I'm not baiting, I'm genuinely curious.
>stock silent protagonist devoid of all personality
>boring fantasy world
>paper-thin RPG elements
>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
>essentially the exact same story-line over and over told only slightly differently
>script wavers between mediocre and cringey
>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
>awful dungeon-design
How the hell are Nintendo able to print a new iteration of this shit on their every console and people praise it like it's the motherload of gaming?
These faults could be overlooked when we were 12, but now?
Is it all nostalgia?
>>319816245
Honestly I totally agree.
It's definitely more that it does its own thing though. Games that follow the Zelda formula are surprisingly sparse.
>>319816436
Yeah, but I mean, there's a reason for this, right? It's not an incredibly good formula to begin with.
I mean, I think I can start every Zelda game with the question "I wonder how many dungeons I'm going to have to clear to save the same bitch, with the same sword and gain 3 nice triangles?".
This is a monolithic franchise but I can't grasp how or why.
I could think of MANY more franchises that make me wonder "why is this popular" more so than Zelda. CoD, Madden, Asscreed, Undertale, etc... In fact all other things considered, Zelda deserves its relative popularity.
>>319816245
babby's first action rpg :3
>>319816245
>stock silent protagonist devoid of all personality
Fair enough
>boring fantasy world
At times, yes
>paper-thin RPG elements
Well it's not an RPG series but okay
>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
Pretty much
>essentially the exact same story-line over and over told only slightly differently
No, not really
>script wavers between mediocre and cringey
Not interested in your opinion
>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
Well done, you played Minish Cap and came on /v/ to make a thread about it
>awful dungeon-design
More opinionated garbage. You lost me
>How the hell are Nintendo able to print a new iteration of this shit on their every console and people praise it like it's the motherload of gaming?
>i'm not baiting, I'm genuinely curious.
Yeah, sure.
>>319816637
I think the reason I chose Zelda to pick on was because it's been popular for so fucking long. Much longer than Asscreed or CoD. And Undertale isn't even a series (yet, God help us).
It's mainly about execution I think. You can analyze the game and not see a whole lot there, but in practice it's very enjoyable. It's greater than the sum of its parts, as it were.
>>319816846
>No, not really
>>319816636: "I wonder how many dungeons I'm going to have to clear to save the same bitch, with the same sword and gain 3 nice triangles?"
most people grew up with nintendo and everyone knows the name, so its like a mix of nostalgia and trendyness. Also pretty much everyone who plays video games has played a zelda game just because of how popular it is.
>>319816896
That's such a vague excuse though. I mean, none of the elements in Zelda are usually particularly well done, as mentioned in op.
How can a sum of mediocre parts somehow create a series that spans almost 30 years?
Right place, right time, right formula.
The first Zelda along with OoT basically skyrocketed Zelda to its place as of now. Could've been any series, such as Mana or Ys, but Zelda ended up taking the throne.
I think its popularity is, all-in-all, well-deserved.
I guess its just one of those things people like that cant really be explained.
I mean you could probably say the same about Mario, i never really got into it because it just plainly just doesnt interest me as much.
>not baiting
>still calls it shit
Yeah sure.
They're popular because they're the pioneers of the industry that every game leans on. If Zelda does something, every game for the next 5 years follows suit. It's the "cool kid" everyone wants to be like.
Observe.
TP:
•Introduced photorealistic lighting for when you carry around a lantern hitched to your hip inside grottos or dark place (arguably the best parts of the game).
•Combinable items.
•Roll dodging in every direction.
•Golden-noir filter.
Every action game last-gen and this gen do that now.
Skyward Sword
•Big empty overworld that is hundreds of miles across.
•Artsy-DOF LOD and a unique style between realistic and cartooney.
•1:1 sword-fighting with 100+ different degrees of swinging.
Now every game does the former two (MGSV), and attempts when possible to do the latter (MGRR/Dishonored).
>>319816993
Yes, but why? Why is Zelda somehow the current barrier-of-entry to the action RPG?
I know people who bought the WiiU solely for the CHANCE that there might be a Zelda game on it.
What joys could possibly spark such autistic glee?
>>319816245
Oh look, it's another babby who played Dark Souls and thinks that any game that isn't 90% dodgerolling by volume is shit.
>>319817212
Isn't Ys more popular in Japan?
>>319817212
It did something decent a decade ago, and has been producing mediocre crap ever since. How the hell can a game that manages to do none of it's features "well" somehow be one of the longest running Nintendo franchises?
