem that didn't really exist because he was bored. Now he's doing Oculus because making VR work is a more interesting challenge.
>>319842161
>graphics card... which is used for everyday tasks
Yeah, you really need a $500 graphics card to run a web browser and Microsoft Word.
No "Gaming PC" manufacturers are really stepping up to the plate and making PC's a viable competitor to home consoles in terms of customer service. As of now, PC gaming is the most anti-consumer platform in the market, regardless of how powerful and better it is
it means that the "you can get a pc more powerfull than a ps4 with equal parts" meme is fucking...surprice!... another fucking meme made by mustards who are desperate to justify their 1000 bucks 4chan machines.
>>319841720
>optimization
sadly they stopped caring mostly. Even by the time developers learn how to properly optimize, you've probably already spent a stronger gaming PCs price in monthly fees to use features you'd get for free on PC.
The light operating system helps as well but if consoles would simply switch to prebuilt PCs and made an OS compatable with any modern PC build we'd all benefit. But of course sony and microsoft want a monopoly on the console craze so whats best for gamers isn't their priority. Devs could develop towards being optimized for the prebuilt Playstation 5 build but still have the advanced lighting/textures/etc that can be used with higher end PC builds running the OS. Letting consoles exist anymore is hurting us all, its time to abandon the psuedo PC console and accept sony/xbox operating systems. A windows OS without all the bloat and an interface compatible with controllers would be great. Kids can buy nintendo systems and mobile devices until they get older and get the prebuilt xbox/ps PCs which they will upgrade when they're teenagers with jobs and awful spending investment priorities. It truly is the best outcome.
>>319842894
How is PC gaming the most anti-consumer platform?
>>319843084
>no physical games
>>319841574
reminder this faggot supports oculus (facebook) rift and should be ignored and shit upon
>>319842845
Why doesn't he just make a console with the current best PC hardware and sell it so it will outperform every PC for years? Is that impossible? It'd basically be the modern NEO-GEO. Super overpriced but strong as fuck compared to everything else.
>>319843137
Explain this logic my good troll.
>>319843143
>wahhh facebook is evil
lol grow up you nerd
>>319842894
>As of now, PC gaming is the most anti-consumer platform in the market
Not until it makes you pay for internet access twice, it isn't.
>>319842607
>Wow, look at those graphics!!
Not posting a picture of Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4HJkeQSg0
>>319841574
That PC is irrelevant
>>319841574
He means he wants a sweet microsoft/sony game developer gig so is ignoring that steam giving their attention to optimizing linux/opengl for their in-house games gives performance boosts that makes consoles drool with envy.
He is cherry picking to brown-nose for console dollars.
>>319843187
That's great but why would anyone make games for it when no one buys it? You didn't think that through, did you?
>>319843267
Holy shit, Carmack was the guy who first figured out how to do smooth-scrolling pixel graphics?
Nigga's a wizard.
>>319843234
Hating Facebook isn't a nerd things, it's a normalfag thing. Nerds never had any expectation of privacy with anything they post with their real name, so they aren't upset at Facebook.
>>319842887
You don't NEED it, but it is part of a system that does do those things. Don't be an idiot.
>>319843084
Because it has literally no customer support. If I want to buy any gaming console, I can walk into Best Buy, Walmart, Wherver ever and walk out with the console that day. Best Buy simply doesn't carry a PC that could be considered 'high end'. So you are left with two options, order and assemble the PC by parts or order a pre-made which will be hilariously over priced. Either way, you aren't getting your shit same day. Imagine if Sony launched its platform as online only with some features that could be only be accessed if you assembled your Ps4 by yourself. Xbone and Wii U would have blown it out of the water.
Adding to that, when you look at a wall of PS4 games, you know without question that you can run it. Where as PC games force you to answer a string of questions. "Is my machine strong enough to run this?" "Is my operating system compatible with this?" "is this an online only item?" and more often than not, you can't return software. Steam has only recently allowed the practice and every day we see threads where returns got denied because of bullshit.
Perhaps it's not fair to say PC is anti consumer so much as that it, as a platform with no real company behind it, outright ignores the consumer.
>>319843523
It's not the company's fault people are retarded and skip the privacy policy.
>>319842275
>i was only pretending to be a complete fucking retard!
Sure thing, kiddo.
>>319843187
Because consoles are not meant to be the most powerful on the market, they're meant to be cheap and reliable so you can sell them in wal-mart to 80 IQ retards to get an install base who will buy the same CoD/Fifa game every 12 months.
>>319843724
why do you hate freedom, china-man?
>>319841574
It's saying that consoles have really been twice as far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like PC, which in turn have really been twice as far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mobile.
>>319843504
>Holy shit, Carmack was the guy who first figured out how to do smooth-scrolling pixel graphics?
