Seriously, what the fuck is up with american game translators censoring and changing stuff? Pic related is an excerpt of an interview with NickyD, NISA localization editor.
Does this shit happen in medias other than gaming as well in America? Jesus Christ, these numerous changes being made by someone that isn't part of the original creative team woudn't fly where I live.
Tell me, why do you take this kind of bullshit, my american friends?
>>317466550
>why do you take this kind of bullshit
Because we care enough to complain but don't care enough to spend hours learning moonrunes.
Literally nothing wrong with either of those. Language is about culture and intent - translation is not about replacing text word for word like some sort of math equation.
Holy fucking shit this is disgusting.
They're translators. Fucking translators. You don't get to change something because "I have a better idea". If you have a better idea then make your own fucking game.
Holy fucking shit I'm furious.
>>317466550
>>317466921
>I LIKE MY JAPANESE WAIFUS SO EVERYONE THAT ISNT FROM JAPAN SHOULD LIKE JAPANESE SHIT IN THEIR GAMES
You're a retard and on top of that, weaboo trash.
>Esty Dee
Someone post the NISA pastebin.
ITT: Weaboos.
>>317466550
>Jesus Christ, these numerous changes being made by someone that isn't part of the original creative team woudn't fly where I live.
Would the game even be allowed in your country in the first place Bruce?
Fuck terrible localization.
>>317466859
>>317467081
But when the game, for instance, was made, it was made with a certain intent. When you alter that, why even bother bringing the game over? Why not just create a new one, with the intent you deem fit for that culture?
Isn't the point of bringing over a foreign product or service to give people a taste of a different culture, something that can't be found in their motherland? Aren't you essentially denying that by changing it to fit your own culture?
We have to stop them, /v/. They can't stop getting away with this...
>>317466837
Whats the deal with that pic
It's not censorship, look up what censorship means. Censorship is when the government stops you.
Localization is simply removing problematic elements that may cause harm to vulnerable groups.
>>317467485
Source
>>317467485
Europeans like and appreciate art because they're intelligent. That kind of thing triggers Americans because of their inferiority complex. They feel insulted by it, so their characters have to act like a museum is BORING to be likable.
>>317467081
This
>WTF THEY REMOVED OBSCURE CULTURAL REFERENCES THAT ONLY JAPS WOULD UNDERSTAND
>NOW HOW WILL I KNOW THAT THE CHARACTERS MEANT TO REFER TO THE CHING CHONG NIP NONG SHRINE IN THE KYOTO PREFECTURE DESU ~
Weebs make me fucking sick
>>317467525
Considering how the people who are localising the games are under the company who actually made the game, there's literally no such thing as censorship going on when they're the ones willingly changing it for the better.
>>317467081
Bait
>>317467485
That's insane. What game?
>>317467485
The NoA version is funnier, especially after the Art vs Science Splatfest.
The funny thing is /v/ will insist that games are not art, just to spite SJWs
But then a game gets censored and they all flip their shit. Well if it's not art, it's just a product, and as such should be treated as a product, which only exists to generate sales, and if censorship will lead to more sales, it should be censored.
After all, we can't claim games are art, right? because then strawmen you don't like will "win" and you'll "lose" right?
Continue pushing the ideal that games are not art all you want, but don't come crying when that results in games being nothing other than a means to earn cash. You can't have it both ways you contrarian fucks.
learn japanese
cut out the middle man
>>317467525
>Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
>Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of their own works or speech, it is called self-censorship.
>>317467081
>>317467262
>Play Japanese waifu shit
>Complain that it's Japanese waifu shit, and about the intended audience protesting unnecessary, unneeded and unwanted changes
You're only complaining, because you want this type of game to cease to exist, not because you have any stake in the matter. The fans of these games complain, because they know normalfags and the "wider audience" aren't gonna buy weeb shit, because the SJW put memes and censored it for them. If the intended audience who knows exactly what they're getting doesn't buy the game due to meme translations and censorship, the game flops, and the publisher would cease any effort of bringing it overseas.
These retarded American localizers are literally actively sabotaging their livelihood by pushing the boundaries of what the niche audience of their game is willing to put up with.
>>317467485
There are way way way worse examples in Splatoon. The joke is the same in both versions. Just told differently.
>>317466550
It almost sounds like the translator wanted to make a game but he was shit so he "improved" someone else's because ideas guy wasn't a real job.
>>317466550
Do you genuinely think that this is localized to American translations from Japanese videogames and that's the extent of it? How fucking retarded can you get?
>>317467654
>>317467485
>yurop version isn't about the actual museum
>implying there's a difference
>>317467507
>men like cream pie
>>317467507
Underage detected.
>>317467679
>>317467081
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be playing japanese games in the first place if you don't want to be exposed to japanese culture?
>>317467812
Oh look, a gibbygipper.
>>317467081
So you're perfectly fine with this.
I hate that localization has become a dirty word. It's just like the word "feminist" nowadays. Morons that don't know what they're doing take it for themselves and ruin it for people that actually know what it means.
>>317467820
So?
Weebs should all die and all weeb games are ireedemable trash. There's literally zero weeb games worth playing.
Killing them all off is a good thing.
>>317467485
Both versions have Marie making a joke about the interesting parts being anything but the exhibits. America is just being way more blunt about it. Pretty lame.
>>317467485
>European version is subtle
>American version is just the joke made clear so everyone understands [APPLAUSE]
Every time
>>317468003
>I don't like it so it must be wrong
grow the fuck up
>>317467742
Nope, the joke is better in the NoE version because it's a direct translation. Censor apologist detected.
>>317467403
The point of bringing over a foreign product or service is to make money. If changing things to appeal to the different market can make it make more money then guess what they're going to do?
>>317468058
You gotta catter to your audience, especially when they're retarded like the majority of america.
>>317467826
The NoE joke sounds way more sarcastic than the "LMAO idiot kid" NoA version.
>>317468125
Please don't tell my mom...
>>317466550
Americans changing the world into something that better fits their ideals? Americans would never do that, they're not that self-centred and are certainly not filled with that degree of self importance.
>>317468003
gamergators like you are worse than SJWs in every single way because you faggots won't shut up on /v/ about this shit.
