>Metroid games with Ice Beam
>Metroid
>Metroid 2
>Super Metroid
>Zero Mission
>Fusion
>Metroid Prime
>Other M
>Metroid games with Plasma beam
>Zero Mission
>Metroid 2
>Super Metroid
>Other M
>Fushion
>Prime 1
>Prime 3
>Metroid games with flamethrower
>Metroid Prime
>samus primarily uses fire attacks in smash bros
I sure am glad smash bros is such a faithful representation of nintendo series.
>>319591024
Smash 64 didn't really get crazy with most of the characters movesets since it was their first attempt at that style of gameplay. Mario, DK, Link had really basic movesets too.
They just never bothered to update her like they did with Mario and Link in later games, which is a shame.
>>319591024
Blame Smash 64. She hadn't had a game since Super at the time. Melee was the same case, and the disconnect only got worse, by the time Brawl came around she had Ganondorf syndrome- her moveset didn't represent her well, but it had become iconic to her Smash incarnation, so they're loath to change it.
>>319592267
>She hadn't had a game since Super at the time.
that's 3/3 games with the ice beam and 2/3 games with the plasma bean.
there were only 3 metroid games at the time of smash 64
>>319592407
Sakurai probably hadn't even played a single Metroid game.
Probably thought she was a robot.
>>319591024
>samus primarily uses fire attacks in smash bros
She has like 2 fire moves.
>>319592910
d-tilt
up-smash
f-air
f-smash
>>319593031
Dtilt and Fsmash are little explosions, not a flamethrower.
Missles aren't fire attacks are they?
>>>319591024
>Sakurai
>Not making shit up
Remember when Peach could magically put everyone to sleep? Neither do I.
So? Pacman attacks using his enemies. That's like Mario attacking with goombas.
Also, Lucas and Ness use moves they never learn.
Also, Luigi never pokes things with his fingers or spins in a cyclone.
Dedede never actually throws gordos.
Pit can't actually use his wings without help from someone/thing else. If he has the power of flight, he could fly for 5 whole minutes, not 5 whole jumps. Dark Pit can fly forever.
Toad never spits out spores when he's hit.
Peach never used a frying pan and her butt never exploded.
NES/Wii Little Mac never had a KO meter.
Want me to keep going?
>>319593435
are you implying that makes any of those ok?
>>319592058
>>319592267
Also, Why does Power Suit Samus play like such a hunk of scrap metal? In Zero mission, Samus was just as agile as ZSS with the only difference being Samus being armed to the teeth.
Isn't the whole point of the Power Armor to have a wide and varied arsenal without compromising agility? She can switch Beams, Bombs, and Missiles almost automatically!
Where's the Speed Booster? Where's the Spazer beam? Wave Beam? Ice Beam? Plasma Beam? Where's the Power Bomb?
Why doesn't she jump like Kirby and DDD due to her Space Jump Ability?
WHERE IS IT????
>>319593632
They are okay.
You have to remember that this is the game where Samus has MORE movement/attack options without her suit.
>>319593660
beat me to it as I was typing
>>319593435
>Peach never used a frying pan
It's her best weapon in Super Mario RPG.
You know how when you cut down a tree, you can see its age through the rings on its stump? You can sort of do that with Smash.
Looking at Sm4sh's roster, it's interesting how many of the older characters are a lot more simple and basic compared to the more complex ones from Brawl and Smash 4. It kind of shows how Sakurai's character design evolved over the years. Now we have characters like Little Mac, Cloud, Mega Man and Ryu with crazy unique playstyles and mechanics that feel taken right from their respective games. The downside is that it makes some of the veteran characters like Samus feel outdated and quaint in comparison.
>>319593435
Everyone knows Sakurai's a hack but OP clearly wanted to talk about Samus. Also keep in mind some characters have much less to their character or attack potential than others, like Peach for instance, and some new stuff needs to be created to fill the gap whereas Samus has no shortage of shit to use.
>>319591024
could samus beat iron man
>>319594095
Depends what suit Iron Man uses.
Like every other superhero Iron Man gets fucking ridiculous in certain runs and events.
Its like asking if Goku could beat Superman without specifying which Superman. The difference between his power set in the silver age and at the start of New 52 is insane.
I'll tell you what I want.
I either want Sakurai to be replaced as Director, or add at least 1-2 more Directors to work alongside him. Having control of all these franchises is just too much of a task for 1 man, and it's been very clear seeing how some franchises are given the shaft.
Sakurai does his best to appear "unbiased" but it's bullshit. His creations always get top billing when it comes to Dev. time.
It pisses me off how subtle he tries to be about it. In an interview he said that the reason Dark Pit was a Alt. character rather than a Recolor was because it wouldn't make sense for Dark Pit to use Pit's moves. Fucking really?
Here we have characters like Ganondorf and Samus that have very little inspiration in their movesets, but we have time to give Palutena 6+ Custom Moves?
Come the fuck on.
>>319594414
>His creations always get top billing when it comes to Dev. time.
Like "mediocre as hell" Palutena or "outclassed in every way that nobody plays him" Pit?
How about "middle of the road" Kirby.
>>319594414
>but we have time to give Palutena 6+ Custom Moves
Weren't all of those ripped from Smash Run powers?
>>319594312
Okay. The most recognizable is MCU Iron Man and the most OP form might be Extremis or his Uru suit or something unless I'm forgetting a more stupid and ridiculous one.
Could Samus beat the Mk 7 Armor? It's the suit he uses in the Avengers iirc. If it's not a close match, how about if Tony has Rhodey for black up?
>>319594632
No. They're based on the powers Pit can equip in Kid Icarus Uprising. The powers in Smash Run also happen to be based on them.
Even still, Palutena's customs work much differently then the ones in Smash Run. Her Heavenly Light doesn't function like the ability in SR at all, for example.
>>319594414
>>319594414
But he made palutena shit by giving her ridiculously good customs and making her defaults complete and utter ass
>>319594595
>>319594632
Here comes the Sakurai defense force! Their leader can do no wrong!
Just because the characters aren't "top tier", it doesn't mean there isn't an obvious preference. You'd have to be blind, and retarded not to see it. Example: How about Meta Knight being the best character in brawl? even getting his own Victory song before characters like Bowser? How many Bowser Castle stages are there Anon? Meta-Knight has his own stage!
