Did Bungie ever actually intend for Forerunners to be Human? Why is 343 trying to humanize Master Chief?
>>316818457
Yes they did.
It has been established in canon since halo CE that master chief is a genetic clone of the iso-didact.
It is a complete 180 in character development that he has a love interest however, since he considered himself a machine and incapable of anything other than combat.
>>316818457
343 doesn't give a shit. Fuck them.
Everything in the timeline after Halo 3 is shitty fan-fiction.
>>316818457
>>316818743
Humans and Forerunners are not the same thing however.
Guilty Spark references Chief, or at least humans, are forerunners in CE. How this flys over everyone's head and constant circlejerk of 3 is proof that majority of the fanbase is made up of PS2 migrants who started with 3 and buzzed over the first two without watching the cutscenes
>>316818859
I regard Reach as canon, but only because it was made by Bungie.
>>316819134
Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren't conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the "great journey" failed. They also weren't the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to "sweep them under the carpet," as it were.
The plot lines in the games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, "you are forerunner." etc.
I just finished reading Cryptum this morning. In it I discovered that the forerunner are now an entirely different caste-based species with Humans as a beaten, but allied race.
>>316819209
Not really.
Initially all the spartans looked the same (sort of like in halo wars) and not like noble team with their special snowflake armor.
>>316819209
Arguing over what is canon and what isn't (Nicole the spartan, Odd One Out, Reach vs. Fall of Reach) does nobody any good. Enjoy it all.
>>316819348
Thid. the first time you saw anyone in different armor was Chief in the MK VI and the SPi armor for Ghost of Onyx.
>>316818457
If Bungie had stayed in and kept master chief as a b-movie blank slate, people would have eventually complained.
>>316819362
Yeah the stories in halo games are kinda confusing and contradictory
I kinda just enjoy them for what they are, like each is a standalone episode featuring the same cast... And I try not to think too hard or figure anything out.
>>316818457
>Caring about Halo lore
Why is the case that if it isn't Japanese, I can't force myself to care about video game lore? Is it because almost all video game story are just poorly written compares to stories found in movies?
>>316818743
No that bullshit was never a thing until 4. They didn't even expect to make a sequel let alone 4 sequels.
>>316819583
>halo
>confusing
u wot m8, its mostly straightforward. 4 just says fuck it to subtle ARG and put most of the backstory into the game along with its own plot.
The events of Reach were retconned with the game, and Fall of Reach has since been rewritten and updated to reflect it, however poor of a choice that may have been, its canon now so we just gotta deal with it.
>>316819746
not that anon but it is HEAVILY implied that the humans are either the descendants/ancestors/remnants of the forerunners in every game
until 4 decided to change that by making the humans a subjugated race of the forerunner after they lost a war (fucking retarded)
Yes, in fact, here's a post from a bungie member detailing it:
http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive36.pl?read=1070818
>One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren't conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the "great journey" failed. They also weren't the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to "sweep them under the carpet," as it were.
>The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, "you are forerunner." etc.
>I just finished reading Cryptum this morning. In it I discovered that the forerunner are now an entirely different caste-based species with Humans as a beaten, but allied race. At this point, I just follow Cody's lead, shrug my shoulders and say, "eh. it was a good read anyway. I'll buy book 2."
The question is how come the terminals then in Halo 3 say they aren't the same as humans, despite him saying even in halo 3 the plan was still for them to be the same. Maybe not all of bungie was on the same page?
Super cool to see how the end of contact harvest was planned from the start of the franchise though
>>316818457
Forerunners aren't human wtf are you talking about?
>>316819696
Maybe because you're a weeb? At least that's how you're sounding.
>>316819980
There's no inherent reason I shouldn't care about Western lore, I just don't because I don't think it has much of an identity over stories found in other mediums.
>>316818457
in the final fight in halo 3
Guilty spark literally says "YOU ARE FORERUNNER BUT THIS RING IS MINE"
plus terminals say so too in halo 3.
>>316819813
Actually, none of the changes to the re-issue of the fall of reach make it more in line with the game, they are just error fixes and fixing the wonky shit that had already been retconned like elites being encountered for the first time on reach.
All of the stuff to make the book and the game match each other were just additional info that was in halsey's journal and the data drops, so technically the book was never retconned due to reach coming out, there were just inconsistencies that were later clarified.
>>316819696
>>316820198
Well, the halo books are really good. Not just "good for video game novels", but actually good scifi in their own right. The forerunner books especially are great hard scifi.
