>your character has a backstory, and a predetermined intro sequence
How am I supposed to roleplay in this game again? Not even being cynical. Literally how am I supposed to get into the mindset of a character who has already been set from the start?
"Roleplay" never meant you play as a blank character.
By playing the other games and reading the books. This isn't your character, it's a famous witcher.
By roleplaying being said Witcher.
RPG is not always "be a nameless blank page" as a game that allows everything is a game that focuses on nothing.
Youre gonna need a bigger b8
>>318038314
>>318038330
>>318038479
>its okay when these developers do it
LOL HYPOCRISY MUCH
>>318038541
This
Screencapped for future lol threads. Witcher fags BTFO since MGSV and FO4 took GOTY and Witcher got left in the shit pile.
>>318038180
>people want to play role playing games while "role playing" as themselves.
You know this is a very new (and also stupid) train of thought, right? RPGs used to be playing as a character, pre-determined or otherwise, using your judgement to guide their decisions and gain EXP/abilities (learning) as them, essentially "role playing" as them. THAT was the important aspect.
I'm not sure why the "make a character" feature is something people associate with RPGs now.
>>318038541
>only cdp does it
kek
>>318038541
Square Enix
Konami
Bioware
Nintendo
Obsidian
>>318038604
>you can blend in boss but you can't blend in witcher
>>318038180
Who even bothers getting in the mindest of a character anyway? If I get options in a game I'll just do what I'd do in that situation. None of this giving your character a backstory crap
>>318038604
I don't understand this implied fanboy thing. More often than not, someone is likely to play and enjoy two or more of these three games.
>>318038658
This. It's just a generation of retards who have grown up with the idea that you need to spend an hour on facial measurement sliders before you even start the game
>>318038180
so OP you posted this already in a fallout 4 thread with the same greentext.
are you retarded or do you need attention like your fucking 13 yo sister?
>>318038180
>Witcher is an RPG game
ebin meme mate)))))
Witcher is a Zelda on the steroids, RPG is just a marketing word. Although actually having some legit choices and branching quests here and there is nice.
>The witcher series
A series famous for letting you play as Geralt of Rivia, a famous witcher and choosing his path with your decisions.
>The fallout series
A series famous for letting you create a character of your own liking that can be anyone.
See, the problem is, people who like the witcher might not like or care about fallout 4 AT ALL. They like their game.
People who liked previous fallout games, could be the ones whining about the predetermined character in FO4.
How is it hypocricy?
>>318038604
The only thing Fallout 4 took away from The Witcher 3 was the award for the buggiest Open World Game this year.
>He bartered with the already desperate peasants for a better reward
>He killed the Witcher from the School of the Cat
>He let Keira live
>>318039425
>2015
>Not banging Keira and then letting that idiot Lambert have the sloppy seconds
>>318039425
>None of these choices had any real consequences in the end, other than the players patting themselves on the back and claiming "I roleplayed and made a choice!"
The difference between this and fallout 4 is that geralt isn't a stupid half-assed character, half-assed blank plate.
>>318038180
you are roleplaying as geralt of rivia you dumbfuck
I wish normies who see "roleplay" as "Selfinsert" would just leave
>>318038180
>People missing the point
The point is, someone has been making this thread for days now, but with Fallout 4 as the image used in OPs post.
>>318039612
>Fallout 4
>Everything you did doesnt matter in the end
>Even less variety than Mass Effect 3
The sad truth is that FO4 is way more a RPG than the witcher franchise, which is just an action game with dialogue options.
>>318039425
>He killed the Witcher from the School of the Cat
Well, yeah; that Witcher was a dangerous asshole, in spite of how the villagers were. If it was self defense, I would have understood, but he straight slaughtered everyone there in a fit of rage.
Fuck him. Sure, witchers are a rare sight these days, and it's a shame when one bites the dust but a Witcher that goes on a killing spree is no longer fit to be a professional monster slayer and needs to be taken care of before he does more damage. Gaetan was no friend of Geralt's and thus no friend of mine.
>>318039845
it also means more contracts for geralt
>>318038180
Prior to the first game, Geralt completely forgets who he is. As you roleplay as this blank slate, people tell you more about yourself and he gets fragments of memories back, bringing him more in line with the pre-established Geralt. Geralt in the Witcher 3 contains the history of all the books, but he is basically a new man which is why you are able to affect his morals and reactions. CD Projekt found the happiest medium between choice in game and staying true to book fans.
I wonder how Witcher 3 will do at Dorito Pope's award ceremony.
>>318039803
Oh, I totally agree with you. But the same issues are present in the Witcher 3, who's choices are binary at most and who's consequences only affect trivial details or the progression of the quest, who's choice is associated with, themselves. The Witcher 3's choice system is way too contained for the purposes of "roleplaying". If the element of choice in Witcher 3 makes it an RPG, then what's the difference between W3 and any Telltale game? What's preventing telltale games from being considered RPG's from this logic? There's the same amount of choice and consequence in a Telltale game than there is in the Witcher 3.
>>318038658
Not really. Self-inserters are the worst kind of roleplayers, in both video games and tabletop. They're the type that gets offended by something minute because they perceive it in their heads as a personal attack. Roleplaying isn't really about extending YOUR OWN persona into the character, it's about playing as the character you CAME UP with.
>I'm not sure why the "make a character" feature is something people associate with RPGs now.
There's nothing wrong with that by itself. It's the fact all that shit is just cosmetic aside from your class and gender in some games. It has almost zero impact on actual story and shit.
>RPG's
>videogames
pick one. Even the most oldschool ones, when they actually cared about worldbuilding and tried to make the experience similar to the pen and paper RPG as much as it was possible still kinda failed.
>>318039981
>But the same issues are present in the Witcher 3, who's choices are binary at most and who's consequences only affect trivial details or the progression of the quest, who's choice is associated with, themselves.
But there's nothing wrong with that. Choices don't have to be world-sweeping to justify their existence. And Witcher 3 has those as well, although still within reason because, guess what - you're still just a fucking Witcher minding his own business.
>>318040053
>There's nothing wrong with that by itself.
Most def, but the thing is, you can do that with virtually any genre, but people always associate it with RPGs...
>>318038180
You posted this in the GOTY thread yesterday
Why so ass-sore fallout-bro?
>retroactively change the story and fuck over canon in order to cater to biodrones
>goty
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>318040106
I don't think they failed as much as they aware of their own limitations and didn't really play on the whole CHOICES and MUH STORY angle. So called "storyfag" games, as someone coined the phrase, are a relatively new variation in the RPG field.
>>318040276
Agreed. I don't think you can make a videogame an RPG more then it was in Fallout 2 or Arcanum, for example. The technology is not there. And now it's even less of a possibility, considering that videogames are a fucking blockbusters with a fuckton of dollars in it.
>>318039956
>already 4 overall GOTY awards
Can anybody stop the poles?
>>318040406
>retroactively change the story and fuck over canon in order to cater to biodrones
>goty
HAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHA WELL MEME'D MEMESTER
>>318040146
My issue stems along the fact that there is no real consequence for your choices because nothing changes at all. Yeah, the Baron died, but does it really matter outside of that singular quest. Hell, even when Radovid dies, the Redanians still exclaim "long live king Radovid". I recall doing a playthrough of the Iorveth Side and having the Temerians with Roche still exclaim on how I help Roche assist with murdering King Henselt despite that never happening.