>But it's a kirby level!!
Yes, used for Meta-Knight. It's Meta Knights stage.
>>319594936
The balance of Sakurai's characters have been all over the place, when you think about it. They're not all OP but they're also not all UP.
I mean, Kirby was overtuned in 64, but was worthless in Melee but is meh in Brawl and Smash 4. Dedede was an annoying janky gatekeeper character in Brawl but is considered pretty bad in Smash 4. Meta Knight in Brawl was just, yeah, but in Smash 4 he's really good without being OP. Pit and Dark Pit are good, but nothing special and Palutena is only good with customs on, but she still isn't super top tier.
>>319595205
Don't forget how Kirby has to have his copy ability! For every single character!
WE CAN'T COMPROMISE THE INTEGRITY OF THE CHARACTERS! WE HAVE TO GET THEM RIGHT! THAT'S THE SAKURAI PROMISE!
>Ganondorf is a pseudo clone for 3 FUCKING GAMES IN A ROW
THE SAKURAI PROMISE!!!!
![samus_morph_ball_2_by_frettsurfer38-d5buyk2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MpGZPpG.jpg "samus_morph_ball_2_by_frettsurfer38-d5buyk2[1].jpg")
Changes that would make Samus more faithful to the original
>3 movement states - walking - running - speed boosting
>Speed Booster makes her run as fast as Sonic
>Jumping out of Speed Booster gives you a Falco-tier first jump, which hurts people on the ascent
>Screw attack changed to be more like it is in the games, with you being able to continuously do it if you're skilled, but doesn't give Samus as much height unless used for a while
>Forward aerial changed to Super Missile
>Neutral aerial changed to Homing Missile
>Forward special changed to something to fit in
Optional:
>Neutral B changed to be a cross between Shulk's Monado and the current charge beam
>Lightly tapping B will switch beam types, from Power - Wave - Ice - Plasma/Spazer
>Holding down the button will let you charge the beam
>Power Beam is same as ever, but charges the fastest
>Wave Beam does not stop until it reaches the blast zone. Not even the stage can stop it. Deals ~75% damage of the Charge Beam
>Ice Beam deals around half damage of the Charge Beam, but freezes the targets hit right where they are, scaling with their damage taken. Missiles deal double damage to frozen targets
>Plasma Beam deals 1.25x the damage of the Charge Beam, but the projectile is far smaller, and travels barely the distance of Final Destination before dropping off.
>Down-B doesn't just lay a bomb, it turns Samus into her Morph Ball, and Up-B would change her back
>Neutral-B as Morph Ball is the bomb, which is changed to allow infinite Bomb Jumps like in Prime or Super
>Side-B as Morph Ball is the Boost Ball. You slope upwards like on a Prime halfpipe if you hit an enemy
>Down-B is the Power Bomb, which takes a long time to detonate, but deals roughly 20% damage to enemies caught in the blast. Maybe deals half damage to Samus herself, for balance reasons
>You get one jump in the Morph Ball form
>You can't do any tilts, aerials, or etc in the Morph Ball, just use specials and jump.
>>319593267
Yeah, most people here don't remember Super Mario RPG
Fucking newfags.
>No Geno
>No Alex Roivas
>Saki is still an AT
>No Issac.
Why do people like Hackurai again?
>>319595661
>can only use missiles in the air
No thanks. The system we have is good already.
Digging the morph ball stuff, though.
>>319595951
>muh obscure garbage characters
>>319593794
>Cloud
He could be a semi-clone of Marth for all we know.
>>319596150
You mean Ike?
>>319596150
We basically know how his moveset works from the trailer and he's not.
You charge up a limit break meter that alters and powers up his special attacks.
>>319595951
>Alex Roivas
who?
>>319596150
I remember when Marth had a limit break mechanic that lets him activate EX version of his specials. Or fight with a giant buster sword.
>>319595951
I really don't get the specific focus on Geno. Why not Mallow? Or Fawful? Or any of the millions of decent characters that appeared in the Mario RPGs?
>>319596337
It's Awakening DLC
>>319596297
>>319593435
>Pacman
There was pretty much no other feasible way of implementing him
>Lucas and Ness
No, but Paula and Kumatora can. No one would want to play Ness if he only used his Yo-yo and bat, and Lucas was designed around Ness.
>Luigi
RPG games. All they would have to do is make his physical attacks create a lightning effect, and it would be directly referenced
>Dedede
Gordos are some of his minions. He used to have Waddle Dee's and Doo's to throw, since he actually does throw minions in other Kirby games (like 64, with the Waddle Dee helper).
>Pit
Should operate like Little Mac. Would've made a world of difference and actually justify Dark Pit
>Dark Pit
Kirby and D3 can fly forever too, and Falco is a bird. Flying is limited for balance reasons
>Toad
He didn't really do much before recently, and he's seen as a Peach's little helper thing
>Peach
Play SMRPG you stupid fucks
>KO meter
No, but it's the only way to make the KO mechanic from Punch Out work.
1/10, apply yourself. At least point out some actual problems, like Wario or Samus.
>>319596421
so literally nobody important or memorable
>>319594312
>>319594685
>>319594095
I'm pretty sure Samus would still win. She can wade through lava for hours with a lava suit, and Screw Attack would make mince meat out of the Iron Man suits. The only real disadvantage is if they fight in a city, where Samus wouldn't realistically be able to catch Iron Man if he decided to fly.
>>319596690
Nah, Samus would get knocked into a wall and lose all her powers.
>>319596690
I don't understand why they need to be in a city for Iron Man to fly away
>>319594685
Ridley or pretty much any other Metroid boss would shit on MCU Iron Man. Samus herself would destroy him. In Iron Man's own films, he struggles against human sized enemies in suits or with some sort of single power, whereas Samus regularly topples far more powerful foes in greater number.
>>319596429
The KO punch couldve worked like Jigglypuff's Rest, having devastating power if used at just the right time at just the right opening but leaving you very vulnerable if you missed.
>>319595584
>>319595205
Stop sperging out over non-shit, you retards. Are you upset that Peach has several stages all to herself, meanwhile Kirby stages are usually shit/forgotten?
In Smash 4, Kirby had 1 new stage, and 1 returning stage, meanwhile there was the exact same amount of Mario Kart stages.