>>317467104
http://pastebin.com/s8bPQadr
>>317466550
Localization is supposed to efficiently draw parallels between different cultures so these niche game fans don't feel forced to actually go to these countries only to learn about one or two jokes. You're in a magical vidya world full of dragons and zombies, you don't need to drop the game every time someone mentions a takoyaki or a kotatsu.
The problem is that since niche games don't sell as much as companies want, they think that by forsaking this small niche audience in favor of the broad lowest common denominator will bring them more sales, and the only way to do that is to make it suitable for ALL audiences.
and you know what happens when you try to please everybody.
>>317468030
Then why the fuck are you here you literal fucking retard, Do you go to gay forums and complain why every one around is gay? Do you go t sub saharan African and complain how everyone is a nigger? Do you go to England, and complain how everyone is a paki?
This isn't a thread about putting weeb shit into your mobas or whatever gay ass shit kids play these days. It's about weeb shit confined to weeb games.
>>317467897
wat
>>317467857
No, I'm just saying this wouldn't happen where I live. Considering America is all about freedom, one would think this wouldn't happen there, of all places.
>>317467654
jesus anon it's a joke, calm your tits.
either way neither is relevant unless you post the JP version as well to compare the two.
You flaseflaggers need to realize how much damage you are doing.
Please reconsider. You are not even having any fun with your shitposting.
>>317468162
>Catter.
I mean all you had to do is spell a 5-letter word correctly to not look retarded yourself, and you couldn't even do that.
>>317468180
>REEE GAMER GATE
the only one talking about gamergate and SJW is you. I'm talking about localization adding shit for no reason.
>>317468216
>Do you go to England, and complain how everyone is a paki?
kek
>>317468216
4chan has always been anti weeb. I've been here since 2008 and everyone always hated the shit out of japan. 4chan invented weeaboos as a word for a reason you know. To make fun of people who likes anything from japan.
This is why every japan-centric games and platforms gets shitposted to death on /v/. Maybe you should move back to reddit? That's the only place where weebs are welcome
>>317468286
when hillary wins in 2016 every single one of you manbaby fucks will be put in camps
>>317467979
What the fuck are you talking about, anon.
I don't give a quarter of a fuck where a game comes from so long as it's a good game.
I don't play Witcher to learn about Polish culture, I don't play Stalker to learn about Russian culture, and I don't play Ubisoft games to learn about French culture.
A well written game doesn't go up its own ass with obscurities and in-jokes, that's just shitty game design. And yet this is what these weeb games do constantly. Nobody but welfare leeches like yourself give a quarter of a fuck.
If you think NISAs problem is shitty translation than you probably never had your PS3 fried by one of their gamebreaking bugs.
>>317468003
Considering ze is used a lot in there, I'm thinking the use of hir is just to have the word be pronounced a bit differently, like the one speaking that has an accent.
>>317468287
Yeah, English is my 3rd language, it's not perfect so yeah I made mistake, I must be as dumb as those mmuricans that can't even learn a single language properly, right?
>>317468003
How about you fuck off goobergater? You lost. There's nothing wrong with ze and hir anyways, how about you stay up with the modern times?
>>317466550
In theory, most of that other than change lines(for reasons other than "this wouldn't make sense in english) isn't that off. Pretty normal stuff. A name like Viorate, for example - written in katakana, it's almost a given it's not supposed to be literal, but just being spelled phonetically. A translator would have a logical choice of Violet, or Violate. Which makes more sense in context?
That said, that interview is with fucking nick doerr. He's the worst kind of cancer editor who really does make up whatever the fuck he wants and thinks sounds lulzy. The guy shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a script in any form of media.
>>317468291
That was the original intent, you dumbfuck. Those things were referred to as "he/she" in the original version.
>>317467403
It's literally the opposite.
It's not about bringing a culture home, it's about translating a work to a different culture.
There are exceptions, of course, like when the subject matter is deeply intertwined with a particular historical context. Those are the trickiest ones. But colorful Japanese stuff that has literally zero influence in the interpretation of the work in question? That's not what you do when you have to bring it to the general public.
Literally every translator learns this.
Source: I'm an English translation major.
>>317468338
>liking japanese games automatically makes you a weeaboo who likes anything from Japan
yup, literally hitler
>>317466550
>"I may change lines entirely because I feel I personally have a better idea"
>That butchered kana pronunciation
>>317468003
horshit, Ill never buy again from them
>>317468186
My God, how do they keep getting away with this shit? Do you guys seriously keep buying NISA games after all this crap? I'd rather not have their japanese games if it meant NISA would get the message that doing that is not ok.
>>317468415
English isn't my first language either... But usually when I insult people in their native tongue, I try to do it properly. Eyes up.
>>317466550
The localization industry is packed with ex-fansubers that think anyone gives a shit about their shitty jokes or opinions over what the creators put in the game. All you can really do is either not support the product or let them know in a civil manner changes like that affect your purchase decision.
>>317468515
Most people on 4chan have absolutely no idea how translation actually works. Arguments about this shit are pointless because get their knowledge of translation from other retards on the board.
>>317468551
There is a reason nep 2 and 3 sold like shit on steam.
>>317468349
Really just look at yourself.
>>317467485
>Europoors confirmed being fat fucks
>>317468058
>the EU version
>subtle
Daily reminder Yuropoors have shitty upper level education yet love to smell their own farts on a daily basis. They're basically a collective of just that pretentious faggot from college, you know the one.
>>317468415
Let's get this shit started.
>>317468515
You are a shit translator then.
>>317468209
Then they go on to blame said niche audience for not biting the bullet and supporting the product when no one else will, the same product that was deliberately altered to appeal to everyone else, BUT them.
>>317468338
Of course you've been here since 2008, your kind of trash has swarmed internet communities in 2007 like the refugees are swarming Europe in . Weaboo used to actually mean something, but your type of faggotry showed up desperately trying to fit in with the other lejun retards calling everything even remotely Japanese weaboo. You seem to be confused, reddit is precisely the place you long for. All the memes, /v/ culture, and anonymous lejun trash that got attracted you here in the first place, without any of the icky, problematic weaboo trash that your tumblr friends shun you for.