What I'm getting at, is that the choices in the Witcher 3 don't affect anything at all. It will always play out exactly the same despite minor details. It's too easy to brush off every false choice in this game as "don't have to be world-sweeping to justify their existence" when the entire game is promoted on the premise of "you are a Witcher and your choices matter!". They really don't, it doesn't change a thing or have any real consequence on anything.
Contrast this with F:NV, where if I murder Caesar, it has a detrimental effect on making the Legion a permanent enemy, where gameplay aspects will have Legion attack me on sight if I step anywhere near their territory and send hit squads after my character, and I'm prevented from taking the Legion branch of the storyline. That is choice and consequence.
>>318040520
>already 4 overall GOTY awards
Can anybody stop the poles?
>>318038604
nice bait
>>318040406
Just irrelevant sites for now.
>>318040602
>retroactively change the story and fuck over canon in order to cater to biodrones
>4 goty awards
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LITERALLY DELUSIONAL
>>318040751
>second oldest and longest running award
>its irrelevant because muh fallout lost ;_;
kek
>>318040774
>already 4 overall GOTY awards
Can anybody stop the poles?
>>318040520
What? You mean when they let you import your save file?
>>318040853
Geralt to Triss:
>''I've always loved you, during, before and after [the amnesia]''
>>318040962
fucking yenfags sperging out kekyenfag mysefl tho but chill down nigg
>>318041018
>retroactively changing the story and fucking over canon is acceptable behaviour
Nice try, CDPRShill.
>>318041058
>already 4 overall GOTY awards
Can anybody stop the poles?
>>318040962
>complaining about a dialog option you can choose
>>318041139
His just mad todd lost, don't worry marcin we still love you
>>318041139
I should've guessed you're a normie who just accepts fat corporate cock slapping you in your face.
A choice that results in two completely different realities is not a good choice, it's a fucking retarded choice that exists solely for the purpose of pandering to a select group of people. And anyone who defends that kind of writing is the type of consumer who gobbles up any sort of crap capitalists try to shuv down their throats.
Since when has it become acceptable for games to include choices which result in two completely different past realities? That's not good writing, that's extremely cheap writing.
>>318039671
Yeah, and that's a false analogy. Fallout 4 does it half and half, making a totally bland, seemingly self-insert character, but imposes a backstory and motivation.
Geralt is a fully fleshed out complex and interesting character.
>>318041135
>>318040837
>retroactively change the story and fuck over canon in order to cater to biodrones
>4 goty awards
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHA
>>318041330
source on the picture?
>>318041343
>already 4 overall GOTY awards
Can anybody stop the poles?
>>318041361
nope
>>318038180
go back to sleep todd, you are getting desparate
>>318038180
not to mention the character is a faggot among his fellow faggot friends
>>318038180
Crash course in roleplaying Geralt. If it walks, fuck it. If its still walking fuck it again.
>>318038180
THEN MAKE A BETTER GAME, I DARE YOU
I don't give a fuck how overbearing this sounds, this is true. MAKE IT BETTER!
And if there wouldn't be people complaining, see Big Boss in V, same thing gonna happen.
>>318040545
>Comparing shit like NV with The Witcher 3
>Lists a minor change ( Legion hates you ) as something groundbreaking
Lol this nigger
When's the damn expansion coming out?
I want both at the same time.
Fucking Fallout 4 sucked balls. Recycled shit.
>LAZARE LAZARE
>>318041330
>Geralt is a fully fleshed out complex and interesting character
Please tell me you're joking, it's a ridiculously contrived self-insert bullshit character
>Muh special witcher who is special among the special, he is a tortured and misunderstood superhero who can do no wrong and has bitches lusting after his superhuman dick
>>318041487
More like be a walking bundle of insecurities trying to act gruff even though you're not.
Then get called out on it by all your friends that know you're just putting on an act. Geralt is the ultimate spaghetti character.
>>318038604
Metal Gear Solid won't ever win GOTY, nor won't FO4.
Witcher 3 is actually the only game under these titles that tried a different approach.
>>318041487
10/10
>>318041592
-t 4chan autist
>>318038604
How many sluts can you bang in fo4 or mgs5? Bam! You bleed tears out your ass from the spanking. Witcher is for adults.
>>318039845
He didn't slaughter anyone, the girl lived AND the villagers did attack him AFTER HE DID THE JOB.
I would've raped the children of their children.
Even normies like witcher 3 more than fallout 4 brehs
>>318041568
You seem to not understand the character.
>Its not OK when Bethesda does it
>>318039612
By that logic no choice in the history of video games matters either because you finish the game then go back to being a sad little fucker
the main theme of the witcher (the books) was always the choice between two evils, and that humans are worse than monsters. Add in some political shit, swearing, fucking and dark humour and here you have it. I think all the games are pretty good representations of the books and their theme. Also being this disabled
>go into gamestore
>check witcher 3 game
>'play as the famous geralt of rivia, the witcher'
>'based on the bestselling novel'
>still complaining this is not a 'muh bioware or skyrim' rpg
>>318041732
>Yuh jus dun git it mahn
You actually went through with posting that? You actually wrote that out and though "yea, this is fine"?
>>318041796
Maybe cause the story is complete shit and they might as well have given us a clean slate?
It's better to just ignore all those movies that came out after witcher 1.
this thread and board is proof that people don't even know what the fuck RPG is or means and will bicker over the semantics of that until their fingertips are sore.
>>318042015
Thanks you for your enlightened contribution. What the hell is wrong with you?
>>318041857
Hey subhuman, you never got back to me yesterday about why moralfags are justifiable character archtypes. That whole rambling 'y-you buy just dun understand muh morals' bullshit wasn't your legit retort was it?
>>318042182
Pretty sure you took more than half an hour and still didn't manage to phrase a retort and are now trying to fabricate a victory you never attained. Nice try though.
>>318038180
you do that by bitching on your progressive tumblr blog instead of posting here
>>318042278
wtf is going on here?
a war of who's got the best vocabulary?
>>318042140
you speak as if i came here just give a breath taking opinion. the hell is wrong with you too?
>>318039845
He was promised a greater reward inside the barn, where the villagers stabbed him in the back with a pitchfork.
It's just a good, short quest. Siding with him is probably one of my favorite parts of the game. It seems like the guy expects you to kill him. Having Geralt not particularly agree, but understand why, then have him sit down without music just for a while was nice.
Didn't feel so bad when you get to his hideout, and see that he had been taken advantage of multiple times.
Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 are both good games. The story elements of Witcher 3 are god tier the whole way through. Fallout 4 is a solid entry in the franchise with insanely fun crafting and settlement building.
Quit making arbitrary standards for good games just to find something to bitch about.
>>318042278
Nice try kid but it's right there in the archive I got the last word. Maybe you were too busy watching the newest capeshit to respond. Not that you had anything of merit to say.
>>318042640
>I got the last word
Yea, apparently you legitimately waited until I left to get your "last word" which is really fucking pathetic.
Fact remains, your argument boiled down to "it's dumb cuz it's not realistic" while in reality moralfaggotry is the fucking norm, just look at the retarded SJW's of today and tell me moralfaggotry is unrealistic.
>B-but it's still bad!
Great, explain why, and be sure to include why such blatant escapism is justifiable when moralfaggotry isn't.
>>318041721
He slaughtered the entire village for the actions of the few in charge.
>>318042365
No anon, feel free to explain to me why you decided that post was worth posting, because it's literally irrelevant bullshit.