>Nigga's a wizard.
While not technically impressive I think his most creative work was when he used a table of random numbers (pseudorandom number generator) for Doom speeding up the game calculations by removing the need for actual random generation and instead used a tiny lookup table. Also helping with multiplayer client syncing.
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator
>>319843956
Except games did that for years before Doom
>>319843187
You need some sort of Jobs level marketing guru to pull that off and a company with vertical control of production costs and software. Basically, an Apple-like company that makes consoles, and then they fall in to the same trap that Nintendo and Apple did which is they produce a closed platform of inferior consoles, because the brand ends up more important than the specs. Or they get priced out because all that extra power gives them a negligable performance increase.
>>319843929
>That's true, a console doesn't have to run as much shit in the background and/or is built to have dedicated space to run shit in the background while playing a game compared to a PC
My PC isn't crippled by the 5% CPU and RAM use overhead.
My console is crippled by it's often arcane architecture, hugely limited memory and storage space, low speed optical drives, and most importantly being set in stone from years before it was entered into the market in terms of tech and hardware.
>>319841720
>optimization
what is there to optimize? I don't think you can achieve a level of UE4 just coding entirely in assembly or c++ in a timely cost efficient manner.
>>319842497
>pancakedbeast
literally who.
>>319844104
>Except games did that for years before Doom
Didn't claim he made it, just that it's inclusion and implementation in Doom was the exact sort of max bang for your buck optimization that made id software so much money.
I'd suggest that the lighting work on Quake 2 was his most impressive feat which was something he did.
>>319843724
Whether your PC can run the game is less of an issue these days. Usually it's a matter of waiting until you want to play some game and then you notice it runs like shit, which means you have to drop a significant amount of cash on a new machine/upgrading.
>>319843724
>Because it has literally no customer support.
That's not what anti-consumer means.
>Adding to that, when you look at a wall of PS4 games, you know without question that you can run it.
Define "run."
If I was playing on PC and games were running at 20-30 FPS, I'd be pretty pissed, because I consider that unplayable.
>>319844271
>what is there to optimize?
Mostly for consoles it's memory management.
For whatever reason the $50 extra for more than enough RAM for the system is what gets cuts.
>>319844752
>30 FPS in unplayable.
Lucky you weren't around for golden age games, you would have killed yourself
>>319842161
>500$
you mean 350?
>console that only gets used to play a specific selection of games
You mean all AAA PC games with very few exceptions, most of them being EarlyAccess crap and Kickstarter scams?
You know your beloved Witcher3? It's also on the PS4. MGS5? Also on PS4. FO4? Also on PS4.
Or are you implying you need a high end PC to play all but the most demanding (and usually shitty) games?
If I had a toaster (every console pleb has at least a toaster) I could still play WoW, LoL, Dota2, CS:GO, Undertale & all other PC-only indies.
The only differentiation is between consoles and HIGH-end PCs, not toaster or middle builds that everyone already owns.
>OR spend the same amount of money on a truly baller graphics card
So everyone in the world has to care about building his own rig, much less know how to do it.
It just doesn't happen. Different people have different priorities. I wouldn't be surprised that not even 10% of PC gamers have DYI rigs, the vast majority only owns a laptop, a minority owns pre-built tower PCs, and even less have a DYI
And we all know how retarded it is to build a 350$ PC just to prove the PS4 wrong. You'd end up with a compromised build, probably not even a boot SSD, and this price doesnt account for a monitor, windows, or even 1st hand parts. Every video I saw on this used mostly second hand shit.
Anyone not on drugs would spend a bit more for at least a decent 800$ build. 1200$ being usually the "sweet" price-to-performance spot
>>319844752
run = works as intended
>>319841574
That's true, a console doesn't have to run as much shit in the background and/or is built to have dedicated space to run shit in the background while playing a game compared to a PC, and thus has more dedicated power to running the game compared to a PC.
However, the thing about PC's is that for about the same amount of money as buying a console+online sub you could build a PC that is more powerful than any of the current consoles, it just won't run games as well as a console on a game by game basis because it can't be as dedicated towards playing games as consoles can.
If you build a PC starting at around $550 or so you can run games that just put the PS4/Xbone versions to complete shame though. TW3 runs like shit on consoles but even on some half-grand piece of shit PC can run it better.Sorry forgot to remove my name from this other thread
>>319844934
I was playing PC games during the "golden age."
Since my dad was in IT, he always had a powerful gaming PC.
>>319844952
20 FPS is not working as intended.
Or in some cases even less than that, like webm related.
>>319842282
i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz
4x4GB DDR3-1600
ADATA 256GB SSD
HD 7870 2GB @ 1GHz
man, must be hard being a complete retard.