>>319816245
>stock silent protagonist devoid of all personality
This is a Nintendo thing. It's so that the player can project their own personality onto the character.
>boring fantasy world
Could be true, but it's charming, and easy to like.
>paper-thin RPG elements
So? It's barely an RPG game. Not every game has to have the exact same mechanics and depth thereof.
>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
Again, easy to like. If you want more challenge why not play something else?
>essentially the exact same story-line over and over told only slightly differently
Hero's Journey, bro
>script wavers between mediocre and cringey
I fail to see this. The storyline is so minimalist that it doesn't really have an opportunity to be cringeworthy.
>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
What? Have you only played Wind Waker?
>awful dungeon-design
Oh, okay. So you have.
>>319817428
But it does all of its features well. Every single one of them. That's why the series is so beloved. Some games are weaker than others, but they all work great, and that's something worth celebrating.
>>319817275
No, you couldn't. Mario did a few things really well, and still do those few things really well.
The platforming and thus controls where tight as fuck, and each level tried to force the player to master the responsive jumping and running.
They did it well then, and they do it well now, but Zelda does nothing well now. How does that work?
>>319817397
Dark Souls is a very good game, there's no reason for rivalry.
> "I wonder how many dungeons I'm going to have to clear to save the same bitch, with the same sword and gain 3 nice triangles?"
Now that's shitposting.
>>319817415
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm talking strictly about what I know, so I could be wrong in some regards.
>>319817428
You seem kind of butthurt to be honest
>I'm not baiting
Yes, you are.
>>319816846
>>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
>Well done, you played Minish Cap and came on /v/ to make a thread about it
Not OP, but there are no hard Zelda puzzles. You should be able figure out exactly what you need to do in the first few seconds of entering a room.
That said, the story progression and the requirements for moving it forward can be mindbogglingly tedious to figure out.
>Need to do fire dungeon.
>OK, go all the way back to the lost woods and find Saria to learn a song and make the chief guy dance so that he gives you a ring to blow up the entrance...
It's really annoying because I'm not 8 and wondering through Hyrule looking for the arbitrary next step isn't really all that interesting to me.
Friendly reminder that the best Zelda game wasn't made by Nintendo
Dragonslayer was first :3
>>319817282
>pioneers
What.
>photorealistic lighting
Literally, lol. There are waaay earlier games that did this than TP.
>Combinable items.
Dark Cloud 2.
>Roll dodging in every direction.
Kingdom Hearts.
>Golden-noir filter.
Are you seriously arguing that Zelda made filters popular?
>Big empty overworld that is hundreds of miles across.
Daggerfall.
>Artsy-DOF LOD and a unique style between realistic and cartooney.
Dark Cloud 2.
>1:1 sword-fighting with 100+ different degrees of swinging.
Meaningless, and has been widely regarded as the worst part of that game.
>>319816942
what is Majora's Mask
what is Link's Awakening
what is Spirit Tracks
what is Wind Waker
You can't just insult the very basics of a genre. Dungeon exploration is basically what makes the Zelda games. You're picking apart staples of a series and calling them shit. Anything can sound bad under this kind of criticism.
Zelda games are what happens when you infuse an RPG with an action adventure. It appeals to fans of both, and the rich history and lore that comes with each installment appeals to fans who play for the story, music, and characters, which are all great in my opinion. There are a lot of franchises that debuted on the NES that never saw the light of day after their first 1 or 2 games, so the fact that Zelda has survived this long clearly means something.
Just go and play the games instead of insulting them.
>>319817282
>•Introduced photorealistic lighting for when you carry around a lantern hitched to your hip inside grottos or dark place (arguably the best parts of the game).
This would have happened eventually, even if TP didn't do it.
>•Combinable items.
This already existed
>•Roll dodging in every direction.
I could probably give you this one, but maybe for OOT or MM and not TP.
>•Golden-noir filter.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
>>319817756
Yes it was ;)
>>319817428
>cod4mw.png
>can't even be bothered to find an image
gr8 b8 m8
>>319816245
Because a great Zelda game came out in 1998 and titles come out so infrequently the general good will is maintained. Sort of like a rock skipping across a pond. No great effort or energy is put into the motion after the first throw, but it stays above water thanks to that momentum and generally not fucking up after.
TL/DR: Consistent quality and a great start on the current formula.