>>318038541
the witcher series, like the books, has mostly been geralt's perspective, maybe from the perspective of one or two other characters.
fallout 4 on the other hand lands you with a 'predetermined intro sequence' and backstory when, throughout the rest of the series, a lot of your backstory was up to you.
cyberpunk 2077 should allow you to make your own character because THERE IS A PRECEDENT of character creation in the tabletop game. fallout HAD A PRECEDENT for it with previous games. the witcher DOESN'T. a lot of good tabletop campaigns, and even some crpgs, land you with a predetermined character who you roleplay as.
quit being so fucking precious
>>318042417
>Didn't feel so bad when you get to his hideout, and see that he had been taken advantage of multiple times.
It's also implied that this wasn't the first time he lost his temper.
His demeaner was justified, but his actions weren't.
>>318042505
>insanely fun crafting and settlement building.
Hmmm, no!
>>318038180
Beat this kid please
>>318038604
>implying characters in shitout 4 or in mgsV are blank
>screencaping his own retardation
k
>>318042864
>cyberpunk 2077 should allow you to make your own character because THERE IS A PRECEDENT of character creation in the tabletop game. fallout HAD A PRECEDENT for it with previous games. the witcher DOESN'T. a lot of good tabletop campaigns, and even some crpgs, land you with a predetermined character who you roleplay as.
To be fair CP77 could still turn out to be the same kind of game as Witcher, except you get to customize your character.
Well, if you played all three games then you are eased into the character.
>>318038838
>>318038954
>>318039243
>>318040701
>>318041697
>>318042954
>Witcherfags get so BTFO with their own hypocrisy keep spamming the thread to keep it alive to try and save face
MY
FUCKING
SIDES
>>318042769
> you legitimately waited until I left
On a anonymous image board? You're aware we're not in a chat room right?
> in reality moralfaggotry
Try leaving your basement once in a while. How many paragons of virtue have you met in real life? How often do you seen anyone act altruistically? Don't use yourself as an example because we both know that's a load of bullshit. You know fuckall about real people.
>Just look at the retarded SJW's of today and tell me moralfaggotry is unrealistic.
>Great, explain why,
You just did that yourself. Unless you want to admit to us all you're a SJW? Wouldn't surprise me at this point.
You literally have a child's understanding of what makes good fiction. And apparently are so out of touch with reality you think characters like Kenshiro or Superman are 'the norm' amongst regular human society. Boy you're gonna have a harsh awakening, that's alright though, most moralfags do once they realize the real world isn't the black and white cardboard world from their cartoons.
>>318043017
Oh geez, anon.
Let me help you out.
>>318038180
Why would you play an action game when you wanted ro play an RPG? Are you retarded?
>why doesnt this banana taste like a strawberry
>and whats with that retarded color
>>318042965
well it depends what you want. with a predetermined character you can make a much more focused storyline and play to that character's strengths and weaknesses.
making your own character means the devs have to accommodate all sorts of different characters people make which leads to stuff being way less focused and probably less characterisation.
having played stuff like gothic and pst and the witcher i'm gonna have to say i prefer getting a predetermined character with a little bit of give when it comes to the choices they make.
>>318038604
>Witcher has mods
>FO4 has lots of mods
>MGSV is denuvo anti-mod garbage
It may have a change at goty with consoletards but noone plays it anymore on PC.
Friendly reminder that mgsv had the potential for great mods, you could do huge dd vs commies battles but the publisher decided 1weeks of drm is better.
>>318043043
>On an anonymous image board
OK, feel free to explain why, after waiting half an hour, you still had not responded and now the next day come in here to claim you had the last word, go ahead son.
>Try leaving your basement once in a while
>My anecdotal experience is reality defining, yours is not!
Jesus anon, really?
So once again you're back to generalizations, stereotyping, polarizations, ad hoc bullshit and childish oversimplification of a complicated issue.
Color me shocked, because I didn't see this coming at all!
>Alturism
>Moralfaggotry
>This is the same thing
That's nice dear, maybe next time you can learn what words mean before you try to use them, or at least explain what definition you're trying to enforce when discussing it in an argument. Here's a hint for you, moron, moralfaggotry has nothing to do with alturism, unless you consider alturism as the only kind of morality, which is fucking retarded.
>>318042807
>entire village
Nigger did you even play the quest? It was a solitude farm, a single house with a shack. The 4 people he slaughtered where all trying to jew him out of his money and his life.
>>318040545
This,
Game feels shallow, consequesces doesn't affect gameplay.Witcher 3 is GOTY
>>318043017
>A role-playing game is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development. Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.
>the roles of characters in a fictional setting
>fictional setting
>setting
>anon is unable to comprehend easy definitions
>still thinks he have upper hand
>>318038180
Since you seem to be able to assume a role you are not making yourself, i.e. a self insert, you can´t roleplay even when designing your own character, or else you would not have a problem with it.
>>318040545
>kill Caesar
>legion_faction_kill_on_sight=1
>meaningful consequences
>>318043395
I remember there being at least six or so houses and corpses numbering in the double digits. The people that backstabbed him with a pitchfork him were around two or three.
Besides, if you do decide to fight him and give him a chance to potion up, he instead uses a bomb on you before you have a chance to act. I gave him a chance to defend himself in a fair fight, witcher to witcher, and he acted like a opportunistic coward.
Glad I got the finisher where Geralt bisects the fucker diagonally on him. Felt really satisfying after that douchery.
>>318043724
There were nine victims including the attackers, but yeah, Gaetan went overboard in his reaction.
I chose to kill him because Witchers already have a nasty reputation and I didn't need him going around making it harder and harder to find contracts because he can't control himself when dirty peasants act like dirty peasants.
>>318043307
You clearly don't even know what moralfag even means. Is this literally your first day on 4chan? Honest question, how long have you been here?
Newsflash subhuman: 'moralfag' does not refer to characters who possess morals, it describes a certain archetype, that being, do-gooders, warriors of justice and paladin types like Kenshiro. Educate your ignorant self before opening your dumb fuck mouth about matters that clearly precede your entire existence on /v/. I guess the term has yet to reach Reddit yet?
More to the point there have been numerous legitimate studies or real life examples over the years that prove moralfaggotry wrong. What's hilarious though is that you don't even have anecdotal evidence of your own to even attempt a feeble argument in your defense. Unless you want to tell me about the time you helped granny across the street and she called you a good boy as proof that good people exist?
>>318039670
Was going to post this. Glad to see you took care of it. Carry on with your shitposting, rest of the thread.
>>318044840
>My special snowflake of "moralfag" is right and yours is wrong!
Anon... Cmon man this is the third time you've used such a ridiculously stupid argument, are you incapable or learning from your mistakes?
>There have been studies
>I'll add that they're legitimate and completely prove my point, just take my word for it bruh :^)
Oh certainly, and I'm sure they were completely reliable and accurate as well, all without you citing anything specific, I'll just take your word at face value here anon!
Get over yourself, cite a source if you want to refer to one, or don't even bother.
Newsflash faggot, people aren't just one thing, there are plenty of people who are downright moralfags who believe entirely in their sense of morality and adhere to it exclusively, and there's people who take advantage of that shit, your edgy teenage "mankind are all dicks bruh" is exactly that, there's certainly some truth to it but you're ignoring everything contrary to your juvenile world-view.
