>About all we know about the Nintendo NX is that the company wants to make better use of its IP for the next generation console than it has in the past. What we don’t know is how much the company is planning on charging once it finally hits the market. Industry Analyst Michael Pachter recently took some guesses at what he believes Nintendo should price the console.
>On episode 3 of his new show Pachter Factor which can be seen at Siftd, Pachter talks about his projections for the MSRP for the Nintendo NX. The analyst was specifically asked,”What price will Nintendo charge for its NX at launch? If it is really a console/handheld hybrid with industry-leading chips can it be priced less than $400? And who will buy NX, except Nintendo enthusiasts, for that price, assuming the massive install base of the PS4 and Xbox One by then?”
>He believes Nintendo needs to charge no more than $299 for the new console, and pointed to the horrendously bad launch of the Wii U when it had a price point of $349. Pachter also made the comment that when this console finally does launch, which will likely be the fall of 2016, the PS4 and Xbox One will likely both be carrying price points of $299. The analyst believes if the Nintendo NX is priced above those two consoles, it better be able to do a lot more.
Thoughts on this, lads?
>>316817904
300$ is too much desu
You can find a PS4 or Xbone for 300$ plus game
NX needs to be 200$
I would have said this before, myself, but Pachter is typically so awfully wrong in every way that I'm starting to doubt myself.
I never thought I'd say this but Pratcher is right. No one will buy an NX if it costs more than the Xbox One or PS4 with massive established game libraries.
>patcher
>>316817904
>Pachter
>pachter
So irs going to be no less than 400-500?
>>316817904
>Patcher
It gonna be 400+ or 300 under.
>>316818170
>>316818181
>>316818182
A broken clock is right twice a day
Adding to the >Pachter
train
>pachter
Wasn't he right once like a decade ago and everything else after that was just wrong?
how the fuck can anyone say this when they don't even know the details of what it is? in all likely hood it probably will end up being something that should be priced below 300 dollars but it's too early to start saying how much it should cost
I hope the NX costs $500+ to keep the kiddos and plebs out. Hopefully it will mean it would also be more powerful than average gaming PC's and VR compatible.
>>316818182
$250
€250
£250
knowing nintendo these days it's probably going to be a phone or a tablet or some other retarded and underwhelming bullshit
also amiibo 2.0's up the ass
>>316818302
He spouts some general nonsense to the public but to his actual clients he provides good analysis.
Remember after TORtanic and ME3 when EA's stock fell 50% to below $10 a share and /v/ was saying they were going to go bankrupt? Patcher said to buy EA stock. Their stock is up to $68 a share
Welcome to being an analyst. Make all kinds of predictions, crow whenever you're right, and pretend you never said it if you were wrong.
Does anyone even know what the NX is going to be at this point?
>>316818236
Actually a broken clock can be correct for the entire day.
>>316817904
Michael "Nintendo will go bankrupt, its gonna happen this year I swear" Pachter
>>316818680
A family of systems that share software
That's all we know
>>316818657
The funny thing is that could have been effectively a self fulfilling prophecy. Of course stock prices will go up if people buy them in bulk and the fact that he can get people to listen to him means that him saying will lead people to buy.
>>316819007
Source?
>>316817904
It only means that Nintendo has to price the NX over $300.
>>316819104
That certainly isn't the case here. An increase of nearly 600% with share price maintained over several years isn't a "self fulfilling prophecy." And there's no need for bullshit speculation. We can see that it's been a gradual increase since he recommended the stock.
In essence, you know nothing whatsoever about security analysis and you should probably kill yourself.
>>316818903
Michael "If I say one thing, the opposite is happening" Patcher.
>>316817904
>Pachter
So it's confirmed above 300 burgers?
>>316818903
Michael "when I make an analysis, blame the ISIS" Patcher
Shit
>>316817904
>>He believes Nintendo needs to charge no more than $299 for the new console, and pointed to the horrendously bad launch of the Wii U when it had a price point of $349
WiiU sold for $299 and $349 and no one bought the basic model.
Nothing can change how nintendo's consoles sell except maybe the new president and those yakuza ties
>>316817904
this guy simbolizes everything that's wrong with the world.
absolute dumb shit completely out of touch that somehow keeps having his stupid comentaries all over the place even though everyone knows he's always wrong.
toddlers getting BTFO hard by based pachter.
If there's a disc drive, $300. If not, $200-$250. Seems fair for a new console, especially one that will have to compete.
Pachter's worst nightmare
>Michael Pachter
How come he still is in the industry? Nothing he has predicted has ever actually happened.
>>316820598
How so? For what companies does he recommend a buy that rely on website ad revenue?
Pachter is the game industry's specialist at self-fulfilling prophecies. Tell a lie long enough and it becomes true.
>2006: Wii will fail out of the game, developers don't bother to put your high budget investment towards Wii. Put it towards PS3 instead.
>2007: This year will be the year of the PS3, the Wii is just a short term fad. Please keep ignoring it developers, the real money will be on PS3.
>2008: THIS year will be the year of the PS3, the Wii is just a short term fad. Please keep ignoring it developers, the real money will be on PS3.
>2009: This truly at last will be the year of the year of the PS3, the Wii is just a short term fad. Please keep ignoring it developers, the real money will be on PS3.
>2010: I'm sure this will finally be the year of the PS3. I know so many of you in the AAA industry have gone bankrupt, but please hang in there. Keep ignoring the Wii developers, it can't last much longer. The real money will be on PS3.
>2011: We finally did it bros! The Wii is dead! Hey, where is everybody? Oh...except for a few major companies you're all bankrupt by now.
>>316818236
saying "wow it's must be cheap to succeed" is stating the obvious. the whole back up provided is retarded though
>>316820615
That's not true. He not only predicted Activation split from Vivendi, but said how they would do it as well.
>>316821095
None of these are self-fulfilling prophesies. If I predict that Labour will win the next general election, (not bloodly likely, thank goodness), and this take a decade to happen because it eventually will, that's not self-fulfilling because my prediction didn't influence the events which I predicted to occur.
>>316821058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgFLeigq8z0
>>316821390
I watched that episode. He objects to it on moral grounds, but it's no skin on his nose if people use it. He probably makes above $250000 in his analyst position and when he made these videos, he did them for free.
>>316821310
Pachter kept on pushing the line that the Wii will fail and it caused developers to avoid investing in developing good games for the console.
Eventually this was one of the biggest reasons the console died early.
>>316821861
I really don't know what to say. If you think that a single analyst can cause the downfall of the Wii's third-party support, then there's nothing that I can say, except that you're completely wrong, in your premises, reasoning, and conclusion.
Also, the Wii didn't "fail." It was by far the most profitable console of its generation, (it actually made its production company money). There were companies that made games for the Wii, and if they were profitable enough, they would have kept doing so.
>>316818065
>You can find a PS4 or Xbone for 300$ plus game
Where? Not trying to be a dick. Just asking so I can buy one.
>>316817904
>Patcher is wrong meme
He wass right about the Pii U Nintentoddlers while you were crying 6-8months in that it could still be turned around.....
>>316817904
>Pachter
Turn Based
Turn Based
Turn Based
>>316824073
You can get second hand PS4s for as low as £170, however much that is in freedom dollars
>>316822306
>If you think that a single analyst can cause the downfall of the Wii's third-party support, then there's nothing that I can say
He was just one of many. Pachter was the ringleader of a chorus of like-minded "analysts" that tried to undermine confidence in the Wii from start to finish, despite it success.
>Also, the Wii didn't "fail." It was by far the most profitable console of its generation, (it actually made its production company money)
I never said it failed. I said that it died early
>There were companies that made games for the Wii, and if they were profitable enough, they would have kept doing so.
Yes, but it was badly neglected. Call of Duty 3 sold better on Wii than on PS3. So why was COD4 released in 2007 on PS3 and in 2009 for Wii?