>>319596429
>There was pretty much no other feasible way of implementing him
They could have resorted to his Pac-World moveset that's utterly generic, but it's obvious why they didn't keep any of that.
>>319591024
I was so disappointed when I unlocked her custom moves in Smash 4.
I expected her items from the actual Metroid games, instead of that, I got a lot of bullshit.
Seriously, no Ice Beam? No Plasma Beam? Not even an Ice Missile or something? No Power Bomb? No Space Jump?
I mean, that shit was obvious as hell and somehow Sakurai decided NOT to do that shit. Dafuq?
>>319593794
Yeah, this is definitely true. Plus, now that the team knows what they're doing, newer characters have movesets that gel together more cohesively. Compare this to Kirby or Samus, who have a bunch of random, fragmented tools.
>>319596857
It literally works exactly like that, though. The KO punch has a shitload of cool down on it.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Little%20Mac
>FAF: 97
>>319596842
What if Samus had to fight Extremis (comics, not IM3) Iron Man?
>>319596809
>Underwater
Samus can catch him because of infinite water "flight" with gravity suit
>Cave
No way to fly away
>Grass plains/desert/tundra
Why the fuck would they be there?
>Forest
Samus can climb trees and wall jump ez.
>>319596421
>another blond with a gun
>>319593660
>>319593794
Yeah seriously.
I'm still waiting for them to completely overhaul Samus' moveset so that she actually fights the way she does in her games.
Mii Gunner is almost a better Samus than Samus. How fucking pathetic is that?
>>319596034
Morph Ball change would pretty much be all that needs to happen to appease me, but I would've liked a system that involves changing beam types too. The missile system would've also made her better at ledge trapping, but that's probably just me thinking to competitively about it.
>>319597078
well kirby is basically in the same seat as mega man. Just using a hodgepodge of the different enemy powers he gets.
Only difference is Kirby also has basic kicks.
>Still no acknowlegement by Nintendo.
>>319596429
>All they would have to do is make his physical attacks create a lightning effect, and it would be directly referenced
I've always wanted Nintendo to make that Luigi's 'thing'. Never saw why they didn't, it was so cool in M&L:SSS.
>Should operate like Little Mac. Would've made a world of difference and actually justify Dark Pit
That's actually not a bad idea. Another idea I had was making one of them ranged-focused, and another one more focused on melee.
>>319596991
Pretty much. It wouldn't have fit in with the new character design style. He would've played like a Smash 64 character, which would be awfully weird.
>>319596940
Don't bring Mario into this. He's the A-Lister, also what fucking stages does she have? As far as I'm concerned, the only way Peach can have a "Peach" stage would be from Super Princess Peach, or inside Bowser's Sex Dungeon where she is all the fucking time.
>>319595661
You. Are. My. Nigga.
Unfortunately I could see this probably never happening.
>>319597502
>Another idea I had was making one of them ranged-focused, and another one more focused on melee.
Funny thing is, that literally is the difference between the Palutena Bow and the Silver Bow.
Their neutral Bs are the total opposite of what would fit best.
>>319597502
>Pit
>2 jumps
>Both pitiful
>Shitty recovery
>Works like a longer ranged Little Mac, using the bow, and maybe the other longer ranged weapons instead of Orbiters and Arms
>Dark Pit
>5 jumps
>Great recovery
>Only ranged attack is his staff, the rest of his moveset requires approaching really close
That would've been neat, in my opinion. I would've actually liked Dark Pit's inclusion then. If they just did the jump changes, I think I would've been fine, too.
>>319597478
The main thing that kills his chances of being in Smash is that his games were never released in Japan. Unlike say, Kid Icarus Of Myths and Monsters, it couldn't even find salvation on their Wii/Wii U Virtual Console.
>>319597478
Who? The Elevator Action guy?
Is there anything better than Metroidfags getting BTFO?
After Metroid: Federation Force, Sakurai needs to step his game up IMO.
>>319597612
Her fucking castle, you cunt. That's also probably why there isn't ever a Bowser Castle stage, since there would be 2 Mario character castle stages, which would be completely redundant.
>>319597954
It is rather tiresome watching them whine that Super Smash Bros isn't Super Samus Bros starring SSS Tier Samus Aran and the Primeketeers.
>>319591024
I always thought the little explosions were actually prematurely-detonated missilesOr it could be because it's just a fucking video game
>>319591024
Play project M. Has Ice attacks with the added bonus of samus not being garbage.
>>319597826
>>319596429
The idea of Pit working like Little Mac would be really odd because of his series' origins as a platforming type of game.
Despite the Uprising references in his moves I kinda like that he still has some elements based on the original game, like his jerky animation when using a hammer.
>>319597112
>why would they be in a desert
nigger, why would they be underwater?
>>319598051
Just because it's Peach's Castle, doesn't make it a Peach stage fuck nugget! It's a stage for Mario! You don't look at the castle and think "Oh yeah, Peach!" NO! You think "Oh yeah, Super Mario 64!"
>>319597478
I think he's pretty much got the spot in Smash 5/6, whatever they decide to call it. What else do they have?
>Inklings
>A 4th Kirby character (Adeleine? Waddle Dee? Dark Matter? Magalor?)
>Dixie/Cranky Kong
>Other obscure titles, like Captain Rainbow
It's either him, or they start busting out the 3rd parties, like Banjo, Simon Belmont, and Bomberman.
>>319598331
>You don't look at the castle and think "Oh yeah, Peach!" NO! You think "Oh yeah, Super Mario 64!"
Peach is on the front of the castle you biscuit head
>>319597658
Eh, I could see the Morph Ball change happening in the next Smash game, if nothing else. It would add a lot to her playstyle with only adding in essentially 2 new moves.
>>319598337
>Implying Hackurai won't just fill the roster with Kid Icarus characters.
>>319598309Because some fanfiction writers ship them?
>Samus
>Female Bounty Hunter that explores the universe in her iconic power armour kicking ass and taking names using all kinds of awesome guns and bombs and shit
>Not feminist, not anti-feminist, not sjw, not anti-sjw, just all around amazing character design and setting design
>Probably most abused and under used franchise belonging to nintendo
>Stays consistently trash in smash bros
>mfw
>>319598673
>Stays consistently trash in smash bros
she was decent in melee, at the very least.
if you want consistent trash, look at zelda
>>319598673
>Probably most abused and under used franchise belonging to nintendo
Metroidfags everyone
>>319597803
Pit has the Palutena Bow and Dark Pit, the Silver Bow right?