And you've still yet to explain where there is moralfaggotry in Lord of the Rings which is what this discussion started with, you use a term where it doesn't have any relevance and then act retarded when people get confused, what the fuck are you doing anon?
And god damn man be quicker on replies, I'm not about to spend another half an hour waiting for more of your pedestrian bullshit.
>>318039036
so FF is not an jrpg series? the more you know!
>>318045456
>special snowflake definition
No, you don't get the make the rules here, this has been set in stone on /v/ literally since you were most likely in diapers. You've yet to answer my question about how new you are, because if you clearly don't know what moralfag means by now it's very obvious you just wandered in here from some shithole and act like you own the place. Do you even know who Kenshiro is? Akagi? Any of this? If not keep your mouth shut.
>Legitimately saying 'edgy'
What little credibility you had is void now. Why is this the only buzzword moralfags can ever resort to? For lack of an actual argument I guess.
Also take your pick of real life examples of moralfaggotry being proven wrong, like the Kitty Genovese case, or cases like this: http://nypost.com/2010/04/24/stabbed-hero-dies-as-more-than-20-people-stroll-past-him/
You know what though, you have a point, but not in the way you think you do: there are no absolutes. There's no such thing as pure good or pure evil. They're synthetic constructs. Raping a child has some good elements because it brings pleasure to the rapist. You may find that repulsive (probably not though), but you can't deny it. Making people happy is always seen as an admirable quality right?
>>318041568
>Muh special witcher who is special among the special
False. Giving the fact that witchers are almost extinct, all those who left are somehow unique.
Geral is famous, because he's practically last witcher in service.
>he is a tortured
what does that even mean.
Witcher's world is analogy to medieval times, so most common folks have tough lives.
Witchers are commonly hated or demonized. Which makes perfect sense, humans hate those who are different.
>misunderstood
no
>superhero
it's fantasy settings, magic and supernatural shit is common here
>hero
debatable. Geralt helps the poor, but doesn't want to save the world. He doesn't give a shit about politics.
>who can do no wrong
completely false
Geralt fuck-ups a lot. Read the books.
>has bitches lusting after his superhuman dick
he's badass
bitches love badass guys
>>318046019
>No, you don't get to make the rules here
Oh right, I forgot you claimed that right.
Get over yourself retard.
>This has been set in stone
Allow me to laugh at you, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HOLY SHIT YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT?
Good god man, you're ruining my sides here.
>Do you even know who Kenshiro is? Akagi?
/v/ Video games, feel free to shirk back to /a/ you demented faggot.
>Legitimately saying edgy
As opposed to legitimately saying moralfag? Oh my what a shock to see you have absolutely retarded double standards, what a fucking joke mate.
>I find examples of people being dicks, this means people are exclusively dicks
Right right, and people who run into a fire to save another man's child don't exist, people who go to war to defend the lives of strangers don't exist, devout Christians who legitimately believe and act on their bullshit don't exist. Nope, not at all, because acknowledging their existence wouldn't fit your childish world-view now would it?
>Making people happy is always seen as an admirable quality right?
Stay on topic matey, this is an entirely different can of worms and you aren't even qualified to discuss the current topic, you really can't afford to diversify here.
Again, you can argue that moralfaggotry is a flawed concept, and I would agree, but to act as if there aren't many people who believe it isn't and act on it as such is just completely delusional.
>>318046824
>/v/ Video games, feel free to shirk back to /a/ you demented faggot.
Fuck off faggot.
>>318046953
>Acting on par with bronies and furfags about his fandom
>Pretending not to be a demented faggot
Yea just fuck right off pal.
>>318046824
You keep avoiding my questions. You clearly haven't been on /v/ for long whatsoever to not know about the context of moralfag or identify the two foremost characters involved in it. Then rest of your bullshit I won't acknowledge.
>Right right, and people who run into a fire to save another man's child don't exist
Firemen get paid. It's a job. A well paying one too.
>people who go to war to defend the lives of strangers don't exist
Soldiers tend to be people too stupid to make it in any other field or are dumbfuck redneck 'patriots' fighting in Israel's wars.
Once again this is not an issue of people with devout belief systems, it's about a SPECIFIC TYPE OF BEHAVIOR that /v/ attributes the word moralfag to. What are you finding so difficult to understand here?
Also if you yourself dislike moralfags why are you getting so offended and bent out of shape about me criticizing them?
>>318038180
You pretty much nailed it. You play a character that already exists, not get to make up your own character as you go along. The game even goes down to only have choices that he would make, not necessarily you would make.
>>318038604
Im a huge fallout fan boy. Witcher deserves GOTY
>>318038180
Please don't start using this OP with every fucking RPG. This is like the 3rd time I'm seeing this with a new game
you can like fallout 4, it's fine. so defensive
>>318039425
>He let Keira live
Keira literally prevents a new outbreak of the Catriona plague if she gets her hands on those research notes. Have fun in your world filled with death and disease, just because you decided to hate one sorceress, and why? Distrust? And let me guess, you trust Triss.
Also, if you kill Keira, Lambert dies.
>>318038541
It is not hypocrisy, because the Witcher series has never been renowned as allow you to roleplay as whatever you want.
Unlike Failout 4
>>318047206
>Firemen get paid. It's a job. A well paying one too.
You do know that volunteer firemen exist? People who out of the goodness of their heart train and put their lives at risk in order to help others out.
You might be legitimately retarded.
>>318038180
I have the same problem, anon
I like the witcher, but I like to think that its me in this universe and that's pretty much impossible to do with this game
I hope that the gerald's story is done with this trilogy and their next character has a more open canvas
>>318038180
You roleplay the role of Geralt, you cunt.
>>318047615
>People who out of the goodness of their heart train and put their lives at risk in order to help others out.
Let's assume that's the barefaced truth (and not the more obvious fact they do it to feel good about themselves), what do you think of those people? Do they strike you as particularly intelligent people? Would you aspire to be one? You and I both know the answer. And that's my point.
I never denied moralfags exist, but they're not exactly intellectual superiors or people worth respect. And in fiction they're only more unrealistic, poorly-written and annoying.
>>318040545
But letting Baron die gives the command to his highest ranking officer, who is a raping and alcoholic criminal. You can see the asshole guards extorting protection money and raping peasants afterwards. But they won't pick a fight with you, because they know you are the White Wolf and they know they would die. So there are consequences. Also, Uma is harder to get if the Baron is dead.
And let's not even compare the roleplaying of Witcher to that of 3D-Fallouts. I admit, NV was good but still had shit like in FO4, where you get a quest and your options are
1. Yes
2. Maybe (yes)
3. No (yes)
4. Tell me more (yes)
>>318047206
Let me guess anon, you firmly believe words never change their meaning or that a meaning you and a group of five other shitheads agreed on might not apply.
Fact remains that the definition of moralfag you're hawking here simply does not apply to the concept you were arguing it applied to, so either you're a moron or you're full of shit, take your pick.
>Firemen get paid
I wasn't talking about firemen, how dense are you son?
>Soldiers tend to be people too stupid...
So alturism is stupid? No argument there, but they still exist, hell, such stupidity is arguably far more common than reasonable intellect, so you've once again posed a self-defeating claim, congratulations.
>It's about a specific type of behavior
Certainly, and alturism isn't it, a moralfag is a character who is constantly trying to force his morals on to others as some sacred ideal, Naruto is a prime example of a moralfag in that regard, and that archetype, once more, doesn't exist in LotR, and this entire discussion started with you claiming it did.