Dun dun dun...it was because Pachter and his cohorts convinced Activision that the Wii would finally lose to PS3 in the upcoming holiday season so there was no point wasting money on getting a port ready.
>>316819104
No yo retard. In his case was based on the EA blue print for the next years. Focused on increasing revenues in the digital área. Which they did thanks mostly to dlc and ultimate team in FIFA and Madden.
Vita / PS4 owner here. Pachter is about as reliable as p4gaming or the onion.
Wasn't Patcher the guy that said the Vita would destroy the 3DS in terms of sales?
>>316824565
>He was just one of many. Pachter was the ringleader of a chorus of like-minded "analysts" that tried to undermine confidence in the Wii from start to finish, despite it success.
I have no confidence that analyst predictions influenced developer schedules.
>I never said it failed. I said that it died early
Well, my point was that Pachter was dead wrong if he said it failed, which I doubt he even said. He has always been predicting the death of the Wii U, and I guess he was right. It died early because no game notable multigeneration game will release on a platform as a weak as a the Wii, unlike the 360 and PS3 which have gotten three Call of Duty games after the next-gen consoles were released.
>Call of Duty 3 sold better on Wii than on PS3
This is probably because early PS3 owners were fewer and had higher standards than early Wii adopters.
>it was because Pachter and his cohorts convinced Activision that the Wii would finally lose to PS3 in the upcoming holiday season MW3, BO, MW, and a hell of a lot of other games were released by Activision on the Wii, all of which sold much worse than the PS3 versions.
>>316825236
He actually only said that it would eat into 3DS market share.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/pachter-vita-will-rob-nintendo-market-share
So he was wrong, but not so monumentally as that.
>>316825464
>>316824565
MW3, BO, MW, and a hell of a lot of other games were released by Activision on the Wii, all of which sold much worse than the PS3 versions.
>>316817904
>Wii U runs on ancient hardware
>launched at $350
>bombed
>NX will run on slightly-less-ancient hardware
>will most definitely launch with a $400+ price point
I'm sorry, I'm a Nintendo fan and even I know this shit's gonna happen.
>>316825464
>I have no confidence that analyst predictions influenced developer schedules.
It certainly influences publishers and the financiers, who hold the developers leash. Who else are Pachter's clients?
>Well, my point was that Pachter was dead wrong if he said it failed, which I doubt he even said.
Again, you're not reading what I said. Pachter never said it "failed" he said it WILL fail because it was merely a fad.
Obviously its failure was proven wrong in the end, but it still died prematurely.
>This is probably because early PS3 owners were fewer and had higher standards than early Wii adopters.
A console with a greater install base and less discerning customers is EXACTLY what a publisher wants. So there was every more reason to release COD4 for Wii in 2007 created by Infinity Ward themselves instead of shitting out a port in 2009 by some farmed out porting house.
>>316825830
>MW3, BO, MW, and a hell of a lot of other games were released by Activision on the Wii
Yes, they were all released either late or ported by some shitty and not the original developers themselves. Usually both, I'd argue that after a while of doing this Wii consumers got a bad taste in their mouth and stopped buying this.
COD3 is a great example though because the Wii and PS3 versions were on equal footing, and it was early in both console's life so there was no shitty porting reputation yet. And in that situation, the Wii won.
>>316826503
>It certainly influences publishers and the financiers, who hold the developers leash. Who else are Pachter's clients?
Are you suggesting that financiers restricted capital to developers analysts said so? That's an extremely weak theory and involves so many assumptions. Who are Pachter's clients? Did they restrict capital based on his predictions? Did anything similar happen with other analysts?
>>316826503
>Again, you're not reading what I said. Pachter never said it "failed" he said it WILL fail because it was merely a fad.
I mean to say that he was dead wrong if he said it would fail.
>Obviously its failure was proven wrong in the end, but it still died prematurely.
And I'm not convinced he had the slightest impact on whether or not the Wii died prematurely.
>>316826503
>A console with a greater install base and less discerning customers is EXACTLY what a publisher wants. So there was every more reason to release COD4 for Wii in 2007 created by Infinity Ward themselves instead of shitting out a port in 2009 by some farmed out porting house.
Still not seeing your point. They released it eventually and there were a number of reasons they have could have decided that they didn't want to port it immediately, such as the fact that, unlike the PS2 version of Call of Duty 3, they couldn't just port a version to the Wii. If there was a PS2 version of the MW released in 2007, you better believe it would have released in 2007 for the Wii. There is no evidence that they were influenced by Pachter's or anyone else's predictions about the Wii's demise.
>>316826816
>Are you suggesting that financiers restricted capital to developers analysts said so? That's an extremely weak theory and involves so many assumptions.
You're treating this process as if it's some kind of conspiracy. Publishers often make large market decisions based on what their analysts are telling them.
Pachter would have said to one of his publisher clients "The Wii is probably going to burn out this holiday season, concentrate your developer resources on 360 and PS3".
This is actually how business works dude. And because pretty much all of the other analysts were following the same Pachter line, virtually all the publishers treated the Wii with low-budget releases as token support and put their money towards 360/PS3.
Because the Wii continued to be successful at the expense of the competition, the 360/PS3 market was overcrowded in 07/08/09 which meant that a lot of smaller AAA developers went bankrupt. That could have been avoided if they had bet more strongly on the Wii.
>>316826503
>Yes, they were all released either late or ported by some shitty and not the original developers themselves. Usually both, I'd argue that after a while of doing this Wii consumers got a bad taste in their mouth and stopped buying this.
>COD3 is a great example though because the Wii and PS3 versions were on equal footing, and it was early in both console's life so there was no shitty porting reputation yet. And in that situation, the Wii won.
That applied equally well to the ports the Wii received at launch, so they were just continuing the policy they implemented from the beginning in regards to the Wii. They actually put more effort because they weren't just porting them but were outsourcing the development to another studio to port the games based on the 360/PS3 versions.
>COD3 is a great example though because the Wii and PS3 versions were on equal footing, and it was early in both console's life so there was no shitty porting reputation yet. And in that situation, the Wii won.
Once again, this still doesn't prove that it was analysis's predictions that influenced their failure to ramp up their support for the Wii.
>taking advice from pachter
They did that and the result was the WII U. That fat kike can shove it.
the reason the wii u flopped at that price point is it had almost no third party support, and the support it DID have was absolutely abysmal. The arkham city port was laughable.
Nintendo needs a heaping helping of third party support for the LAUNCH of NX. This means the next call of duty, running as well as, or better than ps4/xbone (even though they won't strike a deal with activision for DLC timing as PS4 has that on lock for the next 4 years), and just more non-nintendo games. They carry a system, without a doubt, but only when they're there. The wii u is basically just flopping around not doing anything outside of the major IP release schedule. The only breakout success I can think of is splatoon, every other newly established IP has failed.
Anyway, the price of the system isn't as consequential as third party support. Obviously they would never succeed with a price over $300 at this point, because PS4s and xbones are rapidly approaching that mark and, soon, we'll see PS4s in every household because of their bluray capability, just like with PS3s in that awkward transition from runt of the litter of gen 7 when you could get a new PS3 for $100 and most bluray players were still $200 or more.
Xbones, if they ever really pump up the marketing for the TV-mode could definitely sell units. I used my xbone for a viewing party of ufc 193 on saturday. Had a few buddies and we all watched it and chatted in a party. Just like being at a bar.
Anyway, basically, the other systems are offering non-gaming benefits to playing on their system. And while it's definitely influencing the impact they have as gaming machines, nintendo isn't doing anything to PROVE they're the number one gaming machine. They can't get any licenses, they've only really got a handful of exclusives worth playing, mostly nintendo IPs, and the third party support that IS there is abysmal at best.
