Oy! Why has popular opinion for this game shifted so suddenly from favor to disfavor (including my own)?
Is it because modern Zelda is so bad that we can objectively see this is where the flaws began? Or is it just that we're finally waking up to the fact that Nintendo sucked during the GCN era except for Double Dash, Melee, Starfox Assault, and Twilight Princess (if you hate this, you are tasteless. The game sucked on the Wii but GCN is GOAT)?
TWW used to be up there with OoT, ALttP, and the other pre-2001 Zeldas. Now, it's barely above the low tier (PH, OoA, SS, ALBW, ST in that order).
Discuss.
>>319749708
>Discuss
Nah, I'd rather call you a cocksucker.
You cocksucker.
IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR BROS
>PalletOfWiiUs.jpg
>including my own
Why the fuck are you asking us to explain your shitty opinions?
Wind Waker is an absolutely great game, despite needing a couple years more dev time.
>>319749708
It arguably the best 3D Zelda.
This is weak bait.
Like, who are you even trying to bait here? Are you a butthurt TPfag?
It looks like I may have underestimated the lack of taste in night /v/ yet again.
I know it's typically PC gamers at this time of day who have been deprived of the joys and beauties of console gaming, but dang you take it to a whole new level if you don't think I'm making a good point.
It started the downfall of Zelda with it's locked jumps, mostly linear story and dungeon progression, and forced cutscenes when you re-enter rooms. Like, did someone playtest the game? I already KNOW nobody playtested TP and SS, but even those don't make you watch as many cutscenes as TWW.
>>319749708
>Why has popular opinion for this game shifted so suddenly from favor to disfavor (including my own)?
Because you're replaying it in HD right now and at this moment you can compare it to newer titles, like TP and SS, that have been called shitty by other people.
For example, I dislike TWW for it's dungeon design. The layout and style of the dungeons are really bland and most of them have a generic "cave" theme with the same rock texture plastered all over the walls. The only notable exception is the Forsaken Fortress. TP and SS have really improved on this with cool ideas, such as a snow mansion, an ancient sky city,a mining facility, a ship sailing through sand, etc. It's something I didn't notice was missing when first playing the wind waker, but it's really annoying me when replaying it.
>>319750930
Well let's hope the dungeons are harder and the textures more varied
>>319749840
Me too. OP is a cocksucking faggot.
Also I just played through WWHD again a few weeks ago and it's a great game. NOT A SINGLE FLAW IN THAT GAME.
>>319751024
Oh. it's just you making the same TWW thread again.
>>319750930
If textures are so important to you how are you able to ignore the diarrhoea textures in TP
>>319751326
It's not about the quality of the textures, it's about the dungeon design. The overuse of the same texture is what makes the dungeons bland.
>>319749708
How people thought it was good in the first place is beyond me
>Literally just watching the color blue until you get to your destination, fish added to keep you awake
>"You know what would be fun sidequests? Watches characters walk slowly!"
>Treasure charts just contain rupees and the occasional heart piece. This is made pointless by the fact that there's an easy 100 rupee jar on Outset
>rupee grinding out the ass
>obviously rushed
>despite the game taking place on a fucking ocean not one faggot thought adding fishing was a good idea
>>319751326
>TWW IS PERFECT
>Not really, this thing is pretty bad
>BUT THIS GAME DID IT WORSE
>>319751534
>TWW IS PERFECT
did I say that?
>>319749708
I like WW, I can't think of a mainline Zelda game I dislike
>>319751570
Your argument is still shitty, no matter what your opening was.
>>319751650
I think you misunderstood what I said
>>319750880
>locked jumps, mostly linear story and dungeon progression, and forced cutscenes when you re-enter rooms.
Sorry, but these things aren't inherently bad.
Of course a long, pointless forced cutscene when you enter a room is bad.
Locked jumps with poor controls/hit detection are bad.
Linear stories are boring when they are overwrought, overlong and ultimately dull.
Forced dungeon progression is bad when they put a good dungeon at the start, one at the end and then just pad out the rest with repetitive, uninspired filler.
You might be able to (subjectively) say one or two of these things apply to Wind Waker, but unless you're just being antagonistic to stir up an already angry community you can't honestly say WW overdid these elements.