>>317468515
Then you are a pretty shitty one because as a translator myself you should know you don't change names they are not up for interpretation. Actually pretty much your entire post is retarded you should apply for a job with Nintendo of America.
It's not censorship, it's capitalism.
Where are all the adult films nowadays? Why is there no blood in new Die Hard movies? Censorship? No, it's the rating system. Studios are ALLOWED to make bloodbath movies, but they don't, because lower ratings means more $$$$$$. They didn't stop making bloody movies like Robocop because of a social justice outcry, they didn't do it because they felt it was the right thing to do, they didn't do it because of pressure from the government. They did it for the cash. And the same is happening with Nintendo right now.
Oppose it if you want, I'd even join you in opposing it, if the entire debate wasn't constantly being hijacked by FUCKING RETARDS who want to cry about liberals and SJWs yet again as if we didn't get the fucking message 12 months ago.
>>317468209
>so these niche game fans don't feel forced to actually go to these countries only to learn about one or two jokes
That's the problem, though. When you watch a japanese movie set in Japan, you don't expect the japanese people to have big eyes, eat hamburgers, talk about LA and Avengers, NBA, guns etc because you'd feel left out if they didn't. You expect to watch the story a different culture produced and it's your call to learn more about that culture if you want to get the whole picture.
Why do games need to change? Movies (as explained), books and music don't, so why should games?
>>317468732
>I can't actually argue against any of these points so I'll just round them up and ridicule them
>>317466550
>Makaron became Macaroon
Okay. That's cute. I can live with that.
>adding spice to my meals
But does everyone like your kind of spices?
>sometimes I'll add a line
What?
>At points I may change lines entirely because I feel I have a better idea
Fuck off.
Just
Fuck right off and die.
Why has this become such a thing in the last year or so to be complained about here? This has been happening for 30+ years.
I'm not saying people can't complain now because it's been happening forever but why has it suddenly become the thing to complain about despite always being around?
>>317468732
>>317466550
If you like jap shit that much, why don't you just read the moonrunes?
>>317468551
I refuse to buy anything NISA touches and I actively try to warn people by posting that pastebin around when I get the chance.
I haven't gone to the disgaea PC steam forum since I posted it there but I wouldn't be surprised if I got banned from it for trying to tell people to not support this shithole of a company
>>317467081
>>317467679
>I'm going to buy a Japanese game but I don't want any Japanese stuff in it.
>You shouldn't have any Japanese stuff either
Do you realize how fucking retarded this makes you sound? This is like going to the ocean and complaining how wet it is.
>>317468649
It's kinda sad because they get hung up on minutiae while missing the general picture.
Translation is not a zero-sum game or a mathematical equation. It's actually a creative work on the part of the translator. And there's a lot of factors that get involved into it, first and foremost being the target audience.
Which is the reason why certain Japanese developers can deal with using localization teams that pander more to weebs -- they're not looking to target the general audience. But when that thing needs to go out to the general public? Of course you have to change things.
>>317468745
That's so far from true it's not even funny. There are entire bodies of old, classic translated works in Spanish and other major languages that have translated names. These are considered some of the best translations in history.
A lot of goofy Japanese names sound very, very awkward in English. It's only natural to want to translate them when your target audience is a general English speaking country.
>>317468789
>companies are allowed to do anything they want, so you MUST shut up and never criticize it, but you still OWE them your money nonetheless so pay up, goyim!
nice pasta BTW
>>317468846
Little kids who have had their """eyes opened""" by GG fully believe that liberals are a brand new threat the world has never seen before and who must be stopped before the gain power. There are kids on /v/ who honestly believe liberals never existed before tumblr
>>317468805
Phoenix Wrights hilarious butchering of anything remotely japanese aside - how would you handle the names? Almost every name there is a pun that only works in japanese.
It's one of the rare cases where changing names for the international release isn't a terrible idea.
>>317468846
Australians are mad everything banned so they spend their time calling other countries prudes.
>>317468412
It's not, it's because Moogles don't have defined genders, so a SJW in the localization team decided to use those terms.
>>317468402
>I don't give a quarter of a fuck where a game comes from so long as it's a good game.
Then why are you complaining about Japanese culture in the Japanese game?
Fucking retard.
> I don't play Stalker to learn about Russian culture, and I don't play Ubisoft games to learn about French culture.
Complaining that the Japanese game might have Japanese stuff in it is like complaining that Stalker has Russian stuff in it or that Ubisoft games are centered around French culture.
Then demanding that those things get removed because "I don't like it".
Shithead.
>>317468515
There's a pretty sharp seperation between translation and localisation(though a translator who's also highly skilled in english, tends to do both as a matter of course, and they just get conflated.)
Translation is conveying as exact a meaning as possible. Localising is tweaking the content for a different culture.
If your school isn't teaching you the difference between the two concepts, I'd bring that up with your prof.
I'm done /v/ I give up fighting the censorship apologists. Their tired rhetoric is so insane, you can't reason with these people.
The only thing I have left is to become violent with them. Gathering when?
>>317468338
>I've been here since 2008
I highly doubt that. /a/ and /v/ were very close boards in 2008-2010. You would have killed yourself from the amount of weebshit that you would have seen.
>>317468908
>I WANT SHRINE MAIDENS AND PANTY RAIDS IN MY SUPER MARIO BROS
fucking moefags
>>317468848
>unironically censoring the image
lmao
>>317467485
>American version
>The real world is much more must see than whats in the museum
>Europoor version
>Hyuck yuck lets go waste our money on shit and eat shit food that'll turn us into fat pieces of shit with terrible teeth
Sounds about right desu senpai.
>>317468848
>I am so buttblasted that all my arguments can be summed up in one image that I made a counter-image to cover to the fact that I only have two maybe three arguments.
Go on, tell us how "It's icky" or "It will sell better" or "I want it to cater to my tastes" are good arguments for censoring a game.
Go on you cocksucker.
>>317467485
>yuropeen joke is subtle
>murrigan is JOKE IN YOUR FACE
>START CLAPPING NOW
They know their audience
>>317469020
Except I still like japanese games you retard.
I just hate weebshit. Get your facts straight.