NX, if they release it, will have to be playing catchup. cause right now is gen 8 prime.
>>316827203
>They released it eventually
Yeah...two years later. After everybody had already played it. In the industry model where sales are front-heavy and your game sells the vast majority of the copies it will EVER sell in the first 6 weeks, that's suicide.
> they have could have decided that they didn't want to port it immediately, such as the fact that, unlike the PS2 version of Call of Duty 3, they couldn't just port a version to the Wii. If there was a PS2 version of the MW released in 2007, you better believe it would have released in 2007 for the Wii
There are certainly no technical reasons. COD4 after all was just running on an enhanced Quake 3 engine. It could be scaled down, and it eventually did.
>There is no evidence that they were influenced by Pachter's or anyone else's predictions about the Wii's demise.
Well, there's an old mantra in business. If somebody appears to have made a completely stupid business decision with no visible rationale for it, it means that they must have been receiving bad advice from someone. I can't speak for Pachter personally, but as I said, he was just one in a choir of analysts predicting doom for the Wii for 5 years straight.
>>316827367
>You're treating this process as if it's some kind of conspiracy
No, I'm not.
>Publishers often make large market decisions based on what their analysts are telling them.
And in this case, I'm not convinced this was the reason anyway.
>Pachter would have said to one of his publisher clients "The Wii is probably going to burn out this holiday season, concentrate your developer resources on 360 and PS3".
Pure and utter speculation.
>This is actually how business works dude
Usually, publishers pay much more attention to sales numbers than analysts predictions. Otherwise, Blizzard would have shut down WoW or seriously altered their strategy when Pachter predicted they would lose 75% of their subscriber base in 2005.
>>316827367
>And because pretty much all of the other analysts were following the same Pachter line, virtually all the publishers treated the Wii with low-budget releases as token support and put their money towards 360/PS3.
The relative weakness of the Wii in comparison to the other consoles would always make its version the worst of the four versions available. Aside from the weaker graphical fidelity, I don't know how Activision's releases on the Wii were much worse than the versions on consoles.
>Pachter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8R4BAQf7is
sage
>>316827992
>Yeah...two years later. After everybody had already played it. In the industry model where sales are front-heavy and your game sells the vast majority of the copies it will EVER sell in the first 6 weeks, that's suicide.
Black Ops was released at the same time, MW3 at the same time in North America, and WW two weeks after the other versions in North America.
>>316827992
>There are certainly no technical reasons. COD4 after all was just running on an enhanced Quake 3 engine. It could be scaled down, and it eventually did.
No technical issues for what? Development on the game began before the Wii was released. They would have had to outsource the game for it to be ported in the middle of production for it to release at the same time. I'm still not seeing the necessary conclusion that it must have analysts predictions that determined Activision's or even other publishers' refusal to properly support the Wii.
>>316827992
>Well, there's an old mantra in business. If somebody appears to have made a completely stupid business decision with no visible rationale for it, it means that they must have been receiving bad advice from someone. I can't speak for Pachter personally, but as I said, he was just one in a choir of analysts predicting doom for the Wii for 5 years straight.
I don't even know if it was bad advice. How much did WW on the Wii or BO sell compared to other versions? If they sold worse, it was either because those sort of games will naturally sell worse on the Wii, or the games were low-quality, and as far as I know, with the exception of graphics and some aspects of online, the Call of Duty ports were identical to their console counterparts.
No one is going to want to pay more than $200 for last-gen hardware, let's be real.
>Patcher
Fucker is never right about anything, not even remotely.
>>316828031
>And in this case, I'm not convinced this was the reason anyway.
I'm only applying what I believe to be occam's razor. If you can come up with a more simple explanation than me for why COD4 didn't appear on Wii despite COD3's success then be my guest. Your explanation of sorts was far more speculative than mine.
>Pure and utter speculation.
It would be highly consistent with his public pronouncements, of which are highly documented.
>Usually, publishers pay much more attention to sales numbers than analysts predictions.
Of course, but if sales numbers spoke purely than the Wii would have received COD4 in 2007, or at least 2008.
Analysts also have access to those sales numbers, and their job is to "read the market" to try to predict where future sales numbers will be. Games sales are only part of that market equation, which is why game publishers seek the input of analysts who supposed to be the experts are synthesizing ALL of the data.
>Otherwise, Blizzard would have shut down WoW or seriously altered their strategy when Pachter predicted they would lose 75% of their subscriber base in 2005.
Analysts weren't all in agreement on the fate of WoW. But there was positively groupthink when it came to the Wii being doomed.
>>316828195
>The relative weakness of the Wii in comparison to the other consoles would always make its version the worst of the four versions available.
Of course, graphically yes. But a high budget would ensure that the game would be extremely optimized for the Wii's capabilities. It would also make sure that the motion controls were perfectly refined and suitable for the game.
>I don't know how Activision's releases on the Wii were much worse than the versions on consoles.
They looked ugly even for Wii games and had reams of missing content, even if there was no clear technical reason for it.
>>316817904
Pachter is a fucking hack who doesn't know business let alone videogame business.
Screw him
>>316818236
>>316818804
Actually.It's a broken fucking clock you retards
>>316817904
>Michael
>Get an Education
>Pachter
>>316820615
>Intellectual reasons
We don't know what the NX is, but we do know it's going to be an underpowered gimmicky toy. Nintendo needs to cut their losses and stick to handhelds and mobile or sell their IPs to third parties.
>>316829136
>I'm only applying what I believe to be occam's razor. If you can come up with a more simple explanation than me for why COD4 didn't appear on Wii despite COD3's success then be my guest. Your explanation of sorts was far more speculative than mine
No, it's not. Development began a year before the Wii was launched and perhaps they didn't want to slow production by creating a version they weren't certain would sell even as late as early 2007. There are more plausible reasons why they didn't port it other than the analysts told them the Wii wouldn't sell. I still don't know why we're discussing this particular game. Activision clearly didn't listen to their advice for the other versions aside from MW2.
Why is this place so salty about Pachter being right about the Wii U's failure?
>>316828426
>Black Ops was released at the same time, MW3 at the same time in North America, and WW two weeks after the other versions in North America.
I've already covered this. Those were released very late in the Wii's life by when the console was already past its peak and after there was a lot of bad taste in consumers mouths after been shitted on by third party publishers for so long.
They also weren't very good ports, even considering the Wii's capabilities. Lots of missing content for no reason too. Were they even ported by the original developer? Nope.
>>316828686
> Development on the game began before the Wii was released. They would have had to outsource the game for it to be ported in the middle of production for it to release at the same time
So why wasn't it out for 2008 then? That would have been plenty of time.
It seems to me Activision finally had a eureka moment "Oh, it seems like the Wii might not be doomed after all, so let's do this token port to "test" how the market responds"
For the results of that, see this chart >>316821095
>>316829596
Because he's only good in hindsight.
>>316829596
Like that's some noteworthy insight. When did Pachter seriously predict ANYTHING right?
>>316829136
>It would be highly consistent with his public pronouncements, of which are highly documented.
non causa pro causa
>Of course, but if sales numbers spoke purely than the Wii would have received COD4 in 2007, or at least 2008.
I don't see how you could be certain of that. Besides, Wii got WW in late 2008, so where is the consistency?
>>316817904
There are a lot more factors than just the price but assuming it has a similar launch to the Wii U (i.e. no fucking games for a year and a half) then yeah, $299 is a must.
If they launched with a new, big title every 4 months (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc) and 3rd party support then I could see it selling at $400.
>>316829136
>Analysts weren't all in agreement on the fate of WoW. But there was positively groupthink when it came to the Wii being doomed.
Source please. Enumerate a list of analysts that contributed to this "group think."
>>316824073
black friday sales, everywhere is doing it
>>316817904
No Nintendo console has ever been priced higher than $300, Pachter. What is it you do again?