PS. This is not me saying OoT is the best ever. Just that it is a land mark whose fame the 3D games have been riding ever since. The series really hasn't changed or innovated, nor commited any great sins since.
>>319817565
>but they all work great
Is this vague definition really the reason Zelda exists? Name some of the great points of Zelda then. Give me the reason why there needs to be new Zelda game.
>there are people that play Zelda "games" on this very board
disgusting
>>319817607
It really isn't. It's janky and broken and sells its awful hit detection as a feature. Its story is nonexistant to the point that even Zelda shits on it. Its music is generic overblown crap. Its art style is bland photorealism and its design aesthetic is "ridiculous armor."
FROM does little well.
>>319817653
>butthurt
About what? A game that has sales-wise not been relevant in a console generation? What's there to be mad about? I'm just trying to understand why we cling to something not a single person ITT has been able to explain why should even exist.
Can I just chime in about what I really love about Zelda?
I always loved Zelda games with a passion, but I never really knew why. Until recently, it was just an arbitrary reason. Now, I know just exactly what I see in Zelda:
It has, for lack of a better word, weight.
The characters are animated, the combat makes you feel as if your sword actually has weight to it and enemies respond likewise (compare it to Bayonetta which, while an outstanding game in its own right, has combat that feels like your shots and slashes are just going right through the enemy and dealing arbitrary damage), the characters are all meaningful and serve a purpose while keeping the amount of characters reasonable (compare to Ys which again, while a superb series in its own right, chocks its games full to the brim with characters, some more important than others), and the atmosphere feels really immersive.
The games are all incredibly well-rounded and meaty experiences. It's like eating a nice steak or pizza.
That's my reasoning.
>>319817664
>"Zelda is not hard! You should be able to figure out how to do X with ease!" meme.
>Proceeds to explain how he progressed in the wrong direction in OoT thinking he solved it.
You're supposed to open the way to Darunia's room first, then take fire by using one of the two sticks hidden in Goron City like one of them tells you and light the Bomb Flowers at the Lost Woods shortcut.
You took the wrong, a.k.a. the long way.
>>319818172
>great start
I can kinda' meet you on this one. It did do very well and revolutionized the way we adventured in games when it came out.
>consistent quality
Here's where I fall off. It was good back then because it was the only game that did what it did. Now there are plenty of games that does what it does (Ys, Dark Chronicle, etc.) but better.
>>319818183
Great music, great visual style, extremely fluid gameplay, fun bosses, great items, you know, literally everything.
You couldn't come up with any actual criticisms so I don't see where you get off complaining about "vague definitions," frankly.
>>319818309
Yeah, Zelda games are like pizza in a way.
The main "Dungeon---story----dungeon'' formula is like the bread
The storyline that keeps the game together and gives reasoning behind the progression is like the cheese and tomato whatever on top. It makes the game a Zelda game, and it makes the bread into pizza. Essential to the game, no matter how minimal or vague.
The toppings are like everything else. Side quests, collectables like heart pieces and rupees and shit. Not esssential, but there to make the experience more customized and enjoyable to some.
>>319818615
Production value is a quality that matters. We all like to pretend it doesn't but we're wrong.
Whether any of us like it or not, being 3D with a world that feels "weighty"*** vs Ys and their entertaining but ultimately paper thin, gamey worlds is a big deciding factor for people.
***>>319818309
>The games are all incredibly well-rounded and meaty experiences. It's like eating a nice steak or pizza.
>>319818515
yeah a lot of people just seem to skim through these games and the finer details like that just fly over their heads..
It's like they're expecting everything in the game to be spoonfed to them because that's what all the anti-Zelda posters have been feeding them, and they play the games only to feed their confirmation bias
>>319816245
>devoid of all personality
Stopped reading there. You've literally never played a Zelda game in 15 years.
>>319818648
>Great music
Hit or miss. Incredibly subjective.
>great visual style
Generic as fuck in most entries. Incredibly subjective.
>extremely fluid gameplay
Other games are way more fluid than Zelda, and making a game fluid is not an achievement anymore. It was back on the NES, but isn't now. Incredibly subjective.
>fun bosses
Incredibly subjective. Not to mention there are lots of games that do boss-mechanics better and more complex than Zelda. But as mentioned, incredibly subjective.
>great items
What.
Zelda is mediocre and you can't explain why it should exist when other games outshine it on practically every front except longevity.