>>317468789
>It's capitalism
>BAWW WHY AREN'T YOU SUPPORTING OUR GAME YOU WORTHLESS PIRATES
>GAMEU NO SERRU? GUESSU GAIJIN NO WANTU GAMEU
Censorship in something the name "Final Fantasy" is understandable, as that will sell on brand alone. However, when you fucking censor some of the most obscure trash on the market that barely sold enough to break even in Japan, just to please the egos and PC sensibilities of the liberals on the localization staff, it's no longer a matter of capitalism. A lot of the smaller Japanese publishers and developers are completely forsaking the western market, due to being paired with a localization company not even remotely interested in selling the product.
>>317469013
>There's a pretty sharp seperation between translation and localisation
There's actually not.
>Translation is conveying as exact a meaning as possible. Localising is tweaking the content for a different culture.
This is wrong.
Translation IS localization. It's not a zero sum game. Stop talking about things when you have no idea how they work.
>>317466550
>How should we translate this characters way of speaking?
>Have them talk in a rough old style?
>End their sentences with Nin?
>Just translate it normally?
No fuck that lets add Zam to the end of every sentence. Also pile on the dank memes.
NISA is a joke and always has been, their anime subs are hilariously enough the worst in the goddamn industry and make fucking gg look professional.
>>317468848
He is right though. All those arguments are retarded. Only acceptable reason for censorship is the situation where the content is against the law.
>>317469017
the more rabid you get, the more they'll laugh at you
but if you shut up and back off, you're giving them exactly what they want
checkmate, atheists
>>317469123
Forgot my image like a retard
>>317468745
You do change names if it'll help make them sound more natural or otherwise fitting. Ideally it's done with the original creator's input, but most companies are pretty shit at translation support, so you're on your own more often than not.
>>317468515
Congratulations for being part of the problem.
>>317468815
>I'm so buttblasted that my arguments are so thin and sterile that I'll throw a fit about someone putting them in an image instead of trying to come up with better arguments.
Want to tell me how it's better for me? Huh? Like you somehow know what I want better than myself?
Because that's what you censorship faggots always do, right? Assume you know what is better for everyone?
>>317468916
>It's actually a creative work on the part of the translator
Please die.
>>317468209
This is a bullshit argument every faggot kid these days has a smartphone they can look this shit up immediately. If you are playing games like this and don't know what a kotatsu is then it seems you made a big mistake anyway.
>>317468916
My native language is spanish. Really spanish is the worst language when it comes to translations. Fuck those motherfuckers that translate Prince Philip as Principe Felipe.
>>317467785
I like how this comment was completely ignored, even though it basically points out the hypocrisy in this fucking board.
Stay classy /v/
>>317469174
A bunch of those arguments aren't even apologising about it happening, they're just general statements.
IF you think cultural differences don't exist or that companies don't have the freedom to change their own product then you're a fucking retard.
>>317469121
I'll say your own words back to you. The two concepts are distinct, and both part of the process.
>>317469193
"The problem", my friend, is that you cannot possibly fathom the fact that there are people out there that know very little about Japanese culture and these devs would like to sell things to them.
>>317469215
It is as real as it gets. The fact that you don't understand that you have to CREATE the work in a different language means you are literally completely ignorant in the ways of translation. If it wasn't, we'd all be using Google Translate and we'd be done with it.
>>317469107
>I just hate weebshit
Do you even know where you are?
Neo /v/ is real.
>>317468338
Why do the ones blatantly pretending to know what this board was like at anytime in the past always use 2008 as a reference. The ones that were actually here know you are full of shit.
>pretending video games are this serious
Lol at your life
>>317469123
>>317469185
No, but you should like it though.
Look! Here's a retard that will explain it all for you!
>>317468515
See? Funny memes and stupid in-jokes are about 'bringing the culture home'. That's why Apollo has to eat hamburgers and Indians must become cowboys.
It's to bring the culture home, you uncultured swine. Now laugh at my funny reddit joke.
>>317469121
You are a fucking retard.
Translation IS NOT localization
>>317469364
Fuck off already you piece of shit you are part if the fucking problem, no wonder translations suck ass these days.
>>317468815
>>317468848
>being this mad over petty stuff meant to be silly
Your kind of people really don't get what 4chan is all about. I hope I never end liek you, ever in my life.
>>317469223
>If you are playing games like this and don't know what a kotatsu is then it seems you made a big mistake anyway.
>every faggot kid these days has a smartphone they can look this shit up immediately.
the point isn't about one or two specific words, it's about literally anything that's common only to people who live in Japan.
>>317469107
Are you retarded did you not even read your own post between your blatant shitposting?
>>317469369
This.
Two years ago literally no one would be defending censorship of ANY kind.
Yet, here we are on Reddit and Neogaf's established colony of Neo-/v/.
I bet some newfaggot with shit in his pants is going to reply to this with "BUT 4CHAN WASN'T ALWAYS ABOUT JAPANESE CULTURE!"
>>317469364
You dont get to create shit you fucking bastard, the reason we dont use google translate is because google translate sucks ass and cant translate most things as it ignores context.
>>317469364
>these devs would like to sell things to them
And yet it shows over and over that these people don't give a fuck about these weird japanese games. Meanwhile you pisses off the actual audience into not wanting to support you.
Well done.
>>317469359
The thing is, my friend, there's no point in separating them, because you cannot have "translation" without "localization". Part of the translation process, no matter how "close" you want to make it to the source material, involves localization from the translator to some degree.
What people don't actually get is that there are DEGREES OF TRANSLATION. And they vary depending on your target audience. The complete lack of empathy from people here shows their emotional maturity to an astounding degree.
>>317468958
No one's complaining about the missing puns and honorifics, that's what localization is meant to solve. The problem lies in the faggot staff using the localization gig as an outlet for their failed writing career, to make a joke to their friends, or to push a political agenda. Localized shows aimed for kids in America still to this very day censors shit like fucking sushi that is probably being sold across the street from the fucking kids watching the show.
>>317469436
>lol it's only a joke
Why aren't you saying that to the people getting mad as fuck over the counterimage?
>>317469509
Fuck off already.
>>317468657
They didn't sell badly. Not to mention that currently they have nothing to do with NISA.
>>317468551
NISA has its own set of apologists who keep on sucking everything that oozes from them no matter how bad it is.