>>316827676
The NX doesn't just need the third parties, it also needs the basics of what the other systems have.
Screenshots without jumping through hoops, video recording without jumping through hoops, an account system, the ability to have parties and to chat with said parties without any hassle whatsoever, the ability to join games of friends without any hassle at all, the ability to overlay music, the ability to have a simple friends list without any bullshit that gives you a general overlook, even though people hate it they need some sort of achievement system since that does bring in people, an actual account system that lets you download without having to call people at Nintendo up, and so on.
As of now they have a decent shop format on the Wii U which is simple enough to buy stuff from, it's easy to put money on your account, you can browse certain things while playing a game without interrupting it, they have the start of a friend system, you can download and install while playing a game, and so on, but it's still not there yet.
Some other things they need to do are to rescind the "It's for kids!" mentality which persists. Normal people don't want to buy a system that is advertised to children as heavily as it is for their "hardcore gaming", and nor do they want to buy third-party games on a system that looks the same or worse than the other system just with a few more exclusives.
In the same respect, some people just won't buy Nintendo to begin with.
>almost 2016
>listening to patcher
>>316817904
If there's one rule on the internet, it's that Pachter is never, ever right.
>>316829662
>>316829708
He wouldn't have much of a job if he was wrong all of the time.
>>316830075
>>316817904
Doesn't matter, they're still going to go with some retarded name like WiiToo.
>>316821095
>2006
he was right
>2007
wrong
>2008
wrong
>2009
right, the PS3 really picked up at this point
>2010
it already did
>2011
Nintendo released Skyward Sword on a dead console then released an even more irrelevant console a year later. I wonder if history will repeat with Zelda U and the NX
>>316829136
>Of course, graphically yes. But a high budget would ensure that the game would be extremely optimized for the Wii's capabilities. It would also make sure that the motion controls were perfectly refined and suitable for the game.
As far as I know, that was the case with WW and MW and MW3. As far as optimization is concerned, those games don't look much worse than other games that were third-party shooters. And if they were low-quality graphics, it doesn't follow that the most likely explanation is that Activation listed to Analysts when they should have payed attention to the sales numbers of CoW3. If anything, the high sales numbers for such a low-quality port shows that quality isn't necessary for high sales on the Wii.
>They looked ugly even for Wii games and had reams of missing content, even if there was no clear technical reason for it.
Again, the most obvious reason is not that they were listening to analysts and not sales figures.
>>316817904
>disaster
You see, Nintendo is the only company right now with multi million selling first party games they didn't break the bank to make.
Sony is basically sailing the wave and are coasting off hardware/FIFA/CoD sales which at the end of the day don't bring in as much dosh as the first party titles where it's all profit.
Its like he dosn't know shit about video games or something.
Let me know when the NX is confirmed to even be a new fucking console.
Seriously, this is all speculation from shitty journalist websites.
>>316829780
>non causa pro causa
It's pretty ridiculous that you think that it's more likely that a person holds a different opinion privately and publicly than the same opinion everywhere.
>Besides, Wii got WW in late 2008, so where is the consistency?
WW on Wii had a hugely gimped multiplayer mode, and that was the whole draw of the game especially as WW's campaign was vastly inferior to the MW series. There was no reason to buy the Wii version, even if you didn't have any other platform.
>>316829909
>Source please. Enumerate a list of analysts that contributed to this "group think."
I'm not digging up the news archives now, but you're more than welcome to Google it. Should all still be there.
I read the news attentively then and I saw exactly what was being said over and over.
>>316829136
>But there was positively groupthink when it came to the Wii being doomed.
I shouldn't have to contradict you, so here.
Despite an expected $399 PS3 and new Xbox 360 bundles, simExchange analyst Jesse Divnich anticipates the Wii to outsell the competition this holiday. Divnich says that consumers have likely already made up their minds. Also, in the battle of the bands, Divnich expects Guitar Hero III to fare better than Rock Band.
While the Wii has been red hot, can Nintendo carry its momentum into the holiday season? According to simExchange analyst Jesse Divnich, the answer is clearly yes. Microsoft and the Xbox 360 have been gaining steam thanks to the Halo 3 behemoth – and sales for the console will likely be further boosted thanks to bundles that include two free games – and at the same time it's expected that Sony will introduce a cheaper ($399) 40GB PlayStation 3. Nevertheless, Divnich asserts that Nintendo's already won this round.
"Given all the recent news and trading in the market, it is apparent that consumers have already made up their choice as to which system(s) they plan on purchasing this season. There is no cost effective strategy that either Sony or Microsoft could implement this late in the season to change the minds of the consumers. The prediction market expects the current home console trend to continue through the holiday season with the Wii leading the pack followed by the Xbox 360 and then the PS3," Divnich said.
http://www.nintendofuse.com/2007/10/15/wii-to-dominate-says-analyst/
>>316819306
he's thinking of
http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-unifying-handheld-and-console-dev-structure-in-new-headquarters/
which doesn't say that. All it really says is they're tired of developing separately between the systems. It's more do to with being able to reuse more code between projects on handheld and consoles, not necessarily same games but it certainly would save them development time and costs.
I know you hate him because he says bad things about muh Nintendo, but he's actually pretty sensible. He said several times he never questions Nintendo's software decisions, only their stupid hardware ones (rightfully so).
>>316817904
> pachter on xbox 360 successor
“The reason I think Microsoft wins, I think that you’re going to get a subsidy. So I think the price for the next Xbox is going to be subsidised either by a cable TV company or an internet service provider. I think ISPs have a reason, if you add broadband to get the next Xbox, we’ll give it to you for 100 bucks. If you subscribe to our cable TV and sign up for a couple of years, we’ll give you the next Xbox for 100 bucks.
“That’s a gigantic advantage until Sony picks up the slack and does the same kind of thing and that’s why I think TV is a killer app. I think you’re going to see Xbox Live with tiered pricing, so if you get TV service you pay a little more because you get rid of your cable box. If you use Skype, they’ll give you unlimited Skype calling to any place, even phones, for another few bucks.
“I think that’s a really interesting thing. It’s going get kids to say to their parents hey, get the Xbox because it’s 100 bucks because we can talk to grandma and we get cable TV and I really want to play it. So I think they can win based on that. And Sony can level the playing field. Sony absolutely has the capability to catch up with their boxes, they’re plenty powerful.
“But I think they win. And I think that you’re going to see an accelerated sell-through of next generation boxes, first with Microsoft and their ancillary services, next from Sony when they add them. It’s inevitable Sony will.”
Blunder of the multiverse
>>316817904
>And who will buy NX, except Nintendo enthusiasts, for that price, assuming the massive install base of the PS4 and Xbox One by then?
I am not saying this is in anyway likely. But hte answer is still, tons of people. Everywhere. If, the NX is stronger than the PS4 and XB1, and gets new iterations of FIFA, GTA, and CoD or whatever that wouldn't run on the current generation of hardware.
Then all those people would run straight to the new console, because they can't possibly miss the latest FIFA or GTA. And we already know that these people don't want to play games on PC.
>>316830310
>As far as optimization is concerned, those games don't look much worse than other games that were third-party shooters
They look a fair bit worse than Metroid Prime 3, which was probably the only shooter on the entire console that had a big enough budget for actual optimization.
>Analysts when they should have payed attention to the sales numbers of CoW3. If anything, the high sales numbers for such a low-quality port shows that quality isn't necessary for high sales on the Wii.
No version of the game was particularly very good. The Wii version wasn't actually gimped compared to the other versions (remember this was early PS3 days where nobody knew how to program Cell properly), it had some novel features.
>Again, the most obvious reason is not that they were listening to analysts and not sales figures.
And by then the self-prophecy of the Wii "test" cycle had been fulfilled.
