>Be a fox player
>APM peaks at around 400
>Average APM is around 250
That's more than fucking star craft brodwar
>Be puff player
>APM maxes out at 120
>Average at 90
>Beat the fox player
Yeah, fuck melee.
>Muh superior speed that means nothing when put up against a better player
>>318316414
>hbox
>better player
Juan, fuck off back to Melee Hell.
>>318316272
Is this a poster for Fox mains to hang up on their room?
Jigglypuff thread?
>APM
>In a party game
Get a life nerd
>oh no! there's more to the game than lightspeed inputs!
>>318316272
>I press buttons really fast
>I don't automatically win
How bout you stop pressing so many goddamn buttons and kill jiggs with upsmash at 40?
Smash complaints thread?
>try to play Ryu
>try to do a smash attack
>HADOKEN!
>okay then, let's try to grab
>HADOKEN!
>fine, dash attack it is
>Hurricane kick the other way, off stage, and SD.
It's not just me, right?
I'm glad Hungrybox is around to humble you fucks
>>318316823
>>318317004
these.
>>318316480
If he's not then why did he win?
>>318317096
command inputs should have been mapped to special and not regular attack
>APM in a party game
You smash fags are the worst. You're no better then kids who pretend that grape juice is wine to act like adults.
>>318317776
>MY ACTION FIGURE IS CLEARLY NOT JUST A DOLL. IT HAS A GUN.
>>318317096
>TR4SH
lol.
>10 frame buffer input.
Of course, you can't handle the 420 APM of melee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vyBV94K4SE
>>318317498
Gimmicks.
Fuck hbox.
>>318317776
>salty 8th gen faggot
go back to your halo 5
>>318316272
>more apm = more gooder
Also calm down you spergvirg it was one fucking major win out of a bunch of losses
>>318318456
BUT IT'S NOT MELEE IF IT ISN'T FOX DITTOS.
MAY AS WELL BE PROJECT M IF WERE GOING TO JUST LET ANYONE INTO GRAND FINALS.
>>318317096
>come up with the idea to get Sm4sh
>oh yeah, it's on the Wii U, which I don't have.
>>318318659
Nigger Dreamhack had 1 fucking fox in the top 8. ONE
>>318316272
When the fuck was it decided that whoever is faster deserves to win?
I swear I beat you're one of those Melee documentary kiddies who can do multi-shines with Fox or Falco but has the fundamentals of a fucking casual and gets trunched by everyone in your scene. Learn to play the game
>>318319171
Netplay
Right now.
20XX or Pal.
44c9475f
>>318319171
>>318319379
Where the fuck are you m8?
>>318316272
I'll bite.
>APM peaks at around 400
Effective APM > Raw APM. Instead of spamming redundant actions, maybe spend some of those extra commands to end your life swiftly.
Someone explain to me what's the appealing of melee
what makes it more competitive than smash 4?
Post top tier Melee fan art
>>318320291
3-4 times more APM.
2-3 times faster.
20 times harder leading to a LOT more satisfaction and in turn, Fun.
>>318318116
>Better neutral
>a gimmick
Meleefags, everyone
>>318321204
>>>/TR4SH/
>>318320291
An actual skill-ceiling you don't bang your head against.
>>318321004
I mean that's a lot of Leffens.
>>318321004
>>318320291
Much faster pace. The flow doesn't reset back into neutral after a combo so easily
Stocks can be harder to hold onto and gimping is a bigger part of the meta
Ledge-play is far more interesting than ledgetrumping, which makes recovery an actual challenge.
More stocks mean that the flow of the battle can completely change, instead of just coming down to both players living to over 100+ on their last (second) stock
Best characters have weaknesses that can be exploited to balance them being so effective (Fox is the best character but he's easily to combo to death, Jigglypuff dies really early)
Metagame has over a decade of development and continues to adapt, new tech is still discovered
The number of stages is limited but the different properties of each one makes stage counterpicks a pretty interesting mechanic
>people fighting over smash 4 and melee
>>318321930
no one mentioned tr4sh.
>>318321930
>2 people mentioning smash 4
>fighting
>le black twitter man
>>318321930
Well they can't fight in their games so internet fights have to do.
>>318316272
>Muh APM
400 apm means absolutely nothing when only 25% of it actually matters.
>>318322581
Keep telling yourself that m8.