>>319597826
Alright, so...how about this?
>Pit
>standard 2 jumps
>nerfed up-B recovery
>side-B given the trajectory of Dark Pit's side-B in Smash 4
>but down-B changed to the Black Club, which is slow but does monster damage, plus knockback
>also buffed melee in general
>Dark Pit
>4 jumps
>side-B replaced with Eyetrack Orbitars, more of a homing shot that do pretty good damage, with KO potential
>nerfed melee in general
Eh?
>>319597826
>Both PITiful
>>319598673
She has an equal matchup with Fox and Falco in melee.
Prime games fucked a bunch of things up, including the beams and power ups.
>>319598980
>Pit has the Palutena Bow and Dark Pit, the Silver Bow right?
yep.
>>319598570
They could very well add in a 4th KI character, since there's a lot to work with. I just don't see any other series getting new reps. Look at what they have already
>Mario has only random enemies, Waluigi, and Daisy left
>Wario doesn't have anyone getting in because they're not well known enough, and Sakurai will put them in Assist Trophy jail
>Metroid doesn't have anyone left without resorting to bosses/Hunters
>Zelda is pretty exhausted without pulling out Tingle or random shit like Impa, Saria, Ruto, or Medliactually, Medli might be cool as a Wind Waker series rep if they removed Tink
>Fire Emblem already has enough sword-fighting Lords, and they're the only ones who are known, besides maybe NEVER EVErphraim
>Pokemon is running out of reppable 'mons without going back to the Pokemon Trainer style of trainer, or pulling out more modern "Jigglypuff" kind of 'mons
>Yoshi series doesn't have shit for characters, except for Poochy
>Star Fox's list hinges on whether Wolf gets in the next game or not
>
>
>
I mean, if they renewed the licence on Mega Man, they could get Proto Man or Bass or something. Maybe Dr. Wily or Eggman could get in if Sega/Capcom are nice?
>>319598896
He's right though.
>only two reps 4 games in
>Samus Aran herself consistently low-tier
>anime bimbo given all the attention since she's high-tier as fuck in Smash 4
>always manages to get underwhelming as fuck stages somehow despite Metroid environments seemingly making for great Smash stages
>stage in Brawl based off of, of all things, the very first boss in the game, even though there were tons of potential for other great stages throughout the series (shit, they could've just set it on the outside of the Frigate Orpheon, which would've been cooler)
>Samus herself gets underwhelming as fuck customs in Smash 4
About the only respect Sakurai has given her and the series in general I guess, has been making ZSS top-tier and giving Samus some of the best alt colors in the game.
>>319591024
I know OP. I am also glad that there are no characters on the roster who are capable of flight in their original games. If they were to be in Smash they'd be so very very mega ultra OP and bad for the funs you know? It is very good Sakurai does not spout shit, but in fact is very strict on everything for Smash. Praise Sakurai for being so faithful to these franchises and Samus especially. The man can do no wrong. I hope nobody is mean to him and calls him out on totally made up poopies, because that would be bad and not so nice.
>>319592267
I am so very glad Sakurai sticks to his guns and refuses to change characters. Mario for instance has all the exact same moves he had in Smash 64. Such a great man Sakurai is. Thank you for giving us this glorious man, Iwata, may you rest in piece.
>>319598980
Yeah, I suppose that would work. I was thinking that Pit would be the ranged counterpart to Little Mac in a way, and Dark Pit would be the fragile one.
>Dark Pit now as light as Duck Hunt
>Pit now as heavy as Samus
>Pit has shit for jumps
>Dark Pit is extremely hard to gimp
>>319599309
>Metroid doesn't have anyone left without resorting to other potential characters
>>319599513
>Samus herself gets underwhelming as fuck customs in Smash 4
In all fairness, the majority of custom specials are underwhelming as fuck outside of Mega Man's and Palutena's. Mii Fighters too I guess.
>>319598673
Abused? I don't know about that. That's Mario and all his spin offs. He can't catch a break.
Under used? Come on. Yes, the game was absent in the N64 era, but it was still present in the portable systems. The game has a trilogy spanning 2 consoles, and each system had 2 games.
>>319599645
There aren't any other characters though, just boss monsters and the Hunters.
And really, the Hunters are on "Goomba in a hat" tier.
>>319599513
Oh you meant specifically in smash, not Nintendo as a whole.
Because Metroid had a damn good run in the 5th and 6th gens, other M withstanding.
>>319592762
He still hasn't ever played a goddamn Metroid game. Yeah yeah Ridley Boogieman, but just look at the platypus clone boss thing in Smash 4. Not a damn thing it does is anything like Ridley. Sakurai stated all Ridley does is fly when he fights mostly on the ground in the 3D games. He's all sorts of retarded when it comes to Metroid in general and I'd love it if someone with half a brain took over Smash and gave it just at the very least a tiny bit of respect.
>>319599554
>Mario for instance has all the exact same moves he had in Smash 64.
Am I the only one that doesn't mind Mario the way he is?
Like, yes, his design is "boring", but that's kind of the whole point of him: he's supposed to be that basic, easy to get into beginner character. He's Smash's Ryubefore they added Ryu.
And honestly when they did change Mario in Brawl I felt like it was for the worst. FLUDD isn't as bad as it was in Brawl but it just feels out of place. You have a character with a simple projectile, a simple uppercut, a simple reflector and then for his down special he has an extremely obtuse and weird move.
>>319599309
>>Mario has only random enemies, Waluigi, and Daisy left
Toad/Captain Toad? Kamek? There's still the Mario RPGs.
>>Wario doesn't have anyone getting in because they're not well known enough, and Sakurai will put them in Assist Trophy jail
Meh. Captain Syrup COULD work but he'd never do it.
>>Metroid doesn't have anyone left without resorting to bosses/Hunters
And Sakurai SHOULD give us Dark Samus, Ridley, and/or Sylux
>>Zelda is pretty exhausted without pulling out Tingle or random shit like Impa, Saria, Ruto, or Medli
Impa would be "random shit"? Also, Pig Ganon? Toon Ganondorf?Linkle?