>put shit effort into port
>hey nobody bought it, that means our decision not to put much money into porting was justified!
>>316817904
It needs to be 250 with a packaged in game and two controllers.
>>316830654
Congratulations, you found the minority of analysts that thought the Wii might not have been doomed (that holiday season).
Now find an analyst that believed the Wii would have long-term success beyond that year.
>>316830607
>It's pretty ridiculous that you think that it's more likely that a person holds a different opinion privately and publicly than the same opinion everywhere.
I don't know what you're referring to.
>WW on Wii had a hugely gimped multiplayer mode, and that was the whole draw of the game especially as WW's campaign was vastly inferior to the MW series. There was no reason to buy the Wii version, even if you didn't have any other platform.
There was never any reason to buy the WW when you had the other consoles because no matter how well optimized it would have been, it would have looked terrible on the Wii compared to the other systems. No matter how much optimization was possible, the Wii was a much weaker system and only a small number of the Wii userbase would be interested in that game no matter how well it was marketed, optimized, or stacked with features.
>I'm not digging up the news archives now, but you're more than welcome to Google it. Should all still be there.
I shouldn't be called upon to prove a negative, but I posted an analyst's prediction saying Wii would dominate holiday sales.
As far as I know, third-party versions always sold worse on Wii when compared with other versions with the exception of launch. Not only did the Wii's hardware limit what could be accomplished on the platform, but analysts correctly knew that people would always prefer the game on other platforms or people who only owned a Wii didn't really care about the high-profile third-party games or that they would settle for low-quality ports if they launch sales were any indication.
>Patcher
He thought the Vita was going to steal the 3DS' market share...
>>316831384
http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/25/analyst-predicts-two-more-years-of-wii-shortages/
Here. This is so fucking pointless.
>>316830756
So you're just going to ignore the fact that 9 times out of 10 he's wrong about everything including but not limited to Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo?
>>316831061
You're assuming that the massive amount of people (around 40 million with PS4 and XBONE sales combined) would ditch their 2 year old 300+ dollar system for a 250 (more or less) dollar system because it just their game of choice looks slightly better? That's simply not gonna happen.
You gotta convince the FIFA, GTA and COD devs to develop for your console first, because why should they drop millions of potential sales for a system that has 0 install base other them Nintendo enthusiasts?
Nintendo has to go full creative again with the NX and not just simply make a console that's more or equally as powerful than the competition.
They need some serious salvage operation tactics.
They need to make a $300 console with better specs than PS4 and ONE, easy to program, real third party support and excellent first party support. They shouldn't launch the console with casual games like they did with Wii U, they should launch it with Metroid, F-Zero, Pikmin 4, New Mario main, Zelda Wii U port and a new IPs.
No wii-related name, no shitty family advertisements.
>>316831061
the ps4 and xb1 and pc are markedly stronger then last gen and have slightly better looking but buggier and net dependent versions of those games.
They are barely selling batter then last gen right now.
The NX does not need to be the most powerful system just be markedly powerful and able to put out fantastic looking games with nintendo's ips, do all of those things that the last gen consoles did when it comes to streaming and media playback have nintendo's first party the few third party that always sells on their system and somehow get their handhelds on there.
Not make the system a handheld but have the handhelds be somehow attached to it.
>>316831421
>I don't know what you're referring to.
You said that it was a logical fallacy for me to claim that Pachter's public pronouncements would likely be consistent with his private advice. I don't think my claim is that unreasonable.
>There was never any reason to buy the WW when you had the other consoles because no matter how well optimized it would have been, it would have looked terrible on the Wii compared to the other systems
A lot of Wii owners didn't have other systems, so games could be judged on their own merits. And quite frankly, WW without a proper multiplayer mode just isn't buying on its own merits. Graphics don't even enter the equation.
>only a small number of the Wii userbase would be interested in that game no matter how well it was marketed, optimized, or stacked with features.
Ah, so you are a victim of the self-prophecy "test" cycle yourself. All I'm trying to say is that in the only situation that was genuinely like-for-like, the Wii sales were actually decent.
>As far as I know, third-party versions always sold worse on Wii when compared with other versions with the exception of launch
No, when it came to like-for-like, the Wii versions did very well, even beyond launch.
Guitar Hero 3 on Wii was the best selling version for example.
>>316831152
>They look a fair bit worse than Metroid Prime 3, which was probably the only shooter on the entire console that had a big enough budget for actual optimization.
I said third-party shooters. Second-party and first-party games were produced with better graphics at least since the N64. This may have been a decision based on the analysis of return-on-investment, and it's likely that optimizing shooters and third-party games in general to look as good as Nintendo games, (which would have been extremely difficult), would have have been worth the increased costs in development. Once again, I don't consider the analysts predictions to be the most logical explanation of why Activision's ports of Call of Duty games didn't look as good as first or second-party Wii games.
>>316817904
>Patcher
this guy takes been wrong to a whole new level
>>316832063
People don't buy consoles for nintendo games. They buy consoles for fifa and cod. If they don't need to buy a new console for the latest fifa and cod they won't.
But if they do need a new console for the latest fifa and cod, they will.
You can't make it big with nintendo games. The mainstream do not care. And they have the most money.
>>316817904
Pachter stop shilling your shit here
>>316831782
>predicting shortages for both the Wii and PS3
>both the Wii and PS3
They can't even say the Wii will succeed without giving the PS3 equal footing. Of course, history showed that in the end PS3 didn't have shortages in that year while Wii did.
The problem with Nintendo is that they want children audience but instead of pandering to children they pander to their parents.
Pachter is literally always wrong on absolutely every single prediction. Why is anyone still listening to this senile old fuck?
>>316817904
>Patcher
Stopped reading right there. Move on, senpai.
>>316831152
>No version of the game was particularly very good. The Wii version wasn't actually gimped compared to the other versions (remember this was early PS3 days where nobody knew how to program Cell properly), it had some novel features.
The future Call of Duties were better received than CoD3, but the original Call of Duty 3 might have been better in some respects because they were mostly porting from the PS2 and Xbox version, so the Wii version would benefit from assets being prepared for three others platforms for profit maximization rather than just being prepared for one version. And of course, at that time, the Xbox and PS2 had much larger install bases.
>And by then the self-prophecy of the Wii "test" cycle had been fulfilled.
It wasn't a self-prophesy if they were making a legitimate point; that third-party games will never sell well on the Wii unless they were already adapted for casuals. There were plenty of quality third-party games on the Wii that sold terribly because the userbase wasn't particular interested in those sort of games. The analysts didn't affect anything.
>>316832223
>Second-party and first-party games were produced with better graphics at least since the N64.
And that's because they were the only "parties" since the N64 era to actually treat Nintendo consoles as main platforms and not just a porting pump and dump. Back then the lower sales (and cartridge manufacturing costs) of those Nintendo consoles at least provided a reasonable excuse.
Wii on the other hand was KILLING the PS3 in 2006 and 2007 and yet the PS3 got the royal treatment and Wii just got shat on.
Imagine if the Wii U got treated by developers like the PS4 and the PS4 got treated by developers like the Wii U, irrespective of their sales. That's what actually happened in 2007 with the Wii and PS3.
>le pachter is always wrong xDDD
Fuck memespouters. Do you faggots really think that Nintendo can sell their new console $350/$400?
>>316832203
>You said that it was a logical fallacy for me to claim that Pachter's public pronouncements would likely be consistent with his private advice. I don't think my claim is that unreasonable.
No, I said it was a logical fallacy that his public announcements actually influenced third-parties development plans in regards to the Wii. Activation probably made low-quality ports because they knew increase their investment in the development wouldn't result in an equal or greater return on their investment.
By the way, WW on Wii outsold MP3, so despite MP3 quality in graphics and gameplay, it sold so poorly because it wasn't that appealing to the vast majority of the Wii user base.