>>319819005There is no reason to play a Zelda game after living longer than 15 years.
>>319819096
>Incredibly subjective
The beauty of subjectivity is when you want to debate it, your only tool close to objectivity is majority rule.
"Fun bosses" isn't debatable outside of looking up how many people agree vs disagree.
"Bosses that demand and reward high technical skill" is entirely different.
>>319818091
Twilight Princess was the first game to show off lighting like that in its 04 and 05 trailers, years before RE5's original trailer that was supposed to pioneer it (before it was moved to the 360 and downgraded). It was supposed to have procedural burning for every wooden object in the game too (which I think only Uncharted has done).
TP introduced combinable items in a non-RPG setting as far as I know. You can combine any bombs with arrows, or arrows with a sniper scope, bait with fishing pole, lantern oil with lantern to fill it on the menu or in real-time, etc.
TP invented side-hopping into a roll-dodge. In fact I think in the demo, you could choose to parry by pressing B to attack at that moment as an enemy was about to, or dodge-roll (into a parry if you want), before they did away with parrying completely.
I'm talking about the golden-noir filter used in the intro, that is ripped off by Deus Ex and some other game.
Personally, I see Zelda as Disney movies, which are emotional trips in the first place. They are not deep or smart, but they do offer good emotional experience for children and quality is always top notch.
I don't want it to have like canon or shared universe, every Zelda game should be stand alone title that showcases power of new generation and gives something different from previous, yet the same at the core emotional experience.
>>319816245
Simple, they are comfy adventure games with quite a few things to do without having too many random things to do.
>>319819185
Ugh, fuck, I knew this asshole would crop up eventually. The ''nintendo is 4 babies! XD LOL!'' meme. Jesus fuck, I know for a fact these are the exact people that just sit on their asses playing Mass Effect, Dark Souls, CoD, Fallout and the like. Making noise and whinging about DLC that they're eventually going to buy because they don't understand the appeal of buying a large, fully finished, quality game that isn't littered with bugs.
You want to know why people love Zelda? Play the Wind Waker or Majora's Mask and you'll understand why. It's gaming bliss and still amazing to play even after a decade. Zelda has never been about being flashy and an over complicated mess that most adventure RPG games today like to try and be. It's about taking the core essentials of a game and refining them to be as much of an enjoyable experience as possible. It has an extremely colorful and loveable cast as well that makes it worth experiencing.
Even Skyrim does the whole Mash the attack button to win thing. In fact a lot of what you said could be applied to Skyrim as well, it just presents itself in a way that appeals to adults and edgy teens whereas Zelda goes for a general audience feeling. It's about getting the most out of what you have so little of. It's just presented to us in a way where we're oblivious to it. Dark Souls, the Witcher, Elder Scrolls, almost every game does it. Think about it. Zelda pioneered this type of gameplay and it continues to make advancements in it as well, that's why people love it so much. And if you truly want one of the most unique Zelda experience that basically shuts down everything in OP's post, play Majora's Mask or the Wind Waker.
it's a series anyone of any age can enjoy
>>319816245
>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
>awful dungeon-design
sounds like someone that's only played wind waker
Because they games are fun.
because MM and OOT are the 2 best JRPGs ever. Name another one that has good character, level, overworld and dungeon design with fun varied weapons, items
>>319816245
I'll give you a quick rundown as someone whose known the series since the 80's.
Link and Zelda in general are Iconic in gaming as a long standing series that when people think "VIDEOGAMES!", he's one of the characters that pop into millions of peoples minds. Not only this but he's also counterpart to Mario as a main hero in Nintendo, which despite the younger generations protests otherwise is a huge thing. This is why, despite its declining quality thanks to that casual fuckface Eiji Aonuma,...it remains popular.
That said, I have no answer for why it has managed to stay popular in gaming circles as it is now. The series has completely eroded in terms of quality. Complete and total Reliance on physical gimmicks for pushing new gameplay ideas has staled Zelda as a franchise. The thing that made people Love and Adora Zelda for so long was that it continued to push gameplay boundaries within its own franchise. Just when you thought it couldn't get better, it does in some way shape or form.
Since Aonuma got in though, gameplay took a back seat to engineering ideas around gimmicks whether physical or ingame. New ideas are thrown out or shunned in fear of straying too far from the established "This is Zelda, this is what Link is supposed to do, dont stray from it" formula. Things that push the series into new ground simply dont exist anymore. This is why along with having a horrible gimmick for its main control method, Skyward sword was so stale and will destroy peoples idea of a "Zelda cycle" as it will never go mainstream love like others did.