>>Fire Emblem already has enough sword-fighting Lords, and they're the only ones who are known, besides maybe NEVER EVErphraim
I do hope we get some FE characters that aren't swordsman, for a change.
As for more KI characters, I'd be down with it, if it meant that they didn't take the place of characters I'd want more.
Also, you're forgetting other Nintendo characters that could get in. Advance Wars rep? Another Xenoblade Chronicles rep? Inkling? F-Zero? Wonder Red?
>>319599734
So they should remove Bowser? Ganondorf? Bowser Jr.? Mewtwo? Wario? Don't be stupid. Ridley would work fine but everyone memes the shit out of keeping him out because it's better to defend Sakurai than to call him out on anything.
>>319599734
The Hunters are Koopalings tier with Sylux and Weavel being the highlights, Rundas is a fan favorite with some character, given his short existence, and of course there's Ridley and Dark Samus.
>>319600087
Ridley's not a character.
>>319591024
'Dying when it dips below zero' is really a pretty massive evolutionary flaw if you think about it.
Is there a franchise in more dire need of a reboot than Metroid? The lore is all kinds of fucked, and I think starting over and re-introducing this world and Samus could really catapult Metroid as a whole.
>>319600080
>I do hope we get some FE characters that aren't swordsman, for a change.
you know that'll never happen.
>>319599586
That..that could also work.
>>319599676
Ganondorf? Ness?
You're kinda right, in that they are super underwhelming in general. They honestly should've either gone hard with them, or not even have bothered.
>>319599801
I think you mean just the sixth gen, maybe the seventh too.
Metroid skipped the fifth gen dude.
>>319600342
yeah I got my gens mixed up.
>>319600193
Duck Hunt Dog is? Game and Watch is? You're making up excuses dumber than Sakurai now.
>>319600342
I said "majority". There are a handful of customs that actually are somewhat based on something. Bowser's Fireshot custom lets him shoot out fireballs like in 2D Mario games, for example.
>>319595804
This guy knows what's up.
>>319600517
That really should be the default
>>319600517
>Not a long oval fireball.
Can Sakurai get anything right?
>>319600583
Its actually worse. Way too laggy. Default is good for shield pressure now.
![duck-hunt-dog[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uedmxtx.jpg "duck-hunt-dog[1].jpg")
>>319600456
Yes, they are. Duck Hunt's character is the reason he's been so iconic for over 30 years.
Ridley is a mindless animal that never conveys any sort of personality or communication towards anything, and just slashes and breathes fire. He's a generic boss monster Samus blows up before getting to the real final boss of the game.
>Muh lore!
Show, don't tell.
>>319600517
True. Reading comprehension.
Some people said that custom moves were chosen more so on gameplay potential, but it's not like they couldn't base them on shit that you could do from the games without them being useful either.
>>319599972
I think they should have given him the Luma spin. 1 spin, with decent damage, short range but good knockback. It could also give him a bit of air like his cape.
Replace his down air with his SMW spin, but actually make it like in the game. Spin around a few times and be able to bounce around enemies if you land on them, kinda like Greninjas D-Air.
>>319600639
depends on what game you're looking at
>>319600674
I'm not even considering how good the move is.
Bowser's more known for shooting fireballs than breathing streams of fire.
He does both, yeah, but fireballs are more iconic.
Plus, Charizard's got the same move. It'd be nice to remove the one thing they share.
>>319597391
It's about how much of the moveset is taken from their games vs. how much is a more generic "fighting" moveset. Almost all of Kirby's normals are kicks. His specials are his inhale, cutter, hammer, and stone, his throws are obviously throw/suplex attacks, dash is yo-yo (burning in melee), but his normals are mostly generics, with a few taking inspiration from fighter.
Literally every attack Mega Man does is from a game. Only one of his attacks isn't from a Mega Man game, his uptilt, and that's from his MvC moveset. The only area where you could say Mega Man's moveset is "lacking" with regards to referencing his games, are shooting pellets out of his buster being three of his moves, rather than having two more robot master powers, and even that serves the purpose of allowing him to play like he does in his games, shooting standing still, walking, or jumping.
>No Sin and Punishment characters.
>>319600815
They probably didn't give him any Galaxy references in his moveset because they already had Rosalina & Luma for that.
Now that I think about it I'm surprised she doesn't have the spin attack either, considering it's her trademark attack in 3D world.
>>319599857
That fucked up Ridley is taken directly from Other M, so I wouldn't blame Sakurai for it. Bigger damning evidence is that as of Brawl, 4 out of the 5 Metroid stages were taken from the first game. Zebes, Brinstar, Lower Brinstar, and Norfair.
>but Super
Super's version of Brinstar was half forest/ half muddy soil, not a rocky terrain with the NES theme and huge focus on acid. Kraid's liar isn't in Super, and Norfair's aesthetic and music is from Zero Mission. Frigate Orpheon has very little to with the location aside from the Parasite Queen chilling in the back. Fuck, even Pyrosphere is an enclosed space with lava/acid in the background like most Metroid stages.
Sakurai doesn't seem to know anything about any series except his own.
>>319600731
They've showed Ridleys character plenty of times. It's unimportant since things like Ice Climbers and other non-character characters have been in. It's not even Ridley I'm getting on this over either, though he's a part of it. It's any character that Sakurai makes up excuses for. It's retarded. He did that shit with Villager back during Brawl. It was dumb then as proven by Smash 4. If you're going to make up random excuses that are centered only one specific characters than you might as well say nothing interesting will ever be added to the roster. You can't do this because reason, you can't do that because of that one minor detail that a simple tweak could alleviate, etc. It's dumb especially in the confines of a non-canon beat 'em up party game.
>>319601002
It's too late.
Unless S&P3 ever gets made, there's no way Saki Amamiya or Isa Jo will EVER be playable in Smash. I mean, remember when Sakurai straight up admitted Saki in Brawl almost could've been a playable fighter? Yeah.
>>319601181
Actually I just realized how fucked up it is that S&P gets no characters while KI gets 3, considering the fact that KI:U was directly inspired by S&P and all.
POST METROIDS
>>319598337
They'll really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel in the next game, but trust me, Mike Jones is underneath the entire barrel. There are tons of obscure nobodies they'd pick over him.