>>316817904
it will cost over $300. Because everything Pacter says becomes the complete opposite.
>>316832932
>n, so the Wii version would benefit from assets being prepared for three others platforms for profit maximization rather than just being prepared for one version
The PS2 continued to get ports of games for a very long time (not just Call of Duty 3) and the Wii didn't seem to benefit from extra attention due to this possible assets relationship.
>It wasn't a self-prophesy if they were making a legitimate point; that third-party games will never sell well on the Wii unless they were already adapted for casuals
There was a well known essay written on this subject called Birdman and the Casual Fallacy, but it's sadly disappeared off the internet now.
It was about publishers not actually understanding what "casual" meant. They often equated "casual" with "making dumber" instead of making more accessible. It means that they sabotaged their own games for no real reason at all except bad advice.
>>316832951
>Wii on the other hand was KILLING the PS3 in 2006 and 2007 and yet the PS3 got the royal treatment and Wii just got shat on
>Royal Treatment
This was because that PS3 could actually provide comparable experience in technical fidelity while the Wii was slightly less powerful than the Xbox 1. Therefore, the PS3 could received more multiplats that were almost identical to the 360 version. The PS3 naturally had a much higher software attachment rate and the userbase was much more attracted to the AA and AAA games that have been so extremely popular since 2006. PS3 owners not only bought more games, but they bought more games that the industry was selling.
>>316833350
Yes?
>>316833427
>By the way, WW on Wii outsold MP3, so despite MP3 quality in graphics and gameplay
I'm not surprised considering WW recieved much heavier advertising and is a far more mainstream game than the fairly niche Metroid series.
By the way, Metroid Prime 3 outsold Metroid Prime 2 for Gamecube (despite arguably being a weaker game), the supposed bastion of hardcore Nintendo game lovers.
>>316833616
>The PS2 continued to get ports of games for a very long time (not just Call of Duty 3) and the Wii didn't seem to benefit from extra attention due to this possible assets relationship.
This is because the quality of the ports also decreased as sales of PS2 games and consoles decreased.
>>316832368
The WiiU had CoD and Fifa.
It still mostly shit tanked.
You are fucking stupid and wrong.
Think they have that kind of fucking pull? Get acti and ea to put those two games on either the ps4 or xb1 and on one console only.
Not only will people riot but they would be lynched by investors and get their shit absolutely fucking slapped by people on the other cosoles who're going to be their new stand in. And the soccer fags in europe will burn down EAs office and they will lose their exclusivity licenses.
The WIiU only survives on nintendo games and unlike the ps4 and xb1, is profitable despite it having a smaller install base.
The 3DS as well.
Fucks sake, apple and google are so fucking hard up for their games that they've been floating NINTENDO GOES MOBILE on every goddamnd site on the planet when a new mobile comes out so they can get some heat from the nintendo name and lure in devs to make another round of shitty nintendo knock off games.
>>316831152
>And by then the self-prophecy of the Wii "test" cycle had been fulfilled.
Did you read what I said? I said they weren't listening to analysts, but instead listening to sales figures, which told them that Wii owners weren't interested in their games. If Metroid Prime 3 couldn't sell more than two million units, third-party shooters didn't have much of a chance.
>>316833837
>This was because that PS3 could actually provide comparable experience in technical fidelity
On the other-hand PS3 had Cell and all of its nightmarish difficulties, and there were no good tools at the time. Game developers pumped huge amounts of money getting those PS3 ports created. Making games for the Wii on the other hand was extremely easy by comparison, even if they had to be downported.
>The PS3 naturally had a much higher software attachment rate
"Much" higher is false. PS3's attach rate is exactly 1 software title more on average than Wii.
Your point is fairly irrelevant though as it is far too retrospective because the Wii's install base used to be way higher than the PS3 back in those days.
>but they bought more games that the industry was selling.
I don't disagree that there were some demographic differences, but Wii's higher install base appeared to compensate for that. Hence COD3's better sales overall.
If Nintendo comes up with an x86 high specs machine, they SHOULD AND MUST sell it at a high price
1 mid gen + current systems are shit + Gaben is here
2 snes days back
3 every consolefag thinking about going PC goes 60fps 4k Nintendo
4 Nintendo finally gets third party support
>>316834176
>but instead listening to sales figures, which told them that Wii owners weren't interested in their games.
Yes, that is exactly what the "test" cycle is.
They were listening to the sales figures of their preemptively sabotaged games and going "YES, WE KNEW THEY WOULDN'T SELL", despite their non-sabotaged games selling better on Wii than other platforms.
>>316817904
Fuck
>>316833837
Well, first of all, the game cube was more powerful then the xbox. This is known by everyone.
Secondly, the wii was more then twice as powerful as the gamecube.
Secondly, the wii was dumped because nintendo is fucking stupid and got cocky because of the wii's success and shat themselves in anger over the piracy.
That's it.
The wii could have gotten a trickle of well publicized nintendo games for years to come and still made money even with piracy being so rampant. Hell if they had just given it dvd playback parents would have just put that thing in little johnny and janes room along with whatever disney, spongebob, dr.mcstuffins dvds they could find.
>>316817904
I hate pachter, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I really think Nintendo needs to go back to cheap affordable consoles, cause wrote frankly without third party support its difficult to have a Nintendo console as your only console. Nintendo needs to go into making their console a secondary choice.
The 64, GB, GBC, gba, DS, were all cheap as shit, making it a easy purchase for anyone on the fence. The wiiu was outrageously priced when you could get aps3 or 360 for 100 bones less, and a library a hundred times the size.
The 3ds also did very poorly at its launch price, but after some software and a major price drop they really saved it.
If the nx is a handheld, it needs to be under 200, and a console should really be at under 250. Optimistically the handheld should be 150, and the console 200.
NX confirmed to have a 700$ price tag and no one will care
>>316834289
>Ps3 attach rate
>Higher then the wii
Oh anon, you card.
>>316834167
>The WiiU had CoD and Fifa.
And so did the PS3, 360, PS4, and XB1.
Which is why I am telling you that it would need to be a CoD and Fifa that can't run on current gen hardware.
>>316817904
I don't know who this chucklefuck is but if the NX will actually have better hardware than PS4 and Xbone it can't really cost less than those two, except if Nintendo takes a loss on every console sold, which they have never done.
What Nintendo has to do is do something only their console can do, while also getting 3rd parties porting games on their console
>>316834850
>I hate pachter, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
No. It's just a broken clock.
Pachter knows Nintendo fans are over sensitive and quick to reply in favor to Nintendo. That's why he keeps making clickbait statenents like this.
>>316833908
>not surprised considering WW recieved much heavier advertising and is a far more mainstream game than the fairly niche Metroid series.
It still sold much less on Wii than it did on the other consoles, selling half as much as the PS3 version and a fourth as much as the 360 version. It should have been apparent to third-party developers at this point that people will always prefer to buy the versions on the other consoles, they would settle for the gimped version, or they wouldn't buy it at all because the user based for the Wii was filled with fucking casuals.
>By the way, Metroid Prime 3 outsold Metroid Prime 2 for Gamecube (despite arguably being a weaker game), the supposed bastion of hardcore Nintendo game lovers.
Showing how little influence the quality of the product had on sales. If a game didn't have a large marketing campaign behind it, it wouldn't sell on the Wii, and sometimes it wouldn't sell, like in the case of BO which sold less than a tenth of the 360 version.
>people still expecting NX in 2016
>people getting PAID to say they expect the NX in 2016
>E3 2016
>Nintendo comes out swinging with the NX
>Gives Zelda U a november/october release date to push the Wii U through one more holiday season
>Release the NX in november/october of 2017
>>316817904
I agree
The damn thing is launching when the PS4 and Bone are in their prime.