>>316819947
Because Bungie never actually intended for humans to be Forerunners, they only played around with the idea of it. Honestly, you should have realized they were different species when you saw that Forerunners had six fingers in CE. By 2 and 3, they had dropped that plot point completely.
Halo 3 terminals and ad campaign retconned that long before 343 even existed.
Bungie literally made it up as they went.
>>316820413
Yet, the bungie employee posting the messaged I linked directly states that even during 3 the plan was for humans to actually be forerunners.
>>316820312
>but actually good scifi in their own right.
I don't care for Sci-Fi books. They aren't popular, and when they're adapted to other media, it's usually mediocre.
>>316820472
>Bungie literally made it up as they went.
This.
>>316819209
>After the Halo 3 timeline.
Everything made by Bungie is canon, that includes Reach.
>>316820639
Reach is not canon, read fall of reach.
>>316820745
>>316820639
Fall of Reach and Halo reach are not incompatible, read halsey's journal and the data drops.
>>316819134
It didn't fly over our heads. The players put 2 and 2 together that:
-the Forerunners were extremely old
-Humans aren't as old as the Forerunners
Its fucking obvious that humans didn't make all the forerunner stuff. So we're left with:
-Humans ARENT forerunners
-or, Spark refers to humanity as another species that could replace the forerunners
>>316820472
>Bungie literally made it up as they went.
see
>>316819947
There are other HBO posts that go into how a lot of the covenant structure we see in the later books was also planned out as early as during halo 2's development.
>>316820553
Oh yeah, you mean that guy that was a fucking UI designer? He wasn't Joseph Staten, and he had no control over the story of the games. Using him as an authority is fucking retarded.
>>316820961
A couple of loose ideas subject to change is different than concrete planning.
>>316818743
>established since CE that chief is a clone of iso-didact
No one knew who the iso-didact was until 4
Chief is never mentioned as being a clone of anything, Spark only takes a liking to Chief probably because humans a similar to forerunners
>>316820198
Fair enough. From my perspective, most Western game developers follow a different design philosophy compared to most Eastern game developers, in that their ideas usually revolve around the gameplay part with the writing often added in simply on an afterthought; whereas with most Eastern game developers we see a fair amount of focus for both writing and gameplay. In such a case, it would not be surprising that the writing in Western games would usually be mediocre at best.
I'd like to emphasize that I did not use the word ''all'', and instead used ''most'' and ''usually''. There are exceptions to all of these.
quote from guilty spark talking to chief
"you are forerunner"
>>316821157
Would you suck my dick if I told you that I'm Japanese?
Because you really seem to have a hard on for our Kamikaze Bonzai friends.
>>316821297
>quote from unstable A.I left in isolation for hundreds of thousands of years
>same A.I that goes nuts
Do u really think we're supposed to believe you
>>316821057
>>316821073
Staten did have lots of stuff planned ahead of time, though.
You should really go back and read early Halo CE/2 era QA's from him, in retrospect it's amazing to see how much of what he was hinting at and saying at the time has become relavent in bungie's later halo days with the later novels.
>>316821380
Sorry pham, I might be a faggot but not THAT kind of faggot.
I was just stating my view on things.
>>316821157
>There are exceptions to all of these.
I would like to know what that is.
>Deus Ex had a good story
>Half-Life had a good story
>Planescape Tortment had a good story
This doesn't amount to an interest in the lore because it's either extremely shallow, (Half-Life), a single game, or the lore has little continuity between the entries, (Fallout). The exception that occurs to me is Mass Effect, and we all know how that turned out. Maybe Dragon Age, but I'm not very familiar with that series.
Hol up. Wasn't it implied in Halo Legends that the Humans were just part of the plan to protect all of the species in the galaxy that were sent on arks after the firing of the halo rings to defeat the flood? or has Halo Legends been thrown out the door completely?
>>316819696
Because you've never read Eric Nylund's extremely engrossing military sci-fi fiction novels. Pleb.
>>316822493
We are talking about vidya, are we not?
Certain people have genetic code embedded called a geas (pronounced gay-ass). Aside from this being retarded, since there would be probably a million of people with the same geas due to passing on of genes, it is also beyond retarded, because who says that alien races would even have deoxyribonucleic acid as we do? They might have something entirely different.
>>316822708
Nyuland also writes a lot of the halo novels.
>>316823598
I doubt the novels are such compelling reads that I'll become interested in the lore once I read them.
>>316824123
Read The Fall of Reach, if you like it, read more/the rest. If not, then you tried.