>>319601162
Nothing wrong with his view on the Villager in Brawl
>These characters are completely non-violent in every sense of the term. Them fighting really doesn't make much sense, does it?
>>319601041
They should have done it anyway. The game is pretty much Mario Galaxy: The Wankfest anyway. If they wanna throw in a Sunshine move, use it on his Recovery. I always thought his Up-Special was redundant. Either give him the rocket pump, or the hover pump.
>>319592058
>They just never bothered to update her like they did with Mario and Link
>Mario gets FLUDD
>Link gets a slight gust with boomerang
Those weren't really much of an update, anon.
>>319599712
Has had a total of 4 home console games since video games became 3D. And one of them was an absolute cancerous black mark on the franchise
Something like 3 handheld games ever? Cant think of any other than Fusion, Hunters and Zero Mission
>>319601145
I really hate how /v/ is convinced that because like one or two or three characters aren't exactly up to snuff it means that Sakurai is completely clueless when it comes to Nintendo series and building together movesets.
He does do proper justice to the majority of the characters in Smash and that especially goes to show with Sm4sh's newcomer lineup. I don't know how anyone could look at Mega Man and say "yep, sakurai don't know shit that ain't kirby or ki" or whatever the fuck.
>>319599734
>Goomba in a hat tier
They were greatly designed humanoid characters with their own unique powers and backstories
And they got to appear in one game. Shits not right.
>>319600153
Hunters only appeared in one game, on that wasn't really well received, and very few people played it.
Dark Samus probably wouldn't work, either. It'll remain a costume for Samus, though.
>>319601605
Nigga, if anything it shows how misguided he can be. Pay full honors to a 3rd party character, but neglect your home properties? Fuck that.
>>319600342
>They honestly should've either gone hard with them, or not even have bothered.
They could have managed to both try harder and half ass it even more by reducing the number of customs and making each custom more unique. Like, one additional custom move for every special, that's it. The design can be tighter, you can balance them better, you have less characters sharing the same types of attacks with the same new properties, and you can pull from the games without having to go too nuts.
>>319601532
Well windboxes got buffed in 4, so it's something. It just took an extra game to be significant
>>319601730
Dark's Samus AT proves it could work. Definitely the best choice if Sakurai's deadset on no Ridley.
>Major villain across 3 games, represents the Prime series
>Huge moveset
>playable Metroid, sort of
>>319601532
Link also had his dash attack changed to a jumping slash he uses in his games, with power pretty accurate to how useful it is in those games. That's about it, though. I'd hardly call it an overhaul.
>>319602194
I can see Dark Samus getting Mac'd for Smash 5.
>>319602194
>Tfw dark samus AT fights more like how samus should fight then samus does
>>319602403
No it doesn't.
>>319601567
You're sitting here, whining and defending this franchise, and you can't even remember Metroid 2: Return of Samus? I haven't even played that fucking game and I know about it.
But seriously, what more do you fucking want? Pretty much every franchise gets that sort of treatment, hell some even get it worse! Look at Donkey Kong, supposedly 3rd from Mario, and Zelda. There was a game on Wii, (a port for 3DS) and a sequel on Wii U. What was the previous DK game before that? DK64! Unless you wanna count spin offs like Jungle Beat, and King of Swing. Kirby is the only franchise that gets games on the regular but that's because they're so easy to shit out.
Point is, quit fucking crying.
>>319601513
Yet there he is. He plays fine. He's not fighting at all. A bit of imagination and actually doing something and he fit in perfectly. Any character can work it just depends on how much Nintendo slaps Sakurai around or how much Sakurai wants to do at any given time.
>>319602784
>Kirby is the only franchise that gets games on the regular but that's because they're so easy to shit out.
It's more because it has a dedicated dev. Remember how Nintendo works.
Games get made because a dev simply wants to do it.
Outside of the stuff like a Mario Kart and NSMB per console, they don't really have any series quotas.
>>319592267
>but it had become iconic to her Smash incarnation, so they're loath to change it.
Why were they able to make bowser awesome in Smash 4 but not Samus or Gdorf?
>Why arent characters exactly like they are in their games!
Well first off giving veterans especially 64 and Melee vets who people have been using since 2001 and 1999 a drastic overhaul is just going to piss off their current fanbase, You cant just do that unless you release a clone of the character to do so. That's why Dorf is still a semi-Falcon clone, which honestly isnt a bad thing. He doesnt need to be throwing magic everywhere. And why say Mario's only received a few big changes (Mostly just being his FLUDD)
Secondly alot of these characters represent THEIR FRANCHISE NOT JUST THEMSELVES
I cringe everytime I see a retarded complain that Ness and Lucas are using moves they dont know. Ness is rep'ing ALL of Earthbound so he's going to get his party members attacks ontop of his, Earthbound isnt popular enough to give Paula a character or to add more AT after it (Jeff and Starman already take that role) Pac-Man reps Namco arcade as a whole, given the fact that Namco helped develop the game and its a really creative way to implement him
Sakurai may do some really fucking stupid shit but he does represent characters pretty well (NOT ALL THE TIME INCOMING BOWSER AND RIDLEY SPERGS) But overall he does a great job. Look how well Ryu and Megaman are implemented. Little Mac, Mewtwo, Luigi, and Robin are pretty damn well designed and implemented as my personal favorite examples of this
>>319603398
While I agree with you, why do characters like Ridley have to best set to some overly high standard of representing himself 100% from the games, even though his boss hazard doesn't, when no other character has to? It's really quite stupid but people are so focused on shitting on the evil bad Ridleyfaggoty fags that trying to actually discuss something gets ignored or scoffed at.
>>319603398
>Gdorf being a clone
>not a bad a thing
Stopped reading right there. Your opinion is shit, so please delete your post.
>>319602784
>Cant remember a game that came out 24 years ago
My bad homie.
But it was, you know, 24 years ago.
>>319594095
Hell no, Metroid fans like to overestimate Samus abilities. She is city level at best, those calling her planet buster need to replay the game.
>>319603675
>Cant bother to do a little research about a topic before arguing with someone about it
Well senpai, you have no one to blame but yourself desu.
>>319591024
Oh boo hoo.
Zeldafag here, you will never know my level of asspain over Ganondorf still being a clone 14 years and 3 games later.