If you want people to buy it you are going to have to offer more than power or games because no one will see the rush to buy it when they are still getting use out of the other two.
>>316834539
>They were listening to the sales figures of their preemptively sabotaged games and going "YES, WE KNEW THEY WOULDN'T SELL", despite their non-sabotaged games selling better on Wii than other platforms.
The games would always be sabotaged because the Wii was a technically inferior system and the user base didn't care for shooters. That's why Mario Party 8 neardly outsold all Call of Duty ports 3 combined. Wii owners just didn't want Call of Duty games regardless of the quality.
>>316835241
>It still sold much less on Wii than it did on the other consoles, selling half as much as the PS3 version and a fourth as much as the 360 version.
The Wii version sold more in proportion than how much of the original multiplayer mode hadn't been cut out from the game.
> It should have been apparent to third-party developers at this point that people will always prefer to buy the versions on the other consoles
No, it should have been apparent that gimping ports = bad sales.
>fucking casuals
Wow, I guess you've been arguing in good faith all along huh
>If a game didn't have a large marketing campaign behind it, it wouldn't sell on the Wii
If a game didn't have a large marketing campaign behind it it wouldn't sell well on any 7th generation console dude.
>>316817904
Unless the NX is gonna have 30 Nintendo made exclusives in it's first year I can't see how it's going to compete
Many loyalists will feel betrayed that they bought a system that didn't last the generation
Many casuals will have no interest because the other two will have most of it's kinks work out and have a large game library for the same price or less
That leaves the extreme loyalists and any nut job(like me) that buy new tech out the gate as a hobby.
If they don't play their cards right they might go the way of Sega at least with home systems.
>>316835497
>push the Wii U through one more holiday season
That's not going to happen. Take a look at the last Direct. There was literally nothing new announced for it. They'll probably release Zelda U right after e3 and they'll launch the NX and a Zelda U remaster this holiday season.
>>316835556
>The games would always be sabotaged because the Wii was a technically inferior system
Worse graphics doesn't equal sabotage. I'm fairly sure people knew that they were getting into when they bought the console. There is an art to getting aesthetically pleasing visuals out of a weaker system. But if developers didn't push the Wii hardware to the same extent that they pushed the 360/PS3 hardware (and they didn't), that left bad taste in people's mouths.
But I'm not talking about that. I mean specifically content that has been removed or radically altered, made inferior or just plain dumbed down.
The biggest crime was that they wouldn't even get the controls right, which was the selling point of the console.
>>316834818
>Well, first of all, the game cube was more powerful then the xbox. This is known by everyone.
Bullshit, no it wasn't.
GameCube
IBM PowerPC Gekko @ 486 MHz
162 MHz ATI "Flipper" GPU (9.4 GFLOPS)
43 MB total non-unified RAM
Xbox
Custom 733 MHz Intel Pentium III
GPU and system chipset: 233 MHz "NV2A" ASIC. 115 million vertices/second
64 MB DDR SDRAM at 200 MHz
>>316836291
>The biggest crime was that they wouldn't even get the controls right, which was the selling point of the console.
There was little motivation to do so because even first-party titles sold so poorly when compared to titles on the PS3 and 360, with the exception of casual titles.
>>316835756
>If a game didn't have a large marketing campaign behind it it wouldn't sell well on any 7th generation console dude.
Again, Mario Party 8 obviously had a much smaller marketing push yet sold much more than the Call of Duty titles only because it was casual.
>Wow, I guess you've been arguing in good faith all along huh
No personal remarks, please. They are irrelevant and don't establish any point.
>>316835137
No stupid.
Fuck cod and fifa. The people already have consoles to play those games.
Nintendo needs nintendo first party and unique third party and the third party that always does well on their systems.
Them playing catch up to sony and ms and slapping on a gimmick is how we got the fucking wiiu.
Fuck that. If they do that, it's over for them.
>>316835556
No, you retard.
Mario Party 8 outsold CoD across all platforms because the amount of people who want to play an all inclusive local co-op mario themed party game dwarfs the amount of people who even know what CoD is by an inconcievable amount.
More people want to play a four player mario party game on the most popular console on the planet at the time then cod.
Get it?
I honestly don't understand how you could leap to such a retarded conclusion.
PS That wii version of CoD outsold the PS3 version by a considerable amount.
I'll let you figure out the implications of that on your own. Here's a hint. Playing to the same handful of diehards is not going to net them any profit.
>>316836972
>The people already have consoles to play those games.
Then why did they purchase the PS4 even though they already had PS3s and 360s?
Because of CoD and FIFA.
>>316835756
>No, it should have been apparent that gimping ports = bad sales.
That wasn't the case with WW. Games that also sold well despite being of poor quality were Just Dance 2, Just Dance, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, and Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games. All of these games sold much better than these "gimped" titles despite being of much lower quality. The reason was clearly that the nature of the "gimped" third-party titles didn't appeal to the Wii userbase, regardless of quality.
>pachter
Topest kek
>>316836519
Anyway, the GC outperformed with actual games.
>>316818236
No, pachter is a clock that is just 6 hours off at all times
>>316835756
>Wow, I guess you've been arguing in good faith all along huh
I still don't know, what it this supposed to mean? Are you really so triggered by the term, "fucking casuals." I could have used "casual gamers." How would have have altered the content of my argument in the least? What was the relevance of your remark to the discussion? Are you implying that I have some kind of bias? Is that "arguing in good faith"?
>>316836732
>with the exception of casual titles.
Call of Duty is also a casual title. You don't sell tens of millions of copies without casuals buying it.
Except even casuals like their games properly ported. If they load up a Wii game and they see that the multiplayer mode is borderline non-existent they're not going to tell their casual friends to buy it.
>Again, Mario Party 8 obviously had a much smaller marketing push yet sold much more than the Call of Duty titles only because it was casual.
They're both casuals titles but don't directly compete with each other. One is a party game the other is a casual shooter. The market demands for both games are different so its difficult to compare.
If you want to make comparisons, compare games of similar genres. Better yet, multiplatform titles of the same game (while noting the differences in ports).
>>316817904
Under $250 imo.
>>316835756
>The Wii version sold more in proportion than how much of the original multiplayer mode hadn't been cut out from the game.
>proportion
That's a mathematical term. How do you know the lack of multiplayer mode bears any proportion to the lower sales? Do you mean by proportion of development costs to return on investment, or by proportion of quality of the game? Are you suggesting that the game's sales would have doubled if it had multiplayer mode? How do you know that?
>>316837319
>Games that also sold well despite being of poor quality were Just Dance 2, Just Dance, Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, and Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
These games genres had little to no market competition outside of the Wii console so its unsurprising that the console soaked it all up.
>>316835195
>>>316817904 (OP)
>I don't know who this chucklefuck is but if the NX will actually have better hardware than PS4 and Xbone it can't really cost less than those two, except if Nintendo takes a loss on every console sold, which they have never done.
Actually they did it with 3DS after the price cut and Wii U.
Ideally they should make a console slighty better than PS4 and ONE, but with less bottlenecks(cpu and memory bandwidth), easier to develop for, and sell it under $300.
>>316837648
>Call of Duty is also a casual title.
Not by Wii standards, it is. Casual titles would be Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Play, Wii Fit, etc.
>You don't sell tens of millions of copies without casuals buying it.
Well that's exactly what happened on the Wii.
>If they load up a Wii game and they see that the multiplayer mode is borderline non-existent t
This isn't a valid argument because the first-day sales on the Wii were also much lower than the 360 or PS3.
>>316824418
>£170
>>316817904
Been waiting for the prophet to say something.
This means that the NX will be over $300 and will be a success
sorry guys, Nintendo lives for another decade.
>>316837778
>How do you know the lack of multiplayer mode bears any proportion to the lower sales?