>Also if you dislike moralfags
I don't, I acknowledge it's a flawed concept, which doesn't mean I have to dislike them, that'd be quite ridiculous indeed.
>Why are you so bent out of shape
Simply because you're an illogical mess who cannot maintain a consistent argument, and I'm calling you out on your obvious bullshit, the main thing I took issue with is your childishly absolute statements that "moralfag is always bad" which is just silly.
>>318047450
Literally using metagame arguments in an RPG
Anon...
>>318047762
>Fiction exaggerates and idealizes things
More news at 11! What a shocking revelation by retard-kun
>>318047762
I think they are hardworking and kind hearted people. I do aspire to be like that, and I like to volunteer and help out in different ways around my community.
A few days ago I went to an elementary school and taught a class for a day. It was a lot of work, but ultimately it was an enriching experience.
So yeah, you're retarded. And you make shit up about firemen to fit your narrative.
Geralt is a good protagonist because he's torn between the belief in his head that he shouldn't get involved, and the feeling in his heart that he can't just watch shit happen without doing something.
Most of the decisions you make in these games aren't supposed to be about Geralt, but rather the underlying narrative theme of the whole series: choices have consequences. That's why most of the game's epilogues are not about Geralt, but instead about how his decisions and actions shaped the word around him.
There's really only ONE decision in this series that's about Geralt, and of course it's the one that triggers everyone any time it's brought up.
>>318047863
>I wasn't talking about firemen, how dense are you son?
Who were you talking about then?
>a moralfag is a character who is constantly trying to force his morals on to others as some sacred ideal
That's YOUR definition, it does not apply to what /v/ has adhered to for years. You can pretend the definition has changed but it's remained pretty consistent over the years in this case. You can pretend it doesn't to suit your agenda all you want of course.
>Naruto
Get the fuck out.
>So alturism is stupid? No argument there
You'd call me edgy if I had been the one to say that. Nice double standards buddy.
> childishly absolute statements that "moralfag is always bad"
Can you name a well written moralfag character in any form of fiction that's above grade school level?
>>318048165
>Geralt is a good protagonist because he can't make up his mind
You can't be serious, that's undeniably the worst kind of protagonist.
>>318048060
Well in that case one thing both I and >>318047863 can agree on is that you're an idiot.
>>318038180
>butthurt Bethesdumbs grasping THIS HARD at straws
lmao
>>318048210
>Can you name a well written moralfag character in any form of fiction that's above grade school level?
Kenshiro
>>318047863
>So alturism is stupid? No argument there
I love watching two edgelords fight over who's edgier.
>>318038180
What did you expect? Witcher 3 is a shit game that struck gold because of waifu fags and because it's the only franchise where PKeks (most of /v/) don't get shafted. The fanboys who praise this dumpster fire and even call it the best RPG of all time (lol) are worse than the autists who called The Last Of Us the "Citizen Kane of gaming" last gen.
>>318048210
People who, when a house is on fire, react to the situation, you know, human beings confronted with problems don't all run for the hills, some put themselves in danger to help others.
>That's YOUR definition
The irony is rich.
>It does not apply to what /v/ has adhered to for years
That's funny, my own experiences where quite different, you childishly trying to pull some kind of seniority that doesn't actually exist here is just a ridiculous method of trying to force merit on your own personal definition, and it's pathetic.
>You can pretend it doesn't to suit your agenda all you want of course
Awww anon, I wouldn't take that wind out of your sails, you've been doing such a good job of that already!
>Naruto, get the fuck out
>I'm an oldfag who was never exposed to Naruto and it's entirely unreasonable to use this as common ground in an argument when I claim to be a veteran of 4chins
Jesus anon, really?
>You'd call me edgy
Oh? Putting words in my mouth now are we? How mature, what's next buddy?
>Can you name a well written moralfag character in any form of fiction that's above grade school level
Depends on what definition you want to be using here, I'm still struggling to see how "moralfag" applies to LotR here and you keep avoiding the issue, I honestly can't say I've seen the archetype in many stories and I don't particularly enjoy it, but I found Luka from MGQ to be done quite well for a moralfag character.
>>318048396
Calm down pal, you're taking the statement to be far broader than it was intended. It was mainly a claim related to my own experiences where I find "stupid" people to generally be far nicer than "intelligent" people, I still consider alturism to be a good thing, if not flawed, so it's a compliment more than anything.
Still, in practice, I tend to find people who think about a situation are far less likely to be self-sacrificing, for better or worse.
>>318048741
>human beings confronted with problems don't all run for the hills, some put themselves in danger to help others.
Yet you yourself have disdain for these people. So what's your point here? I can acknowledge they exist, but they are clearly very rare and don't represent the predominant attitude of humanity to not jump into fires for no reason.
>That's funny, my own experiences where quite different
Your 'experience' being what? Clearly not /v/ for the past ten years or so, because otherwise you wouldn't be arguing this point.
>Naruto
Get the FUCK out.
>can't think of a good example of a moralfag
So what leg do you have to stand on? Did you type this out knowing it was proving me right?
>there are people on /v/ who actually made Baron hang himself
>>318040520
>this guy
>still copypasting the same exact post without explaining it once.
Autism.
>>318048959
Both of you sound pretty retarded and out of touch with reality.
>>318049356
Other anon here. I can understand his point about changing the story as they actually changed what the Wild Hunt is all about but the cater to biodrones thing seems completely out of place
![HnK 29.avi_snapshot_05.07_[2015.10.03_09.31.56].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2CIXa3t.jpg "HnK 29.avi_snapshot_05.07_[2015.10.03_09.31.56].jpg")
>>318048959
Not interested in your pissing match with Akagi Jr. You can cling to the 'us sociopaths are cool intelligent people and you dumb moralfags are all knuckle-draggers' stereotype all you want. But I do suggest you read up on the long-term benefits of altruistic behavior. In your case I would suggest starting with the research done on monkeys.
>>318049173
>You yourself have disdain for these people
Sorry, I don't, I see no reason to have disdain for these people and only claimed they were stupid, which is hardly an insult unless you find facts arbitrarily insulting.
>Clearly you've not been here!
No true Scotsman eh? What a riot. You still have no actual argument here.
>Naruto
>Get the fuck out
Well, you could have been a bit more mature in admitting you have no counter, but childishly repeating yourself works, I guess.
>So what leg do you have to stand on?
What are you even trying to say here anon? Because I do not enjoy or peruse fiction with moralfag characters good ones cannot exist? What nonsense is that? How is me not knowing an example being proof that you were right in that it was impossible for one to exist?
Really? Things outside your limited perception don't exist? That's the logical conclusion of this rationale and it's just ridiculous, THINK you moron.
>>318049504
>and only claimed they were stupid, which is hardly an insult unless you find facts arbitrarily insulting.
>>318049498
Stop projecting matey, and read what I'm telling you.
Here's a hint: I'm agreeing with you, you massive tool.
>>318049583
No, you aren't.
>>318049575
By all means anon, explain to me why intelligence is a good ideal to pursue and why stupidity is something to condemn.
I'll wait.
I skipped a few posts. How did we get from discussing Witcher to anime?
>>318049583
Honestly the both of you should stop posting.
>>318049661
You're trying too hard now buddy.
Especially from somebody who spends entire threads insulting others intelligence every post.
>>318049665
Some buttblasted /a/ faggot brought up Kenshiro to prove he was "le ebin oldfehg" when he lost an argument.