What was the name of that one guy who bought dozens of Mugen Souls to help NISA out clearing the stock?
>>317468916
>It's kinda sad because they get hung up on minutiae while missing the general picture.
That's the problem when explaining translation work to the general public. People really don't get that looking up a word in the dictionary won't give them the whole picture.
>>317469486
You're obviously a child or are unacquainted with what a creative process is.
>>317469491
Evidently not since there are plenty of people who bought the old 90s RPGs with tons of localization "changes"!
>>317469324
a company's freedom to change the product doesn't exempt it from criticism.
this product won't stay with them, they're going to sell this shit to customers so they can criticize it all they want.
using this defense of "but the company is free to do whatever they want with it, stop complaining" against customers is basically a way to shame them into shutting up and forcibly buying that shit.
>>317469509
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>317468958
You leave it in people are not buying these games to hear American jokes you very concept is asinine.
>>317468958
Between having jokes lost in translation (stuff that I COULD learn about if I wanted to) and having new jokes created by someone other than the original creative team, I'd take the first option every time.
>>317469542
>Why aren't you saying that to the people getting mad as fuck over the counterimage?
Not him, but the fact someone was mad enough to make a 'counterimage' instead of disproving the original image is proof enough that someone got seriously buttblasted over it.
>All these angry weebs
you don't even belong on this board.
>>317469581
And you are a shit translator that makes up shit instead of your job.
>>317468338
>4chan has always been anti weeb.
>>317469562
>Nep 1 ~ 180 sold
>Nep 3 ~ 10k sold
Yep. Doing just fine.
>>317469121
Wow posting doge images and being completely fucking wrong in everything you say its like pottery.
>>317468815
>>317468848
>tumblr told me to use this argument in this situation!
busted, buster
/v/ - censorship apologists
I think Im done with this shit board. Enjoy your dudebro audience.
I really wish these /v/ wasn't so focused on this,there is no point to all these threads as it is always the same exact arguments that never go anywhere because no one changes their opinion on /v/. I just want varied discussion again
>>317469663
The thing is, "making up shit" is what you have to do when the translated text is not even there in the first place. YOU have to make it. It's a creative process.
Why is this a hard concept to grasp?
I guess it's because you're underage. Don't worry, you'll learn.
>>317468846
>it's been happening for 30+ years so it's ok if it continues to happen forever
Never has someone been more objectively wrong than you right now, my man.
>>317469581
>Evidently not since there are plenty of people who bought the old 90s RPGs with tons of localization "changes"!
>p-people bought 90's RPGs, that counts for modern RPGs in the era of the internet, right?
They bought 90's RPGs because there was literally no other choice. Nor was there free and wide access to the internet to know any better.
Got a funny facebook dog that represents your stupidity?
>>317466550
>Change Makaron into Macaroon because it's the name of a cookie
>Macaron is already the name of a cookie and sounds way cuter
Nigger doesn't know shit about pastry
>>317469728
>/v/ - censorship apologists
More like only Nintendofags are apologists.
>>317469743
Why are you still here do you really think Im even going to read your shit anymore?
Im a good translator, I never have to make up anything.
You are a shit translator.
>>317468848
Hey man, why did you censor that image with your text all over it? Why not just write that below what's already written? Seems like you wanted to suppress what was there in the first place because you didn't agree with it.
>>317468916
>It's actually a creative work on the part of the translator.
As someone who has worked in the industry, no, it isn't.
You do that in any other part of the media industry and you are on the short list to get blacklisted unless you were specifically asked to localize.
The most blatant case I read about a translator getting creative and completely butchering the translation was the original run of Game Of Thrones in Italy where the translator decided to make it "more fantasy" and changed the direwolf being killed by a stag with it being killed by a unicorn amongst others.
This isn't to say localization don't have a place but it should be clearly noted/noticeable then (see Phoenix Wright) but a professional shouldn't mix the two
tl;dr: Feel free to continue to pay and defend people in the industry being talentless hacks.
>>317469654
>GET OFF THIS BOARD 4CHAN IS FOR AMERICAN CULTURE
Neo-/v/.
What's funny is that you probably don't realize that weeb culture is what caused /v/ to get made in the first place: To keep video game talk out of /a/.
>>317469673
Nigga they didn't release the same day. Nep 2 has been out for half the time and has half the sales of Nep 1 currently.
>>317469743
>Direct translation of a joke
Is translating the joke.
>Making the joke sensible for the audience the product gets localised for
That's localisation.
How is it that both of these are supposedly the same?
>>317469581
But that is the thing. I would like to think that we have moved on from the 90s and the shitshow that was the shoddy fast translations of games.
But now instead of bad translations, we are getting whatever people at the translation company find funny tacked on instead.
Are they just translating to their own culture? Then what about all the other countries with english speaking people who buy the games? Now they just changed it from one thing they supposedly don't get, to another cultural reference they don't care about.
>>317468908
You're seriously the biggest faggot/retard I've ever met on these forums if you can't differentiate between general cultural knowledge and the kind of obscure garbage that most weeb games make reference to, often in the form of 'if you don't get this callback to some random folk tale that only the lepers of Okinawa understand, then this entire piece of dialogue means nothing to you'.
It'd be like if American made games constantly refered to specific locations or events that are only relevant to our country, yet we somehow expect the other countries that get the game to just know what it's talking about. Limiting a form of media by these lines is retarded financially and critically.
Stop defending shitty writing, anon.
>>317468789
>Oppose it if you want, I'd even join you in opposing it, if the entire debate wasn't constantly being hijacked by FUCKING RETARDS who want to cry about liberals and SJWs yet again as if we didn't get the fucking message 12 months ago.
This. I've had enough cringe crusade shit to last me the rest of my life.
>>317466921
>Holy fucking shit this is disgusting.
>They're translators. Fucking translators. You don't get to change something because "I have a better idea". If you have a better idea then make your own fucking game.
>Holy fucking shit I'm furious.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2015-11-18/.95476
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=9704
>as a company, we did not want NISA to release or be known for content that could be seen as sexualizing or objectifying children in this way. As this system contained no real story elements or gameplay (it was used to level up your characters, but the player's inputs had no impact on the final stats) we felt it was not a substantial loss of content.