If you're asking me whether I'm omniscient the answer is no. I simply assert that people will want to buy a decent product, and Call of Duty that lacks or has degenerated multiplayer is not a decent product. People will either gravitate to decent ported versions or other shooters.
>>316838053
>Casual titles would be Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Play, Wii Fit, etc.
Those aren't shooters though. What's the "Wii" equivalent to the FPS? I reckon COD is the closest thing there is.
>>316838120
He said freedom dollars, not moose dollars, though.
>>316837648
>They're both casuals titles but don't directly compete with each other. One is a party game the other is a casual shooter. The market demands for both games are different so its difficult to compare.
I didn't say they were competing. I was giving that as an example to show that more important than marketing is having a game that naturally appeals to the userbase and won't have versions on other consoles that will certainly be vastly superior.
>The market demands for both games are different so its difficult to compare.
Not really. With the exception of Kinect games, casual games sold terribly on PS3 and 360, while with the exception of some first-party titles, hard-core games, (not for grandma), sold poorly compared with 360 and PS3 sales, which explains why third-parties focused almost all their resources on courting the PS3 and 360 audiences despite the Wii having a larger install base.
>>316838617
CoD sold better on the wii then the ps3 for a long while.
Problem isn't that the market wasn't there. Problem is that they stopped trying.
>>316837289
Marketing.
Those games are just an excuse to get the console. That's it.
Most of the impulsive children with more money then common sense have traded their 8th gen console in for both of the last gen consoles and a few stacks of games.
>>316817904
>$250 base price
>$50 expansion amiibos that serve as Ram and Hard-drive upgrades, maximum of 4
Heard it here first folks
>>316838007
>These games genres had little to no market competition outside of the Wii console so its unsurprising that the console soaked it all up.
They had plenty of competition. This like saying Call of Duty didn't have competition on the 360 and PS3, which is why they sold so well. There were plenty of casual games on the Wii vying for sales.
>>316838421
>Those aren't shooters though.
I was never only talking about shooters. I'm talking about hardcore games, (and I'm considering family fun games to be equivalent to casual which is how most people use the term).
>>316817904
Nintendo does not need to try to release a new system yet. The current generation hasn't gone on long enough and nobody will buy it. Wii U owners won't buy it out of upsetness, and other console owners won't necessarily buy it if they already don't give a shit about the Wii U.
>>316839316
>wiiu is dead
>3DS is dying
>does not need
>>316838946
>modular graphics upgrades
For the love of god they better not region lock it again.
>>316838249
>If you're asking me whether I'm omniscient the answer is no. I simply assert that people will want to buy a decent product, and Call of Duty that lacks or has degenerated multiplayer is not a decent product. People will either gravitate to decent ported versions or other shooters.
I think there was zero chance that no matter how optimized or feature packed BO was, it wouldn't have sold as much as the 360 or PS3 version. Using the final sales figures, the multiplayer component of the game was apparently 9/10 of it's actual value because that's how many more people bought it on the 360.
>>316836268
This exactly. They need to just play it safe and work on developing a console that can compete next generation.
>>316838834
>CoD sold better on the wii then the ps3 for a long while.
WW sold more than twice as much on the PS3, and BO sold more than seven times, and MW sold about 10 times. Obviously, MW sold much more. What "long while" are you talking about?
>Michael "always wrong" Pachter says the NX has to be less then $300
NX confirmed for over $300! Nintendo is finished!
>>316837648
>COD is a casual title
COD is a "hardcore" title. It sells to the same demographic of gamers who get the games based on marketing hype and name brand. Since 2007, it sells 20-30 million copies to the same teens and twenty somethings (not uncommon that they'll drop the series after a few years and new ones will latch on because of the same marketing).
It doesn't matter which system they get it on, though hardcore gamers also have a platform bias in which they'll flock to the most well marketed system (ie 360 last gen, PS4 this gen).
Multiplatform games have little relevance to the popularity of a system unless said multiplats have some degree of exclusivity or choice version. Playstation and PS2 thrived because it had the sports games, the RPGs of the late 90s and the GTAs of the early 00s. The one good-selling first party exclusive was the early Gran Turismo titles.
A similar phenomenon, most modern long-standing Nintendo titles only have the attachment of the hardcore. Zelda 1&2 sold huge on the NES (at the time 7+ million was big), but as the series went on and became more "quirky", the only people who still hang on are about one million hardcore fans. The one outlier was Twilight Princess with 4+ million sales as it appeared it was going to be a serious and challenging game once again.
When a game genuinely appeals to a wide audience, it will see tens of millions of sales and make gamers out of non-gamers.
>>316839830
He also said it'll fail at that price point, so Nintendo wins!
>>316828992
Except that the PS4 is selling gangbusters, and it runs on last gen hardware.
>>316827203
But that's wrong, Reflex was done by Treyarch as was every Nintendo Port.
>>316835756
>If a game didn't have a large marketing campaign behind it it wouldn't sell well on any 7th generation console dude.
My point was that marketing was more important than quality, and third-party developers knew that improving the quality of the game was unnecessary for the Wii beyond a certain point because almost all gamers who would be interested in those games would prefer the best version which will necessarily be on the 360 or PS3, (among consoles players, of course).
>>316839316
>Wii U owners won't buy it out of upsetness
Wii U owner here. No, I won't buy it cause it won't have games at all from the start.
>b-but you spent money on a Wii U!
I have enough money to buy 5 Wii U's a month. However, I am not a idiot, I won't be buying the NX until it has games, at least 10+ games, which I can't play anywhere else.
Another example of this is the New 3DS. If people already have a 3DS, why buy the New 3DS? Wasn't it supposed to be getting exclusive games BESIDES the Xenoblade port? Whatever happened to that? People shouldn't buy a console until it actually has games that they want to play on it, and not just for one game. Nuff said.
>>316840460
>But that's wrong, Reflex was done by Treyarch as was every Nintendo Port.
What's your point? Development was half-way into the game's production when the Wii launched and they probably wouldn't have considered porting it until months later.
>>316817904
they could price it at 999 put only mario, kirby, yoshi games on it and nintendrones will still eat it up.
Sony used to have this same power till they released the ps3.
Microsoft always wanted this power but they tried to pop their "lets rip off the customers" Cherry too soon.
>>316840132
>Stop saying casual like that. You're visualizing them like a finite resource that buys whatever is crapped out instead of various groups of people who will buy something if it's got the right hook.
For the Wii, that's exactly what happened. It was nothing but first-party games and casual garbage, most first-party games that were casual garbage.
>The very idea of a casual is fucking stupid.
I will call someone who only plays motion games with their families for half a hour a week a casual and you can't stop me.
>>316840831
Misread it, don't be a dick about it though.
>>316817904
Pachter?? PACHTER>??
Fuck with this old HACK
>fellow babies
>Pachter
Lemme remind you guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8R4BAQf7is
>>316841434
I wasn't trying to be a dick, I thought you might have been suggesting that Treyarch could have started porting the game in the middle of the game's production or before it was even developed and before the Wii was released.
>It's a NX thread
Despite this shit-flinging, Pachter is probably right. There's a possibility there will be a price-cut for either or both the Xbox One and the PS4, bringing them close or at $300. If the NX releases at or above this, it be compete directly with consoles that are not only priced similarly, but may be more powerful and will have three years worth of libraries, making the NX a very difficult choice for consumers. It might actually be worse than the Wii U because the next-gen system are already here, with content, and possibly more powerful.
>>316839897
>Zelda 1&2 sold huge on the NES (at the time 7+ million was big)
Profits are higher today because of increased sales, but the margins then must have been enormous.
>>316840785
>I have enough money to buy 5 Wii U's a month. However, I am not a idiot, I won't be buying the NX until it has games, at least 10+ games, which I can't play anywhere else. which I can't play anywhere else.
You're very sensible, anon.