>>318049741
Oh no I'm quite serious, your arrogant presumptions are the problem here, so feel free to express yourself properly.
>>318048275
yeah dude he shouldn't have any conflict or flaws and should get all the babes and have a wicked motorcycle
>>318049504
>he admires people he considers objectively unintelligent
Well color me surprised. But I know you're boldfaced shitposting at this point so I'm not gonna pretend to be shocked.
Also stop making these desperate excuses for your ignorance. Why can't you just admit you don't know what moralfag means because you just came here this year from Reddit or some other cesspit? Exercise some humility for once in your life.
I asked if you could name some well-written moralfags. You clearly aren't able to do even that much. End of story. Making the assumption 'well I'm SURE there are some good ones out there' without a lick of evidence to that doesn't in any way prove me wrong, especially since I can actually name more shitty moralfags than you can name 'good' ones.
>>318050045
Conflict is fine, but Geralt is simply an indecisive faggot who wants to keep sitting on the fence because he cannot make up his mind, this isn't conflict (or rather, it's bad conflict because it never gets resolved) and it goes nowhere.
>>318049661
>By all means anon, explain to me why intelligence is a good ideal to pursue and why stupidity is something to condemn.
Americans everybody
>>318050130
>he admires people he considers objectively unintelligent
What's wrong with this? They could have other admirable qualities.
>>318050130
>Still trying to maintain that he is le veteran when he was clearly proven wrong repeatedly
Jesus anon, how fucking dense are you?
>He admires people he considers objectively unintelligent
They have admirable traits, intelligence isn't the only merit a human being can have, far from it, and we can value each merit individually without arbitrarily labeling one a more important or valuable.
>End of story
No, you made a shit argument, got called out on how it was shit, and now you're saying "I'm not having this argument I'm right you're wrong" which doesn't even fucking surprise me because that's all you've ever done in this discussion, claiming you're right and when pressed for argument failing utterly.
>Making the assumption "well I'm sure there are some good ones out there" without a lick of evidence is bad
>Making the assumption "well I'm sure there aren't any good ones out there" without a lick of evidence is good
Anon... Jesus Christ man, are you real right now?
>>318050167
That's never been true though, the books especially go out of their way to show he can never stay neutral and straddling the fence never works for him, because at the end of the day his morals always override the Witcher's code of neutrality.
Now in the games obviously its for the player to make choices.
>>318050225
Intelligence is pretty low in attractive qualities. Especially if you're socially inept.
>>318050519
Look, anon, I'm going to have to ask you to pick either the books or the games to discuss here (protip, /v/ Video Games) because both characters are largely different.
>>318050508
>intelligence isn't the only merit a human being can have
Then maybe you should drop calling people stupid constantly to tout your intellectual superiority like it's the be all end all of human worth.
>>318050636
I must type rather quickly and completely change styles if I can samefag all those posts anon, nice try though.
>>318039845
>If it was self defense, I would have understood
Those assholes stabbed him with a pitchfork.
>>318050519
Witchers code is bullshit made up by Geralt so he can use it to don't do certain things that he dislikes
>>318050519
Read up on why he was really called the butcher of blaviken you retarded fuck. This was in the very first book too.
>>318050718
Why? Why should I stop calling people out on stupidity? And why must it mean I'm touting intellectual superiority?
Stop being so fucking defensive you delusional shite, it serves no purpose.
I call people stupid when they are, I do not call them worthless when they're stupid, because that's not the same thing. Stop retardedly condensing complicated matters and acting like it's somehow sensible.
>>318050167
You do realize Witchers have it beaten into them starting from childhood not to get involved with wars and conflicts? And they way normal people treat them only reinforces their apathy, right?
>>318050508
>he was clearly proven wrong repeatedly
In what way was I proven wrong about how long I've been here? Let me ask you, do you know the relevance of this image to moralfag posting? Can you answer that? Do you even know who Akagi was? The tripfag not the character?
If not then shut the fuck up about how long you think you've been here.
>intelligence isn't the only merit a human being can have
You're not even trying anymore.
>and we can value each merit individually without arbitrarily labeling one a more important or valuable.
Means fuckall if you're stupid.
>claiming you're right and when pressed for argument failing utterly.
Speak for yourself. You had to intentionally warp what I originally mean just to go on a tirade about nothing.
>claiming you're right and when pressed for argument failing utterly.
I do have evidence though, I can name a laundry list of shitty moralfags. You can't name a single good one. What are you finding so difficult to comprehend here?
>>318050942
Honestly you and him should stop posting. This sexual tension is too much.
>>318050968
I'm aware, yes, and I fail to see how justification makes bad writing better. Geralt, as a character, is too indecisive and on the fence to be interesting, he behaves erratically and unpredictably, arguably insanely especially when you consider differences in his actions between the three games, and using his schtick that he's an established character does nothing to redeem him. The Witcher as a series would have been far more interesting if we didn't have this self-insert Gary Stu and instead just had a random Witcher, because Geralt as a character just isn't interesting, at all.
>>318050942
Not much point in calling people stupid if you turn around and say there's nothing negative about being stupid, and in fact it's admirable.
>>318050734
>hurr durr what are proxies?
Same posting style too. If you're so secure in your intellectual dominance you shouldn't have to samefag constantly to 'prove' yourself correct.
>>318051247
How do I know you aren't a samefag either?
>>318050863
I think you need to re read that story you dumb cocksucker because Geralt killed a ton of bandits and that one crazy bitch to defend the townsfolk at the expense of his reputation, he literally was not able to stay neutral and walk away and it cost him to do a good deed.
>>318051057
This was never about how long you've been here anon, I frankly don't give a shit, and the hint is in what I've been addressing you as this entire conversation; anon. The who what where why when of YOU is utterly irrelevant, but you keep missing the point like a demented faggot. Even if you've been here since the day it was founded, it doesn't matter, because your claims and experiences are anecdotal at best which is entirely worthless, as well as opposed to my own experiences, you're also a blatant /a/ faggot and you can fuck right off back to your circlejerking over shit anime.
>You're not even trying anymore
You've not given me much reason to, considering how easily your tripe is dismissed.
>Means fuckall if you're stupid
>Citation needed
It's a nice sentiment to be sure, but intelligence doesn't maintain life, as proven by the fact that we don't acknowledge intelligence in the majority of living organisms. You've made a completely retarded claim once again, congratulations, points for consistency.
>Speak for yourself
I have been, think about what you're saying dumbass, I've literally described your own behavior in a post you made, that's not me speaking for you, you utter mongoloid.
>I do have evidence though
You have evidence of bad moralfags you retarded nigger, which has absolutely nothing to do with the absolute statement that it is impossible to write a good moralfag character, I also did give you an example but I guess responding to it was too difficult for you.
>>318051107
I wouldn't dare deprive you of the experience, anon.
>>318051159
If he's too indecisive and on the fence. And makes erratic and unpredictable decisions, that falls on you since you literally control everything he does.
>self-insert Gary Stu
Now you're just regurgitating random bullshit you've read here a million times without even knowing what it even means
>>318049504
>>318050508
That you inherently equate altruistic / compassionate behavior with stupidity is pretty sad.
Witcher 3 was complete fucking garbage
>>318051182
I fail to see any sense in this argument anon, there is no point in calling people out being bad at something if you feel that there is more to life than just that quality?
Could you please spend at least a few seconds thinking things through before you post again, this isn't really worth my time at this rate.