>>319750930
OP here. I started both games, but didn't get to finish them. TWW two years ago, and TWWHD one year ago. They're both low tier for very different reasons imo. While I hate the neon filter of TWW HD, I think I prefer the game to the original because I can't see myself going through that game again dealing with these same issues. At least TWWHD let's you skip the cutscenes. But my jimmy with that one is all the senseless editing...
•Moving the rupees from under the house for a heart piece. Why? It doesn't even make sense.
•Took Mrs. Marie's Sheikah trinket the Hero's Charm, which she had because of her Sheikah heritage (see, her cabanna basement, and her robe design) and moved it to Outset Island where everyone is going to get it as soon as they can lift big rocks. It's no longer a secret mask.
•forces you to save Tingle before you leave Windfall like you're some baby because maybe one person in the world got stuck after completing Tower of the Gods.
•removed some of the Triforce Charts because people complained. I'm nitpicking here, but the original game for NSTC had ALREADY been edited for shortness, so now we have a twice edited game, where you also have a Swift Sail specifically so you can travel faster.
•Oh, yeah, on that note "WHY DON'T WE EXTEND THE TIMER ON THE FOREST WATER FROM 20 MIN TO 30?"
•Took out Tingle Tuner, so no more Legend of the Fairy/island description lore. They had one job.
>>319750930
>>319752225
Yeah Im talking about the most left one. You can't even see if it's the Earth temple or a dark part of the Volcano.
>>319751814
You literally cannot traverse Forsaken Fortress without spending in some cases up to 20 seconds if I recall watching a cutscene everytime you pass through a door.
And the jump issue is the definition of what you described. Not being able to transfer momentum in a jump IS poor control design.
>>319752468
It's the Dragon Roost Cavern.
I'll try to make it easier for you.
One is a gravel cave. The other is a temple made of stone.
Or maybe everyone has always just had their own fucking opinion on the game?
Why does everything always have to be in a cluster of either "/v/ likes" or "/v/ hates"?
>>319749708
>Why has popular opinion for this game shifted so suddenly from favor to disfavor
>suddenly
TWW was always underwhelming, and I played it from its original release. Despite the new art style, it was a pretty bland game. Most of the things it tried had already been done and usually done better by OoT & MM already, and due to its rushed nature a lot of side content and even a part of the main quest came down to fetchquests. I guess after the disappointment of TP, which shares a lot of TWW's flaws, a lot of people saw more good things in it, but even then TP was better received and actually somewhat improved on WW's overall design.
The surge in TWW's popularity on this board in that last couple of years is because most people that are <20 years became old enough to post here and grew up with it. Ironically, nostalgia is usually used as an argument against the older games being seen as better than TWW, and it hasn't occured to them that it's more than a decade old already.
>>319749708
It was never that good
>>319750191
>It arguably the best 3D Zelda.
No it isnt
Since when? WW is top tier as fuck. Granted, modern Zelda isn't exactly difficult, but Wind Waker is a beautiful game. Easily top tier for that generation.
>>319754123
That realization when it dawns that the GCN/PS2/Xbox era was by far the worst console generation that has ever existed and that we got better games last-gen.
>>319754864
Yeah, sure man.
>>319749708
Because it was never a good game, and because the only reason it was popular was Gen Y children for whom it was their first Zelda game? Because Toon Link is the single most damaging thing that has ever happened to the franchise? Because it's just one big ugly ocean with copy pasted islands and a tiny handful of dungeons? Take your fucking pick.
>>319754123
>but Wind Waker is a beautiful game
If you can get past the god-awful art style and primitive cel shading, it's still not a good looking game, and it's certainly not "beautiful" in any metaphorical sense either.
At first people hated it for the art style.
Later they loved it for the art style.
But when you see past the art style you're left with the second weakest 3D Zelda game.
>>319755256
Yes it is. In HD it is pretty much the standard of cel-shading even today.
No other video game, heck, no CGI 3D show has come close to replicating TWW's living toon-style.
You are blind as a bat. The game is objectively speaking the best looking game to date in many artistic respects.
>>319749708
I don't know? I still like wind waker
>>319755256
I completely dissagree and go with the other end.
TWW was beautiful and had a great artsyle, but that was basically the only good thing about the game. The rest was pretty weak for a Zelda game.
>>319749708
Fucking Aussies, trying to start shit again.
I never played it and started emulating t a month ago. I really liked but completely lost interest halfway.
It happened mainly because other new games came out and I played those but I don't really feel like going back to WW. I had just done the deku tree dungeon and now I was back at the wind city at night to check on the pirates. These games start reaaally comfy but always lose a lot of appeal halfway through.