>>319603398
>Well first off giving veterans especially 64 and Melee vets who people have been using since 2001 and 1999 a drastic overhaul is just going to piss off their current fanbase, You cant just do that unless you release a clone of the character to do so.
I haven't seen much bitching about Bowser getting changed.
>Little Mac, Mewtwo, Luigi, and Robin are pretty damn well designed and implemented
>Mewtwo
>well implemented
What the fuck am I reading
>>319604368
And it's still better treatment then he gets in Zelda games proper these days.
To everyone in this thread trying to justify Sakurai: Give me one good reason Wario's side smash was changed from the Shoulder Barge to a punch.
>>319604368
>Zeldafag here
>you will never know my level of asspain
You have 5 fucking characters in Smash Bros. I'd take Ridley as a clone of Captain Falcon if it would get him in the game.
>>319603562
I agree, why I said Sakurai makes some really stupid decisions sometimes like how Ridley HAS to be 100 percent to form. Granted some Ridleyfags have points but the majority of them are insufferable cunts who discredit the rest of the game because their character didnt get in. Im fine with him being a boss hazard though the reason for it was kinda weak
>>319603596
When Melee came out Ganondorf appeared in exactly one game, that's not much of a pool to get ideas from. Given the fact that Melee was rushed heavily and that Sakurai was so busy doing everything by himself (He had to balance most of the game on his own) time to fully flesh Ganondorf out simply wasn't their but he still wanted to put him in the game so making him a semi-clone of Falcon a character with a similar build to Dorf was the best he could do.
Brawl didnt come out till six years later people already learned and were used to him as a clone changing him isnt the worst thing.
>>319597110
She'd probably lose, every superhero is way more powerful in the comics version, except Captain America.
She'd wipe the floor with movie Iron Man though
>implying you can defend what they did to wario
>>319603341
Bowser is still shit in 4
>>319591024
Project M has ice beam.
>>319605117
>majority of them are insufferable cunts who discredit the rest of the game because their character didnt get in.
Well when they're scraping the bottom of the barrel with Recolor Pit, Fire Emblem Swordsman #5 and Final Fantasy 7 Remake Marketing Ploy, yeah, that makes sense
>>319605124
This. If put in a comic Samus would only be a city level, she wouldn't be able to beat anyone over that level.
>>319605467
This isn't about how good chatacters are but how well their moves fit them. Ganondorf with actual Wizard powers could be Palutena-tier for all we know
>>319604776
spite isn't a good enough reason for you?
>>319604553
>I haven't seen much bitching about Bowser getting changed.
Functionally he hasn't changed much. He got a faster dash and some changed and a much better back air
>>319604776
Have you ever made a game?
>>319604553
Bowser was made to move upright and got some of his moves altered so they didnt look retarded as they were designed when he was a retarded rolling tank. The changes to him were not a full moveset like some people want Ganondorf to be. At the most give Dorf access to his Dead Man's Volley energy ball but other than that he's fine moveset wise.
Little Mac being a boxer moves like one and dominates on the ground. Given that his shit in the air. He has his KO Punch which ties into his KO mechanic in Punch Out!! and he shows visable battle damage at high percents like he does in Punch Out!! Its pretty faithful
Mewtwo plays out much like I'd imagine he would in a fighter. Just because his shit in game doesnt mean he isnt faithful to his game and anime (Which like Lucario are a huge source of inspiration for how they fight)
Luigi slides everywhere, moves and attacks erratically and can trip over himself much like the clutz he is in his franchise. He jumps very well and moves very well in the air and both his Final smashes draw from his lore
Robin can only use his/her sword and tome's so much they have to wait for them to recharge much like how you can only use a weapon in FE so many times before it breaks.
>>319605968
>At the most give Dorf access to his Dead Man's Volley energy ball
Fuck no.
>>319605968
Luigi actually has really bad air speed
>>319605968
>Mewtwo plays out much like I'd imagine he would in a fighter. Just because his shit in game doesnt mean he isnt faithful to his game and anime (Which like Lucario are a huge source of inspiration for how they fight)
Jesus christ stop. You realize Mewtwo is bigger and heavier than Charizard right?
>>319605968
>and anime (Which like Lucario are a huge source of inspiration for how they fight)
How is this not a huge flaw? The fighting in the anime is completely retarded. Not to mention Lucario's Aura ability in Smash comes out of nowhere and has nothng to do with how he fights in game. A comeback ability like that makes more sense on Charizard. Since, you know, Charizard actually does have an ability that makes him hit harder when his HP is low.
>>319606749
In Pokemon yeah but Mewtwo takes alot from his anime counterpart. Keep in mind Melee came out shortly after the first movie.
>>319607406
Given how Pokemon is a turn based RPG where the actual Pokemon themselves have just started to get attack animations and 3D models that do more than idle, your going to have to use the anime to see how they'd look it they were in battle.
Its not the best, but given what you have to work with it works pretty damn well. I said he doesnt make alot of good decisions but he made more good ones that bad in terms of character implentation
>>319604761
Thats an utterly retarded thing to say.
>>319604790
>5 characters
>2 are literally link
>the one villain is a clone of a dead franchise rep
>zelda and sheik are the only original characters and sheik was only in a single game
yeah, whatever you say, anon. I'd honestly rather not have Ganondorf at all than what Sakurai did.
Smash Bros ruined Wario and Samus
>>319608005
>In Pokemon yeah but Mewtwo takes alot from his anime counterpart. Keep in mind Melee came out shortly after the first movie.
I still don't see it. Assuming he's based on the first movie I still thnk they did a bad job.
>Given how Pokemon is a turn based RPG where the actual Pokemon themselves have just started to get attack animations and 3D models that do more than idle, your going to have to use the anime to see how they'd look it they were in battle.
Except the anime just makes up its own shit and doesn't follow the games at all. The anime thinks Seismic Toss is one of Charizard's best moves, and Scizor is super fast and uncatchable.
>>319608372
I'd say their shiposters on /v/ ruin them harder.
I'm just glad Pac-Man got in, and that he's pretty good.
Shame he gets completely countered by Rosalina though.
>>319608198
At least the second Link isn't missing all his weapons but still somehow better than regular Link.