>>318051643
Regardless of your own personal labels, can you argue that it's wrong? I'd love to hear your reasons and I'm open to debate here, so feel free to express yourself in more than petty jabs.
>>318051590
>you're also a blatant /a/ faggot and you can fuck right off back to your circlejerking over shit anime.
What a great argument. Not that I would expect anything less at this point.
> but intelligence doesn't maintain life, as proven by the fact that we don't acknowledge intelligence in the majority of living organisms.
You're aware humans are sentient beings, yes? And not fucking amoeba? Our intelligence and reason is what elevates us above the other animals, though I guess not in your case.
>which has absolutely nothing to do with the absolute statement that it is impossible to write a good moralfag character,
Then why have both of us failed to see one yet? If there are any good ones out there surely at least one of us would've encountered one? Why haven't we?
The rest of your post as usual are the usual ad hominem bullshit self-fellating bullshit.
>>318051873
It's not a personal label or petty jab for him to point out that you think people who selflessly help others are stupid for doing so.
>>318052212
I've explained before that is simply not what I said, at all. My claim was that less intelligent people are more likely to be altruistic, and stupidity and altruism share a parallel, and I have yet to hear an argument to oppose this, just a childish rejection and generalization.
>>318052401
>generalization
Which is exactly what you did.
>>318052401
People would be more inclined to argue with you if you didn't accuse everyone of being childish simpletons right off the bat you know.
>>318038180
Try playing MGSV if you want to be a blank slate with no personality
>>318038180
Just because it's not a good RPG doesn't mean it's not a good game, andfallout 4is a fucking terrible game.
>>318052109
>What a great argument. Not that I would expect anything less at this point
Well, can you blame me for getting down to your level after all this time?
>You're aware that humans are sentient beings, yes?
>The point
>You: "Where the fuck is the point? I can't find it! let's spam some childish platitudes!"
>Then why have both of us failed to see one yet?
Because neither of us enjoy the archetype and aren't about to look for it, and even if we spend our entire lives doing nothing but reading we'd still fail to peruse even 1% of fiction in the world. I mean really, did you need this explained to you? What the flying fuck anon?
>The rest of your post as usual are the usual (redundant much?) ad hominem bullshit self-fellating bullshit (redundant very much!)
This sentence is a fucking pineapple, I'll let you figure out what that means, geniusprickly and irony
>>318052401
There is no connection with stupidity and being nice. And you have yet provide an argument to support your claim that is a gigantic generalization.
Stupid people are more likely to depend on other people than to help. Case and point? You crying to be proven wrong instead of taking any steps at all to prove you're right.
>>318052630
If only that were true anon, you seem to assume I was born yesterday and have never had a recourse in any way but this. It'd be nice if what you said was true, obviously, but experience teaches that it simply isn't.
Am I the only one who finds M/KB horrible in TW3?
Also when are we going to have actual discussion of games instead of just bait threads?
>>318053016
3rd person action game. Plus it was probably designed around using controllers.
>>318052401
Then why are the prisons full of high-school dropouts literally too dumb to make an honest living? Why do high crime rates correspond to population centers of low income and education?
I'm not saying dumb people can't do good deeds or be kind or anything but generally the more productive members of society are not going to be complete dumbasses, in fact it's easy to reach the conclusion that altruistic behavior is beneficial to society or the human race as a whole through simple reasoning that a well maintained society is populated by people helping one another. Not to mention you can argue for the case for biological altruism but that's a different subject really.
Here's an interesting read:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biological/
>>318052542
>A statistical assessment is a generalization
Anon, learn the meaning of words before trying to use them, please.
>>318052852
Hence me explaining the statement comes from my own experience on the matter, which I did not claim was absolute, and never would even imply.
>There is no connection
Citation needed, you simply cannot make this claim
>And you have yet to provide an argument to support your claim that is a gigantic generalization
My claim is largely based on the fact that people are more likely to act selflessly by reflex then when they have the chance to think about it, which has actually been confirmed in countless studies, I forget the exact name but Milsons(?) experiment is a fairly well known one. People will not be assholes by their nature, but can generally be coaxed towards negative behavior, lending credence to my statements.
>Stupid people are more likely to depend on other people than to help
What?
>Case and point? You crying to be proven wrong
Excuse me? When did this happen? I asked people to explain their point with argument rather than petty claims with nothing to substantiate them, you're being rather pitiful in putting words in my mouth that were never spoken, stop jumping to conclusions like a retard on a pogo-stick and we'd be having a much more intellectual discussion here.
>>318053431
>A statistical assessment
Citation needed.
>>318053431
> which has actually been confirmed in countless studies, I forget the exact name but Milsons(?) experiment is a fairly well known one. People will not be assholes by their nature, but can generally be coaxed towards negative behavior, lending credence to my statements.
>I'll add that they're legitimate and completely prove my point, just take my word for it bruh :^)
Oh certainly, and I'm sure they were completely reliable and accurate as well, all without you citing anything specific, I'll just take your word at face value here anon!
Get over yourself, cite a source if you want to refer to one, or don't even bother.
>>318053431
>and I have yet to hear an argument to oppose this, just a childish rejection and generalization.
> I did not claim was absolute, and never would even imply.
Really?
>>318053306
I'm going to have to excuse myself here, I'm simply having too many ongoing conversations to give this the attention it deserves, you bring up a number of related points that each require a well phrased response that I'm just not about to give right now, mainly because I largely agree with what you're saying here, and the problems I have with it being largely semantic.
To get into this we'd need to start discussing philosophical and religious guidance, the definition and purpose of altruism, the advent and reaction to conflict, scarcity and dealing with dilemma, all things altruism cannot deal with.
The main thing I'd point out here is that an altruistic person will sacrifice himself, and a selfish person would not, in times of need and scarcity altruistic people are more likely to sacrifice themselves, saving a person who we'd argue is worse than them, a situation which is undeniably negative, bringing this conversation to the self-destructive nature of altruism.
>>318053667
>Cited a source
>Get told to cite a source
Anon? You okay?
>>318053860
No anon, I'm actually retarded and make absolute statements because I think my perception defines reality!
Fuck off moron, stop assuming everyone is as retarded as you, for a start.
>>318053861
It's alright. You were just going to call me a childish retard or something anyway.
>>318053990
>and make absolute statements because I think my perception defines reality!
I'm glad you're admitting it at least.
Do you know how many endings are in this game? Fuck off
>>318054163
Absolutely sport, glad I could soothe your worries.
>>318054064
Only if I had to.
>>318038180
aren't you able to get to a kind of balance between your own personality and the character's one?
I played through all the game thinking "what would I do if I was Geralt?"
>>318053861
>saving a person who we'd argue is worse than them, a situation which is undeniably negative,
Yeah but negative to whom? Surely not to the people receiving help right? How's this for an example, the entire end sequence of Road Warrior where the dudes from the village sacrifice themselves (and dupe Max) to protect the decoy truck full of sand while the rest of the village takes the gas and flees to the safer territories. To the folks who laid their lives down surely dying know their deaths had a positive impact on the wellbeing of the group wasn't a negative outcome right?
Altruism in it's most extreme cases can be self harming or even destructive but the point is that the participant (don't know what else to call it) willingly makes that decision to endanger or give themselves up because they at least feel they are laying down their lives for something much more important than themselves.
