Am I the only one here that actually likes the Venom twist? I hated the execution of it, but I don't have a problem with the idea.
Na, I liked it to, but like you said, the execution was shit. Ground Zeroes wasn't supposed to be released a year before MGS V. It was supposed to be released with the main game, the twist would of stuck a lot better because people would have been playing it immediately after.
>>318378141
He should have added it like how mgs2 has the tanker
>>318378346
That is what he wanted to do, but he was taking to long. Konami pushed for a "prequel" release of some sort, not Kojima.
it might have been better if the half the game wasn't missing.
>>318377602
I liked the twist, though I wish it had some context. Just showing how venom got the tape and what happened afterwards with ocelot and miller would have helped immensely
This plot has the makings of something genuinely good, but its problems with the plot is that it is simply too sparse, not fleshed out enough and at times, such as the ending, are simply poorly executed. I don't know why Kojima could've just gave a thank you note at the end of the credits instead of incorporating that thank you as a shitty meta twist at the end which makes the whole ordeal come across as patronizing.
With that said, anyone who thinks that the story needs more Big Boss is an idiot. We don't need to see the building of Zanzibar Land/Outer Heaven because we already know all that stuff happens, and there is honestly not all that much story to tell in a conventional sense. We don't need to see Big Boss meet Naomi/Grey Fox etc, because we already know it happens and there's no need to spell it out for us. People who want to see this don't understand the value of the unseen events in storytelling. There was a reason that other media storylines, such as The Sopranos, were based long past the Mafia's heyday.
Also, Big Boss not being present compliments the already sparse 1984 theme of Big Boss essentially being a Big Brother figure. /v/ really needs to get into the idea of 'theme' instead of needing to be spoonfed. They cry for better writing in games, but lack the understanding of what constitutes 'better writing'.
>>318378843
Or maybe you're just an idiot who thinks there's a better story there than there actually is
>>318377602
I guess this is what I feel too. Its a good idea but the execution is halfassed.
What would be perfect is if the game went all the way to Solid Snake actually killing him off in a battle at the end by invading Outer Heaven. Then afterwards you play real Big Boss in freeroam/mission replays.
>>318378965
I said there's a template for a better story, not that there was actually a great story there.
>>318378843
That's why MGSV works well on a conceptual level. It tells the story of Venom and how he was used by Big Boss to accomplish his goals. My problem with the plot is that it's based on revenge for basically no reason. What does the theme of revenge serve to a plot that should be focusing on themes of authoritarianism and group think? But maybe that's what Kojima was going for. That the story isn't really about revenge, and that Big Boss just uses that as a accuse to get people on his side, but even if that is the case, it was executed explicitly enough.
>>318379918
>My problem with the plot is that it's based on revenge for basically no reason. What does the theme of revenge serve to a plot that should be focusing on themes of authoritarianism and group think? But maybe that's what Kojima was going for. That the story isn't really about revenge, and that Big Boss just uses that as a accuse to get people on his side, but even if that is the case, it was executed explicitly enough.
Revenge would of been relevant for the game had it been explored and fleshed out more. I can see where it fits storywise, but the issue is that it isn't present where it should be. Venom himself doesn't even seem all that interested in getting revenge, more like just a jaded person who is just doing the things he does to get his bitchy friends to shut the fuck up. It's problems lay down in the fact that these characters are more interested in having philosophical debates about the concept of revenge instead of actually doing it. In a cassette tape, Ocelot spells out the entire flaw with revenge, that it is just a continuous cycle, but yet doesn't object and is willing to help Diamond Dogs with their revenge?
Its just another example of how a interesting theme is wasted from poor and sparse execution.
>>318378561
Get the fuck out of here you dumb baby
It was a decent twist and pretty well forecast, but yeah, it was pulled off awfully.
Would have been better, I think, if you were just George instead
>>318380482
>George
Whoooooooooo?
>>318380712
Solidus
>>318380712
FROM GUYANA
Hated it. I don't mind playing as a MSF soldier but the plastic surgery addition was stupid.
I actually did expect it a bit like Moby Dick but nothing came from it.
>random medic retconned into being on par with le worlds epicest legendary and most bestest soldier who ever lived
No.
>>318380923
"He's the best man we've ever had."
BB himself stated it and very likely trained the dude himself in everything.
The issue is that the twist means nothing - it's a twist for twist's sake. Even if Kojima didn't destroy all characterization in order to do it, it wouldn't have added anything. Raiden as the protagonist means something - Venom as the protagonist means nothing.
>>318381050
>The issue is that the twist means nothing
Well, it shows how Big Boss is willing to treat his own men like how the American government treated The Boss, and in that respect, makes him a hypocrite.
>>318380923
Aside from the fact that he was the best soldier they had, Big Boss isn't a literal one man army. He's fucking amazing and very good at what he does but people act like he can take on an entire army all at once.
>>318381148
That really doesn't mean anything since Venom is totally cool with it and goes along with the plan too.
>>318381018
Fuck up cunt, that doesn't make it any less of a retcon. Why the fuck was he never seen or even mentioned in any other game if he's that good?
Because Kojima made up some bullshit on the spot as an excuse for his le ebin plot twist xD
I love the Venom thing because I'm the kind of boss who gets very attached to his dudes so basically hearing that Venom was "the best man we had" from Peacewalker I teared up.
>>318381276
>Any less of a retcon
It's not a retcon you fucking dumbass. And he's not mentioned in any other game because a) he's just a mercenary from a company that is long dead and b) he pretty much gave up his identity entirely. As far as anyone knows, the medic just died in a helicopter explosion. 10/10 legendary tale to repeat en masse.
>>318381276
Haha calm down lad its only a game
>>318381393
Well how come he never even came up in peacewalker?
>>318377602
Yeah I didn't mind it. My only problem with all of it is how Venom just accepts what happened to him in the end. How he's there in Outer Heaven, grinning at the lie that is his life. He thinks it an honour, it's kind of tragic. I mean, there's not even that much in the form of revenge for him, Venom was a doormat the moment he woke up from his coma.
I felt like Kaz was the protagonist of MGSV. And Venom was there for the ride.