The Wind Waker gets a thumbs-up in my book because it gave us the best version of Ganondorf in ANY game he's ever played in... to say nothing of some music that's still iconically awesome to this day.
>>319749708
>TWW used to be up there with OoT, ALttP, and the other pre-2001 Zeldas. Now, it's barely above the low tier (PH, OoA, SS, ALBW, ST in that order).
According to who, exactly? The only floor I can think of off the top of my head is that damn triforce quest at the end.
>>319757801
>floor
Fuck me, I'm an idiot
>>319757868
I guess you meant flaw haha
I'm >>319757435
Should I continue or is there a severe decrease in said comfyness?
It's the zelda cycle
Replace skyward sword with zelda u, twilight princess with skyward sword, etc
>>319757972
>Should I continue or is there a severe decrease in said comfyness?
I don't quite remember how far you are into the game, but there's a really tedious quest at the end which is, in my opinion, the absolute worst section of any zelda game to date. So to answer your question, yes, keep playing but also be prepared for the slog at the end.
>>319749708
Choke on a dick faggot
>>319758267
I just 100%d JC3 so I guess I'll gicve this another try
I wouldn't say it's the best Zelda game, but it's my favourite for other reasons. I can see now that it's kinda light on content, but to this day the illusion of a massive world works for me and I like the artstyle, the characters, the items and so on.
I'd say it's better than TP. TP's artstyle was very inconsistent and the characters were completely forgettable save for the main cast (which were pretty good). The world was cool, but didn't resonate with me like the one's in the prior games. The dungeons and combat are the absolute high points of the game. Every other objective was very "quantity over quality".
Come to think of it, WW and TP are kinda like the opposites of each other, except that both are piss easy. In WW you want to beat that dungeon fast so you can go back to explore the overworld and get to know the characters. In TP you just want to get the overworld stuff over with so you can get to the action in the dungeons.
>>319758048
This. People still don't believe in the Zelda cycle.
>>319758414
How in god's name have you already 100%ed it? Didn't it only come out a couple of days ago?
>>319749708
I never thought WW was goat. I always thought TP was better. But you are right, there seems to have been a paradigm shift lately. Everyone used to suck WW's dick and shit on TP. I still think the art direction taken in WW completely fucked the Zelda franchise. sure the graphics are timeless, but it fucking babbified the game. every time i see toon link i rage, and i rage hard
>>319749708
I still like it.
>>319758562
10 days, actually.
>>319758641
Holy shit, you're right
>>319751479
>Literally just watching the color blue until you get to your destination, fish added to keep you awake
>despite the game taking place on a fucking ocean not one faggot thought adding fishing was a good idea
What really gets me is that, for a game themes around water, there's less you can do with it than any other game. You can't dive down or anything at all, its all just flat blue.
>>319749708
>Oy! Why has popular opinion for this game shifted so suddenly from favor to disfavor (including my own)?
Personally, I have always disliked it. I think the reason for the shift in most people is because of simple mass delusion and the standard, common defense mechanisms that torture most people. For example - Remember that shitty game Brawl? You know, that really slow paced, boring entry to the Smash series? Notice how nobody talks about it anymore, and nobody goes around saying it's the best game ever anymore. That's because one common delusion / defense mechanism, is to pretend that the newest entry to any given series is the best thing.
That game sucked dick. It was a big pile of shit. It was awful. But people pretended to like it because it was the newest thing. Now all of those people have moved on to saying Smash 4 is the best. Incidentally, they like a good game because of this - But for the wrong reasons; as they are not genuinely enjoying the game like I do, but rather only liking it because it's the newest one.
Anyway, my point is, the same thing relates to Zelda. People have various delusions and defense mechanisms that they use for different reasons when a new Zelda game comes out. Some people will reject the new one, thinking it will make them look old and wise and experienced. Some people will embrace the new one, thinking it will make them appear more liberal, hip, and progressive by pretending to like the new thing regardless of whether or not it's actually good. "I'm one of the cool kids! I like the new thing! I'm not one of these bitter old straight cis-gendered white men who prefers the older, but genuinely better thing!"