Now, is this REALLY realistic human behavior? I don't know, I know I probably wouldn't do it even in the most dire cases, I generally do think mots people are selfish, but I don't think it corresponds with intelligence so much either way.
Haven't read the thread yet, but how about you read the facking books op?
>>318054654
The main point I raised is a particular one. Say you have a group of ten people, five people want to work together and work hard, and can manage to sustain themselves, they are also entirely altruistic, due to working hard and working together they create sustenance for 1.5 people.
The other five are selfish, do the bare minimum they have to and would rather hoard resources for themselves than save someone else, they provide sustenance for 0.5 people.
This group can provide food for 10 people, just barely, but at some point they encounter a problem causing them to only have food for 8 people to survive, two altruistic people sacrifice themselves, but now the group can only provide food for 7 people, and this keeps spiraling down. It's an extremely simplified example, but altruism and self-sacrifice can often be negative in the long run, simply because self-sacrificing people tend to provide a greater contribution than the people they would sacrifice themselves for (I'm aware I'm generalizing here, though purely for the sake of the argument)
In reality though, altruism is a scale, rarely is someone entirely altruistic and rarely is someone entirely narcissistic, but the fact remains that sometimes doing the right thing "morally" is ultimately the road to the worst outcome for the group as a whole.
>>318052749
>can you blame me for getting down to your level after all this time?
Being a Narutard you were already as low as it could get.
>Implying I missed any point
Missed your shitty point maybe. Intelligence and reason are literally the most valuable attributes for a sapient species to possesses. Not fucking morality, 'niceness' or whatever other trite bullshit you pretend you give a shit about.
>aren't about to look for it,
There are moralfag characters literally surrounding you on a daily basis. Take a look at movies, what do you see? Capeshit up the wazoo. Superheroes are moralfags par excellence. Are ANY of those characters really worth an ounce of actual merit? Absolutely not. Same with video game moralfags, though they've become rare these days so I guess that's a positive.
I don't get why you're determine to drag this out when both of us dislike this archetype and morality in general, you just want to hear yourself talk rather than 'lower' yourself to agree with anyone.
>>318038180
You role play as Geralt.
Literally a Role Playing Game with a defined role. You make the decisions that you think Geralt would make.
>>318055471
I understand you, but can't you also shift the blame to the five selfish people who didn't pull their weight, and when things went wrong (with the five moralfags they thought they were exploiting) they screwed themselves over as a result of their laziness and inaction?
I mean in general any group that lacks solidarity is probably fucked one way or another in the long run because everyone is pulling in separate directions.
Didn't I see a thread where TW3 won GOTY?
>>318055591
>Being a Narutard
Awww look, a childish ad hoc, jumping to retarded conclusions yet again are we kid?
Learn to read you demented faggot, I've explained quite clearly why I brought it up, because if you've been on here as long as you claim to have there's no way you wouldn't know of it since it was a fucking inescapable plague thus using it as an example considering we both would know of it only makes sense. But no, you couldn't understand something so fucking simple and went
>Hurf durf Narutarddduuurrrrr
>I didn't miss the point, you just didn't have a good one!
Yea, exactly what you'd say if you missed the point and didn't want to admit it, color me shocked once again.
Intelligence does nothing for you, it doesn't keep you alive, and doesn't contribute to your survival, as, once again, demonstrated by the fact that most living organisms aren't attributed intelligence, so tell me faggot, what "value" does intelligence have? What purpose does it serve? Can you name one thing that isn't an arbitrary "it sets us apart from the animals!" Big fucking deal, why is it important for us to be a separate category? That, once more, serves no purpose. You're just spouting juvenile platitudes once again.
>Take a look at movies
Jesus anon I haven't seen any movies in at least two years, same for books now that I think of it, I haven't been perusing recreational fiction for quite some time now, and all you have for ammo is "you've not looked for it so it doesn't exist"
And again, we've been over this, I do not dislike the archetype, nor do I like it, but not liking it does not mean I dislike it, that's nonsense, I simply don't care for the archetype, and I find morality to be inherently contradictory and an arbitrary human construct as I adhere to determinism philosophy, but that doesn't mean I cannot acknowledge the merit and influence of the illusion of choice and the idea that we can somehow choose and affect consequences which must then follow morality.
>>318056030
Regardless, if the altruists chose to whom to save based on merit and rationale there would be a thriving group of at least 8 people by the end of the scenario.
I guess in the end all I did was argue against extremism though.
>>318056521
>if the altruists chose to whom to save based on merit and rationale
Who's to say they wouldn't? What if they actually left the selfish folks to their own devices? Altruism doesn't necessarily have to be all encompassing to everyone you know, I mean, if you were faced with saving a bus full of school children, and a bus full of hardcore prison inmates, for most people there wouldn't be any dilemma, you would save the kids. If in this scenario the altruists just said 'fuck you lazy bastards, if you don't pull your weight we're not sticking our necks out for you' then chances are only those five selfish people would feel the negative effects.
>>318056548
Really now, instead of childish prattling why not share with the class what intelligence has done for you anon, because so far it doesn't seem to help you even win an argument.
Hell, the fact that you just outright abandoned the argument and went with juvenile shitposting to gain any ground here would be proof that even you realize that intelligence in your own case is entirely inadequate, or would you actually claim your post here was intelligent?
Give it up kid, you're entirely outclassed here and this discussion has done nothing but prove it, I grow tired of reading your drivel and swatting it down, it's dull, it's boring, at least amuse me with less stereotypical stupidity god damnit.
>>318056356
>Intelligence does nothing for you, it doesn't keep you alive, and doesn't contribute to your survival
I know you want to see how far this guy is gonna take this but you're playing your hand way too much now
>>318056821
Well, hence my admitting that all I really did was argue against extremism, wherein extremely altruistic people sacrifice themselves for the sake of others regardless of context.
Point ultimately does remain though, that reasoning and logic is what leads to the best result, not narcissism or altruism, which brings me back to my core argument, relying on altruism instead of logic and reasoning is something I would attribute to "stupid" people, as it is a good method that does work for them, and while it does have problems (everything does, rationale for example can take too much time and is prone to human error, manipulation etc.)
>>318057225
But my friend, you seem to be disregarding the fact you can reconcile the two,
early philosophers like Aristotle identified two types of thinking - Logic, and 'Moral Reasoning', both of which were given equal importance. Logic was necessary to determine what was and was not, the facts of existence. Moral Reasoning was necessary to determine the best course of action for the majority of people based on what could be understood via logic.
Now, if you don't mind asking, would you consider yourself 'amoral'? Not judging, just curious. In which case, let me ask, what do you consider the 'common good' and the best means to pursue it?
>>318057440
Well, that's pretty much the point I was trying to make all along here, that there are different methods and motives for action, and I argue that some work better for others. Rationale requires intelligence to work, altruism is more simple and arguably more reliable due to not so much pressure on matters prone to human error, existence is conflict so a degree of narcissism is also required to separate yourself from your competitors.
As to whether or not I consider myself moral? I honestly cannot say, as I cannot quite make up my mind on the matter. I am chronically ill and could not provide for myself, and me taking those resources I require to live over people who are starving while not needing those same means is inherently narcissistic, and contradictory to what I personally consider moral, hence I would say I consider myself amoral in that regard. Beside that however, I would say I'm altruistic in that I would help others at my own expense, to a limit of course, with reasonable consideration behind it that this behavior justifies and counteracts the narcissism of my own survival (the accuracy thereof being debatable, of course).