"GPU is kind of maybe similar in some way... everything else is different.. GOOD ENOUGH [Post]"
>>319844942
>You know those games that you can play on PC? I can play them on consoles with inferior visuals, framerates, and control options!
Okay?
The OS protects all memory for PC applications. This means that software has to interact with the OS in order to get access to the hardware and the OS determines what it can have. The entire time a game is running on PC it's dealing with a software middleman (the OS). This is the disadvantage of the PC vs a dedicated console as software the runs on a console is much more in control of low level aspects of the hardware.
>>319845192
>Okay?
you sure show him buddy.
>>319842629
>consoles struggle to even run 60fps
Why don't you think before posting shit?
How do you think that statement is in any way true?
How come consoles run at 60fps for over 15 years down (if not more, can't bother doing the research)
It all comes down to what the dev wants to prioritize (more post-processing or higher framerate, for instance), and how good they are at managing resources.
Battlefront runs at 60fps, so does MGS5, CoD, battlefield, etc
Most devs prefer to cut framerate for some more "pretty". That's it.
ANY console can run at 60fps,
>>319845459
Thanks, I was debating throwing in a cool-kid finisher, but I decided against it.
>>319844934
60 FPS was more prevalent on consoles than ever during the golden age, but you're probably referring to 7th gen as the "golden age" so carry on
>>319842607
You're a literal nigger.
>>319845192
Wow man, hard left punch! you got me by surprise!
The way you used greentext, and that single smug word was a great finisher.
I'm devastated, my anus prolapsed
Most people just want to play games. They don't give enough of a fuck about (in some cases) better FPS/Rez to dable into the PC DYI world, when even the AMD vs Nvidia threads here are a cancerous meaningless back and forth meme war.
It's just tens of hours of research and troubleshooting, no newcomer wants to go through that. At BEST most people will get a relatively expensive pre built PC (or laptop, nowadays)
PS4 is a 350$ machine and plays almost all games a high-end PC can run, at 1/4th the price and none of the trouble.
You need to get into your thin head that not everyone is you. Not everyone has the same priorities in life or cares about the things you care about. Not everyone is a dumb frogposter, is what I mean.
>>319844942
>If I had a toaster (every console pleb has at least a toaster) I could still play WoW, LoL, Dota2, CS:GO, Undertale & all other PC-only indies.
Nope, my old system was about $700 back in 2013 and it couldn't play all modern PC exclusives at acceptable framerates/res/settings. Believe it or now, a 960 with an i5 2500k does not constitute a "toaster"
A toaster is what your mom uses and can't even play Bejeweled smoothly.
>>319843829
But anon I own consoles and pc. Am I a normal human being? Who am I now? What.. am I?
Anon, what is my purpose but to live in purgatory?
>>319846228
TL;DR: I am too stupid to do something simple
Yes anon, we know.
It's okay, I understand that most people are idiots like yourself, especially white people and niggers.
If they can get a shittier option that's more convenient, they'd gladly do so.
And that's fine, but don't pretend that your underpowered console isn't an underpowered console.
And I say this as someone who owns the weakest 8th gen console.
>>319846306
I don't think he meant a Compaq Presario dude, go buy any prebuilt desktop right now at your local office supplies store and I assure you it can run LoL and Dota
>>319846282
oh no, please stop owning me
>>319841574
Is John Carmack still relevant?
>>319841574
If that's true how come MGS5 runs much better on my PC than on PS4
I have an HD 7870, that's only marginally better than PS4's GPU. I also don't have access to LOLGDDR5 or an 8 core processor
>>319846775
Because the 8 core processor in the PS4 is a piece of shit laptop APU processor.
>>319845450
>This is the disadvantage of the PC vs a dedicated console as software the runs on a console is much more in control of low level aspects of the hardware.
In almost all windows software direct x handles all the software to hardware interactions. As direct x developed MS saw the potential to create a console that was simply a Direct X Box, or the Xbox.
As for the PS, from the PS3 forward all software execution runs under a software hypervisor to check and be sure that software isn't accessing hardware in an unintended manner. (also on the 360 but much less robust) This is part of the DRM overhead in the PS3/4. It's a rather bulky and ugly bit of software which was discovered after it was hacked.
Is this supposed to be a pro-console argument? No person would use as shit specs as console uses, you can get better specs for the price of a console.
>>319846775
>>319846903
Pretty sure it is a physical quad core with 8 threads.
>>319846903
You can't tell me the PS4's bottleneck is the processor. MGS5 uses like 5% of mine.
>>319846228
>PS4 is a 350$ machine and plays almost all games a high-end PC can run, at 1/4th the price and none of the trouble.
I could build a $350 PC that matched the terrible performance of a PS4, and would let me do all my PC stuff too.