A simple Drill shine Drill shine up smash combo is around 5 inputs a second.
Melee EASILY requires the most APM in fighting games. It rivals RTS games for fucks sake.
If you gave even a bit of a fuck about melee, you would know how technical it is.
>>318322813
>how technicall it is to spam the triggers to perform a bug that lets you slide across the floor
>>318321567
Yeah I wish ignorant fucking stubborn-ass Smash 4 TOs would get with the most popular stagelist already
Fuck Delfino/Halberd/Siege jank, so many people are happy with the Final D/Battlefield/Smashville/Town&City/Duck Hunt/Lylat/Dreamland list, but there are still dumbass TOs who refuse to adapt. Until then I really cant say Smash 4's stagelist/counterpicking has the same depth as Melees
>>318323013
L canceling an aerial attack is a bug?
Ok, i guess they put SmoothLanding (L cancel) By accident IN THE FUCKING MANUAL OF THE GAME.
>>318322813
>>318323013
>shitposters trying to bait each other this hard
You both look retarded, fuck off back to r/smashbros or wherever you came from
>>318323218
Melee requiring a ridiculous amount of APM is shitposting?
Ok m8.
>I main
Kill yourself.
If you don't play random you're a faggot.
>>318323275
>mashing buttons is skill
![1375649705_jack_of_all_trades-1cfahdf[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/ZFv4XbT.gif "1375649705_jack_of_all_trades-1cfahdf[1].gif")
>>318323420
>Use another perfectly legit character in a fighting game
>Beat all of the faggots jerking themselves off over Fox and Falco
>BAWWWW THE CHARACTER IS BROKEN THIS ISN'T HOW MELEE IS SUPPOSED TO BE I WANTED THIS TO BE MUH FAWKS ONLY APPRECIATION GAME WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN? FUCKERS FUCK YOU TOO MARTH SHITHEADS
Oh the tears.
What's funny is if aMSa had broken through with Yoshi, you'd be rolling on the ground squealing about how Yoshi is the no-skill worthless baggage from N64 should be removed kill all yoshi players QQ
>>318323695
No, yoshi requires a lot of skill to play him at the level amsa is playing him.
You never played melee past the casual level, so you wouldn't know.
It's koo.
>>318316272
you have your info mixed up, average pro BW apm is 450, peaks are ~700... and that's not spamming...
>>318323879
>>No, yoshi requires a lot of skill to play him at the level amsa is playing him.
So does Jigglypuff
>>318323879
>koo
oh I get it now
you're mangonation, aren't you!
>>318324032
false
>>318324159
I am european, so, no.
>>318318960
>pal fox has a cute firefox
What's the worst matchup in all of melee?SamusvsLeffen
>>318324581
7/10
>>318324459
How does Jiggs take less skill to play?
I'd argue that in the Fox match up it take more skill because Fox literally doesn't have to approach
>>318323879
>N-No I wouldn't be that way he takes a lot of skill!
Please find the other Jigglypuffs in high-tier who are wiping the floor with the fox players.
No go on, list them.
>>318324459
>I don't like it so it doesn't take skill to do
If that were the case, why aren't there more Jigglypuffs winning majors?
>you will never play Samus dittos with Duck and have a great time together, constantly laughing at neat Samus stuff that most other people just don't GET
he's so fucking cuteDuck >>> HugS
Don't feel bad for Amada/Mango, they'll always have each other.
>>318324996
MangoxArmada is my fucking OTP
>>318324976
Plup >>>> Duck
>>318324829
You know what? Every single puff player admits that they're using gimmicks to win, even hbox.
Mango knew puff didn't take any skill to play, so he switched, same with tekk and frozenlight.
Nobody wants to play against a puff because the most fun game on the planet becomes a chore that you simply dont want to do.
Congrats to hbox for taking it, he deserve it i guess, but if we're seriously arguing right now that puff takes skill, then i don't have anything else to add. He's got the reads after analyzing his matches against armada for 1 week straight together with a hired fucking manager, he managed to beat armada.
Nobody plays puff because it isn't fun.
>Comparing Smash Bros to Starcraft of all things.
Please, you make yourself look ridiculous.
BW/SC2 might be "dead" but the skill ceiling still blows your shit party game out of the water.
https://youtu.be/GBxnmiFkDiQ?t=571
So, who do you guys main?
