Is it a good dungeon design?
>>318777102
is that from 13?
or 12
nah, have a clusterfuck
>>318777102
That's not a dungeon. That' a hallway.
>>318777102
No.
It is a hose with 3 tiny branches.
Is this a good dungeon design?
>>318777320
>BRD
>Clusterfuck
What? was it your first mmo dungeon or something?
BRD was tedious shit even compared to th eq and ff11 "dungeons", but it was always streamlined as fuck, no different from modern hallways
XIVs dungeon designs are shit. The boss fights are at least decent though.
It's good for a 20 minute run with complete strangers which are with high likelihood complete retards.
>>318777320
I loved that place desu. It had exploration value. linear "dungeons" are boring.
How about this, is this a good dungeon design?
>>318777538
yes
>Halatali
Halatali is the worst dungeon with the worst bosses.
>Chain winches you have to pull which have a chance of dropping loot or spawning enemies; it's down to random chance
>Fuckloads of trash mobs
>First boss is a damage sponge and spawns adds that requires you to divert attention from his absurd HP pool
>Second boss goes invincible and runs off like a faggot twice to throw adds at you; both he and the adds are slow as molasses, making the fight take thrice as long as it otherwise should
>Final boss is a combination of the first and the second- a damage sponge that spawns adds and goes invincible intermittently
>Dungeon doesn't even drop any good or otherwise visually unique gear
It's not even hard/challenging, it's just an exercise in tedium for everyone involved; and if your healer is a lazy cunt who refuses to contribute dps Halatali will easily take over half an hour due to all the padding.
>>318777785
>>318778201
>expecting healers to dps
When will this meme end?
>>318778456
When the meta in XIV stops being "DEEEEEPS"
FFXI dungeons:
-Great place to farm monster items, including some unique drops
-Several mission and quests
-Chests and coffers to loot, at one time actually had worthwhile items
-Logging and Mining
-Multiple Notorious Monsters across a wide range of levels dropping unique and useful items
-Not instanced, you actually have real people to interact with!
FFXIV dungeons:
-Monsters all drop the same useless crap as outside, and if you did need something it'll probably auto-drop to to some guy who doesn't need it and can't trade with you
-Exists to clear a single mission
-Chests give either more useless crap, or generic armor +1
-Zero gathering, this is just a stream of monsters to kill
-Almost never any unique monsters worth going out of your way to kill
>>318778456
>standing around doing nothing in dungeons just because you picked the wrong role
>>318778987
>Playing scholar
>Just set to autofollow the tank
>Come back 10 minutes later and read their bitching
>They keep going anyway
Best feeling.
>>318779190
>dismissing you for AFK
best feeling
Is this good dungeon design?
>>318779243
Yeah that happens sometimes.
>Just instantly get into another group
>Set to autofollow
Is this an exciting adventure?
>>318777102
No.
>>318777538
Yes.
>>318778986
One game was designed to be a real MMO game, the other wasn't.
What about this, is it a good dungeon design?
Is good design dungeon this?
>>318779507
>dungeon
You don't need to bother with design when you make half of it inaccessible without flying.
>>318779796
yes fantastic I love shitty dungeons in shitty games where you have to use motion controls to roll around on a ball
>>318779742
Yes.
Only casual plebs will say otherwise.
>>318779742
The only thing wrong with OoT is that it's obnoxious to continuously remove and equip the Iron Boots in the original.
This is fixed in the 3DS version, and the dungeon becomes actually quite enjoyable.
>>318779796
Holy shit. Is it really that small? I've heard that Skyward Sword is causal, but that shit is literally babby's first dungeon.
>>318778456
When endgame fights stop having mandatory DPS checks.
>>318779742
>There are actually people who thought this was difficult
>>318780206
What bugs the fuck out of me in OoT is that the L button isn't used for anything.
Why would nintendo not make it a hotkey for swapping/cycling between the different Boots? ie. Normal, Iron and later Hover.
Ist es eine gute Dungeon-Design?
>>318780349
yeah skyward sword dungeons are tiny and linear
>>318780363
Unless you're doing Savage and your DPS are shit, it doesn't matter. So that means for 99.9% of the game.
>>318780475
>le ebin nazi meme in le zelda xDDD
If you know any better it's actually a symbol used by Buddhist temples.
I can't tell the difference between XIV:ARR's dungeons or XIII's corridors. It's a damn shame the community is obsessed with speed running and not exploring just so they can cap their eso and go afk for a whole week showing off their white magitek mount in their Gordian/Eso gear.
How did we go from this
>>318779742
to this?
>>318780476
>>318778456
I'm a tank. I pop cooldowns. I see healers spending at least 10 seconds at a time doing literally nothing on every pull. 2/10 made me respond.
>>318780494
Savage and Thordan Ex is all the endgame right now, so it does matter.