>>319846228
>PS4 is a 350$ machine and plays almost all games a high-end PC can run, at 1/4th the price and none of the trouble.
People actually thing this is true,
>>319841574
It's objectively true.
With the same specs, you have to look at overheads.
PCs have to run drivers, OS, GUI, etc, etc. Consoles have a very tiny OS and that's it.
Just that tiny bit of extra load means the PC will perform slightly worse.
Of course, PC part specs can be multiple degrees better than consoles, even at the same market value, so the point is moot.
>>319846306
First of all you are proving your 700$ investment (double the price of a PS4) didn't even last you 2 years. So you've had to already spend more money on whichever bottleneck you had.
This is another point I wanted to adress, a console will last you a decade with no upgrading costs, and a lot of people find that appealing.
Second of all, I don't see how that rig can't run all of the games mentioned in your greentext.
Third, find me 1 PS4fag that doesn't own a 600-700$ PC, be it a laptop or tower. Everyone does. Everyone needs one. And they can run those games.
>>319846429
I'm fully admiting the PS4 isn't powerful, when did I ever even imply that? What the hell are you on?
I also don't understand your smug, higher-IQ-than-thou complex. When you are by far the worst and most immature community here. PC help threads, AMDvsNvidia threads, Lol/Dota2 threads, etc, don't last 5 posts before massive shitposting. I won't even talk about Steam trade threads, that's just some of the saddest lonely people I've ever seen.
But when it comes to PC vs consoles you act all smug and superior. It's hard to know why you'd do that.
You are not better than anyone else because you own a 1200$ PC and they have their little shitty consoles. Just different priorities.
>>319847304
>>319847204
You can't without second-hand components. It would also be a very bad investment, so go ahead.
https://pcpartpicker.com/
go ahead, prove me wrong. I'm waiting
>>319847197
>MGS5 uses like 5% of mine.
Know how I know that's wrong?
>>319847204
>I could build a $350 PC that matched the terrible performance of a PS4
well show us. don't give us that second hand shit off ebay either.
>>319846228
>none of the trouble
People still use this as an excuse? There wasn't any trouble in 6th gen, after online became a standard that all went to shit, broken games started to release, day one 20 GB patches and so on. It might be easier to just pop a disc in the drive and wait for the download to end but it is far from perfect.
>>319847441
>wanting me to build a computer for you
go mcfuck yourself dumb ass
>console vs pc shit flinging
stop being poor
>>319846587
A cheap prebuilt isn't going to be running shit at acceptable framerates and res, only a higher-end prebuilt will and that doesn't constitute a "toaster"
It's almost like no one here understands the joke behind the "toaster" meme, the joke is that a toaster is not a computer (usually) and thus has no processing power
The fact is that you're gonna need something at least as costly as a console (much more so if it's prebuilt) in order to run all modern PC exclusives at ~60 FPS, decent res (1080pish) and medium or better settings. Not everything is Undertale, things like Natural Selection 2, CoH2, Rome: TW2, UT4, Tribes: Ascend etc. exist
>>319842436
My CPU from the computer i got 8-9 years ago still meets today's requirements. Most vidya isn't as CPU intensive as you thing
RAM is dirt cheap, $30 will get you up to today's standards.
>>319842004
She a cute
>>319847441
>When you are by far the worst and most immature community here.
Pissing in an ocean of piss, etc. etc.
>You are not better than anyone else because you own a 1200$ PC and they have their little shitty consoles. Just different priorities.
Right, I'm better because I'm not an idiot and I actually did research and learned how to build a relatively cheap PC, which meant I had leftover money to buy my WiiU with.
If you can't do the few minutes of research and maybe hour at most of assembly required to build your own PC, you might be functionally retarded.
You're the kind of person who couldn't assemble a cheap deck chair from IKEA.
>You can't without second-hand components.
Just for you.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YDn8pg
>>319847441
>a console will last you a decade with no upgrading costs, and a lot of people find that appealing
10 years with an extremely limited selection of games and no other use besides playing them. And only 2 or 3 of those years, at best, will be spent playing new releases. Everything after that means you are stuck with the same crappy selection of games forever - You cannot play any newer or older ones, period.
What's funny is that in most games a similar PC setup will outperform the PS4. Most of the issue with PC versions of games right now is with vram since consoles got 16x as much ram/vram as they had last gen essentially right away and we've had to wait some time for GPU manufacturers to catch up. Apparently Pascal should have 12GB-16GB of vram which should solve the issue of PC versions of console games somehow taking up more ram/vram than the consoles have since they're apparently not bothering to optimized memory usage.
>>319846746
Yes, surprisingly. Dude is still considered pretty influential to actual developers.
>>319847658
wait, so it's cool for consoles to run at 25 fps/sub720p, but acceptable starts at ~60fps/"1080pish?" Fuck outta here with your weak ass bait.