Mario guy here.
>>318324758
Jiggs doesn't approach at all, they stay away and bair it out or grab ledge. The only time they approach that I can think of is after hitting bair or crossing up shield with nair. Fox spams lasers in the matchup to add on percent so he can't be cc grabbed into death at 0. You can DI out of uthrow rest but it's a lot harder to completely get out of it at low percents, especially with platform tech chases, which Jiggs is good at after uthrow.
The matchup is still heavily in Fox's favor though, but that's the optimal way to play on both sides in that matchup - campy.
Still, I don't understand how someone could say Jigglypuff requires tons of tech skill to play. I don't know if people are fishing for responses or truly don't understand. I'm just jumping into the conversation, by the way.
>>318325243
>hired fucking manager
You mean the guy that was chilling with him at Dreamhack? Nah thats his buddy CaptainCrunch.
He's been friends with him for years and even took him to Evo
>>318325227
>Plup super wavedashing into moonwalk with samus
He also does Short hop fast fall super missiles. It's a 2 frame window, swuper wavedash is a 1 frame window.
I don't care how much muscle memory you got, but knowing when the 42nd frame is after your down b so you can smash the stick back and forth within 15miliseconds is just amazing.
The better you get at melee, the more you appreciate what the top players are doing.
Like, at least 95% of /v/ can't do 5 short hops in a row with fox or samus. This ain't saying a lot but still. You have to learn how to jump in that game, fucks sake.
>>318325243
>You know what? Every single puff player admits that they're using gimmicks to win, even hbox.
Okay.
For all the shit that's cut out of smash. All the stages banned because 'gimmicks', all the mechanics banned, the one thing I've really respected is that they haven't banned characters yet.
Are we to the point now where we gotta start banning characters because 'le shit gimmicks it's 2 ez'?
If it was REALLY too easy, why the fuck are there so many fox and falcos at the top? No one thought to do it before Hbox? I don't believe that.
Do you seriously think Leffen wouldn't jump ship to Puff if he thought he could wipe the floor with the entire bracket with him?
>>318325526
you now your not going to convince the retard in this thread. hes just trolling. hes mad cause melee gets more attention than his shit games and how old is it.
>>318325243
lel
hbox said he got good using gimmicks one time in the documentary and now every documentary kiddy like you takes it out of context and says Jigglypuff is le no skill broken gimmick character
>>318325385
Ok so you never played melee past the casual level. Alright m8.
here is an ancient vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8
This is upper mid level play.
>>318318116
Come on man. You absolutely have to be play better to beat a fox with Jiggly I mean the matchup is like 70-30 in fox's favor. Stop bullshitting.
>>318325858
Fuck off with that shit mate
Dark is literally a TAS machine and the only two players who actually do shit like that are Westballz, and occasionally Hax
If you care about APM play Marvel
>>318325602
Nobody is gonna ban any character. This isn't brawl were Meta knight was banned from 1/3rd of the tournaments. Or ice climbers only needing one grab. Fuck, brawl is the most broken shit on the planet, it makes melee look well thought out.
And yes, like i said, every single puff player in existence admits that they're using gimmicks.
>>318325602
What you're saying would make sense if Smash players weren't all fucking retarded children.
For whatever reason there are tons of character specialists who play members of the cast that have no chance of winning anything and are respected for it.
And of course you get retards crying about "gimmicks" as it that means anything. As if there is some sense of "fair play" that things they don't like obstructs.
>>318326080
rip hax.
Also yeah, Dark is easily the most technical Fox on earth. But he loses to everyone in the top 100.
>>318326127
Marvel has frame buffering to make combos easy/ier to pull off.
Melee doesn't.
>>318326132
What does using "gimmicks" have anything to do with it. To beat a fox player you have to outplay them plain and simple. Due to the matchup a fox player will wipe the floor with you if you play at equal skill. The matchup is so bad you can outplay someone with Jiggs and still lose.
>>318326132
>And yes, like i said, every single puff player in existence admits that they're using gimmicks.
Yeah, all those great gimmick players wiping the floor with those fox and falcos. I guess that's why HBox is the first, right?
>>318326398
Yes there is fair play in melee. I myself SD'd during pools, and the other guy just SD with me for fair play.
>>318326415
Probably but the APM comes from the neutral if you use anyone with flight
>>318326415
Melee also doesn't have combos like Marvel does.