>>317468868
If you don't like jap games that much, why don't you just not play them?
>>317469642
But something as integral as the punny names being lost in translation is a terrible choice.
>>317469509
More like you are far to shit at English to make a sentence flow well while still keeping the original meaning and intent.
>>317469509
So now we've gone from "they're the same thing" to "there's no point in seperating them." You can play wordgames all day with "well it's a part of the overall process which is also called translation..." but that's just hem and haw.
They are distinct activities, often handled by seperate people in professional(and even amateur) enviroments. Both can be performed at once, but it doesn't make them one and the same thing.
>>317469000
>SJW
So you would have preferred stylistical monstrosities such as "They're telling us they should be in the hall, having a chat with them"? Singular they is downright awful if used in any actual sentence. Non-standard pronouns are also at least a hundred years old; much older than any SJW.
You know how there have been so many different "operations" since the Operation Rainfall movement, and how some of these have actually been pretty successful?
Why isn't there an Operation Localization or Operation Uncensor movement or something else to fight for proper translations and to keep video games from getting censored?
>>317469898
>It'd be like if American made games constantly refered to specific locations or events that are only relevant to our country, yet we somehow expect the other countries that get the game to just know what it's talking about.
what if there's an audience for that?
>>317466550
theres nothing wrong with any of this, viorate sounds retarded in english, and translating puns and jokes doesn't fucking affect the story, it's only bad when it goes over that.
Why don't you just learn moon if you want the original experience, you'll then realize that a lot of shit is pretty much impossible to translate to other cultures.
>>317468908
AH YES SENPAI-BAKATACHIKUN IS MY FAVORITE MOE MEIDO HAI HAI DESU NE SUGOIIIII
>>317469937
It's baffling why they even bother to localise in the first place.
>>317470076
>I AM SILLY
>>317469008
>I completely ignored the argument to make myself seem smart
Just fuck off, you disgusting weeb
>>317466550
>Be German
>Green Blood, das nazi symbol and Dubs.
>Be American
>Dated Memes, God's name shall not be in vain, and someone think of the children.
>Be Australian
>Strewth those tits are illegally small, darl', and nothing too violent, thanks mate, I get enough glassing ethnics.
>Be South American
>GOTY is Sonic 3 again.
>Be Chinese
>No thank you Mr Skeleton, you not welcome here.
>Be Japanese
>Here, have your perfectly uncensored game, full of all the same character types and tropes literally our entire industry is giving to you, because we forgot how not to use them.
Everyone has their own shit to deal with OP.
>not knowing Japanese
Ask me anything.
>>317469898
Completely agree to be honest family. Kyoto? Sushi? What the fuck is this weeb shit?
>>317468515
It depends on the customer, really.
Some prefer to leave jokes as same as the source, some prefer to fully localise them.
>>317468789
>New Die Hard movie flopped.
>New Robocop movie flopped.
That's what you get when you take R rated franchise and go for the PG13 rating.
>>317469959
I do when they're fitted to my culture :^3
>>317470061
That would require people who actually know enough japanese and english and translation practice to make a proper translation..
Sure, Neps translation goes all the fucking way on the liberal-literal scale, but the "fan translation" on steam is literal to the point of being bland.
I like the AA localization. Except for Maya liking burgers.
![working-Designs-logo[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EncfyzE.jpg "working-Designs-logo[1].jpg")
>>317469581
>Evidently not since there are plenty of people who bought the old 90s RPGs with tons of localization "changes"!
We were young and foolish back then. Also, who thought that Austin Powers references would date THAT badly?
>>317469581
There is a little thing called the internet that has put a much needed transparency on the horrible practices of the 90s and it's what retards like you are slipping back into over micro aggressions.
>>317470132
Not really. Honorifics in text (and even worse, in dubs) is a sin and thankfully only Atlus is stupid enough to keep doing it. Even SEGA dropped it in Yakuza after the first game.
On top of that you have tons of untranslated shit that just doesn't make any sense. Playing through Pirate Warriors and seeing untranslated special moves was baffling.
>>317469898
>It'd be like if American made games constantly refered to specific locations or events that are only relevant to our country, yet we somehow expect the other countries that get the game to just know what it's talking about. Limiting a form of media by these lines is retarded financially and critically.
We live in that world, you'd know it if you weren't american.
More to the point however, translating insignificant shit like Miko to Priestess is fine, changing a character's name, removing or censoring scenes, or just plainly rewriting is stupid.
>>317469782
Okay, so go and tell the devs they should preclude themselves from selling their games to a wider audience. I'm sure that'll go over well.
>>317469835
Look, I'm not defending game translators. They're in the lowest part of the totem pole when it comes to translation skill, and they are tasked to do a lot of work to the games since quirky Japanese minutiae doesn't actually translate to instant best seller.
I just want people to understand that the concept of translation being a "look word up in dictionary" process is completely flawed. There's a reason why shitty fansubs like the keikaku one are made fun of, that's not how translation works. And that works on every level in all sorts of translation works, from movies to books to videogames.
There is no perfect translation. It's always a compromise. And that compromise shows the intent behind what you want to accomplish with the translation itself.
>>317470014
The translator cannot do their job without knowing what the localization intent is. There's no way of doing it without knowing what it's needed for. There's no point in separating the activities from a standpoint of text translation, no matter how much you cry about it.
>>317470175
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N
>>317470318
No, Tokyo.
>>317469743
I have learned how to translate something properly sounds like you need to get back to your online classes.
>>317470275
You're asking an American to consider that the world doesn't revolve around him? I'm not sure who's the bigger idiot here.
There is nothing wrong with those name changes and you should be shot for comparing it censorship. Especially with a name like "Viorate" which is clearly an Engrish mangling of Violet. Are you one of those retards that pronounces Simon from TTGL as "See-mone" because that's how the Japs do it? Fucking weeaboo trash.
Don't get me wrong, costume changes and such are unacceptable but rendering names properly is part of good translation.
>>317470240
Maybe, just maybe, there's a new "young and foolish" videogame audience publishers would love to sell their games to, don't you think?
>>317470352
TOKYO
O
K
Y
O
>>317470352
Tokyo? Where's that, like down town LA? They sell that noodles shit down there right? Why does this weeb shit have to be so confusing. Speak American family.