>>319847441
>>319847465
>second hand doesn't count because I say so
>>319847441
>a console will last you a decade with no upgrading costs
Yeah now you just spend hundreds paying for online over the years instead, while it's free on PC
>>319846775
Cause your system has a) a better processor by far b) seperate video ram c) probably better quality version of the 7870 c.1) your 7870 has lolgddr5 on its ram.
>>319847441
>This is another point I wanted to adress, a console will last you a decade with no upgrading costs
This is only true if you have absolutely no standards whatsoever, what I said about my 2013 PC is true because only 60 FPS or better is acceptable. The year is 2015, not 1520. Games ran like utter dog shit near the end of last gen on consoles, if you have standards as low as console gamers, you'll be just find with whatever PC you buy now 10 years from now.
Also, generations don't normally last 10 years. Hell, 7th gen didn't even really last that long, support for even the PS3 (whose "10 year plan" is what you're referring to there) dropped off HARD after the PS4 released. And of course the 360 got dropped after the Xbone launched. On that note, the 10 years thing is actually completely disingenuous since the 360 was the best console by far until the PS3 was like 3 years old, so really, the PS3 was only relevant for around 5 or 6 years total.
>PCs outperform console
>"but it's more efficient"
consolekeks
>>319841574
Hope that'll change when DX12 drops, I know one thing Windows hog a lot of Ram & gpu's don't get to use their max potential atm, but if they do consoles will need to play ketchup.
When next gen consoles drop they need to step their game up by a tonn.
>>319848143
>Games ran like utter dog shit near the end of last gen on consoles
For instance most games had cutscenes locked at 20 fps. And a lot of games barely even got to 30 fps. Pic related. This is a game that was gimped for consoles and it still is barely playable.
>>319847770
And some benchmarks to go along with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaROihWWdE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNxOzrkggZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoT638ErboU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69atRHFMwr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxUPJdcChzE
>>319847441
>Third, find me 1 PS4fag that doesn't own a 600-700$ PC
You already undermined your own point. A PC that literally costs twice as much as a console is not a toaster.
>>319841574
The idea used to be keeping consoles low overhead by not bogging them down with extraneous shit so you can keep 60 FPS on lightware games that ran good on a TV.
That went out the fucking window after the PS2. So now we get 30 FPS locked games on pseudo-social media machines.
>>319841574
>for the same given paper spec
If only consoles that did that existed.
>>319847859
You need to learn to read better my friend.
>>319846746
I honestly would hope so, the man is fucking bright. Much more so than your average developer cog.
>>319847770
>giving him stuff ps4 doesnt include
take that shit away and consoles mstart at 500 before he bitches about $20
>>319848338
I hope you're not one of those people that claim all games before the PS360 ran at 60 fps on consoles. Many of the games people remember ran like shit. Like the GTA games. MGS2 had framerate drops from 60 fps and MGS3 was barely ever at 30 fps. SotC averaged like 20 fps.
>>319848371
Please, point me to where my statement is contradicted by the post I quoted and I'll take those lessons tomorrow.
>1080p and 60 fps is a must for PC game
>console it's ok to be less than half of that
What's wrong with Sony shitposters?
>>319848371
>The fact is that you're gonna need something at least as costly as a console (much more so if it's prebuilt) in order to run all modern PC exclusives at ~60 FPS, decent res (1080pish) and medium or better settings
Are you fucking retarded?
>>319848421
>take that shit away
you're literally getting the memory, hdd, case, power supply, and a headset for free.
>>319848421
Nah, you need the wireless card if you want wifi connectivity.
The PS4 has it, so the build has to have it too, even though the wifi on that PCIE card will be much faster than the PS4's.
The KB+M are self-explanatory.
The headset's just for shits and giggles really.
It's nice to have, even if it is a cheap turd.
>i3 + 750ti beating the shit out of better parts in the PS4 and Xbone
>>319846282
>more games
>other uses for powerful computer
>instant access to internet when stuck
>gamer LEDs for leet haxors
>you could shitpost on /v/ while playing games
what do I win?
>>319848814
... Can't speak on the processor, but you're willfully retarded if you don't believe the 750ti matches performance of the PS4, cold numbers. The Xbone doesn't even compare.
the PC is a very poor market if you want to sell anything but f2p p2w mmo shit
>>319848935
He's talking about real-world performance m8.
>>319848935
7870 demolishes the 750 ti
>>319841701
>i dont want to play games
FTFY
>>319848973
What about the XCOM reboot that sold many times better on PC than on consoles?
>>319848973
Consoles are a very poor market if you want to sell anything but AAA FPS games and sports games.
>>319848608
That's incredible, you quoted the thing you have a problem with and still didn't realize there's nothing wrong with it at all.