>>318780758
You can't blame the community when the game's just not built for group exploration. Outside of dungeons there's practically no reason to do anything with a group. Disregarding the dungeons, half the time your mission battles will actually force you to play solo.
>>318780476
Skyview and Earth, sure. But the Lanayru Mining Facility and Ancient Cistern are good size. Sandship is contained but it works well since you're flipping time shift stones and there's multiple ways to get into rooms, and the Fire Sanctuary is quite large and sprawling.
>>318780935
It doesn't matter for Thordan EX. If you're relying on healer DPS to clear that then you're fucking hopeless.
And we've sure gone a long way from someone bitching about no healer dps in fucking Halitali to the only instance where it might actually matter in the slightest.
>>318777102
its ok
>>318780925
Sounds like you need to stop being a dumb shit and do larger pulls if your healer is sitting around that much.
>>318781403
In Halatali it could save a few minutes, which might not sound like a lot, but since you're running these 4-mans hundreds of times in total, it adds up, just because somebody's a little queenie and decides to just stand around and waste everyone's time.
Of course it goes without saying shitty DPS who roll their face on a keyboard waste far more time than that on a daily basis, because this game is clearly too hard.
>>318781403
It does matter in Thordan EX since all the DPS combined helps. With enough DPS, you can literally skip phases and prevent lots of damage going out and tanks from using cooldowns.
>>318781729
>Skipping phases
Why not just skip the entire fight if skipping phases is so important to you?
>>318781608
Nigga they gate shit so you can't just pull everything or I would.
>>318778986
One is a themepark
The other was a proper MMO
take a guess which one but here's a hintthe one that didn't add fucking flying which was the literal death of WoW
>>318781962
Behold gentlemen, these are the kinda retards that play this game.
>>318782057
>Proper MMO
>Not "Crab Killing Simulator 2000"
>>318778986
>Not instanced
Oh you will have a field day with modern XI
Just wait and see what they did to Dynamis
>>318780447
It switches the map onscreen on or off.
Highly required essential function indeed.
>>318777538
Yes
>>318777320
I dinged 60 here. good times
It's not about how big or complicated a level is, it's about what's in it. You can have the most amazing level design ever, but if all you're doing is walking through it with no enemies or puzzles, it's nothing special.
You guys always show maps of huge complicated levels and say it's better than a hallway and in most cases you're right. But it's about whats in that hallway that matters and showing a top down map doesn't properly explain the true content in that level.
>install EverQuest
>go to Runnyeye at an appropriate level
>Even with mercenaries you still feel afraid of stepping inside because the complexity of old-school dungeons is so intimidating
>>318782253
Hey fuck you buddy I liked my Crab Killing Simulator
>>318780349
Have you played any 3D Zelda games before? They're all like this.
![stormhold_by_kreig[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/lZWqkln.gif "stormhold_by_kreig[1].gif")
>>318782451
Never played original EQ1, but I did enjoy EQ2. I miss public dungeons
>>318777538
>Metal Gear Pots, the area
>those racial dungeons which were basically spam flee and hope reraise doesn't wear off
>Fucking tedious Ix farming
>Going in massive 11+ alliances trying to pick up Blue Magic
fun times, the final CoP areas has god tier design too. The entire area is trippy including the mobs
>>318782443
Wish I could find a composite map of FFXI's sky, with all the zone borders, teleporters, blockades, switch and doorway interactions, and its Notorious Monster hierarchies.
No, this is.
>>318783236
That's not a dungeon that's a fucking circuit diagram.
>>318782451
>get lost in classic EQ dungeon
>die
>have to figure out where the hell you died, make your way back there naked, or lose all the gear you were carrying
>still have to be able to get back out
Shit was brutal if you didn't have Gate.
>>318783060
If the teleporters weren't complete RNG the entire region would be God tier
>>318778372
Bad analogy. Some of those tracks actually diverge.
>>318783334
is this a good dungeon design?
>>318782057
>FF11
>not theme park
Are you fucking shitting me? Everquest was themepark already, and ff11 was just a poor clone of eq with less content
>>318782912
I've been playing the original. What impresses me the most is that the maps aren't flat. You're always either moving uphill or downhill, and to make things even scarier, there's multiple levels with no railings, so getting lost and falling into a death trap or lava pit is extremely easy.
>this was too demanding for modern MMO-players
![zelda-dungeon9[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/qAb0TWG.png "zelda-dungeon9[1].png")
Is this good dungeon design?
>>318779796
>>318780476
SS dungeons are tiny, specially the first two, however, if you count every little thing you need to do in each of those rooms they become much bigger. They are small but that does not mean they were designed the wrong way.
If the dungeon in a video game can be shown in its entirety using a one-floor top-down 2D map, it's shit. No exceptions.