>>318323171
I think he meant wave dash m8
>>318325858
You do realize that SC has things like split second projectile dodging on top of the macro management and strategy, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b3C670mTbo
I'm not saying that Melee is easy, it's far harder than most games out there but if you think it's on the same level as SC you're deluded.
>>318326398
most people at the top play Fox and Falco because that's what works. They're well-understood technical characters that have lots of study behind them.
Why is it different when it comes to Puff? Leffen himself stated that he plays only what lets him win. If it was that easy, why isn't he a puff player?
>>318326398
>For whatever reason there are tons of character specialists who play members of the cast that have no chance of winning anything and are respected for it.
>low tier heroes are only a smash thing
Are you retarded?
>>318326605
Ok now you're just shitposting. Zero to Death combos happen once or twice every match. Even at my level of play.
>>318326778
I have to pass on this one. The only RTS game i really got into was wc3, and i was mediocre at best at it.
>>318325434
Hbox himself said he plays puff because he isn.t fast enough for the fox shit
>>318326920
>Being fast is the only way to be good
Okay
>>318316272
>APM
Nope, leave now. Mashing buttons because you think "it's the right reaction" is autistic as fuck in melee. Average apm is at 250 and you're doing 400 and you wanna bitch about how much better you are than pros? Fuck off, dude. Stop mashing buttons, and if you have balls then show us a link of you playing. At least that way people can tell you where you're doing wrong instead shitting on you because you're making yourself look like you're pretending to be the next tismuking/hungryfag.
>>318327015
I was waiting before the word "autism" or "autistic" was gonna show up.
First line, was to be expetced.
Needless to say that i stopped reading there.
Play some melee, it's fun.
>>318327121
You realise you did not respond ad look like a massive tool?
>>318316272
>Fox player
>Complaining about anything
You have every literal fucking tool in the game aside from a goddamn tether.
Stop fucking crying.
>>318327278
>tfw fox has at least 5 options available at any given time.
Anyone who hates on melee has never played it.
It's impossible to not like it.
>>318325385
>>318328604
no one hates it, all smash games arefun
the problem is the elitist toxic fanbase
>>318326080
>drill waveshines are for only the most technical foxes that only like 3 people can do.
That video is bread and butter Fox play. If you can't do simple things in that video like drill shines and turnaround bair then you probably can't even beat a scrub.
Puff
>severely disadvantaged against the best and most popular character in the game
>have to be present and adaptive for the entire match or else you'll get lamed out
>can only succeed with consistently superior spacing and by getting a good read on your opponent
>have to repeatedly win the neutral despite having less, and inferior options
>reach kill% very early
>can punish pretty hard though
Fox
>has many options available to him at any given moment
>as long as you don't mess up your highly ingrained muscle memory you can be perfectly safe
>can get puff to kill% without even touching her
>projectiles and much better movement makes him better at camping than puff
>has the best frame data in the game, and moves that consistently beat out puff, making him better up close
>two very powerful kill options (jab-usmash & grab-uthrow-uair) that cover 2 parts of RPS
>can approach from pretty much any angle safely
>can literally CC and counter all of puff's approaches at low%
It's one of my favourite matchups to play, so intense and satisfying, but you can't deny it's complete bullshit
>>318329112
>>>/LoL/
>>318329774
Both have to play very safe in order to not die. It's rock paper scissors, well, every match up comes down to RPS but puff vs fox just takes it to a whole other level.
It's simple shit.
>>318316272
>I suck at smash, better make an image to show how butthurt I am
Stay mad.
>>318316272
>meleefags care more about mashing buttons than actually thinking what they're doing
>>318316272
Fox dominates the matchup, Hbox is just a godly player. Fuck off, faggot.
>>318325414
Ganon user reporting in.
>>318321004
>>318321472
Holy kek lmao
>APM in a "fighting game"
Does APM in FPS matter as well?
>>318333059
Raw APM in RTS is pretty irrelevant too since so many pros just do shit to inflate it.
Hell I ould just mash my face into a keyboard and beat them at APM. Obviously not in game though
>>318333763
Point is APM is meaningless in games where you can't perform multiple functions at once.
>>318322813
>muh apm directly translates to skill
Fei long comboing hard punch into rekka is 13 inputs in a second