Where did I say 25 FPS is OK on consoles? Or sub 720p? First off, modern consoles run most things at 1080p (ish), and second, shit framerates aren't acceptable on consoles just because that's what they are forced to deal with. You play at those framerates because you have no choice. On PC, we do.
>>319849095
few exceptions
>>319849095
th-that doesn't count
>>319849228
>You
I wish /v/ had ids.
That wasn't the argument at all.
>>319849098
better market then the PC
>>319849287
What about Ubisoft publishing numbers showing that they make about 1/3 of their profits from PC?
>>319846282
>no DRM
>>319849365
than*
And no, not really.
In fact, aside from maybe casual candy crush garbage, that's probably the worst market you can possibly have.
>>319849390
Consoles have built-in DRM anon.
For instance, try to go into your PS4's file manager and edit a game's .ini files.
Or even find them.
>>319841574
APIs like DX and old OpenGl got in the way.
Wow all that optimization and consoles still run like shit.
>>319849031
damn, then the PS4 must use something worse than that and the Xbone a further nerfed version
>>319849387
nice source
>>319849440
it true man, most pc gamers wait for a sale and the net return is far less then any console gains
besides VC just look at these japanese game numbers that sold ABYSMALLY
>>319847645
poor or not there's isn't a reason to buy any console of the market, just Wii U and PC and you are able to play any game on the market because there's no games on PS4 and Xbone.
Buying a lot of consoles is a waste of money.
singular specs are easier to optimize performance
thats why consoles run games better and cost 200-300 while to get console parity you will need to buy like 600-800$ computer
in during some fucking pc master race pleb from reddit tries to spam links to some random build guide, good luck running shit like far cry 4 or batman better than ps4 /xbone
>>319849690
Jap games sell like shit on all platforms m8, aside from the really popular ones on Nintendo platforms and the occasional Squeenix/Crapcom game.
>>319849628
Its mostly because of the CPU that framerates are shit in the consoles. THey use fucking netbook parts, not even full laptop parts.
>>319849726
>while to get console parity you will need to buy like 600-800$ computer
>>319849763
nope they sell better on consoles because japan plays on consoles/handhelds
there is a reason why japan treats pc gamers like 2nd class citizens
>>319849839
next gen games work out of the box and run decently
you shitters come out of the woodwork to shitpost games that get ported to pc because your toasters cant run it
A console is made exclusively to play games (well they fucking used to be but they're turning into social media hubs now), so all of its resources go directly towards the game.
A PC has to deal with a lot more things, like the heavier operating system and any other applications the user wants running at the same time as the game.
The smartphone has to do everything that the PC does as well as everything a phone does, so it can apply only minimal resources to games.
>>319849881
>nope they sell better on consoles
And they still sell like shit.
Which is why so many Jap console devs are turning to mobile/Steam as last-resort options to make some quick bucks.
>>319849726
I convinced myself of this to buy a PS4.
>they just have to optimize the game for the console since all the consoles are the same
30 fps with dips all over the place is not optimization. It's shit.
>>319849957
and it doesnt do them any good
I mean no one likes good games anymore
people just want GHRAPHICS and FEELS
>>319850079
Or, get this, maybe the games they're making just aren't very good?
Nintendo games don't have GRAPHICS or FEELS, but they tend to sell pretty well.
Same for actually decent Jap games like Bloodborne.
A game being Japanese doesn't automatically make it good m8, shame so many weebs here are so delusional that they don't realize this.
>>319841574
If what he says is true, why does every game look better on PC??
>>319849690
>nice source
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-pc-accounts-for-nearly-a-quarter-of-ubisofts-first-quarter-sales/
And here's the report
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/comsite_common/en-US/images/55ubisoft%20q1%20fy16%20english%20finaltcm99211248.pdf
It's on page 3. And I was wrong, it's not 1/3 because they're showing more than 3 platforms but PC is only 4% behind the PS4 and 12% ahead of the Xbone.
>>319849726
>>319849928
he going hard in the bait
but this isnt reddit we know no one is this dumb
>>319850292
Because consoles are exceptionally weak.
>>319849690
I think the worse thing about you arguing is that your defending corporate profits over consumer rights or conveniences.
Like I hope you don't think not being able to give corporations in as much money as possible is the reason to own a console.
>>319849881
>Japanese games that have PC versions cannot be purchased IN JAPAN, their home country
>but the PlayStation versions are readily available
>PC version of a Japanese game almost ALWAYS comes out after the console versions
>especially with ArcSys games, the PC version is obviously obsoleted due to this while the PlayStation version is the up-to-date version
>a niche within a niche that's somehow being restrained from potentially growing further
>surprising PC doesn't get any Japanese games in the end
Hmmmm... there's a term for these kinds of actions, but I forget what it's called. Anti-something...Funny how it's always the Japanese console makers that do this. MS wishes they could get away with this.