>>319608005
>the actual Pokemon themselves have just started to get attack animations and 3D models that do more than idle
You literally have no idea what the fuck you're talking about
>>319609063
It's not like Ness, Cloud, and all the Fire Emblem characters are from turn based games as well either
>>319608512
He "talks" he comes off as a villain. He was using Shadow Ball before it was a established move (Back when Melee first came out) like he did in his movie. Sakurai had RBY to go off of for Mewtwo when Melee came out, the only way you actually make a character out of that is with the anime
Seismic Toss on Charizard happened literally 15 years ago its not even relevant to modern day Zard. I've also never seen Pikachu do damage with tail whip, use his electricity and his body to attack aside Volt Tackle which is a move in the games. Jigglypuff's rest isnt a super powerful attack in the games either. Smash has to make its own shit up for the Pokemon because the source material doesnt give you alot to work off of, the anime is used for inspiration
>>319609063
>Side game
>>319608563
Grav Pull is fucking busted. That move needs to be retooled completely
>>319609286
>Sakurai had RBY to go off of for Mewtwo when Melee came out, the only way you actually make a character out of that is with the anime
>Smash has to make its own shit up for the Pokemon because the source material doesnt give you alot to work off of
Kill yourself m8. Every single Pokemon has tons of moves in the games to work with (except maybe Jigglypuff but who gives a fuck about Jigglypuff anyway). Hackurai just didn't because like most games represented in Smash he barely bothered to look at the source material.
>>319609395
>anime
>>319604060
true, but shinesparking is pretty powerful
>>319601362
Mach Rider When?!
>>319610473
What a dumb picture, her boobs aren't even that prominent in her suit
>>319610582
Eh.
>>319605473
Project M is shit
>>319604776
Because Wario Land is finished and Wario having the shoulder barge just makes people want to ask for a Wario Land sequel when Nintendo only wants to make WarioWare.
>>319597828
Startropics 1 and 2 were both on the WIIVC
>>319604776
>Wario has never punched before
Do you even 64DS?
>>319611923
Sakurai get the fuck out
>>319612054
If you were going to get assmad about someone answering your question, you shouldn't have asked it. I'm not here to coddle your faggotron ass.
>>319611923
>a remake of a N64 game
>one he wasnt even in originally
>justification for anything
>>319612252
>HURR IT DON'T COUNT CUZ IT REKS MUH SHITTY ARGYOOMINT!
See: >>319612231
Play Project M if you want a fun Samus moveset that actually reflects on her respective games. I think it has some neat alts as well, don't remember what the Samus one is. I haven't played it myself and obviously Sakurai & co. build the game from the ground-up but you have to respect how much care they put into making the characters original where Sakurai glossed over.
>>319612560
>shilling a ded mod
AYY
>>319612639
>haven't played it
>shilling
>a free mod
>if I cared about it I wouldn't shill it because the devs don't want anyone to talk about it ever again
What do you have to lose? It's clearly what OP wants.
>>319612560
>Project M actually reflects on her respective games
>Ice beam has no distinctive functionality besides being shittier than plasma
lol at least play the game before spouting nonsense
>tempted to ask if any anons want to play Sm4sh 3DS to chill out
>worried I'll get destroyed like I do in For Glory
People on the 3DS version seem waaaay better on average than opponents on the Wii U. Anyone else find that?
>People claim that Ganondorf should be a swordsman
>When him using a sword is way more recent than Melee, and before that Ganondorf was a ping-pong playing magician
>People claim that Ganondorf should be projectile based magician
>When for many years before Ganon was a big pig demon with a trident
So which is the Ganon that deserves it more? Everyone talks about replacing Falcondorf's semi clone moveset, but then which one is the true Ganon. Pig Ganon is the true original Zelda antagonist, magician Ganon comes from the most praised Zelda game and the original appearance in human form (not counting Agahnim), an the current Smash model uses the swordsman Ganon design, who is also the most recent and therefore "relevant" one.
Perhaps combining the movesets? With all the areas that the fusion can cover you'd have to remove some depth to make them all fit into one character and also reducing their effectiveness as to not create another Shiek/Meta Knight that's the best at everything.
Project M moveset-switches? At that point you might as well give Ganon three roster spots wth all the attention you're giving him over other characters, not to mention the risk of having one style utterly dominate and make the others useless (like Shiek) or him being as good as three characters.
I wonder what the reception would be if Falcondorf's moveset remained essentially the same (hitboxes/damage/knockback) but with entirely different animations that make them look all magicky and stuff
>I sure am glad smash bros is such a faithful representation of nintendo series.
It's so funny how Megaman is like 400% more faithful than a huge number of the actual Nintendo reps. Obviously a fanboy on the team.
>>319609286
But Zard up-throw is Seismic Toss now (although it's still cloned from Kirby and Meta-knight's up-throw)
>>319614384
more people play the wii u version.
more people = more shitters.
>>319614438
I think his moveset is fine. It'd be cool if he at least got some visual changes to make his moveset appear more magic.
True MuscleWizard status.
>>319614438
It's just odd that you'd use a magic using character specifically from Ocarina of Time and then make his moveset a clone of Captain Falcon. It's just silly.
>>319609395
I thought the Stadiums were considered mainline, since they directly interacted with the handheld games.
Same with Battle Revolution.
Samus uses fire because in 64 they used the same fire sprites for everyone to save cartridge space.
>>319614438
Even Pig Ganon was a wizard.
In ALTTP he used a shit ton of magic in his fight and in the first game he used invisibility magic.
>>319605968
>Mewtwo plays out much like I'd imagine he would in a fighter. Just because his shit in game doesnt mean he isnt faithful to his game and anime (Which like Lucario are a huge source of inspiration for how they fight)
What do you mean?
He's an OP boss character in the actual pokemon fighter.
>>319609286
>He was using Shadow Ball before it was a established move (Back when Melee first came out)
Umm...
>>319615051
And his alter ego in alttp is basically his Human Form in a shawl, complete with Magic.
>>319609286
>Sakurai had RBY to go off of for Mewtwo when Melee came out
Gold and Silver came out like two years before Melee.
And it's not like Sakurai didn't know about shit before it was even released. Roy's game wasn't even out when Smash came out.
>>319615597
>when Smash came out.
Melee specifically, i mean.
>>319601301
>retards think Sakurai can do what ever he wants with the Pokemon characters
Enjoying your Mario Maker gimped costumes, or your useless Wooly World Yoshi patterns?