>>317469898
>It'd be like if American made games constantly refered to specific locations or events that are only relevant to our country, yet we somehow expect the other countries that get the game to just know what it's talking about. Limiting a form of media by these lines is retarded financially and critically.
Except that is exactly what American devs do?
I swear to god, the amount of pop culture LE DANK MEME/LATE NIGHT SHOW JOKE that gets included in US games is just as obnoxious or worse than what the nips do, the only difference is you yanks are apparently too much of a bunch of hypocrites to realize.
Every other country does direct translations for that but the rest of the world (including Brits) gets fucked over when a US based "translation team" localizes a weeb game with a heavy US-centric cultural bias and the rest of the world gets stuck with that translation because nobody (outside of Nintendo of Europe) will bother to actually go back through the Japanese script and redo their fucking mess.
There is room to take liberties in the translation sometimes, Valkyria Chronicles' translation has some flaws but is otherwise solid and an actual translation.
They didn't start americanizing the script leaving it worth jackshit for Europeans and the rest of the world (though let's be honest, the three regions are Japan, US+Canada and Europe)
>>317469472
>le good ole days
>why isn't this place a hugbox for pathetic sacks of shit like myself anymore :(
Good. Stay in your containment board, you fucking trash.
>>317470075
I am, I don't get jap pricing though. Like why some newish popular games are cheap as fuck st 16-25, some at about the same at 43, and then some new shit upcoming/misc shit at 50-80. Then the fact of jap 3DSs are priced normally but jap wii Us are about 100-150 bucks more. Amazon and playasia seem to be the cheapest places for jap games, ebay did not seem like much of a difference
>>317470061
Because the angry faggots whinging about localizations don't actually know the original language of the games in question. If they did they'd have played them and knew that the overall differences tend to be absolutely miniscule.
>>317470426
Too bad Esty Dee wasn't part of the good name changes.
>>317470426
>Names are wrong
>Coming from the nation that has people literally called L-a and Janqueefa
>>317470515
No, you fuck off.
>>317466550
>Rizerea to Rizlea
>Not bad this is localization especially with names because that shit is sensitive
>read the rest
oh my god
>>317470426
While Viorate very much seems like it is an attempt at violete in katakana. Changing Makaron(or Macaron if you must) because the retarded translator doesn't know what it is and is too lazy to look it up is just stupid.
And i think it is the second part most people take issue with anyway. The whole, input your own so funny jokes part.
>>317470501
>Art book for 3 was released
>VC3 never tho
I'm still mad.
>>317470280
>I just want people to understand that the concept of translation being a "look word up in dictionary" process is completely flawed
No-one is saying that. But there's creative translation and there's 'creative' translation.
>>317469846
>An American website with majority American users isn't about American culture
Weebs are THIS deluded
>>317470567
>>317470235
But knowing that localization companies actively add and change content because "we like this more" is a problem that people can know in itself and complain to companies about and make more people aware of, as well as explaining why this is such a bad thing
>>317468003
what was it in japanese?
>>317469364
Please, tell me if you have worked with any gaming company so I know which games not to buy.
Maybe if people who know very little about japanese culture wanted to play a japanese game you should let them, instead of turning that japanese game into a butchered american one.
>series has a dedicated but niche following
>let's alter this content and upset our niche but dedicated fanbase for a potential bigger fanbase
>it never fucking works
Why? Why are companies so god damn stupid?
>not calling viorate "violate" as it was supposed to be.
>>317470280
No one is saying you just look shit up in a dictionary especially with Japanese where everything is fucking implications and context. But a good translator can make a sentence flow well while keeping the line as close as possible to the original. Yes sometimes a line comes out very stiff or a certain phrase may not even exist in said language but changing cultural aspects or inserting memes where there are none is doing a shitty job.
The fact of the matter is most of these people working for these game companies are not paid well and frankly not very skilled at their job. So they take it upon themselves to show some expression in their boring lives to change things here and there even though in reality no one cares what they have to say.
>>317470820
The Companies aren't stupid.
The translator themselves is.
>>317470695
It's all in the details, my friend. How "creative" you get with a translation depends on what that translation is for. You won't translate a Japanese book for kids in the same way you'll translate a Japanese book that is set in a particular historical context that will be aimed at people who are actually aware of that context.
There is, quite literally, no perfect translation.
I am amazed that people have such a hard time grasping this sort of thing.
>>317470776
I am a literary translator, friendo. And not for your language, either.
>>317470752
Japanese has a proper gender neutral pronoun.
>>317470426
>Especially with a name like "Viorate" which is clearly an Engrish mangling of Violet.
>Not calling the little girl 'Violate'
Where do you think you are?
>>317470273
Unless the game is fully voiced in japanese and you can hear the honorifics, it's fine to not include them in the text, otherwise removing them is bullshit and detracts from the characterization.
>>317470280
It sounds like you're also unaware of the role editors play, not only in translation, but in writing in general. I'd check that out.
Crying is also substantively different from pointing out the fact that someone is shit-ass wrong and changing their stories to cover themselves. This is an easier distinction to point out, and one neither I nor anyone else should really have to do.
If you really are in school majoring in this right now, it seriously sounds like you're not getting your time/money/scholarship's worth. Personally, yeah, I'm done with you.
>>317469425
Not the guy you're arguing with, but how would translate a word like Schadenfreude, assuming you can't keep it literally the same. It's a uniquely german word that has a multi word meaning, i.e. no true direct translation.
>>317470275
>>317470389
>>317470501
>B-but US games totally do that too!
>Gives no actual examples
This is how keked you people are by japanese culture, jesus fucking christ
>>317469323
Everyone knows games CAN be art. Not every game is art, but they can be. It's all about intent, passion etc.
>>317470431
Are they really that 'foolish' anymore?
Will the Woolsey-isms of the past work on an audience that accepts things like Persona 3 and 4 and their japanese highschool animes without batting an eye?
>>317470567
Yeah no, the people that take the time to learn the language hate this kind of shit just as much. You are just ignorant and willing to keep swallowing a shit product for more hamburgers.
>>317470965
Wouldn't it depend on context of the sentence it's being used in?