Seeing what he was able to do with RAGE on 360 at 60fps I'm inclined to believe him. Doubt you could hit 30fps with a X800 or whatever the 360's equivalent was. Most game developers aren't John Fucking Carmack though.
Plus DX12 will supposedly significantly close the gap in performance.
>>319850498
Everyone who's not retarded knows how anti-consumer Sony is.
http://boingboing.net/2005/11/14/sony-anticustomer-te.html
>>319841574
Why the hell do you use twitter?
>>319850292
consoles have shit hardware but a better optimized OS for video games
PCs can have the best hardware but you have to put up with shitty windows
steamOS was supposed to be an OS optimized for video games but it's shit
>>319847658
> acceptable framerates/res/settings
> ~60 FPS, decent res (1080pish) and medium or better settings.
You went full retard. Current gen consoles can't even pull off those "acceptable" settings in most modern AAA games. If that's "acceptable" settings what are moderately good ones? 144fps+4k res+ultra settings?
The person you first replied to said you could RUN the games. If you say a game "doesn't run" if you can't get it to pull off those settings you're committing language murder.
>>319850614
Lol, no, DX12 is going to give a 3-5% boost in performance for the Xboners.
>>319850963
I'm talking about PC games, you fucking moron. The APIs are the issue with PC game performance, and that is finally getting addressed.
>>319850614
Rage had a dynamic resolution that went as high as 1280x720. And as low as probably half the horizontal resolution, so 640x720 or something, and lower on the PS3.
>>319851087
Shame Vulkan is dragging its heels so we're going to be stuck with another DirectX pseudo-monopoly. At least a few games that I'm looking forward to are using OpenGL.
>tfw you have both consoles and a decent PC and enjoy playing on them equally
Its a pretty good feeling. My only wish is that my roommate's Xbone had more than 4 games worth playing.
>>319850626
>every source is a broken link
I know Sony is shit but you could've at least tried
>>319841574
Yes but I could buy the PC with 4x the specs of the console for the same price so it doesn't matter
>>319841574
Developers can focus more on one hardware configuration than 2 or more.
>>319848457
>I hope you're not one of those people that claim all games before the PS360 ran at 60 fps on consoles.
Of course not. But games before had an easier time pushing the hardware to get more out of them.
The PS2 lasted over a decade for a reason.
>>319841574
That's not the case in practice, where PS4 games perform basically identically to PC games with similar-level hardware.
>>319841574
That he's old and doesn't make good games anymore.
>>319843504
Read masters of doom
Carmack is one of the pioneers of PC gaming.
>>319847441
>lost the argument so resorting to attacking the character of his opposition
>calls other people immature
Christ, grow the fuck up.
I don't want consoles anymore because I prefer a monitor over a fuckhuge TV. I'm more comfy in my room on an ergonomic chair with my 1920x1200 monitor than I am having to go downstairs and wait 5ever to set up the console.
Plus, PC games are retardedly cheap. My steam library has 100+ games (most of which I still play) and I think I've played $10 at most per game. Now you want me to spend a couple hundred on a console and what, $50+ per game? It's not worth it in this day of games being shit on release, patching, DLC. I wait for GOTY editions of everything.
Now fuck off console plebs while I play BF4 on one screen and emulate the International Zodiac Job System edition of FFXII on the other (patched into English).
>>319844271
> I don't think you can achieve a level of UE4 just coding entirely in assembly or c++ in a timely cost efficient manner.
Right
Devs will never switch over to D or Rust and actually be able to do this.
>>319850741
>Current gen consoles can't even pull off those "acceptable" settings in most modern AAA games. If that's "acceptable" settings what are moderately good ones?
Never said consoles run games at acceptable standards.
>The person you first replied to said you could RUN the games.
Doesn't matter, that's a dumbass argument, which is my point. Getting the game to boot is not the goal when you sit down to play a game. Playing them smoothly is, and you need good hardware to play all PC exclusives smoothly.
>>319841574
It means carmack is now a console-baby
Too bad they have no games. Unless you really really really want bloodborne or mario i guess
>>319852271
>Not using a TV as a monitor
pleb
>>319841768
Here's your (you) because nobody cared
>>319841574
Who am I to argue with the Mackdaddy?
>>319844271
Since colleges are shitting out retard programmers by the score their software is probably bloated and slow by standard.
This has been known for a while, though it's not nearly as simple as that. Just means that it's easy to optimize for consoles because you're working around a single spec, so you can be really precise with your optimization as opposed to just throwing it out to the wind of different PC specs and firmware and all that bullshit you can't predict.