>>319759039
And the Zelda cycle? Yeah. It's fucking real. There is no denying that some people do exactly what is described in the Zelda cycle. They reject the new game by default, thinking it makes them look very advanced and refined, but over time they realize it might actually be a good game; once they settle down a bit and don't need the defense mechanism anymore. The only people who deny the Zelda cycle are the ones who are the victim of this common delusion. Nobody else would feel the need to deny that some people do indeed do this. If you deny that anybody does it, clearly it's because you personally do it, and you're mad that people know about your mentality and were able to call you out on it and describe it so perfectly.
Why don't you guys just fucking be honest and base a game on its merits instead of trying to make yourself look cool? Fucking fags. I can't imagine playing a game or alternatively depriving myself of a quality gaming experience because I'm concerned about my self-image. That's really what it's all about for most of you. I like video games.
>>319749708
>Nintendo sucked during the GCN era except for Double Dash
Fuck off with your shitty blogpost.
>>319755184
WW legitimately has its merits, but it really was the turning point for the whole series from something legendary to this quirky Nintendo thing that IDKWTF is going on with. The game obnoxiously forces its gimmicky shit on you like you wouldn't believe and that's become the series' standard. Now there's no longer the prestige that a new Zelda release once brought, when it used to be that it made Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls bow their heads in shame.
>>319758939
>Pirate Towers
>Submarines
>Giant Octopuses
>Sunken Treasures
>Treasure Islands
>Autistic Divers
>Retarded Tornado Frog
You can encounter a lot of shit when sailing you know.
>>319749708
Don't know, still the best zelda, no other game had that sense of adventure to me
>>319759039
>But for the wrong reasons; as they are not genuinely enjoying the game like I do, but rather only liking it because it's the newest one.
I've always noticed a trend of autism among people who dislike Wind Waker, but this one really takes the cake.
>>319759279
>when it used to be that it made Final Fantasy and Elder Scrolls bow their heads in shame.
That's Nintendo's fault for refusing to keep up with the industry.
>>319757972
>Should I continue or is there a severe decrease in said comfyness?
You should be at the point where the game actually gets much better.The Triforce hunt later on is is one of the most over criticised parts of any Zelda, the whole point is that you get an excuse to travel around the map to explore random islands, which isn't that great, but is no where near as bad as most people say it is.
>>319759303
To these types Wind Waker will always be just "lel, blue", you can't turn their heads.
>>319759303
You encounter way more shit in the overworld in every other game, most of that is just randomly scattered around the sea. And I'm talking about game mechanics anyway, OoT and MM gave you the freedom to dive down and explore under the water, which WW took away.
>>319759379
So nobody does that? Nobody just pretends to like a game because it's the new one?Because you do. Why else would you be denying it? You literally just proved my point.
WW and MM are the only good 3D Zelda for their atmosphere honestly
2D Zelda in general is superior
>>319760285
That is so backwards its not funny. LA is the only 2D Zelda with great atmosphere, and OoT rapes every other game in existence in this regard.
>>319760432
2D Zelda has actually fun gameplay, unlike 3D Zelda
>>319749708
Depending on what enjoyment you get from videogames it's one of the best or worst 3d zeldas.
If you judge it based on "comfiness" or "hours per $" it's pretty good.
If you judge it based on world design or dungeon design or story or combat or pacing or basically anything related to game design sans the music, it's pretty awful.
>>319760568
2D Zelda has a handful of games with actually decent enemies, that I can certainly give it praise for. 2D fags tend to greatly underplay how much shit the 3D games have going on in them though, the 2D games don't match their intricacy.
>>319752193
>so now we have a twice edited game, where you also have a Swift Sail specifically so you can travel faster.
On that note, the Swift Sail also makes the monsters in the sea utterly pointless since their speed is scaled towards the standard sail. You can out-run every Seahat and Gyorg you see.
Leave it to Aonuma to find a way to remove monster fighting a little more in a Zelda game.
>>319758048
>>319758520
But Zelda U isn't even out yet, so how can the cycle be real?
The hoops people jump through to defend their fictitious "Zelda Cycle" is amazing.
>"The Zelda Cycle is real!"
>Link Between Worlds is met with universal adoration on release and slowly gets critiqued MORE as time goes by, the exact opposite of the supposed "Zelda Cycle"
>"H-handheld games don't count!"
>>319758520
I'm hoping SS was so bad that it breaks the cycle. It can never reach the 3rd part of the cycle, can it? If anyone portrays it as the best they're just wrong. But what do I know I will probably still keep MM as my favorite
>>319763356
>Don't you rike cuttingu grass?