>>317470910
No man, it doesn't make any sense to have English voice actors calling people senpais or kuns or chans or whatever. It's nothing but butchering the whole point of localisation as it is just leaving things untranslated.
It's fansub (&dub) tier shit to leave them in.
>>317470735
Because, again, most people don't know shit about this. They don't know enough japanese to tell how "wrong" a sentence is, they can just say they don't like how it sounds. The few that do usually play in japanese already, and don't care. Add to that the fact that, again, most people don't know shit about translation and can't tell how to properly translate something, they can't make a proper complaint to people about a translation.
I wish Japs were here and could tell us how inferior their CoD3 was because of localisation.
>>317470280
>Look, I'm not defending game translators.
You have been this whole thread, at least own up to it.
>>317470280
>since quirky Japanese minutiae doesn't actually translate to instant best seller
How would the industry know if they haven't had almost any serious attempts at it?
The closest I have seen are the NOE Fire Emblem, Layton, Xenoblade etc translations which, turns out, are much more accurate than what any yank studio shits out and were massive sellers (to the point the Xenoblade one was just released 1 to 1 to the US).
Meanwhile I see time and time again excuses by NA based companies to not release their game in Europe or only with delays (even with only English translation) by claiming their previous games didn't sell well.
Well, no- fucking- shit-, we don't give a damn about your epic maymays, we want a bloody translation of the game.
We have a ton of Asian films that get released here just fine (mind you, directly to DVD/Bluray but there is a niche market for them) while these asshats get away with unprofessional work ethics and attitudes and people like you and the other "but muh quirky US pop culture references" circlejerkers defend them.
At least own up to it and stop pretending they are doing a good job, you want to pay for rewrites, that's your decision to make, but don't pretend you are not basically incentivizing them to ignore the portion of the market who'd pay for an ACTUAL translation.
>>317471028
>conveniently feigns ignorance "sorry /v/ros! never played videogames before, please drop dozens of examples here so I can invalidate all of them!"
>muh censorship
>>317468530
See, and they could have salvaged this because the kana pronunciation in Japanese would have been relatively close to Violet anyway. I may have done Volate (as in volatile, why I think was the original intent), but Violet isn't a terrible localization. Same with Makaron to Macaroon, the proper pronunciation of Makaron would lead to Macaroon. His reason is horshit, of course, as that's not his call to make, but rather, the seem to have already made the call for him anyway.
>>317471123
>It's nothing but butchering the whole point of localisation
The point of localization is to localize the game to your targeted audience.
And if the targeted audience wants all these weebshit in their game, then so be it.
>>317469730
Why don't you go ahead and make the "varied discussion" happen then, instead of bitching over here?
>>317471109
Exactly, but sometimes that context isn't directly inferable from the words in the sentence. Imagine trying to translate the english sentence "Water under the bridge" into Japanese. If you literally translate that as what it says, then you'll confuse the people reading it. You'd have to, in order to keep with the original spirit of what it's trying to say, to translate it as something like "shou ga nai / I suppose it can't be helped". Now, you can make an argument for the audience of the game understanding that "shou ga nai" does mean something similar to "It's behind us and we can't change it anymore", but by the same token that's a fair bit of specialized knowledge that's being assumed.
>>317470871
Just because there's no such thing as a perfect translation doesn't mean there's no such thing as a bad translation.
I want to read something like what the author wrote, not what some guy in the translation department thinks it should be.
Obviously the standards change depending on the audience, and here the audience is saying they want different standards.
>>317471438
dosted anon
>>317471168
>You have been this whole thread, at least own up to it.
People here overreact to everything. The OP is calling a name change "censorship", that is straight-up retarded. Of course there are shit translators. There's also a whole lot of things that are confused with "shit translation".
>Meanwhile I see time and time again excuses by NA based companies to not release their game in Europe or only with delays (even with only English translation) by claiming their previous games didn't sell well.
No one here is a businessman involved with them, though, and no one really knows what their numbers say. I don't think anyone's in the position to tell them if they're doing smart decisions or not. If you ask me, making old school JRPGs in 2015 sounds like the worst possible business decision, but I'm not there to call the shots. I'm sure a lot of people here would cry foul if they stopped overnight, but would the market care?
It's fine to complain. But lots of times in this site people lose track of the general picture. Calling a name change censorship is all kinds of shortsighted.
>>317471494
>I want to read something like what the author wrote, not what some guy in the translation department thinks it should be.
For sure, but unfortunately you're stuck reading what the translator writes. Thus the creative process of translation begins.
>>317469835
>the original run of Game Of Thrones in Italy where the translator decided to make it "more fantasy" and changed the direwolf being killed by a stag with it being killed by a unicorn amongst others.
Dead God, this isn't real, right? Tell me that didn't happen. Is there anywhere I can go if I wanted to read all the changes that were made in that italian translation?
>>317471438
>Water under the bridge
水に流そう
there's a direct translation, actually.
>>317471423
The point of localisation is to make it sensible.
If they wanted to cling on to their accuracy in Japanese shit like honorifics they'd NOT dub the game and instead just release it with Japanese VA. Instead they plague both voice and text with honorifics.
Would you think people would've been mad if there were no honorifics? No. Basically everyone else but Atlus' Purseowner localisation team rids honorifics out of the text.
Even fucking NISA.
>>317471423
I mean, think of Disgaea, Atelier, Tales, whatever. None of them include honorifics in the dubs or the text.
Requesting "Much fun. Such ruin" image please. You know the one.
>>317471184
>STILL CAN'T QUOTE A SINGLE EXAMPLE
AHAHAHAHAHAAAAA
>>317471619
>水に流そう
Literally translates to "Let flow in water", which is not "Water under the bridge", which is what I'm getting at. In that translation, you have localized the American proverb to a Japanese proverb.
>>317471438
Except they have a phrase for that but these trash "translaters" wouldn't know this I guess.
>These fucking translators* don't know know what the fans want!
*Localization team whose job it is to change things for an American audience
>>317469898
So, in your opinion, only the lepers of Okinawa could truly enjoy a game that has a callback to a random folk tale of the lepers of Okinawa? Really?
>>317471732
>show me evidence to disprove my bullshit
>not gonna show evidence of my bullshit tho, here have some meme reaction faces instead