>>319820146
Wind Waker HD should've fixed Tri-Force quest and difficulty. Wind Waker is my first Zelda, but I think it's a rather weak game. Surprisingly, I enjoyed exploring and sailing and treasure hunting much more than game's selling point. And combat was decent. And it's comfy as fuck.
>>319817756
>implying
>>319816245
>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
>spam A to kill things
>spam A
>A
LOL FAGGOT, THE A BUTTON IS ROLL OR INTERACT
>>319816245
Yeah, your description sounds too much like "not actually having played Zelda," so I'm going to assume you have not played Zelda, and discard your genuine curiosity.
>>319817302
fun
>>319818231
Here's your reply
>>319816245
no
no
yes
no
yes, thats the point of the series
no
they are kids games, yes
zelda games exist besides majoras mask
>>319816245
>>stock silent protagonist devoid of all personality
It was one of the first to do so and Nintendo can't even really seem to decide if he's just supposed to be an audience surrogate or his own character at times. Remember, every Link is basically the embodiment of the concept of courage and every individual Link has a distinct personality.
>>boring fantasy world
It's not as detailed as it could be, but it's one of the most unique fantasy worlds in gaming. Sorry it's not your typical Tolkien-esque fantasy world and actually comes up with fairly original ideas.
>>paper-thin RPG elements
It's not even an RPG franchise, you fucking idiot. Do people STILL think it is?
>>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
Combat could be better than it was, but there's more to it than that when you factor in certain techniques in certain games, not to mention items. Then there's the fact that it arguably revolutionized combat in a three-dimensional space from the third-person by introducing a hard lock-on system anyway. And SS had the motion controls anyway.
>>essentially the exact same story-line over and over told only slightly differently
Story's not even the focus of the Zelda series, and there are a few games where the story is different enough from typical Zelda games.
>>script wavers between mediocre and cringey
If anything, I'd say Zelda writing is consistently better than most games, but there you go not really knowing what you were talking about again. I can't think of a whole lot of games whose script compares to OoT's or even WW's.
>>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
Not really? Zelda is one of the few franchises that even bothers with puzzle-solving anymore, and it was the codifier for puzzles in video games.
(1/2)
>>319823064
(2/2)
>>awful dungeon-design
Uh, no? Zelda is actually very unique b/c most games do not have dungeons the way Zelda does. Not very many games, especially these days, have the intricate level design, incorporating complex puzzles that require you to solve in order to finish the dungeon. It's pretty much the only series that even really does that anymore, aside from maybe the Batman: Arkham games. Actually that sort of thing is dying b/c of the sheer difficulty of designing complex levels like that. You have to factor in so many things when making a Zelda dungeon.
In fact, that was actually the DUMBEST one of your points. Name like 5 other series that consistently have levels as intricately designed as the Legend of Zelda's dungeons. I know this is bait but dammit, that shit triggered me.
>>319816245
>>stock silent protagonist devoid of all personality
true
>>boring fantasy world
this is bait
>>paper-thin RPG elements
its not an rpg its an action adventure game
>>literally one-button-combat, spam A to kill things and dodge if you're in the mood
true
>>essentially the exact same story-line over and over told only slightly differently
true
>>script wavers between mediocre and cringey
true
>>uninspired and easily-solved puzzles
false
>>awful dungeon-design
false
>>319816245
nintendo took all the wrong elements to make zelda sequels. go and play zelda 1 right now if you haven't, its seriously fun.
>>319820678
No need to curse others like that. I dislike Aonuma but he's been with the series since OoT and is credited as one of the directors for it.
He's a liar, and a hack, and I pray he gets moved to a position more suitable for his expertise, but I wouldn't want him removed from the team completely. Everyone has their merits.
Also, SS could still go mainstream if they remaster it with analog-linked controls for the sword and heavily altered gameplay. The only problem is the bug net, uses full virtual sim control. There will never be a way to emulate that without a Wiimote+ specifically.
>>319816245
read this if you love zelda, or dislike it but want to see the potential in it http://tevisthompson.com/saving-zelda/
>>319817756
That game got a fucking weird english localization
>cutting the characters names in half
none of the other western translations do that either, it's just english.