There are still some hard limitations though, I think I read about some cache or streaming VRAM whatever bullshit that limits the texture quality on consoles or something, I don't know look it up sheesh.
>>319852747
>we weren't able to play games smoothly for the better part of video games' entire existence
You heard it first on /v/ folks
>>319841701
consoles don't exactly have a light operating system anymore, they just have part of their hardware dedicated to running their OS.
For example with the PS4 only 6 of the 8 cores in its APU were for gaming, with the other 2 designated for running the OS.
But they recently announced they would be unlocking one of those 2 cores to developers, so only 1 core would be for the OS.
The reason PC can be so much more powerful while not delivering proportionate performance is because of optimizations, it's hard to optimize software for so many use cases and hardware types.
However PCs still manage to be competitively prices despite this handicap, mainly because being sold as separate parts means less overhead, the manufacture of each part can just focus on creating the most competitive product in that specific category.
Meanwhile console manufacturers have to orchestrate deals with several manufacturers to get their machines to spec and then manufacture the finished unit.
>>319853136
>memecentre.com
This is the worst fucking part of the PC community. The elitist memers from reddit. Decked out with their razer gear and cashews of chaos. Trawling through the internet looking for console users to poke fun at.
It's not very becoming guys. You just look like autistic retards. Be mature enough to know you're getting the better experience without looking like a total sperg.
>>319842497
pancakedbeast is the kind of person who posts here
>>319842614
why was johnny rocking such a huge monitor back then
>>319841574
>implying
Desktops are allowed to be more powerful then consoles because they have better resistance to heat and have more access to power. Consoles parts are unlocked to reduce power consumption, and heat on purpose...which limits it's potential power to begin with.
>Muh Optimizination.
A overclocked ps4-class pc will beat optimized PS4 in sheer performance, and benchmarks. Low-level access to consoles just means you are squeezing every drop of a fruit. Optimization consoles isn't going to increase gpu metric units of performance, while overclocking actually does
>>319841574
carmack didnt make good games since quake 3
thats why he went making fucking rockets and failed so fucking hard
>>319853342
Games used to run well on consoles way back when.
>>319841574
The HAL ruins everything.
>>319844271
There is ALWAYS something to optimize, and just 'coding it in assembly' is not the way you do it.
I optimize code for open source projects as a hobby and rarely do people implement things in the fastest way possible
>People having their code repeat the same operations unnecessarily
>People having their code go way out of scope, for example working on a huge list of objects to affect change to a few
>Making very large for loops that can be eliminated or extremely reduced with better coding
and finally
>People not flattening out the usage of cpu or gpu so that lag spikes, and thus framedrops occur
>>319841574
Megatextures.
>>319853612
What a sad realization
>>319845525
>60 fps
Yeah, at 720p
A console is like an a8 7600m
>>319847441
>Third, find me 1 PS4fag that doesn't own a 600-700$ PC, be it a laptop or tower. Everyone does. Everyone needs one. And they can run those games.
Nigga, really? Imagine if you didn't buy that PS4 and threw that money into that PC making it 1050$. With that budget you could go way better than a PS4.
Like someone once said. Building a PC is like lego for grown-ups, you might be using the manual a bit but hell, you can read right?
Seriously, even sockets and shit are made so it won't fit the other way.
is Carmack still butthurt that RAGE launch was a massive failure on pc?
>>319848269
And on equivalent PC hardware, the game wouldn't even start
>>319841574
He means he's a retard.
>>319841574
test
>>319858184
That's because minimum settings on PC is still much higher than the consoles versions. You may be right but it's not like we could test thing in any game because the majority of them are the same where even running at lowest settings isn't as low as on consoles. This was especially true towards the end of last gen.
this is the designated shitposting thread right?
>>319847860
>comparing second hand pc parts to new ps4 prices
fucking retard
>>319849952
>The smartphone has to do everything that the PC does as well as everything a phone does, so it can apply only minimal resources to games.
as well as do it in the most power efficient way possible
>>319843724
>I am a nigger who can't plan ahead, do research, or maintain a time preference low enough to make it past the 7/11 without picking up some Old E and a pack of Newports
>>319853410
can you be less autisticly fucking mad about these memes? lmfao
go write a fucking book about it and cry, literally no one cares
My thoughts exactly:>>319841994
>>319841574
This "twice the perf" is complete bullshit. Time to ask John for proof to back these claims.
>>319842614
>that pos mac up front on the
This is why he is still butthurt about pc
>>319841574
>What did he mean with this?
That games arent optimized for PC.
Also he pulled numbers our of his ass.
Just because he is a big name doesnt mean he isnt wrong here.
>>319841574
>I'm old and don't know shit about current drivers the post
Bet he is still butthurt as all hell that his favorite "mac" is shit now
>>319859601
full blown autistic rage
